The Adventures of Judo Josh

1. Me too!!! :love: It is almost to the point I am feeling like I have become too dependent on them. I take some kind of nutrient partioneer with all carb meals. Even when I am just eating a piece of fruit, most of the times I pop a cap of barberine 15mins prior. I was actually thikning about taking time off from all GDAs so I can make an actual objective thought about their effects. Right now they are my best friend. I never leave home with a couple caps :D

Don't give up on your best friend! :)

Currently I have a bottle of recompadrol sitting in my NP cart that I am about to order. You and stakedcop and been raving about it so I figured I would give it a try next.

YOU... WILL... LOVE IT!!!

2. WMS = Waxy Maize Starch. Was the ? because you weren't familiar with the accroynom or questioning why I would take WMS post workout? I am not familiar with Maxx Xxplosion, Karbo-LYN or Vitargo. I will have to look into those products. I have WMS on hand (a big ol tube of it) I also have a tub og Golden Gains but to me that stuff taste like :booty:, which reminds me I have to mail a scoop of it to a rep. Apparently I may have a bunk batch of it, I know people swear its delicious but to me its barely tolarable. I am hoiping it is just a bunk batch.

Yes, I was just curious why WMS? Karbo-LYN has an excellent digestibility, and Vitargo is also faster than pure Dextrose and easy on the stomach.

As for the comparrioson study, I have Na-Rala on hand, got a tub from nutraplanet and made my caps with them already. I don't know if I ever came across a study that compares the various forms of ALA, but I thought there was a general consensus that Na-rala was better :dunno: I never really questioned it and just accepted it. Maybe I should look into it more?

I would be interested to see if Geranova has performed any research on blood sugar and just compare that to known results of r-ala.
 
Thank Rosie, my main question was if those studies were going to be applicable to a weight lifter or not. I just assumed since they were performed on people cycling for an extended period of time it may have been primarily aerobic and weight lifting is primarily anaerobic BUT than again would it even matter? Fat can be utilized as energy in both energy systems right??

As far as the links you posted, I am not a member of the NSCA and couldn't read that one and I am downloading the SHR episode now and will listen to it on my drive to and from work tomorrow. I did do a little more searching on it and found some postings of Layne Norton on another forum in regards to fasted training. In one of his postings he references this study



The bold part confuses me. The way I am reading it is the subjects were given a carb drink during the exercise regardless if they were fasted prior or not. Also would the fact that all of their diets were 65% carbs, 20% fat, & 15% protein effect the results at all? Your typical weightlifter would probably have a way different macro ratio and I am not sure how that would effect the results. For a low carb person wouldn't their body be more efficient at burning stored body fat for energy, so when put in a postion of needing energy the body would be able to turn to fat for fuel more efficiently than a person whose body is used to having carbs as their primary source of energy?

I also found this quote by Layne So if his concern is that the fasted state workout would suppress protein synthesis wouldn't supplementing with a BCAA mix either before, during, or both counteract that?

I think I will use this to start branching into my next plan which is my intra-workout nutrition.

Previously I have always used Xtend during all training sessions. I love xtend and believe that while I am in a calorie deficit the extra aminos taken during and immediately after my workouts help me retain muscle and it prevents catabolism. I have noticed a lot of peoples fear with fasted workout is the body will start to break down muscle for its glucose needs. I think by taking in the aminos you prevent this from happening..

But here raises a couple more questions:

Does taking in aminos then provide fuel for your workout and prevent the fat loss? If so to what extent?
If the aminos are being used strictly for energy during a workout then is its function no different than say Gatorade?
The answer here lies in the added benefit of increased protein synthesis. Both glucose and aminos can be easily converted into ATP, but glucose alone will not increase protein synthesis. Also the type of training will come into effecthere. I take no aminos before a low impact "aerobic range" cardio session. I am not looking to burn ATP at that point. I am looking to exhaust the ATP stores while in an oxygen saturated state making the fat burning easier. However on the same note over a 24 hour period there is not much difference in fat burned from that or HIIT. I have read a couple studies stating that it is irrevalent. So then the goal there is cortisol release or not. HIIT in a truly fasted state will result in a stress situation causing cortisol. However when aminos are used this is not the case. So HIIT gets Aminos, and true aerobics IE low intensity I want minimal substrate available to use so that fat burning happens at a sightly higher rate.

Also I see you mention the Layne Norton that exercising after fasting causes a decrease in protein synthesis. this is due to the cortisol release as far as I can tell. However you have to also remember that this will cause the body to have a rebound effect when the nutrients are supplied because the body now sees a need to not only repair but fortify the damage from that situation.

GDA's are great but I don't find them needed as much as before now that I am doing Intermittent Fasting. However when taking in some really questionable stuff I like to throw a little berberine in the mix for the effect it has retarding the Glut4 reaction in the fat cells. Even though after a fast the body will feed the muscle first then start storing fat next.

Don't give up on your best friend! :)

YOU... WILL... LOVE IT!!!

Yes, I was just curious why WMS? Karbo-LYN has an excellent digestibility, and Vitargo is also faster than pure Dextrose and easy on the stomach.

I would be interested to see if Geranova has performed any research on blood sugar and just compare that to known results of r-ala.

WMS is a good quality for someone who wants a longer lasting carb but not for someone looking to get a huge boost of insulin then return back to baseline blood sugar levels. I no longer use WMS because my goal is the latter. It really just depends on the goal. I have yet to try vitargo, but now that I am doing the IF, I am thinking I may very well give it a shot. I just don't really seem to get hypoglycemic any more since changing to IF.
 
Judo said:

I also found this quote by Layne So if his concern is that the fasted state workout would suppress protein synthesis wouldn't supplementing with a BCAA mix either before, during, or both counteract that?

Yes, this has actually been studied - a very interesting article with citations in FLEX a couple months ago actually advocated with evidence a scoop of whey isolate or hydrolysate prior to doing cardio. Results of fat loss were actually BETTER by supplementing with protein beforehand rather than fasted/empty stomach!
 
Judo said:



Yes, this has actually been studied - a very interesting article with citations in FLEX a couple months ago actually advocated with evidence a scoop of whey isolate or hydrolysate prior to doing cardio. Results of fat loss were actually BETTER by supplementing with protein beforehand rather than fasted/empty stomach!

So WPI are better then BCAA pre cardio?
 
Yes, this has actually been studied - a very interesting article with citations in FLEX a couple months ago actually advocated with evidence a scoop of whey isolate or hydrolysate prior to doing cardio. Results of fat loss were actually BETTER by supplementing with protein beforehand rather than fasted/empty stomach!

I think the added benefit would probably be related to the body being put in a positive nitrogen balance and not releasing cortisol as a result. That is just my thoughts not having read something specific but it makes sense. Less cortisol more fat burn. I have started adding in 8 grams of my amino/whey peptide/glutamine mix pre cardio this morning. Wasn't due to this but my thought was just why not limit cortisol release by kick starting protein synthesis. I burn way more than 36 cals consistently when I do cardio, ;) So why not make sure to spare muscle regardless if only adding in 36 calories via the mix.
 
not familiar with ART, what are you gonna do it for?

ART is Active Release Therapy, is is myofascial release treatment and very effective if you have a good practitioner one of the best forms of MFR out there.
 
I have started adding in 8 grams of my amino/whey peptide/glutamine mix pre cardio this morning. Wasn't due to this but my thought was just why not limit cortisol release by kick starting protein synthesis.

I more recent issue of FLEX mentioned that anything listed as Whey Peptide is actually whey hydrolysate. PsyKO, from Controlled Labs (I am on/logging right now) is a rich di/tri peptide intra workout supplement.

I wonder if this then would be ideal before or even during cardio? I guess what my remaining curiosity is, is whether or not the entire whey amino acid spectrum is important, or if something more isolated and broken down would suffice prior to cardio?
 
I more recent issue of FLEX mentioned that anything listed as Whey Peptide is actually whey hydrolysate. PsyKO, from Controlled Labs (I am on/logging right now) is a rich di/tri peptide intra workout supplement.

