How to "pulse" orals

[DR.D]

Anyone ever use a pulse during PCT to keep gains while recovering? I'm almost tempted to try this out as would the days off or "pulse" help with HPTA recovery. Almost like a jumpstart every week to the nutz. Just a thought please share experiences or opinions.

Yes, after a good clean start (2-6wks) this is doable.

Also notice it with dopaminergics that shut down LH like Permax. Nuts start to go bye-bye after about a week of dosing, but kick in with a vengeance as soon as you stop. It seems paradoxical, but the body is in the business of balancing the equation, so sometimes fighting fire with fire works very well.

 

[mmowry]

Hey D you night owlin it again!

 

[thundergod]

Yes, after a good clean start (2-6wks) this is doable.

Also notice it with dopaminergics that shut down LH like Permax. Nuts start to go bye-bye after about a week of dosing, but kick in with a vengeance as soon as you stop. It seems paradoxical, but the body is in the business of balancing the equation, so sometimes fighting fire with fire works very well.

I'm afraid I've become confused on this answer Doc. Jminis asked you about using a pulse during PCT to help HPTA recovery and keep the gains made on-cycle. Then you reply, "Yes, after a good clean start (2-6 weeks) this is doable". Do you mean to go totally clean of anabolics for this long, then incorporate them back into your PCT? Because I never run a PCT for 6 weeks anyway. So it really sounds like the answer is "no" to jminis' question. Can you clarify please? Thanks Dr.D.:thumbsup: THE THUNDERGOD:hammer:

 

[sonny4753]

Hey another question:

Anyone have any experience with side affects from (m-drol) stemming from using a anti-inflammatory (Diclofenac Sodium - standard Voltarin)?

I am wondering because of m-drol's hepatoxicity that I should cut out the Voltarin during my 8-weeks?

I use it infrequently for a slight lumbar irregularity (aka scolisosis of the spine) when it gets aggravated it pinches the nerve down through my hip (talk about annoying pain) this is why I can't deadlift a lot of weight which blows monkey balls!

 

[MrParts]

Hey guys was thinking about running an Epi pulse for 6 weeks. if i had one bottle of Restore, one of PCS, and one Drive. how would i incorporate these into my Cycle? take the drive on off days and save restore and PCS for pct? or should i take Restore on off days?

 

[DGSky]

I know a lot of you use Form on off days. With Form likely not available anymore what have you considered as alternatives?

 

[bound]

I know a lot of you use Form on off days. With Form likely not available anymore what have you considered as alternatives?

I'm curious about this one, too...

 

[thundergod]

Proviron. Simple.

 

[bound]

Proviron. Simple.

I thought you needed a script for that?

 

[thundergod]

I thought you needed a script for that?

Google, and you'll see!!:gotsearch THE THUNDERGOD:hammer:

 

[sonny4753]

No feedback I guess...I mean I am new to "this" forum and board because I have been on extreme fitness for a long time. Never actually new this one existed.

Ah well, sorry for the questions.

 

[thundergod]

PS: I think proviron might work very well too, if we can't get form.

Is this official or what? Is it gonna be no more form forever? Someone say it ain't so!! THE THUNDERGOD:hammer:

 

[EasyEJL]

We all kow the effects of alcohol in terms of test/estrogen levels and protein synthesis, so I won't go there.

what the hell am I supposed to do about cinco de mayo?

 

[thundergod]

what the hell am I supposed to do about cinco de mayo?

No fiesta! Nunca!! Es malo!!

 

[sonny4753]

Thanks for the input...2 LAST questions.

Cissus would be fine for an anticort. As for the off days, yes you eed a natty T booster. I'm not familiar with dosing 6-OXO. I've never used it before. However, do not go parallel to your m-drol doses. If your plan is to take 4 caps 6-OXO on the off days at 20mg m-drol, then stay at 4 caps when you hit 30mg m-drol. Also, do not pyramid the dose of the 6-OXO back down. Cissus would be a fine anticort. It'd work just as well as 7-keto, dhea, etc. High doses of vitaminC will also help with cortisol levels. 2g or so per day should suffice. No, 1 glass of alcohol would not hurt anything too badly. As long as it is ONE SINGLE 8oz GLASS! lol. We all kow the effects of alcohol in terms of test/estrogen levels and protein synthesis, so I won't go there.

