KLEEN - Takes the Bull by the horns! Taurus Nutrition's w/ WYKED & Beta TNP

[MrKleen73]

Good to see numbers are increasing. how is the shoulder feeling?

I still would not oush it super intense on the last few reps since shoulder may be still adjusting.

do you see yourself being able to do heavier weights like up another 20 lbs with about the same reps, with no pain, in a couple months?

I feel very confident in my shoulder. I don't have any pain from any of my pressing at all. I can still feel that some of my rotator cuff muscles are reconditioning somewhat on the pull movements, but not in any bad way. They are just the only things still getting sore at all. Everything else is recovering more quickly. Definitely muscular though, although close to the shoulder joint it is not in the shoulder and is identical on the other side. Probably has more to do with the L-Flies gradually reconditioning them.

I definitely see myself using another 20 lbs or so in the next 2 months or so. I am doing reps a little slower now so it will be interesting to see how long it takes to get to 12 reps at 225 with this tempo. That is 30 lbs up but not something I feel is out of reach by September or so...

Chris...I'm sure I missed it, but where have your cals been roughly through this recomp on cycle? I'm taking notes for my run and trying to get a rough guess of where I need to put mine. I was thinking of doing something like 3500-4k on training days and around 2200-2500 on cardio days but I'm a little unsure

Well my cals have been in a lot of places. However I would say a good bit of them have been spent in the 1500 and 2800-3200 range. What I have learned is that honestly you need to eat specifically for your goal on that day. I have just separated them now into Burn and Build days. A burn day is a cardio or a rest day and on those days I intentionally extend my fast. If I don't get too hungry I won't eat anything until dinner. Also not trying to bust any supplement companie bubbles but I have not been taking BCAA's at all on these days. I am only taking them pre workout and post workout right now. Anyway on a burn day I don't really have a minimum set of calories. Just a maximum. I wont go over 1800, but if I hold out all day then have 100 grams of protein 50 grams of carbs and 20 grams of fat then well I ate 780 calories that day. All I have done is increase my caloric deficit and burn more fat since no catabolism takes place there is no muscle loss on that day.

My Build days are estimated at 2800-3200 sometimes up to 3500 but never really over that. Since no loss of muscle occurs on the burn day I don't have to make up for calories from that as a matter of fact I don't want too. I want to keep that deficit as part of the weeks deficit and simply eat enough today for me to have anabolism and build new muscle on top of the new muscle I built on my last build day.

Between the alternation of these two days and philosophies I burn more fat on the burn days and build exactly the same amount of muscle on the build days. Now if I did take my normal 8 grams of aminos on the burn days I may be able to gain a little more muscle mass but I haven't had the funds to pick up any recently.

very nice results!!! you guys logging this have really sold me on it.


i agree, i would like to see what 2 bottles can do also!!!:amish:

Oh yeah this stuff is legit and it will be legit even if in pill form because honestly I swallow quite a bit of grit even after holding it in my mouth for 2 minutes so I doubt there will be too much difference due delivery method.

 

[thebigt]

I feel very confident in my shoulder. I don't have any pain from any of my pressing at all. I can still feel that some of my rotator cuff muscles are reconditioning somewhat on the pull movements, but not in any bad way. They are just the only things still getting sore at all. Everything else is recovering more quickly. Definitely muscular though, although close to the shoulder joint it is not in the shoulder and is identical on the other side. Probably has more to do with the L-Flies gradually reconditioning them.

I definitely see myself using another 20 lbs or so in the next 2 months or so. I am doing reps a little slower now so it will be interesting to see how long it takes to get to 12 reps at 225 with this tempo. That is 30 lbs up but not something I feel is out of reach by September or so...


Well my cals have been in a lot of places. However I would say a good bit of them have been spent in the 1500 and 2800-3200 range. What I have learned is that honestly you need to eat specifically for your goal on that day. I have just separated them now into Burn and Build days. A burn day is a cardio or a rest day and on those days I intentionally extend my fast. If I don't get too hungry I won't eat anything until dinner. Also not trying to bust any supplement companie bubbles but I have not been taking BCAA's at all on these days. I am only taking them pre workout and post workout right now. Anyway on a burn day I don't really have a minimum set of calories. Just a maximum. I wont go over 1800, but if I hold out all day then have 100 grams of protein 50 grams of carbs and 20 grams of fat then well I ate 780 calories that day. All I have done is increase my caloric deficit and burn more fat since no catabolism takes place there is no muscle loss on that day.

My Build days are estimated at 2800-3200 sometimes up to 3500 but never really over that. Since no loss of muscle occurs on the burn day I don't have to make up for calories from that as a matter of fact I don't want too. I want to keep that deficit as part of the weeks deficit and simply eat enough today for me to have anabolism and build new muscle on top of the new muscle I built on my last build day.

Between the alternation of these two days and philosophies I burn more fat on the burn days and build exactly the same amount of muscle on the build days. Now if I did take my normal 8 grams of aminos on the burn days I may be able to gain a little more muscle mass but I haven't had the funds to pick up any recently.



