Virile Mane - Hair anyone?

[poison]

When I say that I mean like literally the hairless skin directly infront of the current hair line. If thats what you mean I'm going to start rubbing it in to the skin right infront of the hairline.

If I had a roommate, I'd rub it in between his eyebrows while he slept. Unibrow!

 

[1HP]

If I had a roommate, I'd rub it in between his eyebrows while he slept. Unibrow!

Hahahahahahah briljant, reps!

 

[crader]

If I had a roommate, I'd rub it in between his eyebrows while he slept. Unibrow!

LOL now nobody is going to want to live with you!:lol:

 

[dsade]

I have updated pics, but my laptop bit the big one last night. Once back rolling, I'll get them posted.

 

[Flyboy]

i'm about 4 weeks in now... still shedding quite a bit since about week 3

Hair is looking okay though overall. Once the shed stops I might get some fairly rapid thickening up if previous experience with minox is anything to go by.

 

[CTDeuce]

i'm about 4 weeks in now... still shedding quite a bit since about week 3

Hair is looking okay though overall. Once the shed stops I might get some fairly rapid thickening up if previous experience with minox is anything to go by.

Im the in same boat. My hair still looks much better than it did....but I am still shedding a bit.

 

[Flyboy]

Nice to know I'm not the only one then!

What surprises me is that even though I have been, and still am, using minoxidil and only applying this once per day it has the power to induce a notable amount of increased shedding... it is a promising sign as to the strength of the regrowth effects in my opinion.

Anyway, time will tell... about 4 weeks to go until I'll have my 2 month update to the pics. I should have 2 bottles of the shampoo arriving by the end of this week too.

 

[AFOX]

I'm on week three, and my shedding has stopped, and I'm pretty sure I have some new growth. I love the shampoo, as it has improved my dry and course hair. I'm doing the whole stack. VM, the shampoo, Toco8 and a bunch of anti-oxidents I already had.
My problem area is the crown, and I have only recently( 6months) been shedding. So I'm hoping I will have excellent results, so far so good. Oh, and by the way, Rogain did nothing for me after several months.

 

[blind12]

If I had a roommate, I'd rub it in between his eyebrows while he slept. Unibrow!

Shouldn't work this way btw, should it ?

 

[dsade]

Shouldn't work this way btw, should it ?

It's not supposed to - but this has me curious. I'm actually thinking about finding a tester with no hair on their chest to try VM and see.

Updated pics from yesterday. Tried to get in close so you could see how thick the new growth is:

Yes, that is a glob of VM that I didn't rub in all the way. Thanks, darling, for waiting until we were halfway done with public breakfast before pointing it out to me.

Also less apparent, but definitely reduced, is that constant red/puffy/shiny scalp appearance indicative of hairloss. Hard to capture that in the pics, though.

 

[AFOX]

Dsade, if this product gives me my full head of hair back you will be my hero forever. Going bald is one of my biggest fears, and this is the first time MPB has affected me at the age of 38. I love my hair and I want to keep it. Thanks for bringing such a great product to the market, even though it pretty early to see the full effects.

 

[dsade]

Dsade, if this product gives me my full head of hair back you will be my hero forever. Going bald is one of my biggest fears, and this is the first time MPB has affected me at the age of 38. I love my hair and I want to keep it. Thanks for bringing such a great product to the market, even though it pretty early to see the full effects.

If society, and people in general, judged us only by our insides - well, then I would still want to keep my hair, but it has been shown over and over again that the status of our hairline VASTLY affects the status of our bank accounts, and the amount of respect we get from others.

My hopes are riding right up there with yours, and I am extremely impressed thus far, considering it has only barely been over a month for me.

 

[RipdnTxs2]

I,m at week four with VM, I added Taco-8 and the shampoo at week 2, my hair is alot softer and shedding for me has virtually stopped. I am noticing my temple area is starting to have little red dots( very subtle), I am hoping this is a sign of some growth stimulation, this happens about ten minutes after application. I shaved my head with a number 2 blade and took pics before first application, so time will tell

 

[CTDeuce]

As of today I have begun running Java Lustre shampoo 1x a day and am continuing Virile Mane 1x a day and 3 pills of NoXidant 1x a day.

I enjoyed the shampoo at first use. Good texture, decent lather, good scent. Overall a winner right away. Now for the results

 

[vishnu10003]

Hi,

New poster to the forum.. Got a link here from regrowth.com. This stuff looks pretty encouraging..

