KLEEN - Takes the Bull by the horns! Taurus Nutrition's w/ WYKED & Beta TNP

[thebigt]

Yeah, my first contest diet was pretty darn restrictive. 6 meals a day of chicken, fish, protein, almonds, peanuts, grapefruit and blueberries some type of greens for 20 weeks... A few weeks there I allowed myself 1/2 cup of oats in the morning too. WooHoo! Nope I made my wife miserable. She is afraid of me doing another show. LOL However getting leaner is so much easier for me now. I wont be nervous because I have already been to one and know what to expect. So who knows...

Either way I will be more relaxed and that is the point. Even the diet there is no magic once you understand your body and how it handles food, you just adjust to what you see in the mirror or calipers.

lol-it wasn't until i was in my 40's before i had that kind of insight. now i realize that the world is not one size fits all.:amish:

 

[RickRock13]

Yeah, my first contest diet was pretty darn restrictive. 6 meals a day of chicken, fish, protein, almonds, peanuts, grapefruit and blueberries some type of greens for 20 weeks... A few weeks there I allowed myself 1/2 cup of oats in the morning too. WooHoo! Nope I made my wife miserable. She is afraid of me doing another show. LOL However getting leaner is so much easier for me now. I wont be nervous because I have already been to one and know what to expect. So who knows...

Either way I will be more relaxed and that is the point. Even the diet there is no magic once you understand your body and how it handles food, you just adjust to what you see in the mirror or calipers.

I couldnt handle a diet like that for 20 weeks, which is why I probably will never see a contest. That is dedication bro! But it you can get that lean on lean gains without being near that strict on your diet, then well maybe there is hope for me one day...:laugh:

 

[StackedCop]

Dear kleen,

Your logs are awesome! I just don't think I can hang with their amazingness..

Ps thanks for the PM keeping me posting on your results! As you know I've remained natural to this day but I am pretty sure i will be using tnp what's your pct for this gonna be (or direct me to the post / page this was discussed) I know I'm a rep and all but I have little knowledge on this topic.

Yours truly,

SC.

 

[MrKleen73]

Dear kleen,

Your logs are awesome! I just don't think I can hang with their amazingness..

Ps thanks for the PM keeping me posting on your results! As you know I've remained natural to this day but I am pretty sure i will be using tnp what's your pct for this gonna be (or direct me to the post / page this was discussed) I know I'm a rep and all but I have little knowledge on this topic.

Yours truly,

SC.

Thanks Staked! Will be bridging it to 1-Andro starting tomorrow which looks to be my last day on the progestin. I have really enjoyed it, LBM gains close to Epi , and sides equivalent of a test booster but with some minimal shut down which obviously you would get that from a test booster. I would run this compound 6-7 weeks if I were planning it from scratch. Now for my PCT afterwards I will be using PCT Revolution Black from Finaflex actually will be using a low dose during the run and then full doses once complete and into pct.

 

[MrKleen73]

I couldnt handle a diet like that for 20 weeks, which is why I probably will never see a contest. That is dedication bro! But it you can get that lean on lean gains without being near that strict on your diet, then well maybe there is hope for me one day...:laugh:

Well if you got down to 5-6% on LG you wouldn't need that much time on a real contest diet. I didn't think I could do it either but I set up all the motivation correctly. I paid the entry fee and registration for the federation and something else 20 weeks out. No refunds available. Promised myself that even if I didn't stick to my diet I was getting on that stage in posing trunks. So I could be an embarressment to myself or get up there in good condition. Those were the only two options I allowed myself. Made it a lot easier to stick with it. For me tossing almost $300 out there was a lot at once when not something I had been saving for. So it was a pretty big deal.