Oh yeah this stuff is legit and it will be legit even if in pill form because honestly I swallow quite a bit of grit even after holding it in my mouth for 2 minutes so I doubt there will be too much difference due delivery method.

who knows maybe even a sublingual pill?

 

[RickRock13]

Thanks for all the info Chris. It still amazes me how well this has done for you. Its done great for me as well, but I'm not getting the recompense effect you are and more of a cut instead. Its hard to believe also that there is zero catabolism going on during the burn days that you break your fast so late. I've been afraid to break my fast any later than a couple hours late, but it has been successful for you so I may give it a shot.

 

[stxnas]

In for some experimentation!

 

[ZamaMan]

Your killing it Kleen . I may have to consult with you about my soon recompense or cut

 

[MrKleen73]

who knows maybe even a sublingual pill?

Well if it is found to be more effective as a pill then just a pill. Otherwise the grit isn't anything that makes the sublingual delivery an issue the taste is still rather pleasant as it is in the beta.

Thanks for all the info Chris. It still amazes me how well this has done for you. Its done great for me as well, but I'm not getting the recompense effect you are and more of a cut instead. Its hard to believe also that there is zero catabolism going on during the burn days that you break your fast so late. I've been afraid to break my fast any later than a couple hours late, but it has been successful for you so I may give it a shot.

Definitely then eat about an extra 500 calories on the build day then what you had planned.

In for some experimentation!

Glad your here man!

Your killing it Kleen . I may have to consult with you about my soon recompense or cut

Definitely although I am not doing anything magic just kind of putting things I have learned between lean gains and studying the ADF intermittent fasting protocals. Kind of cycle my calories on burn days between 1000 and 1800 calories basically just one big meal or two pretty big meals. I just extend the fast longer on the burn days to burn more fat. Since doing this I may start eating earlier on Build days too.

I imagine over time I will gradually just be doing ADF as it is starting to feel natural to want to just wait for dinner and have a big meal. Now on ADF you have about 350 cals worth of protein for dinner on the fast day. I think instead I will continue to have a very large dinner or a Warrior diet like 4 hour eating window from about 4:00 to 8:00. Something like that.

Oh yeah so today I weighed myself fasted 205. Now admittedly since I only had 2 burn days this week I am still holding onto some of the water from the long weekend, but not much of it. I think I may have added a pound or 2 of lbm in all that eating. Abs are looking pretty good today and after a relatively tame weekend as far as eating goes I think I will be looking pretty lean and around 202 when this is over. Not sure if body fat is lower right now or not but weighing in at 205 with decent abs is pretty impressive. We will see how much muscle and fat is there on the final day. No peeking before then but I should be leaner than the last pics and heavier...

I will update my lift after I finish doing my dead lifts here in a few hours.

 

[thebigt]

can't believe i haven't asked this before-are you chugging it straight down or holding it for a minute or 2?

 

[MrKleen73]

Lower Body 6-4-11 205 lbs!

Okay today was lower body and I broke it into two different workouts as normal. I had a good but challenging day but weight has increased quickly and now I am pushing the envelope on my max for the rep range so as I go forward I expect most increases to come with a fight. The increases are down to 5 lbs on deads and 10 on leg press. Maybe 5 from here on out. I want to extend the amount of time I progress in weight as long as possible even if very small increases.

Okay so todays workout was good and challenging too. I like it that way though.

Leg Press 6p, 12p, 16p +20, 16p +20
Calve Donkey Press 250x15, 310x15 these burned a bit.
Roman Chair Hangs 3 1 minute hangs

Trap Bar Deads - 185x12, 225x5, 275x5, 330x20 - Whew that was some serious work. Happy with the 5 lb increase was hard and once again I did it without any wraps just me and some rosin. Man I really love these things they make me go so much deeper with my legs and center the weight more when lifting than traditional deads. My legs have grown a good bit since doing this along with the leg press. Very happy so far and will continue trying to reach that goal of 405x20 think how much solid mass I can gain during that quest. :jaw:

can't believe i haven't asked this before-are you chugging it straight down or holding it for a minute or 2?

You haven't asked because i answered earlier in the log but heck we are several pages in at this point I am luycky I remember it. LOL I hold it for about 2 minutes most of the time. I like to get a lot of saliva and progestin built up then swish it around to get all the mucus membrane coated before swallowing it.

 

[thebigt]

Okay today was lower body and I broke it into two different workouts as normal. I had a good but challenging day but weight has increased quickly and now I am pushing the envelope on my max for the rep range so as I go forward I expect most increases to come with a fight. The increases are down to 5 lbs on deads and 10 on leg press. Maybe 5 from here on out. I want to extend the amount of time I progress in weight as long as possible even if very small increases.

Okay so todays workout was good and challenging too. I like it that way though.

