question on Bulbine Natalensis

[VaughnTrue]

Did they state they had 500k??????

To do a decent sized run of BN, you need at least 150kg.


Ok...so 150,000kg? Better?

 

[EasyEJL]

To do a decent sized run of BN, you need at least 150kg.


Ok...so 150,000kg? Better?

For let's say 4mg a cap, 120 cap bottle is 480mg. Round it to 500 for easy math. To do a 2000 bottle initial run needs 1kg final, or 100kg raw. Even at 20000 bottles. It's only 1000 kg raw.

 

[thebigt]

For let's say 4mg a cap, 120 cap bottle is 480mg. Round it to 500 for easy math. To do a 2000 bottle initial run needs 1kg final, or 100kg raw. Even at 20000 bottles. It's only 1000 kg raw.

you make it look so.....'easy', easy. lol.

 

[VaughnTrue]

For let's say 4mg a cap, 120 cap bottle is 480mg. Round it to 500 for easy math. To do a 2000 bottle initial run needs 1kg final, or 100kg raw. Even at 20000 bottles. It's only 1000 kg raw.

Look at the prop blend...it's not dosed in 1-5mg amnts...

 

[beni182]

As for question #1 , I have also been wondering this
#2.......you will probably never get an answer

I like how my questions falls on deaf ears.

My faith in iforce and DS for that matter is dropping...

 

[MidwestBeast]

you should get a medal, lol.:biggthumpup:

Do I get silver, then? :lol:

 

[thebigt]

Do I get silver, then? :lol:

lol-reps if you read the whole thread.:bling:

 

[mw1]

Edit: Nevermind i read the whole thread now

May i suggest Snow White for the next time you want to read a "fairytale"?

 

[EasyEJL]

Look at the prop blend...it's not dosed in 1-5mg amnts...

I looked but couldn't find a label.

 

[VaughnTrue]

I like how my questions falls on deaf ears.

My faith in iforce and DS for that matter is dropping...

Your faith in iForce? Lol what?

I'm sure Matt will answer the question, he's not on here often


How does it affect your view of iForce tho? We don't own the material rights lol

 

[MidwestBeast]

lol-reps if you read the whole thread.:bling:

lol unfortunately

 

[StackedCop]

lol-reps if you read the whole thread.:bling:

My head hurts....

 

[thebigt]

My head hurts....

i bet....:aargh:

 

[JudoJosh]

lol-reps if you read the whole thread.:bling:

I read some of the first page and ALL of this page and my head hurts now.. :frustrate ... Does someone have a cliff notes version of this topic?

Is it basically APS has rocked the supplement world with mesomorph and creatine nitrate and are about to relase another product and now is being attacked by opposing companies and people who have invested into a counter product? And now a bunch of forum members are crying "we want studies or blood work or yada yada yada"...

is this about right?

 

[beni182]

I read some of the first page and ALL of this page and my head hurts now.. :frustrate ... Does someone have a cliff notes version of this topic?

Is it basically APS has rocked the supplement world with mesomorph and creatine nitrate and are about to relase another product and now is being attacked by opposing companies and people who have invested into a counter product? And now a bunch of forum members are crying "we want studies or blood work or yada yada yada"...

is this about right?

 

[EasyEJL]

I read some of the first page and ALL of this page and my head hurts now.. :frustrate ... Does someone have a cliff notes version of this topic?

Is it basically APS has rocked the supplement world with mesomorph and creatine nitrate and are about to relase another product and now is being attacked by opposing companies and people who have invested into a counter product? And now a bunch of forum members are crying "we want studies or blood work or yada yada yada"...

is this about right?

No, i'll agree with Vaugn that where APS says the material is from doesn't match where its known to grow, and that a 100:1 extract when you don't have the MOA of the product known to be sure of what standard you are extracting for is definitely wishy washy. Doesn't mean though that it isn't right, or won't be effective though, we just need to wait and see.

 

[Rahl]

No, i'll agree with Vaugn that where APS says the material is from doesn't match where its known to grow, and that a 100:1 extract when you don't have the MOA of the product known to be sure of what standard you are extracting for is definitely wishy washy. Doesn't mean though that it isn't right, or won't be effective though, we just need to wait and see.

