The Lean Gains / IF learning and Discussion Log

[EasyEJL]

So i've got an IF question that I need a non-judgemental answer on I moderately often (2-3 times a week) have a couple of glasses of wine or a few beers in the evening. They come after the end of my normal feeding window of 12-8 though. So the question is should I start my feed later the following day to make for a 16 hour fast? or should I start eating later on the day I expect to have a few drinks so that its still an 8 hour window? or any other suggestions

 

[Milas]

Milas, he can easily lose weight by guestimating IF HE HAS SOME IDEA ALREADY OFWHAT HE TAKES IN A DAY. Not yelling at you there, more stressing to others reading this that is the only way estimation works successfully. I can estimate my calories with pretty good success by keeping a basic tally in my head of grams of protein and what not. However I have been doing it long enough to know what a serving of this, or a serving of that contains and looks like. I can go over or under but the overall trend works just fine for leaning up without any obsession over accurate intakes. It is definitely what is required for continual success once in the lower levels of body fat and when trying to gain LBM without adding fat once already lean. However in the general weight loss / recomp situation for most people the estimations if based off of true familiarity with the nutrients in the food eaten is going to yeild great results.

Xigot, If you are taking in 2000 a day as a starting point I would try 1250 and 2500 for a starting point give it 2 weeks and see what adjustments you think you need.

Right, not everyone is going to track calories or food daily, but if you're just starting out and guess a double quarter pounder is 200-300 calories, you're going to be way off!

I think a lot of folks would be surprised by the caloric content of normal food. When I spout off to "normal" people, they're amazed at how much they actually eat. Those who actually MAKE changes write down what they eat for a few days to see where they are "normally." From there you adjust. If you're working from a moving baseline, what adjustments do you make? Eat less, move more?

I agree though, once you're comfortable and making progress guesstimating is the likely approach people will take. Even vets can get surprised at times though when they slack off a bit...

 

[DreamWeaver]

Right, not everyone is going to track calories or food daily, but if you're just starting out and guess a double quarter pounder is 200-300 calories, you're going to be way off!

I think a lot of folks would be surprised by the caloric content of normal food. When I spout off to "normal" people, they're amazed at how much they actually eat. Those who actually MAKE changes write down what they eat for a few days to see where they are "normally." From there you adjust. If you're working from a moving baseline, what adjustments do you make? Eat less, move more?

I agree though, once you're comfortable and making progress guesstimating is the likely approach people will take. Even vets can get surprised at times though when they slack off a bit...

I am counting cuz it's easy enough with fitday... I like to plan and see how much I can squeeze in. I know how to guestimate too but I can get a lot out of manipulating my diet to get some extra goodies in here and there...

 

[Milas]

I am counting cuz it's easy enough with fitday... I like to plan and see how much I can squeeze in. I know how to guestimate too but I can get a lot out of manipulating my diet to get some extra goodies in here and there...

I'm the same as you!

 

[MrKleen73]

Right, not everyone is going to track calories or food daily, but if you're just starting out and guess a double quarter pounder is 200-300 calories, you're going to be way off!

I think a lot of folks would be surprised by the caloric content of normal food. When I spout off to "normal" people, they're amazed at how much they actually eat. Those who actually MAKE changes write down what they eat for a few days to see where they are "normally." From there you adjust. If you're working from a moving baseline, what adjustments do you make? Eat less, move more?

I agree though, once you're comfortable and making progress guesstimating is the likely approach people will take. Even vets can get surprised at times though when they slack off a bit...

Amen! I have done that before. Normally though I know I am slacking on my food choices then things pile up and I am getting soft before i know it and have to curb the food choices. However like we both agree on a person must KNOW the food before estimation can be done. Now I do think the person counting at all times will be able to acheive their goals more quickly. However I truly enjoy having the freedom of knowing that estimating works better with the IF approach of eating for me than a typical diet.

Oh and yeah you aint kidding thinking a burger has 300 cals is way off. I think a whopper is listed as having 30 grams of fat alone that is 270 cals not including protein or carbs.

 

[MrKleen73]

You know I say i don't track but you can ask me on most days what I have had to eat and even though I haven't weighed everything out I know what I have eaten. I also know a very good estimate, within an ounce above or below on the meats. Part of that is due to convenient eating the other is due to me eating many of the same foods over and over. I like to get a lot of my protein from chicken breast, 7p, 1.5 f per Oz, Salmon 7p and 3-5g fat per oz, Lean Beef Bottom ROund fat trimmed, 7p 1.5-2 f, protein powder 1 scoop 23p, 2.5f, 3c. Tuna, 26p 1.5 f per can.

I guess I shouldn't give the impression that my estimating is not done off of specifics as it is. I am only estimating the exact weight of the foods. That and when i have mixed foods that others prepare I can only estimate at that point.

