The Lean Gains / IF learning and Discussion Log

fueledpassion

fueledpassion

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No offense, but that all sounds like hocum and flim flam if you ask me. Do you have a newsletter I can subscribe to?
?? Are u bein some sort of smart @$$ about the newsletter?

Its not hocum. Think about what drives BMR. Also think about what causes muscle wasting during typical efforts at cutting fat.

You search for the answer to those two questions and you'll see that total calories consumed will dictate lean mass and since lean mass is what burns calories...here we are again back at square one.

I can honestly say that certain meal timing will have benefits to keeping u lean or speeding recovery but other than that - total calories is what determines BMR. Now, this is assuming that u are eating at least once a day. Going 36-48hrs without eating will likely cause muscle wasting due to exhausted glycogen, ESPECIALLY if ur also training in that fasted window. Muscle wasting reduces BMR and thus lowers metabolism.

Numb nut noobs do this all the time by starving themselves in their attempt to burn fat. No bueno.
 
toddmuelheim

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?? Are u bein some sort of smart @$$ about the newsletter? Its not hocum. Think about what drives BMR. Also think about what causes muscle wasting during typical efforts at cutting fat. You search for the answer to those two questions and you'll see that total calories consumed will dictate lean mass and since lean mass is what burns calories...here we are again back at square one. I can honestly say that certain meal timing will have benefits to keeping u lean or speeding recovery but other than that - total calories is what determines BMR. Now, this is assuming that u are eating at least once a day. Going 36-48hrs without eating will likely cause muscle wasting due to exhausted glycogen, ESPECIALLY if ur also training in that fasted window. Muscle wasting reduces BMR and thus lowers metabolism. Numb nut noobs do this all the time by starving themselves in their attempt to burn fat. No bueno.
It all makes sense now. Thank you for your clear, concise and well thought out answer. I will continue to better myself with the help of gentlemen like you.
 
MrKleen73

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Go read up in medical and scientific studies if you want to see that meal frequency has no benefit on increasing metabolism. It can have an effect on protein synthesis but so does a small dose of amino acids especially leucine or glutamine during a fasting period. There is no magic here or on eating every three hours and neither is superior just different strokes for different folks.
 
The Solution

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There is no magic here or on eating every three hours and neither is superior just different strokes for different folks.
And thats why the lean gains guide was made:

http://www.leangains.com/2010/04/leangains-guide.html

and why the top 10 fasting myths was an epic article:

http://www.leangains.com/2010/10/top-ten-fasting-myths-debunked.html


1. Myth: Eat frequently to "stoke the metabolic fire".


Truth

Each time you eat, metabolic rate increases slightly for a few hours. Paradoxically, it takes energy to break down and absorb energy. This is the Thermic Effect of Food (TEF). The amount of energy expended is directly proportional to the amount of calories and nutrients consumed in the meal.

Let's assume that we are measuring TEF during 24 hours in a diet of 2700 kcal with 40% protein, 40% carbohydrate and 20% fat. We run three different trials where the only thing we change is the the meal frequency.

A) Three meals: 900 kcal per meal.

B) Six meals: 450 kcal per meal.

C) Nine meals: 300 kcal per meal.

What we'd find is a different pattern in regards to TEF. Example "A" would yield a larger and long lasting boost in metabolic rate that would gradually taper off until the next meal came around; TEF would show a "peak and valley"-pattern. "C" would yield a very weak but consistent boost in metabolic rate; an even pattern. "B" would be somewhere in between.

However, at the end of the 24-hour period, or as long as it would take to assimilate the nutrients, there would be no difference in TEF. The total amount of energy expended by TEF would be identical in each scenario. Meal frequency does not affect total TEF. You cannot "trick" the body in to burning more or less calories by manipulating meal frequency.

Further reading: I have covered the topic of meal frequency at great length on this site before.

The most extensive review of studies on various meal frequencies and TEF was published in 1997. It looked at many different studies that compared TEF during meal frequencies ranging from 1-17 meals and concluded:

"Studies using whole-body calorimetry and doubly-labelled water to assess total 24 h energy expenditure find no difference between nibbling and gorging".