My only hesitation is the fact that the raspberry ketones in it have been shown to significantly down-regulate androgen receptors. The reason why this bothers me is I have been EXTREMELY sensitive to EVERY kind of anti-androgenic/5ar-inhibiting topical I have ever tried, nevermind internals. I can immediately notice a decrease in libido for starters.. This has been a big dilemma for me in my battle with mpb.. I don't want to give up sex drive for hair... I mean what is the point of having hair then? So I was wondering if any of the users on here have experienced any kind of even SLIGHT side effects in this area? Much thanks.

 

[Flyboy]

Hi,

New poster to the forum.. Got a link here from regrowth.com. This stuff looks pretty encouraging..

My only hesitation is the fact that the raspberry ketones in it have been shown to significantly down-regulate androgen receptors. The reason why this bothers me is I have been EXTREMELY sensitive to EVERY kind of anti-androgenic/5ar-inhibiting topical I have ever tried, nevermind internals. I can immediately notice a decrease in libido for starters.. This has been a big dilemma for me in my battle with mpb.. I don't want to give up sex drive for hair... I mean what is the point of having hair then? So I was wondering if any of the users on here have experienced any kind of even SLIGHT side effects in this area? Much thanks.

nope....

plus i might be wrong, but even if it did go systemic, iirc RK's actually increase androgen receptors in the rest of the body. Is that right Dsade? I'm sure I remember seeing that somewhere...

 

[blind12]

nope....

plus i might be wrong, but even if it did go systemic, iirc RK's actually increase androgen receptors in the rest of the body. Is that right Dsade? I'm sure I remember seeing that somewhere...

Capsaicin downregulates AR elsewhere too... so oral RK's might not be a good idea. Well they're out of stock anyway

"Furthermore, capsaicin has been shown to down-regulate androgen receptor expression by prostate cancer cells [29]. "

 

[CTDeuce]

Hi,

New poster to the forum.. Got a link here from regrowth.com. This stuff looks pretty encouraging..

My only hesitation is the fact that the raspberry ketones in it have been shown to significantly down-regulate androgen receptors. The reason why this bothers me is I have been EXTREMELY sensitive to EVERY kind of anti-androgenic/5ar-inhibiting topical I have ever tried, nevermind internals. I can immediately notice a decrease in libido for starters.. This has been a big dilemma for me in my battle with mpb.. I don't want to give up sex drive for hair... I mean what is the point of having hair then? So I was wondering if any of the users on here have experienced any kind of even SLIGHT side effects in this area? Much thanks.

I have wanted to have more sex than ever while being on Virile Mane actually. I don't know much about RK but maybe that's why. Only other times i've ever wanted to have it this much, is when I was using a GOOD Test Booster.

 

[dsade]

Capsaicin downregulates AR elsewhere too... so oral RK's might not be a good idea. Well they're out of stock anyway

"Furthermore, capsaicin has been shown to down-regulate androgen receptor expression by prostate cancer cells [29]. "

Activity in prostate cancer cells cannot be translated to the rest of the body.

The anti-androgenic action should not affect you systemically. I have had zero loss of libido. In addition, hypothetically the inclusion of the L-Carnitine-L-Tartarate will go somewhat towards countering any effects on ARs, based on recent research.

 

[indie85]

Hi, I am another new user here directed to your product from another site. I have to say I am very pleased to see the pics of regrowth in the hair line and temples in particular as these are generally regarded as the hardest areas to regrow hair, and all in a couple of weeks too, it seems too good to be true but the pics don't lie. They have been good enough evidence along with the excellent sounding actives for me to order 2 bottles of VM and am eagerly awaiting to try it.

I have one question though, and although it has been answered to some extent, I'd like to clear something up regarding the concurrent use of rogaine. I have been on rogaine for over 18 months now and have undoubtedly a fair proportion of hairs that are minox dependent so I would be quite eager to continue using it, or at least until I see significant progress with VM. I see the advice is to separate the application of rogaine and VM, is this because you dont want the carrier in the rogaine to also carry the actives in VM or interaction between the actives?

I say this because I have two ideas about how I might use VM with rogaine, I could do a morning Rogaine application with a VM night application, using the VM in all areas I usually apply rogaine, or... use rogaine on the crown and central front area and swap rogaine completely for VM in the temple area, where I believe rogaine has shown close to the maximum it can achieve there, with only small vellus type hairs that would be lost if dependant. The latter option would allow for a twice day application of VM but no doubt there would be some unavoidable cross over between the rogaine use in the central front area and the VM in the temple areas. I was wondering what the thoughts of dsade or GeneGnomeX are on this?

