The Lean Gains / IF learning and Discussion Log

soontobbeast said:
alright ill try it.


i have about 5-6lbs to lose before i look awesome. its frustrating because i seem to be recomping on a small amount of calories.
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this will allow more calories on average than a normal recomp...I am eating recomp level and lost 7 lbs in the first 4 weeks... and gained a bit of muscle...
 
I started IF last week and so far so good. Im lower cals though...during week i am 2100 on weights days, saturdays i dont eat as clean and prob like 2800 and sunday some cheats im around 4k. its been working ok.

should add im 6foot1 like 203 lbs atm.

issues is sunday is an off day so imma gonna try to bring cals down and see if my son wants to switch breakfast day to saturdays after gym.

wed is my 2nd off day and im reading i can bring cals way down so gonna try that!

normally my eating window is like 1130-730 but gonna shoot for 2-7 on wed and see where it takes me.

this threads a great read!
 
Did I mention I am now gaining weight on Maintenance cals, while still leaning up a bit. Of course I am beta testing Taurus new progestin but I know it was asked how this worked on PH/DS/AAS runs. Right now I am gaining LBM to the point my weight has gone up 2-3 lbs while I look a bit leaner as well. That is day 13 on a mild PH.
 
MrKleen73 said:
Did I mention I am now gaining weight on Maintenance cals, while still leaning up a bit. Of course I am beta testing Taurus new progestin but I know it was asked how this worked on PH/DS/AAS runs. Right now I am gaining LBM to the point my weight has gone up 2-3 lbs while I look a bit leaner as well. That is day 13 on a mild PH.
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cant wait to see where my cycle takes me with it, im eating a ton of clean food.
 
MrKleen73 said:
Did I mention I am now gaining weight on Maintenance cals, while still leaning up a bit. Of course I am beta testing Taurus new progestin but I know it was asked how this worked on PH/DS/AAS runs. Right now I am gaining LBM to the point my weight has gone up 2-3 lbs while I look a bit leaner as well. That is day 13 on a mild PH.
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Yah I will be running something mild soon, when I figure out where I am competing...
 
How do you guys play it if you are going hiking or snowboarding or some other activity like that in the morning. Stick to the fast and risk having no energy or eat breakfast before and eat less later in the day?
 
adnscmplx said:
How do you guys play it if you are going hiking or snowboarding or some other activity like that in the morning. Stick to the fast and risk having no energy or eat breakfast before and eat less later in the day?
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On a cut, I would just wait until afterward to eat as I almost never feel a marked lack of energy during the day.

But on a maintenance routine or slow/lean bulk, I would most likely eat a small meal beforehand, especially if I had no idea when I would be around food again.

This preference is highly personal though -- I'm sure others here would eat beforehand even on a cut since plenty of LG advocates actually eat 1 meal a few hours before training anyways.

In essence, you'd be fine either way.
 
MrKleen73 said:
Did I mention I am now gaining weight on Maintenance cals, while still leaning up a bit. Of course I am beta testing Taurus new progestin but I know it was asked how this worked on PH/DS/AAS runs. Right now I am gaining LBM to the point my weight has gone up 2-3 lbs while I look a bit leaner as well. That is day 13 on a mild PH.
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That's great news Kleen! That's the kind of info I need to figure out how I am going to do things when I start my cycle. I'm looking mostly to add LBM, but I want to at the least maintain my BF at that time if not decrease it some. I know I will have to play with calories some to find the sweet spot, but somewhere around maintenance or slightly higher as an average is what I'm guessing.
 
I am just gettin started on the Lean Gains, day 4. How have people felt after the first few days? I have energy and feel fine, but I have this feeling of being tired in my face. It's that feeling of exhaustion you may get in your eyes after staying up/out too late, yet I am not tired.

Is this something others have experienced as their body adapts to the regiment? I am not worried, just curious.
 
p5sky said:
I am just gettin started on the Lean Gains, day 4. How have people felt after the first few days? I have energy and feel fine, but I have this feeling of being tired in my face. It's that feeling of exhaustion you may get in your eyes after staying up/out too late, yet I am not tired.

