yeah, if trauma wants a babymaker compound HMG significantly increases sperm count
Like HCG it is best used prior to the end of your cycle. It is far superior to HCG, but also far more expensive.You every heard of HMG being used for PCT Easy?
I shot you an email to let you know I had success on my baby stack. Found out two days ago that Shy is going to have a sibling.After this little run I need to formulate my "baby maker stack". The wife is ready for another baby.....
Just kidding. I'm ready as well. Little Mikayla needs a sibling now. :cheers:
-John
The very reason you arent getting much feed back is because it hasnt been experimented with very much because of the cost. I researched it pretty hard and remember 75iu being the dosage. Albeit I cant remember if that was twice a week or not.Yea people say its way better than hCG... What's the dosing though? I've heard 1 vial is all you need for PCT while some say like 7 vials is what you need lol and that will get pricey. Each vial has 75iu in it supposed to be taken in one subQ injection.
I'm gonna use this stuff in my next cycle with PP's new green pill and get a blood test after cycle, and 3 weeks into cycle to see how well it worked plus see how the green pill is for shutdown and everything else... I just want an idea of how much HMG to take.
Yea I got you.The very reason you arent getting much feed back is because it hasnt been experimented with very much because of the cost. I researched it pretty hard and remember 75iu being the dosage. Albeit I cant remember if that was twice a week or not.
HMG is a whole host of different hormones (hCG, CG, TSH, LSH, FSH) introducing them in PCT isn't ideal. Running them prior to PCT and maybe even 1 week into PCT would be what you want to do.
You don't think it would be good to Dose it Last week of cycle and 1st week PCT?? I'd like to know your thoughts on thisYea I got you.
If I still don't have much feedback from this in the coming months before my PP androseries cycle I will just buy 2 vials of it. Dose 75iu day 1 of PCT, and 75iu day 1 of week 2 PCT.
I also will get bloodwork at the end of my cycle and one more time in the end of week 3 of my PCT so we can see how good it is at raising LH and FSH for PCT.
I'm very interested in this stuff and surprised its not as known about.
Better use protection with the woman in PCT big time though as I don't want any kids right now LOL.
:haha: :toofunny:this thread is still going lol wtf?
i am brilliant
I could do that but I don't want the androgens in my system to further suppress any LH or FSH output made from the HMG... you know what I mean? I want androgens clear from my system.You don't think it would be good to Dose it Last week of cycle and 1st week PCT?? I'd like to know your thoughts on this
This is missing the science.I could do that but I don't want the androgens in my system to further suppress any LH or FSH output made from the HMG... you know what I mean? I want androgens clear from my system.
I shot you an email to let you know I had success on my baby stack. Found out two days ago that Shy is going to have a sibling.
Here was my stack:
Toco-8
EndoAmp
Sustain Alpha LV
Coconut Oil
Zinc
Mucuna (Not the high LDOPA extract since it is the other alkaloids that stimulate spermatogenisis)
My first shot on this stack got er done!
Must have been a HYOOOGE Load :toofunny: Legendary as a matter of fact:cheers:Congrats on the news bro :cheers:
only one shot?
Well yea but just like hCG it shouldn't be comparable to AAS suppressiveness. For example M1T... sh*t shuts you down in days lol. hCG in very high and long doses only causes suppression.This is missing the science.
Introducing these during PCT will further suppress your own production, these are exogenous hormones.
Utilizing them prior to PCT deatrophys (yeah, not a word, but you know) your testicles and sensitizes your leydig cells for production. Using them in PCT will keep your LH suppressed when you are trying to recover.
This is a primer for PCT, preparing your body to soak up the naturally recovered hormones.
Then you are unaware of Dr. John Crisler then aka SWALE. Utilizing anything suppressive in PCT is down right backward. LH suppression is LH suppression, no matter how you slice it.Well yea but just like hCG it shouldn't be comparable to AAS suppressiveness. For example M1T... sh*t shuts you down in days lol. hCG in very high and long doses only causes suppression.
I'm actually gonna use hCG in PCT next time. I have read all around except here at AM that hCG is a great thing for PCT. So I'm gonna experiment next cycle with this idea.
I doubt the suppressive issue is anything to worry about with these things when used reasonably. But with AAS, even reasonable usage will 100% cause shut down.
I'm just gonna do it when the androgens have cleared my system just in case they interfere with the LH stimulation at all. Just to be on the safe side I'm going to do this regardless... cuz the amount of shut down hCG and HMG will produce from responsible usage is pretty feeble and I will take it any day for the amount of recovery they provide in PCT. They are not like Anabolics but yea they do have potential to cause shut down problems also.
