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Primordial Performance raided by FDA

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LiveToLift said:
Insane, I do believe things will be changing real fast around the game.
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Agreed

- Valdez
 
Patuba said:
It doesn't matter if it is legal or not. They will raid, take the product then change the law to make them illegal and then charge them. Innocent till proven guilty and something having to be illegal before getting arrested no longer exists.
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You are wrong there. Innocent until proven guilty does exist and it takes a considerable amount of time to make something illegal. Why do you think bath salts and salvia are still legal? Bath salts are killing people yet you can still buy it anywhere. The legal system MUST go by the books this is non negotiable
 
JD261985 said:
You are wrong there. Innocent until proven guilty does exist and it takes a considerable amount of time to make something illegal. Why do you think bath salts and salvia are still legal? Bath salts are killing people yet you can still buy it anywhere. The legal system MUST go by the books this is non negotiable
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The FDA can strangle any supplement company they want. They can come in, take all of their product, and put up a long winded court battle after 4 years of investigation. This strangles a company because they are generating no income, have no product to sell, have all of their capital that was in inventory inaccessible, and eventually the company runs out of energy or money, and the FDA has to prove nothing. This is what is meant by guilty until proven innocent.
 
JD261985 said:
You are wrong there. Innocent until proven guilty does exist and it takes a considerable amount of time to make something illegal. Why do you think bath salts and salvia are still legal? Bath salts are killing people yet you can still buy it anywhere. The legal system MUST go by the books this is non negotiable
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The FDA doesn't always play by the books and the government rewrites laws to fit their needs. Anyone thinking differently is just naive. Sorry for the name calling but true.
 
JD261985 said:
You are wrong there. Innocent until proven guilty does exist and it takes a considerable amount of time to make something illegal. Why do you think bath salts and salvia are still legal? Bath salts are killing people yet you can still buy it anywhere. The legal system MUST go by the books this is non negotiable
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Where do you live? The government does what they want plain and simple.

That raises another valid point tho, bath salts and salvia have been legal for years. These substances ARE killing people and instead of fighting that war, they go after PP for modified DHEA. Rx companies must be behind this...

- Valdez
 
Valdez said:
Where do you live? The government does what they want plain and simple.

That raises another valid point tho, bath salts and salvia have been legal for years. These substances ARE killing people and instead of fighting that war, they go after PP for modified DHEA. Rx companies must be behind this...

- Valdez
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They have passed numerous designer drug laws in recent years not unlike the ph/ds laws. Many states have also banned salvia. Bath Salts like ph/ds have been continually redesigned to circumvent laws passed. The two industries are not that different when it comes to the way they have evolved in response to legislation. The similarities end there of course.
 
I was merely trying to keep high hopes...I'm not naive. For the love of God if you knew me you wouldn't say that but I WANT TO BELIEVE (badly) that everything will be sorted out. I guess that's my final two cents on the issue
 
Guys relax the FDA did what they had to do so they can all get super jacked of pp products and go fight the Mexican drug cartel so lets ease up on them :p
 
Valdez said:
Where do you live? The government does what they want plain and simple.

That raises another valid point tho, bath salts and salvia have been legal for years. These substances ARE killing people and instead of fighting that war, they go after PP for modified DHEA. Rx companies must be behind this...

- Valdez
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Wow good point...the RX companies paying the FDA to raid them makes sense...RX companies want to make money from androgel 1.62 and other trt products they understand there is money to be made in testosterone
 
Damn... And I thought I was having a $hitty month.

Sorry does not describe how I feel for the folks at PP. I'm rather speechless that, in a country that touts innovation, public/private rights and freedoms, and holds it's own constitution as a living document that such an act has happened. Then again, look at all the contradictions that have occurred since it's inception.

Hope things turn around for everyone quickly. Kind of feeling like I've lost a trustworthy friend after reading all this.
 
