The Lean Gains / IF learning and Discussion Log

[Distilled Water]

I never bother to count carbs from veggies. Most of them are inconsequential and I find it to lead to more OCD-like behavior and losing focus on the big picture. On that note, I also don't count complete proteins either (e.g. oats, rice, etc.).

Ditto

 

[The Solution]

I never bother to count carbs from veggies. Most of them are inconsequential and I find it to lead to more OCD-like behavior and losing focus on the big picture. On that note, I also don't count complete proteins either (e.g. oats, rice, etc.).

you have to remember
3g of fat and 5g of protein in each serving of oatmeal
thats a good 50 calories your not even coutning at the end of the day
now if you had a half of a bagel instead that would be like .5g fat and 4-5g protein and would throw off if you dont eat the same thing everyday. .

Hence Consistency has to be on point.

Veggies you dont have to put on a scale, you can easily eyeball 1 or 2 cups and count it, but again its how each individual wants to do it.

 

[Johnston]

What about dust, that has dead skin in it which probably still has protein content, so I figure we must inhale at least a gram or two of that per day. That's a calorie surely.

 

[Rodja]

you have to remember 3g of fat and 5g of protein in each serving of oatmeal thats a good 50 calories your not even coutning at the end of the day now if you had a half of a bagel instead that would be like .5g fat and 4-5g protein and would throw off if you dont eat the same thing everyday. . Hence Consistency has to be on point. Veggies you dont have to put on a scale, you can easily eyeball 1 or 2 cups and count it, but again its how each individual wants to do it.

Here's the thing: you can get ultra anal with anything to a point where it's not productive. For example, the TEF of macros varies immensely from a very low percentage with lipids to almost 30% with protein. However, the accepted standard for TDEE is 10% for TEF, which is obviously not accurate. Counting every calorie in every single food is just stupid and is majoring in the minors.

 

[fueledpassion]

I let my phone app do the majoring in the minors. Since the technology exists, I cant understand why anyone would do it differently unless they didnt do ANY counting at all.

I dont have to major in the minors but I still have that info down to the last gram at my disposal..

 

[The Solution]

Here's the thing: you can get ultra anal with anything to a point where it's not productive. For example, the TEF of macros varies immensely from a very low percentage with lipids to almost 30% with protein. However, the accepted standard for TDEE is 10% for TEF, which is obviously not accurate. Counting every calorie in every single food is just stupid and is majoring in the minors.

This has nothing to do with counting calories lol
You asked about tracking kcals

I don't factor tdee or anything like that I just adjust kcals when I stall or don't add weight/strength

 

[Rodja]

This has nothing to do with counting calories lol You asked about tracking kcals I don't factor tdee or anything like that I just adjust kcals when I stall or don't add weight/strength

There isn't a difference between counting and tracking.

 

[mkretz]

In regards to veggies...I just count them as 50 carbs in my total and just go to town...eat as many as I want .

 

[The Solution]

There isn't a difference between counting and tracking.

So factor this
Someone does not count 6 cups of broccoli which is 180 calories
4g of fish oil which is 36 calories
10g of BCAA's which 40 calories

And then someone hits a stall and they do not regard well over 200

when you use different amounts of veggies per day or different sources and dont track them then your intake is inconsistent and will not be accurate when trying to make adjustments. These make a difference when trying to get to competition level of leanness (not saying everyone wants to compete) but it makes a difference.

So again it shows how it can play a factor and how it could not to someone say in the offseason or not really caring about ever cutting to lower levels of leanness, sure you could get damn lean not counting veggies, bcaa's or fish -oils but if you are CONSISTENT with the intake and then lower everything else you can still get there

more than 1 way to skin the cat, but honestly it takes 3 seconds in MFP to track fish-oils or bcaa's or veggies with a massive database.

same with people who do not count sugar free gum
Each peice is 2g of carbs, you eat 10 pieces thats another 80 calories that is untracked

300 calories a day untracked is 2100 a week uncounted.
Yeah

that adds up and makes a difference, especially when cutting.

 

[Rodja]

If you're going to track all that ****, then you might as well have a HR monitor on and calculate how many kcals you burn during a training session since TDEE varies each day and then calculate TEF of the respective macros that are consumed.