Is this something others have experienced as their body adapts to the regiment? I am not worried, just curious.
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I can't say I've ever had that type of feeling on Lean Gains, but it defenitely takes some getting used to it when you first start the diet. Eventually your body adapts to the diet change and it just becomes the normal way to eat for you. Hell I barely get hungry before breaking my fast anymore. Just give it a little time and this diet will be second nature to you! ;)
 
RickRock13 said:
I can't say I've ever had that type of feeling on Lean Gains, but it defenitely takes some getting used to it when you first start the diet. Eventually your body adapts to the diet change and it just becomes the normal way to eat for you. Hell I barely get hungry before breaking my fast anymore. Just give it a little time and this diet will be second nature to you! ;)
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I have no problem fasting to be honest. Unfortunately I just gave up on LG for the most part as I found it too inconvenient to follow with the foods I eat, my work schedule, and my workout schedule. I'm doing a more Layne Norton styled eating schedule now, which while it's spaced out throughout the day applies a vast majority of the same principles as LG. As a plus I don't have to modify my foods at all (just eat them at different hours)!
 
Red Dog said:
On a cut, I would just wait until afterward to eat as I almost never feel a marked lack of energy during the day.

But on a maintenance routine or slow/lean bulk, I would most likely eat a small meal beforehand, especially if I had no idea when I would be around food again.

This preference is highly personal though -- I'm sure others here would eat beforehand even on a cut since plenty of LG advocates actually eat 1 meal a few hours before training anyways.

In essence, you'd be fine either way.
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Thanks dude.

I'm cutting and went on a hike this morning (with a lady). I just sipped bcaas, ate a couple pieces of fruit, and had some vpx meltdown. It went well. Still not really hungry but am gonna feast for dinner.
 
Ok, so I just read through this entire thread from post #1. Got to say that the way I have been eating is similar to LG, without being strictly LG, if you know what I mean. Anyways, this week I tightened up my nutrition re the principles and methods that make up the "Rosie" diet (i.e. the amalgamation of nutritional methods and principles that I use), and in five days I have already lost 1.1% bodyfat (and 7.8 pounds - mostly food and water though, because of all the eating and less training I did last week) and there's still TWO days left until the week officially ends. The most bodyfat I have ever lost in a week was 1.2% - coincidentally, it was also the very first week I started looking into IF, and worked around that. Definitely refreshing, since I love food (Sean honestly couldn't believe it when he first realized that I was NOT sh*tting or exaggerating the amount of calories I consume!) and do not "diet", discovering that when I eat "good" as others deem "good" re clean and no cheating, I get the LEAST progress re fat loss (or anything, really, although my body generally perpetually recomps unless I am making a conscious attempt at fat loss). I always train fasted (well, have predominantly since retiring from cycling, unless I am doing 2-a-day training), so doing that is not an issue, and I actually feel the best when I do that. I used Nick's method re the double training (he was actually the one who made me consider using this as part of my nutritional methods, so thank you, Nick), so my fasting periods are not completely traditional in 16/8 or 12/8, etc., although I have ~12-16 hours every 24 hours (even if not in one block) when I am fasting or having only BCAAs. Anyways, a long ramble about a lot of nothing but something, really saying that LG (or modifications of it) is definitely a lifestyle nutrition plan that can be easily adhered to, and, as already mentioned throughout this thread, it doesn't have to be strictly followed, but can be adapted based on the individual, to get the best possible results for them.

~Rosie~
 
Does anyone here train fasted first thing in the am and then break the fast around midday?

My work schedule is about the change and it makes more sense for me to train fasted before work.

So the schedule will look like this,,,,, last meal at 8pm, sleep, wake up at 4:30 am, train 5:00-6:00 am with an intra/bcaa/peptopro supp, work at 7:00 am, bcaa or peptopro at 8am and 10am, and then break the fast a 12pm.

Thoughts?
 
SouthernLord said:
Does anyone here train fasted first thing in the am and then break the fast around midday?

My work schedule is about the change and it makes more sense for me to train fasted before work.

So the schedule will look like this,,,,, last meal at 8pm, sleep, wake up at 4:30 am, train 5:00-6:00 am with an intra/bcaa/peptopro supp, work at 7:00 am, bcaa or peptopro at 8am and 10am, and then break the fast a 12pm.