Since then, no studies have refuted this. For a summary of the above cited study, read this research review by Lyle McDonald.

Earlier this year, a new study was published on the topic. As expected, no differences were found between a lower (3 meals) and higher meal (6 meals) frequency. Read this post for my summary of the study. This study garnered some attention in the mass media and it was nice to see the meal frequency myth being debunked in The New York Times.

Origin

Seeing how conclusive and clear research is on the topic of meal frequency, you might wonder why it is that some people, quite often RDs in fact, keep repeating the myth of "stoking the metabolic fire" by eating small meals on a frequent basis. My best guess is that they've somehow misunderstood TEF. After all, they're technically right to say you keep your metabolism humming along by eating frequently. They just missed that critical part where it was explained that TEF is proportional to the calories consumed in each meal.

Another guess is that they base the advice on some epidemiological studies that found an inverse correlation between high meal frequency and body weight in the population. What that means is that researchers may look at the dietary pattern of thousands individuals and find that those who eat more frequently tend to weigh less than those who eat less frequently. It's important to point out that these studies are uncontrolled in terms of calorie intake and are done on Average Joes (i.e. normal people who do not count calories and just eat spontaneously like most people).

There's a saying that goes "correlation does not imply causation" and this warrants further explanation since it explains many other dietary myths and fallacies. Just because there's a connection between low meal frequencies and higher body weights, doesn't mean that low meal frequencies cause weight gain. Those studies likely show that people who tend to eat less frequently have:

* Dysregulated eating patterns; the personality type that skips breakfast in favor of a donut in the car on the way to work, undereat during the day, and overeat in the evening. They tend to be less concerned with health and diet than those who eat more frequently.

* Another feasible explanation for the association between low meal frequencies and higher body weight is that meal skipping is often used as a weight loss strategy. People who are overweight are more likely to be on a diet and eat fewer meals.

The connection between lower meal frequency and higher body weight in the general population, and vice versa, is connected to behavioral patterns - not metabolism.
 
Sam1985

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Just read the entire thread. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Looking forward to incorporating some of these ideas into my meal plans.
 

teras

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It seems that IF stresses my body a lot. I cant control my hunger anymore. My gherlin sensitivity seems ****ed up. I really eat much more now, and still cant feel full anymore, when i eat a small meal. If you use IF it will might make you leaner. If you use it for short period, i believe it will destroy you.
 
Frank Reynolds

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If you change your diet from If to a frequant meal diet,a normal meal, wont be a normal meal to your stomach cause you wont feel satisfied, and you might need more.
The same way your body adapted to the decreased frequency and larger meals, it will revert back. I have flip flopped back and forth many times over the course of the last 4+ years..
 
toddmuelheim

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It seems that IF stresses my body a lot. I cant control my hunger anymore. My gherlin sensitivity seems ****ed up. I really eat much more now, and still cant feel full anymore, when i eat a small meal. If you use IF it will might make you leaner. If you use it for short period, i believe it will destroy you.
Try eating a big small meal.
 
Sam1985

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I started just on 5 weeks ago now. First two weeks I went a little overboard and was eating well over maintenance. I think a few people had this dilemma. IMO because each fast breaking meal seemed like a cheat (due to the amount of food consumed) it was hard to know when to stop. I've been running ABE and EP at the same time which helped prevent the extra weight gain but had to dial it in and start focusing if I wanted most of my gains to be lean.

Aside from the xmas and a few days since, I've been aiming for a calorie target and sticking with it. I did find my 3000 calorie target wasn't big enough (attributed to the above cycle and/or increased training efforts) as I was still dropping weight (previous baseline with around 27-2800 p/d) so I've bumped it up to 3500. So far am up 2KG (4.4lbs) since starting and waist has reduced so currently couldn't fault anything.

I have made a few changes to better suit me though.