 

[Rosie Chee]

I couldnt handle a diet like that for 20 weeks, which is why I probably will never see a contest. That is dedication bro! But it you can get that lean on lean gains without being near that strict on your diet, then well maybe there is hope for me one day...:laugh:

Trust me when I say that I am competing (5 weeks away to be precise) and I am NOT following or doing a "contest diet". Far from it, continuing to eat normally, not depriving myself of anything, and having no trouble losing bodyfat, making the most progress now that I know what works for my body, which incidentally is an amalgamation I created that I discovered is very similar to Lean Gains. Besides, if you maintain leanness, then 20 weeks is certainly not needed, even if you WERE to diet for competition. If you want to compete in the future, you can certainly do it - don't let your "lack" of diet stop you; say "fcuk it" and do it as a challenge! It's only an issue if you make it, and no matter your nutritional weaknesses, they can be made up for - I love food, eat more than 99% of people I know, and I'm doing it ANYthing is possible of you want it enough make your OWN reality!

~Rosie~

 

[ScottyDoc]

Trust me when I say that I am competing (5 weeks away to be precise) and I am NOT following or doing a "contest diet". Far from it, continuing to eat normally, not depriving myself of anything, and having no trouble losing bodyfat, making the most progress now that I know what works for my body, which incidentally is an amalgamation I created that I discovered is very similar to Lean Gains. Besides, if you maintain leanness, then 20 weeks is certainly not needed, even if you WERE to diet for competition. If you want to compete in the future, you can certainly do it - don't let your "lack" of diet stop you; say "fcuk it" and do it as a challenge! It's only an issue if you make it, and no matter your nutritional weaknesses, they can be made up for - I love food, eat more than 99% of people I know, and I'm doing it ANYthing is possible of you want it enough make your OWN reality!

~Rosie~

Well said Rosie, I agree, I now just need to get with Chris and see if between the two of us we can come up with an amalgamation that works for me that doesn't kill me like a pre-contest diet does, that way I can maintain a lean body mass all year round whether I am bulking up or cutting down. Also, when going into a contest with plenty of time to prep and never letting yourself get above like 6-8% would be much, much easier than what most people do and I have done in the past!

 

[3clipseGT]

Great log bud im stoked to give this a go at some point myself!

 

[MrKleen73]

Trust me when I say that I am competing (5 weeks away to be precise) and I am NOT following or doing a "contest diet". Far from it, continuing to eat normally, not depriving myself of anything, and having no trouble losing bodyfat, making the most progress now that I know what works for my body, which incidentally is an amalgamation I created that I discovered is very similar to Lean Gains. Besides, if you maintain leanness, then 20 weeks is certainly not needed, even if you WERE to diet for competition. If you want to compete in the future, you can certainly do it - don't let your "lack" of diet stop you; say "fcuk it" and do it as a challenge! It's only an issue if you make it, and no matter your nutritional weaknesses, they can be made up for - I love food, eat more than 99% of people I know, and I'm doing it ANYthing is possible of you want it enough make your OWN reality!

~Rosie~

Exactly! Rosie is very correct. Honestly I could have done my prep in 14-16 weeks from where I was, heck probably even 12 but I would have lost some muscle mass too. Lean Gains has definitely changed the game for me though. Perhaps I should say that IF has changed the game since I am not following the 16/8 fast/feed ratio on burn days that is prescribed for Lean Gains.

Well said Rosie, I agree, I now just need to get with Chris and see if between the two of us we can come up with an amalgamation that works for me that doesn't kill me like a pre-contest diet does, that way I can maintain a lean body mass all year round whether I am bulking up or cutting down. Also, when going into a contest with plenty of time to prep and never letting yourself get above like 6-8% would be much, much easier than what most people do and I have done in the past!

I think once you hop one board you will see you won't need to tweak it too much at all Al. However we can easily come up with adjustments if you need them.

Great log bud im stoked to give this a go at some point myself!

Thanks and I definitely recommend it.

Tomorrow will be the last day of the run. I will go ahead and start the 1 -Andro then as well as take some pics in the morning, or in the morning on Saturday. Just depends on the time crunch tomorrow. Expect a final review with this weekend, tomorrow if possible. I will post the link to my new Finaflex 1-Andro log here as well.