 

[DreamWeaver]

You know I say i don't track but you can ask me on most days what I have had to eat and even though I haven't weighed everything out I know what I have eaten. I also know a very good estimate, within an ounce above or below on the meats. Part of that is due to convenient eating the other is due to me eating many of the same foods over and over. I like to get a lot of my protein from chicken breast, 7p, 1.5 f per Oz, Salmon 7p and 3-5g fat per oz, Lean Beef Bottom ROund fat trimmed, 7p 1.5-2 f, protein powder 1 scoop 23p, 2.5f, 3c. Tuna, 26p 1.5 f per can.

I guess I shouldn't give the impression that my estimating is not done off of specifics as it is. I am only estimating the exact weight of the foods. That and when i have mixed foods that others prepare I can only estimate at that point.

Yah I knew that, and my situation is very different, plus I am having fun with it... I know my estimation can be out by 100 cals or so and that is 1/2 cup of frozen yogurt... :stooges:

 

[Milas]

You know I say i don't track but you can ask me on most days what I have had to eat and even though I haven't weighed everything out I know what I have eaten. I also know a very good estimate, within an ounce above or below on the meats. Part of that is due to convenient eating the other is due to me eating many of the same foods over and over. I like to get a lot of my protein from chicken breast, 7p, 1.5 f per Oz, Salmon 7p and 3-5g fat per oz, Lean Beef Bottom ROund fat trimmed, 7p 1.5-2 f, protein powder 1 scoop 23p, 2.5f, 3c. Tuna, 26p 1.5 f per can.

I guess I shouldn't give the impression that my estimating is not done off of specifics as it is. I am only estimating the exact weight of the foods. That and when i have mixed foods that others prepare I can only estimate at that point.

Yep, I'm with you on that! Same here, though I do love to weigh stuff on my nutrition scales from time to time!

 

[MrKleen73]

Yep, I'm with you on that! Same here, though I do love to weigh stuff on my nutrition scales from time to time!

For sure. You have to recalibrate so to speak. Even a doctors triple beam scale needs to be recalibrated every once in a while so do our "eyeballing" scales. That and when i get a cut of meat I am not familiar with I will drop the cut of meat on the scale before cooking it. Then I cut it accordingly when cooked. However the meats I get from Sam's are all cut pretty uniformly. In general the round bottom steaks are 8-9 oz without fail. After 10 or so trays of them you just get to know it and the ones that don't fit into that range are visually obvious and get weighed. I love to hit up a lb of round steak for a fast breaking meal too!!!! Yeah I know it is tough meat but I season it and put tenderizer and marinade on it then I beat the hell out of it before I put it in the freezer. Then pull it out let thow slowly and toss it on the foreman grill.

 

[freezito]

i dont know if ive ever been so excited about a way of eating as this in my life. I actually understand what people are talking about here. I also think this is something I can actually handle and it fits my schedule! Man Im pumped

 

[DreamWeaver]

i dont know if ive ever been so excited about a way of eating as this in my life. I actually understand what people are talking about here. I also think this is something I can actually handle and it fits my schedule! Man Im pumped

Wait till you see the results...:veryhappy:

 

[freezito]

Man I can feel them already, lol! im doing lots of reading, looking at as many logs as I can and writing the important stuff down and figuring it all out and how it will best suit me

 

[morry]

Yep, I'm with you on that! Same here, though I do love to weigh stuff on my nutrition scales from time to time!

For sure. You have to recalibrate so to speak. Even a doctors triple beam scale needs to be recalibrated every once in a while so do our "eyeballing" scales. That and when i get a cut of meat I am not familiar with I will drop the cut of meat on the scale before cooking it. Then I cut it accordingly when cooked. However the meats I get from Sam's are all cut pretty uniformly. In general the round bottom steaks are 8-9 oz without fail. After 10 or so trays of them you just get to know it and the ones that don't fit into that range are visually obvious and get weighed. I love to hit up a lb of round steak for a fast breaking meal too!!!! Yeah I know it is tough meat but I season it and put tenderizer and marinade on it then I beat the hell out of it before I put it in the freezer. Then pull it out let thow slowly and toss it on the foreman grill.

Yep, I'm with you on that! Same here, though I do love to weigh stuff on my nutrition scales from time to time!

For sure. You have to recalibrate so to speak. Even a doctors triple beam scale needs to be recalibrated every once in a while so do our "eyeballing" scales. That and when i get a cut of meat I am not familiar with I will drop the cut of meat on the scale before cooking it. Then I cut it accordingly when cooked. However the meats I get from Sam's are all cut pretty uniformly. In general the round bottom steaks are 8-9 oz without fail. After 10 or so trays of them you just get to know it and the ones that don't fit into that range are visually obvious and get weighed. I love to hit up a lb of round steak for a fast breaking meal too!!!! Yeah I know it is tough meat but I season it and put tenderizer and marinade on it then I beat the hell out of it before I put it in the freezer. Then pull it out let thow slowly and toss it on the foreman grill.