Eating window - Instead of 16/8, I changed to 14/10 (I got this suggestion from one of Frank Reynolds' posts a year or so ago)
Build/Burn Days - I don't follow this protocol. I was finding I wasn't recovering well at all from the previous day's workout. I changed this just over two weeks ago and the low energy levels and increased DOMS have subsided considerably) I can attribute the joint pain etc. a side-effect of Erasepro. (I got this suggestion from The Solution)
 
The Solution

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I started just on 5 weeks ago now. First two weeks I went a little overboard and was eating well over maintenance. I think a few people had this dilemma. IMO because each fast breaking meal seemed like a cheat (due to the amount of food consumed) it was hard to know when to stop. I've been running ABE and EP at the same time which helped prevent the extra weight gain but had to dial it in and start focusing if I wanted most of my gains to be lean.

Aside from the xmas and a few days since, I've been aiming for a calorie target and sticking with it. I did find my 3000 calorie target wasn't big enough (attributed to the above cycle and/or increased training efforts) as I was still dropping weight (previous baseline with around 27-2800 p/d) so I've bumped it up to 3500. So far am up 2KG (4.4lbs) since starting and waist has reduced so currently couldn't fault anything.

are you cycling your intake or keeping it pretty consistent? how much are you varying your intake from workouts to non workout days.

I have made a few changes to better suit me though.

Eating window - Instead of 16/8, I changed to 14/10 (I got this suggestion from one of Frank Reynolds' posts a year or so ago)
Build/Burn Days - I don't follow this protocol. I was finding I wasn't recovering well at all from the previous day's workout. I changed this just over two weeks ago and the low energy levels and increased DOMS have subsided considerably) I can attribute the joint pain etc. a side-effect of Erasepro. (I got this suggestion from The Solution)
never heard of that 14/10, i only heard that from Martin regarding females and their intake/cycling. you have a link to the Reynold post or information? i always love learning about it.

I have never tried Erase Pro or ran it, so i dont know about the join point issue. i would personally make sure you are taking enough fish oil, elastamine/cissue/glucosamine

what kind of training program are you doing and how much cardio?
 
Sam1985

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never heard of that 14/10, i only heard that from Martin regarding females and their intake/cycling. you have a link to the Reynold post or information? i always love learning about it.

I have never tried Erase Pro or ran it, so i dont know about the join point issue. i would personally make sure you are taking enough fish oil, elastamine/cissue/glucosamine

what kind of training program are you doing and how much cardio?
There wasn't much info just a comment he made that it was his personal preference at the time. I probably jumped the gun a bit and should have just adjusted the 'burn' day as this is most likely the cause of the increased DOMS (I noticed they reduced within a few days of adjustment). I'm not religious about sticking to the 14 hour fast e.g. the last few days I've fasted for at least the full 16 hours per Martin's recommendation.

Currently taking Super Cissus. Will see what deals I can find on fish oil, elastamine & glucosamine. never heard of elastamine so will have to look it up.

Weight training - I make up my own routine but it's your 'normal' splits. Not in order but Day 1=Legs, Day2=Back, Day 3, Shoulders, Day 4=Chest, Day 5=Arms. I try to add in calves and abs at least once a week. My normal routine consist of heavy weights (4-6 rep range) to start, then as heavy as I can go on the 8-10 rep range. I'll usually finish off with a superset. Open to suggestions on a training routine. Cardio, I play indoor soccer once a week. Also a bit of playing at a park with mates (1-2 times a week), nothing too strenuous just kicking a ball around for an hour or so.
 

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Currently on Leangains (16/8 intermittent fast) and loving it. In about a month i'll be doing a Helladrol Cycle to recomp, would it be beneficial to continue leangains? Are there any issues with fasting while on cycle?
 
