I'm cutting but I feel I'm going to lose all the weight I gained during bulking, does it make sense?

VtaperXO

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Hey guys, as I've told you in a previous post I'm cutting right now after being bulking a whole year. The thing is, does it makes any sense If I'm going to lose almost all the weight that I gained bulking? And what is even worse is that I think I still I am not going to be able to see my abs (Also I have bad genetic for abs), On the other hand in order you understand better what I'm trying to say:

-I started to bulk up weighing 167,5 lb( abt 76kg)(I estimated around 17%) and I ended up around 189lb(86kg) (OVER 20% of fat), I've been cutting since 7 weeks and I'm already 180,7lb(82,2kg). If I keep cutting for three months in a row ( 5 weeks more,Like I was planning), I can even reach almost the same weight before starting to bulk up, so what's the point? Did I only amass fat? I mean It was a whole year doing bulking I was adding about 2 lbs per months.

What would you recommend me? I'm a bit concerned about it.

Cheers!

Sorry about my english!
 

Sparta12

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86kg with over 20% fat? to me atleast, it sounds like you just need to focus on gaining as much muscle as possible first then chose to cut or bulk, most likely cut. I would probably stay recomp range with calories like 100 over maintainance and really hit the weights hard, you need to pack on some muscle... but I am not very good at giving this sort of advice so will see what others say ahha
 

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86kg with over 20% fat? to me atleast, it sounds like you just need to focus on gaining as much muscle as possible first then chose to cut or bulk, most likely cut. I would probably stay recomp range with calories like 100 over maintainance and really hit the weights hard, you need to pack on some muscle... but I am not very good at giving this sort of advice so will see what others say ahha
I'm 1,74cm( around 5'8 I think) if that helps! Well I have always been a bit chubby, even when I was younger I was skinny fat. Don't you think is a bit counterproductive keeping bulking having a high % fat?
Thanks for answering dude
 
Smont

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86kg with over 20% fat? to me atleast, it sounds like you just need to focus on gaining as much muscle as possible first then chose to cut or bulk, most likely cut. I would probably stay recomp range with calories like 100 over maintainance and really hit the weights hard, you need to pack on some muscle... but I am not very good at giving this sort of advice so will see what others say ahha
This is the absolute opposite of what I would have someone do. @20% bodyfat your just going to get fatter. He's already carrying about 40lbs of fat.

The fastest way to get big and muscular is to cut first, get as absolutely lean as possible and then start bulking. Staying around maintenance or "recomp" calories just means nothing noticeable is going to change.

The more body fat you have, the faster you put on body fat in a bulking phase, especially if you're natural
 

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This is the absolute opposite of what I would have someone do. @20% bodyfat your just going to get fatter. He's already carrying about 40lbs of fat.

The fastest way to get big and muscular is to cut first, get as absolutely lean as possible and then start bulking. Staying around maintenance or "recomp" calories just means nothing noticeable is going to change.

The more body fat you have, the faster you put on body fat in a bulking phase, especially if you're natural
Hey dude, In fact I decided to stop bulking because of that (P-ratio),the fatter you are is harder to gain muscle is that right, isn't it? Well one of my biggest mistake was never cutting because when I started lifting I was skinny fat so I was always bulking basically, but of course I have been amassing a bunch of bodyfat, the thing is I feel that the vast majority of my bulking was fat.
So let's see how it goes.
Thanks for answering friend!
 

Sparta12

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This is the absolute opposite of what I would have someone do. @20% bodyfat your just going to get fatter. He's already carrying about 40lbs of fat.

The fastest way to get big and muscular is to cut first, get as absolutely lean as possible and then start bulking. Staying around maintenance or "recomp" calories just means nothing noticeable is going to change.

The more body fat you have, the faster you put on body fat in a bulking phase, especially if you're natural
Yeah I get you, I have been in the same position though and I found a slight surplus worked for me, but I have had a long week and should have said 100 either side of maintenance probably in the deficit side better for him, but I would keep it in that recomp stage still for muscle gain. I dropped like 5% bf in 12 weeks and stayed at the same weight, that being said I was obviously too fat and not where my body should be normally due to some life issues... but if he thought he was losing too much muscle? or whatever he gained in the initial cut then he needs to tweak what he is doing... or just tough it out and cut like you said.