Leg Press 6p, 12p, 16p +20, 16p +20
Calve Donkey Press 250x15, 310x15 these burned a bit.
Roman Chair Hangs 3 1 minute hangs

Trap Bar Deads - 185x12, 225x5, 275x5, 330x20 - Whew that was some serious work. Happy with the 5 lb increase was hard and once again I did it without any wraps just me and some rosin. Man I really love these things they make me go so much deeper with my legs and center the weight more when lifting than traditional deads. My legs have grown a good bit since doing this along with the leg press. Very happy so far and will continue trying to reach that goal of 405x20 think how much solid mass I can gain during that quest. :jaw:



You haven't asked because i answered earlier in the log but heck we are several pages in at this point I am luycky I remember it. LOL I hold it for about 2 minutes most of the time. I like to get a lot of saliva and progestin built up then swish it around to get all the mucus membrane coated before swallowing it.

lol-you have to excuse my short term memory loss....but that is exactly what i whould do-should have known an experienced vet like you would be onto that!!!!:cheers:

 

[MrKleen73]

No problem, I mentioned that way back in the beginning. Lots of stuff to remember and or forget gone on in here since then.

I am eating a little out of character today. I already broke fast with our Sunday Pancake Brunch we had it early due to going to a graduation ceremony here shortly. I will not eat again for several hours then will be at a barbecue after the ceremony. Probably around 4PM. I will probably limit myself to mostly meat at the bbq, but I am not making any promises. LOL Yesterday wasn't an overboard day high cals yes but not overboard more inline with a high cal day during the week. So not too worried about a little deviance from the plan today. A nice clean week this week and I should be relatively dry and full by the end of the week. Definitely holding onto some new mass. I really seem to have blown up this week. My legs feel big, and shoulders do too. Could be a combination of things but so far things are looking good for a great run and some nice after pics.

 

[RickRock13]

As usual, everything is looking great in here Kleen. That BBQ you are talking about is making me hungry. That sounds damn good right now!! :food:

 

[MrKleen73]

As usual, everything is looking great in here Kleen. That BBQ you are talking about is making me hungry. That sounds damn good right now!! :food:

Yeah skipped the bbq just didn't fell like being sociable on that level. Just gonna have a decent size dinner and relax this afternoon.

 

[enhanced]

My legs feel big, and shoulders do too.

I know exactly what you're talking about here. I love that "on/full" feeling all day. It makes me want to stop what I'm doing & eat some brown rice or a sweet potato!! :head:

as for holding it under the tongue, I've been doing the same thing.. About 1-2 minutes & then swishing it around a good bit. The grit that's left, I usually just let that dissolve as much as possible & then wash it all down w/ a good 20oz of water.

Great log Kleen!!

 

[ScottyDoc]

Today's TRIVIA Question for FINAFLEX will be posted at 3:00pm Eastern Standard time!

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/company-promotions/168461-redefine-nutriton-weightlifting-36.html#post2896531

 

[wontstop985]

Late, but in. Progress looks good!

 

[MrKleen73]

Took the day off to spend time with my son. We went and watched the new XMen movie. I think I may have enjoyed it more than all of the others to be honest. Still large and in charge. The size is not shaking off. I am going to work to clean up more before this ends and see exactly how much muscle is there.

 

[RickRock13]

Took the day off to spend time with my son. We went and watched the new XMen movie. I think I may have enjoyed it more than all of the others to be honest. Still large and in charge. The size is not shaking off. I am going to work to clean up more before this ends and see exactly how much muscle is there.

Awesome that you are looking that big and a couple good burn days and you should be looking even more incredible! I love how this diet allows that. You can gorge a couple days on a weekend or whatever, and then clean everything up with a couple good burn days. Good stuff!!

 

[thebigt]

Took the day off to spend time with my son. We went and watched the new XMen movie. I think I may have enjoyed it more than all of the others to be honest. Still large and in charge. The size is not shaking off. I am going to work to clean up more before this ends and see exactly how much muscle is there.

curious to see how that works out for you.

 

[MrKleen73]

I haven't been on the scale this week yet but I am sure I am still at the minimum 205 right now. Just holding the glycogen a lot more. Says something about the glycogen retention on this. Adjust my water and my final shots should be impressive.

 

[celc5]

who knows maybe even a sublingual pill?

I actually like that idea. I feel like it's tough to tell when the enzymes in the mouth start to break things down for absorption with the liquid. Either way, I hold it in there about 1-2 minutes before swallowing.

 

[John Smeton]

Took the day off to spend time with my son. We went and watched the new XMen movie. I think I may have enjoyed it more than all of the others to be honest. Still large and in charge. The size is not shaking off. I am going to work to clean up more before this ends and see exactly how much muscle is there.

Yeah them things away from the gym that we really enjoy actually help us in the gym even though they are not directly related. Scream 4 is a pretty good horror. Dairy of a wimpy kid part2 in threatres is good if hes into that kind of stuff. Its important to see part one first.

Very nice to hear about the progress of your should've and the confidence level behind it. I think the mental confidence is a big contributor in it fully healed and even surpassing where you were before this time really preventing injury with meticulous form. I recently heard Ronnie Coleman talk about not locking out and how it helped his joints and thought of you. Wed had some good discussions and hope we can still keep learning more and more to help each and every one of us.