MaXopA

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Hey guys, have you got any favorite supplement stack while doing IF/Leangains/Carb-Backloading? I'm doing CBL, which should be quite similar to the other two in terms of the distribution of nutrients during the day
 
RecompMan

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Hey guys, have you got any favorite supplement stack while doing IF/Leangains/Carb-Backloading? I'm doing CBL, which should be quite similar to the other two in terms of the distribution of nutrients during the day
Melatonin with last carb meal is a must for me

I'd look into something like defuse/dcp2/recompadrol as well

Defuse pre workout and in between fat meals

Recompadrol first carb meal

Dcp2 last carb meal

Melatonin taken with first bite of carbs
 
The Solution

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Hey guys, have you got any favorite supplement stack while doing IF/Leangains/Carb-Backloading? I'm doing CBL, which should be quite similar to the other two in terms of the distribution of nutrients during the day
Right off his site

http://www.leangains.com/2010/01/supplements-you-might-actually-find_09.html

BCAA --> Fasted workouts (10g Prior)
Whey --> To meet protein intake
Creatine --> Endurance/Strength/Recovery (3-5g)
Fish Oil --> 2g EPH 1.5G DHA
Multi --> Take with first meal

Extra's
Pre-workout (if need for early morning training)
GDA --> For large carb meals (not post-workout)
 
MrKleen73

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Currently on Leangains (16/8 intermittent fast) and loving it. In about a month i'll be doing a Helladrol Cycle to recomp, would it be beneficial to continue leangains? Are there any issues with fasting while on cycle?
Wow where did you find Helladrol... no reason to change diets for running a cycle of designers. Still comes down to calories in and calories out. You eat enough to grow you will grow... I have some great recomp / lean mass gains where I came out leaner on the other end using designers with the lean gains protocol.
 

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Wow where did you find Helladrol... no reason to change diets for running a cycle of designers. Still comes down to calories in and calories out. You eat enough to grow you will grow... I have some great recomp / lean mass gains where I came out leaner on the other end using designers with the lean gains protocol.
Thanks MrKleen, looking forward to some lean mass gains!
 
Rosie Chee

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Hey guys, have you got any favorite supplement stack while doing IF/Leangains/Carb-Backloading? I'm doing CBL, which should be quite similar to the other two in terms of the distribution of nutrients during the day
Recompadrol is a MUST. Plus Erase. AnaBeta would also be a nice addition in there, and if I have it, Shred Matrix, but they're just "bonuses" and not "essentials".

~Rosie~
 
The Solution

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Does anyone here train in the AM, IF style, and then consume the majority of their carbs at night? Similar to the BioRythym diet...

Since it's not immediately post workout, would 300mg Na-R-ALA be beneficial and then a Slin Sane OG prior to bed?

Situation's results backloading the majority of his carbs at night has intrigued me from another thread, but I was curious if anyone could answer the Q I got below:

I usually consume most, if not all of my starches post workout, and have seen great results, but the BioRhythym diet/carb backloading interests me, considering after eating most of my carbs post workout leaves me stuffed for the day.

Love training semi-fasted, seen my best strength increases. And I love the 2-3 bigger meals approach than the smaller meals approach. I'm just curious if it doesn't make sense to consume them at night, when muscle insulin sensitivity is highest post workout, unless I'm an idiot and muscle cell insulin sensitivity will be high even if I finish training at 12:00 PM, and then potentially have about 85% of my carbs and all starches at 6:30-7:00 PM
PWO is usually P+F for me
Meal 2 is a lil more carbs around 100g
Rest pre-bed

take a GDA before meal 2 and meal 3

you will get the same results given you take in the same amount of kclas, how you shift them wont make much of a difference at all. It will actually help feed you for morning training and keeping glyocgen stores full overnight.
 
The Solution

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PWO as in post workout or pre workout?

On the GDA --> Bam, that's what I was curious about. I'll do the Na-R-ALA prior to my carb bonanza, and yeah I'm gonna keep the same macros / calories just interested to see if I'll feel anything different.

As a wise man once told me before I got into weight training: "Your body is your own science experiment, so get to experimenting"
post-workout
if you want to talk about results
go to leangains.com
and read the page and client results. Figured you would have if you are posting in here lol.
 
jswain34

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As solution said, i also follow a similar schedule. Practice 5:30-8:00 lift 8:00-9:00 3g leucine pre and post. Then 3g leucine at 11 and then break fast at noon.

First meal is eggs and pieces of bacon & sometimes cube steak. Sometimes a pes select microwave cake.

2nd has been celery and a tub of hummus. (About 40 cho)

3rd is jasmine rice, chicken, barbecue sauce, peas, and jalapenos. (200-300 g cho depending on legs/upper body day).

