Kleen - Project 50: Under Construction

[Rocket3015]

We do get wiser with age !!

 

[gphagan1]

Just regular basketball shoes or you rocking Chuck's?


I haven't really messed with any insoles, I have tried a couple but they were painful to use at all. I did use the bearfoots for Deads this weekend and they were PERFECT!!!!

3/5/23 - Dead Lift / Back / Biceps

WU = Walk 1 mile with weighted chain = 44lbs - various grips, holds, carries and pump work throughout walk.


Dead Lifts - Double Overhand Grip until Mixed Grip Mentioned
WU = Sumo 135x10, 225x8, Conventional 225x5, 275x3
WS = 315x3, 355x3, 375x3, 395x3, 405x3, Mixed Grip 415x3, 415x3 w/ Versa Grips - I felt like I could have gone up another 20-30lbs but where my biceps tendon is reattached under the pec started to get a bit sensitive after the switch to mixed grip which put a lot of stress on the left biceps which was the underhand side. Swapped to Versa Grips and it felt a little better but I thought it was best to shut things down there. Right side brachialis still getting sore during work and requiring a bit of attention. Everything from 355 up was a Post Surgery PR in both weight and or reps.

Pull Ups 5, 5, 3 - stop and swap to light pull ups to save right brachialis some strain.

Supinated Grip Pull Downs - 90xRPE8, 90xRPE8, 90xRPE9, 90xRPE9

Wide Grip Partial Lat Pulldowns - 90xRPE8, 90xRPE8, 90xRPE9, 90xRPE9

IronTec Preacher Curl - 10lbs x failure x 3 sets - I created my own tension by flexing throughout the entire movement and flexed as hard as possible for 3 seconds at the top and a held a biceps stretch for 3 seconds flexing triceps at the bottom of every rep. I used my triceps to fight my biceps so at the end my triceps were almost as pumped as my biceps.

Barefoot Ursus Review - OMG!!! I love these things. After tying them up to be just a little snug my feet felt even more planted than being barefoot. I can't wait to do some squatting in these bad boys! Thanks for the recommendation @Hyde!

Still dealing with my Brachialis having some issues. Trying to figure out what to do and or avoid for this issue. I think the original issue started when I used the right arm with mixed grip underhand on right side. Still doing some stretching and finished the session up with about 5 minutes dedicated SMR for biceps and brachialis. For now outside of my main lifts doing things where I create most of my own tension and using lighter weights. DL's seem to be okay for them, but pushing elbow flexion where the brachialis is more involved lets me know there is still an issue.

Today is a Bench Session which will be done shortly at lunch then will finish off the hypertrophy side of things this evening. I am reading through a couple programs @SkRaw85 sent me to see which if any of them I think my body is up too right now.

Nice pulls…..that’s a good sign already hitting some good weight post surgery. Definitely smart move, like Rocket said, backing off a little when you felt that muscle twinge. I’m getting better at that myself. I’ve made some stupid mistakes pushing through injuries in the past, and learned too many lessons the hard way. Always better to listen to your body, and back off when needed.

 

[Dustin07]

Just regular basketball shoes or you rocking Chuck's?


I haven't really messed with any insoles, I have tried a couple but they were painful to use at all. I did use the bearfoots for Deads this weekend and they were PERFECT!!!!

3/5/23 - Dead Lift / Back / Biceps

WU = Walk 1 mile with weighted chain = 44lbs - various grips, holds, carries and pump work throughout walk.


Dead Lifts - Double Overhand Grip until Mixed Grip Mentioned
WU = Sumo 135x10, 225x8, Conventional 225x5, 275x3
WS = 315x3, 355x3, 375x3, 395x3, 405x3, Mixed Grip 415x3, 415x3 w/ Versa Grips - I felt like I could have gone up another 20-30lbs but where my biceps tendon is reattached under the pec started to get a bit sensitive after the switch to mixed grip which put a lot of stress on the left biceps which was the underhand side. Swapped to Versa Grips and it felt a little better but I thought it was best to shut things down there. Right side brachialis still getting sore during work and requiring a bit of attention. Everything from 355 up was a Post Surgery PR in both weight and or reps.

Pull Ups 5, 5, 3 - stop and swap to light pull ups to save right brachialis some strain.

Supinated Grip Pull Downs - 90xRPE8, 90xRPE8, 90xRPE9, 90xRPE9

Wide Grip Partial Lat Pulldowns - 90xRPE8, 90xRPE8, 90xRPE9, 90xRPE9

IronTec Preacher Curl - 10lbs x failure x 3 sets - I created my own tension by flexing throughout the entire movement and flexed as hard as possible for 3 seconds at the top and a held a biceps stretch for 3 seconds flexing triceps at the bottom of every rep. I used my triceps to fight my biceps so at the end my triceps were almost as pumped as my biceps.

