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The Lean Gains / IF learning and Discussion Log

I had a very successful 3 months on LG and went from 199-179 on 2800 work day 1800 burn using +20/-20 on a 3 day split. I had 3 fasted cardio burn sessions a week too

I'm currently on week 3 of a 12 week test e with 4 week boladrol kickstart. I bumped workout days to 4 days total. My numbers are 3300 work day and 2300 (maintenance) on burn day. I wanted to get jacked on my first test e run but my stomach is losing what abs I discovered on my 3 month cut. I'm hoping it's just bola that's retaining water but idk. I read for lean bulk to do maintenance on burn days and +40 on work day. I am doing 2 days of fasted cardio still but my abs are slowly fading. Any suggestion on number change for lean bulk?
 
wesg49 said:
I had a very successful 3 months on LG and went from 199-179 on 2800 work day 1800 burn using +20/-20 on a 3 day split. I had 3 fasted cardio burn sessions a week too

I'm currently on week 3 of a 12 week test e with 4 week boladrol kickstart. I bumped workout days to 4 days total. My numbers are 3300 work day and 2300 (maintenance) on burn day. I wanted to get jacked on my first test e run but my stomach is losing what abs I discovered on my 3 month cut. I'm hoping it's just bola that's retaining water but idk. I read for lean bulk to do maintenance on burn days and +40 on work day. I am doing 2 days of fasted cardio still but my abs are slowly fading. Any suggestion on number change for lean bulk?
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I would just lower calories bro ... Water retention is natural when on cycles (unless is a cutting cycle) but ur on a bulk cycle, not a pro on the compounds ur using but I've done Test cycles only and retained water like a mug till about 6 weeks in cycle no matter how much I tweaked calories ... Hope that helps lil
 
DreamWeaver said:
Once you establish your own baselines it doesn't matter as much about the differences. You can really overthink this stuff...
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Yup thats probably the main reason why people tend to stick to the same foods. Instead of minus 200 cals every day, they are like... hmm.. change 1cup of rice to 3/4 cup of rice. Keeps everything nice and tight when it comes to regulation.
 
wesg49 said:
I had a very successful 3 months on LG and went from 199-179 on 2800 work day 1800 burn using +20/-20 on a 3 day split. I had 3 fasted cardio burn sessions a week too

I'm currently on week 3 of a 12 week test e with 4 week boladrol kickstart. I bumped workout days to 4 days total. My numbers are 3300 work day and 2300 (maintenance) on burn day. I wanted to get jacked on my first test e run but my stomach is losing what abs I discovered on my 3 month cut. I'm hoping it's just bola that's retaining water but idk. I read for lean bulk to do maintenance on burn days and +40 on work day. I am doing 2 days of fasted cardio still but my abs are slowly fading. Any suggestion on number change for lean bulk?
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Don't touch your calories IMO.
 
Frank Reynolds said:
Don't touch your calories IMO.
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Why do u say that? Because he's gonna grow, and then his +Calories will become his maintenance calories?
I'm just saying, cuz he's Eating the same Cals I am and he's 20lbs less ... Maybe not such a high jump on Calories
 
Vote4pedro said:
Why do u say that? Because he's gonna grow, and then his +Calories will become his maintenance calories?
I'm just saying, cuz he's Eating the same Cals I am and he's 20lbs less ... Maybe not such a high jump on Calories
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Because he only increased calories 750/day which is not all that much. If anything just drop the 4th high day for another low day, or make it a "medium day" then turn it back up to a high(build) day if progress slows.

He also is not even into the meat of the cycle yet. What fat/bloat he accumulated is done already, no sense in trimming calories now as he is going to catch up to calories anyway.

Just grow, don't worry about it now, stay tight on your diet, limit fat gain as best as possible, come off(PCT) HOLD YOUR NEW SIZE for a while before dieting, then address it down the road, and SLOWLY diet.

People tend to panic at the first sign fat gain(or even water gain) and trim back calories on cycle, which is counter productive unless you have grossly overshot calories. Also people tend to start dieting right after the cycle.. Hold your damn size for a while.
 
sounds good man. What i was thinking about doing because i love to eat. LoL. This will be be first test cycle so i cant wait until that kicks in full force and see what happens.
 