 

[MrKleen73]

6-7-11 Upper Body and I am ONE BIG FUGGER!!!!!

Okay not going to go too into my workout. I progressed on everything I did except for the Chin Grip Pull Downs. That was by choice.

I am just gonna list the old weight and new weight on the lifts since the work sets are what counts here.

Bench - Last Workout 185, & 190, this workout 195, 195 - I could have gone up to 205 here on the first set without much problem at all. As a matter of fact I talked myself out of going up again on the second set. Need to keep the progress inline with my recovery ability in the shoulder.

Chin Grip Pull Downs - Last time 160, 160, was extremely hard strained one of the muscles in the rear of my shoulder a tiny bit. I could still feel it hadn't fully recovered so I went with 135x20, 135x20 just nice contraction, get some blood in there and work the muscle so next time it is good and ready to go.

Military Press - Last time 110, 115x10, this time 115x12, 115x10 up 5 on first work set, and then hit same reps for second.

EZ Curl - last time 95x11 with a cheat for 12, this time 95x12 and could have gotten 13 but decided to hold out on it.

Dips - last time BW=205+60, this time BW=211x70, it was just easier to put a 45 and 25 on there than it would have been to put a 45 and 2 10s so I increased it a bit for convenience and because I knew I was not approaching a strength limit just yet. Dipping with the weight was not a problem but my hands are not happy with the pressure points from the bar. LOL I need to get me some neoprine to put over the metal.

Rear Delt Fly - Subbed for the L-FLy, I just felt like I need to give my rotators a bit of a break, I think I will begin to alternate them in and out. Actually I may just alternate an upper body A routine and an upper body B routine during my next log. Granted it will space some of the exercises out more but will allow me to hit more areas specifically.


I don't know if you noticed or not in my dips but yes it did indeed say that I was weighing in at 211 lbs this morning!!!! Now I have to be honest here and say that the past week and a half I have not had as many bowel movements as normal. Not that it is something I want to talk about but it could be a sign of a side effect. I have no idea at all if this has any liver toxicity at all since noone has told us any of that. However my bowels are lighter in color and coming less often and that is a sign of the liver being worked over a little. It could be attributed to other things I am sure. However it is definitely worth mentioning. Not sure if anyone else has noticed this or not.

Another reason it is worth mentioning is that I am slightly distended in the gut right now. I started taking some magnesium to relieve the situation. Regardless something is making it a little dry up in there, and I am a bit stopped up at the moment. Now I am not saying or even hinting that most of the weight is bowel, I honestly think I have put on about 5-6 lbs of LBM during this run. However with holding a bit of water and needing to empty the intestines it is hard to tell. I am hoping to remedy the distended bowel situation before I take my final pics and think I should be around 205-ish and at least as lean as I was when I started if not leaner. It is really hard to tell right now with holding some water and the stomach distension.

Either way the size really seemed to turn itself on the past two weeks. This week even more so i think. I had noticed I was getting bigger and bigger but didn't realize it had equated to a 12 lb gain so far. Curious to see what of this is water and bowel and what is new muscle.

Yeah them things away from the gym that we really enjoy actually help us in the gym even though they are not directly related. Scream 4 is a pretty good horror. Dairy of a wimpy kid part2 in threatres is good if hes into that kind of stuff. Its important to see part one first.

Very nice to hear about the progress of your should've and the confidence level behind it. I think the mental confidence is a big contributor in it fully healed and even surpassing where you were before this time really preventing injury with meticulous form. I recently heard Ronnie Coleman talk about not locking out and how it helped his joints and thought of you. Wed had some good discussions and hope we can still keep learning more and more to help each and every one of us.

Yes it has been nice to gradually increase my trust in my shoulder. I am being very responsive to it regarding making quick changes when I notice something that is out of the norm like I did today with the Chin Grip Pull Downs. I will slowly start working my way back up again I just needed to back up a second and re-approach the 160 with a little less intensity. I allowed the required level of intensity to get to high that last time. I will probably go back up to 150 on my next one then slowly start inching back up and beyond the 160.

 

[ScottyDoc]

Eat more FIBER Big Guy! Nothing a little psyllium husk won't remedy!

 

[celc5]

Just to chime in, I haven't personally had any problems here with the movements.

Just a note on your shoulder recovery, it's not typical for pulldowns to cause a problem post operatively in my experience. Something doesn't sound right to me. I'm expecting that to be one of your movements that outpaces the others during recovery :think:

I'm not personally a fan of "L flies" for the external rotators and wonder if it's the right warm up move for some one who's recovering. I believe that a theraband at your side and again at 45 degrees away from the body (but not clear up to 90 degrees) would be a better warm up choice.

 

[ScottyDoc]

Just to chime in, I haven't personally had any problems here with the movements.

Just a note on your shoulder recovery, it's not typical for pulldowns to cause a problem post operatively in my experience. Something doesn't sound right to me. I'm expecting that to be one of your movements that outpaces the others during recovery :think:

I'm not personally a fan of "L flies" for the external rotators and wonder if it's the right warm up move for some one who's recovering. I believe that a theraband at your side and again at 45 degrees away from the body (but not clear up to 90 degrees) would be a better warm up choice.

