Silver is taking P-Plex to the XTreme (Xtreme Tren that is).

[GMG760]

Dragon - What TG does to his own body is his business. He has never once recommended that people use Methyl Tren. He always stated it was dangerous, and only gave an opinion when he was through using it. In fact, I think that TG has only ever given advice (that I have read) through his own personal experience, and often will be heard telling people that he doesn't react the same to these substances as most do. I have never read TG give advice about pinning, or anything else that he hasn't done for that matter. What TG has done, is do an AMAZING recomp. The pictures prove it, therefore, his advice should be golden for Silver.

You know, this all started with me trying to boost Silver's spirits and remind him that LBM gain is more important than weight gain, and now look at this sh*t we are in, because instead of simply disagreeing with me, you had to come out and say that I was giving bad advice, that my opinion is inherintly wrong. Well, bud, you can do it your way, but don't take away from me what I have gained and learned. Nothing of what I have said is bad advice. We all understand that you have to gain some fat along with the muscle to maximize your potential of weight gain. Not everyone cares about that last 3-4 pounds if it means packing on a gut of fat. I sure don't. Getting those extra few lbs doesn't excuse someone from eating like sh*t or getting out of shape to gain the weight. I wasn't gonna call you directly out, but you calling TG out pissed me off. You have absolutely NO frame of reference for when or how someone should cut or bulk, as you never have been cut yourself. That is the armchair-advising that TG is talking about. Frankly put, if you are 20% bf, you are bordering on fat. There is no excuse to put on that much BF% even on an intense bulk, as it is outside of what is "healthy" for men. Honestly 20% is too much for women IMO. It comes off like you are bagging on being cut because you never have been. You talking about when to cut is like me giving Silver advice about Test Prop. It's just irrelevant because I have never used injectable steroids, just like you have never been cut. You realize at your weight assuming you are 20% bf, you are carrying 52 lbs of fat right? That makes your LBM 208. Mine is about 188-190 and you have 2 inches on me. Who's program is more successful again? You still think lean bulking doesn't work?

Keep doing it your way, just realize that after my next cycle, as far as muscle is concerned, I WILL be damn near as big as you even though you will weigh more than me... and I'll still be able to see my six pack.

 

[TimberLakers]

:werd::goodpost:

wned2:

 

[TimberLakers]

Oh man I want me some of that ogre piss...I hear that shizz is the most anabolic stuff going!

It really is... It'll pack on 3 pounds of muscle and 48 pounds of fat in no time...

See where I'm going with this? :lol:

 

[AZMIDLYF]

Oh man I want me some of that ogre piss...I hear that shizz is the most anabolic stuff going!

I use it to mix my Goat Whey!! It's baaaaaaaad aaaaaaaaaass....

 

[Dragon13]

This is getting ridiculous.

Lean bulking is possible without AAS... However, its easier and faster while on.

He's trying to lose weight too, I'm still unsure how you are advising someone on seeing a six pack someday when the leanest you've ever been is 12%

Where did I ever say the leanest I've ever been is 12%? Can you please direct me to that post? What I actually said was, I measured in at 12% when I was in the best shape of my life. I am an athlete (or was). I do not measure myself by my stupid BF%. I was in the best shape of my life at 12% and ~245 lbs WRT my stength, stamina, and speed. I set my (now former) PRs in bench (400+), squat (nearly 600), and several others including 40-yard dash at that time, in my early 20's, all 100% naturally. My position required me to gain weight; my first few years in college I was leaner than I was at 245. I had abs, the full 6-pack, at ~208-210 lbs. I do not know what BF% this was.

Silver is doin his thing. If you read his intro, he specifically said he wanted to gain LBM and lean out. You injecting your own theories really is the outlier here. He never said he wanted to go on a full-on bulk.

Then perhaps I misread, or misremembered his goal. I was under the impression he was trying to add muscle on this cycle as the goal, with any subsequent decrease in BF b/c of the tren a nice secondary addition.

So yeah, don't shoot the messenger, but not everyone wants to be 260 @ 20%... You realize you're carrying ABOUT 15 pounds more LBM than GMG...

Firstly, unknown = I don't know. OK? Are we clear? Secondly, I am up to 268 lbs. Let me explain someting here. My one and only BF test was done by a trainer with calipers. Everyone knows these tests are notoriously inaccurate, and vary technician to technician. He gave me 12.7%, that's what I go by. It may have been more, it may have been less. Anecdotally, I no longer had all 6abs showing, but the top 2 were clearly visible and the middle 2 were sort of visible. The full pack was visible when flexed. I would venture to say I may have been leaner than you are in your pics up in your current log, and I outweighed you by 60 lbs. OK?