Barefoot Ursus Review - OMG!!! I love these things. After tying them up to be just a little snug my feet felt even more planted than being barefoot. I can't wait to do some squatting in these bad boys! Thanks for the recommendation @Hyde!

Still dealing with my Brachialis having some issues. Trying to figure out what to do and or avoid for this issue. I think the original issue started when I used the right arm with mixed grip underhand on right side. Still doing some stretching and finished the session up with about 5 minutes dedicated SMR for biceps and brachialis. For now outside of my main lifts doing things where I create most of my own tension and using lighter weights. DL's seem to be okay for them, but pushing elbow flexion where the brachialis is more involved lets me know there is still an issue.

Today is a Bench Session which will be done shortly at lunch then will finish off the hypertrophy side of things this evening. I am reading through a couple programs @SkRaw85 sent me to see which if any of them I think my body is up too right now.

solid pulls!!

in regards to the shoes, years ago Mark Bell did a thing with Reebok and these were the result. I still have mine, they're probably ten years old and I think my ex got them for me for like $30 on clearance. I honestly love them for deads and they are in great shape cause that's the only time I wear them so less than once a week lol

 

[Hyde]

I’m really happy they were so awesome for you! I love pulling in them. @SkRaw85 is who took the chance and turned me onto them. I think they are good for squats too and I’ve done some squatting in them.

As an aside, saw Chris Duffin at the Ursus booth at the Arnold. He was deep in talking with some other expo-goers/fans so I didn’t try to stop and chat, but I thought it was so awesome that he is basically my size. I mean he doesn’t have some insane frame width or height, nothing freaky in proportion, just a regular average guy who refused to place limits on what he was capable of.

in regards to the shoes, years ago Mark Bell did a thing with Reebok and these were the result. I still have mine, they're probably ten years old and I think my ex got them for me for like $30 on clearance. I honestly love them for deads and they are in great shape cause that's the only time I wear them so less than once a week lol

View attachment 229919

The Reebok CrossFits were a great powerlifting shoe! No idea why they changed & discontinued them; they sold like hot cakes and worked well. Better than Chucks or other skateboard shoes for sure.

 

[Hyde]

And I’m glad the missus is doing better, and that Sage had a great birthday. My stepdaughter is 21 now and so much more mature now, night & day, but I remember the 18/19 timeframe - it’s just a rebellious developmental phase they have to grow through. They’re still kids but the world & new freedoms are getting thrust on them and they just have to figure it out. Careers, identity, everything!

 

[gphagan1]

solid pulls!!

in regards to the shoes, years ago Mark Bell did a thing with Reebok and these were the result. I still have mine, they're probably ten years old and I think my ex got them for me for like $30 on clearance. I honestly love them for deads and they are in great shape cause that's the only time I wear them so less than once a week lol

View attachment 229919

I have some old wrestling shoes, about 15 years old, that I use, that are very similar, and have always loved them. I really need to check out some of the newer ones, because those are getting wore out, but man I have got my money’s worth out of those.

 

[Dustin07]

My stepdaughter is 21 now and so much more mature now, night & day, but I remember the 18/19 timeframe - it’s just a rebellious developmental phase they have to grow through. They’re still kids but the world & new freedoms are getting thrust on them and they just have to figure it out. Careers, identity, everything!

amen to that. the real shitshow started at like age 18 on the dot in our house. but that coincided with lockdowns/covid and a loss of the stepdaugthers senior year. fast forward a couple years and all the sudden when they're making rent/paying bills and working jobs the drama/stress levels are lower.

I have some old wrestling shoes, about 15 years old, that I use, that are very similar, and have always loved them. I really need to check out some of the newer ones, because those are getting wore out, but man I have got my money’s worth out of those.

I'd say that the reeboks have just a tiny bit more cushion in than my old wrestling shoes but still feel flat and planted so they're kinda a happy medium for me. although that said, wrestling shoes have come a long ways and I noticed my sons wrestling shoes this year were a hell of a lot nicer than mine back in 1998 lol.

 

[MrKleen73]

solid pulls!!

in regards to the shoes, years ago Mark Bell did a thing with Reebok and these were the result. I still have mine, they're probably ten years old and I think my ex got them for me for like $30 on clearance. I honestly love them for deads and they are in great shape cause that's the only time I wear them so less than once a week lol

View attachment 229919

Nice, I still have an old pair of low top crossfits. They were great for deadlifts for sure!

I’m really happy they were so awesome for you! I love pulling in them. @SkRaw85 is who took the chance and turned me onto them. I think they are good for squats too and I’ve done some squatting in them.