I have to say I've fairly enjoyed the thread. I've learned a few things about BN in the reading. The bickering could be done with out but it's a supplement forum. What would it be without bickering? :aargh:

 

[thebigt]

I have to say I've fairly enjoyed the thread. I've learned a few things about BN in the reading. The bickering could be done with out but it's a supplement forum. What would it be without bickering? :aargh:

lol-check out Bickering Buttheads.com.:aargh:

 

[StackedCop]

lol-check out Bickering Buttheads.com.:aargh:

Lol BB.com?

 

[jin]

Lol BB.com?

genius.:friday:

 

[thebigt]

Lol BB.com?

damn-i didn't even have to give clues.:bling:

 

[thebigt]

genius.:friday:

you must be a regular, lol.

 

[needtogetmuscle]

LOL, I have nothing against AR, I have no problem with him. I just don't trust some of the things he says, like after a couple days of Testalensis 100 write up he wrote The great Bulbine Natalensis Swindle part-3. It seems like that was directed at our bulbine extract.

He also made a comment on our facebook page as if APS doesn't know anything about bulbine. Anthony Roberts- After reading that thread, I think you guys are very confused about Bulbine natalensis.

Now you say AR Makes nothing off the sale of my product I know because I ain't cutting him no pay checks for it. But when I go to
http://www.anthonyroberts.info/tag/anthony-roberts-blog/ I see NTBM and Phytoserms347 ads....

I'm not really sure why you care so much about me saying I don't trust what he says and I think he is on the prolensis payroll, it's my opinion, I don't care if he is getting paid, as a matter of fact I hope he is because it seems he is promoting it a lot.

I wasn't trying to start a bulbine fight, Vaughn started putting down our extract on this and other forums, I'm just defending our product.

I think everyone should try Tropinol, Phytoserms347 and Testalensis 100 and let the customers choose which one they prefer.

The great bulbine swindle was written because of" Anabolic Designs BULLK "
product my friend. Because this tiny was trying to claim " they were the first ever to discover and use bulbine and in fact they still are trying to claim that lmao... When everyone in this whole damn industry knows it as a fact that I put it out first under ruthlesssupplements aka ruthless.inc . The whole subject of the bulbine swindle Articals is about other companies lying through there teeth and making the false claims they were/ are the first... It amazes me some of these places are still trying to make this claim. Its a fact we were the first no one else.

As for my banners on Ar's Site I am a business man my friend and I know where to place advertisements to get different crowds of people. Ar Has banners to needtobuildmuscle.com too and he does not own half my company? He has banners to a blog of some kinds and I am sure he does own that ether.

No I Pay to advertise on his site just like I pay to advertise here on anabolicminds. If I handed anabolicminds a phytoserm-347 banner and said " put this banner up here is some cash" I am dead sure they would put the banner up and gladly take my money...

Anthony runs My NTBM banner and the phytoserm347 banner because I pay for advertising and that is the banner I told him to run. I am the paying customer and if I told AR to put up a banner of my **** I bet he would put that up. WOuld that make him my pimp???? NO it make me the client and I get wtf I want tee hee.

SO I guess you can say AR makes some kind of money since I sponsor his blog yes. Just like you can say anabolicmind and 50 other sites/people makes money off me too. :afro::afro:

 

[needtogetmuscle]

Why does the location of growth even matter....if it comes out with a standardized amount of active ingredients then who cares. Sounds like a move to discredit BN grown in other locations. And if so...what is the difference?

Ever get some dank weed grown in Jamaica?
Then some swag As$ weed grown in some dudes back yard?

Big difference. Just saying is all :afro:

 

[needtogetmuscle]

we do sponsored logs to help get the product name out there and to show people what it can do. I personally like sponsored logs a lot, but many on the forums do not. simply pointing that out.



he wasn't on PCT. he has naturally very low levels from what he told me.

I am a fan of logs too :mischievous:


Logs logs lots of logs for all. :aargh:

 

[Blergs]

I hear aps is using "Hi-Tech Pharmaceuticals"
to make there new bulbine/fadoga product.
If this is true this worries me a bit from things i have read over time. for eg here are a few links that are a MUST read:
http://www.fda.gov/Food/GuidanceComplianceRegulatoryInformation/ComplianceEnforcement/ucm081856.htm
http://www.fda.gov/Safety/MedWatch/SafetyInformation/SafetyAlertsforHumanMedicalProducts/ucm168017.htm
http://google2.fda.gov/search?q="Hi-Tech+Pharmaceuticals+"&client=FDAgov&site=FDAgov&lr=&proxystylesheet=FDAgov&output=xml_no_dtd&getfields

juust worries me is all and people should know. :-(

 

[needtogetmuscle]

I like how my questions falls on deaf ears.

My faith in iforce and DS for that matter is dropping...

The reason they did not come out with it is simple my friend. MONEY!!!
They did not have enough of the raws to supply 3 companies anyway but. I paid a big fee to not only have the exclusive on the product for a wile and be the first to put my product out on the market and the ability to claim I was the first. But I also Sort of blocked there own company from coming out with it because I paid for the exclusivity of it in different ways ( which is in my contract). Not going to lie if I was able to block Iforce ( no offense guys) I would have. But for now My self and Iforce will be the only companies to have prolensis for a wile. How long we shale see when it comes time to reup my contact. :147:

 

[Blergs]

Ever get some dank weed grown in Jamaica?
Then some swag As$ weed grown in some dudes back yard?

Big difference. Just saying is all :afro:

yes to both
:bling:

 

[JudgementDay]

I hear aps is using "Hi-Tech Pharmaceuticals"
to make there new bulbine/fadoga product.
If this is true this worries me a bit from things i have read over time. for eg here are a few links that are a MUST read:
http://www.fda.gov/Food/GuidanceComplianceRegulatoryInformation/ComplianceEnforcement/ucm081856.htm
http://www.fda.gov/Safety/MedWatch/SafetyInformation/SafetyAlertsforHumanMedicalProducts/ucm168017.htm
http://google2.fda.gov/search?q="Hi-Tech+Pharmaceuticals+"&client=FDAgov&site=FDAgov&lr=&proxystylesheet=FDAgov&output=xml_no_dtd&getfields

juust worries me is all and people should know. :-(

Does it concern you that Hi-Tech, manufactures most of I-forces products (including tropinol)? because they most definitely do manufacture almost all of I-forces products.

Other companies that have had a great deal of products manufactured by them are BSN, NUTREX, VPX, DORIAN YATES just to name a few. It is almost guaranteed that you have loved a product that they manufactured, as a great deal of the industries top companies have used them.

They are exceptional manufacturers and what they have done with their own past products has nothing to do with how they manufacture anyone elses.

 

[JudoJosh]

I think too much emphasis is put on these "Scientific reports" personally... I dont understand most of, if not all of most processes from extraction to cultivation. Yes they will impact the supplement such as where its grown but I honestly dont care about all the "Science studies" done on how it effects performance or muscle growth. To me personally scientific studies hold little weight on my decision on weather I am going to try something or not. A study can be swayed or interpeted many different ways. There are TONS of variables and with just about anything you can find a study that will show results that are 100 degress opposite of said study. Point is, everyone is different and there is no real way of determining on weather or not a certain herb or extract or supplement will have any effects on you positive or negative. Prime is the perfect example here.. there are many people on these boards that swear by Prime and then there is some that say it doesnt do anything for them. Now does the fact that it may not help one person effect the people who love it? I do care about my body and what goes in it, but the discussion here doesnt seem to be weather or not the product is safe but if it is effective and for that I say you wont know till you try it. I have so far tried 5 products from APS and have been more than pleased with how they effected me so I will try out their bulbine product. Will it work for me? I dunno, but the fact that some competiting company is coming on the board to discredit the product before it is even released doesnt effect my decision to buy it at all. If anything it makes me want to try it even MORE to see if who is right in this debate. Remember all publicity is good publicity right?

Point is no matter what a study might say the only way to know how it will effect you is to try it. And lets face it the amount of money we spend on supplements for some people is insane while other may be a little more reserved when making purchasing decisions but when you look at the big picture, over your lifetime to spend even $100 on something to try it out and see if it helps you in your goals is what? Maybe 1% of your lifetime income???? Is it really that big of a deal to try it? Hell to try it out you dont even have to buy it, JudgementDay is taking logging apps so you can try it out for FREE so what is really wasted here for you?