Thoughts?
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That looks like a solid plan to me buddy.
 
SouthernLord said:
Does anyone here train fasted first thing in the am and then break the fast around midday?

My work schedule is about the change and it makes more sense for me to train fasted before work.

So the schedule will look like this,,,,, last meal at 8pm, sleep, wake up at 4:30 am, train 5:00-6:00 am with an intra/bcaa/peptopro supp, work at 7:00 am, bcaa or peptopro at 8am and 10am, and then break the fast a 12pm.

Thoughts?
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I do this exactly. Works okay but expect to gorge yourself at noon.
 
I do the same with AM training and a big ass lunch.

Biggest plus of IF is feeling so full and satisfied off so few calories. Really amazing.
 
Few calories? WTF? I'm over 4k daily without trying.
 
SouthernLord said:
Does anyone here train fasted first thing in the am and then break the fast around midday?

My work schedule is about the change and it makes more sense for me to train fasted before work.

So the schedule will look like this,,,,, last meal at 8pm, sleep, wake up at 4:30 am, train 5:00-6:00 am with an intra/bcaa/peptopro supp, work at 7:00 am, bcaa or peptopro at 8am and 10am, and then break the fast a 12pm.

Thoughts?
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You just outlined what I have been doing for the last 2 months to a tee. Times and all. And it has been very successful for me!! :bigok:
 
RickRock13 said:
That's great news Kleen! That's the kind of info I need to figure out how I am going to do things when I start my cycle. I'm looking mostly to add LBM, but I want to at the least maintain my BF at that time if not decrease it some. I know I will have to play with calories some to find the sweet spot, but somewhere around maintenance or slightly higher as an average is what I'm guessing.
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So 12 days from last body fat reading. 199.5 lbs 9.5% > 200 lbs 8.4% 2.7 LBM gained 2.2 lbs fat loss blue print that log for your eating and your goals are set. I uninentionally went with a cyclical feeding. I would really over feed for 3 lift days in a week then clean it up more the next week, weekends were kind of high calories but over the top. Eat low on the burn days and let the fat just burn itself off.
SouthernLord said:
Does anyone here train fasted first thing in the am and then break the fast around midday?

My work schedule is about the change and it makes more sense for me to train fasted before work.

So the schedule will look like this,,,,, last meal at 8pm, sleep, wake up at 4:30 am, train 5:00-6:00 am with an intra/bcaa/peptopro supp, work at 7:00 am, bcaa or peptopro at 8am and 10am, and then break the fast a 12pm.

Thoughts?
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Looks ideal to me! Just what I have been doing.

DreamWeaver said:
I am eating for a recomp but getting cutting results on lean gains... I find it pretty damn easy..
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Ain't it groovy I mean almost 3 lbs of muscle gained in 12 days with 2 lbs of fat loss. That is awesome even being on a mild PH. I am big right now though. Holiday eating and all. I have filled up quite a bit since those Saturday morning readings.
 
MrKleen73 said:
So 12 days from last body fat reading. 199.5 lbs 9.5% > 200 lbs 8.4% 2.7 LBM gained 2.2 lbs fat loss blue print that log for your eating and your goals are set. I uninentionally went with a cyclical feeding. I would really over feed for 3 lift days in a week then clean it up more the next week, weekends were kind of high calories but over the top. Eat low on the burn days and let the fat just burn itself off.
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I will do that. That's exactly what I would like to replicate on cycle.
 
freezito said:
This way of eating works for almost anything u want to do! Cut, comp or bulk! Just roll with it baby
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I believe so! But take care on something...

Someone looking for massive bulk seasons this is not feasible, even someone that allow your body in some sporadic season to eat like 4-5 times day, reducing the fast for only 12h still work very good. ;)
 
EasyEJL said:
I don't see it being hard to take in 4000-4500 calories in the 8 hour window.
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I don't see it being difficult either. I mean I can easily take in 2k+ just in the fast breaking meal.
 