As an aside, saw Chris Duffin at the Ursus booth at the Arnold. He was deep in talking with some other expo-goers/fans so I didn’t try to stop and chat, but I thought it was so awesome that he is basically my size. I mean he doesn’t have some insane frame width or height, nothing freaky in proportion, just a regular average guy who refused to place limits on what he was capable of.



The Reebok CrossFits were a great powerlifting shoe! No idea why they changed & discontinued them; they sold like hot cakes and worked well. Better than Chucks or other skateboard shoes for sure.

Agreed on the cross fits. Yeah Duffin is a beast! He has achieved some amazing things.

And I’m glad the missus is doing better, and that Sage had a great birthday. My stepdaughter is 21 now and so much more mature now, night & day, but I remember the 18/19 timeframe - it’s just a rebellious developmental phase they have to grow through. They’re still kids but the world & new freedoms are getting thrust on them and they just have to figure it out. Careers, identity, everything!

Yeah, that is where they are. I let them figure it out, and just try to guide as much as possible. I have already taught them what they need to know. I am not worried, I know what they are made of, and that they are good at their core. They are gonna be just fine, but it is a challenging time for sure. I wouldn't give it up for the world though.

I have some old wrestling shoes, about 15 years old, that I use, that are very similar, and have always loved them. I really need to check out some of the newer ones, because those are getting wore out, but man I have got my money’s worth out of those.

I used an old pair of wrestling shoes for years too. The barefoots are very similar except they have the benefit of the wide toe box so your feet can really spread out on the floor and give you a better base. If just using these for lifting they could easily last years and years.

==============================================================================

3/7/23 Bench + Accessories

WU = Clean Up Garage - Short Walk - RC Band Complex

Flat Barbell Bench - WU= Bar x15, 95x10, 135x5, 165x3, 185x3
WS = 205x3, 225x3, 235x3, 245x3, 255x3 - The 255 was a little bit of a grinder. I think I could have gone to 260-265 with a spot but this was as high as I was willing to go solo. I am VERY HAPPY with 255x3 at 7 months post surgery.

IronTec Iso-lateral Reverse Grip Shoulder Press - 45xRPE8, 55xRPE8, 55xRPE9, 55xRPE9 - I went to do regular barbell shoulder press and my shoulder just didn't feel right. So I opted for something that felt safer.

IronTec Iso-lateral Chest Press - 70xRPE9, 70xRPE9, 70xRPE9, 70xRPE9 - Kept things at a slightly higher rep range just getting in that volume.

Rope Triceps Extensions - 70xRPE9, 70xRPE9, 70xFail

Like I mentioned I was very happy with hitting 255x3 on bench. Going to keep things moving.

Also, as much as I am excited to try Conjugate Method, I think I might need to keep working at slightly submaximal levels for a little longer increasing collagen and what not before maxing out on a regular basis. I feel more comfortable going to an RPE9 than pushing for an RPE10 not having full confidence in my joints and connective tissue just yet.

 

[Dustin07]

Also, as much as I am excited to try Conjugate Method, I think I might need to keep working at slightly submaximal levels for a little longer increasing collagen and what not before maxing out on a regular basis. I feel more comfortable going to an RPE9 than pushing for an RPE10 not having full confidence in my joints and connective tissue just yet.

a. your sudden rebuild is embarrassing me by how fast you're moving up LOL. I feel like you've accomplished more in 6 weeks than I did the past 6 months and I have no injuries to blame lol

b. me too on the conjugate. I have to really take the time to sit down and not only better understand it, but I need to exactly figure out what days per week I'd be doing what and exactly what my modalities will be since I'm no longer at a true "power lifting" gym, some of the great toys and implements I want to use for conjugate just aren't available to me. I am thinking of buying some bands and chains and just walking into LA Fitness with my own chains haha.

 

[gphagan1]

Nice, I still have an old pair of low top crossfits. They were great for deadlifts for sure!
Agreed on the cross fits. Yeah Duffin is a beast! He has achieved some amazing things.

Yeah, that is where they are. I let them figure it out, and just try to guide as much as possible. I have already taught them what they need to know. I am not worried, I know what they are made of, and that they are good at their core. They are gonna be just fine, but it is a challenging time for sure. I wouldn't give it up for the world though.


I used an old pair of wrestling shoes for years too. The barefoots are very similar except they have the benefit of the wide toe box so your feet can really spread out on the floor and give you a better base. If just using these for lifting they could easily last years and years.

==============================================================================

3/7/23 Bench + Accessories

WU = Clean Up Garage - Short Walk - RC Band Complex

Flat Barbell Bench - WU= Bar x15, 95x10, 135x5, 165x3, 185x3
WS = 205x3, 225x3, 235x3, 245x3, 255x3 - The 255 was a little bit of a grinder. I think I could have gone to 260-265 with a spot but this was as high as I was willing to go solo. I am VERY HAPPY with 255x3 at 7 months post surgery.

IronTec Iso-lateral Reverse Grip Shoulder Press - 45xRPE8, 55xRPE8, 55xRPE9, 55xRPE9 - I went to do regular barbell shoulder press and my shoulder just didn't feel right. So I opted for something that felt safer.

IronTec Iso-lateral Chest Press - 70xRPE9, 70xRPE9, 70xRPE9, 70xRPE9 - Kept things at a slightly higher rep range just getting in that volume.

Rope Triceps Extensions - 70xRPE9, 70xRPE9, 70xFail

Like I mentioned I was very happy with hitting 255x3 on bench. Going to keep things moving.

Also, as much as I am excited to try Conjugate Method, I think I might need to keep working at slightly submaximal levels for a little longer increasing collagen and what not before maxing out on a regular basis. I feel more comfortable going to an RPE9 than pushing for an RPE10 not having full confidence in my joints and connective tissue just yet.

Good job hitting that 255x3 with more in the tank….it feels good when you have rounded the corner from an injury and things start to feel normal.
I think I’m going to have to spring for a pair of the barefoots. Even my wife has commented on that I need to get some new workout shoes., so the door is wide open.

 

[Hyde]

Definitely spend a few months doing some 5s and 3s before considering implementing a max effort method.

Conjugate in a commercial gym is a little tough. Chains are basically a no-go just due to noise: even if nobody complains, you will feel like an asshole clanging around so loud, plus they’re very heavy to haul in/out. Bands can often work fine if you have hex dumbbells that are heavy enough to choke them to, and they’re quiet and portable. But you still have to find variations of the main lifts with just a straight bar. It is definitely doable, but be prepared to get creative. And probably buy a few little tricks like benchblokz/shoulder saver and a Manta Ray or something that goes onto a straight bar eventually.

 

[MrKleen73]

a. your sudden rebuild is embarrassing me by how fast you're moving up LOL. I feel like you've accomplished more in 6 weeks than I did the past 6 months and I have no injuries to blame lol

b. me too on the conjugate. I have to really take the time to sit down and not only better understand it, but I need to exactly figure out what days per week I'd be doing what and exactly what my modalities will be since I'm no longer at a true "power lifting" gym, some of the great toys and implements I want to use for conjugate just aren't available to me. I am thinking of buying some bands and chains and just walking into LA Fitness with my own chains haha.

A. Thanks! Don't be embarrassed tho. I was able to bench 358 at my meet, and that moved quickly but I missed 396. Imagine that I missed a 36lb jump. LOL Even though I have lost some muscle since then I still have a lot of recovery strength to run through. It's muscle memory that is making me rise so quickly. At least I know I am growing mentally because before I would have pushed for 265x3 just to see if I could have done it even without a spotter there. That is where injury likes to hide and then jump out to get me.

B. Amen - While looking at the Conjugate plan that @SkRaw85 sent me i was like Oh Boy... I don't think my body is ready to handle all of those regular attempts at a max. Plus the equipment is a challenge. I have a lot more options at my house than I would at the gym, but no one there to spot me either. I do think I am going to cancel my Planet Fitness Membership and go to the PL gym about 25 minutes from the house a couple times a week. See if I can find some people who can help me with some cues and good spotting.

Good job hitting that 255x3 with more in the tank….it feels good when you have rounded the corner from an injury and things start to feel normal.
I think I’m going to have to spring for a pair of the barefoots. Even my wife has commented on that I need to get some new workout shoes., so the door his wide open.

Thanks honestly I wasn't sure if I would be lifting this heavy again after this surgery and quite happy I am able to do so!!!

You should, I think you will like them.

Definitely spend a few months doing some 5s and 3s before considering implementing a max effort method.

Conjugate in a commercial gym is a little tough. Chains are basically a no-go just due to noise: even if nobody complains, you will feel like an asshole clanging around so loud, plus they’re very heavy to haul in/out. Bands can often work fine if you have hex dumbbells that are heavy enough to choke them to, and they’re quiet and portable. But you still have to find variations of the main lifts with just a straight bar. It is definitely doable, but be prepared to get creative. And probably buy a few little tricks like benchblokz/shoulder saver and a Manta Ray or something that goes onto a straight bar eventually.

Thanks, that was my thought, just keep pushing the 5's and 3's up for a while. Keep getting stronger but keep the governor on so my strength increases don't blow past my joint and connective tissues ability to repair themselves. Mike Israetel has a series called Hypertrophy for PL'ing where he takes you through programming for growth for PL, then graduates through pure strength phases and right up into a peaking strategy. I am going to give it a look and see what all he has to say about programming.