So as you can see, 1st meal is literally nearly zero carbs. 2nd is about 40. 3rd is nearly all of my carb intake for the day.
 
jswain34

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I also use either 2 caps of recompadrol or 2 caps of burn24 before meal 3.
 
The Solution

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Cool, that's essentially what I'm going to do. Might have a small banana post workout, or I'll just push that to the second one depending how I feel.

Recipe for the microwave cake???
go to my youtube (Bkupniewski)
have about 50 recipes you could use.
 
Whacked

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SM

I'm going to be following your feedback closely.

Your question is one inhale been meaning to ask as well as I am so a earth AM training guy who can't do carbs all day (during the day time) bc they make me feel awful/sluggish. As such, I have also contemplated an identical approach as yours (notwithstanding it making little sense from everything we "know"). Lol

Good luck and please keep this updated :)

Does anyone here train in the AM, IF style, and then consume the majority of their carbs at night? Similar to the BioRythym diet... Since it's not immediately post workout, would 300mg Na-R-ALA be beneficial and then a Slin Sane OG prior to bed? Situation's results backloading the majority of his carbs at night has intrigued me from another thread, but I was curious if anyone could answer the Q I got below: I usually consume most, if not all of my starches post workout, and have seen great results, but the BioRhythym diet/carb backloading interests me, considering after eating most of my carbs post workout leaves me stuffed for the day. Love training semi-fasted, seen my best strength increases. And I love the 2-3 bigger meals approach than the smaller meals approach. I'm just curious if it doesn't make sense to consume them at night, when muscle insulin sensitivity is highest post workout, unless I'm an idiot and muscle cell insulin sensitivity will be high even if I finish training at 12:00 PM, and then potentially have about 85% of my carbs and all starches at 6:30-7:00 PM
 
Whacked

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Have you noticed a discernible difference between these two?

If so, which do you prefer and why?

I also use either 2 caps of recompadrol or 2 caps of burn24 before meal 3.
 
jswain34

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I really havent noticed a huge difference because i use them differently. I tend to use recompadrol on days that i lift and eat more carbs in that final meal and burn24 on off/burn days where i eat anywhere from 50-100 carbs less in that last meal. The reason i do that is since burn24 has green coffee bean in it which iiirc has an effect on carbohydrate absorption (blocking some absorption). Also, burn24 is marketed more as a "fat burner" so i prefer to use that on days where im in a deficit. They are the two best GDAs ive used and you cant go wrong with either one imo. They both have berberine, which is one of the only glut-4 stimulators selective to muscle tissue (i read that somewhere, dont have the source on hand) which is why i prefer jt to be in any GDA that i use.
 
Whacked

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Well I like the seemingly sound approach.

To me, it seems like a logical one but I'm sure EBF and others will provide an argument for/against this mindset.

Thanks man

Ps- are you glucose intolerant/insulin insensitive (normally don't do well/feel well with carbs)?

I really havent noticed a huge difference because i use them differently. I tend to use recompadrol on days that i lift and eat more carbs in that final meal and burn24 on off/burn days where i eat anywhere from 50-100 carbs less in that last meal. The reason i do that is since burn24 has green coffee bean in it which iiirc has an effect on carbohydrate absorption (blocking some absorption). Also, burn24 is marketed more as a "fat burner" so i prefer to use that on days where im in a deficit. They are the two best GDAs ive used and you cant go wrong with either one imo. They both have berberine, which is one of the only glut-4 stimulators selective to muscle tissue (i read that somewhere, dont have the source on hand) which is why i prefer jt to be in any GDA that i use.
 
jswain34

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Well I like the seemingly sound approach. To me, it seems like a logical one but I'm sure EBF and others will provide an argument for/against this mindset. Thanks man Ps- are you glucose intolerant/insulin insensitive (normally don't do well/feel well with carbs)?
I look forward to their support/refute of my approach.