Apologies for the long post and thanks for your time.

 

[vishnu10003]

Thanks for the answers guys,

Dsade, would you mind just giving a brief summary on the research you are talking about regarding carnitine and the counter effects it has on ars? Thanks so much..

And just another thought.. Im very ignorant about all this stuff, but wouldn't the most sensitive place for ar's be in the brain in terms of effects on libido? And since this topical is being applied so close to that area it would make the chance for down-regulation of ar's to have a lot more of a pronounced effect even if it doesnt get that absorbed systemically?

It would be great if the rk's could be acting as adaptagens(sp?) in terms of only down-regulating androgen receptors in the presence of inflammation, in this case mpb...

Sorry if I sound pretty ignorant about all this, but any thoughts would be greatly appreciated..

 

[dsade]

Hi, I am another new user here directed to your product from another site. I have to say I am very pleased to see the pics of regrowth in the hair line and temples in particular as these are generally regarded as the hardest areas to regrow hair, and all in a couple of weeks too, it seems too good to be true but the pics don't lie. They have been good enough evidence along with the excellent sounding actives for me to order 2 bottles of VM and am eagerly awaiting to try it.

I have one question though, and although it has been answered to some extent, I'd like to clear something up regarding the concurrent use of rogaine. I have been on rogaine for over 18 months now and have undoubtedly a fair proportion of hairs that are minox dependent so I would be quite eager to continue using it, or at least until I see significant progress with VM. I see the advise is to separate the application of rogaine and VM, is this because you dont want the carrier in the rogaine to also carry the actives in VM or interaction between the actives?

I say this because I have two ideas about how I might use VM with rogaine, I could do a morning Rogaine application with a VM night application, using the VM in all areas I usually apply rogaine, or... use rogaine on the crown and central front area and swap rogaine completely for VM in the temple area, where I believe rogaine has shown close to the maximum it can achieve there, with only small vellus type hairs that would be lost if dependant. The latter option would allow for a twice day application of VM but no doubt there would be some unavoidable cross over between the rogaine use in the central front area and the VM in the temple areas. I was wondering what the thoughts of dsade or GeneGnomeX are on this?

Apologies for the long post and thanks for your time.

You have given this a lot of thought, and it's a pleasure to work this out with you - since we are all treading on new territory.

The reason for not using at the same time are possible redundant stimulation of the same pathways which might result in depletion of the biological compounds necessary to ellicit the effects we are going for. Minoxidil is not thoroughly deciphered, mechanism-wise, and we are finding WAY more effectiveness using the VM formula based on individual ingredient studies.

Combine that with the hefty price tag of Minox., and we are going for the simple recommendation not to use concurrently.

Whether Minox dependent hairs will be lost, we also don't know WHERE in the hair growth cycle minox causes the follicle to fall - and it coud very well be possible (rather likely, actually) that they are stagnant hairs that WILL be lost. However, the effect should be temporary, as the lost hairs will soon be replaced by thick, darker, actively growing hairs.

So in order of preference:

1 - Use VM only
2 - Use Minox in the morning, and VM at night
3 - Use Minox on crown area and VM everywhere else.

Wish I could give you more info, and a solid answer, but this is new territory using a real world scenario that just doesn't have solid information.

 

[dsade]

Thanks for the answers guys,

Dsade, would you mind just giving a brief summary on the research you are talking about regarding carnitine and the counter effects it has on ars? Thanks so much..

And just another thought.. Im very ignorant about all this stuff, but wouldn't the most sensitive place for ar's be in the brain in terms of effects on libido? And since this topical is being applied so close to that area it would make the chance for down-regulation of ar's to have a lot more of a pronounced effect even if it doesnt get that absorbed systemically?

It would be great if the rk's could be acting as adaptagens(sp?) in terms of only down-regulating androgen receptors in the presence of inflammation, in this case mpb...

Sorry if I sound pretty ignorant about all this, but any thoughts would be greatly appreciated..

For LCLT and androgen receptor response: Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2006 Oct;38(10):1861.

Androgenic responses to resistance exercise: effects of feeding and L-carnitine.
Kraemer WJ, Spiering BA, Volek JS, Ratamess NA, Sharman MJ, Rubin MR, French DN, Silvestre R, Hatfield DL, Van Heest JL, Vingren JL, Judelson DA, Deschenes MR, Maresh CM.

Human Performance Laboratory, Department of Kinesiology, University of Connecticut, Storrs, CT 06269-1110, USA. [email protected]

PURPOSE: The purpose of this investigation was to determine the effects of 3 wk of L-carnitine L-tartrate (LCLT) supplementation and post-resistance-exercise (RE) feeding on hormonal and androgen receptor (AR) responses. METHODS: Ten resistance-trained men (mean+/-SD: age, 22+/-1 yr; mass, 86.3+/-15.3 kg; height, 181+/-11 cm) supplemented with LCLT (equivalent to 2 g of L-carnitine per day) or placebo (PL) for 21 d, provided muscle biopsies for AR determinations, then performed two RE protocols: one followed by water intake, and one followed by feeding (8 kcal.kg body mass, consisting of 56% carbohydrate, 16% protein, and 28% fat). RE protocols were randomized and included serial blood draws and a 1-h post-RE biopsy. After a 7-d washout period, subjects crossed over, and all experimental procedures were repeated. RESULTS: LCLT supplementation upregulated (P<0.05) preexercise AR content compared with PL (12.9+/-5.9 vs 11.2+/-4.0 au, respectively). RE increased (P<0.05) AR content compared with pre-RE values in the PL trial only. Post-RE feeding significantly increased AR content compared with baseline and water trials for both LCLT and PL. Serum total testosterone concentrations were suppressed (P<0.05) during feeding trials with respect to corresponding water and pre-RE values. Luteinizing hormone demonstrated subtle, yet significant changes in response to feeding and LCLT. CONCLUSION: In summary, these data demonstrated that: 1) feeding after RE increased AR content, which may result in increased testosterone uptake, and thus enhanced luteinizing hormone secretion via feedback mechanisms; and 2) LCLT supplementation upregulated AR content, which may promote recovery from RE.

Also, do not mistake application to the scalp with any possible entry THROUGH the Blood/Brain barrier to have profound neural effects. Proximity of scalp to brain doesn't mean the ingredient will soak straight through into the old noggin.

 

[dsade]

And finally, went ahead and took pictures again today (trying to duplicate the same perspective.)..

The difference even from the pics I took on 12/2 are astounding and growth seems to be gaining rapidity.

Here's the composite, earliest pics on the left and today's all the way on the right.

And yes, those are wild freaking hairs growing out of the middle of my forehead...I have been sloppy again with application, so soon I will look like the Wolfboys.

 

[strategicmove]

Impressive progress so far, dsade, especially in this short space of time. Almost magical! How often did/do you apply Virile Mane daily?

 

[dsade]

Impressive progress so far, dsade, especially in this short space of time. Almost magical! How often did/do you apply Virile Mane daily?

I have switched to twice a day applications, a light on in the morning, and full application at night to take advantage of the interplay between IGF-1 and sleep released GH.

Other than VM, I am using NOxidant and Java Lustre only.

Hey, shoot me another email - you and I have a conversation to begin/continue.

 

[vishnu10003]

Dsade, can you post to a link to where I can order? Thanks..

 

[dsade]

Dsade, can you post to a link to where I can order? Thanks..

BEst place to order is right here at www.nutraplanet.com.

We're right there on the front page.

 

[indie85]

Thanks for the reply dsade, hmm Im very tempted to go the whole hog and just use VM, I guess I'll see what I feel like when it arrives, but at least I know not to go with the VM in temples and rogaine everywhere else in the same application method.
Well, I cant wait to try it and will hopefully be updating everyone with good regrowth in the coming weeks.

 

[vishnu10003]

Hey Dsade,

Just ordered some. I have come across something though. The peppermint oil in your formulation is a very potent anti-androgen.. This might be a problem for me considering my history on topicals with properties like this. May be you could give me some peace of mind on this dsade. Thanks again.

 

[djremix]

ooops
been applying morning and before bed. (dosing stuck from minox/spiro use)


also the shampoo wasnt out when i ordered so im just using the below for now(got it for my wife a while back)
hope that its ok?

http://www.ageless-beauty.com/kerastase.html

not the company page as the above is the only one i found that discusses ingredients!

Dsade,
Did you get a chance to look over the ingrediets in the above shampoo?

i realise its impossible for you to give a definite answer, but is there a possibility that the above shampoo might hamper viril mane's effectiveness? its supposed to be a nourishing formulae..

what should i use if i cant get any java luster for now?

thanks

 

[dsade]

Dsade,
Did you get a chance to look over the ingrediets in the above shampoo?

i realise its impossible for you to give a definite answer, but is there a possibility that the above shampoo might hamper viril mane's effectiveness? its supposed to be a nourishing formulae..

what should i use if i cant get any java luster for now?

thanks

From the way it looks, it won't adversely affect VM's results. Their verbiage is convoluted, to it is hard to tell what they are claiming as far as "nourishing". I wish I could tell you more about it.

If you can't get a hod of the Java Lustre, I would use something gentle - WEN makes a great shampoo as well. You want something that won't strip oils from hair, won't irritate scalp, and won't cause direct or indirect inflammation of scalp tissue. Most commercial shampoos DO.

 

[dsade]

Hey Dsade,

Just ordered some. I have come across something though. The peppermint oil in your formulation is a very potent anti-androgen.. This might be a problem for me considering my history on topicals with properties like this. May be you could give me some peace of mind on this dsade. Thanks again.

The small amount used in the formula, and the nature of the carrier, makes sure that there won't be systemic detriment due to antagonism of ARs.

 

[max silver]

From the way it looks, it won't adversely affect VM's results. Their verbiage is convoluted, to it is hard to tell what they are claiming as far as "nourishing". I wish I could tell you more about it.

If you can't get a hod of the Java Lustre, I would use something gentle - WEN makes a great shampoo as well. You want something that won't strip oils from hair, won't irritate scalp, and won't cause direct or indirect inflammation of scalp tissue. Most commercial shampoos DO.

I keep my hair very short (probably around 1/4 inch), and have been using banish and liquid java lather to clean my face/head. Should I avoid using those items for cleaning my scalp?

 

[dsade]

I keep my hair very short (probably around 1/4 inch), and have been using banish and liquid java lather to clean my face/head. Should I avoid using those items for cleaning my scalp?

In spite of the ingredients, the liquid java lather seems to be a gentle and effective shampoo as well. You should be fine with them.

I am actually going to make a conditioner using a strong coffee extract, along with a coconut water extract, since the two seem to have utterly unique and beneficial properties for the hair itself.

 

[strategicmove]

...
Hey, shoot me another email - you and I have a conversation to begin/continue.

E-Mail sent yesterday! :nono:

 

[rosariorose9]

In spite of the ingredients, the liquid java lather seems to be a gentle and effective shampoo as well. You should be fine with them.

I am actually going to make a conditioner using a strong coffee extract, along with a coconut water extract, since the two seem to have utterly unique and beneficial properties for the hair itself.

Great idea!! Read very positive things abut the beneficial effects of both caffeine and coconut for the hair... By the way, I've ordered the Virile Mane, and will report my results...positive or negative...as time progresses.

 

[dsade]

Great idea!! Read very positive things abut the beneficial effects of both caffeine and coconut for the hair... By the way, I've ordered the Virile Mane, and will report my results...positive or negative...as time progresses.

I appreciate the feedback.

I'll post an update as I get ready to release the conditioner. It looks like it will be of VERY high quality.

 

[vishnu10003]

Dsade and other positive responders, besides these new hairs you are getting, have you noticed a thickening up of existing hairs? How long should I expect to see a reduction in shedding and thickening up of new hairs?

 

[1HP]

Okay I'm 18 days in now. I manages to take a picture where you can clearly see my new growth in front of my existing hairline. It doesnt look very pretty now but I guess (hope lol)It'll fill up eventually..

Some new pictures, a week later now, you can see it's filling in nicely now, its growing very friggin fast!!

Also notice the freak hairs on my forehead lol!

 

[Shay4]

Dear dsade,
I've been using VM+ JL for something like 3 weeks and I must say that they are great products.
Previous to that I had used Rogaine for 2 months.
Until now I dont see any improvement, my hair seems to be a
little thinner. (maybe because I quit rogaine)
Also few months ago I transplanted 2000 body hair into the scalp. Is it ok to put Virile Mane on body hairs ?
Your advice is needed
Thanks.

