The Lean Gains / IF learning and Discussion Log

Ya I know Frank. Too many options. I have also noticed I tend to get heartburn if I'm drinking too much bcaa and I've already drank 3 quarts of my drink mix today. Trying to stay super hydrated. Thanks for chiming in.
 
houstontexas said:
Ya I know Frank. Too many options. I have also noticed I tend to get heartburn if I'm drinking too much bcaa and I've already drank 3 quarts of my drink mix today. Trying to stay super hydrated. Thanks for chiming in.
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What is it sweetened with?

I personally wouldn't sip on BCAA's.. But that is something that is highly debated/Subjective. I tend to think it makes more sense to "pulse" them. Right or wrong, I don't know, just in my mind, it seems logically to make sense..lol
 
thsearfoss said:
Most likely a build up of stomach acid due to it being completely empty.
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Thanks man. Would it be horrible to implement a whey or casein shake in the morning to avoid this? Say 120 calories or so. I know we can tweak the program however we see fit for ourselves but I like to stick to the plan as much as possible. I already threw in the fish oil. Maybe some nuts instead of a shake. I'm just thinking out loud...
 
Frank Reynolds said:
What is it sweetened with?

I personally wouldn't sip on BCAA's.. But that is something that is highly debated/Subjective. I tend to think it makes more sense to "pulse" them. Right or wrong, I don't know, just in my mind, it seems logically to make sense..lol
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Well I have some unflavored that I mix with 1/2 serving of crystal light and I also have recoverpro powder. I mix it in a 3qt bottle and have about 20oz every hour to 1.5hrs. Around 30-40g or so from 6am to 12pm
 
I don't use IF but the protocol is no food until you break the fast. But if it is causing you discomfort or affecting performance and or health in any way then I assume a small shake would probably be ok to get something in your stomach. Maybe even half a protein shake.
 
thsearfoss said:
Most likely a build up of stomach acid due to it being completely empty.
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seriously doubt its acid build up due to lack of food:
lack of food = no vagal and hormonal stimulation of parietal cells which = no gastric acid secretion from the GIT mucosa.

As in its not the fast thats causing the heartburn.. fasts are used to relieve heartburn.

More likely your feeding window was filled with alot of acidic food in a shorter period of time than you normally eat it in, plus the supplements which are harsh on the GIT mucosa... = lasting heartburn. Basically your stomachs probably in override mode to deal with the larger meals.

How to address? Cut out non essential supps or take with food during feeding window, eat slowly when you are eating, eat more veggies and fruit to balance acidity (i know must fruits are acidic but their oxidation is alkaline in product). Maybe even widen your feeding window by a few hours to start with then taper it to 8 hours slowly so your body can get used to the increased serving sizes in reduced timeframes. You could also take antacids before and after eating.

that would b my suggestion,
cheers,
nathan
 
I didn't eat but about 1400 calories of mainly meat yesterday. As for my sleep it comes about 1.5-2hrs after my last meal and it's not going to be moving due to late workouts after work. It's just how IF works into my schedule. Thanks for the ideas guys.
 
ssbackwards said:
new dietary plan for myself....

3200 cals 210 fat 340 protein 30 carb MWF 9600
2800 cals 150 fat 30 carb 330ish protein T/TH/SUN 8400
2400 cals 110 fat 30 carb 330ish protein. 2400

Total calorie intake for the week 20,400 cals minus my maintence for the week 16,800= 3600 surplus for the week.

In theory i should put on a pound a week for atleast 4 weeks. should all be LEAN tissue considering dietary strategy, and macronutrient content. i wouldnt be surprised if i put NOTHING on either. we shall see.

MWF workouts are 1.3 mile run, then lift, then another 1.3 mile run

Tues/thurs are 10-14 rounds of kickboxing/boxing.

Saturday is an off day

Sunday is just a 20-30 minute run.

given this, i should be able to stay very lean.

doing a 2/12 fast, 2 meals 10-12 hours apart, fasted training. i will start on monday, but this week may be off due to refeed day of my tattoo. either way, that **** incinerate calories escpecially when being done for 5 hours.
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You would be my hero if you logged this!

I am in the process of dropping weight right now and then wanted to do a slow lean bulk and was contemplating between a IF + keto style diet or my standard 40/40/20 (P/F/C) style diet. Or finally give the lean gains style of IF a real try.

Sooooo... are you gonna be logging this bud?
 
JudoJosh said:
You would be my hero if you logged this!

I am in the process of dropping weight right now and then wanted to do a slow lean bulk and was contemplating between a IF + keto style diet or my standard 40/40/20 (P/F/C) style diet. Or finally give the lean gains style of IF a real try.

Sooooo... are you gonna be logging this bud?
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How about just doing LG, but with the 40/40/20?

My best results on LG came from using the diet(macros) I traditionally had the best results with, and adapting it to LG with the 16/8 fast/feed.
 
ssbackwards said:
update on topical with the aromasin and clen.

WINNING!

see a difference in 2 days!!!! much drier a little more vascular. and its been 2 ****ing days.
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I'm very interested in this stack you put together. If you could pm me with some more details that would be great. I would like to make something similar with a few less ingredients tho. Thanks man.
 
JudoJosh said:
I know I wasnt asked but I figured I would share :)

I feel that for mass gaining, the warrior diet really shines over lean gains. It is a period of under eating (not really 100% fasting) followed by a period of over eating.

Again I would recommend getting "Maximum muscle minimum fat" by Hoffmeckler but here is how I would do a mass gaining diet with the warrior diet.

Meal 1:
10g EAA
10g BCAA
10g Glutamine
3g Taurine

15mins later:
25g casein or egg proein (or whole food source just not something like steak)
4g fish oil
1 cup blueberries, blackberries, strawberries or a small salad

Meal 2 and 3 same as the first meal (amino mix followed by a small meal)

* Also if it is a training day I would have 10g EAA and 10g Glut prior to the workout and have 30g BCAAs intra workout and for post workout something like 40-60g WMS and 40-50g protein drink. (This pre & post meal will replace on of the above meals or if you like you can have your feast for post workout and not the WMS and whey)

Then meal 4 is the feast meal where you over eat. This really is the bulk of your calories for the day. Usually it is a big huge salad with some kind of meat and EVOO based dressing along with some rice (or quiona), a steak, sweet potato, EVCO, a whey shake and maybe a couple cookies or ice cream. The total macros and calories for this meal will be dependent on how fast you want to bulk and with how much spill over you are happy with. (I tend to not go too crazy as I think a lean mass bulk is far better than a balls to the wall all out bulk) If need be you can also divide the feast up into 2 big feedings (if your not able to get all the required calories in one sitting)

And then lastly before bed some cottage cheese or greek yogurt (or nothing if your already at your protein fill for the day)

It is a somewhat modified version of Hoffmecklers warrior diet approach and with regards to lean bulking, I find it works pretty well. Your under eating period (where your having aminos followed by a small meal) should last around 12 hours or so with a 4 hour over eating window.
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Very interesting layout. Mixing this with the build/burn day method could be a nice plan to me. Any links or website names I should look at as a guide? Thanks.
 
Today's TRIVIA will be at 1:00pm (Eastern Standard Time).... Invalid Link Removed
 
Just curious about some things and haven't seen much on this. I have went from 199 to 183 in 8 weeks. I was told bw x12 would be good for maintenance and then do +\- 20% for build and burn days. I thought I saw something like this as far as calories needed
Bwx12 - straight cut
Bwx13- recomp
Bwx14 - bulk

If that's the case would all those still incorporate 20% +\- or what would be different for the recomp and bulk.
 
wesg49 said:
Just curious about some things and haven't seen much on this. I have went from 199 to 183 in 8 weeks. I was told bw x12 would be good for maintenance and then do +\- 20% for build and burn days. I thought I saw something like this as far as calories needed
Bwx12 - straight cut
Bwx13- recomp
Bwx14 - bulk

If that's the case would all those still incorporate 20% +\- or what would be different for the recomp and bulk.
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All that is, is a means of calculating maintenance. If you know your maintenance just do 20/20 based on that. If you don't use the bw x 12-13 and go from there altering calories as needed based on results. If you get fat easy and generally have a slow metabolism start with bw x12
 
Frank Reynolds said:
All that is, is a means of calculating maintenance. If you know your maintenance just do 20/20 based on that. If you don't use the bw x 12-13 and go from there altering calories as needed based on results. If you get fat easy and generally have a slow metabolism start with bw x12
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X2....BWX13 is what seems to work best for me for figuring maintenance
 
Frank Reynolds said:
I use bw x 5 because my metabolism sucks. Lol (kinda srs)
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for a lean bulk you do BWx 18-20

for recomp you do bx x 16-18

obviously the lower number for slower metabolism, middle number for normal metabolism , higher for faster metabolism.

also you can look at it in terms of intensity of workouts.
 
I'm glad frank mentioned his are much lower. It really varies by person
 
ssbackwards said:
bwx16-18 on build

bwx 13 on burn (which requires cardio to meet the caloric reduction IMO)
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I personally don't like that method, but to each their own.

I prefer to use the bw x X to get a maintenance and then use a percent based on goals.
 
Everything should be based on YOUR activity level I know for me to build I need to do bwx 18-20For recomp 16-18For maintence 13These should essentially be generic. Do the miffeon equation. These numbers are pretty damn close to miffleon and work betterPeople like frank for a lower metabolism shuold use lower number. If cals are too low consistently you **** yoiurself in the long run garenteed
 
My friend who has been on Lg for about 4 months is planning a 12 week test e cycle which leads me to wonder. How would an AAS cycle on LG be? I haven't stepped to the dark side before but am curious for my friend.
 
wesg49 said:
My friend who has been on Lg for about 4 months is planning a 12 week test e cycle which leads me to wonder. How would an AAS cycle on LG be? I haven't stepped to the dark side before but am curious for my friend.
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It's possible...as long as he eats and eats and eats during his time frame, has his pct and serm ready to go It should be ok... Maybe flick mattrag a message about this or visit his new thread. I THINK, he is doing LG on cycle
 
Anyone get extremely bloated after their first meal? I'm not sure if it's because I eat 75% of my calories at 4 and stop eating by 8 or 9, but the past few days I've felt like I was going to explode.


Also, any negatives to this?
 
mxer657 said:
Anyone get extremely bloated after their first meal? I'm not sure if it's because I eat 75% of my calories at 4 and stop eating by 8 or 9, but the past few days I've felt like I was going to explode.

Also, any negatives to this?
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Maybe a food sensitivity man...what foods combos you doing?
 
runner_79 said:
Maybe a food sensitivity man...what foods combos you doing?
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Whateve they have at the food hall at my college. Today was a big bowl of beans and chilli, 3 sausage hotdogs, PB&J, bowl of cereal, glass of water, and glass of gatorade. When I got home, 3 scoops of whey with water.
 
mxer657 said:
Anyone get extremely bloated after their first meal? I'm not sure if it's because I eat 75% of my calories at 4 and stop eating by 8 or 9, but the past few days I've felt like I was going to explode.


Also, any negatives to this?
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I don't. Then again, it also depends on what and how much I eat.

There are negatives to almost everything - you just have to find the medium that works for you and your body the best. Experiment with meal timing and quantities consumed in each meal, and go with what makes you feel the best.

~Rosie~
 
maintenance calories are at least slightly affected by quality of calories too. if I have 2 weeks where I eat the same total # of calories but one week has a lot more sugar or high GI carbs, i'm likely to add a little fat that week.
 
EasyEJL said:
maintenance calories are at least slightly affected by quality of calories too. if I have 2 weeks where I eat the same total # of calories but one week has a lot more sugar or high GI carbs, i'm likely to add a little fat that week.
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So you can't eat your days worth of maintenance calories with donuts??

Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk
 
The types of carbs we can eat and get away with will vary from person to person right. Some ppl can get away with lucky charms in bulk while others need to stick to a cleaner approach like whole grain, sweet potatoes, etc. I've been having a big dose of dextrose in my shake, followed by numerous cinnamon bagels and whole grain pasta in whatever combo I want. It's only been a week but I look leaner. My burn days are around 1600 and my build days vary from 2800-3300 lol. I really enjoy my build days.
 
EasyEJL said:
maintenance calories are at least slightly affected by quality of calories too. if I have 2 weeks where I eat the same total # of calories but one week has a lot more sugar or high GI carbs, i'm likely to add a little fat that week.
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I find this only an issue if other macros aren't in check.

I notice no difference with my carb sources being anything I want, as long as cals, and over all macro goals are met.

I am not sitting around eating doughnuts all day though, as there would be no way I could hit my targets like that.

But eating ff/lf ice cream and low fat waffles daily, while cutting made no diff vs those same macros/cals in oats,etc.
 
mxer657 said:
Whateve they have at the food hall at my college. Today was a big bowl of beans and chilli, 3 sausage hotdogs, PB&J, bowl of cereal, glass of water, and glass of gatorade. When I got home, 3 scoops of whey with water.
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Probably the beans LOL.
Try some Gut Health?
 
wesg49 said:
My friend who has been on Lg for about 4 months is planning a 12 week test e cycle which leads me to wonder. How would an AAS cycle on LG be? I haven't stepped to the dark side before but am curious for my friend.
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He'll gain weight easy w/ minimal bloat.
 
wesg49 said:
Would it be best to keep doing the 3 day WO plan he has and 4 burn days or change that for test cycle?
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Nothing changes. Train, and eat. Do the plan you want to do. If you are not gaining weight adjust calories. If you are getting too fat(for your goals) scale back a tad. You wanna lift 3 days, lift 3 days. You want to lift 5 lift 5, just know your "build" days will likely have to be lower for the added frequency of a surplus. It is all weekly calories at the end of the day.
 
runner_79 said:
It's possible...as long as he eats and eats and eats during his time frame, has his pct and serm ready to go It should be ok... Maybe flick mattrag a message about this or visit his new thread. I THINK, he is doing LG on cycle
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Yeah he was. Switched it up to a Layne Norton based protocol. He was crashing hard
 
EasyEJL said:
maintenance calories are at least slightly affected by quality of calories too. if I have 2 weeks where I eat the same total # of calories but one week has a lot more sugar or high GI carbs, i'm likely to add a little fat that week.
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Doesn't matter for some people, me as example...
I usually eat nothing but oats, egg/egg whites, Chicken, 96% beef, brown rice, spinach, whey...generally slow carb, and good protein sources and if I'm over my maintenance (it changes constantly) I gain fat...dam my Mexican genes/heritage!!!
 
Great posts in here. I go away for a few days and have 10 pages to read. I love it! I get credit for being a guru here but I am not the most knowledgable. Definitely not the most meticulous, but I loves Intermittent Fasting so much I had to let others know. I love how much conversation goes on in here about everything. That all the IF strategies get touched on and we all learn from each other and discuss without flaming!

I was going to start counting my calories again to drop my weight but instead I just started keeping an eye on them. I am recomping nicely again right now. Well maybe burning fat a little faster but adding some muscle too. Just doing it lifestyle wise. I sat her reading this and have a nice big bowl of turkey spaghetti about 1.5 cup of noodles and 12 oz worth of groundturkey meat sauce. Then a peice of Layne Norton cheesecake. I made it with an extra 60 grams of chocolate protein powder, half cup of milk, 2 tbls of almond butter and 2 tbls of crunchy peanut butter and it was delish!!!! Came out in a consistecy I could have eaten with a fork or just chomped on as a bar.

I love this, I had some good grub earlier today too, just two meals today and about to finish my macros out with a cup of cottage cheese with cinnamon and splenda. MMMMMM! Did I mention I LOVE Intermittent Fasting?


Oh yeah free goodies and hot bodies here:
I know we are all a sucker for a smoking hot ladies with a six pack. So for the next EndoSurge, & Combustion contest it is all about the Sexiest Ab Shot.

Kinda like this!
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This contest is at this link:
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Winners to be picked at post 450!!!!​
 
Frank Reynolds said:
Sounds like a hell of a feast kleen!!

I'm about to smash some self serve fro-yo. Booom lol
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Frank,

I wonder I know you could have probably gained more weight probably even more muscle but do you think you would have maintained the extra you gained during the following cut or would you take a longer time to cut down instead of the yoyo. I mean would you think to eat harder and heavier for say 6-8 months then spend the same amount of time getting back to you current body fat?

I kind of think for the most part you probably didn't leave much on the table when you compare the entire cycle of gaining then cutting back down.

Of course it really all depends on what the goals were. I think if in the long term you are really trying to gain the most mass possible over a longer period of time then obviously fasting shorter periods may allow for more calories to be consumed and to be consumed while maintaining more comfort. IE not stretching you stomach out and being so full you feel ill. If also adding some fat during that time was not a concern, then it would be ewasier to do so. However in that sense to keep it by switching to a recomp strategy with IF and dropping the fat gained in the same or only slightly shorter amount of time you took to gain it then you may realize a lot more size gain when it is all said and done. By that I mean Say you eat big for 6-8 month, then recomp for say 6 months you may very well keep more of it then you gain Yet I don't know if the difference would be worthwhile to say give up the cuts you love especially if making gains as you are now and looking great almost all the time. I am curious and think that you would be a great person to test the theory since you are already meticulous.

I also think from a health standard you are probably healthier with current eating strategies, I could be wrong those are just my thoughts. More important to me than size is health quality of life and staying what I consider aesthetic. I was borderline diabetic before IF, even eating lower carb, IE under 150 a day, I now have PERFECT fasting blood sugar levels. Remarkable the Doc said. My lipids and everything are picture perfect. That was when I was not watching my food intake for a while eating a lot more carbs than usual and actually gaining a little fat. So to me at 200 lbs I really don't worry too much about it anymore. I will probably drop to between 190-195 and just try to live in that area. That will be a remarkably lean physique on my 5'8 frame. Not as wow as yours but I am a pretty happy man.
 
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