And ehhh thats kind of a toss up, it really depends on the source for me...i used to eat oats every morning but something about them just literally drains and i crash HARD after i eat them. Sucks because i really enjoy oats+protein powder+ peanut butter. But in comparison, i sometimes eat upwards of 300g of cho from jasmine rice some days and feel totally fine afterward.

Either way, the whole biorhythm diet diet The Solution has been talking about around the forums lately seems to really work well for myself too. I have coupled it with IF and i am seeing some really promising results (fat loss, fullness sticking around, strength). I think ill most likely keep the biorhythm coupled with IF for the foreseeable future.
 
The Solution

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Either way, the whole biorhythm diet diet The Solution has been talking about around the forums lately seems to really work well for myself too. I have coupled it with IF and i am seeing some really promising results (fat loss, fullness sticking around, strength). I think ill most likely keep the biorhythm coupled with IF for the foreseeable future.
Been doing it around a year, never felt better.
 
jswain34

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So, to get this straight... I workout around 11am... fasted (BCAA prior and intra), then eat around 1pm. This meal usually consists of around 50/50 protein/carbs, usually around the 700-800 calories mark. I'll then often have a protein shake with almond butter in the afternoon, maybe a protein bar or flapjack or something... then in the evening lean meat with more carbs and some dessert. My fat is typically quite low on workout days, 40-50g tops (sometimes less), but hardly any of that PWO, always later. But from what I'm reading about the Biorythm approach, it would suggest pretty much ALL carbs get moved to the evening, and I'd bring most of the fat PWO with protein? Is that right? I'm just wondering how much more advantageous this could be, or if it's simply an illustration that it really doesn't matter when you eat what you eat, as long as you hit your macros/calories during the day?
 
The Solution

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So, to get this straight... I workout around 11am... fasted (BCAA prior and intra), then eat around 1pm. This meal usually consists of around 50/50 protein/carbs, usually around the 700-800 calories mark. I'll then often have a protein shake with almond butter in the afternoon, maybe a protein bar or flapjack or something... then in the evening lean meat with more carbs and some dessert. My fat is typically quite low on workout days, 40-50g tops (sometimes less), but hardly any of that PWO, always later. But from what I'm reading about the Biorythm approach, it would suggest pretty much ALL carbs get moved to the evening, and I'd bring most of the fat PWO with protein? Is that right? I'm just wondering how much more advantageous this could be, or if it's simply an illustration that it really doesn't matter when you eat what you eat, as long as you hit your macros/calories during the day?
Why do you have a protein shake right after a PWO Meal? Thats pointless
why is your fat low post-workout? It does not matter what your fat intake is post-workout:

http://www.alanaragon.com/researchreview
Read that for Fat post-workout

There is no advantage to IF
there is no advantage to biorhythm
your caloric surplus or deficit is your advantage to your goal even if you eat 6 meals a day or 3 meals a day

Personal preference. Do what suits you and what you find optimal.
 
The Solution

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So, to get this straight... I workout around 11am... fasted (BCAA prior and intra), then eat around 1pm. This meal usually consists of around 50/50 protein/carbs, usually around the 700-800 calories mark. I'll then often have a protein shake with almond butter in the afternoon, maybe a protein bar or flapjack or something... then in the evening lean meat with more carbs and some dessert. My fat is typically quite low on workout days, 40-50g tops (sometimes less), but hardly any of that PWO, always later. But from what I'm reading about the Biorythm approach, it would suggest pretty much ALL carbs get moved to the evening, and I'd bring most of the fat PWO with protein? Is that right? I'm just wondering how much more advantageous this could be, or if it's simply an illustration that it really doesn't matter when you eat what you eat, as long as you hit your macros/calories during the day?
Why do you have a protein shake right after a PWO Meal? Thats pointless
why is your fat low post-workout? It does not matter what your fat intake is post-workout:

http://www.alanaragon.com/researchreview
Read that for Fat post-workout

There is no advantage to IF
there is no advantage to biorhythm
your caloric surplus or deficit is your advantage to your goal even if you eat 6 meals a day or 3 meals a day

Personal preference. Do what suits you and what you find optimal.
 
The Solution

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So, to get this straight... I workout around 11am... fasted (BCAA prior and intra), then eat around 1pm. This meal usually consists of around 50/50 protein/carbs, usually around the 700-800 calories mark. I'll then often have a protein shake with almond butter in the afternoon, maybe a protein bar or flapjack or something... then in the evening lean meat with more carbs and some dessert. My fat is typically quite low on workout days, 40-50g tops (sometimes less), but hardly any of that PWO, always later. But from what I'm reading about the Biorythm approach, it would suggest pretty much ALL carbs get moved to the evening, and I'd bring most of the fat PWO with protein? Is that right? I'm just wondering how much more advantageous this could be, or if it's simply an illustration that it really doesn't matter when you eat what you eat, as long as you hit your macros/calories during the day?
Fat is fine post-workout Please read:
http://www.alanaragon.com/researchreview
Click on the link

The advantages were listed in the link i posted: did you not read it?
http://forum.reactivetrainingsystems.com/content.php?108-The-Biorhythm-Diet

"-- By ingesting high-fat meals in the evening, you induce "metabolic inflexibility" – effectively disrupting metabolic rate and increasing fat storage, risk of obesity, elevated insulin levels and a reduction in insulin sensitivity.

-- By ingesting high-fat meals in the morning and afternoon, you increase metabolic flexibility – setting the metabolism for higher fat oxidation throughout the day. As LPL enzyme (splits up circulating fatty acids and makes them available for storage) is higher in muscle in the AM, fats are more likely to be burned off as energy or stored as lipid droplets within the muscle (IMTG).

-- By ingesting high-carb meals in the morning, the same “metabolic inflexibility” occurred, and the metabolism is fixed towards glucose oxidation instead of fat oxidation. This also increases fat storage from meals eaten during the day, and higher-fat meals eaten in the evening in particular.
-- By ingesting high-carb meals in the evening, you get a bump in the natural leptin signal (occurring 3-6hrs after going to sleep), essentially increasing fat burning through the night and the rest of the following day.

-- Insulin sensitivity is higher in all cells early in the day, including fat cells, but decreases towards the afternoon and evening, thus partitioning carbs ingested at this time more efficiently into muscle vs. fat. This is obviously further improved by training the muscle that day.

-- Eating carbs will increase the feel-good neurotransmitter serotonin and make you sleepy. What better time to have your carbs than a couple of hours before bedtime so you can fall into a deeper, higher-quality sleep"


There is nothing magical about BIorythm
There is nothing magical about IF
there is nothing magical about 6 meals a day
It comes down to "PERSONAL PREFERENCE" and what you find optimal.

.
Solution,

I wanna try your recipe for pancakes that were low carb... I see 5 eggs, 20g Cake Batter Whey, and baking powder. My Q is what are the macros for 20g whey?

I saw you had total macros including the frosting, but I was gonna just top it with peanut butter since I''m not a fan of greek yogurt and don't have any currently. Also, shouldn't be a problem if I put it in a waffle maker and make waffles as opposed to pancakes I would assume, correct?
Input 20g of whey of what you use in a myfitnesspal or fitday and it will come back
the whey i used in the video per 34g is 1g fat 1.5g Carbs and 24g protein
so probably like .7g fat, 1g carb, and like 13g protein or so?
Dunno
 
Johnston

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Why do you have a protein shake right after a PWO Meal?
Sorry didn't explain that clearly... I meant later in the afternoon, as I'm generally out and about. The whole fat post workout thing is very interesting... wasn't fully aware of that, although I knew it wasn't bad per se, I just didn't think it was good to be mixing it with carbs, which I thought were always preferable PWO.
 
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Sorry didn't explain that clearly... I meant later in the afternoon, as I'm generally out and about. The whole fat post workout thing is very interesting... wasn't fully aware of that, although I knew it wasn't bad per se, I just didn't think it was good to be mixing it with carbs, which I thought were always preferable PWO.
Where you hear that junk at? Muscle and Fitness?
 
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Still though, you're saying keep carbs low PWO and have them all in the evening anyway? Not because they would be bad with fat, just more effective to have them later.
 