Maybe I am just confused on what he means by chin pull downs? Kleen... Can you describe the exercise a little better? Underhand/Overhand? Close grip/Wide Grip? Based on the name "Chin Grip Pull Downs" I would assume it is both close grip and underhand, but ya know what they say about making A$$umptions!!!

 

[ScottyDoc]

Kleen - On a completely different note... Did you receive your package in the mail yet?

 

[MrKleen73]

Eat more FIBER Big Guy! Nothing a little psyllium husk won't remedy!

I actually get in about 35 grams of fiber minimum a day

Just to chime in, I haven't personally had any problems here with the movements.

Just a note on your shoulder recovery, it's not typical for pulldowns to cause a problem post operatively in my experience. Something doesn't sound right to me. I'm expecting that to be one of your movements that outpaces the others during recovery :think:

I'm not personally a fan of "L flies" for the external rotators and wonder if it's the right warm up move for some one who's recovering. I believe that a theraband at your side and again at 45 degrees away from the body (but not clear up to 90 degrees) would be a better warm up choice.

I don't have one of the bands but the L-Fly was giving it a bit of a burn there. I very well could be overtraining my rotators which is why I chose the rear delt machine instead of the L-Fly today.

As far as the discomfort, it could be a muscle like one of the rotators, I am 5 days away from 6 months out from the surgery. I honestly don't think it is in my joint, it does not feel like it is in my joint either. As a matter of fact I would say with 98% certainty it is muscular in nature. However all of my pulling muscles got very deconditioned during the lead up into the surgery. So not sure exactly where the discomfort generated from but I think I am going to try one of the variations you mentioned although I do not have a band I may just use a lighter weight than the 12.5 lb db I have been using.

Also as far as the injury it happened during a deep row, and this discomfort comes in about the same place coming from overhead as it did from a low row. In other words once my elbows come down pointing to the floor and the points of them reach the centerline of my body I feel the twinge. I think this is still a muscle just one that was deconditioned. However there was absolutely no discomfort with the 135. Once again this could have more to do with me using a severe range of motion. Not everyone retracts the elbows as far as i do when i do a pull down. I probably just need to re-teach myself to do this with a more traditional range of motion and see how it feels. I know I stopped about an inch before with the 135 and felt great so that may very well be the way to go withit. That and I still had a large ROM even with the adjustment.

Maybe I am just confused on what he means by chin pull downs? Kleen... Can you describe the exercise a little better? Underhand/Overhand? Close grip/Wide Grip? Based on the name "Chin Grip Pull Downs" I would assume it is both close grip and underhand, but ya know what they say about making A$$umptions!!!

In this case they would be pretty close to right. It is a supinated grip, I often don't use supinated because I don't want to have to define supinated. LOL As far as width, my arms are in alignment with my shoulders, thumb is probably about 2 inches out past the cap of my shoulder.

Kleen - On a completely different note... Did you receive your package in the mail yet?

Yeah I was wondering why I hadn't heard back from you. I sent you a Reputation like Friday or Saturday telling you I got them and was totally stoked to get started.

 

[ScottyDoc]

Yeah I was wondering why I hadn't heard back from you. I sent you a Reputation like Friday or Saturday telling you I got them and was totally stoked to get started.

Waaahhhh? Let me double check that $hit, I don't remember getting that???

So when do you plan to start?

 

[ScottyDoc]

Yeah I was wondering why I hadn't heard back from you. I sent you a Reputation like Friday or Saturday telling you I got them and was totally stoked to get started.

OK, I got the REPs with the message, but it answered my previous question of when you were planning on starting, LoL, it didn't specify that you got them, so my Bad for not understand! It's all GOOD, can't wait for this LOG, it's going to be awesome!

 

[KleensQueen]

Okay not going to go too into my workout. I progressed on everything I did except for the Chin Grip Pull Downs. That was by choice.

I am just gonna list the old weight and new weight on the lifts since the work sets are what counts here.

Bench - Last Workout 185, & 190, this workout 195, 195 - I could have gone up to 205 here on the first set without much problem at all. As a matter of fact I talked myself out of going up again on the second set. Need to keep the progress inline with my recovery ability in the shoulder.

Chin Grip Pull Downs - Last time 160, 160, was extremely hard strained one of the muscles in the rear of my shoulder a tiny bit. I could still feel it hadn't fully recovered so I went with 135x20, 135x20 just nice contraction, get some blood in there and work the muscle so next time it is good and ready to go.

Military Press - Last time 110, 115x10, this time 115x12, 115x10 up 5 on first work set, and then hit same reps for second.

EZ Curl - last time 95x11 with a cheat for 12, this time 95x12 and could have gotten 13 but decided to hold out on it.

Dips - last time BW=205+60, this time BW=211x70, it was just easier to put a 45 and 25 on there than it would have been to put a 45 and 2 10s so I increased it a bit for convenience and because I knew I was not approaching a strength limit just yet. Dipping with the weight was not a problem but my hands are not happy with the pressure points from the bar. LOL I need to get me some neoprine to put over the metal.