I'm the same way. Having been a chef I got to where I could eye ball and "feel" oz weights and what not. I don't count cals, but if u ask me, ill be Damn close.
This is a good, easy to understand way to approach a recomp as well bc exactness isn't necessary due to the heavy lifting. Get into the ballpark with cals, know your macros and get them from healthy sources and you are well on your way to shredding IMO.

Oh yeah........foremans FTFW!!!

 

[Sik]

Wait until you add SD to the fasting (J/k)

 

[MrKleen73]

Wait until you add SD to the fasting (J/k)

No way you would do SD as a pulse for this for sure!!!! Only on lift days. Well that is what I would do if I were going to push that heavy or hard again. I am done with really harsh orals though. I am about to run a mild progesterone with it so we shall see just what happens there.

 

[Red Dog]

So i've got an IF question that I need a non-judgemental answer on I moderately often (2-3 times a week) have a couple of glasses of wine or a few beers in the evening. They come after the end of my normal feeding window of 12-8 though. So the question is should I start my feed later the following day to make for a 16 hour fast? or should I start eating later on the day I expect to have a few drinks so that its still an 8 hour window? or any other suggestions

I know that limiting alcohol to once per week is suggested for ideal fat loss as the outlines for your macros are pretty different for that day -- just for what it's worth. Here is his blog on alcohol and mitigating fat accumulation: Invalid Link Removed

**You can read a ton about it there as his recommendations are supported with heavy detail. In essence, he suggests high protein (a lot) and low fat/carb the day you choose to drink -- and that it should occur on a rest day.

Back to your question, I've seen him respond to similar questions by saying you should still start your feeding window at your regular time, even if it does shorten the 16 hour time frame. If it's doable, you could probably drink a bit earlier (30-60 min) or starting your feed a bit later (30-60 min) the next day in order to work your way back to normal though.

I believe his rationale has to do with the regulation of ghrelin (and possibly other hormones) and the body's tendency to feel hungry at roughly the same time every day (before the feed window). Keeping the start time the same is supposed to reinforce that concept.

 

[Resolve]

Easy, I have a couple drinks throughout the week. Right now, it's frankly necessary to just keep me sane and let me relax. Ain't nobody taking away my Guinness and St. Arnolds right now - I'll kill ya.

I just do pretty much what Red Dog says: I replace the fats and carbs with alcohol. I actually didn't know this was what LG suggested - I was just going by what my crazy logic would dictate.

 

[EasyEJL]

Yeah, my isssue isn't so much about the calories as that the drinking goes past 8pm when I should end feeding. I guess I could shift to diet dr pepper and sailor jerry, at least it minimizes the calories then

 

[MrKleen73]

Sailor Jerry FTW!!!!! If you like off brands that are as good or better than the stuff they mimic and you are a fan of Crown Royal or Crown Royal Reserve then you have to try Forty Creek, the regular stuff is better than the Crown Royal Reserve, and is about 2 dollars less per 5th than regular crown. So better than Crown Reserve but 2$ cheaper than regular Crown very worth trying.

I tend to try to drink spirits when I drink anyway. However one thing to consider is honestly if you are not competing is it going to trouble you that much to have an extra drink after your fast ends? Probably not too much. If the meal is of decent size it would be silly to think that the food you ate an hour or so ago is done digesting, or leaking nutrients into the body. The alchohal will process faster because the body sees the acetate as a poison that needs to be processed quickly so it shouldn't effect that much. Just be safer on it. Alternatively if you are doing that 3-4 nights a week then yeah change your hours on your fasting. Fast until 2 and then eat until 10, top the night off with by shotgunning a beer, slamming 2 shots and a couple scoops of protein powder.

 

[Resolve]

Yeah, my isssue isn't so much about the calories as that the drinking goes past 8pm when I should end feeding. I guess I could shift to diet dr pepper and sailor jerry, at least it minimizes the calories then

yeah man, just shift your eating window to later in the day a bit. LG originally was supposed to be fasting until 4pm and eating until midnight, which allows for such splurges a bit better than an earlier cutoff time.

 

[EasyEJL]

The downside to shifting my window that far is that I can only get to the gym at 7am, so not eating till 4 would be 8 hours still fasted post workout. Maybe 2pm would work though thru 10.

 

[Resolve]

The downside to shifting my window that far is that I can only get to the gym at 7am, so not eating till 4 would be 8 hours still fasted post workout. Maybe 2pm would work though thru 10.

I would be a total mess if I did that. No food post-workout makes me incredibly irritable and anxious real quick.