THANK YOU, for the feedback! Yeah I did (back in 2003) a Mag10 cycle, woh boy that was some serious stuff, gained a good amount of size; lost a lot of it though. Was really busy with school, work, girlfriend so after I came off my eating was not as highly regimented as it is these days. Ah well, experience.

This pulsing method sounds pretty good, so I'm pumped to try it (pardon the pun).

Extra Questions:

1. 6-OXO says take anywhere from 3-6 caps a day, so wtf, I weight 212 lbs and stand at 6' what should I take? [LOL I'm going to go with 5 just to be safe. I ordered a test meter, I want to take readings throughout and maintain my levels. ]

2. So if you are to pyramid m-drol or whatever PH you take, why does it say 50-60 mgs on week 8? Shouldn't one start going back down say after week 5 (as that would be the top of the pyramid)?

 

[BIGCPA]

What about cutting on the anabolic diet with 4-AD daily (175 mgs transdermal 2 timers per day) and pulse the superdrol at 20 mgs every other day.

 

[EasyEJL]

that would be nice if you dont care about suppression, and are just looking to avoid liver/cholesterol issues

 

[NeedMassNow]

I am currently using HDX2 as my base T-booster for my Pulse cycle 2 caps per day. Pulsing Epi Mon/Wed/Fri at 10mg pre and post work out.
Taking PCS on my off days.
Question,
Do you guys advocate taking the cortisol control (retain 2 1 cap only) in the A.M. or P.M. on OFF days?
I also have MassFX but I was advice to run it with the PCS as my PCT after my Pulse cycle. However, I was considering running It on my OFF days with the Retain 2. Will this be prudent or will this have no significant benefit?

Advice greatly appreciated, Thanks.

NMN

 

[NeedMassNow]

if you were to take the retain2 on your off days, dose it either in the morning or mid-afternoon. those are the times that cortisol levels are at their highest. if you're using HDX2 on your off days already, then no, don't add MassFX. Just run the MassFX and PCS as your PCT. you'll recover fine and you'll love the cycle. I ran these exact products in the exact same manner for my first pulse. :cheers:

Bassgod,
Thanks for the response... how should I dose the MassFX? and Should I continue to run Retain 2 along with the MassFX and PCS once I'm done with the Epi?

Thanks again,
NMN

 

[sonny4753]

yea, 5 would be good then for the 6-OXO, lol. i have no idea about dosing with that, so yea just go with 5, lmao. this is what i did with phenibut. it said 1-6 caps before bed. i'm like wtf!?? so i dosed 3 caps and it worked fine i'm not sure about this pyramid you're talking about. and do NOT by ANY means take 50-60mg of m-drol!! what do you mean by "why does it say 50-60mg in week 8?" Where are you reading this information from?? with PH's there is no pyramid. you increase the dose each week as your body builds a tolerance to the substance. don't take this the wrong way as more is NOT better. for an m-drol pulse, i would do it for 4-6 weeks, but preferably 4. 10mg the first week, 20mg the 2nd week, and ONLY increase the dose from there on out IF YOU FEEL FINE TO DO SO. if I were to pulse m-drol i'd do 10/20/20/20-30 depending on how i felt. there is no logic in pyramiding the dose of any PH back down. it would only shut you down even more, and not give you any additional gains, because your body was accustomed to the higher dose. this is a bad analogy, but take vicodin for example. if you were to take 5mg for a week, 10mg for a week, then 15mg for a week, then taper the dose back down for a few weeks, you would not really get any added bennefit from the drug during those last few weeks. you wouldn't get as much pain relief and/or "buzz" from it, depending on your reasoning for using it in the first place. again, i apologize for the bad analogy but you get the point.

LOL yeah I love these dosage recommendations "1-6" is hilarious.