EasyEJL said:
I don't see it being hard to take in 4000-4500 calories in the 8 hour window.
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Absolutely. I can (and often) do that in a single meal - and I did on Saturday night! :jaw:

~Rosie~
 
I don't say it is hard. I love IF, one year following it gives me that result.

When someone want to increase results he will need more slin for that, as is the more anabolic hormone of the body. Is no new for anyone here. What i meant to say was, sporadic shorting on the fast period will benefit for more insulin liberation that can lead to more muscle, and if not careful to more fat. I'm talking about optimization, but i'm a high frequency trainee so maybe this make things different.

I make an home made "gluten-free" pizza saturday, that have at leat 3k calorie of no junk food. This was my first meal of the day that i can eat without problems, so believe eating is not a problem for me!

---PS: addition the recipe

Crust: 200g almond flour, 80g shredded cheese low fat, 30g coconut oil, pinch of salt, 2 eggs. Goes to oven until good texture.

Topping: 250g tuna, 100g shrimp, 200g tomato, oregano, salt, garlic, 50g shredded cheese.

i think i don't forgot nothing, but after these i still ingest 3 muffins gluten free too lol
 
MrKleen73 said:
Ain't it groovy I mean almost 3 lbs of muscle gained in 12 days with 2 lbs of fat loss. That is awesome even being on a mild PH. I am big right now though. Holiday eating and all. I have filled up quite a bit since those Saturday morning readings.
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I am dropping fat faster than I ever have and it's just plain simple. When I start the EPI-V I may just add a couple hundred cals on wd's (all protein likely). Hek if I opt for the worlds in December I may be able to squeeze in a lean bulker!! What kind of calories would I have to shovel in then!! :scared:
 
DreamWeaver said:
I am dropping fat faster than I ever have and it's just plain simple. When I start the EPI-V I may just add a couple hundred cals on wd's (all protein likely). Hek if I opt for the worlds in December I may be able to squeeze in a lean bulker!! What kind of calories would I have to shovel in then!! :scared:
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I can't wait to see how lean you end up... When is your plan to start the EPI-V?
 
Interesting Sik, hadn't thought of it in that way. So you think that the added meals will allow for more insulin to build muscle. However did you consider the difference in insulin sensitivity, or the fact that glucagon increases lipolsys during the fast while also increasing the insulin sensitivity in skeletal muscle? To remove exposure of the muscle cells to the glucagon for extended periods would lower insulin sensitivity or keep it from being as elevated as it would be with the 16 hour fast. Also, the more time that blood sugar is floating around increasing insulin production would also lower insulin sensitivity. So I am not sure that there would be any benefit to removing 4 hours from the fasting window if Lean Gains is the goal as opposed to just gains on the scale.

I don't have the intention of ever "Bulking" again. Once I hit a nice lean level I will be "lean gaining" up to the size I am looking for then switching to recomp to build the muscle up while leaning out at the same weight.

Now if on a cycle or something that is different. I expect to gain with the speed of a bulk however not gain fat, as I am doing now.

Not saying you are incorrect either. A year of eating this way you should have some insight into this for sure. However from what I know and understand about how the body deals with the fast, and refeed. As well as what hormonal changes come along with or drive that situation and I can't really see how it would benefit body composition or the ability to grow muscle if the only factor being changed was using a 12 hour fast and 12 hour feed window.
 
ScottyDoc said:
Sounds good Brotha, be sure to send me that link and I will be SUBd from day one!!!
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Oh yah you will get advanced warning lol I like to plan ahead and will have all my ducks in a row at least a week ahead of time if not more...
 
DreamWeaver said:
Oh yah you will get advanced warning lol I like to plan ahead and will have all my ducks in a row at least a week ahead of time if not more...
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Awesome Bro... as always, You da MAN!
 