 

[dsade]

Dear dsade,
I've been using VM+ JL for something like 3 weeks and I must say that they are great products.
Previous to that I had used Rogaine for 2 months.
Until now I dont see any improvement, my hair seems to be a
little thinner. (maybe because I quit rogaine)
Also few months ago I transplanted 2000 body hair into the scalp. Is it ok to put Virile Mane on body hairs ?
Your advice is needed
Thanks.

This is a question I do not offhand know, and I will try to find out for you.

Normally, body hairs react positively to high DHT levels. Now, if they retain that particular property after transplantation and several growth cycle, I do not know.

However, the other mechanisms behind VM should still be of benefit to the transplanted follicles.

 

[dsade]

Some new pictures, a week later now, you can see it's filling in nicely now, its growing very friggin fast!!

Also notice the freak hairs on my forehead lol!

Looks like you are definitely getting the same reduction in swelling on the areas of application as well.

that whole puffy/shiny scalp appearance just makes the thin hair seem so much worse, IMO.

 

[1HP]

Looks like you are definitely getting the same reduction in swelling on the areas of application as well.

that whole puffy/shiny scalp appearance just makes the thin hair seem so much worse, IMO.

It's more difficult to see on the photo but my hair looks a lot fuller/thicker now, first week it thinned kind of radical but it's growing back with a vengeance. I think by now it looks fuller then it was before I started. It's kind of unreal since I'm only on it 3 weeks, the growth rate is incredible.

BTW I only apply once a day, before bed. I clean the area with Banish before application.

 

[vishnu10003]

dsade, dont know if you caught my last question, but I was just wondering if you and other positive responders noticed a thickening of existing hair as well as a reduction in shedding alongside the new growth?

If so how long do you think till I notice some improvement after starting? Thanks.

 

[dsade]

dsade, dont know if you caught my last question, but I was just wondering if you and other positive responders noticed a thickening of existing hair as well as a reduction in shedding alongside the new growth?

If so how long do you think till I notice some improvement after starting? Thanks.

Absolutely. The thickening of the shaft affects new growth of existing active hairs, and you will notice fuller hair within a couple of weeks.

Apart from some initial shedding, which is to be expected given the MOA, the lag time SHOULD be about the same - about 2 weeks before shedding slows way down, hair shaft base thickens, and new growth becomes apparent.

 

[Shay4]

Dsade,
So you suggest me to continue with The VM and JL ?
My Hair looks a bit thinner and I think its because I quitted Rogaine just before I started using VM and JL.
Please help Me !

 

[dsade]

Dsade,
So you suggest me to continue with The VM and JL ?
My Hair looks a bit thinner and I think its because I quitted Rogaine just before I started using VM and JL.
Please help Me !

Absolutely.

Likely the increased shedding is a result of the stagnant follicles being ejected to make room for new, active hairs. It is to be expected, and should soon reverse itself.

I have gotten about 15 reports all the same. I know your hair is VERY hard won, and it's disconcerting to see increased shedding again, but when it starts to fill back in even thicker than before your fears should be alleviated.

 

[SgtRotti]

well its been a few more days since my last post. A little more results to notice...

first off...I am a diffuse thinner. My hairline in pretty much intact but thin as well as from crown to mid area.

So I start VM...shedding stops completely 4 days later. Then Shedding starts but not very much, a few days after that.

However, hair begins to seem thicker..even with continued (slight) shedding. The only hairs shedding now are the weak ones that are getting pushed out for the new ones to come in.

Here is the next interesting part....

In the spaces between my hair shafts that were thinning there was no hair, no follicle signs at all. Today I took a good close look in the mirror and had a bit of a shock!

On those blad spots between existing hairs are little black dots(my hair is dark brown). It looks as if someone has taken a fine point sharpie and put little dots all over my thinning head .

so I take a closer look...and they are actually not just dots but little bumps as well ..as if the follicles are trying to come through...looks very promising!

well thats the feedback i have for now...i'll let you all know the next interesting events when they happen..(praying they happen).

one more thing..I have been on saw palmetto,msm,multivitamin for 2months as well. However that is it. No propecia,no minox...and no stupid laser brush/helmet/gun! lol

(no offence to those who believe that lasers work)

thanks RPN and Dsade for a seemingly amazing product! Will keep updates as I see em!

 

[phantom]

I am actually going to make a conditioner using a strong coffee extract, along with a coconut water extract, since the two seem to have utterly unique and beneficial properties for the hair itself.[/QUOTE]

Sounds great Matt-looks like another staple in the healthy hair stack.