Johnston

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If you wanna try the diet, then yes. If you don't want to try it then do what works for you and what pleases you. It's just a different method really, I tried it today and like it so far. Give it a two week run, and if you feel worse or don't like it go back to what you were doing. Two weeks of a test isn't going to kill you my friend, just jump in the water
You're absolutely right, and I'm all for that... I'm just a stickler for details and like to make sure I'm doing things right lol. :)
 
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Still though, you're saying keep carbs low PWO and have them all in the evening anyway? Not because they would be bad with fat, just more effective to have them later.
Only said this about 12 times....
 
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Fat is fine post-workout Please read:
http://www.alanaragon.com/researchreview
Click on the link

The advantages were listed in the link i posted: did you not read it?
http://forum.reactivetrainingsystems.com/content.php?108-The-Biorhythm-Diet

"-- By ingesting high-fat meals in the evening, you induce "metabolic inflexibility" – effectively disrupting metabolic rate and increasing fat storage, risk of obesity, elevated insulin levels and a reduction in insulin sensitivity.

-- By ingesting high-fat meals in the morning and afternoon, you increase metabolic flexibility – setting the metabolism for higher fat oxidation throughout the day. As LPL enzyme (splits up circulating fatty acids and makes them available for storage) is higher in muscle in the AM, fats are more likely to be burned off as energy or stored as lipid droplets within the muscle (IMTG).

-- By ingesting high-carb meals in the morning, the same “metabolic inflexibility” occurred, and the metabolism is fixed towards glucose oxidation instead of fat oxidation. This also increases fat storage from meals eaten during the day, and higher-fat meals eaten in the evening in particular.
-- By ingesting high-carb meals in the evening, you get a bump in the natural leptin signal (occurring 3-6hrs after going to sleep), essentially increasing fat burning through the night and the rest of the following day.

-- Insulin sensitivity is higher in all cells early in the day, including fat cells, but decreases towards the afternoon and evening, thus partitioning carbs ingested at this time more efficiently into muscle vs. fat. This is obviously further improved by training the muscle that day.

-- Eating carbs will increase the feel-good neurotransmitter serotonin and make you sleepy. What better time to have your carbs than a couple of hours before bedtime so you can fall into a deeper, higher-quality sleep"


There is nothing magical about BIorythm
There is nothing magical about IF
there is nothing magical about 6 meals a day
It comes down to "PERSONAL PREFERENCE" and what you find optimal.



Input 20g of whey of what you use in a myfitnesspal or fitday and it will come back
the whey i used in the video per 34g is 1g fat 1.5g Carbs and 24g protein
so probably like .7g fat, 1g carb, and like 13g protein or so?
Dunno
PWO is usually P+F for me
Meal 2 is a lil more carbs around 100g
Rest pre-bed

take a GDA before meal 2 and meal 3

you will get the same results given you take in the same amount of kclas, how you shift them wont make much of a difference at all. It will actually help feed you for morning training and keeping glyocgen stores full overnight.
post-workout
if you want to talk about results
go to leangains.com
and read the page and client results. Figured you would have if you are posting in here lol.
Just from the last few days.... and about 10 times in here:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/nutrition-health/241771-john-kiefer-carb-5.html#post4360101
 
RecompMan

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Have you noticed a discernible difference between these two?

If so, which do you prefer and why?
Not to answer a product and sound out of line on comparing but IMO they are completely different products.

Technically in the same category but two diff ones

I have some personal stash recompadrol left I'm not sure if you have used it yet. But shoot me a message ill send you one bottle.
 
RecompMan

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Well I like the seemingly sound approach.

To me, it seems like a logical one but I'm sure EBF and others will provide an argument for/against this mindset.

Thanks man

Ps- are you glucose intolerant/insulin insensitive (normally don't do well/feel well with carbs)?
He's doing it correctly

But if recall my posts none of them are technically selective.

And both Recomp and burn 24 block carb absorption but the ingredients in burn 24 are more suited toward lipolysis (via diff mechanisms the. Recomp) then recompadrol.

Burn 24 is more if a low carb day GDA IMO.
 

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