 

[RickRock13]

Trust me when I say that I am competing (5 weeks away to be precise) and I am NOT following or doing a "contest diet". Far from it, continuing to eat normally, not depriving myself of anything, and having no trouble losing bodyfat, making the most progress now that I know what works for my body, which incidentally is an amalgamation I created that I discovered is very similar to Lean Gains. Besides, if you maintain leanness, then 20 weeks is certainly not needed, even if you WERE to diet for competition. If you want to compete in the future, you can certainly do it - don't let your "lack" of diet stop you; say "fcuk it" and do it as a challenge! It's only an issue if you make it, and no matter your nutritional weaknesses, they can be made up for - I love food, eat more than 99% of people I know, and I'm doing it ANYthing is possible of you want it enough make your OWN reality!

~Rosie~

Thank you for that! I used to think contest prep meant you had to give up all grains and carbs except veggies and nuts with a super clean diet. Now from what you said there, along with the success I have seen from Kleen, Dreamweaver, and others it tells me that you can get to those low bodyfat numbers without a real strict or "contest" diet. Competing is somethingg I want to do someday....even if just once for myself. I certainly feel like it is more attainable now than it was before as my eyes have been opened to this wonderful world of IF/Lean gains!

 

[Milas]

I'm still not sold that contest prep can be done without some sacrifices in diet. I just don't see my body reacting enough to anything but some rather severe changes like eliminating dairy and carbs other than oats, rice, and sweet potatoes (i.e., no gluten).

 

[DreamWeaver]

I'm still not sold that contest prep can be done without some sacrifices in diet. I just don't see my body reacting enough to anything but some rather severe changes like eliminating dairy and carbs other than oats, rice, and sweet potatoes (i.e., no gluten).

I could probably walk on stage right now and do very well, I am down about 2% bf since the pics I took 3 weeks ago... very close to 6% and I have just come off vacation.. I am now going to take it to another level though. I still don't know how low lean gains can go but I am thinking all the way now as I am so close. That being said you will have to make some small sacrifices but nowhere near as much with a real contest type diet...

 

[RickRock13]

I'm still not sold that contest prep can be done without some sacrifices in diet. I just don't see my body reacting enough to anything but some rather severe changes like eliminating dairy and carbs other than oats, rice, and sweet potatoes (i.e., no gluten).

Well I know what you are saying, but these guys are doing it and making it happen. I'm even having more success cutting on lean gains than a traditional cut. I'm leaner than I've ever been. I'm still around 10-10.5% but I've never been there before. I'm going to see how far it can take me. Hopefully into single digits soon. All that with eating pretty big and lenient Every other day!!

 

[oufinny]

Well I know what you are saying, but these guys are doing it and making it happen. I'm even having more success cutting on lean gains than a traditional cut. I'm leaner than I've ever been. I'm still around 10-10.5% but I've never been there before. I'm going to see how far it can take me. Hopefully into single digits soon. All that with eating pretty big and lenient Every other day!!

Yeah man, that is what I am doing as well. I am losing fat in my abs and legs, weight is going UP as I am on Andro right now and look better than I did after my DMZ/Epi cycle... there is something to lean gains. I don't eat perfect, don't count calories, and lean out. :banana:

 

[MrKleen73]

Final Review of Beta Progestin

Well first I want to thank Taurus Nutrition for allowing me to test this product. I will keep my assessment short and sweet. Well for me anyway.

If you are familiar with my reviews I do not assign numbers to characteristics. The supplement market is far to volatile and dynamic for numbers to hold up. I will basically go through some of that characteristics and list my thoughts on them.

Lean Body Mass - I have to admit that this really accelled here. Considering how the product felt, I would have never guessed I would gain 6.7 lbs of LBM in a month.

Mood - I noticed some very minor Alpha Male and aggression at first but then I leveled off. About halfway through Alpha Male was gone completely for me.

Strength - The strength on this was more in line with me getting stronger because my muscles were bigger, but not stronger just because of the androgen levels. I would say this is WAY more anabolic than it is Androgenic. Might even recommend running a DHEA product with it during longer runs to keep the alpha male feel and libido high.