 

[The Solution]

If you're going to track all that ****, then you might as well have a HR monitor on and calculate how many kcals you burn during a training session since TDEE varies each day and then calculate TEF of the respective macros that are consumed.

You are entitled to your own opinion. If your going to track and just leave out a bunch of stuff you will never be consistent. Personal preference.

 

[Rodja]

You are entitled to your own opinion. If your going to track and just leave out a bunch of stuff you will never be consistent. Personal preference.

Majoring in the minors.

 

[MrKleen73]

The key with what The Solution said was really if you are consistent. Most of the things I don't track are repeated items that are pretty much always the same. If you are never counting the veggies but pretty much eat them every day then any adjustments you make will still be effectual. I think his statements are when you are not being consistent then things can be skewed somewhat. I always use picante on something but don't count it and adjust everything down and still use picante I am still going to lose the fat I am trying to.

I followed Scivation's diet plan for my contest and was by far the best conditioned guy at my show. We didn't count fiber in the calorie count but the adjustments downward moved the total down. As a matter of fact we didn't count trace carbs of any sort. Veggies were not counted, the grapefruit, and blueberries weren't counted. They were simply a built in part of the program. Of course it is a very consistent diet with a whole grapefruit and 2 cups of blueberries per day, so it didn't matter what was counted because the sources I used were almost always the exact same sources and the amounts did not change. I believe I read that the calories in soluble fiber are only like 1.7 calories after digestion so not really a huge consequence and insoluble fiber can not be digested at all.

My question was actually more based on the limiting insulin early in the day factor more so than the caloric intake. In other words do you eat your veggies throughout the day during low carb time or only with your back load. Keep in mind we already know that both fat and protein produce and insulin response as well as carbs but it is greater when combined with carbs.

I hadn't had time to complete that article on the other approach you linked me on the Back loading but will.

I am familiar with the Alan Arganon article you posted, he is one of my favorites. I understand the foods eaten with carbohydrates slow absorption of the carbohydrates which can limit the speed at which it increase of blood sugar. Yet back in the day I did not have that information which is why I brought it up as to why there was an ever changing evolution of what I thought to be dirty or clean. Back in the day the GI was the rage and what everyone used to decide if something was "dirty" or "clean".

 

[The Solution]

My question was actually more based on the limiting insulin early in the day factor more so than the caloric intake. In other words do you eat your veggies throughout the day during low carb time or only with your back load. Keep in mind we already know that both fat and protein produce and insulin response as well as carbs but it is greater when combined with carbs.
.

The Biorythm diet i linked you too suggests you can eat your veggies earlier because those are higher P+F meals, but in essence you can eat veggies whenever. They are veggies, not very caloric dense but have tons of micro's. They wont harm you in the carb load either. Think corn/carrots? I still eat peppers/onions/broccoli in big stirfrys in my load after my training or non-training. i still follow early morning P+F meals and later P+C Meals regardless if i train upon waking or in the afternoon. either way wont matter its total calories and how you want to set it up.

as you said "personal preference" for counting, for how you set up your meals, how many meals, macro tming etc

WE ALL RESPOND different, just showing what i have seen from many, what works for me, and what some of martin's clients see as well seeing i have worked with him in the past. Even with martin i did not swing kcals, i kept my fat/protein the same nearly or very close, and just altered carbs (did not drop them more than 30-50g on off days tops)

but for others he will swing them, that is just up to you and what you feel is best. For me if i dropped them a lot i felt horrible mood swings, bad energy, and lack of performance.

 

[Rodja]

The key with what The Solution said was really if you are consistent. Most of the things I don't track are repeated items that are pretty much always the same. If you are never counting the veggies but pretty much eat them every day then any adjustments you make will still be effectual. I think his statements are when you are not being consistent then things can be skewed somewhat. I always use picante on something but don't count it and adjust everything down and still use picante I am still going to lose the fat I am trying to.