Hmmm...

Are you open to the idea of drinking in the morning? Could make your commute more tolerable

Seriously though, I'd do a decent post-workout shake with some berries or something, then fast until later in the day.

 

[EasyEJL]

I'm not doing too badly going till 12, ill try to see if going till 2 works

 

[MrKleen73]

I'm not doing too badly going till 12, ill try to see if going till 2 works

Initial hunger will hit but it only sticks around for maybe 20 minutes max and then goes away for several hours again. If you can just distract yourself during those times it wont be so bad just make yourself think about something other than being hungry and the next thing you know you your aren't hungry any more. I originally thought I would have a lot of trouble waiting until Noon and I workout at 4:30, I just take aminos at 4:15, 6:30, then ever 2.5 or so hours untilI eat at noon or sometimes 1:00 it just depends. It is working well for me. However if it doesn't suit you then a 40-50 grams protein and 50g carbs meal or shake post workout and then begin your feeding window later. May even enable you to start really feeding at 2 or even 4pm.

 

[RickRock13]

Initial hunger will hit but it only sticks around for maybe 20 minutes max and then goes away for several hours again. If you can just distract yourself during those times it wont be so bad just make yourself think about something other than being hungry and the next thing you know you your aren't hungry any more. I originally thought I would have a lot of trouble waiting until Noon and I workout at 4:30, I just take aminos at 4:15, 6:30, then ever 2.5 or so hours untilI eat at noon or sometimes 1:00 it just depends. It is working well for me. However if it doesn't suit you then a 40-50 grams protein and 50g carbs meal or shake post workout and then begin your feeding window later. May even enable you to start really feeding at 2 or even 4pm.

Yeh I have found that shortening my feeding window is not as bad as I thought it would be. I tried it out on my last cardio day and it was easy. I just broke my fast an hour later and ended my feeding an hour earlier. 6 hour window was cake and I will probably do it more often

 

[JohnRock]

Yeh I have found that shortening my feeding window is not as bad as I thought it would be. I tried it out on my last cardio day and it was easy. I just broke my fast an hour later and ended my feeding an hour earlier. 6 hour window was cake and I will probably do it more often

I shorten mine all the time. Some days, there's just no other option because I'm too busy or on rare occasions, I'll hit my calorie goal before my time is up, so I just stop then.

 

[freezito]

Hmmm interesting

 

[MrKleen73]

Yeh I have found that shortening my feeding window is not as bad as I thought it would be. I tried it out on my last cardio day and it was easy. I just broke my fast an hour later and ended my feeding an hour earlier. 6 hour window was cake and I will probably do it more often

I shorten mine all the time. Some days, there's just no other option because I'm too busy or on rare occasions, I'll hit my calorie goal before my time is up, so I just stop then.

Absolutely Gentlemen! I agree completely. I have no need for the full 8 hour window on most of my rest days. I feel after yesterday I hit the money train with the big 1000 + calorie lunch then having a small meal later in the day. I went about 200 cals over my planned 1500 because I made the family some grilled cheese sandwiches and decided one wouldn't hurt me. Guess what it didn't. However that big meal kept me squared away until about 7 then I had a shake and then the sandwich. Today is an eat day and I am gonna cram in some quality foods today. I am getting ready to do some deads in the garage then wake the wife up to go finish legs of at the gym. I will break my fast after the workout and then it is on!

 

[JohnRock]

Just finished my sprints this morning and I'm enjoying a delicious shake of coconut milk, oats, vanilla whey, and banana totaling around 1200 calories.

 

[MrKleen73]

Just finished my sprints this morning and I'm enjoying a delicious shake of coconut milk, oats, vanilla whey, and banana totaling around 1200 calories.

Nice! That sounds amazing too!

 

[JudoJosh]

Just finished my sprints this morning and I'm enjoying a delicious shake of coconut milk, oats, vanilla whey, and banana totaling around 1200 calories.

My fav is a cup of coconut milk, tbsp coconut oil, cup blueberries and some vanilla protein (egg, whey, or cassein) It is amazing! I also use pineapples sometimes instead of blueberries for sort of a pina colada twist

 

[RickRock13]

I shorten mine all the time. Some days, there's just no other option because I'm too busy or on rare occasions, I'll hit my calorie goal before my time is up, so I just stop then.

I'm kinda in the same boat and I actually like doing a shortened window on the rest days. The caloric goal is much smaller than training days so its easy to hit that target early

 

[xigotmailx]

Do you track your calories to know you're at 2K, or do you guesstimate? If you track, what did you eat today?

Morning - Before work
2 Yougurt - 200 cal, 10 pro, 38 carb, 0 fat
Protein Shake - 140 cal, 27 pro, 3 carb, 0 fat
Fish Oil
Multi-V

Snack 1
Peanut Butter & Banana *1/2* - 173 cal, 8 pro, 21 carb, 9 fat

Lunch
Peanut Butter & Banana *1/2* - 172 cal, 8 pro, 21 carb, 9 fat
Protein Shake - 140 cal, 27 pro, 3 carb, 0 fat

Snack 2
Peanut Butter & Banana *1/2* - 172 cal, 8 pro, 21 carb, 9 fat

Snack 3
Peanut Butter & Banana *1/2* - 173 cal, 8 pro, 21 carb, 9 fat

PWO
Protein Shake - 280 cal, 54 pro, 6 carb, 0 fat

1250 Calories, 140g Protein, 90g Carbs, 36g Fat
This is before dinner, where I eat some chicken, turkey, tuna, lean type of meat with veggies

I eat the same thing everyday, now if I were to put this into IF how would you all recommend that to look?

 

[Torobestia]

Where do you guys get your numbers (calories) for what you should take in on a training day vs. a non-training day? I am sure this is goal dependent (LG, recomp, cut), and I'm interested in all 3. I tried to find this info on LG but I'm coming up short. If someone could hook me up with a link I'd appreciate it, or if they could put an answer for those 3 goals that'd be great, too.

On another note, is one still trying to hit say around 1.2-1.5 g protein/lb on IF?

During the fasting period, I read in here (Anabolicminds.com) people drank BCAAs, but on the LG site it seems to suggest you're straight up fasting, not eating anything except the occasional diet coke, coffee, or whatever. The exception would be if you train in the A.M. Is this true, i.e. if I train in the evening (5pm) does that I mean I would go from wake to about 12-2pm without drinking anything, or would I sip on BCAAs in the meantime?

Lastly (this is more of a poll-type question more than anything), anybody else here use IF and not take in a lot of carbs pre-workout, but still take in a decent overall amount of carbs (if you train in the A.M., don't answer this)? I ask because in a way, I'm not carb sensitive. That is, I operate well taking in over 100g carbs a day, which I guess is still low. However, I have experimented with eating carbs throughout various meals in the day before my afternoon workout, and I've experienced ZERO benefit from this. In fact, I usually will put on fat or lose less fat if I substitute fats in my pre-workout meals with carbs. Anybody else like this?

That's all, and thanks for any help.

 

[Red Dog]

Where do you guys get your numbers (calories) for what you should take in on a training day vs. a non-training day? I am sure this is goal dependent (LG, recomp, cut), and I'm interested in all 3. I tried to find this info on LG but I'm coming up short. If someone could hook me up with a link I'd appreciate it, or if they could put an answer for those 3 goals that'd be great, too.

He doesn't put out specific numbers or calories because he's "saving it for the book" -- but who knows when that will finally come out. The only real suggestions I've come across are to determine what your resting expenditure is and then adjust from there based on your goals.

I think LG is +20% calories on training days and -20% calories on rest days. From there you can adjust the calories if you wanted to focus more on bulking or cutting. Again, sorry I can't give specific calorie totals but I really don't ever see them proposed on LG.

On another note, is one still trying to hit say around 1.2-1.5 g protein/lb on IF?

Yeah, MB always emphasizes it. The philosophy on a cut is that out of two diets equal in calorie content, the one with more protein will result in less fat storage. MB has the study somewhere on his blog; it might be linked from the 'alcohol damage control' post.

I usually end up right about 1g/1lb bodyweight; slightly more on training days.

During the fasting period, I read in here (Anabolicminds.com) people drank BCAAs, but on the LG site it seems to suggest you're straight up fasting, not eating anything except the occasional diet coke, coffee, or whatever. The exception would be if you train in the A.M. Is this true, i.e. if I train in the evening (5pm) does that I mean I would go from wake to about 12-2pm without drinking anything, or would I sip on BCAAs in the meantime?

I don't use BCAAs except for immediately pre-cardio and pre-workout (both of which come right before my FIRST meal). Some guys on here use BCAAs throughout the day, although I've had substantial success without utilizing them so frequently.

Lastly (this is more of a poll-type question more than anything), anybody else here use IF and not take in a lot of carbs pre-workout, but still take in a decent overall amount of carbs (if you train in the A.M., don't answer this)? I ask because in a way, I'm not carb sensitive. That is, I operate well taking in over 100g carbs a day, which I guess is still low. However, I have experimented with eating carbs throughout various meals in the day before my afternoon workout, and I've experienced ZERO benefit from this. In fact, I usually will put on fat or lose less fat if I substitute fats in my pre-workout meals with carbs. Anybody else like this?

That's all, and thanks for any help.

I take in zero carbs preWO and eat ~200 in the hours after I train (usually finish lifting around 8:00PM). This works out great for me sicne I feel less energized after eating carbs -- you might be the same way!

 

[Torobestia]

He doesn't put out specific numbers or calories because he's "saving it for the book" -- but who knows when that will finally come out. The only real suggestions I've come across are to determine what your resting expenditure is and then adjust from there based on your goals.

I think LG is +20% calories on training days and -20% calories on rest days. From there you can adjust the calories if you wanted to focus more on bulking or cutting. Again, sorry I can't give specific calorie totals but I really don't ever see them proposed on LG.



Yeah, MB always emphasizes it. The philosophy on a cut is that out of two diets equal in calorie content, the one with more protein will result in less fat storage. MB has the study somewhere on his blog; it might be linked from the 'alcohol damage control' post.

I usually end up right about 1g/1lb bodyweight; slightly more on training days.



I don't use BCAAs except for immediately pre-cardio and pre-workout (both of which come right before my FIRST meal). Some guys on here use BCAAs throughout the day, although I've had substantial success without utilizing them so frequently.



I take in zero carbs preWO and eat ~200 in the hours after I train (usually finish lifting around 8:00PM). This works out great for me sicne I feel less energized after eating carbs -- you might be the same way!

AMAZING response. Thank you very much.

Yeah, about my first question regarding calories - I was actually looking for the answer you gave. I totally forgot to clarify that I wanted it in terms of maintenance numbers, not like 3700 calories, for instance, as everyone is different.

This feedback at least gives me a pretty good base to experiment with this protocol. By the way, I used to use fitday's calculator to find out my cals and macronutrient breakdown. But what sucks is, at least with the free or online version, you can only do that for a day. So as soon as it's Monday, for instance, my calculations disappear, or I have to scroll all the way back through a digi calendar to the date I made the calculations. Is there a better website out there to do this on?

 

[EasyEJL]

Why not use a combination of fitday and a spreadsheet?

 

[Red Dog]

AMAZING response. Thank you very much.

Yeah, about my first question regarding calories - I was actually looking for the answer you gave. I totally forgot to clarify that I wanted it in terms of maintenance numbers, not like 3700 calories, for instance, as everyone is different.

This feedback at least gives me a pretty good base to experiment with this protocol. By the way, I used to use fitday's calculator to find out my cals and macronutrient breakdown. But what sucks is, at least with the free or online version, you can only do that for a day. So as soon as it's Monday, for instance, my calculations disappear, or I have to scroll all the way back through a digi calendar to the date I made the calculations. Is there a better website out there to do this on?

Happy to help! Actually, Invalid Link Removed is a link to a PDF MB wrote that describes some details of the approach and includes the information on the +20%/-20% framework.

I'm not up to date with the online calorie trackers (I've seen been less diligent in tracking exact foods and daily calories) but I agree with Easy; you could create a FitDay-esque setup in Excel and you would be good to go. Plus, you could use functions to find averages or totals or whatever else you wanted should the need ever arise.

 

[soontobbeast]

i usually work out after meal 2.

eat a TON of spaghetti and chicken and an extra serving of banana and strawberries ......then the next day Eggs instead of the spaghetti and less bananas and strawberries. my weights staying the same roughly but im getting leaner i believe and a huge guy i work with told me im getting bigger today. all while my bro is eating fried chicken , doritos and candy and maintaining leanness using IF.

on a side note : diphenhydramine is the WORST negatively body compositioning drug out there. i was taking 150mg a night to sleep and enjoy the sedated feeling and i NOTICEABLY became more vascular, and took off fat when i stopped taking it. im on day 6 without it. i read it blunts T release and GH release..which makes sense now. not to mention the hell it plays on the stomach/GI tract.

just a tip for those using the benadryl to upregular betas

 

[Blacktail]

So do any of you do heavy manual labour (8-14+hours) with this diet during the day not including training?

 

[DreamWeaver]

I'm kinda in the same boat and I actually like doing a shortened window on the rest days. The caloric goal is much smaller than training days so its easy to hit that target early

yah I like that idea, it's easier to extend the fast than spread less calories over 8 hours... I tried that Saturday and was pleased with the result.

Why not use a combination of fitday and a spreadsheet?

Yah that's how I do it...

 

[SouthernLord]

This is horrible IMO

Where's the meat and veggies?

Fwiw, I eat more kcal than this in my pwo meal.