Totally makes sense about not pyramiding the dosage, I got that; I was just curious in part due to how prednisone is prescribed (not an anabolic steroid but still interacts with the body in similar ways i.e. growth, energy, increased vasularity etc).


Last thing, about the dosage, when reading this forum I saw Dr. D's reccomendations for an 8 week pulse cycle (on page 1 of this thread):

Example of a 3x/wk pulse M,W,F:

Week-Dose(mg)
1 (10,20,30)
2 30
3 30-40
4 30-40
5 30-50
6 30-50
7 30-60
8 30-60

And that is what I was going to follow.

Total 1st week dosage =60 mg
Total 2nd week dosage between 90 mg (30 3x).
Total 3rd week dosage between 90 mg (30 3x) and 120 (40 3x), same for the week 4.

Then I see week 5 through 8 the individual daily dose varies from 30 to 60 mgs. This would pan out to be a minimum weekly dosage of 90 mgs or as high as 180 mgs per week.

Is this not recommended for M-Drol?

Only go 4-6 weeks not 8?

Darn I'm an engineer (electrical) and I swear this isn't rocket science, but I want to get it right and really hope I'm not sounding like complete f'n noob. Just never screwed with m-drol before. I have cycled before though with much success.

Thanks again, look forward to reading your response.

Later,

 

[sonny4753]

I believe that the substance he was referring to was Epistane. I can't really think of any other PH's that would be pulsed in such a manner. But no, those are DEF not recommended doses for m-drol. 8 weeks is also too long to pulse that particular compound. 4-6 weeks is good and IMO 4 is perfect. 6 is too long. It is a very toxic PH. It is really hard on your liver, lipid profile, blood pressure, etc as opposed to the other PH's that are available. Do 10mg the first week. If you feel fine then, increase to 20mg for week 2. Again, if you're feeling GOOD, increase to 30mg for the remaining 2 weeks. It is not recommened to go over 30mg of superdrol(m-drol.) Be sure to take at least 6g of fish oil per day and 40mg of policosanol split in 2 divided doses. Take 20mg policosanol in the moring, and another before bed. Cholesterol medicatons are always prescribed to be taken before bed. This isn't a medication, but IMO it works just as well. Statin drugs are actually synthesized from it. I'm sure you already know bout pre-loading hawthorne berry for blood pressure, getting saw palmetto for dht levels in the prostate, etc correct??

Ah, gotcha. 4 weeks, hmm all right, shoot might as well just do a full cycle for 3 weeks if that is the case.

All good on the supps, and yes I'm loaded up with hawthorne, got my shipment of support supps from 1fast400. Never heard of "policosanol" before. I'll have to look that one up. I usually would take CoQ10 which from what I have found works very well. Yeah, I'm familiar with reading about both liver enzymes and cholesterol going high on some of these compounds. BP stuff can be scary, didn't realize m-drol was that brutal. I remember with Mag10 I had to sit down after working out one day because my heart was well palpitating and I had shortness of breath. Needless to say I learned my lesson then.
As for DHT, well I think I f'd myself the first time I ever did a heavy PH and lost a little hair on that one, surprisingly the stuff grew back a year later. I am not going to take that chance again.

Now I know that all the support stuff should not be taken the same day I'm taking M-drol, in part due to the cancelling out affect. So all that stuff should be taken on my off days, except for the Omega 3's and CoQ10.

M-drol sounds pretty hepatoxic from what I have read.

With this one, do you think it is better to load up 20 before or after workouts on the 30 mg days?

Well from the sounds of it, I think I'm good to go.

Let me know what you think, and if you see any holes in my game plan for this specific compound.

Oh and like I posted earlier, I guess I should put my voltarin (anti-inflammatory) meds away during this time period; since my liver will be busy otherwise.

Thanks again man for all your input, much appreciated.

Did you ever run a cycle with m-drol? Gains?