MrKleen73 said:
Interesting Sik, hadn't thought of it in that way. So you think that the added meals will allow for more insulin to build muscle. However did you consider the difference in insulin sensitivity, or the fact that glucagon increases lipolsys during the fast while also increasing the insulin sensitivity in skeletal muscle? To remove exposure of the muscle cells to the glucagon for extended periods would lower insulin sensitivity or keep it from being as elevated as it would be with the 16 hour fast. Also, the more time that blood sugar is floating around increasing insulin production would also lower insulin sensitivity. So I am not sure that there would be any benefit to removing 4 hours from the fasting window if Lean Gains is the goal as opposed to just gains on the scale.
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Yes i consider differences in insulin sensitivity. You can increase the sensitivity through weight trainning, calories/carb cycling, etc and through fasting. What i'm saying is that sometimes will be better to use an example of 4 meals a day, with only 12h fast instead of overeating in REAL CLEAN food.

If someone follow this, low in nuts, and only clean food is not so easy to add "lean gains" along sometime. I like to be in this way honestly, but to see some "big changes" sometimes i can change a little the schedule. I'm talking about increasing one meal a day, about 500-600kcal only for 4-6 weeks. This will not lower enough your insulin sensitivity, you CAN EVEN benefit from long term you've fasting 16/8. This is not documented, its bases on what i've seen.

Even when i knoe someone with this approach, using any anabolic compound i'm the first to tell them to increase the number of meals, at least one more meal with carbs.

I believe my 16/8 protocol is light trainning twice a day. First "train" is fast, feed. Second train is with weights and BIGGER meal. Probably sound stupid, but i'm only explaining the body working well with catabolic/anabolic rebound.

But i'm a HFT lover, so the increase in ONE meal day, will allow me probable to WO twice a day for something like 4-6 weeks, with some results.

MrKleen73 said:
I don't have the intention of ever "Bulking" again. Once I hit a nice lean level I will be "lean gaining" up to the size I am looking for then switching to recomp to build the muscle up while leaning out at the same weight.
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I understand that, believe me as i lost 40kg along this years, in a big learning curve i'm not looking for the term bulk. Is only an approach like saying "ok i can eat MC donalds 3x week, i'm bulking". i correct, bull****ing :D

MrKleen73 said:
Now if on a cycle or something that is different. I expect to gain with the speed of a bulk however not gain fat, as I am doing now.
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Correct, this was what i intend to add to this thread! We are synchronized.

MrKleen73 said:
Not saying you are incorrect either. A year of eating this way you should have some insight into this for sure. However from what I know and understand about how the body deals with the fast, and refeed. As well as what hormonal changes come along with or drive that situation and I can't really see how it would benefit body composition or the ability to grow muscle if the only factor being changed was using a 12 hour fast and 12 hour feed window.
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I believe it can make a difference. Even if you INCREASE the fast for 36h, ADF, and do a BIGGER calorie day on the refeeding day you can work 3 day like, half period fast, half period eat train eat.

I'm not saying you do that, but i know people who use th eIF approach as an excuse to eat like crap. If they are eating like i eat, veg, eggs, not so many nuts, and little carbs (even with IF i can not handle a lot), it becames more difficult to increase the calories/carbs without the sleepy feeling.

I tried sometime ago, "blast" phases where i just increase my carb intake for 100g, more protein too, and add it as a 1st meal of the day. It worked fine, scale moved quicker, don't see fat gains, but i'm carbophobic.

Again, this is not documented with science neither craved in stone, just my opinion.

I founf that even Chad Waterburry, i trainer that i respect, use a similar approach so i think maybe he thinks the same, assuming that.
 
Good responses man! I love this type of discussion. I have actually though of only doing two large meals about 12 hours apart too. That would be one large meal just after my lift and another one at dinner time. However right now everything is going so easy I am just keeping things the way they are for now.

I definitely eat more loosely than I used to but I wouldn't say I go overboard on junk food or anything like that but if I want it and have calories available and it won't hurt my protein intake then I will have some unclean food and don't feel guilty about it at all. I clean myself up immediately if something doesn't look right with my physique.
 
Your idea looks like the "warrior diet".

I knoe a lot of feedback with excellent results! nevertheless i tend to "under"-eat, so this is why i follow normally 16/8.

I'm glad too, to know that this lifestyle is becaming more popular!
 
I have one real quick, kinda dumb question.

Do you guys take fish oil caps during your morning fast (like normal AM/PM vitamins, supps, etc) or do you just double up in the PM? Splitting hairs, I know, but I thought I would ask.
 
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