AgreedInsane, I do believe things will be changing real fast around the game.
- Valdez
AgreedInsane, I do believe things will be changing real fast around the game.
You are wrong there. Innocent until proven guilty does exist and it takes a considerable amount of time to make something illegal. Why do you think bath salts and salvia are still legal? Bath salts are killing people yet you can still buy it anywhere. The legal system MUST go by the books this is non negotiableIt doesn't matter if it is legal or not. They will raid, take the product then change the law to make them illegal and then charge them. Innocent till proven guilty and something having to be illegal before getting arrested no longer exists.
The FDA can strangle any supplement company they want. They can come in, take all of their product, and put up a long winded court battle after 4 years of investigation. This strangles a company because they are generating no income, have no product to sell, have all of their capital that was in inventory inaccessible, and eventually the company runs out of energy or money, and the FDA has to prove nothing. This is what is meant by guilty until proven innocent.You are wrong there. Innocent until proven guilty does exist and it takes a considerable amount of time to make something illegal. Why do you think bath salts and salvia are still legal? Bath salts are killing people yet you can still buy it anywhere. The legal system MUST go by the books this is non negotiable
The FDA doesn't always play by the books and the government rewrites laws to fit their needs. Anyone thinking differently is just naive. Sorry for the name calling but true.You are wrong there. Innocent until proven guilty does exist and it takes a considerable amount of time to make something illegal. Why do you think bath salts and salvia are still legal? Bath salts are killing people yet you can still buy it anywhere. The legal system MUST go by the books this is non negotiable
Where do you live? The government does what they want plain and simple.You are wrong there. Innocent until proven guilty does exist and it takes a considerable amount of time to make something illegal. Why do you think bath salts and salvia are still legal? Bath salts are killing people yet you can still buy it anywhere. The legal system MUST go by the books this is non negotiable
They have passed numerous designer drug laws in recent years not unlike the ph/ds laws. Many states have also banned salvia. Bath Salts like ph/ds have been continually redesigned to circumvent laws passed. The two industries are not that different when it comes to the way they have evolved in response to legislation. The similarities end there of course.Where do you live? The government does what they want plain and simple.
That raises another valid point tho, bath salts and salvia have been legal for years. These substances ARE killing people and instead of fighting that war, they go after PP for modified DHEA. Rx companies must be behind this...
- Valdez
Wow good point...the RX companies paying the FDA to raid them makes sense...RX companies want to make money from androgel 1.62 and other trt products they understand there is money to be made in testosteroneWhere do you live? The government does what they want plain and simple.
That raises another valid point tho, bath salts and salvia have been legal for years. These substances ARE killing people and instead of fighting that war, they go after PP for modified DHEA. Rx companies must be behind this...
- Valdez
They can't do thatIt doesn't matter if it is legal or not. They will raid, take the product then change the law to make them illegal and then charge them. Innocent till proven guilty and something having to be illegal before getting arrested no longer exists.
I appreciate the kind words, and will still be around.Best of luck HereToStudy. A great person in all respects, stay with us!
Feeling similar bud...I appreciate you finding this for me. I made the post while commuting. This hasn't been taken well by me, the guys I worked with were pretty much family to me, and the passion Eric had on the back end to make this company something fantastic is something that will inspire me for years to come. With my head being in a million places right now, I didn't even think about if my post was going to be understood or not.
there are many in this industry that think they know the law. they read it and think they understand it and then they act in whatever way. But if you are not an attorney you dont understand the law.What is among the most disconcerting things about this, for me, is that I specifically remember Eric, upon launch of the AndroSeries, boldly declaring, "We'll have our position papers ready" and fight them head on. I'm partially paraphrasing, but I thought that with the introduction of the AndroSeries came a fervor for defending its DSHEA compliance.
I realize this is no easy feat. You're dealing with runaway, bureaucratic, executive-level agencies that "enforce policy," as opposed to following laws. Policy can be stretched beyond the scope of the Constitution and the guarantees of due process.
I am intrigued by Patrick Arnold's statement that, "They can't do that." I'd love to hear more about why they can't as this whole thing is intriguing to me, but still not unexpected.
I hypothesized that it was the blatant, honest marketing of the products that got them into a pickle. Liberal use of the word "steroids," comparison to injectable testosterone and equivalency calculations and claims that were far too specific likely exacerbated this action. I'm not so sure someone didn't rat on them, either.
The absence of a cease and desist letter is troubling to me as well. Though I am no attorney, this whole process seems to have run afoul of FDA's standard practices.
What a mess. It truly sinks my heart to think about.
pay no attention to the man behind the curtain! lolExtremely unfortunate turn of events... PP is a solid company and this is quite absurd.
Tons and tons of cocaine, heroin etc getting moved everyday from Mexico and the gov is spending 100's of thousands of dollars investing in a case against a DSHEA compliant supplement. Think of all the man hours doing surveillance, putting together raid teams, high priced lawyers, internet monitoring and so on for months possibly a year collecting "evidence".
The government originally was intended to be ran by the people and now?
- Valdez
Especially when so much of law is "interperatation of the law". There are a lot of grey areas that just can't be negotiated by the lay man. Many laws are designed as perposely vague so as to allow the court cases that follow to flesh out the law in real life with prescedent (or so it would appear).there are many in this industry that think they know the law. they read it and think they understand it and then they act in whatever way. But if you are not an attorney you dont understand the law.
companies need to retain attorneys. because the legal system is an entity whose players are attorneys. us non attorney people have no skin in there game. You are a fool if you think u understand the law and are not an attorney.
When **** goes down it is way way beyond us regular folk to cope with. I try telling peeps this all the time. Get a good attorney. Protect urself
I agree with you wholeheartedly. I figured that Eric had a good attorney on prepay and ready to spring into action. Maybe he did, hell, and this thing is just too big to fight. Either way, it sucks and leaves us all to question the future of this industry.there are many in this industry that think they know the law. they read it and think they understand it and then they act in whatever way. But if you are not an attorney you dont understand the law.
companies need to retain attorneys. because the legal system is an entity whose players are attorneys. us non attorney people have no skin in there game. You are a fool if you think u understand the law and are not an attorney.
When **** goes down it is way way beyond us regular folk to cope with. I try telling peeps this all the time. Get a good attorney. Protect urself
Prescription drug companies are some of the biggest lobbyists in Washington, this is no coincidence, founding fathers are rolling their graves, fuock big govt
Especially when so much of law is "interperatation of the law". There are a lot of grey areas that just can't be negotiated by the lay man. Many laws are designed as perposely vague so as to allow the court cases that follow to flesh out the law in real life with prescedent (or so it would appear).
X 100000drug companies have nothing to do with this
many in this industry think they dont need an attorney on hand.I agree with you wholeheartedly. I figured that Eric had a good attorney on prepay and ready to spring into action. Maybe he did, hell, and this thing is just too big to fight. Either way, it sucks and leaves us all to question the future of this industry.
marketing was the issue i am surePat,in your opinion,do you feel that PP was pushing the legal limits with the products they were producing? To me they seemed rather mild compared to a lot of other products. Or was this more of a "Go after a big fish" example?
According to androfactory primordial performance is finished. What do you guys think about that statement? They also say that primordial performance and androfactory were at one time the same company before the two owners split and went there seperate ways
they all eventually come backI assumed PP was finished by them saying they were selling out remaining stock and couldn't afford to take on the FDA. Obviously I'm hoping that is not the case, but according to earlier posts I don't see how one could not come to that conclusion.
Eric will dissolve PP and start up another- no reason to fight a losing battle w/ PP when he can just start freshAccording to androfactory primordial performance is finished. What do you guys think about that statement? They also say that primordial performance and androfactory were at one time the same company before the two owners split and went there seperate ways
Beat me to it but yes I'm sure that is already in the worksthey all eventually come back
under a different incarnation
Guys we are still selling our natural products such as EndoAmp, Phyto Test and yes Toco-8...What about Toco-8? Dammit.
Endo and Toco... the best products to ever grace PP's shelves!Guys we are still selling our natural products such as EndoAmp, Phyto Test and yes Toco-8...
Go back in time. FDA and big pharma certainly are one in the same. Look up the history of the FDA and see how it all began and why. Believe me consumers interests and safety were hardly a concern and they still aren't a concern. I swear they make little busts like the one on primordial performance and every ignorant concerned citizen gives them a pat on the back lol. Makes it look like they're doing something for the people. Yea ****ing rightFda and big pharma are pretty much the same ppl...look at all the lateral hires of executive positions from either side. It's a sad time in history.
Ours were sold as cosmetics, which is why there wasn't the same ingredient label you see on dietary supplements.
I'll try and expaling it another way-I used those in my bath, if you didn't you missed out.
I don't know what you are trying to prove with these comments. I can state at this point with 100% certainty it had nothing to do with the transdermal gels. So we can all keep making guesses as if we know what happened, or we can wait things out.
I am not going to provide any information, but I am under impression the company will at some point in the near future.
No he doesn't lol he gets charged with something completely different. Something much more lenient. It has to be cocaine in order to get charged with itI'll try and expaling it another way-
Just like the guy that gets caught selling cocaine that is actually sugar on the street corner. He doesnt get charged with intent to distribute sugar, he get charged with intent to distribute cocaine.
I will try and explain myself in a different way-I'll try and expaling it another way-
Just like the guy that gets caught selling cocaine that is actually sugar on the street corner. He doesnt get charged with intent to distribute sugar, he get charged with intent to distribute cocaine.
Wrong he will be charge with the intentNo he doesn't lol he gets charged with something completely different. Something much more lenient. It has to be cocaine in order to get charged with it
i believe he gets charged with intent to deceive or something along those linesWrong he will be charge with the intent
Fda and big pharma are pretty much the same ppl...look at all the lateral hires of executive positions from either side. It's a sad time in history.
Go back in time. FDA and big pharma certainly are one in the same. Look up the history of the FDA and see how it all began and why. Believe me consumers interests and safety were hardly a concern and they still aren't a concern. I swear they make little busts like the one on primordial performance and every ignorant concerned citizen gives them a pat on the back lol. Makes it look like they're doing something for the people. Yea ****ing right
I'll try and expaling it another way-
Just like the guy that gets caught selling cocaine that is actually sugar on the street corner. He doesnt get charged with intent to distribute sugar, he get charged with intent to distribute cocaine.