I'm on Phosphatidic acid Ya'll

[Danes]

Of course there's no way to know what's in it for sure but according to the label yes.

I would rather use 4% than 7-8% TBH.

 

[Chefdeez]

I would rather use 4% than 7-8% TBH.

Why? Just curious

 

[ma70]

Why? Just curious

To make sure you're getting enough PA to match the study.

 

[Chefdeez]

To make sure you're getting enough PA to match the study.

Yes but fearn is standardized to 97% phosphatides...

 

[Danes]

Why? Just curious

When Optima said its between 4-7%. If they knew it is 7% then they would say just 7%.
If I remember right, there are other companies who answered 4-7%.

 

[Danes]

Yes but fearn is standardized to 97% phosphatides...

And 4-7% of that is PA

 

[Chefdeez]

And 4-7% of that is PA

Hah ok I think we are all on the same page.

 

[ma70]

Cliffs: Just take 3 tbsp. It's one extra tbsp which will make one container last 20 days instead of 30 (for anywhere between 900-1800mg PA), but at ~7 bucks per container, I think that's not too bad.

 

[TheFugitive]

Chefdeez, try mixing your SL in a protein shake. I found this to help with digesting the SL

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Are you 100% sure?
Optima SL (if reading the label) should have 12.38% PA. But Optima answered to MuscleUpC. About % of PA in their granules. It was 4-7 % if I remember right.

Yeah, that's what the product info sheet they sent me said. Everything except phosphatides, which has a minimum standardization, is a range, and, if I recall, isn't tested for every time.

I'd make sure I'm getting 750mg calculating using 4% PA. Aside from the manufacturer/company info listing 4-7% and/or 8%, I mentioned a few papers and books a while back that listed anywhere between 4-9%, with 5-7/8 being common if my memory serves me well. I think I came to the conclusion that 7% seems to be a common average amount, but I'd still hit 750mg at 4%.

Also, I think some people were curious a while back, the choline isn't an issue at 5 tbsp, in fact, you'd need 9 tbsp of Fearn (based on label claim of 225mg choline per tbsp) to get 2g choline per day, which also has some promising studies on it.

 

[Danes]

Yeah, that's what the product info sheet they sent me said. Everything except phosphatides, which has a minimum standardization, is a range, and, if I recall, isn't tested for every time.

I'd make sure I'm getting 750mg calculating using 4% PA. Aside from the manufacturer/company info listing 4-7% and/or 8%, I mentioned a few papers and books a while back that listed anywhere between 4-9%, with 5-7/8 being common if my memory serves me well. I think I came to the conclusion that 7% seems to be a common average amount, but I'd still hit 750mg at 4%.

Also, I think some people were curious a while back, the choline isn't an issue at 5 tbsp, in fact, you'd need 9 tbsp of Fearn (based on label claim of 225mg choline per tbsp) to get 2g choline per day, which also has some promising studies on it.

And scientist said (found in the study) other phospholipids had similar effect on mTOR like PA did. That is just fantastic

 

[Chefdeez]

Chefdeez, try mixing your SL in a protein shake. I found this to help with digesting the SL

Oh I have no problem getting them down. I actually enjoy the taste. Greek yogurt and SL is my go to.

 

[kpeaceoutbye]

Oh I have no problem getting them down. I actually enjoy the taste. Greek yogurt and SL is my go to.

Just dumping it on greek yogurt? Cool, I'll give that a whirl next time.

 

[kbayne]

Ok so, previously I'd been putting 4 tbsp granules into my 32oz water bottle and sipped it intra-workout, but on your suggestion I've been trying to take those 4 tbsp an hour pre-workout instead. Unfortunately, I've discovered that chugging that much is bothering my stomach and making me feel kinda crappy before I get to the gym. Any suggestions? What do you think the minimum pre-workout dosage would be to effectively activate mTOR? Would 1 tbsp pre-workout, with 3 tbsp intra be ok? 2 tbsp pre, 2 tbsp intra? Any other suggestions people have learned from experience to deal with stomach discomfort from granules?

Do you eat a pre workout meal? If so, try dosing 2-3 tbsp with that meal.

 

[Chefdeez]

Just dumping it on greek yogurt? Cool, I'll give that a whirl next time.

Yes but I actually like the taste I usually just spoon it into my mouth. Shakes too.

 

[kpeaceoutbye]

Is 20-30 mins pre better, or better to take like 1.5-2 hours pre with a meal?

 

[thebigt]

in before fda bans lecithin granules!!!

 

[tyga tyga]

Yes but I actually like the taste I usually just spoon it into my mouth. Shakes too.

Same. I chew them up.. Love the taste

 

[Danes]

in before fda bans lecithin granules!!!