Frank Reynolds said:
Because he only increased calories 750/day which is not all that much. If anything just drop the 4th high day for another low day, or make it a "medium day" then turn it back up to a high(build) day if progress slows.

He also is not even into the meat of the cycle yet. What fat/bloat he accumulated is done already, no sense in trimming calories now as he is going to catch up to calories anyway.

Just grow, don't worry about it now, stay tight on your diet, limit fat gain as best as possible, come off(PCT) HOLD YOUR NEW SIZE for a while before dieting, then address it down the road, and SLOWLY diet.

People tend to panic at the first sign fat gain(or even water gain) and trim back calories on cycle, which is counter productive unless you have grossly overshot calories. Also people tend to start dieting right after the cycle.. Hold your damn size for a while.
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Touché. I know I've been a victim of that, while on cycle as soon as I went past 15% I freaked out ... Specially coming off cutting cycles ...

wesg49 said:
sounds good man. What i was thinking about doing because i love to eat. LoL. This will be be first test cycle so i cant wait until that kicks in full force and see what happens.
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Good luck bro
 
Vote4pedro said:
Touché. I know I've been a victim of that, while on cycle as soon as I went past 15% I freaked out ... Specially coming off cutting cycles ...

Good luck bro
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Its understandable. But by the time you are 15% the damage is done just keep pushing while keeping cals in line so you aren't gaining too fast and make a smaller increase in calories when needed

What people often do is scale back and try to lose the few lbs of fat they gained mid cycle and gains suffer.

Don't second guess yourself. Stick to your plan.
 
Frank Reynolds said:
Its understandable. But by the time you are 15% the damage is done just keep pushing while keeping cals in line so you aren't gaining too fast and make a smaller increase in calories when needed

What people often do is scale back and try to lose the few lbs of fat they gained mid cycle and gains suffer.

Don't second guess yourself. Stick to your plan.
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Good stuff man ... Thanks
 
Just wanted to say my first week of LGs has been going very well, not hungery, good workouts.

On the bus hitting the road for work right and will be doing my best to eat right and stick to my protocol.

I honestly am impressed, feel a little leaner already.
 
Quick question ... Starting my cut this week .. I posted diet and number and everything about 3 pages ago ... My question is easy tho

If I was to cut ... But I actually lift 5 days a week. Off (Th and Sunday)

Do I eat WO calories 5 days or pick the 3 heaviest/ hardest days and eat WO calories (high carbs) and Rest Calories (Low fat) the rest of the days, even tho in Working out ... Take in consideration I wanna cut ...


Screw it I'll post it again
24yrs old
200lbs
Bf% 15%
6 years lifting

Any advice from someone that run a cut cycle while working out as many days???

Note on off days I do light cardio like 20 mins on bike and heavy abs workout and it's usually all 45 mins long total
 

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fadi said:
How do you guys count fiber and sugar alcohol?
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This was discussed a few pages back actually ... The fiber part ... Just go back a few pages and ull see ... I think the end state was to count em how u always count em and stick to that, don't change it ... I don't count fiber, cuz I always go above my carbs by 20g anyways
 
So I train at 6:30 am... Can you help me out with time frames please. Wanna cut. Train fasted prefered
 
runner_79 said:
So I train at 6:30 am... Can you help me out with time frames please. Wanna cut. Train fasted prefered
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Cutting is determined by your chosen calorie intake/cardio routine. Just lowering calories is not a smart way to lose fat (the body needs to be forced into losing fat)
Schedule:
6:30 train
11:30-12:30 break-fast
3-4pm eat again if desired
7:30-8:00 last meal

Bcaa/Eaa's every 2 hours and/or in between meals.
I do this same protocol, xcept my workouts are at 7
 
Does anyone happen to have the url for the nifty website that allows you to input calories, select foods, the number of meals, and it plans it all out for you? Ive been searching but just cant find it
 
Lean Gains - Nutrition Basics -Use these for a starting point and K.I.S.S

I get a lot of people asking for help with the set ups on this. Sometimes I think people are just over analyzing this stuff to death even though a lot the attractiveness of it has to do with it being simpler to follow and more convenient.