I followed Scivation's diet plan for my contest and was by far the best conditioned guy at my show. We didn't count fiber in the calorie count but the adjustments downward moved the total down. As a matter of fact we didn't count trace carbs of any sort. Veggies were not counted, the grapefruit, and blueberries weren't counted. They were simply a built in part of the program. Of course it is a very consistent diet with a whole grapefruit and 2 cups of blueberries per day, so it didn't matter what was counted because the sources I used were almost always the exact same sources and the amounts did not change. I believe I read that the calories in soluble fiber are only like 1.7 calories after digestion so not really a huge consequence and insoluble fiber can not be digested at all.

My question was actually more based on the limiting insulin early in the day factor more so than the caloric intake. In other words do you eat your veggies throughout the day during low carb time or only with your back load. Keep in mind we already know that both fat and protein produce and insulin response as well as carbs but it is greater when combined with carbs.

I hadn't had time to complete that article on the other approach you linked me on the Back loading but will.

I am familiar with the Alan Arganon article you posted, he is one of my favorites. I understand the foods eaten with carbohydrates slow absorption of the carbohydrates which can limit the speed at which it increase of blood sugar. Yet back in the day I did not have that information which is why I brought it up as to why there was an ever changing evolution of what I thought to be dirty or clean. Back in the day the GI was the rage and what everyone used to decide if something was "dirty" or "clean".

I eat veggies in my meals prior to my backloads primarily consisting of broccoli, avocados (technically a fruit, but not the point), and green beans. Like you said, the calories within them are pretty much negligible once we factor in the indigestibility of insoluble fiber, the low calories of soluble fiber, and the resulting TEF.

 

[dieseljay74]

I let my phone app do the majoring in the minors. Since the technology exists, I cant understand why anyone would do it differently unless they didnt do ANY counting at all. I dont have to major in the minors but I still have that info down to the last gram at my disposal..

Same here. Just too damn convenient not to use it

 

[MrKleen73]

Excellent conversation in here guys. For the most part everyone here is correct. It is all personal preference. No one can argue that we all get good results based on our experiences. The biggest key is consistency in what we do.

I am going to read the rest of the Biorythm diet. Sounds more forgiving in the early part of the day. Reality is keeping the insulin / glucagon balance early in the day via carb restriction, and heavily tipping the balance to insulin in the evening is the biggest factor for the back load methods to work.

Me being a natural fatty and carb sensitive I do better on the toggle which is really why he recommends the carb toggling, not for everyone but for that situation specifically. You are not so dropping them on off days is not a good situation for you or probably safe to say most anyone with a fast metabolism for that matter.

 

[fueledpassion]

Excellent conversation in here guys. For the most part everyone here is correct. It is all personal preference. No one can argue that we all get good results based on our experiences. The biggest key is consistency in what we do.

I am going to read the rest of the Biorythm diet. Sounds more forgiving in the early part of the day. Reality is keeping the insulin / glucagon balance early in the day via carb restriction, and heavily tipping the balance to insulin in the evening is the biggest factor for the back load methods to work.

Me being a natural fatty and carb sensitive I do better on the toggle which is really why he recommends the carb toggling, not for everyone but for that situation specifically. You are not so dropping them on off days is not a good situation for you or probably safe to say most anyone with a fast metabolism for that matter.

Yeah, I think I'd get ripped if I went to the backloading/biorythm diet. Unfortunately, it aint in the cards for another 8 months or so..

With these diets, are you guys trying to accomplish something specific? Mass gain? Cutting cycle?

 

[RecompMan]

Excellent conversation in here guys. For the most part everyone here is correct. It is all personal preference. No one can argue that we all get good results based on our experiences. The biggest key is consistency in what we do.

I am going to read the rest of the Biorythm diet. Sounds more forgiving in the early part of the day. Reality is keeping the insulin / glucagon balance early in the day via carb restriction, and heavily tipping the balance to insulin in the evening is the biggest factor for the back load methods to work.

Me being a natural fatty and carb sensitive I do better on the toggle which is really why he recommends the carb toggling, not for everyone but for that situation specifically. You are not so dropping them on off days is not a good situation for you or probably safe to say most anyone with a fast metabolism for that matter.

Man I duno what I follow anymore

I eat 2x a day.

Aminos intra

Then aminos and 50g waxy post wait 30 min then

Eat: 50% protein 95% fat for the day

3-4 hours post meal I do aminos

Then 50% protein 90% carbs

Then bed.