Rear Delt Fly - Subbed for the L-FLy, I just felt like I need to give my rotators a bit of a break, I think I will begin to alternate them in and out. Actually I may just alternate an upper body A routine and an upper body B routine during my next log. Granted it will space some of the exercises out more but will allow me to hit more areas specifically.


I don't know if you noticed or not in my dips but yes it did indeed say that I was weighing in at 211 lbs this morning!!!! Now I have to be honest here and say that the past week and a half I have not had as many bowel movements as normal. Not that it is something I want to talk about but it could be a sign of a side effect. I have no idea at all if this has any liver toxicity at all since noone has told us any of that. However my bowels are lighter in color and coming less often and that is a sign of the liver being worked over a little. It could be attributed to other things I am sure. However it is definitely worth mentioning. Not sure if anyone else has noticed this or not.

Another reason it is worth mentioning is that I am slightly distended in the gut right now. I started taking some magnesium to relieve the situation. Regardless something is making it a little dry up in there, and I am a bit stopped up at the moment. Now I am not saying or even hinting that most of the weight is bowel, I honestly think I have put on about 5-6 lbs of LBM during this run. However with holding a bit of water and needing to empty the intestines it is hard to tell. I am hoping to remedy the distended bowel situation before I take my final pics and think I should be around 205-ish and at least as lean as I was when I started if not leaner. It is really hard to tell right now with holding some water and the stomach distension.

Either way the size really seemed to turn itself on the past two weeks. This week even more so i think. I had noticed I was getting bigger and bigger but didn't realize it had equated to a 12 lb gain so far. Curious to see what of this is water and bowel and what is new muscle.



Yes it has been nice to gradually increase my trust in my shoulder. I am being very responsive to it regarding making quick changes when I notice something that is out of the norm like I did today with the Chin Grip Pull Downs. I will slowly start working my way back up again I just needed to back up a second and re-approach the 160 with a little less intensity. I allowed the required level of intensity to get to high that last time. I will probably go back up to 150 on my next one then slowly start inching back up and beyond the 160.

kleen, we dont need to hear about ur bowl movements... :dump:

 

[MrKleen73]

Waaahhhh? Let me double check that $hit, I don't remember getting that???

So when do you plan to start?

I have another couple days in this bottle. I am going to start the 1-Andro the last day I take the progestin. My log will be up no later than Saturday. I will take pics Saturday to close this one out and open that one up. If I run out before then and have time I will go ahead and take pics then otherwise the pics will be taken on Saturday, but I will start the log the same day I start the 1-Andro. Man you guys really hooked a brother up big time for this one! :dance: :dance: :dance:

Yep not much of a wait for this at all.

 

[MrKleen73]

kleen, we dont need to hear about ur bowl movements... :dump:

So turn on the radio. The vent is already on woman... WAIT WHAT???

No really, Hey HUN I got something for you. Come here... :far2t: wned2:

 

[MrKleen73]

OK, I got the REPs with the message, but it answered my previous question of when you were planning on starting, LoL, it didn't specify that you got them, so my Bad for not understand! It's all GOOD, can't wait for this LOG, it's going to be awesome!

That one may even be the second one I sent. I think I mentioned it while responding to another one of our PM's then sent something in a rep when i hadn't heard back. That or my ADHD azz never hit submit...

 

[ScottyDoc]

I have another couple days in this bottle. I am going to start the 1-Andro the last day I take the progestin. My log will be up no later than Saturday. I will take pics Saturday to close this one out and open that one up. If I run out before then and have time I will go ahead and take pics then otherwise the pics will be taken on Saturday, but I will start the log the same day I start the 1-Andro. Man you guys really hooked a brother up big time for this one! :dance: :dance: :dance:

Yep not much of a wait for this at all.

Like I told you on the phone, we take care of our Loggers! You think I'd actually promise you something and then only give you half of what I promised or something? okey: :laugh:

 

[thebigt]

I actually like that idea. I feel like it's tough to tell when the enzymes in the mouth start to break things down for absorption with the liquid. Either way, I hold it in there about 1-2 minutes before swallowing.

agreed. guess we will have to wait and see.

 

[MrKleen73]

agreed. guess we will have to wait and see.

I really think they should shy away from the mint sub-lingual tabs if possible. I mean I know suck it up and take it for the effect but I am not fond of the chalky mint like the mmv3. Many people weren't fond of that. Maybe a cherry or grape or something.

 

[MrKleen73]

I just weighed myself and am 207 now. Already whittling off the water from two loose and long weekends in a row. Abs look a lot better since this morning. Should look good tomorrow as I have kept today relatively low in carbs about 160 for the day 120 of it was at my fast breaker, so I should be releasing some more water over the next day. Speaking of gonna go fill my cup up and head to bed to relax with my lovely wife.