I wonder if this then would be ideal before or even during cardio? I guess what my remaining curiosity is, is whether or not the entire whey amino acid spectrum is important, or if something more isolated and broken down would suffice prior to cardio?

That is a good question, I have a feeling it would suffice. However that is just a hunch.
 
Nice convo going on here.. looks like ima have to play catch up in my own log..

Here we go..


Don't give up on your best friend! :)

YOU... WILL... LOVE IT!!!

I gave in and ordered a bottle... got me a bottle of slin sane too and a bottle of forskolin. Gonna take all three with my na-rala caps.. hopefully it is magical :fingersx:

The answer here lies in the added benefit of increased protein synthesis. Both glucose and aminos can be easily converted into ATP, but glucose alone will not increase protein synthesis. Also the type of training will come into effecthere. I take no aminos before a low impact "aerobic range" cardio session. I am not looking to burn ATP at that point. I am looking to exhaust the ATP stores while in an oxygen saturated state making the fat burning easier. However on the same note over a 24 hour period there is not much difference in fat burned from that or HIIT. I have read a couple studies stating that it is irrevalent. So then the goal there is cortisol release or not. HIIT in a truly fasted state will result in a stress situation causing cortisol. However when aminos are used this is not the case. So HIIT gets Aminos, and true aerobics IE low intensity I want minimal substrate available to use so that fat burning happens at a sightly higher rate.

Also I see you mention the Layne Norton that exercising after fasting causes a decrease in protein synthesis. this is due to the cortisol release as far as I can tell. However you have to also remember that this will cause the body to have a rebound effect when the nutrients are supplied because the body now sees a need to not only repair but fortify the damage from that situation.

GDA's are great but I don't find them needed as much as before now that I am doing Intermittent Fasting. However when taking in some really questionable stuff I like to throw a little berberine in the mix for the effect it has retarding the Glut4 reaction in the fat cells. Even though after a fast the body will feed the muscle first then start storing fat next.

Thanks for pointing those out Kleen, in hindsight I dont know why I even asked the question comparing the two. It was just a thought that popped into my head and I typed it :type:

WMS is a good quality for someone who wants a longer lasting carb but not for someone looking to get a huge boost of insulin then return back to baseline blood sugar levels. I no longer use WMS because my goal is the latter. It really just depends on the goal. I have yet to try vitargo, but now that I am doing the IF, I am thinking I may very well give it a shot. I just don't really seem to get hypoglycemic any more since changing to IF.

I will be making th IF switch soon myself, just getting some reading done on it first.

Judo said:


Yes, this has actually been studied - a very interesting article with citations in FLEX a couple months ago actually advocated with evidence a scoop of whey isolate or hydrolysate prior to doing cardio. Results of fat loss were actually BETTER by supplementing with protein beforehand rather than fasted/empty stomach!

Awesome! So the BCAA supplementation should be good :thumbsup:

I have also been seeing some studies and other articles and seeing an increased importance of 5-10g BCAAs prior to the workout. Usually I just start sipping my whey when I am halfway into my workout but now I am going to start putting a scoop of BCAAs into my preworkout along with my Xtend intra workout

So WPI are better then BCAA pre cardio?

I think it would depend on the amino profile of the whey.

I don't remember if they put them head-to-head, but yes, I think it was better because of the full amino acid profile.

:yup: but why not just use a BCAA product?

not familiar with ART, what are you gonna do it for?

Active Release Technique

This is a soft-tissue therapy which breaks down scar tissue in muscle, allowing the muscle to heal and function properly. It so like a massege but so much more (or supposed to be at least)

The reason you foam roll is to break up the adhensions or scar tissue that builds up from intense exercise, well ART has the same goal but instead of a foam roller the thearipst uses their hands to remove or break up the adhesions along with stretching motions that are in the direction of venous and lymphatic flow.

Here are some videos





ART is Active Release Therapy, is is myofascial release treatment and very effective if you have a good practitioner one of the best forms of MFR out there.

Have you ever had it done Kleen?

I have looked on the official website for ART and found a couple therapist nearby and thinking of setting up a session. Have to check if they take my insurance first and if my insurance will cover it. My insurance covers chiro vists so I am sure ART would be covered too since they are usually chrios

I more recent issue of FLEX mentioned that anything listed as Whey Peptide is actually whey hydrolysate. PsyKO, from Controlled Labs (I am on/logging right now) is a rich di/tri peptide intra workout supplement.

I wonder if this then would be ideal before or even during cardio? I guess what my remaining curiosity is, is whether or not the entire whey amino acid spectrum is important, or if something more isolated and broken down would suffice prior to cardio?

BigT logged PsyKO and has me interested in trying it out

As for amino acids here are a few more studies.

Happy Reading :D


Combined effects of caloric restriction and branched-chain amino acid supplementation on body composition and exercise performance in elite wrestlers.

Mourier A, Bigard AX, de Kerviler E, Roger B, Legrand H, Guezennec CY.

Centre d'Etudes et de Recherches de Médecine Aérospatiale, Département de Physiologie Systémique, Brétigny-sur-orge, France.

Abstract
Twenty-five competitive wrestlers restricted their caloric intake (28 kcal.kg-1.day-1) for 19 days, using a hypocaloric control (hC, n = 6), hypocaloric high-protein (hHP, n = 7), hypocaloric high-branched-chain amino acid (hBCAA, n = 6), hypocaloric low-protein (hLP, n = 6) diet to determine the effects of caloric restriction on body composition and performances versus control diet (C, n = 6). Anthropometric parameters (weight, percent body fat) and adipose tissue (AT) distribution measured by magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) obtained before and after diet, were compared. A significant highest body weight loss (-4 kg, p < 0.05) and decrease in the percent of body fat (-17.3%, p < 0.05) were observed for subjects of the hBCAA group. Subjects of the hBCAA group exhibited a significant reduction (-34.4%, p < 0.05) in abdominal visceral adipose tissue (VAT). There was no change in aerobic (VO2max) (p > 0.75) and anaerobic capacities (Wingate test) (p > 0.81), and in muscular strength (p > 0.82). We conclude that under our experimental conditions, the combination of moderate energy restriction and BCAA supplementation induced significant and preferential losses of VAT, and allowed maintainance of a high level of performance

Branched-chain amino acids increase p70S6k phosphorylation in human skeletal muscle after resistance exercise
Håkan K. R. Karlsson,1,2,* Per-Anders Nilsson,1,3,* Johnny Nilsson,1 Alexander V. Chibalin,2 Juleen R. Zierath,2 and Eva Blomstrand1,3

1Department of Health and Sport Sciences, University College of Physical Education and Sports, Stockholm S-114 86; 2Section Integrative Physiology, Department of Surgical Sciences, Karolinska Institute, Stockholm, S-171 77; and 3Department of Physiology and Pharmacology, Karolinska Institute, Stockholm, S-171 76, Sweden

Submitted 25 September 2003 ; accepted in final form 24 February 2004

ABSTRACT

The aim of the study was to investigate the effect of resistance exercise alone or in combination with oral intake of branched-chain amino acids (BCAA) on phosphorylation of the 70-kDa S6 protein kinase (p70S6k) and mitogen-activated protein kinase (MAPK), extracellular signal-regulated kinase (ERK1/2), and p38 MAPK in skeletal muscle. Seven male subjects performed one session of quadriceps muscle resistance training (4 x 10 repetitions at 80% of one repetition maximum) on two occasions. In a randomized order, double-blind, crossover test, subjects ingested a solution of BCAA or placebo during and after exercise. Ingestion of BCAA increased plasma concentrations of isoleucine, leucine, and valine during exercise and throughout recovery after exercise (2 h postexercise), whereas no change was noted after the placebo trial. Resistance exercise led to a robust increase in p70S6k phosphorylation at Ser424 and/or Thr421, which persisted 1 and 2 h after exercise. BCAA ingestion further enhanced p70S6k phosphorylation 3.5-fold during recovery. p70S6k phosphorylation at Thr389 was unaltered directly after resistance exercise. However, during recovery, Thr389 phosphorylation was profoundly increased, but only during the BCAA trial. Furthermore, phosphorylation of the ribosomal protein S6 was also increased in the recovery period only during the BCAA trial. Exercise led to a marked increase in ERK1/2 and p38 MAPK phosphorylation, which was completely suppressed upon recovery and unaltered by BCAA. In conclusion, BCAA, ingested during and after resistance exercise, mediate signal transduction through p70S6k in skeletal muscle.
exercise training; mitogen-activated protein kinase; protein synthesis; signal transduction

Here is the full study - Invalid Link Removed

Higher Branched-Chain Amino Acid Intake Is Associated with a Lower Prevalence of Being Overweight or Obese in Middle-Aged East Asian and Western Adults.