I base some of my opinion on this;

I followed a similar approach
 
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VtaperXO

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Yeah I get you, I have been in the same position though and I found a slight surplus worked for me, but I have had a long week and should have said 100 either side of maintenance probably in the deficit side better for him, but I would keep it in that recomp stage still for muscle gain. I dropped like 5% bf in 12 weeks and stayed at the same weight, that being said I was obviously too fat and not where my body should be normally due to some life issues... but if he thought he was losing too much muscle? or whatever he gained in the initial cut then he needs to tweak what he is doing... or just tough it out and cut like you said.

I base some of my opinion on this;

I followed a similar approach
Hey, look that I follow this dude but I haven't watched this video before, as far as I know you are not going to be able to gain muscle if you are not in a surplus, right? You were also over 20% fat? It's quite interesting your case I'd like to know a bit more if you want it of course, so to wrap it up if I do a slight deficit(100 calories) I can build muscle and lose fat at the same time? Sorry if I ask too much, this is because I've always seen this as a myth in the fitness community. On the other hand as for my protein intake I have been struggling with this but I'm about 0.8-1lb per bodyweight. I think I'm not reaching the amount is explaining Jeff, but I have no idea how much is my LBM
 

Sparta12

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Hey, look that I follow this dude but I haven't watched this video before, as far as I know you are not going to be able to gain muscle if you are not in a surplus, right? You were also over 20% fat? It's quite interesting your case I'd like to know a bit more if you want it of course, so to wrap it up if I do a slight deficit(100 calories) I can build muscle and lose fat at the same time? Sorry if I ask too much, this is because I've always seen this as a myth in the fitness community. On the other hand as for my protein intake I have been struggling with this but I'm about 0.8-1lb per bodyweight. I think I'm not reaching the amount is explaining Jeff, but I have no idea how much is my LBM
I cannot guarantee you will be able to build muscle and lose fat at the same time, it is different for everyone unfortunately... but I know it is possible for me, more so if I have taken few weeks off gym for various reasons, if I have put on a lot of fat, if I have been slacking on intensity... this all assumes you are training correctly and diet is on point.

As said in the video recomping works well for;
1. New lifters (including lazy lifters)
2. Overweight/Obese
3. Detrainees
4. Steroid users
5. Sub-optimized trainers

For simplicity, it might be better to do as Smont said and just go full cut until you get your bodyfat down to the low teens if possible.
 

Resolve10

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Hey guys, as I've told you in a previous post I'm cutting right now after being bulking a whole year. The thing is, does it makes any sense If I'm going to lose almost all the weight that I gained bulking? And what is even worse is that I think I still I am not going to be able to see my abs (Also I have bad genetic for abs), On the other hand in order you understand better what I'm trying to say:

-I started to bulk up weighing 167,5 lb( abt 76kg)(I estimated around 17%) and I ended up around 189lb(86kg) (OVER 20% of fat), I've been cutting since 7 weeks and I'm already 180,7lb(82,2kg). If I keep cutting for three months in a row ( 5 weeks more,Like I was planning), I can even reach almost the same weight before starting to bulk up, so what's the point? Did I only amass fat? I mean It was a whole year doing bulking I was adding about 2 lbs per months.

What would you recommend me? I'm a bit concerned about it.

Cheers!

Sorry about my english!
So a couple things.

1) It isn't unusual to need less time to cut and lose weight than it is to bulk, especially if you are all natural. Making gains can be slow, but cutting the fat off can go faster. Even if you went with a slow plan of weight loss at .5% of bodyweight per week you would still be losing roughly 4lbs per month starting at 189lbs, which would be twice as fast as the rate you used to gain over the course of the year of 2lbs per month (and is a pretty conservative weight loss rate).
2) It really might not be that unusual to end up at the same or similar weight at the end of a bulk-cut cycle at all. Especially once you start to settle in at a weight that seems "right". You should see changes in what your physique looks like at this weight though, just because it is the same "weight" doesn't mean you didn't make progress. Hopefully you will have improved body composition at the same weight you were previously.
3) You might not like to hear it, but it also may take multiple attempts at bulking then cutting before you reach a time where the weight you want to be at has you lean enough to see your abs or you may even have to end up at a lower bodyweight than you think. I think many people just hold more fat or don't realize how lean you have to truly be sometimes to see the level of ab definition they want. This is meant to be more just so you know and not to be discouraging.

I would just continue doing what you are doing, without more details about the specifics of how it has gone there isn't anything distinctly wrong with what you have done. If you finish your cut and don't feel you have made enough gains in mass over the past years plan, don't get discouraged, look at what you did the past year and use it to help formulate a potentially different plan the following year.

Everyone is going to have a different journey and it always just about learning what you have done, what worked, and to take the next step to just keep pushing forward.