Dragon - What TG does to his own body is his business. He has never once recommended that people use Methyl Tren. He always stated it was dangerous, and only gave an opinion when he was through using it. In fact, I think that TG has only ever given advice (that I have read) through his own personal experience, and often will be heard telling people that he doesn't react the same to these substances as most do. I have never read TG give advice about pinning, or anything else that he hasn't done for that matter. What TG has done, is do an AMAZING recomp. The pictures prove it, therefore, his advice should be golden for Silver.

What does this have to do with anything? I found it a bit of the pot calling the kettle black, when he lectured me about using 1-T and he's got a log where he used a compund so toxic it is potentially deadly. And didn't I read somewhere in there he's done virually every methyl oral on the market at one point or another? This 1-T run was my 3rd ever venture into anabolics. Regardless, I'm sure he can defend himself. Apparently you guys run pretty tight, but you don't need to leap to his defense. He's a big boy.

You know, this all started with me trying to boost Silver's spirits and remind him that LBM gain is more important than weight gain,

(Obviously)

and now look at this sh*t we are in, because instead of simply disagreeing with me, you had to come out and say that I was giving bad advice, that my opinion is inherintly wrong.

(sighs) I thought we had cleared this up. See post #326. I stand by my statement. I strongly disagree with the line "Let the fat come off, then concentrate on gaining the weight back in muscle". The way it is written makes it sound as if the priority in the cycle should be getting lean, nit adding muscle. This was contrary to Silver's stated goal (I believe), and is not a good idea for a short oral cycle anyways.

Well, bud, you can do it your way, but don't take away from me what I have gained and learned.

What are you talking about? What have I taken away from you?

Nothing of what I have said is bad advice. We all understand that you have to gain some fat along with the muscle to maximize your potential of weight gain. Not everyone cares about that last 3-4 pounds if it means packing on a gut of fat. I sure don't. Getting those extra few lbs doesn't excuse someone from eating like sh*t or getting out of shape to gain the weight. I wasn't gonna call you directly out, but you calling TG out pissed me off. You have absolutely NO frame of reference for when or how someone should cut or bulk, as you never have been cut yourself. That is the armchair-advising that TG is talking about. Frankly put, if you are 20% bf, you are bordering on fat. There is no excuse to put on that much BF% even on an intense bulk, as it is outside of what is "healthy" for men. Honestly 20% is too much for women IMO. It comes off like you are bagging on being cut because you never have been. You talking about when to cut is like me giving Silver advice about Test Prop. It's just irrelevant because I have never used injectable steroids, just like you have never been cut.

See above bud. I'm not sure where you get off telling me what shape I've been in my life. Do I know you? Do you know me? You think you have all the answers...

You realize at your weight assuming you are 20% bf, you are carrying 52 lbs of fat right? That makes your LBM 208. Mine is about 188-190 and you have 2 inches on me. Who's program is more successful again? You still think lean bulking doesn't work?

At 268 at 20% I would have 53.6 lbs of fat and 214.4 lbs LBM. However, for the 19th time, I do not know what my BF% is. I do know I bench 400+, squat 500+, push press ~335, and deadlift 600+ at this very second. I also have nearly 20" arms, they may be 20" pending a recent measurement, and a 52" chest. What are your stats little man? Oh OK, at 6'0" and 198, to have 190 lbs of LBM, that would mean your BF% is... 4%??? I LOLed. :icon_lol: If you're going to pretend you walk around in contest condition every day, at least be smart enough not to put yourself in your avatar.

Keep doing it your way, just realize that after my next cycle, as far as muscle is concerned, I WILL be damn near as big as you even though you will weigh more than me... and I'll still be able to see my six pack.

Whatever you say. You look kind of like I did my first few years of college before I had to gain weight, at least conditioning-wise. I was very lean and weighed 208-210. Hmm, that's more than you, and I was still a teenager too. I am currently much more advanced in terms of muscle gained then I was at that point. However, it took years of natural lifting to get to my peak shape. Unless you plan on pinning test and tren for like 4 months - ain't gonna happen.

Silver, I apologize again for all this BS. I will not post again in this thread. I don't have time to argue with these young guys who think they've got it all figured out. Good luck, but remember one thing above all else in this game: new muscle is a LOT harder to add than old fat is to lose, especially at our age. Plan your cycles accordingly.

/argument

 

[TimberLakers]

If I wanted to look like a packmule... I'd be there.

