djbombsquad
Board Sponsor
I was just thinking about it and if APS uses prolensis and some other ingredients than I could see it being a different product. Like crea pure we know its proven.
question on Bulbine Natalensis
- Thread starter djbombsquad
- Start date
needtogetmuscle
Banned
Yes but that is still not attacking anyone one... SO call it what ever swining nuts, post whoring, spam what eva but its not attacking anyone in any manner.
I got no problems with APS and I wish them well and have done so through the whole thread.
Royd The Noyd
Board Sponsor
Do you think thats really any different than anything that increases test? There is a strong correlation there imo
GodofWine
Member
While I agree on the correlation thing....I cannot for the life of me ever remember seeing a study / user feedback / bloodwork to this point on other T-boosters.
The only one remotely similar (in that it was bad) was Fadogia damaging the testes of rabbits I believe.
EasyEJL
Never enough
Well, you don't see it in TRT, that people who were at 200ng/ml of testosterone being put on 100mg every 5 days seeing their HDL collapse like that. Not that i think its impossible or even unlikely, just haven't seen much other documentation of it on other products.
Blergs
Well-known member
not when you get lead with your results :sigh1:
thebigt
Legend
check my credibility, i don't recommend bunk supps. it a product is soso i will say so. i am selective of the supps i will do a log on, they have to appeal to me- not just because they are free. if i recommend a supp, you can bet i really liked it and had above average results.
if i am lucky enough to log testalensis, you can bet it will be an honest review.
JudoJosh
Pro Virili Parte
mw1
Sponsor
Here is some additional info from from Angelbolic at MFF:
Well, well here's another study that demonstrates negative liver and kidney effects of bulbine natalensis in the doses used in products on the market today.
From the FT:
Alterations in the liver and kidney histology in this study
further lend credence to the localized=selective toxicity of
the extract. This, however, could explain the alterations in the
functional parameters of the liver and kidney investigated.
It can therefore be concluded that the alterations in some
indices of liver and kidney function as well as the selective
morphological changes in the organs following treatment
with the aqueous extract of B. natalensis stem is dose and
parameter specific. The liver functional indices were more
adversely affected than the kidney parameters, probably
because the liver is a vulnerable target to a number of toxicants
since it metabolizes foreign substances to compounds
that may be hepatotoxic as well. The hepato- and nephrotoxic
effects of the extract will adversely affect the normal
hepatic and renal functioning of the animals. Therefore, the
plant is not completely ‘‘safe’’ in male rats when repeatedly
consumed for 14 days.
Effect of Bulbine natalensis Baker Stem Extract on the Functional Indices and Histology of the Liver and Kidney of Male Wistar Rats
I'd stay far away from this herb. At least untill the makers can show a full HUMAN blood panel with n=5 minimum.
Well, well here's another study that demonstrates negative liver and kidney effects of bulbine natalensis in the doses used in products on the market today.
From the FT:
Alterations in the liver and kidney histology in this study
further lend credence to the localized=selective toxicity of
the extract. This, however, could explain the alterations in the
functional parameters of the liver and kidney investigated.
It can therefore be concluded that the alterations in some
indices of liver and kidney function as well as the selective
morphological changes in the organs following treatment
with the aqueous extract of B. natalensis stem is dose and
parameter specific. The liver functional indices were more
adversely affected than the kidney parameters, probably
because the liver is a vulnerable target to a number of toxicants
since it metabolizes foreign substances to compounds
that may be hepatotoxic as well. The hepato- and nephrotoxic
effects of the extract will adversely affect the normal
hepatic and renal functioning of the animals. Therefore, the
plant is not completely ‘‘safe’’ in male rats when repeatedly
consumed for 14 days.
Effect of Bulbine natalensis Baker Stem Extract on the Functional Indices and Histology of the Liver and Kidney of Male Wistar Rats
I'd stay far away from this herb. At least untill the makers can show a full HUMAN blood panel with n=5 minimum.
VaughnTrue
Well-known member
VaughnTrue
Well-known member
I don't believe you should be. In ProLensis human testing(with blood work I an every other ProLensis using company has seen) there were no significant changes in liver values nor cholesterol.
I'm speaking with a guy on PHF right now to try and get his liver/lipid values checked pre and post cycle on Tropinol.
BB12
Well-known member
I don't believe you should be. In ProLensis human testing(with blood work I an every other ProLensis using company has seen) there were no significant changes in liver values nor cholesterol.
I'm speaking with a guy on PHF right now to try and get his liver/lipid values checked pre and post cycle on Tropinol.
Cool...thanks
mw1
Sponsor
no but a 50% drop in 14 days can equal some pHs . Its just odd that Prolensis will only provide "their" blood work to companies buying it but not to the general public
)
mw1
Sponsor
Keep in mind those "neg reports" were part of the "study" companies are using to promote it.
Hopefully these ind. get more than saliva tests:facepalm:
VaughnTrue
Well-known member
Lol at the same people who claim "rat studies don't mean ****!" are the same people claiming "rat studies mean a ton!"
Ahhhh hypocrisy
Ahhhh hypocrisy
mw1
Sponsor
Well thats all people have to go on since Prolensis refuses to release their full studies to "the public"
mw1
Sponsor
Thats odd ALL the sponsored testers have "phenomenal" results:aargh:
bdcc
Legend
I can see this turning into a company slanging match which isn't my objective by any means.
As a natural lifter I was keen to see how this panned out, it was made to sound like the holy grail.
My concerns with the iForce product are;
- Users should see upwards of 6-9lb muscle gain.
- The two alpha testers were below normal ranges for T
- When I asked when the other bloodwork was coming in I was told something vague like "when they are ready" after the initial estimate date went by.
- Claims on the packaging were based on a rat study alone
- So far I haven't read a log from anyone who has gained as much mass as the range you are supposed to gain "upwards of".
Up until the possibility of a sharp dive in HDL scores I was still interested to try it. I would prefer to see more bloodwork on cholesterol and T scores (from people who are actually classed as healthy in the first place).
That is it. No hate, no sparking fights. Just genuine concerns any rep is welcome to address if they wish.
Bry17
Well-known member
I can see this turning into a company slanging match which isn't my objective by any means.
As a natural lifter I was keen to see how this panned out, it was made to sound like the holy grail.
My concerns with the iForce product are;
- Users should see upwards of 6-9lb muscle gain.
- The two alpha testers were below normal ranges for T
- When I asked when the other bloodwork was coming in I was told something vague like "when they are ready" after the initial estimate date went by.
- Claims on the packaging were based on a rat study alone
- So far I haven't read a log from anyone who has gained as much mass as the range you are supposed to gain "upwards of".
Up until the possibility of a sharp dive in HDL scores I was still interested to try it. I would prefer to see more bloodwork on cholesterol and T scores (from people who are actually classed as healthy in the first place).
That is it. No hate, no sparking fights. Just genuine concerns any rep is welcome to address if they wish.
One more thing you should add...if the rat studies showed a very significant increase in testosterone much like human trials now, then what makes companies (denying these results) think the Lipid/cholesterol/liver concerns won't translate as well?
bdcc
Legend
I didn't think that until this was said.
I would like to think if such a drastic drop in HDL levels was possible and known about at least a warning would go out to people that were taking it. Naturally I don't expect this to happen but if I had cholesterol issues and this made things worse I wouldn't be happy to find bloodwork suggests it is a possibility and I wasn't made aware of it.
Milas
Board Sponsor
Over at MFF Sldge posted some bloodwork showing ALT/AST/HDL were all in normal ranges post-use.
While I'm sure some will nit pick, given Matt's reputation in the industry I don't think he'd fabricate that. It helps set my mind at ease, though I would still like to see more users blood work...
While I'm sure some will nit pick, given Matt's reputation in the industry I don't think he'd fabricate that. It helps set my mind at ease, though I would still like to see more users blood work...
mw1
Sponsor
Studies were posted or indiv bloodwork?
VaughnTrue
Well-known member
Thanks Milas
This is why were selling Tropinol with 100% support behind it. We are 100% confident any/all human testing has shown no cause for concern in either lipid or liver issues, yet we see MASSIVE increases in testosterone in users who check their blood/saliva.
This is why were selling Tropinol with 100% support behind it. We are 100% confident any/all human testing has shown no cause for concern in either lipid or liver issues, yet we see MASSIVE increases in testosterone in users who check their blood/saliva.
SynergyIre
Active member
Loving Tropinol so far here with no noticeable sides and generally feeling healthy. Curious of course to see any research on the matter, but hope to be using it for a long time to come.
Good stuff :bling:
mw1
Sponsor
You are probably right there
SynergyIre
Active member
mw1
Sponsor
Hell look at some of the unsubstantiated claims made in some of these threads:bling:
broons
Member
I raised pretty much the same question several weeks ago in another thread. It wasn't addressed then I doubt it will be now.
jin
Member
i just finished a month on bulbine stacked with dermacrine with some less than stellar results.
thinking that quercetin might prolong bulbine's activity, leading to a buildup past effective concentrations, thereby leading to a loss of lean mass, rather than any gains.
at least, that is the best hypothesis i have
for the terrible outcome of this 65dollar fukup.
dosing this stuff is tightrope walking.
plus the possible organ damage that comes with too much in the system...
nasty.
thinking that quercetin might prolong bulbine's activity, leading to a buildup past effective concentrations, thereby leading to a loss of lean mass, rather than any gains.
at least, that is the best hypothesis i have
for the terrible outcome of this 65dollar fukup.
dosing this stuff is tightrope walking.
plus the possible organ damage that comes with too much in the system...
nasty.
OVERHAUL
New member
When Google's first page can only return links to bodybuilding/fitness related sites (bar wikipedia) for "Bulbine Natalensis" instead of solid medical or scientific papers, removed from anyone tied to a company or dumbbell, then it tells me something is not right.
"The extract produced higher effects on the liver functional indices (39%) than the kidney parameters (21%). Histological examination revealed slight distortions in the architecture of the liver lobules as well as proximal and convoluted tubules of the kidney. The alterations produced in some of the functional indices as well as in the hepatorenal architecture may adversely affect the normal hepatic and renal functions. The parameter-specific effect of the extract suggests selective toxicity. This is an indication that the extract is not completely "safe" as an oral remedy."
U.S. National Library of Medicine
National Institutes of Health
"The extract produced higher effects on the liver functional indices (39%) than the kidney parameters (21%). Histological examination revealed slight distortions in the architecture of the liver lobules as well as proximal and convoluted tubules of the kidney. The alterations produced in some of the functional indices as well as in the hepatorenal architecture may adversely affect the normal hepatic and renal functions. The parameter-specific effect of the extract suggests selective toxicity. This is an indication that the extract is not completely "safe" as an oral remedy."
U.S. National Library of Medicine
National Institutes of Health
DaJaP
Member
VaughnTrue
Well-known member
Guys these are the same studies being posted over and over and over.
The rat studies showed potential liver/lipid issues. Humans were then given the herb and levels checked. No one showed any signs of issues on either.
broons
Member
Way back in I think December, I raised the very same question about possible adverse effects and your reply was that the study was done using an aqueous extract and Prolensis is not an aqueous extract. And also that Prolensis had done testing for said potential side effects and found it to be safe.
Personally, I think it is fair for consumers to be concerned with what's going into their bodies and be able to measure any possible risks, however probable or improbable, against the rewards. Since obviously not everyone scours pubmed for published studies. Which is why the drug commercials always end with the list of possible side effects just to let the consumer know, "hey, this stuff will probably not happen to you, but just so you know..." kinda thing