Alternatively, I went back and found the program that Alex Kikel had me doing before we started our peaking protocol and might break that, or one of his hybrid strength and hypertrophy programs back out. He relies heavily on pushing the weight up and does a lot of work in the 3-6 rep range which would all push strength up a bit. I had a lot of success with his programming and like using the RPE system too.

 

[Hyde]

Read all of these articles if you are serious about exploring beginning a Conjugate training program. They aren’t very long reads, but these will better help you understand some of the nuance that feeds the bigger picture. Understand your success or failure will be entirely dependent on your ability to troubleshoot, plan, execute, and especially autoregulate as you go. A lot of people fail either because they don’t do enough accessory or fail to choose movements that address THEIR current needs.

Conjugate Training Advice

Advice and solutions to solve common mistakes and issues encountered when using the Conjugate Method - Westside Barbell

www.westside-barbell.com

Conjugate Training Advice II

Discussing a few commonly misunderstood aspects of Conjugate Method training and programming - Westside Barbell

www.westside-barbell.com

Westside Barbell Basic Workout Template

Advice regarding how to properly plan and organize a Conjugate Method training day - Westside Barbell

www.westside-barbell.com

Understanding the Repeated Effort Method

Information to provide a basic understand of the repeated effort method, and it’s use within a Conjugate training plan - Westside Barbell

www.westside-barbell.com

Walkthrough of a Max Effort Lower Training Day

Advice regarding the proper planning and execution of a max effort lower training day - Westside Barbell

www.westside-barbell.com

Main Exercise Selection for Beginners

Advice regarding main exercise selection and programming for individuals new to the Conjugate Method - Westside Barbell

www.westside-barbell.com

Building Your Base: Upper Body Main Exercises

Advice on how to use the Conjugate Method to build base levels of upper body strength - Westside Barbell

www.westside-barbell.com

 

[SkRaw85]

Nice lookin deads! Bearfoot or bust my man!

There have been many time when running conjugate if I did not have access to a special machine or bar (belt squats seem to be the big one) I would just improvise with some creative banded/chained/whatever it takes idea. I belt squatted in my garage standing on boxes with a dip belt on chained to plates and band tension to boot.

 

[MrKleen73]

Read all of these articles if you are serious about exploring beginning a Conjugate training program. They aren’t very long reads, but these will better help you understand some of the nuance that feeds the bigger picture. Understand your success or failure will be entirely dependent on your ability to troubleshoot, plan, execute, and especially autoregulate as you go. A lot of people fail either because they don’t do enough accessory or fail to choose movements that address THEIR current needs.

Conjugate Training Advice

Advice and solutions to solve common mistakes and issues encountered when using the Conjugate Method - Westside Barbell

www.westside-barbell.com

Conjugate Training Advice II

Discussing a few commonly misunderstood aspects of Conjugate Method training and programming - Westside Barbell

www.westside-barbell.com

Westside Barbell Basic Workout Template

Advice regarding how to properly plan and organize a Conjugate Method training day - Westside Barbell

www.westside-barbell.com

Understanding the Repeated Effort Method

Information to provide a basic understand of the repeated effort method, and it’s use within a Conjugate training plan - Westside Barbell

www.westside-barbell.com

Walkthrough of a Max Effort Lower Training Day

Advice regarding the proper planning and execution of a max effort lower training day - Westside Barbell

www.westside-barbell.com

Main Exercise Selection for Beginners

Advice regarding main exercise selection and programming for individuals new to the Conjugate Method - Westside Barbell

www.westside-barbell.com

Building Your Base: Upper Body Main Exercises

Advice on how to use the Conjugate Method to build base levels of upper body strength - Westside Barbell

www.westside-barbell.com

Awesome, thanks! I will give them a read for sure. I definitely want to give it a try once I feel a little more confident in my shoulder, and biceps tendon attachment. It seems like the best way to increase strength from what I have seen.

Nice lookin deads! Bearfoot or bust my man!

There have been many time when running conjugate if I did not have access to a special machine or bar (belt squats seem to be the big one) I would just improvise with some creative banded/chained/whatever it takes idea. I belt squatted in my garage standing on boxes with a dip belt on chained to plates and band tension to boot.

Thank you Sir! Yeah you have always been pretty creative with your training. I already have chains and bands just need some band attachments, and a solid box for box squats. Maybe get one of the board blocks or press blocks you have that imitate board pressing. I might even incorporate some of these things into whatever I am doing even if I am not doing full on Max Effort lifting. I am sure it would help even if not going max effort on the strength lifts.