Not sure I ever said I was in fight shape at this very moment!?! But I'm pretty sure I've put on 30 pounds or so this year with only one mild oral cycle. If I wanted to be at 7 or 8%, it would take me about 6 weeks. Don't believe me? Tune in around April.

I really don't care how ripped you think you were in highschool and college... Seems to me like you're living in the past there Jabba.

 

[Papa T]

Just poppin in to tell ya I eat brownies, cookies and cereal after my workout at night. The more calories the better while "on" bitches <--- my personal opinion

 

[TimberLakers]

Just poppin in to tell ya I eat brownies, cookies and cereal after my workout at night. The more calories the better while "on" bitches <--- my personal opinion

Crushing a mix of granola and frosted flakes right now my man.

 

[TimberLakers]

Good bit of this thread blowout is my fault. Taking opinions a bit to seriously.

My apologies to Dragon for the insults, and to Silver for distracting from his log.

Anyone who can lift that much iron is OK in my book, all differences aside.

 

[Silver3CSRT8]

I don't want anyone to leave this thread due to a little disagreement. I appreciate all of the discussion honestly because as has been discussed what works for one person might not for the other. I am pretty new to this bodybuilding thing and I am taking bits and peices of what works for others and incorporating in my plan.


I am trying to use this cycle as a "lean" bulk which is why I chose this vs. H-Drol and MMV2. I want to gain size and add some serious muscle mass during this cycle and if I have to gain fat to do so then I will. I hope to minimize the fat gain though and I think for the most part that is happening. I can cut fat, but not at a very quick pace so I would prefer not to gain too much of it.

Disagreements happen on a forum like this where people believe in what they are doing and are passionate about it.

 

[AZMIDLYF]

Hey Silver...how's the log!:sucks:

 

[Silver3CSRT8]

Hey Silver...how's the log!:sucks:

I feel like a slacker having not worked out on Sunday or Monday. I had to skip yesterday's workout due to family committments. I will be tearing things up tonight though guaranteed.

 

[AZMIDLYF]

I was not refering to your log Silver...just the other banter for the last few posts. I don't like it when things get chippy over differences of "opinions". We are here to build eachother up, not tear down.

 

[carib102]

After two days off I'm sure you're gonna tear it up tonight mayne! Give that iron the :rocketwhore:

 

[thundergod]

This is getting ridiculous.




What does this have to do with anything? I found it a bit of the pot calling the kettle black, when he lectured me about using 1-T and he's got a log where he used a compund so toxic it is potentially deadly. And didn't I read somewhere in there he's done virually every methyl oral on the market at one point or another? This 1-T run was my 3rd ever venture into anabolics. Regardless, I'm sure he can defend himself. Apparently you guys run pretty tight, but you don't need to leap to his defense. He's a big boy.

You're right. I am a big boy. And I can damn sure defend myself. By any means necessary. :firedevil:
At least when I ran the methyl tren, I was sitting at 10 or 11% bodyfat. That's why I "lectured" you about using the 1-T. No other reason. Your bodyfat is too high to be using anything hormonal. You may not like to hear that, but oh well. I still don't see why you feel the need to bulk, when you already weight 269 lbs. What are you shooting for? 300 lbs.??!!

And I NEVER advised anyone else on this planet to use methyl tren. So........:bryce:

 

[Silver3CSRT8]

Guys I just wanted to post a quick pic update to see if I am seeing things when I say I am gaining weight, but dropping body fat.

What are your honest thoughts 3+ weeks into the cycle? Ignore the goofy ass face!
Update:

Old Pic for Reference:

 

[AZMIDLYF]

Damn Silver...Arms have filled out nicely,chest looks fuller,and the traps are thicker. Very noticeable differences!! And the midsection is tighter as well

 

[Silver3CSRT8]

Day 22 and 23 (Combined due to unexpected off day yesterday)

90mg of XTreme Tren (30mg at 6:30AM, 30mg around 11:30AM and 30mg this evening)

30MG of P-Plex Day 1 (10mg at 6:30AM, 10mg around 11:30AM and 10mg this evening)

SUPPlEMENTS:
Supplements consisted of cycle support, fish oil, vitamin C, vitamin B complex, chasteberry and taurine. Also had Xtend and a protein shake after workout.

MEASUREMENTS & WEIGHT:

Last reading: 207.0lbs (+8.lbs) Weight still up after my low weight scare. Will post an update on 1/30/09.

STRENGTH/ENDURANCE:

Holy **** I am getting strong like ThunderGod said would happen. See below for workout details.

SIDES:


1) LIBIDO - Not craving sex like a lunitic, but no problems performing.
2) BP - 149/88 Was unable to get blood pressure checked today, but will try to test it out tomorrow.
3) AGGRESSION - Still gotta give the aggression a 9 out of 10.
4) HAIR LOSS - Holy crap all my hair fell out (oh wait that was years ago).
5) GYNO SYMPTOMS - I was really worried about this cycle as far as gyno concerns, but I don't have any added sensitivity. I have to thank TG and others for the supplement recommendations to keep progestin and prolactin in check.
6) TESTICULAR ATROPHY - Maybe minor atrophy, but they are still hanging pretty low.
7) MISC. - The only sides I have had with this combo have been back pumps and pretty constant lower back soreness. Besides that and hightened aggression this has been an awesome cycle.

MOOD/ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE:

People talked some sense into me and I will keep the Xtreme Tren (19-Nor) at 90mg, but I will run it an extra 2 days.

The Workout
I have been looking forward to this chest workout to see where I am at. My workout parner was unavailable so I was unable to try maxing out, but I still impressed myself with how far my strenght has come.

Started with flat bench and a warmup set of 135lbs x 10. Moved to 225 and nailed 10 solid reps. I have not been able to hit above 7-8 in the past. Went to 275lbs and cranked out 5 reps before dropping to 185lbs for 10 reps.

Also hit incline, but I didn't go real heavy with the weight because I focus on incline during chest workout 2 for the week.

Even after going heavy I was able to do sets of 18, 10 and 10 on dips which is pretty good since my body weight has gone up a bit.

THOUGHTS:

I posted pics earlier to see what you guys thought. I was not going to until I got home from my workout and looked in the mirror and said man I am starting to lean up. I hope this is not all in my head though. Also understand I am not a finished product and still have a long, long way to go!

Should be able to get my back workout in tomorrow which should get them back pumps going!

 

[TimberLakers]

Silver, you have a thick f*cking neck.

I can definitely see some size... The pictures are a little too different for me to pinpoint, but the pecs for sure, and I think I'm seeing some tri size too.

 

[GMG760]

Jesus Tapdancing Christ Silver. You are changing right before our eyes. I mean... holy flippin cow. Great job my friend. Great job.

 

[DLM5]

That is freaking awesome man!! Your looking mean!!
You upper chest is filling in and the muscle is covering the collar bone, nice progress there.
You traps are looking thick, and you got a neck like a tank.
Your leaning out.. Impressive job..
Now I know why you said dudes were eying you when you were out that one night..
Your a BFM..
Big Muther Fcucker... or Bad Muther Fcucker.. take your pick
:bb3:

 

[suncloud]

miss a couple days and look at this mess! keep on trucking silver - your goals are your goals.

i know nothing about pplex, so i would be retarded to comment on this. with regards to tren (19nor for those who are confused) i gained 2 pounds per week, while leaning out maybe 1% body fat in 3 weeks. this was on a major calorie surplus - this compound is what taught me to bulk on a whole new level.

dunno how informative that post was, but take it for what its worth - maintenance calories on tren should give you a serious recomp effect, though as you already know, its a calorie hungry beast.


EDIT : chest is definitely filling out

 

[Bravoboy]

yep, you guys said it. from the chest all the way to the traps. your lookin good bro. from the avy to your newly updated pic. WOW.

 

[thundergod]

Holy metamorphasis Batman!! :masked: :shocked:
Silver, I'm not saying this just because we're e-homies, but you are looking totally badass!! Hel, I like that mean-mug you're giving the camera. :mischievous:

Yes, you are definitely leaning up. It's very obvious from this last photo you took. You were wise in snapping that pic. I see increased thickness along the pecs, delts and traps. But also your arm from that shot looks long and full. WOW!! Then there's that frikkin bull-neck!! :evil:

I'm uber impressed brutha. And the God of Thunder isn't easily impressed. Believe me.

 

[Silver3CSRT8]

Thanks for the feedback and confirmation guys. I really felt like I was seeing a different person in the mirror than just 3 weeks ago and I am glad it was not in my head.

This combo has given me more of a recomp effect than I envisioned and that is with greatly reduced cardio due to my uncormfortable situation. I don't think I have hit cardio in a week.

 

[Papa T]

Thanks for the feedback and confirmation guys. I really felt like I was seeing a different person in the mirror than just 3 weeks ago and I am glad it was not in my head.

This combo has given me more of a recomp effect than I envisioned and that is with greatly reduced cardio due to my uncormfortable situation. I don't think I have hit cardio in a week.

Now that you all built him up I'll do him the bigger favor by dropping him down for more motivation in the gym.

I agree with a lot of the positive feedback you received. Let's give the shoulders some more attention...heavy military presses(both barbell and dumbell), heavy partial rep laterals with nice holds while fighting the "burn" through the negative...traps look good so isolate the shoulders specifically and finish them with a high rep drop set or FST-7 style finish.
I want to see a new back pic to critique.

Man, I got some nasty wrist/forearm pumps last night at the gym while tearin my lower lats and everything else up.

Keep it up kid!!!

 

[Silver3CSRT8]

Now that you all built him up I'll do him the bigger favor by dropping him down for more motivation in the gym.

I agree with a lot of the positive feedback you received. Let's give the shoulders some more attention...heavy military presses(both barbell and dumbell), heavy partial rep laterals with nice holds while fighting the "burn" through the negative...traps look good so isolate the shoulders specifically and finish them with a high rep drop set or FST-7 style finish.
I want to see a new back pic to critique.

Man, I got some nasty wrist/forearm pumps last night at the gym while tearin my lower lats and everything else up.

Keep it up kid!!!

Thx for the honest feedback and I know I still have lots of weak points that I need to work out I totally destroyed my shoulders and biceps today and the pump was so bad in my arms that it hurt re-racking the ez curl bar. It was so bad it was painful to try and remove my gloves. I am trying to push the weight heavier on military press and I am doing 55lb & 60lb dumbbells. I also finished wigh a heavy set of military press on the hammer strength machine with 80lbs per side for 3 sets of 10.

I will post some better pics when I finish the cycle in 1.5 weeks.

Couple of questions...
Are heavy partial rep laterals better than lighter weight full motion ones? In the past I have stayed with the lighter weight method using 20-25lb dumbbells.

For dumbbell military press I typically do the Arnold presses vs. standard military press. Any thoughts on the pros and cons of the different presses?

Thx again for taking the time to point out areas that I need to work on and providing good recommendations!

 

[TimberLakers]

I refuse to partial rep anything, but then again... I'm not huge.

But dude, the amount of pain you are in sounds awesome.

 

[Silver3CSRT8]

Day 24

90mg of XTreme Tren (30mg at 6:30AM, 30mg around 11:30AM and 30mg this evening)

30MG of P-Plex Day 1 (10mg at 6:30AM, 10mg around 11:30AM and 10mg this evening)

SUPPlEMENTS:
Supplements consisted of cycle support, fish oil, vitamin C, vitamin B complex, chasteberry and taurine. Also had Xtend and a protein shake after workout.

MEASUREMENTS & WEIGHT:

Last reading: 207.0lbs (+8.lbs) Will post an update on 1/30/09.

STRENGTH/ENDURANCE:

Still getting stronger every day.

SIDES:


1) LIBIDO - Not craving sex like a lunitic, but no problems performing.
2) BP - 149/88 Working from home due to the weather. Us Texans freak out if there is a little ice on the ground.
3) AGGRESSION - Still gotta give the aggression a 9 out of 10.
4) HAIR LOSS - Holy crap all my hair fell out (oh wait that was years ago).
5) GYNO SYMPTOMS - Absolutely no issues here.
6) TESTICULAR ATROPHY - Maybe minor atrophy, but they are still hanging pretty low.
7) MISC. - The only sides I have had with this combo have been back pumps and pretty constant lower back soreness. Besides that and hightened aggression this has been an awesome cycle.

MOOD/ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE:

I think the P-Plex is starting to really take hold now. I had the worst arm pumps that I have ever had (including Epi and M-Drol). I could barely lift my arms after the workout and it hurt to take my gloves off.

The Workout
Today was Biceps and Shoulders. It was a little shortened due to working out during my lunch hour, but I still accomplished enough to get the job done.

Today I was able to Hammer Curl 60lb dumbbells which is the heaviest I have ever been able to. These were good clean sets with no swinging. I also did sets of wide grip and close grip ez bar curls and incline hammer curls.

As stated in an above post I also hit shoulders. I started with Arnold Presses, then Dumbbell shrugs, Hammer Strength Shrugs, and finished with Hammer Strength Military Press.

THOUGHTS:

Thanks again for the feedback everyone. This has been a fun, great journey and one I honestly never thought I would ever take. Now I can't imagine myself not working out and improving myself. I have so far to go, but time is on my side. I feel better, younger and I am able to enjoy life much more as a result of these changes.

 

[AZMIDLYF]

Silver, you just took life changing steps big guy....it's all good from here on!!

 

[DLM5]

Silver..
Hey help a brother out would ya? I am on day 3 of my Tren Xtreme by ACL.. I have all my support supps, and dosing down except..
The chasteberry that TG was recomending you run.. I got the chasteberry today, but don't recall the dosing for it.. I will have to do a search when I have time...
Or maybe you will help a bro out and tell me what your running it at ED?
Thanks

 

[GMG760]

Thx for the honest feedback and I know I still have lots of weak points that I need to work out I totally destroyed my shoulders and biceps today and the pump was so bad in my arms that it hurt re-racking the ez curl bar. It was so bad it was painful to try and remove my gloves. I am trying to push the weight heavier on military press and I am doing 55lb & 60lb dumbbells. I also finished wigh a heavy set of military press on the hammer strength machine with 80lbs per side for 3 sets of 10.

I will post some better pics when I finish the cycle in 1.5 weeks.

Couple of questions...
Are heavy partial rep laterals better than lighter weight full motion ones? In the past I have stayed with the lighter weight method using 20-25lb dumbbells.

For dumbbell military press I typically do the Arnold presses vs. standard military press. Any thoughts on the pros and cons of the different presses?

Thx again for taking the time to point out areas that I need to work on and providing good recommendations!

Arnolds are great shoulder exercises, but frankly it's a complex enough of a movement that you have to use lighter weight. I am kind of beginning to believe that for your primary exercise for each bodypart, one should do the exercise that they can move the most weight with, causing the most muscle fiber activation. For instance, I like skull crushers best on my tricep day, but I can close grip bench press a ****-ton more weight than I can move with a skull crusher. My triceps have been noticing the difference. the same can be said with shoulders, at least for me, that is - I get the best growth from exercises using higher weights, in which case it is the barbell military press. I was pressing around 200 for 1-2 reps when I was on cycle last... I am down to 185ish for a few these days, but I can't really touch either of those numbers with dumbbells. I'm not saying to get rid of the dumbbells, I'm just saying to try some old fashioned heavy barbell movements. I love upright rows as well, they hit the traps quite a bit, but I get a really nice upper body pump from them, and my shoulder vascularity has increased quite a bit with the inclusion of that exercise it seems.

 

[MATTYO1977]

:gives:

It's your log. Call it ogre piss if you want. You're not incorrect in the least. Like Money said, you didn't print the label - we all know what you're taking.

DUDE!
Now I totally have to change the name of the log I was going to start!

Foiled again by Timber...

Keep up that great work Sliver. I have followed you for quite a while and you have made some awesome changes, not only physically but in lifestyle. Keep fighting the good fight my brother in iron.

 

[MATTYO1977]

Silver, I just got to your pics! HOLY!!! Fill in whatever word you want. HUGE change I think and those aren't even the same pose to really compare. Much thicker and definitely leaner. Keep at it.

and as far as the Arnold press? I would stick to a barbell press heavier for a while. If nothing else for the change. Like G said the weight increase will be great as will the support muscles you will need to use. I like a smith or barbell or even machine for change with those but keep them moderate to heavy for a bit. Pack some meat on those shoulders.
AWESOME!

 

[AZMIDLYF]

Nailed it G!! Heavy and hard first...then the finishing movements.

 

[TimberLakers]

Silver..
Hey help a brother out would ya? I am on day 3 of my Tren Xtreme by ACL.. I have all my support supps, and dosing down except..
The chasteberry that TG was recomending you run.. I got the chasteberry today, but don't recall the dosing for it.. I will have to do a search when I have time...
Or maybe you will help a bro out and tell me what your running it at ED?
Thanks

Depends what the dosage on your caps are homie. Just one cap every morning should be sufficient.

I think mine are 565mg / cap.

 

[Silver3CSRT8]

Silver..
Hey help a brother out would ya? I am on day 3 of my Tren Xtreme by ACL.. I have all my support supps, and dosing down except..
The chasteberry that TG was recomending you run.. I got the chasteberry today, but don't recall the dosing for it.. I will have to do a search when I have time...
Or maybe you will help a bro out and tell me what your running it at ED?
Thanks

I am dosing 1 caps 3 times per day split along with the Tren.

Mine is from Vitamin Shoppe and has the following serving breakout:
Supplement Facts
Serving Size 1
Servings Per Container 100

Amount Per Serving % Daily Value

CHASTEBERRY EXTRACT (VITEX AGNUS-CASTUS)(BERRY) STD. TO 0.5% AGNUSIDES 1 MG 200 Mg N/A*

Chasteberry (Vitex Agnus-Castus)(Berry) 300 Mg N/A*



I don't know if that is the best dose, but I can say for a fact that I don't have gyno or leaky nipples 3+ weeks into the cycle. Feel free to ask away and I will do my best to answer.

 

[thundergod]

I am dosing 1 caps 3 times per day split along with the Tren.
Mine is from Vitamin Shoppe and has the following serving breakout:
Supplement Facts
Serving Size 1
Servings Per Container 100

Amount Per Serving % Daily Value

CHASTEBERRY EXTRACT (VITEX AGNUS-CASTUS)(BERRY) STD. TO 0.5% AGNUSIDES 1 MG 200 Mg N/A*

Chasteberry (Vitex Agnus-Castus)(Berry) 300 Mg N/A*


I don't know if that is the best dose, but I can say for a fact that I don't have gyno or leaky nipples 3+ weeks into the cycle. Feel free to ask away and I will do my best to answer.

Very good advice Silver. That 3 cap serving gives you a total of 900 mg. of chasteberry for the day. I take 1 gram (mine are 500 mg. per cap) at nightime when I run Tren or Phera.

 

[DLM5]

Right on, TL, Silver, and TG.. Thanks!!
I'm gonna do 1000mgs a day and dose it at night.
I want to thank Silver again for this log, it's a great resource for me since I just started my first cycle and it's Tren.
I want to thank TG also. I am following his log and have copied some of his supps dosing and protocol that I was missing..

 

[TimberLakers]

Right on, TL, Silver, and TG.. Thanks!!
I'm gonna do 1000mgs a day and dose it at night.
I want to thank Silver again for this log, it's a great resource for me since I just started my first cycle and it's Tren.
I want to thank TG also. I am following his log and have copied some of his supps dosing and protocol that I was missing..

Got home to check my bottle... and mine were actually only 300mg. Checked my log, and I was dosing 2. One cap with each serving of CSupport. All on the same page - since you guys are bigger than me anyway.

 

[Silver3CSRT8]

All on the same page - since you guys are bigger than me anyway.

Thats what she said!:boobies:

 

[TimberLakers]

Thats what she said!:boobies:

C'mon Silver... Size doesn't matter...

at:

 

[carib102]

:lol:

 

[madds87]

Hey silver sorry im a little late...... your just now starting the pplex...... wow ok im really late! But what i was reading, it was saying that you had a huge transformation. Do you have any old pics of what you looked like? im just curious.
Also just wanted to mention im on pplex also. Ive been loving it lately im on my second week running at 40mgs. But let me know if you ever run into a feeling like your skin is really really itchy! i meeeeeennnn reaaalllyyy itchy! it only lasts for maybe 5 minutes. I hink its the blood pressure but not sure. But just would like to know if anyone else gets this. But good coice in ph! lol

 

[thundergod]

Hey silver sorry im a little late...... your just now starting the pplex...... wow ok im really late! But what i was reading, it was saying that you had a huge transformation. Do you have any old pics of what you looked like? im just curious.

Look on page 5 and post #129. You'll see the amazing transformation that Silver has undergone.

 

[Silver3CSRT8]

Hey silver sorry im a little late...... your just now starting the pplex...... wow ok im really late! But what i was reading, it was saying that you had a huge transformation. Do you have any old pics of what you looked like? im just curious.
Also just wanted to mention im on pplex also. Ive been loving it lately im on my second week running at 40mgs. But let me know if you ever run into a feeling like your skin is really really itchy! i meeeeeennnn reaaalllyyy itchy! it only lasts for maybe 5 minutes. I hink its the blood pressure but not sure. But just would like to know if anyone else gets this. But good coice in ph! lol

As ThunderGod said post 129 is a Pic I possted before I started working out. However, that was actually in decent shape compared to my worst of 2655lbs of pure fat ass.

As for the itching...I had an issue during week 2 of P-Plex where I had a rash on my arms. All of a sudden my arms started itching like crazy and I did the worst thing possible by scratching. I started popping some benadryl which helped that issue and it has not come back since.

 

[Papa T]

Couple of questions...
Are heavy partial rep laterals better than lighter weight full motion ones? In the past I have stayed with the lighter weight method using 20-25lb dumbbells.

For dumbbell military press I typically do the Arnold presses vs. standard military press. Any thoughts on the pros and cons of the different presses?

Thx again for taking the time to point out areas that I need to work on and providing good recommendations!

Lighter weight laterals are great, but many people do not realize the benefit of forced heavy partials. When I perform the laterals that way it's kind of like a strong static hold at the top of the movement, but the weight is so heavy it's impossible to keep the static hold...I then keep trying to force the dumbells up even though they are on the decent...it takes a lot of concentration and you have to really fight the burn...chose a weight that you can move up to about half the distance you would normally bring your lighter weight laterals to. Get rid of those "Arnolds", unless you really like them and want to add them in the middle or end of your workout. My typical shoulder day looks like this...dumbell presses - 4 sets(3 with 8-12 rep range and one strength set 3-5 reps), barbell or smith machine presses if no spotter - same set/rep scheme as dumbell presses, seated or standing dumbell laterals superset with bent over raises for the rear delts (same set/rep scheme), then I use either machines or cables for finishing touches on various delt heads for another 4-7 sets. May seem like a lot but you would be surprised how much your body can take and recover from while "on". Put everything you can into an hour and a half a day at least 4 days per week and your results will continue to impress us all. Peace

 

[GMG760]

Ok guys, I'm back.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/115519-when-all-else.html#post1780707

 

[madds87]

Yeah i started doing the same thing. It feels alot better. I just hope no one tries to pick a fight with me, cause then ill start itching..... No one can take you serious when your yelling while your scratching yourself all over like a mad man. haha. "Yeah what now!" While im scratching my back against something and scratching my arms. I prob look like a crack addict..... hahaha. oh well. But anyway...

SIlver dude!!!!! awsome gains!!!!! i give you some awsome awsome awsome MAD props!
Huge respect.

 

[Silver3CSRT8]

Day 25 and 26 (Combined update)

90mg of XTreme Tren (30mg at 6:30AM, 30mg around 11:30AM and 30mg this evening)

30MG of P-Plex Day 1 (10mg at 6:30AM, 10mg around 11:30AM and 10mg this evening)

SUPPLEMENTS:
Supplements consisted of cycle support, fish oil, vitamin C, vitamin B complex, chasteberry and taurine. Also had Xtend and a protein shake after workout.

MEASUREMENTS & WEIGHT:

Last reading: 208.0lbs (+9lbs) Getting close to my 10lb+ goal and I still have over a week left.

STRENGTH/ENDURANCE:

Set a new bench PR of 335 x 1. My attem

SIDES:


1) LIBIDO - Not craving sex like a lunitic, but no problems performing.
2) BP - 149/88 If I can get it checked this afternoon I will. I am dosing extra HB and CoQ-10 so it should be OK and I only have a week left..
3) AGGRESSION - Still gotta give the aggression a 9 out of 10.
4) HAIR LOSS - Holy crap all my hair fell out (oh wait that was years ago).
5) GYNO SYMPTOMS - Absolutely no issues here.
6) TESTICULAR ATROPHY - Maybe minor atrophy, but they are still hanging pretty low.
7) MISC. - My back is hurting big time. I think this is more due to the P-Plex than the Xtreme Tren. It really affected how much I could attempt on dead lifts and makes other day to day activities tougher.

MOOD/ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE:

I hit one of my pre-cycle goals and I am really excited. Yesterday I measured my biceps and my left one was at 17" cold and my right one was at 16 7/8". That is up .25" in a little over 3 weeks....FUCK YEAH!

The Workout
Thursday I hit back workout. The only real notables here were dumbbell rows with 90lb dumbbells which is heavier than I have been able to do before. I also finished Lat pull downs with a set of 5 @190lbs which is 40-50lbs more than I usually attempt. I also did Dead lifts, Hammer Strength rows, Cable Rows and Pullups.

Today was my second chest workout of the week. The goal of today was primarily upper chest and heavy weight. My other chest day I focus on complete chest/tris and typically do more sets/reps.

I also attempted a new max since I had a workout partner. I nailed 335 x 1 on flat bench. I failed miserably 3 weeks ago with my last attempt so I was very stoked at the strength difference and I still have a week to go!

I also hit incline, decline, flat bench and pullovers.


THOUGHTS:

Currently my goals have been accomplished with this cycle. I nailed 335 on bench, measured 17" bicep, gained close to 10lbs (definately 10 by the end of the cycle) and have leaned out while gaining some serious muscle mass. About this time into the cycle the back pumps and constant back pain start really affecting me. I plan to push thought it because no pain, no gain. I have 4 days left with the Xtreme Tren and I will be finishing up my entire cycle next Sunday. Then it is off to PCT.

Of course my goal of PCT is to keep the muscle gain, but lose the fat. Anyone see any reasons why I can't start my REDuction/DCP stack week 1 of PCT? I would like to get leaner for my March Los Cabos trip.