Patuba said:
It doesn't matter if it is legal or not. They will raid, take the product then change the law to make them illegal and then charge them. Innocent till proven guilty and something having to be illegal before getting arrested no longer exists.
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They can't do that
 
I always thought it was guilty til proven innocent.
Hence the initial raid.
 
This makes me sad. I just recently discovered PP and fell in love with them. I was just about to order a supply of dermatherm. Might as well order a shirt so I can keep the memory of this great company alive.
 
What is among the most disconcerting things about this, for me, is that I specifically remember Eric, upon launch of the AndroSeries, boldly declaring, "We'll have our position papers ready" and fight them head on. I'm partially paraphrasing, but I thought that with the introduction of the AndroSeries came a fervor for defending its DSHEA compliance.

I realize this is no easy feat. You're dealing with runaway, bureaucratic, executive-level agencies that "enforce policy," as opposed to following laws. Policy can be stretched beyond the scope of the Constitution and the guarantees of due process.

I am intrigued by Patrick Arnold's statement that, "They can't do that." I'd love to hear more about why they can't as this whole thing is intriguing to me, but still not unexpected.

I hypothesized that it was the blatant, honest marketing of the products that got them into a pickle. Liberal use of the word "steroids," comparison to injectable testosterone and equivalency calculations and claims that were far too specific likely exacerbated this action. I'm not so sure someone didn't rat on them, either.

The absence of a cease and desist letter is troubling to me as well. Though I am no attorney, this whole process seems to have run afoul of FDA's standard practices.

What a mess. It truly sinks my heart to think about.
 
Prescription drug companies are some of the biggest lobbyists in Washington, this is no coincidence, founding fathers are rolling their graves, fuock big govt
 
HereToStudy said:
I appreciate you finding this for me. I made the post while commuting. This hasn't been taken well by me, the guys I worked with were pretty much family to me, and the passion Eric had on the back end to make this company something fantastic is something that will inspire me for years to come. With my head being in a million places right now, I didn't even think about if my post was going to be understood or not.
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Feeling similar bud...

I would like to thank you guys for all of the support
 
Freepress said:
What is among the most disconcerting things about this, for me, is that I specifically remember Eric, upon launch of the AndroSeries, boldly declaring, "We'll have our position papers ready" and fight them head on. I'm partially paraphrasing, but I thought that with the introduction of the AndroSeries came a fervor for defending its DSHEA compliance.

I realize this is no easy feat. You're dealing with runaway, bureaucratic, executive-level agencies that "enforce policy," as opposed to following laws. Policy can be stretched beyond the scope of the Constitution and the guarantees of due process.

I am intrigued by Patrick Arnold's statement that, "They can't do that." I'd love to hear more about why they can't as this whole thing is intriguing to me, but still not unexpected.

I hypothesized that it was the blatant, honest marketing of the products that got them into a pickle. Liberal use of the word "steroids," comparison to injectable testosterone and equivalency calculations and claims that were far too specific likely exacerbated this action. I'm not so sure someone didn't rat on them, either.

The absence of a cease and desist letter is troubling to me as well. Though I am no attorney, this whole process seems to have run afoul of FDA's standard practices.

What a mess. It truly sinks my heart to think about.
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there are many in this industry that think they know the law. they read it and think they understand it and then they act in whatever way. But if you are not an attorney you dont understand the law.

companies need to retain attorneys. because the legal system is an entity whose players are attorneys. us non attorney people have no skin in there game. You are a fool if you think u understand the law and are not an attorney.

When **** goes down it is way way beyond us regular folk to cope with. I try telling peeps this all the time. Get a good attorney. Protect urself
 
Valdez said:
Extremely unfortunate turn of events... PP is a solid company and this is quite absurd.

Tons and tons of cocaine, heroin etc getting moved everyday from Mexico and the gov is spending 100's of thousands of dollars investing in a case against a DSHEA compliant supplement. Think of all the man hours doing surveillance, putting together raid teams, high priced lawyers, internet monitoring and so on for months possibly a year collecting "evidence".

The government originally was intended to be ran by the people and now?

- Valdez
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pay no attention to the man behind the curtain! lol
 
Patrick Arnold said:
there are many in this industry that think they know the law. they read it and think they understand it and then they act in whatever way. But if you are not an attorney you dont understand the law.

companies need to retain attorneys. because the legal system is an entity whose players are attorneys. us non attorney people have no skin in there game. You are a fool if you think u understand the law and are not an attorney.

When **** goes down it is way way beyond us regular folk to cope with. I try telling peeps this all the time. Get a good attorney. Protect urself
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Especially when so much of law is "interperatation of the law". There are a lot of grey areas that just can't be negotiated by the lay man. Many laws are designed as perposely vague so as to allow the court cases that follow to flesh out the law in real life with prescedent (or so it would appear).
 
Patrick Arnold said:
there are many in this industry that think they know the law. they read it and think they understand it and then they act in whatever way. But if you are not an attorney you dont understand the law.

companies need to retain attorneys. because the legal system is an entity whose players are attorneys. us non attorney people have no skin in there game. You are a fool if you think u understand the law and are not an attorney.

When **** goes down it is way way beyond us regular folk to cope with. I try telling peeps this all the time. Get a good attorney. Protect urself
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I agree with you wholeheartedly. I figured that Eric had a good attorney on prepay and ready to spring into action. Maybe he did, hell, and this thing is just too big to fight. Either way, it sucks and leaves us all to question the future of this industry.
 
cswalczakny said:
Especially when so much of law is "interperatation of the law". There are a lot of grey areas that just can't be negotiated by the lay man. Many laws are designed as perposely vague so as to allow the court cases that follow to flesh out the law in real life with prescedent (or so it would appear).
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and deals are made by attorneys making deals with attorneys.

attorneys know one another. they have cases over the years where they have to confront one another. its totally like politics. tit for tat.

they get together and they bargain. if you have a good attorney with pull and influence he will get u a deal.

people that think that we have an objective system that is magically dictated by the "laws" live in a fairyland. Laws are amibiguous. And the legal system is subjective
 
Freepress said:
I agree with you wholeheartedly. I figured that Eric had a good attorney on prepay and ready to spring into action. Maybe he did, hell, and this thing is just too big to fight. Either way, it sucks and leaves us all to question the future of this industry.
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many in this industry think they dont need an attorney on hand.

and when they realize they did, its often too late
 
Pat,in your opinion,do you feel that PP was pushing the legal limits with the products they were producing? To me they seemed rather mild compared to a lot of other products. Or was this more of a "Go after a big fish" example?
 
I really liked the basic products they had. They used to have great deals on CLA, Creatine, and other products. Maybe PP can change focus to more basic supplements and away from hormonal stuff. Good luck guys. Hope everything turns out ok.
 
According to androfactory primordial performance is finished. What do you guys think about that statement? They also say that primordial performance and androfactory were at one time the same company before the two owners split and went there seperate ways
 
AZMIDLYF said:
Pat,in your opinion,do you feel that PP was pushing the legal limits with the products they were producing? To me they seemed rather mild compared to a lot of other products. Or was this more of a "Go after a big fish" example?
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marketing was the issue i am sure
 
JD261985 said:
According to androfactory primordial performance is finished. What do you guys think about that statement? They also say that primordial performance and androfactory were at one time the same company before the two owners split and went there seperate ways
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i dunno who the hell these andro factory people are

i do know that there was this venus chick that made it seem like i was promoting there stuff a while ago on facebook. i objected and she made it seem like an honest mistake

now i get this weird message today apologizing about something the supposedly just did to me. and i dunno what the hell they are talkiing about

if there is stupid crap going on i dont want any part of it
 
I assumed PP was finished by them saying they were selling out remaining stock and couldn't afford to take on the FDA. Obviously I'm hoping that is not the case, but according to earlier posts I don't see how one could not come to that conclusion.
 
Geoforce said:
I assumed PP was finished by them saying they were selling out remaining stock and couldn't afford to take on the FDA. Obviously I'm hoping that is not the case, but according to earlier posts I don't see how one could not come to that conclusion.
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they all eventually come back


under a different incarnation
 
JD261985 said:
According to androfactory primordial performance is finished. What do you guys think about that statement? They also say that primordial performance and androfactory were at one time the same company before the two owners split and went there seperate ways
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Eric will dissolve PP and start up another- no reason to fight a losing battle w/ PP when he can just start fresh
 
Fda and big pharma are pretty much the same ppl...look at all the lateral hires of executive positions from either side. It's a sad time in history.
 
ponysteak said:
Fda and big pharma are pretty much the same ppl...look at all the lateral hires of executive positions from either side. It's a sad time in history.
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Go back in time. FDA and big pharma certainly are one in the same. Look up the history of the FDA and see how it all began and why. Believe me consumers interests and safety were hardly a concern and they still aren't a concern. I swear they make little busts like the one on primordial performance and every ignorant concerned citizen gives them a pat on the back lol. Makes it look like they're doing something for the people. Yea ****ing right
 
HereToStudy said:
Ours were sold as cosmetics, which is why there wasn't the same ingredient label you see on dietary supplements.
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HereToStudy said:
I used those in my bath, if you didn't you missed out.

I don't know what you are trying to prove with these comments. I can state at this point with 100% certainty it had nothing to do with the transdermal gels. So we can all keep making guesses as if we know what happened, or we can wait things out.

I am not going to provide any information, but I am under impression the company will at some point in the near future.
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I'll try and expaling it another way-
Just like the guy that gets caught selling cocaine that is actually sugar on the street corner. He doesnt get charged with intent to distribute sugar, he get charged with intent to distribute cocaine;).
 
mw1 said:
I'll try and expaling it another way-
Just like the guy that gets caught selling cocaine that is actually sugar on the street corner. He doesnt get charged with intent to distribute sugar, he get charged with intent to distribute cocaine;).
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No he doesn't lol he gets charged with something completely different. Something much more lenient. It has to be cocaine in order to get charged with it
 
mw1 said:
I'll try and expaling it another way-
Just like the guy that gets caught selling cocaine that is actually sugar on the street corner. He doesnt get charged with intent to distribute sugar, he get charged with intent to distribute cocaine;).
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I will try and explain myself in a different way-

If a guy were to punch you in the face for being a snide smart ass, the news wouldn't report that he also happens to enjoy pot. The focus would be on the act they pursued him over. ;)

So why focus on the transdermals so much?
 
PP you guys are seriously the best. I honestly never met a more genuine company. When I first got into the hormone fame they actually advised I don't until I've plateaued. That small bit of advice speaks a lot about a company who is invested in your well being.

I am extremely grateful that I had the chance to give some of their products a try, including the new v3 Androlean.

Good luck to all PP reps and employees I am sure you guys will be just fine. PP will live forever in all of the gains we have made using their products.
 
Shocking. And a sad day for all :/

Never had a chance to run any of these products I figured they'd always be around for their legality and safety.

Thoughts out to all reps and especially Eric.

Tides are turning, I feel like the FDA might just go on a raiding spree to force other companies to fold as well.
 
JD261985 said:
Go back in time. FDA and big pharma certainly are one in the same. Look up the history of the FDA and see how it all began and why. Believe me consumers interests and safety were hardly a concern and they still aren't a concern. I swear they make little busts like the one on primordial performance and every ignorant concerned citizen gives them a pat on the back lol. Makes it look like they're doing something for the people. Yea ****ing right
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jeff novitizky is not out for big pharm

he is out for usada'

u peeps are dumb
 
mw1 said:
I'll try and expaling it another way-
Just like the guy that gets caught selling cocaine that is actually sugar on the street corner. He doesnt get charged with intent to distribute sugar, he get charged with intent to distribute cocaine;).
Click to expand...


yep, law works that way
 
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