Do either of you have any DYI ideas or videos for setting up chains on the bar other than buying one of those expensive chain collars? Also how much of the chain should be on the floor for a squat and do you want the chains to come completely off of the floor at the top if the squat or press?

 

[SkRaw85]

Awesome, thanks! I will give them a read for sure. I definitely want to give it a try once I feel a little more confident in my shoulder, and biceps tendon attachment. It seems like the best way to increase strength from what I have seen.

Thank you Sir! Yeah you have always been pretty creative with your training. I already have chains and bands just need some band attachments, and a solid box for box squats. Maybe get one of the board blocks or press blocks you have that imitate board pressing. I might even incorporate some of these things into whatever I am doing even if I am not doing full on Max Effort lifting. I am sure it would help even if not going max effort on the strength lifts.

Do either of you have any DYI ideas or videos for setting up chains on the bar other than buying one of those expensive chain collars? Also how much of the chain should be on the floor for a squat and do you want the chains to come completely off of the floor at the top if the squat or press?

I’ll take pics of my diy chain setup for ya. Simple setup.

At lockout you want the last links just barely hovering; sometimes just barely touching the floor to stop the momentum if using a heavy weight so the bar doesn’t swing with chains hanging

 

[Dustin07]

B. Amen - While looking at the Conjugate plan that @SkRaw85 sent me i was like Oh Boy... I don't think my body is ready to handle all of those regular attempts at a max

valid concern, could you taper it? Instead of max vs dynamic, have "heavyish" vs dynamic?

 

[Hyde]

I might even incorporate some of these things into whatever I am doing even if I am not doing full on Max Effort lifting. I am sure it would help even if not going max effort on the strength lifts.

Do either of you have any DYI ideas or videos for setting up chains on the bar other than buying one of those expensive chain collars? Also how much of the chain should be on the floor for a squat and do you want the chains to come completely off of the floor at the top if the squat or press?

Someone not doing Conjugate could still very much utilize something like a bench vs bands as a primary strength accessory, same as they might rotate through closegrip or incline benching after their flat bench work. Or frontsquats after they squat.

I just bought a pair of chain loaders on a sale but still haven’t used them really - you just need a longer thin light chain from the hardware store to act as the carrier chain. Make it into a loop with a carabiner to hang over the barbell sleeve (this let’s you adjust the length off the ground based on where you place the carabiner on the little chain).

Your big chains (the weight portion) should be around 20lbs, give or take. Put a carabiner in the middle of each of those, so both ends are on the floor.

Set the length of your thin carrier chain so that when you have the bar at lockout, at least a couple links of the big chains remain on the floor. If all the chain weight is off the floor, it becomes a stability exercise too. This is fine for a Max Effort variation, but absolutely not what you want to train explosive force production. The sole purpose of the chain for dynamic work should be linear accommodating resistance.

1 min video:

 

[Dustin07]

Someone not doing Conjugate could still very much utilize something like a bench vs bands as a primary strength accessory, same as they might rotate through closegrip or incline benching after their flat bench work. Or frontsquats after they squat.

I just bought a pair of chain loaders on a sale but still haven’t used them really - you just need a longer thin light chain from the hardware store to act as the carrier chain. Make it into a loop with a carabiner to hang over the barbell sleeve (this let’s you adjust the length off the ground based on where you place the carabiner on the little chain).

Your big chains (the weight portion) should be around 20lbs, give or take. Put a carabiner in the middle of each of those, so both ends are on the floor.

Set the length of your thin carrier chain so that when you have the bar at lockout, at least a couple links of the big chains remain on the floor. If all the chain weight is off the floor, it becomes a stability exercise too. This is fine for a Max Effort variation, but absolutely not what you want to train explosive force production. The sole purpose of the chain for dynamic work should be linear accommodating resistance.

1 min video:

Do you think there is a substantial difference in training stimulus using chains vs bands in the case of squats or slingshot etc for bench? I am thinking there is SOME difference but there is a part of me that thinks in the case of bench right now having the sling shot in my gym bag is accomplishing 90% of what chains would do on bench anyways (since I'd have to buy and take the chains into the gym). I'm just thinking at the bottom, chains are removed OR slingshot assists and in both scenarios it gets progressively loaded but the main difference being that the slingshot will give you more bounce out of the hole and create some momentum whereas the chains will more linearly overload.

I don't think anyone would mind chains at my gym on the bench, it is a LA fitness box / chain gym (no pun intended) but it's gritty in Tacoma and the lifters are legit.

 

[MrKleen73]

I’ll take pics of my diy chain setup for ya. Simple setup.