I advise my AAS patients to use small amounts of HCG (250IU to 500IU) two days each week, right from the beginning of the cycle. This serves to maintain testicular form and function. It makes more sense to me to keep the horse in the barn, so to speak, then to have to chase it across three counties later on. I am also a big fan of maintaining estrogen within physiological ranges. Both therapies have been shown to hasten recovery.
Any more than 500IU of HCG per day causes too much aromatase activity. Some feel aromatase is actually toxic to the Leydig cells of the testes. You are then inducing primary hypogonadism (which is permanent) while treating steroid-induced secondary (hypogonadotrophic) hypogonadism (which is temporary--hopefully).
If 250IU or 500IU on two days each week isn’t enough to stave off testicular atrophy, then I recommend using it more days each week (as opposed to taking larger doses). In fact, I wouldn’t mind having a guy use 250IU per day ALL THROUGH the cycle. Those that have tell me they thus avoid that edgy, burned-out feeling they usually get. They also say they simply feel better each day. Subjective reports, to be sure, but they are hard not to appreciate. Especially when HCG is so inexpensive.
The testes are then ready, willing and able to again produce testosterone at the end of the cycle. LH levels rise fairly rapidly, but endogenous testosterone production is limited by lack of use. I also want to make sure a SERM, such as Clomid or Nolvadex, is at effective serum dosage (around 100mg QD for Clomid, 20-40mg QD for Nolvadex) when serum androgen levels drop to a concentration roughly equal to 200mg of testosterone per week. That is when androgenic inhibition at the HP no longer dominates over estrogenic antagonism with respect to inducing LH production. Of course, if the fellow has been doing Clomid or Nolvadex all along the way (and I now prefer Nolvadex over Clomid, due to the possibility of negative sides from the Clomid), he is all set to simply continue it at the end (no need to switch from one to the other). BTW, I see no evidence of any benefit in using BOTH SERM’s at the same time. I used to think a couple of weeks of the SERM was enough; now I like to see an entire month after the last shot of AAS (and migration of long to short esters as the cycle matures). Tapering the SERM is probably a good idea during the last week, as well.
I want my patients to stop taking HCG within a week after the end of the cycle. The testosterone production it induces will further inhibit recovery, as will using Androgel, or any other testosterone preparation, while in recovery. There is no escaping this, as there is no such thing as a “bridge”. Just because you are not inhibiting the HPTA for the entire 24 hours does not mean you are not suppressing it at all. IOW, you can’t “fool” the body—it is smarter than you are.
I like Arimidex during the cycle (in fact, consider use of an AI while taking aromatisables a necessity) but it ABSOLUTELY should not be used post cycle (even though it has been shown to increase LH production) because the risk of driving estrogen too low, and therefore further damaging an already compromised Lipid Profile, is too great (this also drives libido back into the ground—and we don’t want that, do we?).
All this is meant to get my guys through recovery as fast as possible (the real goal, yes?). So far, all of them who have tried it have reported they are recovering faster than when they have tried other protocols.
Yes I am completely familiar with SWALE's protocol. I used it. It's what I based using hCG from. I would now like to use it in PCT.Then you are unaware of Dr. John Crisler then aka SWALE. Utilizing anything suppressive in PCT is down right backward. LH suppression is LH suppression, no matter how you slice it.
But you will do your own thing, that is your right. Just please do not go around spreading any of these idea's.
Regardless as to whether it should alreadyThis thread will never die. :lmao:
Yes I am completely familiar with SWALE's protocol. I used it. It's what I based using hCG from. I would now like to use it in PCT.
And just so you know this isn't a radical idea like you're making it to be... nothing new, and nothing to be so "don't go spreading these ideas" about so don't start that. These ideas are around, they exist, and they have been implemented.
The pituitary can recover pretty fast so I'm not scared about that. It's the atrophied testes that take their sweet time.
Roberts is on the other side of the story and recommends using it for 3 weeks to retain gains and help with recovery. He is not a doctor but he has solid experience nonetheless.
Btw, very awesome of you to show me SWALE's very vague opinion on using hCG in PCT.
I'm sure he must have a reference to that opinion doesn't he? Look through his references... if there are any... and try to find the one that says using hCG under 500iu is suppressive to the bodies LH production. I'm sure he has evidence for that.
Do that for me DAdams...