Fat Burning - I would say this is nuetral. In other words no increase that was not explained by diet. When I ate big I held water and looked bloated when I didn't I cleaned up easily.

Libido - I had surges of libido enhancement but not any overall nonstop type libido. A little over halfway through I started to lose interest in sex. I could still be easily turned on if it came to it but wasn't sitting around horny like normal.

HPTA - Did not get tested before or after only giving anectdotal feedback. I would say that this caused minimal shut down. As I mentioned with libido it was not as high as normal, alpha male was gone, and my testicles were noticeably a little bit smaller starting somewhere around the 2.5 to 3 week mark. I think for a 1 month cycle a good over the counter PCT would probably suffice. However going anything over that might find you requiring a SERM of some sort.

Sides - Honestly there were not many other than the percieved slight shutdown and the known sides that go along with that. If blood pressure increased it was only slightly but never anything I noticed. Urine always had a slight yellow tint, not really any other sides to mention.

Overall Experience and Opinion

This was a great run. I started off not noticing to much going by feel and was a little worried that there may not be too much to this product. By the end of the second week I could see some definite improvement and was pleasantly surprised that I had already gained some LBM while losing fat. I enjoyed a few long weekends and higher calories after this point, my weight jumped up holding a lot of water and glycogen, but not adding any fat. I spent the last week cleaning that extra water and what not off to end up 203 coming up from 199, that is a total of 4 lbs on the scale but I also lost 2.8 lbs of fat. Leaving me with a total gain of 6.8 lbs LBM over the 4 weeks.

If I were to compare this product for mass ability I would put it with Epi, however as far as sides go I would put this in a mild category. I would definitely recommend that you commence production of this product or move to the next stage of testing for sure.

Stats:
5/12/11 - 199 9.6% LBM 179.85, Fat 19.15
5/28/11 - 200 8.4% LBM 183.28, Fat 16.72
6/10/11 - 203 8% LBM 186.7, Fat 16.3

 

[DreamWeaver]

Solid review and decent results for a milder product especially since you dropped body fat... which is quite visible and matches your measurements clearly..

 

[StackedCop]

Awesome final review! Thanks for taking the time to log for Taurus! You look great bro I can't wait to try this stuff.

 

[ScottyDoc]

Solid physique, much to work with Bro! Looking lean! Great Log!

 

[thundergod]

Awesome stuff, Kleenster. You look totally buff, dude.

I appreciate the honest review. You're not one of those over-zealous guys that will go all ga-ga and say stuff like, "This shit is the best thing since sliced bread.......or poon-tang pie!!" :laugh:

You mentioned that you feel this is more anabolic than androgenic in nature and your results prove just that. Mass gains with a little strength. But not so much on the aggression, libido or insane strength jumps.

I still find this somewhat odd in the fact that those old Tren prohormones like Tren-Xtreme, Methoxy-Tren, etc. were very androgenic. And they were progestins as well.

Something in the chemical makeup of this TNP is different somehow. But then again there's quite a difference between Nandrolone (Deca/NPP) than Trenbolone. I know this firsthand. Deca is more anabolic whereas Tren is just pure freakin' androgenic..........I love injectable Tren!!! :banana:

Thanks for the review, brother. :clap2:

 

[celc5]

Something in the chemical makeup of this TNP is different somehow.

Aside from differences in the drug, there's not always a 100% rule with how drugs bind to our receptors. An educated gentleman explained to me how Madol binds "loosely" to the androgen receptor. His take was that it "fits" in the receptor but sort of falls off for some. And that's were some experience androgenic effect and some just anabolic effect from that drug... just as an example.

Kleen,
well done brother :clap: Good discussion here

 

[Taurus Nut.]

Just because those other structures have some progestational activity (or a lot in the case of Tren) it's not the same structure and therefore different effects.


Everything you cited has very high androgenic activity as well as progestinational activity. Frankly, you can see that the most potent androgens are the ones with progestational activity.