Lol!!! I can smell the ban too.
Anabolic Ban

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Is 20-30 mins pre better, or better to take like 1.5-2 hours pre with a meal?

Lately I'd been taking them ~30 min pre (limited other pre-workout ingredients due to being on vacation in Canada ATM), but today I took them probably 1-1.5 hours before working out and had a great workout. Now, there are tons of other variables to consider, but, with that in mind, and the absorption time of PA being what it is, just take it whenever is convenient for you, although I'd still recommend taking it within 2-3 hours before hitting the gym.

 

[kbayne]

I've been dosing about 60-70 minutes pre.

 

[thebigt]

Lol!!! I can smell the ban too.
Anabolic Ban

yup...anything that works this good and is so cheap is bound to get banned, lol!!!

 

[schizm]

Lol!!! I can smell the ban too.
Anabolic Ban

not banned, just prescription only like PF3 lol...

 

[TheIronAsylum]

then wel just switch to brewers yeast

 

[TheFugitive]

I've been dosing about 60-70 minutes pre.

On training days I would take both caps 60 mins prior, now I space out the doses. I really don't notice a difference

Have you tried spacing out your tablespoons on training days?

 

[kbayne]

On training days I would take both caps 60 mins prior, now I space out the doses. I really don't notice a difference

Have you tried spacing out your tablespoons on training days?

I do 3 tbsp 60-70 minutes pre-workout and then 2 tbsp about 6-7 hours later.

 

[Danes]

not banned, just prescription only like PF3 lol...

Lol

 

[TheFugitive]

Yeah, that's what the product info sheet they sent me said. Everything except phosphatides, which has a minimum standardization, is a range, and, if I recall, isn't tested for every time.

I'd make sure I'm getting 750mg calculating using 4% PA. Aside from the manufacturer/company info listing 4-7% and/or 8%, I mentioned a few papers and books a while back that listed anywhere between 4-9%, with 5-7/8 being common if my memory serves me well. I think I came to the conclusion that 7% seems to be a common average amount, but I'd still hit 750mg at 4%.

Also, I think some people were curious a while back, the choline isn't an issue at 5 tbsp, in fact, you'd need 9 tbsp of Fearn (based on label claim of 225mg choline per tbsp) to get 2g choline per day, which also has some promising studies on it.

That's over a 1/2 cup of granules per day

 

[muscleupcrohn]

That's over a 1/2 cup of granules per day

I agree, I wouldn't go that high with the granules, I was just making a point that the choline content isn't something to be concerned about, unless you're already talking a good bit of choline to begin with. I haven't gone over 5tbsp, more like 3-5tbsp daily.

 

[TheFugitive]

I agree, I wouldn't go that high with the granules, I was just making a point that the choline content isn't something to be concerned about, unless you're already talking a good bit of choline to begin with. I haven't gone over 5tbsp, more like 3-5tbsp daily.

I find taking two caps is the easiest route for me. How are you taking your granules?

 

[ma70]

I find taking two caps is the easiest route for me. How are you taking your granules?

Most people are either taking all TbSp pre-workout, or they're doing half and half pre and post workout. I have done both protocols (I've been on it for about a month/1.5 months) and noticed no difference (meaning I notice positive effects with either protocol)

 

[muscleupcrohn]

I find taking two caps is the easiest route for me. How are you taking your granules?

Always 3tbsp pre-workout, at minimum on training days, and I try to get another 2 in with a post-workout shake, but, being on vacation, this hasn't always happened in the past month (I have done 2tbsp with a breakfast shake and 3 pre-workout as well). On rest days, it's 2-3tbsp with a meal, and 2-3tbsp with another meal (again, not super consistent while on vacation, but that's not important, since I'm on vacation), for a total of 3-5tbsp per day. The only granules I've been able to find near me in Canada is Natural Factors brand. The granules are even finer than Fearn or Optima, almost little flakes. They don't list the phosphadite %, but they do list that they're standardized to min 25% PC, which is in line with it being high phosphadite. I've liked them, nothing to complain about.

 

[jwsnowman]

Is there any negative effect from taking PA with food or is it an ingredient that is ok with or without food?

 

[kbayne]

Is there any negative effect from taking PA with food or is it an ingredient that is ok with or without food?

With or without.

 

[jwsnowman]

With or without.

Cool. Thanks man. Just got my delivery slip in my mailbox yesterday. Gotta run to the post office to pick it up this afternoon!

 

[ToughMech]

Ive been taking the muscle tech phospha grow by muscle tech for about a month and half now. I made a few changes at the same time so its hard to say for sure. What I do know is that I recover very well and have seen changes in my body faster now than I ever had before. I also workout for longer on the same muscle group and it doesn't seem to phase me nearly as much as it used to. It was enough for me to buy more of it. I normally buy it at buy one get one half off. So its not too bad, but still a little pricey.

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Ive been taking the muscle tech phospha grow by muscle tech for about a month and half now. I made a few changes at the same time so its hard to say for sure. What I do know is that I recover very well and have seen changes in my body faster now than I ever had before. I also workout for longer on the same muscle group and it doesn't seem to phase me nearly as much as it used to. It was enough for me to buy more of it. I normally buy it at buy one get one half off. So its not too bad, but still a little pricey.

whats the per bottle cost? you can pick up phosphamuscle for about 40$ per bottle with codes and such at certain stores

 

[ToughMech]

I got mine at GNC with membership price for buy one get one and its about 107 for 2 bottles (2 months). That is for the phospha grow they also have a phospha muscle as well, but the ingredients slightly differ. I'm sure both would work just fine, but both cost about the same from what I have seen so far. I

 

[NewAgeMayan]

I got mine at GNC with membership price for buy one get one and its about 107 for 2 bottles (2 months). That is for the phospha grow they also have a phospha muscle as well, but the ingredients slightly differ. I'm sure both would work just fine, but both cost about the same from what I have seen so far. I

google 'priceplow', and do a product search there for 'phosphamuscle' (annd just about any supp)...youll save yourself some money

 

[roy_jones]

My completely subjective opinion is that the average lecithin granule might indeed be closer to 6 or 7%, based off nothing more than my own perception of playing around with dosages. I defer to those who have more experience playing around with the capsules, though.

 

[kboxer7]

My completely subjective opinion is that the average lecithin granule might indeed be closer to 6 or 7%, based off nothing more than my own perception of playing around with dosages. I defer to those who have more experience playing around with the capsules, though.

I would tend to agree.

@ 2 tbsp, not that noticeable, @ 3 it is good, 4 is great, 5+ may be overkill imo if taken all at once.

I've been on the granuals for a while now and my preference is:

2 tbsp am with my shake
3 pre wkout at night
1-2 post wkout

The recomp effects have been nothing short of outstanding. More vascular, muscle fullness, reduction in bf by a couple %, and increased muscle size despite maintaining my weight (give or take 1lb).

After summer I'll crank up my cals and get back to a lean bulk, but for summer I'm sticking to my protocol.

Regards,

 

[muscleupcrohn]

My completely subjective opinion is that the average lecithin granule might indeed be closer to 6 or 7%, based off nothing more than my own perception of playing around with dosages. I defer to those who have more experience playing around with the capsules, though.

I agree. Based on the papers and books I've read, I'd say that, if I had to pick one number for the average, I'd go with 7%, but I'd aim to hit 750mg PA calculating with 4%, which is the lowest amount you're going to get really. (4-7% and 5-9% seem to be commonly thrown around numbers from companies and papers, so 6-7% should be right on.)

 

[gus6917]

I took SL about 2 months ago but i stopped after only a week
I had really bad mouth dryness and thirst was extreme and no amount of water would quench
thirst or make dryness go away
Anybody else experience this?

 

[Danes]

I took SL about 2 months ago but i stopped after only a week
I had really bad mouth dryness and thirst was extreme and no amount of water would quench
thirst or make dryness go away
Anybody else experience this?

Never experienced that. Are you drinking enough of water?

 

[machinehead]

I am in my 5th week of taking an ounce of sunflower lecithin powder with claimed 1g of PA per half an ounce (so 2g PA daily) and figured it is time for an update.

In brief, I absolutely love it. I get the same results I got from taking about the same amount of PA from Fearn back in December with a few differences. First of all, the digestion issues and the gut distension that soy lecithin brought are absent with sunflower. That alone makes it worth paying extra for. Secondly, the cravings that it got me were not same as the Fearn ones. I don't know if that is related or not but I was craving any kind of food on Fearn and especially low-protein stuff but on Lekithos I was craving mostly protein foods. A pound of meat at sitting was the norm, as was the multiple number of sittings per day. I think it died down this week but that also could be the stress from squatting heavy twice a week showing. Lastly, and least importantly, the powder tastes a lot more refined than Fearn granules. Almost to the extent of the difference between white and brown sugar as there is no extra flavor from any residual stuff. Just very mild nutty taste with no aftertaste.

About the fullness, recovery and strength increases, these are all on point as they were on Fearn. PA has been the best supplement for those benefits I have ever taken and the sunflower lecithin powder has made easier to take.

I got a pound of Now sunflower lecithin I'd like to switch to for a bit to see if that is similar in effect (I don't see why it should not be). It looks identical to the Swanson brand that claims 0.9g of PA per 15g serving so we'll see. Further down road I'd like to add a serving or two of Phospha Muscle pre-workout only to see if I will get a noticeable boost from that.

Cheers

 

[ma70]

I am in my 5th week of taking an ounce of sunflower lecithin powder with claimed 1g of PA per half an ounce (so 2g PA daily) and figured it is time for an update.

In brief, I absolutely love it. I get the same results I got from taking about the same amount of PA from Fearn back in December with a few differences. First of all, the digestion issues and the gut distension that soy lecithin brought are absent with sunflower. That alone makes it worth paying extra for. Secondly, the cravings that it got me were not same as the Fearn ones. I don't know if that is related or not but I was craving any kind of food on Fearn and especially low-protein stuff but on Lekithos I was craving mostly protein foods. A pound of meat at sitting was the norm, as was the multiple number of sittings per day. I think it died down this week but that also could be the stress from squatting heavy twice a week showing. Lastly, and least importantly, the powder tastes a lot more refined than Fearn granules. Almost to the extent of the difference between white and brown sugar as there is no extra flavor from any residual stuff. Just very mild nutty taste with no aftertaste.

About the fullness, recovery and strength increases, these are all on point as they were on Fearn. PA has been the best supplement for those benefits I have ever taken and the sunflower lecithin powder has made easier to take.

I got a pound of Now sunflower lecithin I'd like to switch to for a bit to see if that is similar in effect (I don't see why it should not be). It looks identical to the Swanson brand that claims 0.9g of PA per 15g serving so we'll see. Further down road I'd like to add a serving or two of Phospha Muscle pre-workout only to see if I will get a noticeable boost from that.

Cheers

Interesting stuff. Thanks for posting that!

 

[machinehead]

I just tasted the Now powder. Wow, I see how some may not like it at all. It is a lot stronger than Lekithos and may get old fast. Next, see how it plays with protein powder in shaker cup.

 

[kpeaceoutbye]

I am in my 5th week of taking an ounce of sunflower lecithin powder with claimed 1g of PA per half an ounce (so 2g PA daily) and figured it is time for an update.

In brief, I absolutely love it. I get the same results I got from taking about the same amount of PA from Fearn back in December with a few differences. First of all, the digestion issues and the gut distension that soy lecithin brought are absent with sunflower. That alone makes it worth paying extra for. Secondly, the cravings that it got me were not same as the Fearn ones. I don't know if that is related or not but I was craving any kind of food on Fearn and especially low-protein stuff but on Lekithos I was craving mostly protein foods. A pound of meat at sitting was the norm, as was the multiple number of sittings per day. I think it died down this week but that also could be the stress from squatting heavy twice a week showing. Lastly, and least importantly, the powder tastes a lot more refined than Fearn granules. Almost to the extent of the difference between white and brown sugar as there is no extra flavor from any residual stuff. Just very mild nutty taste with no aftertaste.

About the fullness, recovery and strength increases, these are all on point as they were on Fearn. PA has been the best supplement for those benefits I have ever taken and the sunflower lecithin powder has made easier to take.

I got a pound of Now sunflower lecithin I'd like to switch to for a bit to see if that is similar in effect (I don't see why it should not be). It looks identical to the Swanson brand that claims 0.9g of PA per 15g serving so we'll see. Further down road I'd like to add a serving or two of Phospha Muscle pre-workout only to see if I will get a noticeable boost from that.

Cheers

What brand is this? Also, can anyone clarify on if sunflower lecithin is the same as soy lecithin as far as the PA content?

Does the sunflower lecithin contain the choline and other good stuff like soy lecithin?

Also, how do the macros look compared to Fearn?

 

[machinehead]

The brand is Lekithos. Content is a tad lower at 1g per 14g compared to 1.2g per 15g of Fearn.

It is very similar in content to soy, choline and all. Macros are similar, price is more than double. I can't post links yet.

 

[TheFugitive]

Always 3tbsp pre-workout, at minimum on training days, and I try to get another 2 in with a post-workout shake, but, being on vacation, this hasn't always happened in the past month (I have done 2tbsp with a breakfast shake and 3 pre-workout as well). On rest days, it's 2-3tbsp with a meal, and 2-3tbsp with another meal (again, not super consistent while on vacation, but that's not important, since I'm on vacation), for a total of 3-5tbsp per day. The only granules I've been able to find near me in Canada is Natural Factors brand. The granules are even finer than Fearn or Optima, almost little flakes. They don't list the phosphadite %, but they do list that they're standardized to min 25% PC, which is in line with it being high phosphadite. I've liked them, nothing to complain about.

Let me know when your ready to run two bottles of King?