Done. Biorhythm? Idk? Backloading ? I duno

Unsure how I feel about more then 30g waxy post workout. For these diets. Ill continue to try but keifer says 20-40g for density and 60-100 post for bulking. Even when training in the morning


Whatever homie do what works very it all tho and then take aspects if it all

Mine is I guess a mix of IF. Biorhythm , backloading.

Works for me

 

[The Solution]

Yeah, I think I'd get ripped if I went to the backloading/biorythm diet. Unfortunately, it aint in the cards for another 8 months or so..

With these diets, are you guys trying to accomplish something specific? Mass gain? Cutting cycle?

any diet can get you ripped, any diet works for bulking the only change is caloric amount

Biorythm you keep your early meals to P+F meals (beef/eggs, oll's, nuts, nutbutters, veggies etc) maybe small parts of berries or fruits.
Then later meals are more P+C based (rice, potatoes, pancakes, cereal, fruit, veggies etc...) i usually do massive stirfrys with potatoes/rice and some veggies like peppers/onions/tomoatoes and make different homemade sauces like sweet n sour, alfredo, curry's etc... that are on the lower kcal side but can be very high kcal depending on amounts and ingredients.

The reasoning or outline here:

"The take home points of this protocol

-During the first part of the day (all meals prior to weight training), focus on consuming Proteins & Fats, while keeping Carbohydrate intake low (<30g). Think meat & whole eggs with some additional Fats such as butter (grass-fed), or healthy oils (coconut / macadamia / olive). Also, be sure to consume some veggies and/or light fruit (berries or melon) with each meal.

-Pre-Training, consume 10g of BCAA (or 30g Whey) and a small amount of Carbs from fruit (5-20g).

-Post-Training, consume 30-50g Protein from a mixture of whey & casein, along with 30-50g Carbs from fruit. Including some saturated Fats (~5-15g) from dairy in this meal can be beneficial, as studies have shown this to increase Protein synthesis (link).

-Eat the absolute majority of your Carbohydrate intake at dinner time, about 2-3 hours before bed. Fat intake should be kept somewhat low during this meal, so focus on lean meats such as chicken breast or beef top-round. My go-to Carb sources in this meal are potatoes, white rice & gluten-free pancakes, but feel free to experiment to find what works best for you."


^^^^ I follow the same outline even if i train fasted early in the AM but is also great for those who train in the afternoon, i find a P+F meal holds me over and then the backloading at night aids with deeper sleep and seretonin levels from a massive amount of CHO prior to bed (as stated in his article)

Some things i enjoy:

I make a lot of protein pudding with yogurt/protein powder and then load up diced fruit (berries, bananas, apples) and top with cereals and granola for easy kcals.

Rice cakes with Jam and Honey and banana's are nice too

i eat a lot of sandwiches with fat free cheese and Baked french fries (potatoes cut into wedges) with BBQ Sauce or low-carb ketchup

If i bake things my homemade baked protein goods like loaves, muffins, or pancakes, Rice pudding, bread pudding etc. Very caloric dense and high carb and low fat.

Very simple...

Any of the P+F meals can be high kcal think 90/10 meat or 80/20 meat depending on your fat intake, using more oil's more nut butters etc....

 

[HokiePride]

Damn, you all make my head hurt! I just eat and grow! Gainnnzzz!

 

[dieseljay74]

Damn, you all make my head hurt! I just eat and grow! Gainnnzzz!

That works too! Lol

 

[The Solution]

Damn, you all make my head hurt! I just eat and grow! Gainnnzzz!

So do i, but i alter my meals to accomdate my body for optimal performance.

i Find greater energy with a pre-workout meal at least 2-3 hours prior to training (or else it sits too heavy) regardless of what it is, or train fasted and have my first meal after (this is what works best for me)

I find that eating the majority of my carbs later leads to
--> Increased Sleep
--> Increased sense of well being
--> Increased Energy
---> Better performance for early AM Training (fasted)


Its about reading your your body and seeing what works for you, while it may be a long read, it has a reasoning behind it.

 

[machwon04]

So I fast from 8:30 at night til 12:30 the next day. I normally train from about 11:30-12:15, so my first meal of the day is around 12:30-12:45. I'm wondering when the best time to consume the majority of my fats for the day is. I LOVE natty PB. I could sit and eat an entire jar with a spoon, but I'll normally consume 3-4 big spoons-full when I do eat it. Would it be better to do this with my first meal (post workout) or my last meal before bed?