Abstract
Beneficial effects on body weight of supplementation with BCAA, including leucine, isoleucine, and valine, have been observed in animal and human studies. However, population-based studies on dietary BCAA intake and body weight are lacking. The objective of this study was to examine the association between dietary BCAA intake and risk of overweight status/obesity among multi-ethnic populations. The International Study of Macro-/Micronutrients and Blood Pressure is a cross-sectional epidemiological investigation in China, Japan, the UK, and the US. The study cohort included 4429 men and women ages 40-59 y who were free of diabetes. Diet was assessed by 4 multi-pass 24-h recalls; data on nutrients including BCAA were derived from country-specific food tables. Overweight status and obesity were defined as BMI ≥ 25 and BMI ≥ 30 kg/m(2), respectively. Multivariable-adjusted OR of overweight status/obesity and 95% CI by quartiles of BCAA intake were estimated by logistic regression. Mean BCAA intake was 2.6 ± 0.6% energy; intake was significantly lower among Chinese participants and similar among participants from the other 3 countries. Compared with those in the first quartile, the multivariable-adjusted OR (95% CI) of overweight status from the 2nd to 4th quartiles of BCAA intake were 0.97 (0.80-1.17), 0.91 (0.75-1.11), and 0.70 (0.57-0.86), respectively (P-trend < 0.01). BCAA intake and obesity were also inversely associated (P-trend = 0.03). In conclusion, higher dietary BCAA intake is associated with lower prevalence of overweight status/obesity among apparently healthy middle-aged adults from East Asian and Western countries.
 
BigT logged PsyKO and has me interested in trying it out
As for amino acids here are a few more studies.

Awe man - I love to read, truly... but I'm so swamped with research, write ups, and web interfacing duties it's hard to get to it, especially on Fridays.

I tell you what, I like PsyKO a LOT... so you tell me whether or not there is any type of refractory I need to be worried about.

ACTUALLY... the one thing that's been weighing on my mind, is whether or now all this refractory business applies to steroid assisted athlete, since their ability to increase nitrogen retention and signal protein synthesis is uncanny?
 
Awe man - I love to read, truly... but I'm so swamped with research, write ups, and web interfacing duties it's hard to get to it, especially on Fridays.

I tell you what, I like PsyKO a LOT... so you tell me whether or not there is any type of refractory I need to be worried about.

ACTUALLY... the one thing that's been weighing on my mind, is whether or now all this refractory business applies to steroid assisted athlete, since their ability to increase nitrogen retention and signal protein synthesis is uncanny?

I honestly am not sure, I am not too familiar with anabolic steroid usage or how it effects the body but if I had to speculate I would say an product such as PsyKO should still be taken while on a cycle. While steroids such as nandrolone will promote nitrogen storage in muscle cells, giving you a positive nitrogen balance, then the cell would contain more protein for repair and growth than it normally would BUT all of this would only be possible if above normal calories were ingested and had a focus on protein. You would need extra protein to take advantage of the increased nitrogen storage that the steroid has blessed you with. I would still go with BCAAs around my workout regardless of being on a cycle or not.

What I believe is results are what matter. Regardless of what a study says if you are getting results with fasted workouts, fed state workouts, WMS pre cardio, whatever.

Personally I am taking 10g BCAAs pre workout, 4 scoops Xtend intra workout, and 10g BCAAs post workout.

I havent used PsyKO yet, but it is on my to try list, and I havent even really read the profile of it yet but I believe BCAAs to be superior to whey around your workouts. The BCAAs in whey are peptide bound to other amino acids and must be liberated through digestion & absorbed into the bloodstream where free form BCAAs require no digestion and are rapidly absorbed into the bloodstream, spiking blood amino acids to much more than peptide bound amino acids from whey IMO
 
Been really busy but just to get a word in, I am really enjoying this "log" so far. Thank goodness I enjoy reading so much.
 
Workout Program

Okay so little about my new workout program that I am trying out..

The program is based upon Undulating Periodization & Escalated Density Training.

First a brief background on the two:

Undulating Periodization is a training program where the variables re volume, intensity and tempo, change with each workout.

I have been using a Conjugate sequence system and now am going to try and experiment with this. I am not a fan of linear block periodization, which is where you would break your training up into blocks or time periods where you have a main focus on specific skills re strength, fat loss, hypertrophy, etc..

Here are some excerpts that can maybe explain it a little better

Undulating Periodization involves the acute variation of volume and intensity on a weekly (microcycle) or daily basis. According Poliquin, this schedule allows for minimal risk of overtraining and plateau like adaptation,
while allowing for maximal training effect. This, in contrast to linear block training models, which “lose their efficacy after only two weeks” (23, 24). In his investigation, Poliquin concluded, “that if the stimulus is provided
in the exact same way, results would diminish over time (23,25).” This theory holds true to Seyle’s general adaptation theory, in that there needs to be exposure to stimulus or stress for adaptation to occur (26). Utilizing the
undulating periodization model with what he refers to as an “Accumulation Phase” where the main stressor is volume and an “Intensification Phase” where intensity is the main stressor, Poliquin has guided many of the
world’s top athletes to success at all levels. The aforementioned Dr. Bondarchuk stated the importance of “block” periodization, but included in each block must be an undulation of load and intensity. He states “ we are convinced that loads of different intensities should be used in the workouts of highly qualified athletes in each session during the preparatory and competitive periods. Skillful alternation of these loads will help the athlete to learn and improve technique, develop the needed speed-strength, and obtain the best post workout restoration (27).” Below is an example of 1 microcycle of undulating periodization.

Recently published research from Arizona State University has shown that a method of structuring the set and rep protocols in a vastly different manner – called undulating periodization – has proven to be especially effective in inducing maximum strength gains when compared to traditional linear or alternating periodization models.

Linear periodization is when the reps are decreased each successive phase and the loads are increased, e.g. phase one 15 reps, phase two 12 reps, phase three 10 reps, phase four 8 reps. Alternating periodization is when the trainee switches between higher reps and lower reps at each phase, e.g. phase one 15 reps, phase two 8 reps, phase three 12 reps, phase four 6 reps, etc.

Undulating periodization takes the adjusting of rep protocols one step further. This system actually adjusts the rep bracket with each workout.


Adaptation Conundrum

Traditional thinking states that the body adapts to a workout in as little as six exposures. In actuality, the body adapts to the rep range the fastest and the exercise selection the slowest. So, we need to change the rep bracket more often than we change the exercises. Typically, a trainee will change the exercises first, and often spend long periods of time in each rep bracket – not the most effective training system.

However, we still need repeated exposure to certain movement patterns in order to improve optimally. So, in reality, we're left with a conundrum – repeat the workout as often as possible to gain repeated exposure and maximize the adaptations, but repeat it as little as possible so as to still keep the stimulus fresh and maximize the adaptations.

Hmmm.

With traditional periodization, this means that a workout will "work" for at most three to four weeks. This is when we change the routine to prevent staleness, introduce a new stimulus, and keep the body adapting positively. Typically what happens is we change the exercises and the reps.

With undulating periodization and the variable rep system, we take this a step further. You won't repeat the same workout for over four weeks. This means the body won't have adapted, i.e. you won't need to begin a new routine for close to twelve weeks, despite the fact that you're hitting each body part once a week and performing the same exercises every week.

This will take you right through the holidays without getting stale. In fact, you could easily stay on this program for a longer period of time. As we aren't repeating the same rep range for four weeks, you could do the entire program for eight to twelve weeks and then just switch the exercises. A constant challenge equals constant improvements.