General Lean Gain feeding pattern is 16 hours fasting and 8 ours of feeding in each day. In more general IF / standards you can break that up into different hourly patterns. Don't get wrapped up in it being exact, one or two hours either way is not going to hurt you. Eating 16 hours one day and only having one protein meal the night after won't hurt you either. Actually it is what is called ADF, or Alternate Day Fasting. Don't overthink this stuff. Make the feeding windows fit your needs if doing this as a lifestyle diet. I do well doing an 8 hour feed one day and a 2-4 hour feed on rest days. That is just how I like it but if I want to eat 8 hours on a cardio day I do.

Calories in protein and carbs are 4 per gram, 9 calories for fat grams.

Protein - You want about 1g of protein per lb of body weight unless overweight then start at about 3/4 your body weight.

Cutting - If trying to lose weight multiply your body weight x 12-13 and those will be your target calories. Cardio days 20-30% under target calories, Lifting days use target calories or 10% higher than target.

Recomp -Body Weight x13-14 Go 20% under on cardio / rest days and 20% over on lifting days.

Mass - If trying to gain mass it is body weight x14-15. Go 10% under on cardio / rest days and 20-30% higher on Lift days.

Carbs - As far as carbs and fat go you need to know if you are sensitive to carbs. If so then keep them low like 100 grams no training days and 150-200 grams on training days then get the rest of your calories from extra protein or fat.

Really that is about all you need to know to get a good start then you learn how your body responds and go from there.
 
MrKleen73 said:
I get a lot of people asking for help with the set ups on this. Sometimes I think people are just over analyzing this stuff to death even though a lot the attractiveness of it has to do with it being simpler to follow and more convenient.

General Lean Gain feeding pattern is 16 hours fasting and 8 ours of feeding in each day. In more general IF / standards you can break that up into different hourly patterns. Don't get wrapped up in it being exact, one or two hours either way is not going to hurt you. Eating 16 hours one day and only having one protein meal the night after won't hurt you either. Actually it is what is called ADF, or Alternate Day Fasting. Don't overthink this stuff. Make the feeding windows fit your needs if doing this as a lifestyle diet. I do well doing an 8 hour feed one day and a 2-4 hour feed on rest days. That is just how I like it but if I want to eat 8 hours on a cardio day I do.

Calories in protein and carbs are 4 per gram, 9 calories for fat grams.

Protein - You want about 1g of protein per lb of body weight unless overweight then start at about 3/4 your body weight.

Cutting - If trying to lose weight multiply your body weight x 12-13 and those will be your target calories. Cardio days 20-30% under target calories, Lifting days use target calories or 10% higher than target.

Recomp -Body Weight x13-14 Go 20% under on cardio / rest days and 20% over on lifting days.

Mass - If trying to gain mass it is body weight x14-15. Go 10% under on cardio / rest days and 20-30% higher on Lift days.

Carbs - As far as carbs and fat go you need to know if you are sensitive to carbs. If so then keep them low like 100 grams no training days and 150-200 grams on training days then get the rest of your calories from extra protein or fat.

Really that is about all you need to know to get a good start then you learn how your body responds and go from there.
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Yah, don't overthink it, it's lack of complication is one of the real perks to the eating style... enjoy it...
 
14-15 cals x bodyweight (+20%) is way too low for mass gaining IMO. Everyone is different though I guess.
 
MrKleen73 said:
I get a lot of people asking for help with the set ups on this. Sometimes I think people are just over analyzing this stuff to death even though a lot the attractiveness of it has to do with it being simpler to follow and more convenient.

General Lean Gain feeding pattern is 16 hours fasting and 8 ours of feeding in each day. In more general IF / standards you can break that up into different hourly patterns. Don't get wrapped up in it being exact, one or two hours either way is not going to hurt you. Eating 16 hours one day and only having one protein meal the night after won't hurt you either. Actually it is what is called ADF, or Alternate Day Fasting. Don't overthink this stuff. Make the feeding windows fit your needs if doing this as a lifestyle diet. I do well doing an 8 hour feed one day and a 2-4 hour feed on rest days. That is just how I like it but if I want to eat 8 hours on a cardio day I do.

Calories in protein and carbs are 4 per gram, 9 calories for fat grams.

Protein - You want about 1g of protein per lb of body weight unless overweight then start at about 3/4 your body weight.

Cutting - If trying to lose weight multiply your body weight x 12-13 and those will be your target calories. Cardio days 20-30% under target calories, Lifting days use target calories or 10% higher than target.

Recomp -Body Weight x13-14 Go 20% under on cardio / rest days and 20% over on lifting days.

Mass - If trying to gain mass it is body weight x14-15. Go 10% under on cardio / rest days and 20-30% higher on Lift days.

Carbs - As far as carbs and fat go you need to know if you are sensitive to carbs. If so then keep them low like 100 grams no training days and 150-200 grams on training days then get the rest of your calories from extra protein or fat.

Really that is about all you need to know to get a good start then you learn how your body responds and go from there.
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:goodpost:


As Kleen, our resident IF guru puts it, this diet can be tailored to your specific lifestyle and needs. Nothing is set in stone and things are very versatile with IF.
 
Castor87 said:
14-15 cals x bodyweight (+20%) is way too low for mass gaining IMO. Everyone is different though I guess.
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Actually that is about as high as I would ever go. I used that formula over the fall and gained quite a bit of weight (and some fat) with it. It out me at just over 3k per day which is more than enough on workout days to build muscle at my weight.

You could always add more Cal's that that if you wanted more weight, but it won't be more muscle, just more fat ;)
 
Castor87 said:
14-15 cals x bodyweight (+20%) is way too low for mass gaining IMO. Everyone is different though I guess.
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Just depends on who you are. If you are the average person who wants to add lean quality mass without any or much fat mass this is more than enough. Some people out there will need a lot more and others will need less. Personally I can do 13-14 for lean mass gains but my metabolism is more efficient than most. You also have to keep in mind the name of the game is lean gains. Martin prefers you stop bulking before you get up to 8-9%. Also there are the added in Meat days and Cheesecake challenge days for even more calories.

However you are very right there are some people that need 5-6000 cals a day but they already know that they have higher than normal metabolisms and should adjust any generalized recommendation. Same way that I know I need to have less calories than most people my size.

RickRock13 said:
Actually that is about as high as I would ever go. I used that formula over the fall and gained quite a bit of weight (and some fat) with it. It out me at just over 3k per day which is more than enough on workout days to build muscle at my weight.

You could always add more Cal's that that if you wanted more weight, but it won't be more muscle, just more fat ;)
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This is very likely but we do have to remember some people have those really high metabolisms. Look at Rosie for instance she weighs what 115 lbs (guessing) but needs around 4000 cals per day to maintain her weight and composition.
 
Plus we don't know the exact specifics on how demanding each persons weekly routine is. That could play a huge role in deciding the calories needed as well.
 
Exactly, everything is just a guideline or recommendation. For more detail pay a trainer to do it all for you otherwise some self knowledge through experimentation is required.

Some people like to add a caloric value to every single activity then add it all up to find out what the maintenance is off of that. For me maintenance is me staying the same doing everything I normally do in a week. In general my caloric needs don't change that much. I do the same things day in and day out I don't have to account for them just for what my body does with however much fuel I am giving it.

Two people 200 lbs 5'8 and 10% can have completely different needs even if they do the same exact activities daily simply due to metabolic rate.
 
bigbob21 said:
Cutting is determined by your chosen calorie intake/cardio routine. Just lowering calories is not a smart way to lose fat (the body needs to be forced into losing fat)
Schedule:
6:30 train
11:30-12:30 break-fast
3-4pm eat again if desired
7:30-8:00 last meal

Bcaa/Eaa's every 2 hours and/or in between meals.
I do this same protocol, xcept my workouts are at 7
Click to expand...

Did it yesterday those times. Went easy.
What is it in BCAAs that turn off hunger signals?
 
RickRock13 said:
:goodpost:


As Kleen, our resident IF guru puts it, this diet can be tailored to your specific lifestyle and needs. Nothing is set in stone and things are very versatile with IF.
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Absolutely!

~Rosie~
 
Loving leangains and IFing so far. Getting a lot of compliments in the gym. Ate bad so far this weekend so to roadtriping for work but keeping the faith.
 
EArch said:
Loving leangains and IFing so far. Getting a lot of compliments in the gym. Ate bad so far this weekend so to roadtriping for work but keeping the faith.
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It's definitely a great lifestyle nutritional method and easily adaptable for anyone :)

~Rosie~
 
Hey y'all. Im just starting IF, and I love salads. So my question is, what kind of dressings do you guys recommend? Fat free dressing? I'm used to the typical diet and have been using strictly olive oil and red wine vinegar for like 8 months and have had enough. I'm on about page 70 of this thread so I'm trying to catch up. Thanks a lot for making this thread absolutely love it!!
 
bean5er said:
Hey y'all. Im just starting IF, and I love salads. So my question is, what kind of dressings do you guys recommend? Fat free dressing? I'm used to the typical diet and have been using strictly olive oil and red wine vinegar for like 8 months and have had enough. I'm on about page 70 of this thread so I'm trying to catch up. Thanks a lot for making this thread absolutely love it!!
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Whatever dressing you want and can fit your calorie or macro goals.

I like Newman's low fat sesame ginger + sriracha.
 
Frank Reynolds said:
Whatever dressing you want and can fit your calorie or macro goals.

I like Newman's low fat sesame ginger + sriracha.
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Thanks Frank that's what I was gathering just thought I'd ask. That sounds good I'll be trying that for sure!
 
Frank Reynolds said:
Whatever dressing you want and can fit your calorie or macro goals.

I like Newman's low fat sesame ginger + sriracha.
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I use the same ****, love it with broccoli, rice and chicken all mixed up in a bowl

Newman's low fat honey mustard is pretty good too
Red wine vinegar

As long as its low calorie ... Freaks me out knowing a lb of lettuce is 80 calories and a tbl spoon of dressing can run up to the 300-400 calorie range
 
2-3 times a week this is what I eat ... The rest of the days I cook or are high fat days

2 - 12" Wheat, chicken strip sandwiches from Subway
2 - Chicken Burritos from Chipotle
2 - Scoops of Casein

And it's bomb!!!! Dont go past my Macros

How can u not like this Lifestyle while I can eat like that and my waist keeps getting smaller while my chest is out of control big this days
 
New to this web site and forum and I have just started IF. If you are willing to teach, I am willing to learn. I am only two days but initial thoughts are good so far. I have tried low carb with meals spread out throughout the day and timed based on recommendations. I’ve tried keto as well. First week was great but I struggled with carb ups. It was like the carb flood gate was opened and they were not always the best. But I did notice some differences in my body. I read more on IF and missing breakfast seemed ok since I have done it many times in the past. So here I am, day 2. I LOVE the larger meals. I am small 5’3” 135 ~11%. Various estimators put me at 2400 maintenance cals/day. I have to push the food to try and hit my daily calorie mark. Overall thoughts about diets in general are, they are not rocket science so just pay attention to your body and adjust fire if you are not getting the results you want. But the analytical military person in me still wants to ask some questions since I see some conflicting advice/opinions. Looking for personal experience!! I will fast from 630PM to 1130AM (18/6). I will work out from 500-615AM (normally trained fasted for past 10 years in the military). I do a push/pull/leg split 2x/wk with one day off. I am use to working out daily and I recover well for my next session. On shorter days I may throw in some HIIT (couple times a week). I am deployed so knowing my macros and calories are not easy to know so it is more of estimation here. Either way I am excited to try this. My ????
1) Some people may use BCAAs or pre-workout sups. Is this important or preference? My thought is that it will break the fast. Will that affect the fat loss?
2) Macro % can vary based on preference but is the key is to hit target (bulk or lean) calories during the 6-8 hour feed?
3) Are cycling macros and or calories important or a preference? What would be the benefit if one does?
4) Physiologically what is the difference in a 12 hour fast vs. 16-18 hour fast? Any studies or research?

Any thoughts recommendations are appreciated. Thanks!!!
 
Hey everyone, I am 5'9", 140lbs and will be starting leangains (again) this week. I want to put on lean mass using an upper/lower split, hitting the gym 3 - possibly 4 days per week. I'll be using the +500 kcal on training days and -500 kcal on off days. My question: I have and use a bodymedia device which is supposed to be +/- 10% accurate. Should I use the daily calorie burn from the BM as a baseline or start with the bodyweight x 15? I don't want to over think it, but I often think the BM overestimates my calorie burn. What would you do? Thanks!

EDIT: Also, do you all count the calories and protein from BCAA products like Xtend even though they are not listed on the nutritional info? I have been told I should. Again, I don't want to overthink this, but every calorie counts one way or the other.
 
I have to say, since starting, I've been craving food more. The good thing is that I can control myself and the short feeding window makes it difficult to over do it. Had 16oz lean steak, side of veggies, side of mustard potatoe salad, and two protein bars for my break fast meal Yesterday and I was STILL craving more food. Had to control the remainig meals.
 