Hey dude, In fact I decided to stop bulking because of that (P-ratio),the fatter you are is harder to gain muscle is that right, isn't it? Well one of my biggest mistake was never cutting because when I started lifting I was skinny fat so I was always bulking basically, but of course I have been amassing a bunch of bodyfat, the thing is I feel that the vast majority of my bulking was fat.
So let's see how it goes.
Thanks for answering friend!
That is not necessarily true. Tons of stuff gets posted online about it, but honestly it would take a lot to even cover what is really going on in that situation anyways. I prefer to be leaner the majority of the time and maybe others do as well, but there is some flex room in there.

If you find most of your bulking was just leading to fat gain you just need to take a step back and look at what you are doing in the gym and in your nutrition to figure out what needs to be tweaked to change that.
 

VtaperXO

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I cannot guarantee you will be able to build muscle and lose fat at the same time, it is different for everyone unfortunately... but I know it is possible for me, more so if I have taken few weeks off gym for various reasons, if I have put on a lot of fat, if I have been slacking on intensity... this all assumes you are training correctly and diet is on point.

As said in the video recomping works well for;
1. New lifters (including lazy lifters)
2. Overweight/Obese
3. Detrainees
4. Steroid users
5. Sub-optimized trainers

For simplicity, it might be better to do as Smont said and just go full cut until you get your bodyfat down to the low teens if possible.
I'm an intermediate lifter , just that for life issues I have been on and off, but right now I have been training for more than one year in a row. What is kind of overwhelming is the fact that I feel I just gained fat during the whole year, and I'm just losing it right now. It wasn't a dirty bulk just 200-300 calories on surplus.
I'm gonna read more about body recomposition and see what I can decide
 

VtaperXO

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So a couple things.

1) It isn't unusual to need less time to cut and lose weight than it is to bulk, especially if you are all natural. Making gains can be slow, but cutting the fat off can go faster. Even if you went with a slow plan of weight loss at .5% of bodyweight per week you would still be losing roughly 4lbs per month starting at 189lbs, which would be twice as fast as the rate you used to gain over the course of the year of 2lbs per month (and is a pretty conservative weight loss rate).
2) It really might not be that unusual to end up at the same or similar weight at the end of a bulk-cut cycle at all. Especially once you start to settle in at a weight that seems "right". You should see changes in what your physique looks like at this weight though, just because it is the same "weight" doesn't mean you didn't make progress. Hopefully you will have improved body composition at the same weight you were previously.
3) You might not like to hear it, but it also may take multiple attempts at bulking then cutting before you reach a time where the weight you want to be at has you lean enough to see your abs or you may even have to end up at a lower bodyweight than you think. I think many people just hold more fat or don't realize how lean you have to truly be sometimes to see the level of ab definition they want. This is meant to be more just so you know and not to be discouraging.

I would just continue doing what you are doing, without more details about the specifics of how it has gone there isn't anything distinctly wrong with what you have done. If you finish your cut and don't feel you have made enough gains in mass over the past years plan, don't get discouraged, look at what you did the past year and use it to help formulate a potentially different plan the following year.

Everyone is going to have a different journey and it always just about learning what you have done, what worked, and to take the next step to just keep pushing forward.



That is not necessarily true. Tons of stuff gets posted online about it, but honestly it would take a lot to even cover what is really going on in that situation anyways. I prefer to be leaner the majority of the time and maybe others do as well, but there is some flex room in there.

If you find most of your bulking was just leading to fat gain you just need to take a step back and look at what you are doing in the gym and in your nutrition to figure out what needs to be tweaked to change that.
Hey bro, first of all thanks for your time answering this and giving your opinion, I appreciate it. Yeah my fat percentage is one of my issues, as I've written I have never be able to see my abs, but I know what you mean I think in this case is going to be tougher to be lean maybe I'll have to make more attempts, it's a bit overwhelming though. So I'm gonna keep doing what I'm doing until reach the weight that I have in mind, what if I have to lose more weight than expected to get a decent bodyfat? I keep cutting or just start another bulking and wait until the other cut?
 
Smont

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Yeah I get you, I have been in the same position though and I found a slight surplus worked for me, but I have had a long week and should have said 100 either side of maintenance probably in the deficit side better for him, but I would keep it in that recomp stage still for muscle gain. I dropped like 5% bf in 12 weeks and stayed at the same weight, that being said I was obviously too fat and not where my body should be normally due to some life issues... but if he thought he was losing too much muscle? or whatever he gained in the initial cut then he needs to tweak what he is doing... or just tough it out and cut like you said.

I base some of my opinion on this;

I followed a similar approach
There's a massive problem here, this is a world class natural bodybuilder who's recomping back to a previous form he's been in a million times. But trying to recomp someone who's never been lean would take a lifetime without a lotvof drugs and even then it wouldn't be a easy process. If you have already achieved something then getting back there is easy. But if someone has never had abs it's gonna take some hard core grinding.

Also to op, I hate to be the barrer of bad news but @20% 189lbs. Your gonna probably need to cut to about 160 if you kept every ounce of muscle which is unlikely, 150 is probably more realistic.
 
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Yeah I get you, I have been in the same position though and I found a slight surplus worked for me, but I have had a long week and should have said 100 either side of maintenance probably in the deficit side better for him, but I would keep it in that recomp stage still for muscle gain. I dropped like 5% bf in 12 weeks and stayed at the same weight, that being said I was obviously too fat and not where my body should be normally due to some life issues... but if he thought he was losing too much muscle? or whatever he gained in the initial cut then he needs to tweak what he is doing... or just tough it out and cut like you said.

I base some of my opinion on this;

I followed a similar approach
There's a massive problem here, this is a world class natural bodybuilder who's recomping back to a previous form he's been in a million times. But trying to recomp someone who's never been lean would take a lifetime without a lotvof drugs and even then it wouldn't be a easy process. If you have already achieved something then getting back there is easy. But if someone has never had abs it's gonna take some hard core grinding.

Also to op, I hate to be the barrer of bad news but @20% 189lbs. Your gonna probably need to cut to about 160 if you kept every ounce of muscle which is unlikely, 150 is probably more realistic.
 

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There's a massive problem here, this is a world class natural bodybuilder who's recomping back to a previous form he's been in a million times. But trying to recomp someone who's never been lean would take a lifetime without a lotvof drugs and even then it wouldn't be a easy process. If you have already achieved something then getting back there is easy. But if someone has never had abs it's gonna take some hard core grinding.

Also to op, I hate to be the barrer of bad news but @20% 189lbs. Your gonna probably need to cut to about 160 if you kept every ounce of muscle which is unlikely, 150 is probably more realistic.
I will really lose all the supposed " progress" if I lose that much (150), that's why I don't see the point of bulking-cutting if you are gonna lose every pound you gained in a bulking, there's something I'm not doing good at all for sure.
 

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Dudes maybe tomorrow I can upload some pics and you can see my fat percentage and my actual weight 82kg.
 
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That's weird the pictures didn't post I might need to resize them.

Would you like me to put the pictures up? If so just tell me and IL resize them and post them.

My avatar was also closer to 200lbs
 

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Gaining weight is not progress, gaining muscle is progress. The number on the scale means absolutely nothing at all.

I told the story to probably a million people and I actually logged in at 1 point and many people followed along when I went through this process.

I bulked up to 225 pounds for a bench press challenge. On the day of I weighed in at 223 and benched 353lbs.

I remember thinking to myself that I built so much muscle. I thought if I lose 10 pounds I'll be ripped, So I lost 10 pounds and then I looked in the mirror and said if I lose 10 more pounds I'll be ripped and I kept happening over and over again till I was all the way down to a 183lbs.

Here's me at 223

Here's 183

Now here's where **** gets good, once you diet that fat off, it's easier to keep it off. By the time I bulked back to 210 I was bigger, leaner more vascular and stronger.
I got it, that's happening to me right now with the dudes I'm working out, I'm one of the weakest and they have less weight than me, the weird thing is I wasn't dirty bulking, My diet was clean and gaining abt 2lbs per month, nothing crazy. Sure dude I have no problem post them. Tomorrow I'll post some pics in the morning
 

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That's weird the pictures didn't post I might need to resize them.

Would you like me to put the pictures up? If so just tell me and IL resize them and post them.

My avatar was also closer to 200lbs
You look lean asf bro, I think I'm not going to reach that point but of course I want at least be able to see my abs ( maybe around 13-14%)
 
Smont

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I edited the above post. I have better pictures in my other phone but I think these were good enough to get a understanding of what I'm trying to get at. Now I'm 210 and bulking again, I'm probably Going to push it up to 230 pounds maybe 240 and then IL probably diet all the way back to 200 and repeat the process till I'm lean at 225-230.

If your natural @5'8 the biggest your probably Going to be able to get while having a 6-pack is 165lbs.

When I was natural I couldn't get much bigger then 175 without putting on a significant amount of bodyfat
 
KvanH

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Like Smont said, I would cut to be lean first and then start adding weight and muscle. When getting too fat for your liking, it's time to cut again.
 
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A lot of good stuff here. I'll touch on some of them.

2) It really might not be that unusual to end up at the same or similar weight at the end of a bulk-cut cycle at all. Especially once you start to settle in at a weight that seems "right". You should see changes in what your physique looks like at this weight though, just because it is the same "weight" doesn't mean you didn't make progress. Hopefully you will have improved body composition at the same weight you were previously.
3) You might not like to hear it, but it also may take multiple attempts at bulking then cutting before you reach a time where the weight you want to be at has you lean enough to see your abs or you may even have to end up at a lower bodyweight than you think. I think many people just hold more fat or don't realize how lean you have to truly be sometimes to see the level of ab definition they want. This is meant to be more just so you know and not to be discouraging.

I would just continue doing what you are doing, without more details about the specifics of how it has gone there isn't anything distinctly wrong with what you have done. If you finish your cut and don't feel you have made enough gains in mass over the past years plan, don't get discouraged, look at what you did the past year and use it to help formulate a potentially different plan the following year.

Everyone is going to have a different journey and it always just about learning what you have done, what worked, and to take the next step to just keep pushing forward.
This is how it usually goes. After every bulk and every cut, you're trying to be leaner and bigger, than you were previously at that same weight. I've been basically doing that for about 15 years now. Obviously a lot of different things going on in those years and many time periods and situations were training and nutrition has not been optimal or good even + some injuries and other sports taking time and energy and overall just put a spoke in the wheel of building muscle. My body has always been reluctant to put on muscle and increase strenght, so many can get much farther quicker, than me, but the point is, that it's a journey. And I've also learnt a lot during the whole process and can do things a little better year after year.

I will say, that I don't think it's a good idea to bulk a full year straight, due to several reasons. I'll find and post some videos about it.

Also, recomping sucks in most cases. I've used this example several times and I'll make the claim again, that in 90% of time, one will get better results bulking for 4 months + cutting for 2 months, than they would recomping for 6 months.

"I think many people just hold more fat or don't realize how lean you have to truly be sometimes to see the level of ab definition they want."

This is exactly what happened to me in the beginning. I put all other sports on the back shelf and started only lifting and eating a lot. As I was always a skinny kid as well, every time the scale showed a bigger number, I was pleased. After 9 months I had put on 38 lbs and got quite a bit stronger, but one day realized, that I haven't seen my abs in a long time. I was thinking, that I'll drop 10 lbs and be lean again with all this newly acquired muscle. I had never done a cut before, as I had rather been trying to put weight on. So I ended up dropping 18 lbs and my abs were still not visible and my leaness level not satisfying. I hated the cutting so I still stopped there.

I'm something like 10 lbs lighter right now, than I was in the end of that first real bulk. But my body comp is way better. I estimate that I've put on around ~25 lbs of quality weight during these years. Bulking and cutting, bit by bit.
 
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Smont

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You look lean asf bro, I think I'm not going to reach that point but of course I want at least be able to see my abs ( maybe around 13-14%)
Don't think like that. Your putting limitations on yourself. Remember that this is a long process. It's a lifestyle of sorts. If you spent years looking a certain way you can't expect to reverse years in a matter of weeks. All that matters is you keep moving forward.

I do suggest that anyone who has a end goal of being ripped needs to get ripped as there #1 priority or you may und up in a permabulk which is what most guys do. Can I ask you what your diet looks like. What's a full day of eating for you and how consistently do you eat every meal according to your plan
 

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I edited the above post. I have better pictures in my other phone but I think these were good enough to get a understanding of what I'm trying to get at. Now I'm 210 and bulking again, I'm probably Going to push it up to 230 pounds maybe 240 and then IL probably diet all the way back to 200 and repeat the process till I'm lean at 225-230.

If your natural @5'8 the biggest your probably Going to be able to get while having a 6-pack is 165lbs.

When I was natural I couldn't get much bigger then 175 without putting on a significant amount of bodyfat
You have an insane physique bro congrats, I understand your point I will definitely need more attempts to look leaner and bigger, It's incredible the change at 223lb and then at 195lbs you definitely look bigger and stronger just because bodyfat.
 

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Like Smont said, I would cut to be lean first and then start adding weight and muscle. When getting too fat for your liking, it's time to cut again.
Thanks for your comment bro
 

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A lot of good stuff here. I'll touch on some of them.


This is how it usually goes. After every bulk and every cut, you're trying to be leaner and bigger, than you were previously at that same weight. I've been basically doing that for about 15 years now. Obviously a lot of different things going on in those years and many time periods and situations were training and nutrition has not been optimal or good even + some injuries and other sports taking time and energy and overall just put a spoke in the wheel of building muscle. My body has always been reluctant to put on muscle and increase strenght, so many can get much farther quicker, than me, but the point is, that it's a journey. And I've also learnt a lot during the whole process and can do things a little better year after year.

I will say, that I don't think it's a good idea to bulk a full year straight, due to several reasons. I'll find and post some videos about it.

Also, recomping sucks in most cases. I've used this example several times and I'll make the claim again, that in 90% of time, one will get better results bulking for 4 months + cutting for 2 months, than they would recomping for 6 months.

"I think many people just hold more fat or don't realize how lean you have to truly be sometimes to see the level of ab definition they want."

This is exactly what happened to me in the beginning. I put all other sports on the back shelf and started only lifting and eating a lot. As I was always a skinny kid as well, every time the scale showed a bigger number, I was pleased. After 9 months I had put on 38 lbs and got quite a bit stronger, but one day realized, that I haven't seen my abs in a long time. I was thinking, that I'll drop 10 lbs and be lean again with all this newly acquired muscle. I had never done a cut before, as I had rather been trying to put weight on. So I ended up dropping 18 lbs and my abs were still not visible and my leaness level not satisfying. I hated the cutting so I still stopped there.

I'm something like 10 lbs lighter right now, than I was in the end of that first real bulk. But my body comp is way better. I estimate that I've put on around ~25 lbs of quality weight during these years. Bulking and cutting, bit by bit.
I totally agree, however for someone who's natural don't you think that 4 months of bulking is not enough to make some decent muscle gains? And even when you're cutting being natural if you lose too many pounds, the more pounds you lose, more likely you're going to lose muscle as well
 

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Don't think like that. Your putting limitations on yourself. Remember that this is a long process. It's a lifestyle of sorts. If you spent years looking a certain way you can't expect to reverse years in a matter of weeks. All that matters is you keep moving forward.

I do suggest that anyone who has a end goal of being ripped needs to get ripped as there #1 priority or you may und up in a permabulk which is what most guys do. Can I ask you what your diet looks like. What's a full day of eating for you and how consistently do you eat every meal according to your plan
Yes bro I got you, but on the other hand I'm natty so I have to diminish my expectations a bit, ofc I'm gonna post a screenshot in a few minutes about my diet
 
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I totally agree, however for someone who's natural don't you think that 4 months of bulking is not enough to make some decent muscle gains? And even when you're cutting being natural if you lose too many pounds, the more pounds you lose, more likely you're going to lose muscle as well
Even on steroids most ppl will only build about 10-15lbs of muscle per YEAR, after the initial steroid newb gains. And each year the number goes down, Sure you will gain 20 or 30 on a big cycle but a lot is water weight and glycogen.

A natural guy typically can add 10-15lbs of muscle there first year of serious training and after that your lucky to add more then 1-5lbs a year of actual muscle mass. And the more advanced you get the harder it is to gain.

Once you get lean and have abs a good bulking goal is about 1-2 lb per week. And then when cutting loosing about 1-2lb per week. After a 3 month bulk and a 3 month cut I would expect a intermediate natural lifter to have added 1-2 lbs of muscle.

My opinions here but I feel like most natural lifters have the ability to add 25-40lbs of muscle in a lifetime and a enhanced lifter 50-100lbs+
 
Smont

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Basically when your natural you have 3 options. Small and ripped, big and fluffy or just hanging out somewhere in the middle. You will very rarely find a really big and ripped natural guy
 
Smont

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I'm heading back to work, il check your diet out later tonight if you post it
 

Resolve10

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Hey bro, first of all thanks for your time answering this and giving your opinion, I appreciate it. Yeah my fat percentage is one of my issues, as I've written I have never be able to see my abs, but I know what you mean I think in this case is going to be tougher to be lean maybe I'll have to make more attempts, it's a bit overwhelming though. So I'm gonna keep doing what I'm doing until reach the weight that I have in mind, what if I have to lose more weight than expected to get a decent bodyfat? I keep cutting or just start another bulking and wait until the other cut?
Answering bold.

It really just depends on what YOU want. Honestly at a certain point who cares how much you weigh if you look the way you want? If you cut to 160 but you don't look the way you want, but cutting to 150 gets you there then do that. If you aren't as big as you want at that point then just go back to some bulking again and rinse and repeat.

FWIW my body-weight is lower than most people would guess or say they would want to be, but I pretty much never have people in real life think I am "small". People's perceptions are weird, being lean and jacked is usually a lot lower in body-weight than people think or people tend to just actually be holding more fat than they believe at higher weights, just tends to be how it is.

It is all a long process though, you will need to learn to just get into it and keep moving. The video from RP above is some good advice. I probably "bulk" slower and more in what most would consider like a recomp, but honestly some of it is personal preference, goals, temperament, etc.
 

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Even on steroids most ppl will only build about 10-15lbs of muscle per YEAR, after the initial steroid newb gains. And each year the number goes down, Sure you will gain 20 or 30 on a big cycle but a lot is water weight and glycogen.

A natural guy typically can add 10-15lbs of muscle there first year of serious training and after that your lucky to add more then 1-5lbs a year of actual muscle mass. And the more advanced you get the harder it is to gain.

Once you get lean and have abs a good bulking goal is about 1-2 lb per week. And then when cutting loosing about 1-2lb per week. After a 3 month bulk and a 3 month cut I would expect a intermediate natural lifter to have added 1-2 lbs of muscle.

My opinions here but I feel like most natural lifters have the ability to add 25-40lbs of muscle in a lifetime and a enhanced lifter 50-100lbs+
Do you think someone natural is going to have some gains only bulking for 3 months? My way to think about it was doing a large period of bulking ( like I did), because I've always read that 3-4 months is not enough and building muscle is a slow process
 

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Answering bold.

It really just depends on what YOU want. Honestly at a certain point who cares how much you weigh if you look the way you want? If you cut to 160 but you don't look the way you want, but cutting to 150 gets you there then do that. If you aren't as big as you want at that point then just go back to some bulking again and rinse and repeat.

FWIW my body-weight is lower than most people would guess or say they would want to be, but I pretty much never have people in real life think I am "small". People's perceptions are weird, being lean and jacked is usually a lot lower in body-weight than people think or people tend to just actually be holding more fat than they believe at higher weights, just tends to be how it is.

It is all a long process though, you will need to learn to just get into it and keep moving. The video from RP above is some good advice. I probably "bulk" slower and more in what most would consider like a recomp, but honestly some of it is personal preference, goals, temperament, etc.
Yes, in my case I have to admit that I don't want to be as lean asf, just having a leaner body overall, but the situation get into a difficult path because of my bodyfat percentage, I wasn't aware before and this is the first time I actually cut.
Thanks for answering dude
 
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Do you think someone natural is going to have some gains only bulking for 3 months? My way to think about it was doing a large period of bulking ( like I did), because I've always read that 3-4 months is not enough and building muscle is a slow process
I already answered that in my other post. Yes a small amount, longer bulks will be better given you don't gain too much fat. If the outline of my abs dissappear than that let's me know I'm gaining too much fat and it's time to cut. That's why I suggest to get lean first.
 

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I'm heading back to work, il check your diet out later tonight if you post it
This is and example of what I'm eating today, I didn't know how to switch up the language, so let me know if you don't get something:
I'm eating about 0.8-1lb per pound of protein and in a deficit of four hundred calories
 

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Smont

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This is me about 82kg(180,7lbs), I've lost some belly,waist and arms, I started at 86(189lbs) like I mentioned before :
Your less then 20% bf. You could probably get abs in 8 weeks going by those pictures
 

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Your less then 20% bf. You could probably get abs in 8 weeks going by those pictures
Well then I just keep it up and see how my body goes, thanks for your time dude I appreciate it again
 
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When bulking and trying to build muscle, you have to be in a surplus and some fat gain usually has to be accepted. But there's no reason to gain more fat, than you 'have to' in order to gain muscle. The leaner you start, the more room you have on gaining fat in the process, and thus can bulk for longer. But there are other reasons too to not just gain endlessly. Those reasons are explained in the video I posted.

Like has been already said, don't get fixated on the scale reading. Mirror tells the bigger story. There's also something to be said about being leaner and how it can 'create an illusion' of bigger size. I've had more than one instances, where I haven't seen someone in some time, and I've had a cutting phase somewhere inbetween in us seeing each other, and they make some comment, that I've grown and I'm like, well I'm actually 10 lbs lighter, than I was when we last saw.
 

Resolve10

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Do you think someone natural is going to have some gains only bulking for 3 months? My way to think about it was doing a large period of bulking ( like I did), because I've always read that 3-4 months is not enough and building muscle is a slow process
Just check the video referenced below. There are a ton of variables that go into it, but I just wouldn't overthink it different people and scenarios will call for different approaches.

When bulking and trying to build muscle, you have to be in a surplus and some fat gain usually has to be accepted. But there's no reason to gain more fat, than you 'have to' in order to gain muscle. The leaner you start, the more room you have on gaining fat in the process, and thus can bulk for longer. But there are other reasons too to not just gain endlessly. Those reasons are explained in the video I posted.

Like has been already said, don't get fixated on the scale reading. Mirror tells the bigger story. There's also something to be said about being leaner and how it can 'create an illusion' of bigger size. I've had more than one instances, where I haven't seen someone in some time, and I've had a cutting phase somewhere inbetween in us seeing each other, and they make some comment, that I've grown and I'm like, well I'm actually 10 lbs lighter, than I was when we last saw.
^^^
 
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Well then I just keep it up and see how my body goes, thanks for your time dude I appreciate it again
Ya I would keep doing what your doing. I would probably increase protein a little, maybe 180gm a day, keep fats around 80gm and the remainder of yiur calories from carbs. I'd also keep the majority of my carbs around my workouts on training days. Seeing how your only eating 2200 calories a day I would opt to increase my cardio before going under 2000cal

So say your slowly loosing weight and you stall on 2200 calories. Add in 30 to 45 min of cardio every other day or even 15-20min every day first thing in the morning or after lifting. Then when you hit a wall again reduce to 2000, when you hit a wall again increase cardio by a extra 10-15min per day.

Just that little sequence over the next 6 to 8 weeks should give you a decent amount of fat loss at a steady pace.
 

VtaperXO

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When bulking and trying to build muscle, you have to be in a surplus and some fat gain usually has to be accepted. But there's no reason to gain more fat, than you 'have to' in order to gain muscle. The leaner you start, the more room you have on gaining fat in the process, and thus can bulk for longer. But there are other reasons too to not just gain endlessly. Those reasons are explained in the video I posted.

Like has been already said, don't get fixated on the scale reading. Mirror tells the bigger story. There's also something to be said about being leaner and how it can 'create an illusion' of bigger size. I've had more than one instances, where I haven't seen someone in some time, and I've had a cutting phase somewhere inbetween in us seeing each other, and they make some comment, that I've grown and I'm like, well I'm actually 10 lbs lighter, than I was when we last saw.
I already watched the vid,Yeah like you said, the idea is look bigger being leaner, it could be a bit overwhelming losing more weight than you were expected but it has to be done.
Thanks
 

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Just check the video referenced below. There are a ton of variables that go into it, but I just wouldn't overthink it different people and scenarios will call for different approaches.



^^^
Yes, great info, I suppose it works different depending on each individual.
 

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Ya I would keep doing what your doing. I would probably increase protein a little, maybe 180gm a day, keep fats around 80gm and the remainder of yiur calories from carbs. I'd also keep the majority of my carbs around my workouts on training days. Seeing how your only eating 2200 calories a day I would opt to increase my cardio before going under 2000cal

So say your slowly loosing weight and you stall on 2200 calories. Add in 30 to 45 min of cardio every other day or even 15-20min every day first thing in the morning or after lifting. Then when you hit a wall again reduce to 2000, when you hit a wall again increase cardio by a extra 10-15min per day.

Just that little sequence over the next 6 to 8 weeks should give you a decent amount of fat loss at a steady pace.
I'm doing low intensity twice a week (30 minutes per session), I'll keep my calories there like you said and add other session of cardio if I need it. Perfect dude I'll increase a little my protein intake to 170-180gr.
 

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The thread was quite informative. My brother is having this same issue these days and he discussed it with me. I didn’t have much info on it before but I think this will help him too.
 

VtaperXO

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The thread was quite informative. My brother is having this same issue these days and he discussed it with me. I didn’t have much info on it before but I think this will help him too.
That's good to hear, how's the process of your brother so far?
 

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UPDATING 11 weeks cutting:
This week I'm starting my eleventh week cutting, I've increased the cardio when i stalled and it worked so far.
My weight is currently 80,4kg (177,4 pounds) so that in terms of weight I'm doing good BUT Idk if it's just me but I'm not seeing myself leaner or shredded, I mean I haven't noticed any definition on my muscles even my abs aren't still there 💀, My abs are pretty small tho, bad genetic 💀. But in general I've lost almost 7 kg but it doesn't look like that. Have you guys experienced this?
 

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Your less then 20% bf. You could probably get abs in 8 weeks going by those pictures
Well like smont said here , maybe I should wait more weeks but it's just kind of weird. My body was always skinny fat and It's hard to reduce you bf or have some definition
 

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