Tren is androgenic because it doesn't 5a reduce at all and is already more androgenic than DHT. Deca is less so, because the 5a conversion DHN is only 75% as potent as DHT.

Awesome log!

 

[MrKleen73]

Solid review and decent results for a milder product especially since you dropped body fat... which is quite visible and matches your measurements clearly..

Thanks, I am pretty darned pleased myself.

Awesome final review! Thanks for taking the time to log for Taurus! You look great bro I can't wait to try this stuff.

This would be a PERFECT first run. No sides, so smooth, not a lot of aggression so you won't have to kill and smart mouth teens during a traffic stop.

Solid physique, much to work with Bro! Looking lean! Great Log!

Thanks Al!

Awesome stuff, Kleenster. You look totally buff, dude.

I appreciate the honest review. You're not one of those over-zealous guys that will go all ga-ga and say stuff like, "This shit is the best thing since sliced bread.......or poon-tang pie!!" :laugh:

You mentioned that you feel this is more anabolic than androgenic in nature and your results prove just that. Mass gains with a little strength. But not so much on the aggression, libido or insane strength jumps.

I still find this somewhat odd in the fact that those old Tren prohormones like Tren-Xtreme, Methoxy-Tren, etc. were very androgenic. And they were progestins as well.

Something in the chemical makeup of this TNP is different somehow. But then again there's quite a difference between Nandrolone (Deca/NPP) than Trenbolone. I know this firsthand. Deca is more anabolic whereas Tren is just pure freakin' androgenic..........I love injectable Tren!!! :banana:

Thanks for the review, brother. :clap2:

I have to admit that even though I was unsure about running any more DS this product here was definitely worth running and I would definitely run it again. However I might add in some 1-Andro or Dermacrine and go for 6-8 weeks instead. The DHEA would keep me androgenic and alpha throughout a longer run like that.

Aside from differences in the drug, there's not always a 100% rule with how drugs bind to our receptors. An educated gentleman explained to me how Madol binds "loosely" to the androgen receptor. His take was that it "fits" in the receptor but sort of falls off for some. And that's were some experience androgenic effect and some just anabolic effect from that drug... just as an example.

Kleen,
well done brother :clap: Good discussion here

Ah, I see... kind of like a 13mm rachet and a 1/2 inch nut. It will go in there, may even stay in there but it can slip out pretty easily too.

Just because those other structures have some progestational activity (or a lot in the case of Tren) it's not the same structure and therefore different effects.


Everything you cited has very high androgenic activity as well as progestinational activity. Frankly, you can see that the most potent androgens are the ones with progestational activity.

Tren is androgenic because it doesn't 5a reduce at all and is already more androgenic than DHT. Deca is less so, because the 5a conversion DHN is only 75% as potent as DHT.

Awesome log!

Thanks! I am glad you enjoyed the log. I REALLY did enjoy this run. I was more impressed with it than I thought I was going to be at first. You really have a winner here.

 

[MrKleen73]

New Log!

Here is the link to my new log. Come on everyone let's see how much farther I can take this recomp using the Intermittent Fasting and FINAFLEX 1-ANDRO.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/177104-kleen-gets-redefine.html

 

[oufinny]

Chris, great log as always and man you are looking RIPPED!!!!!

 

[Milas]

Great review of the progestin. I'm interested in seeing it when it comes out, and also interested in the mention of yet another progestin as well...

Now on to 1-Andro, you're a best!

 

[Rosie Chee]

Awesome final review! Thanks for taking the time to log for Taurus!

^^^Yes, thank you, Chris Solid and comprehensive log and review as usual - always learn from you, so keep doing what you're doing!

~Rosie~

 

[MrKleen73]

^^^Yes, thank you, Chris Solid and comprehensive log and review as usual - always learn from you, so keep doing what you're doing!

~Rosie~

Thanks, I can't wait to see this bad boy come out. I want to try a 7 week run with some type of DHEA or DHT supp and see what it can really do with some time given to it.

 

[Rosie Chee]

Thank you for that! I used to think contest prep meant you had to give up all grains and carbs except veggies and nuts with a super clean diet. Now from what you said there, along with the success I have seen from Kleen, Dreamweaver, and others it tells me that you can get to those low bodyfat numbers without a real strict or "contest" diet. Competing is somethingg I want to do someday....even if just once for myself. I certainly feel like it is more attainable now than it was before as my eyes have been opened to this wonderful world of IF/Lean gains!

No worries Most do it, but it's not necessary, IMO. Just not everyone does things optimally or is willing to step outside the box, but will just do what is "accepted" and "should" be done - I've never been one to follow the crowd and I do what works for ME, no matter how UNconventional and despite the criticism I receive because of it. I'm ~8.5% bodyfat right now, and usually maintain 8-10% bodyfat all the time, and I do NOT "'diet" at all, period - Sean will confirm this if you don't believe it, LOL.

I'm still not sold that contest prep can be done without some sacrifices in diet. I just don't see my body reacting enough to anything but some rather severe changes like eliminating dairy and carbs other than oats, rice, and sweet potatoes (i.e., no gluten).

That's your opinion and I respect that. I know that many others share this and I am constantly told that I need to be doing what everyone else is to get lean, etc. - I'm going to be the example that such an approach is NOT required to get into competition shape though, with no ridiculously low calories or carbohydrate intake for me, nor excessive or double sessions of cardio or training! Not everyone can do it - you just have to know your body and what you can and cannot get away with. I am lucky that it is my TRAINING that predominantly determines how my body looks and not my nutrition - the majority is the OPPOSITE. In the end, you work with what you are given and can do. It's always an experiment to find the most optimal and effective way to get your body into the condition you desire.

~Rosie~

 

[Milas]

Completely agree Rosie, gotta find what works for you. It's great if you find a way to do it without all the sacrifice. I'll keep trying tweaks to find what works best for me.

 

[ScottyDoc]

Completely agree Rosie, gotta find what works for you. It's great if you find a way to do it without all the sacrifice. I'll keep trying tweaks to find what works best for me.

I third this... it is all about what works for you, everyone is different and UNfortunately, we can't all do it as easily as Rosie (genetically blessed) or should I say blessed with a high metabolism! But, at the same time, I'm a firm believer that there are more than one way to do things and more than one approach can work for multiple people, so the second part of learning your body and what works best for you is also finding something you can live with and stay consistent with as well! Which I can be perfectly honest when I say, I can rip up, not easy, but I can do it and have proven it time and time again, but can never hold it, because of how extreme it is! With this being said, I'm very hopeful my next time around that Chris - MrKleen will help me figure out a good Lean Gains meal plan for me that allows me to maintain 6-8% all year round once I get there and that way these crazy/extreme transformations become unnecessary!

 

[Rosie Chee]

I third this... it is all about what works for you, everyone is different and UNfortunately, we can't all do it as easily as Rosie (genetically blessed) or should I say blessed with a high metabolism! But, at the same time, I'm a firm believer that there are more than one way to do things and more than one approach can work for multiple people, so the second part of learning your body and what works best for you is also finding something you can live with and stay consistent with as well! Which I can be perfectly honest when I say, I can rip up, not easy, but I can do it and have proven it time and time again, but can never hold it, because of how extreme it is! With this being said, I'm very hopeful my next time around that Chris - MrKleen will help me figure out a good Lean Gains meal plan for me that allows me to maintain 6-8% all year round once I get there and that way these crazy/extreme transformations become unnecessary!

Given my hereditary blood disorder and other physiological issues that are WEAKNESSES more than anything and something that I have had to overcome, not to mention my YEARS of training, I'd say it was HARD WORK AND DEDICATION instead of genetics (not that that doesn't play a minor role) and a high metabolism that has gotten me to where I am today! Too many people make the mistake of assuming things just because of how something appears to be.

If you want to MAINTAIN your fitness or leanness, then yes, whatever you can be CONSISTENT with is the best option over what works but you cannot maintain. After all, it needs to be a LIFESTYLE and not a "quick fix".