Morning - Before work
2 Yougurt - 200 cal, 10 pro, 38 carb, 0 fat
Protein Shake - 140 cal, 27 pro, 3 carb, 0 fat
Fish Oil
Multi-V

Snack 1
Peanut Butter & Banana *1/2* - 173 cal, 8 pro, 21 carb, 9 fat

Lunch
Peanut Butter & Banana *1/2* - 172 cal, 8 pro, 21 carb, 9 fat
Protein Shake - 140 cal, 27 pro, 3 carb, 0 fat

Snack 2
Peanut Butter & Banana *1/2* - 172 cal, 8 pro, 21 carb, 9 fat

Snack 3
Peanut Butter & Banana *1/2* - 173 cal, 8 pro, 21 carb, 9 fat

PWO
Protein Shake - 280 cal, 54 pro, 6 carb, 0 fat

1250 Calories, 140g Protein, 90g Carbs, 36g Fat
This is before dinner, where I eat some chicken, turkey, tuna, lean type of meat with veggies

I eat the same thing everyday, now if I were to put this into IF how would you all recommend that to look?

 

[Milas]

Morning - Before work
2 Yougurt - 200 cal, 10 pro, 38 carb, 0 fat
Protein Shake - 140 cal, 27 pro, 3 carb, 0 fat
Fish Oil
Multi-V

Snack 1
Peanut Butter & Banana *1/2* - 173 cal, 8 pro, 21 carb, 9 fat

Lunch
Peanut Butter & Banana *1/2* - 172 cal, 8 pro, 21 carb, 9 fat
Protein Shake - 140 cal, 27 pro, 3 carb, 0 fat

Snack 2
Peanut Butter & Banana *1/2* - 172 cal, 8 pro, 21 carb, 9 fat

Snack 3
Peanut Butter & Banana *1/2* - 173 cal, 8 pro, 21 carb, 9 fat

PWO
Protein Shake - 280 cal, 54 pro, 6 carb, 0 fat

1250 Calories, 140g Protein, 90g Carbs, 36g Fat
This is before dinner, where I eat some chicken, turkey, tuna, lean type of meat with veggies

I eat the same thing everyday, now if I were to put this into IF how would you all recommend that to look?

Yikes, that's a lot of peanut butter and banana!

Honestly, unless you're absolutely addicted, I would try to cut that down to a single snack between lunch and dinner and use the whole banana with NaturallyMore Peanut Butter for extra protein/omega-3/fiber.

I also think you need more whole food protein sources up front, not relying on shakes so much until dinner.

I think an IF diet would look more like this, though I'm no expert:

12PM (fast break): 687 cal, 87g pro, 66g carb (14g fiber), 11g fat
10oz tuna/chicken 333 cal, 73 pro, 0 carb, 4g fat
1 cup brocolli 54 cal, 4g pro, 12g carb (6g fiber), 1g fat
1 cup oats or sweet potato 300 cal, 10g pro, 54g carb (8g fiber), 6g fat

3PM Snack: 505 cal, 21g pro, 39g carb (7g fiber), 30.5g fat
1 banana 105 cal, 1g pro, 27g carb (3g fiber), .5g fat
4Tbsp Naturally More PB 400cal, 20g pro, 12g carb (4g fiber), 30g fat

PWO or 6PM Dinner: 654 cal, 76g pro, 82g carb (19g fiber), 7.5g fat
10oz chicken/extra lean beef/fish 275 cal, 57.5g pro, 0g carb, 6g fat
3 cups spinach 123 cal, 16g pro, 21g carb (13g fiber), 1.5g fat
8oz baked sweet potato 256 cal, 2.4g pro, 61g carb (6g fiber), 0g fat

7:30PM Dessert:
Protein Shake - 140 cal, 27 pro, 3 carb, 0 fat


Totals: 1986 cal, 211g pro, 190g carb (40g fiber), 39g fat


That's a more whole food approach to getting the protein in to feel satiated, and balanced in the 2000 calorie range. Of course on workout days you would go up 20%, and on rest days down 20%. This can be adjusted by increasing/decreasing serving sizes for carb and protein sources.

Just thinking about this is making me hungry!!!

Anyway, others can chime in, but I feel this would be a much better alternative using IF 16off/8on eating window.

3 hours to go before I get to eat!!! 16oz curried Flounder waiting for me!!! NOM!

 

[Milas]

Happy to help! Actually, Invalid Link Removed is a link to a PDF MB wrote that describes some details of the approach and includes the information on the +20%/-20% framework.

I'm not up to date with the online calorie trackers (I've seen been less diligent in tracking exact foods and daily calories) but I agree with Easy; you could create a FitDay-esque setup in Excel and you would be good to go. Plus, you could use functions to find averages or totals or whatever else you wanted should the need ever arise.

Thanks for the link, good info!

I use Fitday.com, and it works alright. I try to make my estimates a little higher to help me control my eating, otherwise I'd easily eat way too much!

Caloriecount.com seems like another decent one that has more "restaurant" and prepared food data. I cook almost all my food, so fitday works fine for me.

 

[DreamWeaver]

Yikes, that's a lot of peanut butter and banana!

Honestly, unless you're absolutely addicted, I would try to cut that down to a single snack between lunch and dinner and use the whole banana with NaturallyMore Peanut Butter for extra protein/omega-3/fiber.