 

[thundergod]

I've done 5 Super-drol cycles myself. Loved every one of them too! I've never used the pulse method, but I think you would profit from using the larger dosage pre-workout. So if you're taking 30 mg. every pulse day, I would take 20 mg. 1 hour before my workout, and then the other 10 mg. 1 hour after my workout. If you go up to 40 mg. for the following weeks, you would take 30 mg. 1 hour pre-workout and the other 10 mg. 1 hour after your workout. You want to space it all together pretty closely, so you'll have a greater amount of time to "bounce-back" before your next workout and pulse day. Oh, and don't take your milk thistle until later in the day like Bassgod said. At least 8 hours before or after your Super dosing. I hope this helps you bro!:thumbsup: THE THUNDERGOD:hammer:

 

[hman85]

Dr.d recommends that you should only take milk thistle on off days because it can hinder gains.

 

[thundergod]

Dr.d recommends that you should only take milk thistle on off days because it can hinder gains.

Why do 80% plus of people take milk thistle the whole time they're on a straight cycle then? I've heard that milk thistle does NOT hinder gains to be made by your anabolics or androgenics that you'd be using on cycle. That's why everyone I know takes milk thistle and liver protectant while on-cycle. But I would love to see true scientific studies proving this.:study: I wouldn't want to hamper my gains on-cycle whatsoever! THE THUNDERGOD:hammer:

 

[hman85]

Why do 80% plus of people take milk thistle the whole time they're on a straight cycle then? I've heard that milk thistle does NOT hinder gains to be made by your anabolics or androgenics that you'd be using on cycle. That's why everyone I know takes milk thistle and liver protectant while on-cycle. But I would love to see true scientific studies proving this.:study: I wouldn't want to hamper my gains on-cycle whatsoever! THE THUNDERGOD:hammer:

He says to do it o regular cycle without a doubt. He just says it can hinder your gains on pulses and that the whole idea of a pulse is to take less than a regular cycle and get slow and keepable and be less toxic. That whys he says just take on off days when pulsing. Maybe he will chime in!

Calling DR.D!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[thundergod]

SUPPOSEDLY thistle affects the absorption of the compound. so if you take it around the same time as you take the PH, then not as much of the PH will get absorbed in your body. I have heard anoither theory that it affects your androgen receptors but that's just rediculous. I've never seen a single study proving either of these "theories." D, if you can shed some light on this, it'd be appreciated!!

Bass, all me and you are saying, is to use milk thistle on a pulse, but to only use it like 8 hours before or after your pulse dose, so it won't be able to hinder your gains from your anabolic doses, if that is it even possible. Right? I still wonder why almost everyone uses milk thistle or some other liver care while on-cycle. We need some definitive answers for sure. I've got to take my liver-protectant! Thanks buddy. :thumbsup: THE THUNDERGOD:hammer:

 

[EasyEJL]

 

[thundergod]

That's awesome Easy! I want a shirt like that!! But, care to give us your real opinion on this one? Me and Bassgod hold your wisdom in very high esteem around here. You've got the clout Bro!:box: THE THUNDERGOD:hammer:

 

[EasyEJL]

The SAM-e is probably better but pricey. at $0.50-$.60 a day for it on top of everything else it hurts a little. Granted if price is your biggest concern, you probably can't afford the food to make the cycle worthwhile either

I think on a pulse you can probably skip the liver protectant altogether if you are going to only run 4-6 weeks. alchohol does a more damage from what i've read, other than maybe high dosed superdrol. even that at 40mg or under 3x a week I think is less damaging than a serious drinker does to theirs

 

[thundergod]

The SAM-e is probably better but pricey. at $0.50-$.60 a day for it on top of everything else it hurts a little. Granted if price is your biggest concern, you probably can't afford the food to make the cycle worthwhile either

I think on a pulse you can probably skip the liver protectant altogether if you are going to only run 4-6 weeks. alchohol does a more damage from what i've read, other than maybe high dosed superdrol. even that at 40mg or under 3x a week I think is less damaging than a serious drinker does to theirs

Thanks for the quick response Easy. I only have one more question. I don't drink at all, not a drop. I used to only take milk thistle during my PCT and off-cycle, now everyone's telling me its necessary to use on-cycle also. Is this true? So, in other words, we should use it all the time. Which is the best option, Easy?:think: Thanks for all of your help bro! THE THUNDERGOD:hammer:

 

[maynehood171]

:toofunny::toofunny:

 

[thundergod]

no reason to not take it year 'round. when cycle time comes, your liver will just be in even better shape i won't start doing it til i'm older. i'm so damn young now, i feel like an old dude taking fish oil, a multi, and b-complex year 'round. people are like "dude, why do you take that? you're too young to be takng that stuff." they don't understand bodybuilding. not many people do actually. if your body is in 100% working order and 100% healthy, it can devote itself 100% to building muscle. if you get sick, you lose gains, can't train, can't eat right, etc. a multi and b-complex are the reasons why i never get sick. i take fish oil for cardiovascular reasons, mood support, joint support, etc. the sh!t helps your body with just about everything, lol. silly skinny, naieve friends tsk tsk. ok, sorry for the rant, i'm done now. LOL

Hey, thanks for you rant bro. They're always very helpful to me man. This is something that I've been asking on numerous other threads, all with NO definitive answers. Pistonpump said they're probably isn't a clear cut answer. I've read where it is not advised to take milk thistle while on-cycle because it will hinder your androgen receptors. You'll excrete more of your anabolic compound in other words. But until I can get a more substantial answer, I'm just going to keep taking it year-round to be safe. What do you guys think about taking only 1,000 mg. per day while on-cycle, and then increase it to 2,000 mg. per day during PCT? Sound wise? Thanks as always Bass and Easy.:box: You guys are always helpful!!:clap2: THE THUNDERGOD:hammer:

 

[taxidriver]

Has anyone tried the 2on\2off days pulse method?Not weeks.

 

[hman85]

Has anyone tried the 2on\2off days pulse method?Not weeks.

i have never tried that but it sound like it would work. i have seen people use the 1on 1off and i would think that 2on 2off would be better than 1on 1off. imo

 

[taxidriver]

i have never tried that but it sound like it would work. i have seen people use the 1on 1off and i would think that 2on 2off would be better than 1on 1off. imo

Thank you for your feedback.
Btw are there any case of gyno reduction by pulsing?

 

[hman85]

Thank you for your feedback.
Btw are there any case of gyno reduction by pulsing?

do you mean less chance of getting it? if so yes i believe so.

 

[taxidriver]

do you mean less chance of getting it? if so yes i believe so.

I meant to correct pre-existent gyno.
I know that some guys had good results by doing 4-6 weeks normal cycles, what i would like to know is if i can expect the same from pulsing.

 

[hman85]

I meant to correct pre-existent gyno.
I know that some guys had good results by doing 4-6 weeks normal cycles, what i would like to know is if i can expect the same from pulsing.

Well using epistane would help that but i think doing a straight cycle would be better. I will ask dr.d for you and see what he has to say.

 

[taxidriver]

Well using epistane would help that but i think doing a straight cycle would be better. I will ask dr.d for you and see what he has to say.

Awesome !!!! Thank u for your help and concern man!!

Reps

 

[sonny4753]

Thanks for the info...

I've done 5 Super-drol cycles myself. Loved every one of them too! I've never used the pulse method, but I think you would profit from using the larger dosage pre-workout. So if you're taking 30 mg. every pulse day, I would take 20 mg. 1 hour before my workout, and then the other 10 mg. 1 hour after my workout. If you go up to 40 mg. for the following weeks, you would take 30 mg. 1 hour pre-workout and the other 10 mg. 1 hour after your workout. You want to space it all together pretty closely, so you'll have a greater amount of time to "bounce-back" before your next workout and pulse day. Oh, and don't take your milk thistle until later in the day like Bassgod said. At least 8 hours before or after your Super dosing. I hope this helps you bro!:thumbsup: THE THUNDERGOD:hammer:

Thundergod thanks man, appreciate the heads up.

I am going to use 6-oxo for my test supp, any other reccomendations? From everything I have read it seems to be the better one out there.

4 week pulse, I'll let you guys know how I do. As far as I've read if all goes right this doesn't require a pct, per Dr. D.