~Rosie~

 

[ScottyDoc]

Given my hereditary blood disorder and other physiological issues that are WEAKNESSES more than anything and something that I have had to overcome, not to mention my YEARS of training, I'd say it was HARD WORK AND DEDICATION instead of genetics (not that that doesn't play a minor role) and a high metabolism that has gotten me to where I am today! Too many people make the mistake of assuming things just because of how something appears to be.

If you want to MAINTAIN your fitness or leanness, then yes, whatever you can be CONSISTENT with is the best option over what works but you cannot maintain. After all, it needs to be a LIFESTYLE and not a "quick fix".

~Rosie~

My bad if I worded it that way, I mean that high metabolism does work in your favor as far as staying lean all year long, but I was in no way trying to take away any of your hard work and efforts, not at all! You can't get to where you are without extremely hard work and I know all too often someone will take one look at you and say in a hate-n kind-a way, "Oh, well she was born that way!" So I wasn't trying to be one of those, just used you as an example to prove my point that different things work for different people and that you have to find what works best for you!

No Hate-n here... :07:

 

[thebigt]

Well first I want to thank Taurus Nutrition for allowing me to test this product. I will keep my assessment short and sweet. Well for me anyway.

If you are familiar with my reviews I do not assign numbers to characteristics. The supplement market is far to volatile and dynamic for numbers to hold up. I will basically go through some of that characteristics and list my thoughts on them.

Lean Body Mass - I have to admit that this really accelled here. Considering how the product felt, I would have never guessed I would gain 6.7 lbs of LBM in a month.

Mood - I noticed some very minor Alpha Male and aggression at first but then I leveled off. About halfway through Alpha Male was gone completely for me.

Strength - The strength on this was more in line with me getting stronger because my muscles were bigger, but not stronger just because of the androgen levels. I would say this is WAY more anabolic than it is Androgenic. Might even recommend running a DHEA product with it during longer runs to keep the alpha male feel and libido high.

Fat Burning - I would say this is nuetral. In other words no increase that was not explained by diet. When I ate big I held water and looked bloated when I didn't I cleaned up easily.

Libido - I had surges of libido enhancement but not any overall nonstop type libido. A little over halfway through I started to lose interest in sex. I could still be easily turned on if it came to it but wasn't sitting around horny like normal.

HPTA - Did not get tested before or after only giving anectdotal feedback. I would say that this caused minimal shut down. As I mentioned with libido it was not as high as normal, alpha male was gone, and my testicles were noticeably a little bit smaller starting somewhere around the 2.5 to 3 week mark. I think for a 1 month cycle a good over the counter PCT would probably suffice. However going anything over that might find you requiring a SERM of some sort.

Sides - Honestly there were not many other than the percieved slight shutdown and the known sides that go along with that. If blood pressure increased it was only slightly but never anything I noticed. Urine always had a slight yellow tint, not really any other sides to mention.

Overall Experience and Opinion

This was a great run. I started off not noticing to much going by feel and was a little worried that there may not be too much to this product. By the end of the second week I could see some definite improvement and was pleasantly surprised that I had already gained some LBM while losing fat. I enjoyed a few long weekends and higher calories after this point, my weight jumped up holding a lot of water and glycogen, but not adding any fat. I spent the last week cleaning that extra water and what not off to end up 203 coming up from 199, that is a total of 4 lbs on the scale but I also lost 2.8 lbs of fat. Leaving me with a total gain of 6.8 lbs LBM over the 4 weeks.

If I were to compare this product for mass ability I would put it with Epi, however as far as sides go I would put this in a mild category. I would definitely recommend that you commence production of this product or move to the next stage of testing for sure.