I also think you need more whole food protein sources up front, not relying on shakes so much until dinner.

I think an IF diet would look more like this, though I'm no expert:

12PM (fast break): 687 cal, 87g pro, 66g carb (14g fiber), 11g fat
10oz tuna/chicken 333 cal, 73 pro, 0 carb, 4g fat
1 cup brocolli 54 cal, 4g pro, 12g carb (6g fiber), 1g fat
1 cup oats or sweet potato 300 cal, 10g pro, 54g carb (8g fiber), 6g fat

3PM Snack: 505 cal, 21g pro, 39g carb (7g fiber), 30.5g fat
1 banana 105 cal, 1g pro, 27g carb (3g fiber), .5g fat
4Tbsp Naturally More PB 400cal, 20g pro, 12g carb (4g fiber), 30g fat

PWO or 6PM Dinner: 654 cal, 76g pro, 82g carb (19g fiber), 7.5g fat
10oz chicken/extra lean beef/fish 275 cal, 57.5g pro, 0g carb, 6g fat
3 cups spinach 123 cal, 16g pro, 21g carb (13g fiber), 1.5g fat
8oz baked sweet potato 256 cal, 2.4g pro, 61g carb (6g fiber), 0g fat

7:30PM Dessert:
Protein Shake - 140 cal, 27 pro, 3 carb, 0 fat


Totals: 1986 cal, 211g pro, 190g carb (40g fiber), 39g fat


That's a more whole food approach to getting the protein in to feel satiated, and balanced in the 2000 calorie range. Of course on workout days you would go up 20%, and on rest days down 20%. This can be adjusted by increasing/decreasing serving sizes for carb and protein sources.

Just thinking about this is making me hungry!!!

Anyway, others can chime in, but I feel this would be a much better alternative using IF 16off/8on eating window.

3 hours to go before I get to eat!!! 16oz curried Flounder waiting for me!!! NOM!

You're on very low calories for this regime. I am on recomp level 2800 and 2400 on nwd's..and losing quite a bit of fat.. could be our difference in weight too.

 

[Milas]

You're on very low calories for this regime. I am on recomp level 2800 and 2400 on nwd's..and losing quite a bit of fat.. could be our difference in weight too.

Oh, that's not for me, I was just trying to keep his diet within his specified range of 2K calories.

My diet is a lot higher! I'm generally shooting for 3K-4k cal on workout days, depending on muscle group and if I add cardio or not. I'm trying to lean bulk. Bulk is working, staying relatively lean, but still putting on some fat (noticeable from where I was at contest weight 2 weeks ago). I've gone from 176.2lbs at weigh in to 189lbs last night. A lot of water and glycogen, but skin is getting a little looser around the tummy...

Yesterday (off day, 2 cardio sessions) I was at 3,600 calories! A bit too high... but I was just too hungry to help myself! ARGH, food! Why does it have to taste so good! I wanted to be 20% below, but I couldn't do it being home surrounded by goodness like homemade blueberry pancakes!

 

[EasyEJL]

Yesterday as an off day for me I managed to hold off on eating till 530pm, but then had a 20oz prime rib and potato, then some peanut butter fudge ice cream. quite nice

 

[MrKleen73]

Yesterday as an off day for me I managed to hold off on eating till 530pm, but then had a 20oz prime rib and potato, then some peanut butter fudge ice cream. quite nice

Yowzas!!!! Now thats a meal!

I am going to be doing a static diet on my NWD of about 1800 cals. I have it set up and will expound upon it a little more in my log. But basically using a set diet plan those days so I don't have to think about what I am eating or what I need to do to get my nutrients in. I just need to follow the plan unless I have a major desire to deviate from it for some reason.

 

[soontobbeast]

So do any of you do heavy manual labour (8-14+hours) with this diet during the day not including training?

my brother does. he does it all fasted then comes home and eats at 5 till like 9 when he goes to bed.

 

[DreamWeaver]

Oh, that's not for me, I was just trying to keep his diet within his specified range of 2K calories.

My diet is a lot higher! I'm generally shooting for 3K-4k cal on workout days, depending on muscle group and if I add cardio or not. I'm trying to lean bulk. Bulk is working, staying relatively lean, but still putting on some fat (noticeable from where I was at contest weight 2 weeks ago). I've gone from 176.2lbs at weigh in to 189lbs last night. A lot of water and glycogen, but skin is getting a little looser around the tummy...

Yesterday (off day, 2 cardio sessions) I was at 3,600 calories! A bit too high... but I was just too hungry to help myself! ARGH, food! Why does it have to taste so good! I wanted to be 20% below, but I couldn't do it being home surrounded by goodness like homemade blueberry pancakes!

ahhh gotcha yah figured you could pack away the groceries....:veryhappy: