Virile Mane - Hair anyone?

[CTDeuce]

I'm dosing twice a day right now...but since my head is so effed up, i'm actually doing 3 seperate applications with each time I dose.

 

[WebDesigner]

my wife said it looked like mustard, we will see how it goes. not much of a menthol tingle for me

yes it actually does and no tingles for me either maybe im not using enough, im applying about a dime size amount on affected area. However I don't think a menthol tingle actually means anything.

 

[dsade]

yes it actually does and no tingles for me either maybe im not using enough, im applying about a dime size amount on affected area. However I don't think a menthol tingle actually means anything.

correct. Could be less sensitive to menthol. With activation of these receptors, more is definitely not better.

 

[AFOX]

i just ordered VM, the shampoo and toco-8. I have some other antioxidents already. I'm really excited to try this stack, as rogain has not worked for me.

 

[CTDeuce]

I just saw that the shampoo is available at NP. That...is great news :food:

 

[JohnnieFreeze]

I received my VM...smells great and dissolves quickly, and looks like 1 bottle will last awhile. My only concern is that Im trying to normalize a bout of Telogen Effluvium and have no "bald spot" to apply to. I've just been applying all over but I think my hair is getting more of it then my scalp.

 

[dsade]

I received my VM...smells great and dissolves quickly, and looks like 1 bottle will last awhile. My only concern is that Im trying to normalize a bout of Telogen Effluvium and have no "bald spot" to apply to. I've just been applying all over but I think my hair is getting more of it then my scalp.

This is definitely something I am going to try to work on (and something I am seeing in other spots on my head - a thinning from the middle out).

I know the Shampoo will help here, for sure, and as far as technique (I would recommend this at night only) do the following:

Apply small half-pea sized beads in regular intervals. Using claw-like hands, massage the scalp in the area. This should distribute the product mostly on the scalp only in the overall area you want to treat, without getting a huge amount onto the hair shaft. You will get some on the hair, which is why I recommend this at night.

 

[Mr.50]

This is definitely something I am going to try to work on (and something I am seeing in other spots on my head - a thinning from the middle out).

I know the Shampoo will help here, for sure, and as far as technique (I would recommend this at night only) do the following:

Apply small half-pea sized beads in regular intervals. Using claw-like hands, massage the scalp in the area. This should distribute the product mostly on the scalp only in the overall area you want to treat, without getting a huge amount onto the hair shaft. You will get some on the hair, which is why I recommend this at night.

Hey guys this is similar to my situation and that is the technique I have been using to good effect. I also have to say that when I have been do ing it in the morning it really hasen't been that bad either, the VM works sort as a syling pomade on my hair and it is pretty good without any styling products. I have very thin individual hair strands and my hair is short though so it may not work for those with different hair/syles.

Mr.50

 

[dsade]

I have very thin individual hair strands and my hair is short though so it may not work for those with different hair/syles.

Mr.50

Agreed....I got my hair cut this weekend, and noticed that it seems much better with shorter hair.

Early note:

I have new growth that appears to be around 1/8" long. So far not extensive, but definitely noticeable - especially considering I am playing with 1-test/4-AD transdermal stacked with Havoc.

 

[JohnnieFreeze]

This is definitely something I am going to try to work on (and something I am seeing in other spots on my head - a thinning from the middle out).

I know the Shampoo will help here, for sure, and as far as technique (I would recommend this at night only) do the following:

Apply small half-pea sized beads in regular intervals. Using claw-like hands, massage the scalp in the area. This should distribute the product mostly on the scalp only in the overall area you want to treat, without getting a huge amount onto the hair shaft. You will get some on the hair, which is why I recommend this at night.

love the idea of the technique you describe..will do this tonight.
also, I dont mind getting some on my hair as long as it hits my scalp. I wear gel & such so a lil' VM on the hair shaft is a-ok.

 

[Flyboy]

similar to me - overall thinning... i find what works well is to part the hair using two combs then apply small dabs down the parting line, then you can use a finger to rub it in.

do that in a few lines a couple of cm apart over the thinning area and you should get good coverage. still gets a fair bit on the hair though.

 

[cld517]

Agreed....I got my hair cut this weekend, and noticed that it seems much better with shorter hair.

Early note:

I have new growth that appears to be around 1/8" long. So far not extensive, but definitely noticeable - especially considering I am playing with 1-test/4-AD transdermal stacked with Havoc.

are you using anything else to battle your hairloss? ie; Lasers (not that POS hairmax), propecia, minox etc? or is this (in your opinion) the result of using Virile, if so how long have you been using it?

 

[dsade]

are you using anything else to battle your hairloss? ie; Lasers (not that POS hairmax), propecia, minox etc? or is this (in your opinion) the result of using Virile, if so how long have you been using it?

I'm using NOxidant, Java Lustre and Virile MAne - nothing else.

I've had the completed stack around 2.5 weeks.

 

[dsade]

Pictures: Tried to circle the new growth. The new hairs are dark, as expected from the inclusion of the L-Dopa. Hope they come up good enough, if not need to get a new camera.

 

[cld517]

I'm using NOxidant, Java Lustre and Virile MAne - nothing else.

I've had the completed stack around 2.5 weeks.

NOxidant? what is that? is it a NO product, something like Nitrix from BSN..i assume Java Lustre is a shampoo? Btw looking GOOD! you should really try laser therapy..below is a link to laser site put up by a guy from Regrowth.com..it's not me..the site is quite informative..DIY laser helmet etc..

http://overmachogrande.com/

 

[dsade]

NOxidant? what is that? is it a NO product, something like Nitrix from BSN..i assume Java Lustre is a shampoo? Btw looking GOOD! you should really try laser therapy..below is a link to laser site put up by a guy from Regrowth.com..it's not me..the site is quite informative..DIY laser helmet etc..

http://overmachogrande.com/

NOxidant is my Broad Spectrum Antioxidant formula, which reduces free radicals systemically, especially the nasty Reactive Nitrogen Species.

NoXidant (90 Capsules) By: RPN

I'm sticking with my own treatments for now, though I have heard interesting things about Laser as well as Infra-Red treatments.

Regrowth.com is a fantastic site, btw, with some very knowledgable people. I haven't been able to head over there in a long time - I'll try to get over there when I can cut out some free time.

 

[Flyboy]

i could never bring myself to wear a "laser helmet" lol.... how would you ever explain that one to a new girlfriend.

"excuse me dear, I need to go put on my laser helmet for 15 minutes...."

dsade - does your camera have a macro mode? usually depicted by a small flower-like icon. That'll help focus on the close ups and you should get a lot more detail.

I have very consistant pics from when I started fin and minox 10 months ago (same lighting, same angle, same hair length), and I intend to keep on taking them every 2 months or so. It should show any improvement from virile mane, especially in the cow-lick area of the crown because that has stayed the same all the way through despite other areas improving. just taken month 10 photo's, so my next batch of photos are due in almost exactly 2 months so we'll see!

I will say this - photo's are so useful. The mind's eye can really **** with your head and won't tell you the true story as to what's happening with your hair. Do yourself a favour and take good pics under repeatable lighting conditions before starting, that way you'll be able to tell exactly how well something is working for you (or not as the case may unfortunately be).

Dsade - not so much a problem for me, as I use a fair amount, but with people only covering say temples and this bottle lasting i'd guess several months at that rate, are there any concerns regarding a reduction in efficacy as some of the ingredients spoil?

 

[Flyboy]

infact here's my pics.... as you can see I caught it reeeeasonably early which makes things easier as regards treatment.

The one angle that really shows it up is the front on - hair can look really shitty from that angle on sunny days. Very obvious when wet too, lots of scalp visible.

All pics are taken with clean dry hair, and flash.

NOTE: To those reading, these results are NOT from virile mane. Month 10 will be the starting point, with VM being applied nightly to the crown, hairline and a central strip from front to back. This will be in addition to my current xandrox (5% minox, + AA) and 1mg fin in the mornings.

higher res (shows up initial thinning and progress much more) here

 

[poison]

I'm using NOxidant, Java Lustre and Virile MAne - nothing else.

I've had the completed stack around 2.5 weeks.

:huh: Wow. My shampoo went out today, I can't wait to start on it!

dsade, what do you know about muira puama and hair growth? I've seen it mentioned that that is a traditional use for MP.

 

[dsade]

Dsade - not so much a problem for me, as I use a fair amount, but with people only covering say temples and this bottle lasting i'd guess several months at that rate, are there any concerns regarding a reduction in efficacy as some of the ingredients spoil?

Spoilage should not be an issue. We use a suttocide antifungal/antibacterial agent - and the rest of the carrier ingredients are shelf-stable. The rooibos tea and apple polyphenols we are watching closely, for evidence of oxidation, but so far, as long as the closure is sealed after use, there is no evidence.

 

[dsade]

Found the Macro mode...going to try and get closer, more detailed, shot tomorrow morning in the daylight. Getting too much reflection from the flash.

 

[Urban Monk]

:huh: Wow. My shampoo went out today, I can't wait to start on it!

dsade, what do you know about muira puama and hair growth? I've seen it mentioned that that is a traditional use for MP.

Mucuna Pruriens's primary consituent is the L-Dopa, of which Matt has included a 99% Extract.

 

[poison]

Muira Puama's primary consituent is the L-Dopa, of which Matt has included a 99% Extract.

I understand; the traditional use is oral, though. Same effect?

 

[GeneGnomeX]

infact here's my pics.... as you can see I caught it reeeeasonably early which makes things easier as regards treatment.

The one angle that really shows it up is the front on - hair can look really shitty from that angle on sunny days. Very obvious when wet too, lots of scalp visible.

All pics are taken with clean dry hair, and flash.

NOTE: To those reading, these results are NOT from virile mane. Month 10 will be the starting point, with VM being applied nightly to the crown, hairline and a central strip from front to back. This will be in addition to my current xandrox (5% minox, + AA) and 1mg fin in the mornings.

higher res (shows up initial thinning and progress much more) here

Excellent, look forward to this.

 

[blind12]

It, uh, colours my blond hair reddish-brown
Must be the rooibos extract.


Also, in the past I read 3 studies on topical capsaicin and capsaicin inhibited IGF-1 and hair growth in 1 article:

http://ajp.amjpathol.org/cgi/content/abstract/166/4/985

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WG5-4NYJS61-1&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=77bc06c81c010fed31d08b0c60e6867a

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WG5-4N3GX68-1&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=a71f1446c63bb5b6a7eaaa77d6f393cb


And... did you consider including caffeine ?

 

[strategicmove]

Muira Puama's primary consituent is the L-Dopa, of which Matt has included a 99% Extract.

Muira Puama's primary constituent is L-Dopa? Or did you mean to say Mucuna Pruriens?

 

[poison]

Yeah, that's wrong, strategic.

 

[Urban Monk]

Thanks for the save Stratepedia!

 

[Shay4]

Hi,
I started VM few days ago. I have to say that its very easy to apply and its smells nice.
Regarding the smell: Is it fragrance or the peppermint oil ?

Also, are You going to seal the bottles of VM ?

One last question regarding the shampoo: Does it lather well ?
Thank You very much.

 

[dsade]

Hi,
I started VM few days ago. I have to say that its very easy to apply and its smells nice.
Regarding the smell: Is it fragrance or the peppermint oil ?

Also, are You going to seal the bottles of VM ?

One last question regarding the shampoo: Does it lather well ?
Thank You very much.

HI shay...I appreciate te support and compliments.

There is no scent in VM...that is all the peppermint oil combined with the unique natural scent of some of the actives.

The VM packaging is a beta release, and we are currently having custom black and gold bottle/spout caps made. These will be completely shrink sealed.

The Shampoo, while not as viscous as I wished, lathers pretty well considering we avoided the usual lathering agents. My wife, who is a shampoo snob, actually likes it very well - even in her long hair.

 

[Shay4]

2 more questions please:
Will the new VM bottles will be available soon ?
I live in hard water area, Is it ok to use the shampoo by itself or should I wash my hair with apple cider vineger after I shampoo ?
Thanks again

 

[dsade]

2 more questions please:
Will the new VM bottles will be available soon ?
I live in hard water area, Is it ok to use the shampoo by itself or should I wash my hair with apple cider vineger after I shampoo ?
Thanks again

Lead time is 9 weeks for he new bottles =(.

Hard water should not leave too much residue at all and the shampoo rinses very clean, so you shouldn't need to turn your head into a salad dressing.

 

[GeneGnomeX]

It, uh, colours my blond hair reddish-brown
Must be the rooibos extract.


Also, in the past I read 3 studies on topical capsaicin and capsaicin inhibited IGF-1 and hair growth in 1 article:

http://ajp.amjpathol.org/cgi/content/abstract/166/4/985

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WG5-4NYJS61-1&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=77bc06c81c010fed31d08b0c60e6867a

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WG5-4N3GX68-1&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=a71f1446c63bb5b6a7eaaa77d6f393cb


And... did you consider including caffeine ?

Did you read the full studies? The downregulation of IGF-1 and inhibition of hair growth in vitro is discussed in the writeup. In vivo TRPV1 agonism interacts with sensory neurons and increases IGF-1 production in the dermal papilla.

Link to relevant section: http://docs.google.com/View?docID=ddx7hj45_405pb9xqqht#Raspberry_Ketone

Caffeine was considered but evidence is lacking. We picked ingredients that have human research and a solid hypothesis how they work.

 

[Imeniaan]

HI shay...I appreciate te support and compliments.

There is no scent in VM...that is all the peppermint oil combined with the unique natural scent of some of the actives.

The VM packaging is a beta release, and we are currently having custom black and gold bottle/spout caps made. These will be completely shrink sealed.

The Shampoo, while not as viscous as I wished, lathers pretty well considering we avoided the usual lathering agents. My wife, who is a shampoo snob, actually likes it very well - even in her long hair.

Hi Dsade,

Do you sell banish and virile mane on other online strores besides nutraplanet. ?

Thank you

 

[dsade]

Hi Dsade,

Do you sell banish and virile mane on other online strores besides nutraplanet. ?

Thank you

Banish was shipped to BB.com WEEKS ago, but they are incredibly slow getting new products added.

Nutra bought out the entire first run of VM (with the exception of a small shipment sent out to another retailer). EVerything will be restocked by Thursday, and the VM will be shipped to all of my other retailers.

As mentioned, since Nutra bought the entire run, they were able to be the only ones holding the product at the intro price (the price raise was a computer error, intro price was supposed to go for another 2 weeks.)

 

[Steveoph]

Banish was shipped to BB.com WEEKS ago, but they are incredibly slow getting new products added.

Nutra bought out the entire first run of VM (with the exception of a small shipment sent out to another retailer). EVerything will be restocked by Thursday, and the VM will be shipped to all of my other retailers.

As mentioned, since Nutra bought the entire run, they were able to be the only ones holding the product at the intro price (the price raise was a computer error, intro price was supposed to go for another 2 weeks.)

I remember mentioning that $10 price jump to Hank and we were confused about what had happened. That explains it

 

[dsade]

I remember mentioning that $10 price jump to Hank and we were confused about what had happened. That explains it

With special pricing, there has to be an expiration date inputted into the computer (the Gut Health sale is another example), after which the price reverts to regular price.

It was simply set incorrectly.

 

[cld517]

With special pricing, there has to be an expiration date inputted into the computer (the Gut Health sale is another example), after which the price reverts to regular price.

It was simply set incorrectly.

does this mean it is still 29.99? if so, for how much longer?

 

[dsade]

does this mean it is still 29.99? if so, for how much longer?

Should be good for another 1.5-2 weeks.

 

[djremix]

The VM packaging is a beta release, and we are currently having custom black and gold bottle/spout caps made. These will be completely shrink sealed.
.

I had bought 2 and had them shipped international from nutra.
with beta packaging, is there a chance they would arrive leaky or damaged?
what about customs? is there still a nice label on it? :think:

 

[dsade]

I had bought 2 and had them shipped international from nutra.
with beta packaging, is there a chance they would arrive leaky or damaged?
what about customs? is there still a nice label on it? :think:

Labeling is complete, ingredient list prominent, and the bottle DESIGN itself is the same as final. They shouldn't leak at all.

The bottles will be the same size and the spout design the same, just different colors. Right now they are just white - but we are doing some custom black bottles with black and gold spouts.

 

[djremix]

ok thanks D

 

[Imeniaan]

Banish was shipped to BB.com WEEKS ago, but they are incredibly slow getting new products added.

Nutra bought out the entire first run of VM (with the exception of a small shipment sent out to another retailer). EVerything will be restocked by Thursday, and the VM will be shipped to all of my other retailers.

As mentioned, since Nutra bought the entire run, they were able to be the only ones holding the product at the intro price (the price raise was a computer error, intro price was supposed to go for another 2 weeks.)

Thanks, love your work btw, you're an artist!

 

[dsade]

Thanks, love your work btw, you're an artist!

Thank you, sir.

 

[hadrion]

My initial experience with VM is good. I find it to be very soothing actually.

I can't do a 2x a day application though. I have longish hair on top and once I apply it in the morning it hardens up my hair like a gel would and exposes the thinning areas.

It's fine to put on at night an hour or so before bedtime, but I think anyone with longish hair on top might have some issues with a morning application if they have to go out.

I was curious what the tiny brownish flakes are that are in it? My wife puts it on for me and she sees them come out of the bottle from time to time.

 

[dsade]

My initial experience with VM is good. I find it to be very soothing actually.

I can't do a 2x a day application though. I have longish hair on top and once I apply it in the morning it hardens up my hair like a gel would and exposes the thinning areas.

It's fine to put on at night an hour or so before bedtime, but I think anyone with longish hair on top might have some issues with a morning application if they have to go out.

I was curious what the tiny brownish flakes are that are in it? My wife puts it on for me and she sees them come out of the bottle from time to time.

Just shake it before using...that is likely the Emu Oil (high EO content in this formula) "clinging" onto some of the actives (likely the rooibos tea).

Anyone that has used emu oil before will know what I am talking about. Looks like I need to up the emulsifier slightly.

 

[blind12]

Does it make sense to use Dermaroller to increase absorption and release some growth factors of its own ?

Or may it increase raspberrry ketone absorption beyond the desirable range ?

 

[poison]

Just shake it before using...that is likely the Emu Oil (high EO content in this formula) "clinging" onto some of the actives (likely the rooibos tea).

Anyone that has used emu oil before will know what I am talking about. Looks like I need to up the emulsifier slightly.

I have the same issue. Lots of black, um, not clumps, but flat little pieces, between 1/8-1/4in wide.

 

[small_guy]

same here with the clumps, but they are more reddish brown

 

[dsade]

same here with the clumps, but they are more reddish brown

Definitely the rooibos tea. Seems to have a different saturation point.

We keptthe isopropyl alcohol, prpylene glycol and water content as low as possible - both to prevent scalp irritation and prevent oxiation of the tea.

I will up the emulsifier content and we should hold fine.

Judging by my reference stock, the flecks arent bad at all...so effectiveness will not be negatively impacted.