Stats:
5/12/11 - 199 9.6% LBM 179.85, Fat 19.15
5/28/11 - 200 8.4% LBM 183.28, Fat 16.72
6/10/11 - 203 8% LBM 186.7, Fat 16.3

View attachment 38522

sorry, been out of the loop for a few days.....great log/great review/great results....great all around!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Rosie Chee]

My bad if I worded it that way, I mean that high metabolism does work in your favor as far as staying lean all year long, but I was in no way trying to take away any of your hard work and efforts, not at all! You can't get to where you are without extremely hard work and I know all too often someone will take one look at you and say in a hate-n kind-a way, "Oh, well she was born that way!" So I wasn't trying to be one of those, just used you as an example to prove my point that different things work for different people and that you have to find what works best for you!

No Hate-n here... :07:

No worries, Al - thanks for clarifying And yes, I hate when someone makes assumptions just by looking at you - there's nothing more wrong than assumptions and impressions!

~Rosie~

 

[celc5]

Dude you totally hit the nail on the head with talking about the tight feeling. In my last post, I ALMOST just described an external rotator stretch for you (for the infraspinatus).

First, remember that you do NOT stretch external rotators by externally rotating. You stretch them by internally rotating.

http://www.teachpe.com/images/stretching/rotatorcuf2.jpg

http://bp0.blogger.com/_6TD5zTXP17w/RoqEZK1QGxI/AAAAAAAAAAk/Nbf9ZrRMaXg/s320/Picture+1.png

These pics give you an idea of the position. One thing that I see sort of wrong about them is that the elbow is too "high." I'd have my arm up to about 60 or 70 degrees, rather than have my elbow clear up to 90 like in the pics.

You can also roll your body just slightly toward the arm you're gonna stretch, but not all the way over onto your side.

Let your hand ease down as far as it can go in the direction like the pics show. Then once your hand stops, apply overpressure with your opposite index finger. Seriously, no more than like 5 lbs of overpressure force. Just enough to feel an easy stretch. Hold it about 15-30 seconds, repeat 2-3 times... probably after you did your cuff warm up exercises with the now DECIDEDLY LIGHTER plates

 

[MrKleen73]

Thanks Celc! I am all over that! If that corrects the issue man it will be so great! It is the only thing making me slow down my progress is babying that spot so it doesn't get injured.

 

[Craigmatthew]

Amazing transformation man and a gain for 6lbs and a decrease in body fat. Sounds good to me.
I have always enjoyed epi, so having you compare this to Epi has my interest peaking

 

[punthra]

Great review man!

 

[morry]

Awesome info!!! Thanks Chris

 

[windwords7]

Incredible! Fantastic log!

 

[MrKleen73]

Awesome info!!! Thanks Chris

Thanks Morry!

Incredible! Fantastic log!

Thank you Sir and I appreciated the opportunity to be one of the first to run the product. If you all put it out and have a good deal on it make sure I find out. I have a plan for running 2 bottles of this. This is one of the few PH's that I think I would run again without ANY hesitation. I really truly enjoyed it. Like I said a two bottle run mixed with some DHEA product starting about week 2 and this would be the perfect feel good run.

 

[JudoJosh]

Fantastic log and review Chris!

Thank you Sir and I appreciated the opportunity to be one of the first to run the product. If you all put it out and have a good deal on it make sure I find out. I have a plan for running 2 bottles of this. This is one of the few PH's that I think I would run again without ANY hesitation. I really truly enjoyed it. Like I said a two bottle run mixed with some DHEA product starting about week 2 and this would be the perfect feel good run.

Rumor has it Eric has a DHEA product in the works

 

[mich29]

reading through another log of yours and as expected great info and a very solid log setup.nice review as well though I had no doubt TN would deliver here.

 

[AZMIDLYF]

Fantastic log and review Chris!



Rumor has it Eric has a DHEA product in the works

This I like!

 

[JudoJosh]

This I like!

Ssshhhh it's a secret

 

[thebigt]

Ssshhhh it's a secret

you aint kidding, lol.

 

[JudoJosh]

you aint kidding, lol.

:firedevil:

 

[RickRock13]

Is Mr Kleen too busy getting swoll to update!!

 

[ScottyDoc]

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/general-chat/177598-happy-fathers-day.html#post2910212