 

[RecompMan]

So I fast from 8:30 at night til 12:30 the next day. I normally train from about 11:30-12:15, so my first meal of the day is around 12:30-12:45. I'm wondering when the best time to consume the majority of my fats for the day is. I LOVE natty PB. I could sit and eat an entire jar with a spoon, but I'll normally consume 3-4 big spoons-full when I do eat it. Would it be better to do this with my first meal (post workout) or my last meal before bed?

I'd hit some carbs and aminos. Then I shower do whatever and then hit your pro fat meal 30-60 min later with 2 scoops metabolic powder of course. Not necessary tho

 

[machwon04]

So then the last meal should be pro/carb?

 

[The Solution]

So I fast from 8:30 at night til 12:30 the next day. I normally train from about 11:30-12:15, so my first meal of the day is around 12:30-12:45. I'm wondering when the best time to consume the majority of my fats for the day is. I LOVE natty PB. I could sit and eat an entire jar with a spoon, but I'll normally consume 3-4 big spoons-full when I do eat it. Would it be better to do this with my first meal (post workout) or my last meal before bed?

I would do it PWO, no need for extra amino's since you are taking 10g pre-workout and your first meal is an hour later so the overlap and aminos are still present in the stream from a very short 45 minute workout.

You can add them however you wish, you could do a large meal PWO, a smaller P+F Meal, then another P+C meal later at night or you could go P+C, P+C, P+F

vary them up, see how you respond, and see what suits your body best.

 

[machwon04]

Hmmm, what if I'm not consuming 10g bcaa pre workout? Isnt that enough to spike insulin and take you out of fast?

 

[The Solution]

Hmmm, what if I'm not consuming 10g bcaa pre workout? Isnt that enough to spike insulin and take you out of fast?

You should be taking 10g BCAA for fasted training as dictated on the Leangains Guide and on martin's supplement guide.
After fasting for 16 hours training on an empty would be highly catabolic.

 

[machwon04]

Well technically training after 14.5 haha.

So you'd consume the PB with post workout meal? Save the carbs for later? I have a desk job, btw. Aside from walking around the office, I walk about 2 blocks to the gym and back at 11. I'll also take my dog for a walk after work in the evening, with some short jog intervals mixed in there. I do that prior to my last meal of the evening.

 

[The Solution]

Well technically training after 14.5 haha.

So you'd consume the PB with post workout meal? Save the carbs for later? I have a desk job, btw. Aside from walking around the office, I walk about 2 blocks to the gym and back at 11. I'll also take my dog for a walk after work in the evening, with some short jog intervals mixed in there. I do that prior to my last meal of the evening.

again
play around with your meals and see what suits you
You dont have to use PB, you could use whole eggs, avacado, MCT's, Olive Oil, ALmond, Nuts etc and other fat sources like 90/10 or 80/20 beef to hit your fat macros.

Try it in your PWO meal (lower carb), try having it in a middle meal (between two P+C meals) or try taking in pre-bed

i have found personally and as i have been stating since the last page when i have a large carb meal prior to bed to fuel AM fasted training it helps fill glycogen stores, aids deeper sleep, and provides better early morning workouts like you do yourself with fasted training.

 

[MrKleen73]

@The Solution, when you do train fasted AM training and I think you answered this before just curious and this is a very long thread to go back to find it. (Man I never thought it would be such a great and huge thread when I started it.) What time is it that you train and do you still do the protein and fat meal post even if early in the morning? In other words do you break the fast early to have that P/F meal or simply follow the LG recommendations of aminos immediately after then every 2 hours post workout until the fast is actually broken?


@machwon04 - If eating 3-4 big spoons full that is probably 9-16 tablespoons of peanut butter in one sitting. That is 72-128 grams of fat at once. You may want to measure that out and see what it is you are putting in your system. Most people who use a typical table spoon IE one you eat with and put a heaping scoop on their thinking it is a tablespoon do not realize they are getting 3-4 actual tablespoons per spoonful. I really recommend you at least measure one of those big scoops once so you have some idea how much you are getting in. Even at 9 tablespoons you are getting in between 700-1200 calories just in peanut butter if not more... Most people using nut butters in low carb periods who do not see results they expect are doing so because they do not realize how much more nut butter they are getting than they think.

 

[The Solution]

@The Solution, when you do train fasted AM training and I think you answered this before just curious and this is a very long thread to go back to find it. (Man I never thought it would be such a great and huge thread when I started it.) What time is it that you train and do you still do the protein and fat meal post even if early in the morning? In other words do you break the fast early to have that P/F meal or simply follow the LG recommendations of aminos immediately after then every 2 hours post workout until the fast is actually broken?

.

I train 5-6 a.m.
Have first meal around 11-12 whenever i get my lunch at work.
Take BCAA pre/intra-workout

 

[MrKleen73]

I train 5-6 a.m.
Have first meal around 11-12 whenever i get my lunch at work.
Take BCAA pre/intra-workout

I thought this is what you had said earlier. Just some of the wording in another post made me think I may have remembered wrong. Oh I found that article on another site. Saved it to my google drive, going to go ahead and incorporate that into my current plan. It just seems like a better option and the fact I can do some fruits and stuff in the earlier meals sounds great. I really like my blueberries and grapefruits.

Is there a spot where I can find some of his other recommendations for total carbs in the last meal? I mean yes I know it ends up being calories in VS calories out but does he have any other stuff on that site I could look at that you may have already saved a link to? I looked on Amazon to see if there was a book but if there is they don't seem to carry it.

 

[The Solution]

Is there a spot where I can find some of his other recommendations for total carbs in the last meal? I mean yes I know it ends up being calories in VS calories out but does he have any other stuff on that site I could look at that you may have already saved a link to? I looked on Amazon to see if there was a book but if there is they don't seem to carry it.

Does not matter as you said, cals in vs cals out. Do what suits your better if you dont want a huge pre-bed meal than eat less. There is no X amount that needs to be per meal.

What other stuff are you talking about?

 

[MrKleen73]

Does not matter as you said, cals in vs cals out. Do what suits your better if you dont want a huge pre-bed meal than eat less. There is no X amount that needs to be per meal.

What other stuff are you talking about?

I just saw on a post on the RTS site where someone was asking how many carbs for a female and there was something to do with a formula he had for something I cant remember if it was protein or carbs. Seemed like it was for carbs but it was late last night after my eyes started crossing but made me think there was probably more written somewhere on the diet with other specifics. I think I can actually come up with something pretty easily.

Let me ask you this, did you notice you could get away with eating more calories with this approach due to constant replenishment of leptin speeding up the metabolism via the late night carb intake as mentioned in the article?

 

[The Solution]

I just saw on a post on the RTS site where someone was asking how many carbs for a female and there was something to do with a formula he had for something I cant remember if it was protein or carbs. Seemed like it was for carbs but it was late last night after my eyes started crossing but made me think there was probably more written somewhere on the diet with other specifics. I think I can actually come up with something pretty easily.

Let me ask you this, did you notice you could get away with eating more calories with this approach due to constant replenishment of leptin speeding up the metabolism via the late night carb intake as mentioned in the article?

You cant get away with more calorie via any approach. Once you make too large of a surplus regardless of how you allocate your calories you will gain fat, metabolism will be repaired or fixed or better the longer you hold a leaner physique and grow in a leaner state. Think about how many people diet down and rebound and come back eating more calories in their offseason

why?
because the body grows in a lean state, the more muscle you have the more you can eat and the leaner you can stay and the better your metabolism may be. Now that may not always be true if you diet down and crash your metabolism on tons of cardio and very little calories via Layne Norton's Metabolic Damage series on youtube.

I just eat this way because very high fat bloats me, so if i train in the afternoon i have most of my fat out of the way and the P+C meals after training burn right through me and settle easy

if i train upon waking and have a P+F meal it holds me over until i get home from work or chores etc, and then i finish off my P+C meals and i sleep like a rock from all those carbs and increase seretonin levels as Borge suggested.

Now... Formula for femals and males will vary as you know

weight, heigh, activity, volume, cardio, NEAT etc.. all play factors.

 

[MrKleen73]

Makes sense on all points. I need to watch the Metabolic Damage Series will go check that out. I have a pretty good method I found on Mountaindogdiet.com for dieting out or a contest or extreme cut. I just need to get myself back to lean then put it to the test. I will probably try to take this down to around 6% then diet out for a couple months and decide if I am going to do a show while still in striking distance.

Definitely enjoying the addition of some veggies and berries in the earlier feedings. I have a feeling I am going to like the Biorythm Diet.

 

[The Solution]

Makes sense on all points. I need to watch the Metabolic Damage Series will go check that out. I have a pretty good method I found on Mountaindogdiet.com for dieting out or a contest or extreme cut. I just need to get myself back to lean then put it to the test. I will probably try to take this down to around 6% then diet out for a couple months and decide if I am going to do a show while still in striking distance.

Definitely enjoying the addition of some veggies and berries in the earlier feedings. I have a feeling I am going to like the Biorythm Diet.

A lot who try it enjoy it
is it made for everyone? No.. some peopel thrive off carbs in every meal
some people thrive off more P+F meals

again everyone is different and how they allocate their macronutrients and sources is up to them and their optimal performance.
Any diet is great on paper, but it comes down to human experiement.

 

[MrKleen73]

Completely agree! It is about what you can successfully maintain which is directly related to your personal comfort level within a dietary protocol.

 

[Distilled Water]

I don't know how u fukcers do it. I fasted today, not by choice bc we got slammed at work. I combined meals 1,2 &3 and ate that at 12pm (last meal was 8pm last night)

If I didn't run out of ketchup, I'd probably eat my arm off right now

 

[MrKleen73]

LMAO! Once your circadian rhythms get used to the feeding times you don't really get hungry until about 30 minutes before feeding time.

 

[toddmuelheim]

LMAO! Once your circadian rhythms get used to the feeding times you don't really get hungry until about 30 minutes before feeding time.

I definitely agree, it sucks at first but after a while you don't even think about food in the am

 

[mkretz]

I think abput food all day :-( love my feast though

 

[The Solution]

LMAO! Once your circadian rhythms get used to the feeding times you don't really get hungry until about 30 minutes before feeding time.

Bingo
Gherlin --> Hunger hormone
Your body adapts to ANY eating style you get used to

If you eat eveyr 3 hours your body naturally will get hungry
you fast for 16 hours usually it will stay that way.

 

[toddmuelheim]

Yeah but I also eat every 3 hours during my fast period to stoke the metabolic fire. It's the best of both worlds.

 

[The Solution]

Yeah but I also eat every 3 hours during my fast period to stoke the metabolic fire. It's the best of both worlds.

Eating during your window does not increase metabolism
Do you even ready anything on leangains? LOL

Metabolism has to deal with caloric intake, the less you eat the lower your metabolism drops. Those who can eat more have a higher metabolism

It has nothing to do with meal frequency

 

[toddmuelheim]

Eating during your window does not increase metabolism Do you even ready anything on leangains? LOL Metabolism has to deal with caloric intake, the less you eat the lower your metabolism drops. Those who can eat more have a higher metabolism It has nothing to do with meal frequency

You obviously don't subscribe to SELF magazine.

 

[fueledpassion]

Eating during your window does not increase metabolism
Do you even ready anything on leangains? LOL

Metabolism has to deal with caloric intake, the less you eat the lower your metabolism drops. Those who can eat more have a higher metabolism

It has nothing to do with meal frequency

Right. Metabolism is dictated by BMR which is determined by lean body mass, which is fed by calories.

Eating every three hours is good for super high caloric intakes and it helps sustain a steady blood glucose level, assuming u stay away from sugary foods and refined carbs. But it ultimately has little effect on metabolism. Its a matter of simple math really.

 

[toddmuelheim]

Right. Metabolism is dictated by BMR which is determined by lean body mass, which is fed by calories. Eating every three hours is good for super high caloric intakes and it helps sustain a steady blood glucose level, assuming u stay away from sugary foods and refined carbs. But it ultimately has little effect on metabolism. Its a matter of simple math really.

No offense, but that all sounds like hocum and flim flam if you ask me. Do you have a newsletter I can subscribe to?