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/company-promotions/168341-aps-nutrition-hits.html

If you dont think it will work then submit an app and give it a whirl.. what do you have to loose? There are 2 possible outcomes to this.. 1. APS bulbine product is realsed and does what it claims it will do and it will stand on its own and the company will continue to grow or 2. It will be released and not do what they claim it will and which case it will most likely be discontinued. So what does sitting here arguing going to accomplish?

 

[SynergyIre]

Does it concern you that Hi-Tech, manufactures most of I-forces products (including tropinol)? because they most definitely do manufacture almost all of I-forces products.

Other companies that have had a great deal of products manufactured by them are BSN, NUTREX, VPX, DORIAN YATES just to name a few. It is almost guaranteed that you have loved a product that they manufactured, as a great deal of the industries top companies have used them.

They are exceptional manufacturers and what they have done with their own past products has nothing to do with how they manufacture anyone elses.

So is that a 'yes we do use Hi-Tech Pharmaceuticals' ?

 

[thebigt]

So is that a 'yes we do use Hi-Tech Pharmaceuticals' ?

lol-does it matter?


if you look at the results people are getting from their product's it clear that aps know's what they are doing.


results baby, results are what matter.:aargh:


i can't believe the effort some are making to put down a product that hasn't even been released yet-maybe they are worried that testalensis will be all that and then some, why else put in all this effort, lol.

makes me want to try it that much more!!!!!!

 

[southpaw23]

lol-does it matter?


if you look at the results people are getting from their product's it clear that aps know's what they are doing.


results baby, results are what matter.:aargh:


i can't believe the effort some are making to put down a product that hasn't even been released yet-maybe they are worried that testalensis will be all that and then some, why else put in all this effort, lol.

makes me want to try it that much more!!!!!!

Agree 100%. Vaughn and NTMB have both gone out of their way to discredit a product that hasn't even hit the market yet, and from what I can gather the so called home runs that Tropinol and Phytoserms were purported to be, have turned out to be more or less...a bunt.

 

[beni182]

Ever get some dank weed grown in Jamaica?
Then some swag As$ weed grown in some dudes back yard?

Big difference. Just saying is all :afro:

I get your point on location.....but in that circumstance, the location actually changes the chemical composition and potency of the active ingredients. Now if it were standardized to contain 10% this or that of active material/chemical you wanted, then why does it matter? In the end, results/bloods for test boosters are that matters.

 

[JudoJosh]

lol-does it matter?


if you look at the results people are getting from their product's it clear that aps know's what they are doing.


results baby, results are what matter.:aargh:


i can't believe the effort some are making to put down a product that hasn't even been released yet-maybe they are worried that testalensis will be all that and then some, why else put in all this effort, lol.

makes me want to try it that much more!!!!!!

X2... Like i said earlier.. All publicity is good publicity

 

[SynergyIre]

lol-does it matter?

lol, not really, just thought his answer was a really round about way of saying yes haha.

I think there was some interesting points brought up, based on how suppressive NB has been at too high a dose. Glad Sldge chimed in, which I think clears up who got NB from where.

The compound that iForce and RS have are different to APS. I felt kinda turned off with how APS have worded their advertising, but sure I'll keep and eye on the logs and see what happens.

Just think this has needlessly turned into a pissing match. Thankful I pushed past the drama to pick up some useful information.

 

[southpaw23]

lol, not really, just thought his answer was a really round about way of saying yes haha.

I think there was some interesting points brought up, based on how suppressive NB has been at too high a dose. Glad Sldge chimed in, which I think clears up who got NB from where.

The compound that iForce and RI have are different to APS. I felt kinda turned off with how APS have worded their advertising, but sure I'll keep and eye on the logs and see what happens.

Just think this has needlessly turned into a pissing match. Thankful I pushed past the drama to pick up some useful information.

Vaugh himself stated earlier that they have no idea what to test/extract for with respect to NB. They have no idea what the active component is. If APS has come across research which leads them to believe that they can isolate the active component, then wait until that research is released and then judge accordingly. That would be the prudent thing to do in this case.

 

[thebigt]

lol, not really, just thought his answer was a really round about way of saying yes haha.

I think there was some interesting points brought up, based on how suppressive NB has been at too high a dose. Glad Sldge chimed in, which I think clears up who got NB from where.

The compound that iForce and RI have are different to APS. I felt kinda turned off with how APS have worded their advertising, but sure I'll keep and eye on the logs and see what happens.