The Geeky Science Behind Undulating Periodization

The May 2002 issue of The Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research reported that experienced strength trainers who followed this type of training program doubled their strength increases as compared to a traditional training control group. It concludes that ongoing strength gains for those who've hit plateaus may be developed from this type of training.

My immediate "outside the box" thinking led me to the conclusion that if this workout system was superior to regular periodization, then the benefits during a period of low-frequency training would be even better.

In the interests of clarification as to how I use the method, I've included a workout split (based on a movement pattern split) with some very basic exercises that I use with my athletes. You don't need to follow this split, nor do you need to select these exercises. What you do need to stick to though is the sets and rep parameters. In practice, just alternate between the two exercise routines and move to the next rep range as prescribed below.

However, due to the unique loading parameters, you'll actually train each program, in terms of exercise, three times before ever repeating a rep scheme. The fun part is the variety of doing so many different routines. The exciting part is that as you only repeat each workout every three weeks or so, you can stay with this program for longer and make better and faster gains than you typically would. It'll be approximately week four before you repeat a workout.

The temptation of this type of workout is to change the exercises every single time as well. I urge you not to do this. As much as you need variation, you still need repeated exposure to the same exercises to really get the benefit. Stick with the first exercises you choose for at least the first four to six weeks before changing

Sources:
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Now Escalated Density Training (EDT):

The structure an EDT program uses training blocks which typically last 15-20 minutes, followed by 5-10 minute rest period. In each block, two antagonistic exercises are performed in an alternative superset, re 1a and 1b.

What I am gonna do is start off with 5 min blocks with 2 min rest and work my way up to 8 mins. I may try a couple 15 or 20 min blocks towards the end when I get more used to it.

Here is how EDT works. Take two antagonistic muscles for each workout such as the quads and hamstrings. For example, lets use squats and stiff-legged deadlifts to illustrate. Go back and forth between squats and stiff-legged deadlifts for as many sets as you can in a designated time period such as twenty minutes. Charles refers to this twenty-minute period as a "PR Zone." Choose a training load that you can complete ten times with solid form and do multiple sets of three to five for as many sets as possible in each "PR Zone."

While training to failure should be avoided, feel free to take your final sets to the limit in order to achieve as many reps as possible. Just do not compromise form to do so. Keep the rest breaks short in between each set and only rest as long as you need. I recommend that you use a stopwatch to stay on track. Make sure to take advantage of a training journal and record the number of total reps that you complete for each exercise after each "PR Zone."

For example, if you completed forty total reps on squats with 315lbs, your goal at the next squat workout is to achieve a minimum of forty-one reps. As long as you are doing more reps at each workout, you will make progress and increase strength and size. Here is an example of an EDT program that I tried with kettlebells:

Escalating Density Training" is a training method devised by strength coach, Charles Stanley. What distinguishes EDT from other methods is its emphasis on training 'density' which is defined as the work-to-rest ratio of a specified period of time.

EDT protocol is surprisingly easy to program and implement. Workouts are structured around 15 minute "PR Zones" in which the trainee will alternate between two exercises, usually antagonist or distantly located muscle groups (such as curls and tricep extensions, or squats and chins). Initially, weights used will be more or less equal to the trainee's 10 rep maximum. The trainee will start a stopwatch and then begin his sets; performing a set with exercise A, take a short rest, perform a set with exercise B, take a short rest, and then start again with exercise A - this is continued until the 15 minutes has expired. Total reps for each exercise are recorded and when that "PR Zone" is performed again, the trainee will try to break his/her record.

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The goal is to increase the volume (sets x reps) that I can do within each 5 minute training block. I will start off using a weight that I can perform 12 reps with and during my first set bang 10 out and then from there on they are all till failure.

An EDT block would look something like this:
Set 1: Squats - x 10
Set 2: Chins - x 10
Set 3: Squats - x 8
Set 4: Chins - x 7
Set 5: Squats - x 6
Set 6: Chins - x 7
Set 7: Squats - x 4
Set 8: Chins - x 6

and you keep going until the timer goes off.

I got me a gymboss interval timer and it works perfect. I have it set with the block time and with the rest time.

The combination of the two

I will be using UND for my primary exercises and EDT for my supplemental ones. In summary UND = Multi-joint, compound exercises with high intensity and variable volumes. EDT = High lactate acid environment with minimal rest.

I would go into the benefits of lactic acid training, which I believe EDT is a form of, but I will save that for another post :D

For the first month of this I will be doing full body workouts and then switch to a upper body/ lower body split.

Attached Below is the exact workout I will be doing.

Personal Update
I am a week into it already and everything is great! Weight is already back down to 190lbs so I am happy. On the downside.. well not really downside.. but let me start from the begining. For those of you who don't know I recently had a daughter. Now my wife breast feeds her as she did the same with my son. When we had my son we found out he was allergic to milk, when she would have dairy he would reflux and throw up and his skin would break out. This is also how I realized my asthma, eczema, and constant heart burn was due to allergies. Well fast forward a couple years I was introduced to the Paleo diet and now I use the principle in my diets. One of the principles is no grains, gluten, processed crap, etc. Well my wife is one of those skinny can eat anything and stay in good shape type people and she LOVES pasta, rice, cakes, lasagna, cookies, basically everything I cant have..lol. One of my biggest faults is my lack of self control, I give into temptation so easy so when I am home and hungry and open a pantry I have to force myself to say no to the junk and grab something healthy instead. Anyway this all changed with my daughter. Like my son she started to reflux and break out so we immediately thought, milk, and she cut it out her diet.. but it didn't go away. So not knowing what the baby was reacting to my wife decided to join me on my paleo diet, which would essentially cut out all possible allergens. So she did, baby was fine, and I was GREAT!! No more junk food in the house! No more my wife cooking pasta for dinner and I am eating a boring piece of meat. We were all eating the same foods and everything was perfect.. until... she decided to start introducing foods back into her diet to see if a reaction occurred. Well so far she started eating wheat and gluten again and day 2 baby is still fine.. so there goes my dream life :whiner:

Okay now back to the training:

The following is what I have chosen to go with first and I decided to just continue on with this until the results stop or slow down.

Wake up take Relora, Barberine, 10g BCAAs.
Train with 4 scoops Xtend
about 10 mins before end of workout I take my NaR-Ala, barberine, cinnamon mixed caps
Immediately after workout 10g BCAAs
15-20 mins after eat my carb meal​

I decided against the post workout carbs and am going to not use WMS and stick with potatoes or quiona as my carb sources. I figured since my main goal is weight loss right now, maintaining as much muscle as possible while in a calorie deficit state is more important than replenishing glycogen stores.
 
Pre-Bed Growth Hormone Protocol..

For the original idea the credit goes to Dr. D and to subweevil for showing me Dr. Ds post..

A couple months back George showed me this post by Dr. D

My wife asked me this morning if I remembered to take my Glycobol. I looked over and saw that indeed I had forgotten and fell asleep last night before taking my bed-time vitamins. It improves my sleep that well, that it was readily apparent to her that I hadn't taken it!

Deep sleep increases GH release, and low blood sugar compounds that release even more. After years of supps and training, I can discern increased somatotropin biosynthesis by a distinct leaning effect. You develop a certain look of lean striation. I see lots of guys here use synthetic GH for bulking, but it seems more appropriate for leaning and 'anti-aging' effects IME. There are many ways to boost GH naturally. Deep sleep + low blood sugar + hyperaminoacidemia is a consistent, cheap and simple way to do this. ;)

- Stop eating carbs at least 2hrs before bed
- Take 1-2 gbols
- Take a scoop of EAA or BCAA or protein powder, or some Mucuna (l-dopa), or an arginine based stack, or whatever you normally use to promote GH levels.

It's that simple. You'll start noticing what I mean pretty quickly. You lose fat, your cheeks might start to look leaner, your skin might feel a bit different, your arms/shoulders show more detailed striation, you 'feel' better in general, your wounds heal faster (but leave a little more scar tissue than normal), stuff like that. After a few weeks, it's easy for most people to observe these effects if their natural GH boosting has been successful.

So this sparked an interest in me and I decided to try this with my NaR-ala mix caps and I would take 3 scoops BC+EAA with it.. well nothing really profoundly happened, or at least that I noticed. Sleep wasn't better, deeper and no increased recovery.

So I was at my local health food store 2 weeks ago and saw a bottle of Mucuna and decided to pick it up to give it a try. The first couple days I took only 2 caps mucuna with my BC+EAA drink and a slight better sleep but nothing spectacular.

I was kind of upset because I wanted this to work for several reason:
*I have TERRIBLE sleep patterns. I can never fall asleep and I ALWAYS wake up groggy, with that "I don't wanna get out of bed" feeling.
* I wanted to heal faster
* I wanted to loose weight

So then it hit me, I am an idiot!!! The mucuna I had is only standardized to 15% L-Dopa so the next night I upped the dose to 6 caps pre-bed along with my Na-Rala mix and WOW!!! I only got 5 hours sleep but when I woke up it felt like 10!! So for the past 1.5 weeks I have been doing this every night and love it.

So with my forever quest of knowledge and curiosity of why things work I stumbled upon this

Evidence for an Inhibitory Effect of Physiological Levels of Insulin on the Growth Hormone (GH) Response to GH-Releasing Hormone in Healthy Subjects
R. Lanzi, M. F. Manzoni, A. C. Andreotti, M. E. Malighetti, E. Bianchi, L. Piceni Sereni, A. Caumo, L. Luzi and A. E. Pontiroli

Istituto Scientifico San Raffaele, Cattedra di Medicina Interna (R.L., M.F.M., A.C.A., M.E.M., E.B., L.P.S., L.L., A.E.P.); Unità di Bioingegneria (A.C.), Università degli Studi di Milano, 20132 Milan, Italy

Address all correspondence and requests for reprints to: Roberto Lanzi, M.D., Istituto Scientifico San Raffaele, Via Olgettina 60, 20132 Milano, Italy.


Abstract

It has been previously reported that in healthy subjects, the acute reduction of free fatty acids (FFA) levels by acipimox enhances the GH response to GHRH. In the present study, the GH response to GHRH was evaluated during acute blockade of lipolysis obtained either by acipimox or by insulin at different infusion rates. Six healthy subjects (four men and two women, 25.8 ± 1.9 yrs old, mean ± SE) underwent three GHRH tests (50 µg iv, at 1300 h) during: 1) iv 0.9% NaCl infusion (1200–1500 h) after oral acipimox administration (250 mg) at 0700 h and at 1100 h; 2) 0.1 mU·kg-1·min-1 euglycemic insulin clamp (1200–1500 h) after oral acipimox administration (250 mg at 0700 h and at 1100 h); 3) 0.4 mU·kg-1·min-1 euglycemic insulin clamp (1200–1500 h) after oral placebo administration (at 0700 and 1100 h).

Serum insulin (immunoreactive insulin) levels were significantly different in the three tests (12 ± 2, 100 ± 10, 194 ± 19 pmol/L, P < 0.05), plasma FFA were low and similar (0.04 ± 0.003, 0.02 ± 0.005, 0.02 ± 0.003, not significant), and the GH response to GHRH was progressively lower (4871 ± 1286, 2414 ± 626, 1076 ± 207 µg/L·120 min), although only test 3 was significantly different from test 1 (P < 0.05). Pooling the three tests together, a significant negative regression was observed between mean serum immunoreactive insulin levels and the GH response to GHRH (r = -0.629, P < 0.01).

Our results indicate that in healthy subjects, acipimox and hyperinsulinemia produce a similar decrease in FFA levels and that at similar low FFA, the GH response to GHRH is lower during insulin infusion than after acipimox. These data suggest that insulin exerts a negative effect on GH release. Because the insulin levels able to reduce the GH response to GHRH are commonly observed during the day, for instance during the postprandial period, we conclude that the insulin negative effect on GH release may have physiological relevance

*Full study can be found here - Invalid Link Removed

To me it seems that insulin induced hypoglycemia helps to elevate Growth Hormone BUT insulin itself can suppresses GH.

Growth Hormone is released from the pituitary in response to the GHRH (Growth Hormone Releasing Hormone) signal from the hypothalamus and insulin prevents this.

On the other hand that GH released in response to low blood sugar is not controlled by GHRH, but by something else. (leptin, Ghrelin, or galanin)

So while insulin does suppress Growth Hormone release (GHRH), hypoglycemia will stimulate a Ghrelin induced GH release.

What I am thinking is that when low blood sugar is induced by something other than insulin, in my case NaR-ala, it would give an even bigger spike than with insulin because there is no inhibitory effect.

Any thoughts? Make any sense or a bunch of malarkey?

Next I am going to add in the BC+EAA to the mix and see if I notice any changes than after that I am going to take away the ALA caps and aminos and just try mucuna on its own.
 
I have been taking ALA before bed for ages and is usually why my sleep patterns are normal. In conjunction with Macuna, you will definitely get great sleep. I prefer rhodiola, though, because of the relaxation I get from it and the extra VO2 benefits.
 
I havent used PsyKO yet, but it is on my to try list, and I havent even really read the profile of it yet but I believe BCAAs to be superior to whey around your workouts. The BCAAs in whey are peptide bound to other amino acids and must be liberated through digestion & absorbed into the bloodstream where free form BCAAs require no digestion and are rapidly absorbed into the bloodstream, spiking blood amino acids to much more than peptide bound amino acids from whey IMO

You make a good point above, but I believe the breakdown time and system (digestive) stress it may induce is minimal - plus, I dose my PsyKO with Power Shock, so best of both worlds PLUS Nitrates! :)
 
I have been taking ALA before bed for ages and is usually why my sleep patterns are normal. In conjunction with Macuna, you will definitely get great sleep. I prefer rhodiola, though, because of the relaxation I get from it and the extra VO2 benefits.

After my Nar-ala mix caps are gone I am gonna try just ALA caps pre bed to see if they are just as effective.

As for the rhodiola, I actually just picked up a bottle of that and ashwaganda. Anton had mentioned he was using them during his deload to help his CNS recover and that got me interested.

I am now just starting to look into both if them, and links, info, suggestions or whatever you have on then would be appreciated.
 
A few weeks back I read one of the ingredients in Recompadrol can limit pumps during weight training. Long story short I started taking my last serving of recompadrol before bed shortly after my eggs and cottage cheese meal. I also shotgun 5 grams of BCAAs and take L dopa before bed. First I noticed I woke up with a full body pump and of course my skin felt tighter. I also noticed improved sleep, but I'm still a little groggy upon waking but my face is noticeable thinner.
 
A few weeks back I read one of the ingredients in Recompadrol can limit pumps during weight training. Long story short I started taking my last serving of recompadrol before bed shortly after my eggs and cottage cheese meal. I also shotgun 5 grams of BCAAs and take L dopa before bed. First I noticed I woke up with a full body pump and of course my skin felt tighter. I also noticed improved sleep, but I'm still a little groggy upon waking but my face is noticeable thinner.

When I used Recompadrol, I dosed a cap pre-bed. I've generally always used an insulin mimic pre-bed (when I use them) - definitely makes a difference the next morning :)

~Rosie~
 
rhodiola is great, i take about 2 g a day NOW brand. also for anyone who has run down their adrenals really bad, ive been taking a little bit (1-2 pellets) of isocort every other morning and ive been feeling a million times better. that in combination with lots of sleep got me feeling brand new.
 
After my Nar-ala mix caps are gone I am gonna try just ALA caps pre bed to see if they are just as effective.

This is interesting to me... I believe they 'can' be 'as' effective, but wouldn't you have to quadruple, or even more, the dosage?
 
When I used Recompadrol, I dosed a cap pre-bed. I've generally always used an insulin mimic pre-bed (when I use them) - definitely makes a difference the next morning :)

~Rosie~

Recompadrol, Need 2 Slin, and Cinnulin + additional 75% Gymnema and HCA caps I made - is just amazing, flat out amazing. Massive ridiculous king's feast cheat meal once or twice a week before bed, and I wake up FULL AND TIGHT.
 
Recompadrol, Need 2 Slin, and Cinnulin + additional 75% Gymnema and HCA caps I made - is just amazing, flat out amazing. Massive ridiculous king's feast cheat meal once or twice a week before bed, and I wake up FULL AND TIGHT.

I'm about to place an order for all my insulin mimickers. I have on hand 3 bottles of recompadrol (price at NP is down to 25$ btw) and 1 bottle of slinsane. In my shopping cart I have cinnulin, lots of 75% Gymnema (stuff is amazing) na-r-ala and ala. Am I missing anything? What's HCA?
 
I'm about to place an order for all my insulin mimickers. I have on hand 3 bottles of recompadrol (price at NP is down to 25$ btw) and 1 bottle of slinsane. In my shopping cart I have cinnulin, lots of 75% Gymnema (stuff is amazing) na-r-ala and ala. Am I missing anything? What's HCA?

No you're not missing a THING! I wish you'd opt for Need 2 Slin though, you don't 'have' to, since na-r-ala is what you're going for, but someone did the math recently and found out that it isn't that much more than raw na-r-ala and you get it already capped and shipped for free, plus a lot of other synergists.

The only thing I'd say, is HCA isn't an insulin mimetic of any kind, it just reduced the affinity for fat cell proliferation, or adipocity/adipogenesis.

One thing I have not tried, ever, is 4-Hydroxyisoleucine (as a stand alone product), and I think it might have some great potential.

Let us know when all that jazz gets delivered to you! Make sure to dose 15min BEFORE eating.

PS: What an awesome price on Recompadrol!
 
No you're not missing a THING! I wish you'd opt for Need 2 Slin though, you don't 'have' to, since na-r-ala is what you're going for, but someone did the math recently and found out that it isn't that much more than raw na-r-ala and you get it already capped and shipped for free, plus a lot of other synergists.

The only thing I'd say, is HCA isn't an insulin mimetic of any kind, it just reduced the affinity for fat cell proliferation, or adipocity/adipogenesis.

One thing I have not tried, ever, is 4-Hydroxyisoleucine (as a stand alone product), and I think it might have some great potential.

Let us know when all that jazz gets delivered to you! Make sure to dose 15min BEFORE eating.

PS: What an awesome price on Recompadrol!

I too would love some 4-HO as a solo product. It was in you know what that we loved so much but refuse to buy cough couch universal nutrition product... Lol

Need2slin is 45$ at NP... Tempting, But I did find 100 servings of na r ala at 100mg for 15$
 
I have had ART done on my elbow and my knee, it definitely helped but not sure that it did any more than a good foam roller would if the injury site is easy to get at with a roller. Obviously deeper injuries are going to be better for ART, pin point areas such as the tendons in the elbow. Spots in the inner hip or thigh, however say lower back, hamstrings, glutes, these things can all be gotten to relatively easily with a foam roller. If it is a precise trigger point and you can't get it to release with a foam roller then by all means go for ART however if money is an issue and or time to get to a practitioner then try foam rolling first. Don't forget you can also use a tennis ball to roll a smaller area, or get a really deep trigger point to release, just be prepare to suck it up as it will hurt, but all forms of myo fascia release do.
 
You make a good point above, but I believe the breakdown time and system (digestive) stress it may induce is minimal - plus, I dose my PsyKO with Power Shock, so best of both worlds PLUS Nitrates! :)

PsyKO is definitely on my "to try" list and I will be using it combined with some aminos.. your combo sounds pimp, PsyKO + BCAAs + Nitrate = PIMP!

A few weeks back I read one of the ingredients in Recompadrol can limit pumps during weight training. Long story short I started taking my last serving of recompadrol before bed shortly after my eggs and cottage cheese meal. I also shotgun 5 grams of BCAAs and take L dopa before bed. First I noticed I woke up with a full body pump and of course my skin felt tighter. I also noticed improved sleep, but I'm still a little groggy upon waking but my face is noticeable thinner.

Im noticing the same things bro.. groggy mornings are a hit and miss. I dont think there is anything that will get rid of that, I used somnidren in the past and it worked wonders, but I havent used it in a while.

When I used Recompadrol, I dosed a cap pre-bed. I've generally always used an insulin mimic pre-bed (when I use them) - definitely makes a difference the next morning :)

~Rosie~

I like ALA since it also is an anti-oxidant and barberine has anti-inflammatory activity along with potential antiproliferative effect on cancer cells. So to me the combo is great just for general health, everything else I look at as extra side benefits.

I just got me a bottle of recompadrol to give it a try, I wasnt planning on taking it pre bed but I might now since you mentioned this

rhodiola is great, i take about 2 g a day NOW brand. also for anyone who has run down their adrenals really bad, ive been taking a little bit (1-2 pellets) of isocort every other morning and ive been feeling a million times better. that in combination with lots of sleep got me feeling brand new.

I got NOW brand as well.. now what is this "isocort" you speak of?
 
*Update*

I just added in Heat Stack and DCP to the supplements.

Only thing that seems could be problematic is with my AM training I am taking Barberine which is a MAOI and Piperine & Hordenine in HEAT are MAOIs too.

Not sure what kind of effect this will have but I know on bottles of most recomp stuff they have a warning of do not take with MAOIs.

I asked in the genomyx section and was told the issue would be the depletion of serum tyramine levels, and HEAT already contains tyramine to attenuate that depletion. So hopefully it will be fine.

I can always cut out the barberine pre-training but I am gonna try them both and see how it goes

ALSO

I am jumping on the IF band wagon. I am starting it today (4/12) I am not sure still of all the specifics but I have a general idea and am still reading. Not sure If I will be able to do IF on my work days so I may be only doing IF on off word days and my regular diet on work days. I only work 3 days a week so that would be 4 IF days, hopefully enough to still get the benefits of fa loss from it. As I am still looking into this I will be adding my findings to this log too. So far it looks to be effective via cAMP and cGMP. I will be sticking with my paleo principles in regards to food selection and am thinking about alternating the refeeds between low car/ high fat days and high carb/low fat days. Still not too sure what I am gonna do
 
isocort is animal or plant derived adrenal glands. basically if you have run down adrenals (always tired, bad sleep, irritability, cant function w/out caffeine, etc) then your body isnt producing the right amounts of cortisol to deal with stress. especially in the morning when cortisol levels are at their highest. so by taking adrenal glands it gives your glands a chance to recover. all in small temporary dosages of course. its one of those things that you take if you need it, and i know i needed it. i was getting super anxious and irritable. ive only taken maybe 4-5 pills of isocort total and i feel like it made a difference.
 
I too would love some 4-HO as a solo product. It was in you know what that we loved so much but refuse to buy cough couch universal nutrition product... Lol

Need2slin is 45$ at NP... Tempting, But I did find 100 servings of na r ala at 100mg for 15$

Universal, what's that?

Anyway, so in order to achieve the same per serving dosage of Need 2 Slin, it would be two bottles, or $30. So with that extra $15 difference, you're getting full fledged cAMP activation, as well as the super-high extract yield 75% Gymnema, ALL IN ONE, plus other goodies. Sure, I'm a rep, but it still seems like a no brainer if you're already in the search for a GDA anyway.

PS: What you said in an earlier post about taking your Recompadrol before bed, is a GREAT way to take it. Once again, we're like brothers, I eat that exact same meal before bed, every single night.
 
This is interesting to me... I believe they 'can' be 'as' effective, but wouldn't you have to quadruple, or even more, the dosage?

I am getting a blood glucose meter and will be doing some self experiments of my own ;) I wont be able to say conclusively but I can say how it effects me personally. The R-isomer is supposed to be superior for blood glucose control which would be beneficial prior to carb meals (although I dont think there has been conclusive evidence that R is better than the S form or RS form) for my pre bed purpose the goal is to lower my blood sugar before sleep. If I can do this with ALA and can obtain ALA for cheaper then the bulk Na-R-ALA than that will be the route I will go but for now I have Na-R-ALA on hand (although it is mixed with barberine and cinnamon at the moment) I will be doing some blood sugar readings and posting them so when I get ALA again I can compare.

Since I have recompadrol and slin-sane now I will prolly be having some fun with the blood glucose meter comparing results, although just to note I have heard a blood glucose meter can be tricky and give false readings. Apparently variables such as temp and air can alter the readings :dunno: I will be looking more into it soon

Recompadrol, Need 2 Slin, and Cinnulin + additional 75% Gymnema and HCA caps I made - is just amazing, flat out amazing. Massive ridiculous king's feast cheat meal once or twice a week before bed, and I wake up FULL AND TIGHT.

Whats this HCA? Hydroxycitric acid?

I did a quick search and check this out

Preuss, H.G., Bagchi, D., Bagchi, M., Sanyasi Rao, C.V., & Satyanarayana, S. (2004). Effects of a natural extract of (-)-hydroxycitric acid (HCA-SX) and a combination of HCA-SX plus niacin-bound chromium and Gymnema sylvestre extract on weight loss. Diabetes, Obesity, and Metabolism, 6, 171-180.

Abstract

Aim: The efficacy of optimal doses of highly bioavailable (–)-hydroxycitric acid (HCA-SX) alone and in combination with niacin-bound chromium (NBC) and a standardized Gymnema sylvestre extract (GSE) on weight loss in moderately obese subjects was evaluated by monitoring changes in body weight, body mass index (BMI), appetite, lipid profiles, serum leptin and excretion of urinary fat metabolites. HCA-SX has been shown to reduce appetite, inhibit fat synthesis and decrease body weight without stimulating the central nervous system. NBC has demonstrated its ability to maintain healthy insulin levels, while GSE has been shown to regulate weight loss and blood sugar levels.
Methods: A randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled human study was conducted in Elluru, India for 8 weeks in 60 moderately obese subjects (ages 21–50, BMI >26 kg/m2). Subjects were randomly divided into three groups. Group A was administered HCA-SX 4667 mg, group B was administered a combination of HCA-SX 4667 mg, NBC 4 mg and GSE 400 mg, while group C was given placebo daily in three equally divided doses 30–60 min before meals. All subjects received a 2000 kcal diet/day and participated in supervised walking.
Results: At the end of 8 weeks, body weight and BMI decreased by 5–6% in both groups A and B. Food intake, total cholesterol, low-density lipoproteins, triglycerides and serum leptin levels were significantly reduced in both groups, while high-density lipoprotein levels and excretion of urinary fat metabolites increased in both groups. A marginal or non-significant effect was observed in all parameters in group C.
Conclusion: The present study shows that optimal doses of HCA-SX and, to a greater degree, the combination of HCA-SX, NBC and GSE can serve as an effective and safe weight-loss formula that can facilitate a reduction in excess body weight and BMI, while promoting healthy blood lipid levels.

You just might be on to something with this HCA stuff and it appears that HCA combined with NBC (niacin-bound chromium) and Gymnema. Is this HCA alread in other nutrient partioner products? I havent really noticed it before also this NBC is new to me as well. Looks like I might have some more caps I will be making ;)

I'm about to place an order for all my insulin mimickers. I have on hand 3 bottles of recompadrol (price at NP is down to 25$ btw) and 1 bottle of slinsane. In my shopping cart I have cinnulin, lots of 75% Gymnema (stuff is amazing) na-r-ala and ala. Am I missing anything? What's HCA?

Looks good bro, you can add in some forskolin and ALCAR :thumbsup:

No you're not missing a THING! I wish you'd opt for Need 2 Slin though, you don't 'have' to, since na-r-ala is what you're going for, but someone did the math recently and found out that it isn't that much more than raw na-r-ala and you get it already capped and shipped for free, plus a lot of other synergists.

The only thing I'd say, is HCA isn't an insulin mimetic of any kind, it just reduced the affinity for fat cell proliferation, or adipocity/adipogenesis.

One thing I have not tried, ever, is 4-Hydroxyisoleucine (as a stand alone product), and I think it might have some great potential.

Let us know when all that jazz gets delivered to you! Make sure to dose 15min BEFORE eating.

PS: What an awesome price on Recompadrol!

Wow Outstanding another ingredient for me too luck up, 4-Hydroxyisoleucine .... now what is this? Fenugreek correct? Anything different about it or is it just an standardized extract from it?
 
1. Enjoy using your meter, I'm looking forward to it. I can tell you're an organized by-the-numbers kind of guy, and I will put a lot of faith into your findings. Don't forget to test other GDAs like Need 2 Slin head-to-head against the others, just keep your variables super tightly controlled (time of test, amount of carbohydrates and type, amount of co-ingested fats and protein etc)

2. HCA, yes, I'm a believer and have been for years now. I used to be naive and a long time ago actually buy the Super Citrimax from NOW Foods, but once I came into the light of bulk powders and the massive savings, life has never been the same.

3. Yes, Recompadrol is the only partitioning agent I know of that includes 50% HCA is hefty dosages along with mimetic additives!

4. 4-Hydroxyisoleucine is a specialized extract, yes. If memory serves correct, the 20 or 40% extract is the trademarked "Promilin" that Source Naturals sells in a 1:5 active content yield per capsule (100mg 4-HO per 500mg Fenugreek powder).
 
I too would love some 4-HO as a solo product. It was in you know what that we loved so much but refuse to buy cough couch universal nutrition product... Lol

Need2slin is 45$ at NP... Tempting, But I did find 100 servings of na r ala at 100mg for 15$

Whats this universal nutrition product?

I have had ART done on my elbow and my knee, it definitely helped but not sure that it did any more than a good foam roller would if the injury site is easy to get at with a roller. Obviously deeper injuries are going to be better for ART, pin point areas such as the tendons in the elbow. Spots in the inner hip or thigh, however say lower back, hamstrings, glutes, these things can all be gotten to relatively easily with a foam roller. If it is a precise trigger point and you can't get it to release with a foam roller then by all means go for ART however if money is an issue and or time to get to a practitioner then try foam rolling first. Don't forget you can also use a tennis ball to roll a smaller area, or get a really deep trigger point to release, just be prepare to suck it up as it will hurt, but all forms of myo fascia release do.

I am very familiar with myofascial release, I have a couple books on it, LAX balls are good too and so are PVC pipes. I recently have been playing around with some more stuff, been using a rolling pin on my legs and forearms, and been putting 2 tennis bals in a long tube sock and lay on top to get your back. When I try it on a try the ball be falling out. Also I have been using a frozen 2 liter bottle of water and rolling that on my hamstrings. The cold plus firmness is nice.

I just started reading this book on trigger point therapy and ordered a back buddy off amazon. Milas swears by it for back pain and it was like 30 bucks so Ima give it a try.

Ima save the ART appointment for when I deload unless I start to feel super stiff but I have been doing some yoga and taking more time during my warm ups lately so hopefully I will be ok

isocort is animal or plant derived adrenal glands. basically if you have run down adrenals (always tired, bad sleep, irritability, cant function w/out caffeine, etc) then your body isnt producing the right amounts of cortisol to deal with stress. especially in the morning when cortisol levels are at their highest. so by taking adrenal glands it gives your glands a chance to recover. all in small temporary dosages of course. its one of those things that you take if you need it, and i know i needed it. i was getting super anxious and irritable. ive only taken maybe 4-5 pills of isocort total and i feel like it made a difference.

Thanks Anton, definitely something I am going to look into
 
Animal Mstak had 4-HO listed among many other ingredients. Prop blend tho :(

I'm bout to foam roll - my body is a hurting!
 
1. Enjoy using your meter, I'm looking forward to it. I can tell you're an organized by-the-numbers kind of guy, and I will put a lot of faith into your findings. Don't forget to test other GDAs like Need 2 Slin head-to-head against the others, just keep your variables super tightly controlled (time of test, amount of carbohydrates and type, amount of co-ingested fats and protein etc)

2. HCA, yes, I'm a believer and have been for years now. I used to be naive and a long time ago actually buy the Super Citrimax from NOW Foods, but once I came into the light of bulk powders and the massive savings, life has never been the same.

3. Yes, Recompadrol is the only partitioning agent I know of that includes 50% HCA is hefty dosages along with mimetic additives!

4. 4-Hydroxyisoleucine is a specialized extract, yes. If memory serves correct, the 20 or 40% extract is the trademarked "Promilin" that Source Naturals sells in a 1:5 active content yield per capsule (100mg 4-HO per 500mg Fenugreek powder).

1. I work at a hospital and we have meters everywhere that we give away to patients. I am gonna get one of them and then I would have to buy the strips ($100 I think :( ) the meters we use are way to expensive for them to give to me but I spoke with a nurse and she is gonna get me the ones they give away

I have a couple ideas of time I want to test, like a couple different scenarios I want to test myself at.
•2 hours after my last meal of the day check my sugar, take whatever partitioner and check my sugar 10mins and 20mins after
•On off days first thing in the morning before my carb meal check sugar before partioner then after right before eating and then lastly after eating and thanks for the suggestion of keeping it same time and same meal to keep it consistent, I didnt think of that.​

Any other suggestions I am open to them, I thought about post workout but I think the amount intensity of the workout would effect the readings and it wouldnt be able to be a controlled variable, I know there is a glucose thread with need2slin and i am going to look through it for ideas.

Thank you for the kind words sir

2. HCA look promising for fat loss. I havent read through that full study that I posted above but it looks like HCA combined with gymnema and this NBC results in some decent weight loss and promoted healthy lipid levels. Have you heard of or used niacin-bound chromium?

I tired looking around for bulk HCA but came up empty handed :( I did come across Garcinia cambogia which is a plant that contains HCA for pretty cheap. Mind sharing the source for this bulk powder? Or do I have to stop being lazy and keep searching :smashfreakB:

3. Just got my recompadrol and some sline-sane. Going to take them together and maybe even with my Na-R-ALA mixed caps? I will be using the meter so will be able to see if all 3 have any additional effects or if it is just excessive.

4. Fenugreek looks good too, thanks for that suggestions too bud! Your just full of great info :bigok:

As for 4-HO is does seem to be the active in fenugreek that is responsible for the stimulation of insulin

The plant fenugreek has been used for centuries as a treatment for diabetes. This article presents evidence that the major isomer of 4-hydroxyisoleucine, an atypical branched-chain amino acid derived from fenugreek, is responsible for the effects of this plant on glucose and lipid metabolism. 4-Hydroxyisoleucine was demonstrated to stimulate glucose-dependent insulin secretion by a direct effect on pancreatic islets. In addition to stimulating insulin secretion, 4-hydroxyisoleucine reduced insulin resistance in muscle and/or liver by activating insulin receptor substrate-associated phosphoinositide 3 (PI3) kinase activity. 4-Hydroxyisoleucine also reduced body weight in diet-induced obese mice. The decrease in body weight was associated with a marked decrease in both plasma insulin and glucose levels, both of which are elevated in this animal model. Finally, 4-hydroxyisoleucine decreased elevated plasma triglyceride and total cholesterol levels in a hamster model of diabetes. Based on the beneficial metabolic properties that have been demonstrated, 4-hydroxyisoleucine, a simple, plant-derived amino acid, may represent an attractive new candidate for the treatment of type 2 diabetes, obesity and dyslipidemia, all key components of metabolic syndrome.

but if the extract is hard to obtain and/or too pricey because of some patent source naturals has I think a bulk fenugreek powder would still be a good option

he effect of fenugreek seeds (Trigonella foenum graecum) on blood glucose and the serum lipid profile was evaluated in insulin-dependent (Type I) diabetic patients. Isocaloric diets with and without fenugreek were each given randomly for 10 d. Defatted fenugreek seed powder (100 g), divided into two equal doses, was incorporated into the diet and served during lunch and dinner. The fenugreek diet significantly reduced fasting blood sugar and improved the glucose tolerance test. There was a 54 per cent reduction in 24-h urinary glucose excretion. Serum total cholesterol, LDL and VLDL cholesterol and triglycerides were also significantly reduced. The HDL cholesterol fraction, however, remained unchanged. These results indicate the usefulness of fenugreek seeds in the management of diabetes.

so 100g a day showed some results and bulk powder can be obtained for around $20 for 5lbs it might be worth looking into. Fenugreek also has some general health benefits to it as well, might be something I may look into further.
 
Animal Mstak had 4-HO listed among many other ingredients. Prop blend tho :(

I'm bout to foam roll - my body is a hurting!

Did you break down and buy a foam one or you using the fire extinguisher?

You ever try epsom salt baths? I started doing them before bed on some nights after work, mixed a cup of apple cider vinegar into it once. Has been pretty relaxing and refreshing for general body aches.

Hey Josh, u think u could post a small list of recommended reads?

On what? Any specific topic?
 
Training mostly, anything you've found truly informative related to most topics around here. Something you'd say "everybody here ought to read this" lol
 
Undulating Periodization is a training program where the variables re volume, intensity and tempo, change with each workout.

I trained this way for about 10 months. I don't feel I got anything out of it. No size, weight gain, or strength. But... everyone responds differently.
 
Training mostly, anything you've found truly informative related to most topics around here. Something you'd say "everybody here ought to read this" lol

ummm... Not sure what I would call a MUST read but this is some of what I have read in the past and reference in a lot of my post

Nutrition:
Protein Power - Dr Eades
Paleo Diet - Dr Cordain

Game Over Diet - Chuck Rudolph, Marc Lobliner, Layne Norton
The Omnivore's Dilemma - Michael Pollan
The Diet Solution, The New American Diet - Derek Charlebois

Anabolic Diet - Dr Maurio DiPasquale
Maximum Muscle Minimum Fat - Ori Hofmekler (currently reading)
Warrior Diet - Ori Hofmekler (next to read)

Training:
Starting Strength - Mark Rippetoe
Power Training - Robert dos Remedios
The Ultimate Underground - Zach Even-Esh

The New Rules Of Lifting - Lou Schuler, Alwyn Cosgrove
Super Strength (DVD) - Joe Defranco
5/3/1 - Jim Wendler

Combat Core - Jim Smith
Cardio Strength Training - Robert dos Remedios
Functional Training for Sports - Michael Boyle
Advances in Functional Training - Michael Boyle
Muscle Logic - Charles Staley

Next to read in regards to training (in no order):
Westside Barbell Book of Methods - Louie Simmons
Beyond Brawn - Stuat McRobert
Beyond Bodybuilding - Pavel Tsatouline
Dinosaur Training - Brooks Kubik
Science & Practice of Strength Training - Vladimir M. Zatsiorsky
Underground guide to Warrior Fitness - Ross Enamait
Naked Warrior - Pavel Tsatouline
Practical Programming for Strength Training - Mark Rippetoe

Misc:
Trigger Point Thearpy Workbook
Accelerated Corrective Strategies - Jim Smith
Gym Talk - Dave Tate
Rocky Marciano The Rock of his Times -
Ironmind - Randall Strossen
Under The Bar- Dave Tate
Never Let Go -Dan John
Mans Search for Meaning - Viktor Frankl
When Pride Still Mattered - David Maraniss
Self Reliance - Ralph Waldo Emerson


Wow that looks like a lot and its not even my whole library, I think I may have too many books, especially for someone who doesn't like reading :fool2:

I can't really say which ones I would suggest, I put in bold the ones I think have had a biggest impact on my personal training and diet but pretty much all of them has effected the way I view different aspects in some way or another.

If I had to pick a MUST read for people for nutrition it would be Protein Power and for training it would be Power Training, they both generally sum up a lot of my beliefs.

I also included some random books towards the end misc section :D
 
Did you break down and buy a foam one or you using the fire extinguisher?

You ever try epsom salt baths? I started doing them before bed on some nights after work, mixed a cup of apple cider vinegar into it once. Has been pretty relaxing and refreshing for general body aches.

if you want to try something interesting after the epsom salts you can try this

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same stuff that the topical magnesium "oil" is made from. has a lot of interesting effects, including raising serum DHEA levels
 
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