Later

 

[taxidriver]

10mg per day for 30 days is how users dose epi to shrink pre-existing gyno. btw, is that your Lotus in your avi? I love those cars man.

I tought that 30mg per day was the best dosage for gyno shrinkage, why 10mg is best?

Lotus Elise :dance: the best!!

 

[thundergod]

Thundergod thanks man, appreciate the heads up.

I am going to use 6-oxo for my test supp, any other reccomendations? From everything I have read it seems to be the better one out there.

4 week pulse, I'll let you guys know how I do. As far as I've read if all goes right this doesn't require a pct, per Dr. D.

Later

6-oxo is great for your off-pulse days. Fenugreek is great too. Use the 6-oxo in a transdermal, it's much more effective and cheaper that way. You can find the trione (6-oxo) powder and the Penetrate carrier at NP!! THE THUNDERGOD:hammer:

 

[Gtarzan81]

I've also heard that 6-oxo is better on the libido for the off days on a pulse. I'll pick some up soon as my Nova XT(ATD) runs out.

This thread has to be the best one on the site, hands down!

 

[sonny4753]

6-oxo is great for your off-pulse days. Fenugreek is great too. Use the 6-oxo in a transdermal, it's much more effective and cheaper that way. You can find the trione (6-oxo) powder and the Penetrate carrier at NP!! THE THUNDERGOD:hammer:

You rock dude! Good idea, didn't even think of the transdermal vehicle application.

I think I'm set, so what happens if like in week 4 I start getting "shrinkage" on this stuff, I keep reading about guys who pulsed and are experiencing that sort of side effect. I mean I don't know if they are doing something wrong, but it sounds pretty cut and dry:

4-6 weeks M-W-F (10 - 30 mg possibly 40 mg if reaction is tolerable to compound), load up on support supps (like any other cycle), eat heavy and clean, and lift; plus get lots of rest!

I mean I have cycled before but this stuff sounds like you have to have your ducks in a row and be on time with your dosing, eating, rest, and support supps.

All right back to work...lol

 

[young4life]

OK everyone, 1-2 more weeks before I start my pulse of Epidrol @ 30mgs Tus.- Thur.- Satu. for 6-8 weeks. I shut-down easy, so I'll be using a test booster on off days. Will MFX Extreme be ok? If not, any suggestions? I'll also be using a cort blocker. Do I need a AI for off days? I think not because Epi suppresses estro already and an AI will kill it. Also I'll be using Tribulus, Milk thistle or CS and the usual multi and other core supps.

PLEASE TWEAK WHERE NECESSARY. THANK YOU.

P.S. Please, no "got search" answers.

 

[jminis]

Yes, after a good clean start (2-6wks) this is doable.

Also notice it with dopaminergics that shut down LH like Permax. Nuts start to go bye-bye after about a week of dosing, but kick in with a vengeance as soon as you stop. It seems paradoxical, but the body is in the business of balancing the equation, so sometimes fighting fire with fire works very well.

Gotcha thanks for the info dr. D. It think come PCT time I'm going to give it a shot. I'll make sure to post my feedback. Note PCt won't be for a while :dance:

 

[young4life]

MassFX will be fine. that's what i used on my off days and it worked great. no AI is needed.

Thank U.

 

[taxidriver]

nah bro, anything OVER 10mg has actually irritated existing gyno is users.

If i make one 10mg 4 week cycle with epi, do i need Serm or TestBooster?

What About one month 10mg/day for gyno destruction and right in the following month a normal 3x pulse cycle with epi(20/30/30/30)?

 

[warbird01]

6-oxo is great for your off-pulse days. Fenugreek is great too. Use the 6-oxo in a transdermal, it's much more effective and cheaper that way. You can find the trione (6-oxo) powder and the Penetrate carrier at NP!! THE THUNDERGOD:hammer:

its out of stock

 

[thundergod]

its out of stock

Not everywhere. I always know of some places. You guys got to use that search button more often!!:gotsearch hahaha THE THUNDERGOD:hammer: