~~test prop...tren ace...nuff said~~

imprezivr6 said:
I disagree, but to each his own..

Some think fasted cardio is more effective for fat loss, some feel there is no difference and it is more beneficial to consume Pro/Carb pre cardio, to help blunt cortisol, and preserve muscle.

It all comes down to preference.. To say it is "worthless" is a bit much..lol

Layne Norton-
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well...as the article you posted doesnt really give us all the info i will speculate a little....i would imagine for these results to be accurate they did a low intensity workout....it does state that it was two hours long....so if you are in a fed stste doing two hours of low intensity cardio this could be accurate...but this would not apply to 20 min of high intensity cardio post workout...and as stated before i wouldnt do any more thatn 20 min of cario post workout....so any low intensity stuff woulnt apply post workout
 
mooch2321 said:
well...as the article you posted doesnt really give us all the info i will speculate a little....i would imagine for these results to be accurate they did a low intensity workout....it does state that it was two hours long....so if you are in a fed stste doing two hours of low intensity cardio this could be accurate...but this would not apply to 20 min of high intensity cardio post workout...and as stated before i wouldnt do any more thatn 20 min of cario post workout....so any low intensity stuff woulnt apply post workout
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You said you do LIT, fasted as well no?

But as far as your speculation, it is just that.. Would, could, should, but in reality we don't know :)

At the end of the day, it is a never ending debate..lol We can even open up the "LIT vs HIT" argument. It all comes down to preference..

In that debate some people HATE HIT, and some swear by it.. Who is right? Who knows..


I say do what you feel is best, and what works for YOU. My problem is don't make statements like "xx is worthless" because somewhere out there, there is someone doing xx with good results. Lets try and clarify fact, from opinion.

ps. I am not disagreeing with you by the way, just opening up a lil perspective. I actually do fasted LIT cardio on off days, but if it were ME, post workout, id drink my shake first. But then again if it was ME, i wouldn't be doing cardio on my training days.. see where i am coming from? lol
 
nosnmiveins said:
about 2 days left of tren and 2 weeks of prop. bodycomp change?...i havent noticed tooooooo much, but i see myself everyday.
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Cool man.. look forward to seeing some afters..

What do you think of this cycle in comparison to your first cycle, as far as gains made, how you felt, etc?
 
imprezivr6 said:
You said you do LIT, fasted as well no?

But as far as your speculation, it is just that.. Would, could, should, but in reality we don't know :)

At the end of the day, it is a never ending debate..lol We can even open up the "LIT vs HIT" argument. It all comes down to preference..

In that debate some people HATE HIT, and some swear by it.. Who is right? Who knows..


I say do what you feel is best, and what works for YOU. My problem is don't make statements like "xx is worthless" because somewhere out there, there is someone doing xx with good results. Lets try and clarify fact, from opinion.

ps. I am not disagreeing with you by the way, just opening up a lil perspective. I actually do fasted LIT cardio on off days, but if it were ME, post workout, id drink my shake first. But then again if it was ME, i wouldn't be doing cardio on my training days.. see where i am coming from? lol
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well "worthless" is too strong of a statement you are correct....any cardio at any time is going to be beneficial....let me put it this way...for nos's application drinking the shake before cardio would not be as beneficial as waiting until after...as with depleted glycogen stores he will be burning more fat...my current training regimen incorporates both hiit and lit(as i stated before) i have come to this point after years of trial and error while dieting....and as far as you disagreeing with me...i welcome a learned discussion....you obviously have a lot of knowledge and you should always state your opinions....this is how we learn from each other....
 
Empty stomach cardio has always been significantly more effective for myself. I've always done 30-45 minutes of low intensity treadmill walking at a small incline. I believe Lyle McDonald also sides with the empty stomach cardio.
 
mooch2321 said:
well "worthless" is too strong of a statement you are correct....any cardio at any time is going to be beneficial....let me put it this way...for nos's application drinking the shake before cardio would not be as beneficial as waiting until after...as with depleted glycogen stores he will be burning more fat...my current training regimen incorporates both hiit and lit(as i stated before) i have come to this point after years of trial and error while dieting....and as far as you disagreeing with me...i welcome a learned discussion....you obviously have a lot of knowledge and you should always state your opinions....this is how we learn from each other....
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I understand what your saying, but it is my understanding that glycogen is not going to depleted to any great degree from a short(60min) training session, especially when one is consuming a diet higher in CHO.


I also was reading almost this exact debate on another board where layne said
str8flexed said:
you do not have to be glycogen depleted to burn fat. This is another myth
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Royd The Noyd said:
Empty stomach cardio has always been significantly more effective for myself. I've always done 30-45 minutes of low intensity treadmill walking at a small incline. I believe Lyle McDonald also sides with the empty stomach cardio.
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As i said.. For every top level person we can find on one side of the fence, there is his counterpart on the other side.
 
Royd The Noyd said:
I agree. Find what works for YOU.
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Pretty much..

Like i said from the start, my one issue is with blurring the line of OPINION and FACT.

That is one of my biggest issues with body building boards. Everything "i do" is the BEST, and everything everyone else does sucks, or doesn't work. We state allot of things as fact, when in reality it is opinion.

Even when we quote studies, there is likely another study contradicting it..lol

I just try to make it clear in ALL of my posts that this is my opinion or experience.

Often times you see "you can't do that" "you MUST do this" "this is the best way", "you have to do xx reps" you get the idea.

It comes down to figuring out what works best for you.
 
imprezivr6 said:
Pretty much..

Like i said from the start, my one issue is with blurring the line of OPINION and FACT.

That is one of my biggest issues with body building boards. Everything "i do" is the BEST, and everything everyone else does sucks, or doesn't work. We state allot of things as fact, when in reality it is opinion.

Even when we quote studies, there is likely another study contradicting it..lol

I just try to make it clear in ALL of my posts that this is my opinion or experience.

Often times you see "you can't do that" "you MUST do this" "this is the best way", "you have to do xx reps" you get the idea.

It comes down to figuring out what works best for you.
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well...sometimes the blurred line between opinion and fact is not so blurry....the snippets thrown out from lane nortons statements are not giving a whole story here....i dont think lane or lyle would recomend drinking a sugary-carbfilled postworkout shake before doing 20 min of cardio....sometimes while you are finding out what works for you it still helps to look at the science behind what you are doing and what has worked for other people in the past....

edit: oh and everything i do is in fact the best way...and if you dont do it my way you will most likely die....just food for thought...
 
mooch2321 said:
way you will most likely die....just food for thought...
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^
LOL.. true..

The snipets aren't telling the whole story at all, but at the same time i am not posting them as my own, or even as fact.. Just showing a differing opinion, that goes against what your saying..
i dont think lane or lyle would recomend drinking a sugary-carbfilled postworkout
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I can't fully answer that, because i am not them.. ALTHOUGH in the same thread, i got those Layne snipets, someone asked this.
albert88 said:
Layne I have decided to stop the morning cardio and only do HIIT after my lifting but I have a question - I'm currently using Torrent after my work outswhich gives me 20 grams of wpi and 50 grams of sugar. The 20 grams of protein isnt enough post work out you say?
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str8flexed said:
are you taking anything else with it?
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albert88 said:
Nope just Torrent by itself then food about 1 hour later.
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str8flexed said:
i would have food closer to the torrent if possible... or if not, then a few grams of bcaa
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It sure doesn't sound like he is discouraging a sugary carb drink, post workout, pre cardio....
 
that guy never said he was taking it in between weights and cardio...he said post workout...to me that would be after the whole workout....but again we dont have the whole story so this is only speculation....mabye next time post a link instead of snippets so that way we can get a better view of whats going on...its very easy to make a quote biased in your opinion...like you did when you quoted..."i dont think lane or lyle would recomend drinking a sugary carb-filled post workout" this makes it sound like I am saying not to use a fast carb post workout when that isnt what i said at all...
 
mooch2321 said:
that guy never said he was taking it in between weights and cardio...he said post workout...to me that would be after the whole workout....but again we dont have the whole story so this is only speculation....mabye next time post a link instead of snippets so that way we can get a better view of whats going on...its very easy to make a quote biased in your opinion...like you did when you quoted..."i dont think lane or lyle would recomend drinking a sugary carb-filled post workout" this makes it sound like I am saying not to use a fast carb post workout when that isnt what i said at all...
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That is the entire dialog, between layne and him. Honestly you are right about him possibly consuming it post "cardio" but considering it was in a thread about not doing "fasted" cardio, i "figured" he meant pre cardio, but that could most definitely a misunderstanding on my part:)


I didn't mean to make it sound like you were giving advice on what to use, or not use, rather just isolate that portion of your post so you know what i was responding to.
 
imprezivr6 said:
That is the entire dialog, between layne and him. Honestly you are right about him possibly consuming it post "cardio" but considering it was in a thread about not doing "fasted" cardio, i "figured" he meant pre cardio, but that could most definitely a misunderstanding on my part:)


I didn't mean to make it sound like you were giving advice on what to use, or not use, rather just isolate that portion of your post so you know what i was responding to.
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i figured that was what happened but i was just using that to make my example....but this is all still moot...as we already stated my way is the only way of doing things....i mean seriously...why take the chance...you could die....
 
i'm handling a mL ed and i look forward to the injections, my stuff isn't painful at all. In fact i'm curious about the pain, is it supposed to happen when you're injecting, or is it the delayed kind of tight/sore feeling in the muscle?
 
Hey was just wondering this:
What do you think of this cycle in comparison to your first cycle, as far as gains/progress made, how you felt, etc?
 
imprezivr6 said:
Hey was just wondering this:
What do you think of this cycle in comparison to your first cycle, as far as gains/progress made, how you felt, etc?
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thats actually a great question.

overall well-being was MUCH better on my first cycle. probably because it was HG test-e. i did gain 25lbs but there was definitely muscle memory helping me out.

with this cycle, other than the random boners and awesome strength...i havent noticed much. i feel like i may be leaning out but i'll leave that up to yall when i post ending pics
 
nosnmiveins said:
thats actually a great question.

overall well-being was MUCH better on my first cycle. probably because it was HG test-e. i did gain 25lbs but there was definitely muscle memory helping me out.

with this cycle, other than the random boners and awesome strength...i havent noticed much. i feel like i may be leaning out but i'll leave that up to yall when i post ending pics
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Dude, SAME EXACT THING when I ran this combo. I was pinning 200mg TP and 50mg TA every day and all I really noticed was a mental boost and drying effects. :wtf:

I thought this was supposed to be the king of all drug stacks...
 
Irish Cannon said:
Dude, SAME EXACT THING when I ran this combo. I was pinning 200mg TP and 50mg TA every day and all I really noticed was a mental boost and drying effects. :wtf:

I thought this was supposed to be the king of all drug stacks...
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what do you expect from the tren when you are taking 1400mg of test and 350mg of tren. Up the dose, the tren freaks that aren't susceptible to sides can run 75-100mg ed and make remarkable progress.
 
UnrealMachine said:
what do you expect from the tren when you are taking 1400mg of test and 350mg of tren. Up the dose, the tren freaks that aren't susceptible to sides can run 75-100mg ed and make remarkable progress.
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It's not at all necessary to run tren that high. I've used it at 75mg and the only difference it made was more severe insomnia.
 
idk i guess it doesn't work as well for you. tren is supposed to be king, i hope it works well for me. I'm crossing my fingers for the chance that i'm one of those tren freaks.
 
Irish Cannon said:
I had nasty sides and didn't see much in terms of strength. Most have good results with it.
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Hmm .. you had the nasty sides, but nothing significant in terms of strength? I'm wondering if you were even popping Tren then .. nonetheless Tren Ace. Or if your lab was legit .. I'd put so many questionmarks to the products [of that cycle] if I didn't come out looking like King Kong with shredded glutes and obliques ..

.. and 200mg Test Prop each day?! Did you do this because the product WAS underdosed? $hiiiiiit ... one hefty dosing right there!

.. and sex drive while on the prop? and the tren?
 
Nos knows that tren will be in my #2 cycle. As for when i'll do the future cycling well it depends on the results of this one, so i am still waiting to see. I was close to canning everything before I found the prop and hcg.
 
mooch2321 said:
just outa curiosity what did u use as an estrogen solubizer?
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I believe I may have purchased the estrogen solubilizer separately from a website for about $25. I can't totally remember. It was a few years ago. I know I also used a yellow bottle of HEAT in there somewhere, but I don't think that had anything to do with the estrogen, just dissolving the pellets.
 
yeah heat dissolves the pellets....most of the products used as estrogen solubizers dont get rid of all of it...did you have any estro related issues with this cycle?
 
mooch2321 said:
yeah heat dissolves the pellets....most of the products used as estrogen solubizers dont get rid of all of it...did you have any estro related issues with this cycle?
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About a week in I had some estrogen issues, but I started taking 10mg of Tamoxifen EOD and that fixed that.
 
great workout today. i think the tren is out of my system because i actually had great endurance today, felt awesome.

lat pulldown 265x12, 295x10, 300x5

lawnmower pulls (bent over DB pulls) 110x12, 110x15, 110x12...110lbs is the heaviest they have :(

dont know why but i got some crazy looks when i was only doing 405 deadlifts for 5 reps off the floor.....not too impressive im my eyes, but whatever.

weight was a little over 205 today. im incorporating 10 minutes of cardio 5x a week to see if i can trim some belly fat. i really dont see a need in working abs directly, they're clearly there and hard as a rock just from squats, deads etc...but that little layer of fat is hiding them :(. overall mood is pretty fantastic
 
been off tren since friday, yet strength is going up still :confused:

set a PR today, nothing spectacular, but a personal best for me.

incline db 100x10, 110x8, 110x6

after 3 sets of incline DBs and 3 sets of flat bench i was able to push out 4 reps @ 275lbs (PR)....kinda shocked me

weight was 201 today. i hate that it fluctuates sooooo much. i eat till i want to puke and then i eat more but weight want go over 205 on a good day.

prop is back to 100mg EOD, i have a little over a week left
 
That's good, your bench is way up. About working the abs, i started working my abs heavy a while ago (meaning resistance exercises) and they responded amazingly well and actually grew a lot, it makes them more apparent even when there's more bodyfat on them. I've been working abs like that ever since to keep it up. You should give it a try.
 
UnrealMachine said:
That's good, your bench is way up. About working the abs, i started working my abs heavy a while ago (meaning resistance exercises) and they responded amazingly well and actually grew a lot, it makes them more apparent even when there's more bodyfat on them. I've been working abs like that ever since to keep it up. You should give it a try.
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what kind of exercises do u do for abs?
 
ive been training the same way unreal....i do abs one day a week and its heavy resistance stuff....ie...reverse cable crunches(heavy), resisted situps, weighted hanging leg raises and knee-ups.....etc.etc....
 
yeah exactly, cable crunches for sure, weighted crunches, leg raises (make them hard enough to keep reps 10-15), weighted obliques etc.

I had to stop doing weighted obliques because they became too big.
 
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