And just for the record... no moron would use hCG on its own for a PCT. The idea is to use hCG which could inhibit GnHR (what you are saying)... but use a SERM which will raise GnHR to stimulate LH. This gives you LH secretion but you are getting instant gratification in the meantime by using hCG so balls are up and running right away. It's a whole combo of a PCT. Not just hCG bud.
Dr. Shippen and Dr. Crisler both state in PCT it will be a hindrance.hcg has been shown in at least one study, to be able to be used effectively post cycle after supraphysiological dosages of a 12 week cycle in restoring hpta function, along with the use of clomid & nolvadex.
it isn't favored among body builders it seems though, most favor to use during cycle.
probably eaiser to use on cycle than post cycle. who knows. seems to be a personal preference.
Even though my name was not in the title,what do u guys make of this?
i got picked to run a bottle for logging
what should i look out for- jbry sent me some info
but i have no clue what to expect all I know is its super strong, and super wet
The most well known 7-methylated steroids are DMA and MENTReally , I had no clue about the ment similarity!
I like how you skipped the first 11 pages and lay down the scientific reason on what to expect. from this compound..... for a while we didn't know what to expect schwell either.... he was flip flopping what to do by the hourEven though my name was not in the title,
You should look out for acne, gynecomastia, liver toxicity, libido loss is this compound.
It also binds to the progesterone receptor. You will likely be severely shut down from it. Chemically, it is most related to MENT and DMA, both which are researched as male contraceptives. Meaning they shut you DOWN.
Gains should be wet and heavy. I dont think using this compound as a standalone is a good idea. It will be like using anadrol as a standalone, and I am sure those who have been around the block a few times know what happens with that. Gain 15lbs on cycle, lose 20 by the time you are 2 months out of PCT
You should get strong on it, and gain a lot of weight, but again, unless you are working this into a longer, non-oral cycle, odds are you wont be very happy come a month or two after PCT.
When I read logs, IDC what people say it is doing for them on cycle. Tell me how you feel a month after PCT, and tell me how your bloodwork looks.
Boladrol converts to bolasterone, which was taken out of the medical field due to liver toxicity. Not sure what dose was being used. But other oral steroids remain in the medical field. Just because it is a prohormone to bolasterone will not make it less toxic than bolasterone.
Aggression should go up with this as well, since it is pretty androgenic and has prog. rec activity
You have mentioned using it to kickstart a cycle, I suppose you mean test e or something?I wouldnt combine it with anything else personally, especially a DHT compound. It is already pretty androgenic and you could be asking for a little much there. Only thing I would stack with it is an AI
DMT is desoxymethyltestosteroneSoooooo dmt(phera, right?) Isn't that di methyl testosterone? Or am I getting mixed up here?
What position besides the 17c is it methylated?
That is what I was referring to. You could use AndroHard after, but I wouldnt withYou have mentioned using it to kickstart a cycle, I suppose you mean test e or something?
lolwhat about stacked with dbol?
so.....I shouldn't stack this with m1t? :sorry:I wouldnt combine it with anything else personally, especially a DHT compound. It is already pretty androgenic and you could be asking for a little much there. Only thing I would stack with it is an AI
i see no problem with that. :lol:so.....I shouldn't stack this with m1t? :sorry:
Actually you are somewhat incorrect here with the DHT talk. Can you tell me where you referenced this or is it just because it can be 5a reduced? Not all steroids capable of being 5 alpha reduced is reduced at the same rate.I wouldnt combine it with anything else personally, especially a DHT compound. It is already pretty androgenic and you could be asking for a little much there. Only thing I would stack with it is an AI
Wait.. did I just read that right? You are basing shutdown purely on testicular weight? Also, testicular weight of whom? Did some guy really plop his balls up on a scale? Or are these rat studies?Actually you are somewhat incorrect here with the DHT talk. Can you tell me where you referenced this or is it just because it can be 5a reduced? Not all steroids capable of being 5 alpha reduced is reduced at the same rate.
In fact there was a study done on the effects of these compounds on the prostate. The study showed a dose dependent relationship on prostate weight. Bottom line is don't abuse the dosages, keep them at the lowest dose that gives an effect. At lower effective doses of bolasterone there was less of an increase in prostate weight with bolasterone than with testosterone.
As for shutting you down, there was a difference of only 3.7% in the weight of the testes with testosterone compared to bolasterone where as 4-chlorotestosterone and methylandrostenolone were as much as 25% less weight (which = more shutdown).
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