 

[thebigt]

I just weighed myself and am 207 now. Already whittling off the water from two loose and long weekends in a row. Abs look a lot better since this morning. Should look good tomorrow as I have kept today relatively low in carbs about 160 for the day 120 of it was at my fast breaker, so I should be releasing some more water over the next day. Speaking of gonna go fill my cup up and head to bed to relax with my lovely wife.

on behalf of taurus nutrition, thank you for one hellava good log.......


enjoy your quality time with your wife!!!!!

 

[RickRock13]

I have another couple days in this bottle. I am going to start the 1-Andro the last day I take the progestin. My log will be up no later than Saturday. I will take pics Saturday to close this one out and open that one up. If I run out before then and have time I will go ahead and take pics then otherwise the pics will be taken on Saturday, but I will start the log the same day I start the 1-Andro. Man you guys really hooked a brother up big time for this one! :dance: :dance: :dance:

Yep not much of a wait for this at all.

Looking forward to the next chapter and log man and the final pics from this run too!

 

[JudgementDay]

Looking forward to the next chapter and log man and the final pics from this run too!

x2! This has been a great log, I've learned a lot reading MrKLEENs log

 

[MrKleen73]

Today was a cardio day. 45 minutes on walking on the treadmill 440 cals

on behalf of taurus nutrition, thank you for one hellava good log.......


enjoy your quality time with your wife!!!!!

Thank you Sir! It has been my pleasure as well. GREAT PRODUCT! We will see how things shake out but for the minimal sides and shutdown and what I have been able to gain this month would put this on the strong side of mild.

Looking forward to the next chapter and log man and the final pics from this run too!

Yeah I look better this morning than I did yesterday too. The difference in water alone has been huge, and I am not even flushing, just adjusting carbs a bit. I will have one more build day before the final pics so I should have cleaned out nicely and then get in about 200-250 grams of carbs to fill me up a little and Friday or Saturday morning take some pics. Bottle is almost empty now. There is around a 1/4 inch left in bottom of bottle.

x2! This has been a great log, I've learned a lot reading MrKLEENs log

Thanks JD!

 

[GoHardOrGoHme]

You going to continue this log through PCT? Would be nice to see the progress made from before cycle till after cycle, and then after pct to see how well the gains stuck around.

 

[MrKleen73]

You going to continue this log through PCT? Would be nice to see the progress made from before cycle till after cycle, and then after pct to see how well the gains stuck around.

No since this was a very mild run, and I had a longer one planned than just a month, I am going to bridge /slide into a 1-Andro run for 6 weeks then use PCT Revolution Black during PCT. I have only a little left and will more than likely start the 1 Andro what looks like my last day of the progestin. I want to give a fair review of the progestin by not mixing the two for a week before switching over. On this next run I am hoping to get to the final goal of being around 6% while adding some LBM to boot. Right now although leaner than when I started I would not say I have cut down, more that I have built up while not gaining fat since my last measurements. This time I will be doing a little more conventional Kleen to by using more protein shakes and almonds than I have been recently. I have been doing it mostly on whole food consumption but now I am going to keep everything very convenient and that will keep things in line with my calories much moreso by already knowing what a few meals add up to just because they are repeated all the time.

 

[celc5]

Kleen,
I'd go even lighter than the 12.5. Start with a 2.5 plate, then 5, then MAYBE 7.5 if you want to do 3 sets. Do em real slow just force blood in there. Don't be afraid to do the 2nd grade arm cirlces to keep them from cramping between cuff and pulldown sets too.

Thanks for refreshing my memory with how you got hurt, so this makes a lot more sense now with the pulldown issues. And also what I'm thinking with how far you pull your elbows back, you probably have some sort of rotary component at the end there that is cramping your rotator cuff. Do what you can to squeeze your lats through the range without that "extra" last inch at the end range. I bet your lats don't suffer and it won't put the extra unneeded stress on your cuff muscles.

 

[thebigt]

x2! This has been a great log, I've learned a lot reading MrKLEENs log

kleen is the master.:hammer:

 

[MrKleen73]

Kleen,
I'd go even lighter than the 12.5. Start with a 2.5 plate, then 5, then MAYBE 7.5 if you want to do 3 sets. Do em real slow just force blood in there. Don't be afraid to do the 2nd grade arm cirlces to keep them from cramping between cuff and pulldown sets too.

Thanks for refreshing my memory with how you got hurt, so this makes a lot more sense now with the pulldown issues. And also what I'm thinking with how far you pull your elbows back, you probably have some sort of rotary component at the end there that is cramping your rotator cuff. Do what you can to squeeze your lats through the range without that "extra" last inch at the end range. I bet your lats don't suffer and it won't put the extra unneeded stress on your cuff muscles.

Yeah I think that even the 12.5 was too heavy, hard to remember when training them that the cuff muscles are actually really small and not meant for strength training, and that 12.5 on them is pretty much strength training. I was just reading that going over 10 lbs on external rotation was actually pretty heavy for that training so I am decreasing it for sure.