Just think this has needlessly turned into a pissing match. Thankful I pushed past the drama to pick up some useful information.

i appreciate you keeping an open mind. after some logs are up this should be a much more interesting debate, as of now it's all speculation. it seems several companies and more than a few individuals have quite a lot riding on the outcome of the APS product!!!!

i am very excited for testalensis to be released.

 

[Sldge]

I'm guessing you ment to say he doesn't work for the company, but to say AR isn't on the Prolensis Payrol is BS.

Actually he isnt.

I may have missed something. If you are involved with ProLensis and it is effective, why don't DS have a bulbine natalensis product out?

We had planned on using it in the new Activate Xtreme formula but when that formula was ready to go to production there wasnt enough bulbine material for us to use it. As I said in my earlier post, we didnt get more then a kilo of finished raws until very late summer. We couldnt wait any longer and had 3 new test boosting ingredients that we were able to use, pZole was one of them, Bryonnia and Bulbine. The Bulbine was ready so we went with those 2. As a company DS tries not to reform products very often so that people dont feel as though they are missing out on anything and rushed into busying something. Plus the blood work on Activate Xtreme was so good there was no reason to change it. Thats why DS doesnt have a product with ProLensis in it.

Why is this whole trademark thing thrown around? Here is the trademark database search engine. This is a database of all trademarks out there. Now search in there for ProLensis. Just so you all know this isn't just BS, search for ForsLean

http://tess2.uspto.gov/

The results are that there is no such trademark. Shoot, I can go register the trademark now and sue everyone using it.

I tried finding Sports Nutrition Research as well and there are no filings for a Form D as well for this, so not incorporated, LLCed, or anything. I even used LexisNexus to find any filings for such a company and am coming up empty.

So while I believe your bulbine probably works, I believe the whole ProLensis racket was started to discredit other companies like this thread is sporting.

You do not need to apply for a trademark with the USPTO to have the trademark. You can apply or use it in the market place or both. It was used in the market place first by us, then we filed. Marks arent put on USPTO overnight, they take time.

If you filed for it and tried to sue anyone, our use of the mark in the market place would pre date anything you have. I have actually had this happen where we filed for a TM that was not registered and we lost the mark because a company had used it in the market place prior to us, even though they didnt file with the USPTO.

Sports Nutrition Research was incorporated using Legal Zoom. I have no idea how Legal Zoom updates databases etc.

It wasnt started to discredit anyone and I specifically said in my post that wasnt the point of the post. It was created because at the time we were the only ones who had actual Bulbine Natalensis which is from a specific region in SA and we had blood work done on this specific extract. It was differentiate our extract from any future people bringing one out.

I dont have any clue about anyone else material because Ive only tested ours and a few other raw material suppliers material. The other suppliers didnt match ours. Doesnt mean it would or wouldnt work but I know ours does cause we got blood work on it.

It doesnt matter to me one way or another who else has what extract. Im concerned with ProLensis. I was trying to give people a back ground about what it actually took to get enough material for it to be used in products. To let people know that Natalensis grows in a specific region which is verified in scientific literature.

 

[Sldge]

Still awaiting a response....

I was hoping not to have to read all 7 pages of the thread but I believe these were the questions you asked:

What I find the most intriguing........

1. Sport Nutrition Research LTD is the company that makes ProlensisTM.

-Correct.

2. Matt Cahill is the principal of Sport Nutrition Research LTD.

- Yes I also work for SNR which I believe I said in my first post. Its a consulting company that doesnt produce any products.

3. Both Driven Sports (DS) and Sport Nutrition Research LTD are located in Franklin Square, NY.

-Correct.


My question is....

1. Why did DS not come out with a ProlensisTM product themselves?

I answered this in an earlier post.

2. What is Matt Cahill's and Anthony Roberts relationship?

We happen to have written for the same magazine in South Africa as well as being regulars on Super Human Radio. We have a lot of the same friends in this industry in common and because of that we know each other.

 

[SynergyIre]

Actually he isnt.

We had planned on using it in the new Activate Xtreme formula but when that formula was ready to go to production there wasnt enough bulbine material for us to use it. As I said in my earlier post, we didnt get more then a kilo of finished raws until very late summer. We couldnt wait any longer and had 3 new test boosting ingredients that we were able to use, pZole was one of them, Bryonnia and Bulbine. The Bulbine was ready so we went with those 2. As a company DS tries not to reform products very often so that people dont feel as though they are missing out on anything and rushed into busying something. Plus the blood work on Activate Xtreme was so good there was no reason to change it. Thats why DS doesnt have a product with ProLensis in it.
.

Oh what could have been! That would have been great . Hopefully there will be a bulbine product is in DS's future.

 

[Sldge]

Oh what could have been! That would have been great . Hopefully there will be a bulbine product is in DS's future.

To me it seems pretty easy, buy either IForces or RS bulbine product and stack it with ACTX. Thats what I plan on doing. There will also be a few more companies coming out with products that will also contain ProLensis relatively soon. There should be a very good group to choose from.

 

[SynergyIre]

To me it seems pretty easy, buy either IForces or RS bulbine product and stack it with ACTX. Thats what I plan on doing. There will also be a few more companies coming out with products that will also contain ProLensis relatively soon. There should be a very good group to choose from.

Actually just started on Tropinol after a 4 week AX and Triazole . Considering running 2 bottles of Tropinol so was really thinking about doing just that. Well that or 2-3 caps of Triazole.

 

[BBB]

I ran six weeks of Triazole+Activate XT and had very good results. I am currently into week three of Tropinol and I can't say that I've noticed much thus far. BN is difficult to use. Too much is bad too little is bad. You have to find your sweet spot. I'm still looking.

 

[VaughnTrue]

I ran six weeks of Triazole+Activate XT and had very good results. I am currently into week three of Tropinol and I can't say that I've noticed much thus far. BN is difficult to use. Too much is bad too little is bad. You have to find your sweet spot. I'm still looking.

have you tried 3/day yet?

 

[BBB]

I started with 3/day for the first week and then dropped back to 2/day during the second week. I'm now in my third week and have gone back to 3/day. I haven't noticed much. I was hopping to gain a few lbs but I have actually lost 2 lbs on a maintenance diet. On a positive note, I have been sleeping through the night without getting up to go to the bath room. That hasn't happen for years. Apparently prostate friendly. I am also experimenting with creatine nitrate preworkout. I've only been using CN for a couple of days but have been experiencing great pumps.

 

[thebigt]

I started with 3/day for the first week and then dropped back to 2/day during the second week. I'm now in my third week and have gone back to 3/day. I haven't noticed much. I was hopping to gain a few lbs but I have actually lost 2 lbs on a maintenance diet. On a positive note, I have been sleeping through the night without getting up to go to the bath room. That hasn't happen for years. Apparently prostate friendly. I am also experimenting with creatine nitrate preworkout. I've only been using CN for a couple of days but have been experiencing great pumps.

the word is nutra is set to carry APS products. creatine nitrate and mesomorph are great products-i look for them to make the nutraplanet best seller list the 1st week.

 

[needtogetmuscle]

Agree 100%. Vaughn and NTMB have both gone out of their way to discredit a product that hasn't even hit the market yet, and from what I can gather the so called home runs that Tropinol and Phytoserms were purported to be, have turned out to be more or less...a bunt.

wait a second here!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why you tossing me into this... I would like for you to point to one single instance I have done anything like this. Dont toss me into a bunch I do not belong in I been nothing but respectful and have not said one negative thing about anyone here. I put my part of the story into the hat but not once said bad things about anyone. SO I will thank you my friend not to lump me into any negative campaigning bunch please. Thank you :friday:

 

[needtogetmuscle]

I get your point on location.....but in that circumstance, the location actually changes the chemical composition and potency of the active ingredients. Now if it were standardized to contain 10% this or that of active material/chemical you wanted, then why does it matter? In the end, results/bloods for test boosters are that matters.

I just felt like talking about some dank weed :afro:

 

[DAdams91982]

wait a second here!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why you tossing me into this... I would like for you to point to one single instance I have done anything like this. Dont toss me into a bunch I do not belong in I been nothing but respectful and have not said one negative thing about anyone here. I put my part of the story into the hat but not once said bad things about anyone. SO I will thank you my friend not to lump me into any negative campaigning bunch please. Thank you :friday:

You have been swinging nuts left an right.

Wanna tell us again about your first connection? Then post up 30 links to other boards against forum rules?