I know that the bigger meals make it easier for me to overdo it because my stomach can handle more food. It makes buffet cheat meals fun but not the nights I'm not feeling full and want to be a total fatty. It's all about control and sometimes I fail at it and give in.
 
Yeah there is no magic to it the bottom line is alway cals in vs cals out. If you don't keep to your projected numbers most of the time then you will quickly realize how easy it is to over eat. I don't see too much wrong with occasionally have 24-40 oz of steak, especially if trying to add lean mass. Not saying do it often but sometimes it is good for the body and soul.
 
I was at the casino last week and when we ate at the buffet one night and also the next day for lunch I tore that ish up. I mean it was crazy how much I could eat and not feel full. Both times I had 3 FULL plates, 2 pieces of cake, and some gumbo. It was amazing!! I know I couldn't get away with that every day, but LG made it possible and it didn't seem to have any ill effects that were noticeable besides a bloated tummy.
 
forcefan27 said:
Hey everyone, I am 5'9", 140lbs and will be starting leangains (again) this week. I want to put on lean mass using an upper/lower split, hitting the gym 3 - possibly 4 days per week. I'll be using the +500 kcal on training days and -500 kcal on off days. My question: I have and use a bodymedia device which is supposed to be +/- 10% accurate. Should I use the daily calorie burn from the BM as a baseline or start with the bodyweight x 15? I don't want to over think it, but I often think the BM overestimates my calorie burn. What would you do? Thanks!

EDIT: Also, do you all count the calories and protein from BCAA products like Xtend even though they are not listed on the nutritional info? I have been told I should. Again, I don't want to overthink this, but every calorie counts one way or the other.
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i would onyl really worry abotu every littel small calorie if uw ere dieting fo a show , if ur bulking, dont worry about it, also go with whatever # u want and adjust form there, if ur not gaining add more, if ur ganiing too fast cut it down, pretty simple jsut takes time........im impatient myself lol
 
Yah I big, big feed once in a while can do you some real good in the metabolism department, especially if you have been doing low carb. Now I am more hesitant to go all out on lean gains cuz you get that if you're working the wd end by loading more nutrients so the big feed may not supply the same boost in metabolism.
 
Question, been experimenting with LG for a week now, stiil trying to find my sweet spot. My question is this, late in the day every day I have the ****zzzzz progressively worse each time, bloated upset stomach etc. I've tried eating slower. No avail. Could it be the BCAAs? Never had this problem with regular BB diet. Actually my trips reduced to one a day which is odd for me Might add lol. Just curious if I should just give it a couple weeks so my body can adjust or what. Thanks
 
I have a question bout carbs...
fat/weight loss related------------> if i do the 6:30am training and lunch at 1pm (1st meal ) protocol, would the massive gap between training (finish by 8:30am) and my first meal at 1pm to long to get in my CARB source (paleo-sweet potato) if wanting to lose fat/weight?

-Chris
 
bean5er said:
Question, been experimenting with LG for a week now, stiil trying to find my sweet spot. My question is this, late in the day every day I have the ****zzzzz progressively worse each time, bloated upset stomach etc. I've tried eating slower. No avail. Could it be the BCAAs? Never had this problem with regular BB diet. Actually my trips reduced to one a day which is odd for me Might add lol. Just curious if I should just give it a couple weeks so my body can adjust or what. Thanks
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Can't hurt, but I don't see how this would give u the ****zzz ... I did 8 meals a day for over 5 years and switched to IF one day and it has been heaven ever since ... I would look at the foods ur eating, change ur diet a bit

runner_79 said:
I have a question bout carbs...
fat/weight loss related------------> if i do the 6:30am training and lunch at 1pm (1st meal ) protocol, would the massive gap between training (finish by 8:30am) and my first meal at 1pm to long to get in my CARB source (paleo-sweet potato) if wanting to lose fat/weight?

-Chris
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1st Page on this thread bro, and on leangains web page all over it ... Is called early morning fasted training ... U need BCAAs ... Some like
10g of BCAAs pre work out 5-15 mins
0600 train
0800 - 10g 2 hours later
1000 -10g 2 hours later
1200 - first and biggest meal
8pm last meal begin fasting
Pretty simple
 
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