Interesting thing I noticed is that the same spot on the back of my shoulder was some how being stretched by me turning my head to the left earlier. It is on my right side. Kind of weird. you know when a muscle is tight, like a tight hammy or something and you start to stretch it, it was that type of feeling. So definitely muscular in nature by the feel of it. Now I just have to locate the muscle on a chart and verify it is what I expect it is. I think I have slightly overtrained the infraspinatus, could be the supraspinatus also. They overlap a bit so hard to tell since they do a lot of the same motion and both do external rotation.

kleen is the master.:hammer:

Gracias Sir!

 

[RickRock13]

No since this was a very mild run, and I had a longer one planned than just a month, I am going to bridge /slide into a 1-Andro run for 6 weeks then use PCT Revolution Black during PCT. I have only a little left and will more than likely start the 1 Andro what looks like my last day of the progestin. I want to give a fair review of the progestin by not mixing the two for a week before switching over. On this next run I am hoping to get to the final goal of being around 6% while adding some LBM to boot. Right now although leaner than when I started I would not say I have cut down, more that I have built up while not gaining fat since my last measurements. This time I will be doing a little more conventional Kleen to by using more protein shakes and almonds than I have been recently. I have been doing it mostly on whole food consumption but now I am going to keep everything very convenient and that will keep things in line with my calories much moreso by already knowing what a few meals add up to just because they are repeated all the time.

Since the goal for this next run is to get to 6% while adding some LBM, does that mean you will be adjusting the diet down a tad, since you say you basicly maintained the same BF on the progestin?

 

[MrKleen73]

Since the goal for this next run is to get to 6% while adding some LBM, does that mean you will be adjusting the diet down a tad, since you say you basicly maintained the same BF on the progestin?

Well, I am not so sure now. I have really cleaned up surprisingly well already. Easily at were I was for my last body fat reading of 8.4%. However I still have some water on me not much at all but a little and when it is gone I think I will be close to 7.5 or 8% unless I am just wrong abut how much I have cleaned up. That would be almost 2% in a month. I don't think there was really any fat gained there just water and glycogen. I think I will be pretty happy with this run, I feel big, look big and now I look nice and lean on top of that.

To answer more directly though, yes I will be less inclined to allow my appetite dictate my food consumption. I will continue with my ranges and estimations just keep a more vigilant hand regarding allowing excess if I felt like it. I could have easily lost another 1-1.5% this month if I were really focused on cutting or super clean recomping. I have been more inclined to allow myself enjoyment the past couple weeks due to the holiday and some time off and family fun. I just wasn't going to deny myself when I didn't have a good reason too. I will still eat food considered unclean and enjoy myself I will just do it less often or smaller portion when I do. My plan is to get ripped without obsessing about the diet. I will still be being instinctual and adding in calories here and there or extending the fast on burn days.

I kind of like to prove that things can be done without overkill. I don't go all overkill on cardio, weights, and now trying not to without obsessing over planning, packing and consuming food. So I am going to keep to the relaxed style of dieting I have just be a little more restrictive on allowing excess calories.

 

[thebigt]

Well, I am not so sure now. I have really cleaned up surprisingly well already. Easily at were I was for my last body fat reading of 8.4%. However I still have some water on me not much at all but a little and when it is gone I think I will be close to 7.5 or 8% unless I am just wrong abut how much I have cleaned up. That would be almost 2% in a month. I don't think there was really any fat gained there just water and glycogen. I think I will be pretty happy with this run, I feel big, look big and now I look nice and lean on top of that.

To answer more directly though, yes I will be less inclined to allow my appetite dictate my food consumption. I will continue with my ranges and estimations just keep a more vigilant hand regarding allowing excess if I felt like it. I could have easily lost another 1-1.5% this month if I were really focused on cutting or super clean recomping. I have been more inclined to allow myself enjoyment the past couple weeks due to the holiday and some time off and family fun. I just wasn't going to deny myself when I didn't have a good reason too. I will still eat food considered unclean and enjoy myself I will just do it less often or smaller portion when I do. My plan is to get ripped without obsessing about the diet. I will still be being instinctual and adding in calories here and there or extending the fast on burn days.

I kind of like to prove that things can be done without overkill. I don't go all overkill on cardio, weights, and now trying not to without obsessing over planning, packing and consuming food. So I am going to keep to the relaxed style of dieting I have just be a little more restrictive on allowing excess calories.

couldn't have said it better myself.....the world would not be as good without krispy kremes and bacon in it-in moderation, of course.


i went from 260 to 200 without obsessing about diet.

 

[MrKleen73]

Yeah, my first contest diet was pretty darn restrictive. 6 meals a day of chicken, fish, protein, almonds, peanuts, grapefruit and blueberries some type of greens for 20 weeks... A few weeks there I allowed myself 1/2 cup of oats in the morning too. WooHoo! Nope I made my wife miserable. She is afraid of me doing another show. LOL However getting leaner is so much easier for me now. I wont be nervous because I have already been to one and know what to expect. So who knows...

Either way I will be more relaxed and that is the point. Even the diet there is no magic once you understand your body and how it handles food, you just adjust to what you see in the mirror or calipers.