At lockout you want the last links just barely hovering; sometimes just barely touching the floor to stop the momentum if using a heavy weight so the bar doesn’t swing with chains hanging

Sweet, thanks!

valid concern, could you taper it? Instead of max vs dynamic, have "heavyish" vs dynamic?

Yeah that is basically how I would incorporate them. Working up via 3-5 rep sets adding 5lbs per up to say RPE8 or 9, and doing the DE on another day, or later in the workout depending on split.

Someone not doing Conjugate could still very much utilize something like a bench vs bands as a primary strength accessory, same as they might rotate through closegrip or incline benching after their flat bench work. Or frontsquats after they squat.

I just bought a pair of chain loaders on a sale but still haven’t used them really - you just need a longer thin light chain from the hardware store to act as the carrier chain. Make it into a loop with a carabiner to hang over the barbell sleeve (this let’s you adjust the length off the ground based on where you place the carabiner on the little chain).

Your big chains (the weight portion) should be around 20lbs, give or take. Put a carabiner in the middle of each of those, so both ends are on the floor.

Set the length of your thin carrier chain so that when you have the bar at lockout, at least a couple links of the big chains remain on the floor. If all the chain weight is off the floor, it becomes a stability exercise too. This is fine for a Max Effort variation, but absolutely not what you want to train explosive force production. The sole purpose of the chain for dynamic work should be linear accommodating resistance.

1 min video:

Thanks, his set up looks so easy. Was definitely overthinking it. Do you think using bands or chains after the main workout is as effective as doing the DE stuff on a different day CNSwise? I can see how doing on a separate day benefits frequency so that is a plus on doing it separately.

Do you think there is a substantial difference in training stimulus using chains vs bands in the case of squats or slingshot etc for bench? I am thinking there is SOME difference but there is a part of me that thinks in the case of bench right now having the sling shot in my gym bag is accomplishing 90% of what chains would do on bench anyways (since I'd have to buy and take the chains into the gym). I'm just thinking at the bottom, chains are removed OR slingshot assists and in both scenarios it gets progressively loaded but the main difference being that the slingshot will give you more bounce out of the hole and create some momentum whereas the chains will more linearly overload.

I don't think anyone would mind chains at my gym on the bench, it is a LA fitness box / chain gym (no pun intended) but it's gritty in Tacoma and the lifters are legit.

@Dustin07 Since I am not the specialist on this type of training I can only take a stab here but the main difference between using resistance bands over the slingshot would likely be that you have a lot more variety in how much accommodating resistance you can employ. With the slingshot you are limited to maybe 15lbs or so off at the bottom, slightly higher or lower depending on the model of slingshot you have. That means the top of the set can only belets say 10-20lbs heavier than the bottom of the movement. With bands this can be into the 100's. Some of what I saw in researching was stating you want around 25% increase over the weight. So although the slingshot is giving you an assist I am not sure if the difference in accommodating resistance is enough to drive the specific adaptations targeted with this type of training. However that is just a guess and one of the people more familiar with it may have a better understanding.

 

[Dustin07]

I know we have discussed this before but I believe there is some sort of neural response in the "boing" of a band vs the effort of stagnant resistance like chains. I'm sorry I can't articulate it but I know I've mentioned before when I tested my theory on banded athletes for pull-ups and I proved that a 20lb band could make a person 40lbs stronger by putting heavier vests on the athlete than the band could even support.

I can't articulate it, I can't support it, but I have a sneaking suspicion that 20lbs (or 200.. pick a number) of chains offers a different and more challenging stimulus than 20lbs of assistance (or 200 etc) from the recoil you get out of a slingshot or band.

Does that make sense? so hard for me to type out my thoughts there. it's like when you spot someone who would 100% fail a bench but you just tap the bar with your pinky, literally taking less than an ounce off of it, and suddenly they finish the lift.

 

[MrKleen73]

Yes, I think you might be referring to stored energy, and it helping to break the inertia. However that is with a reverse band set up where there is assistance is at the bottom. Which is what the slingshot would most resemble. With that you could likely lift more in the manner you mentioned because you can break a heavier weight, move it faster out of the bottom and get more momentum to carry through the heavier portion of the lift.

With a regular band set up there is no assistance at the bottom at all. Depending on how tight you have the set up their might even be added resistance at the bottom. In both situations there would be more resistance at the top of the movement but one assists with breaking the inertia to get the bar moving (reverse band setup), and the other (regular band setup) manually increases the resistance at the top but does not help breaking inertia at all. You are actually trying to keep the momentum IE... speed and acceleration from the lighter portion as you move into the heavier portion of the lift.

Hopefully I worded that in a way that makes sense.

 

[Dustin07]

Hopefully I worded that in a way that makes sense.

It does, and it has my brain running. I want to order some bands. Here's what I'm thinking:
banded bench for low weight dynamic days (although I'm not sure how I'm going to configure it yet aside from the db idea) I'm not even sure how to get into this position lol.

but also for banded squats (band from top)
and banded deadlifts. the platforms here have hooks for banded deads and squats so that's no big deal.
But I've never had to buy bands. even when I owned my xfit gym we had a huge collection already from the equipment I bought.

Can you recommend what you'd get ?

EliteFTS has so many options.

 

[MrKleen73]

It does, and it has my brain running. I want to order some bands. Here's what I'm thinking:
banded bench for low weight dynamic days (although I'm not sure how I'm going to configure it yet aside from the db idea) I'm not even sure how to get into this position lol.

but also for banded squats (band from top)
and banded deadlifts. the platforms here have hooks for banded deads and squats so that's no big deal.
But I've never had to buy bands. even when I owned my xfit gym we had a huge collection already from the equipment I bought.

Can you recommend what you'd get ?

EliteFTS has so many options.
View attachment 229988

@Hyde or @SkRaw85 could one of you all answer this one. I don't really know which bands are best for each lift. I have only used them in a few Mountaindog programs on machines at that. Otherwise just using the bands themselves for resistance but not for PL style accommodating resistance.

 

[MrKleen73]

3/9/23 Squat day!!!

WU = Walking - Shoulder and RC Complex to warm up for holding Oly Barbell.

Low Bar Squats - Barbell only 15, 15, 15 - Working to loosen up the shoulder so I can do back squats with Barbell. Was able to get the bar down on my rear delts by the end of these but it was uncomfortable and not sure I could have done so with extra weight on the bar. I can add weight if I do High bar Oly Style which is my normal squat but want to see if I can get more weight with low bar once I have the ROM in my shoulders to do so. Going to include some of these in my warm ups until I can get comfortable with the low bar set up.

SSB Squats - WU - Bar Only x 10 x2, 115x8, 155x5, 195x3, 215x3
Work Sets
245x3
285x3
295x3
305x3
315x3
325x3
335x3
345x3

Alternating Body Weight Lunges (Deep Stretch) x 20 per leg - was breathing heavy after these. Just wanted to flush the muscles with blood and get in some active stretching for my hip flexors.

Power Wheel Plank to Pike - 13@RPE9, 11@RPE9

Power Wheel Plank to Pushup to Pike 10@RPE10, 7@RPE10 - I wanted to add in the push ups to help with shoulder stability.

The Power Wheel is the ab wheel you attach to your feet instead of holding in your hands. It has a much more intense core stability requirement than normal. So those pushups are pretty beastly.

I ended up being happy with the performance yesterday after adjusting expectations. The 345 is 10lbs over my heaviest set since the surgery. I was initially hoping to get to 355, but 285 felt pretty heavy so I had to start taking smaller jumps earlier than intended and just got fatigued by all the upper end sets. Confidence started coming back at 315 but I could feel fatigue by the 3rd rep on 335, and hit an RPE9 on 345x3 so I called it. I think I definitely have 355 or 365x3 in the tank with proper steps up instead of so many higher effort sets on the way up. Either way I didn't expect to get to 345 after how heavy 285 felt so was happy after adjusting expectations.

 

[Dustin07]

solid session!!

 

[MrKleen73]

solid session!!

Thank you Sir!

 

[Hyde]

@Dustin07 they are all different in stimulus. I know they are all lighter at the bottom, but benching with reverse bands hung from top vs a slingshot vs against doubled bands from below all feel very different. Reverse bands do not change the bar path and feel like a spotter helping you on the way back up. Slingshot actively gives feelings of protection and guides your path - it is closer to reverse band work. Benching against doubled bands is very different - the bands create over speed eccentrics, literally pulling the bar down faster than a similar total weight could travel, and they teach you to be explosive and drive continually, or you won’t make the lift because they are trying to drag you down. Bands from the floor punish you for not lifting all out every rep.

You should order a pair of long Microbands (tiny orange) Minibands (pink/red) and long Monster Minibands (green). You will only need the micros doubled for bench from floor, you will probably want to squat against minis, and you shouldn’t use heavier than a monster from the top of rack for reverse band anything. And you can stack all 3 for a ton of resistance if desired.

If you only get 2 pairs, get the micros and minis, not the monsters. I’m not a big proponent of lots of reverse band assistance, and you can still use minis for that.

@MrKleen73 Louie always taught the speed work should definitely be trained away from ME work, because it confuses the brain from a learning perspective. Idk if that’s true, but I can definitely say having more frequency and a lighter day is definitely a big benefit to having the speedwork day. Most people cannot just lift heavy every single time they’re in the gym and be successful. And practice matters too.

 

[MrKleen73]

@MrKleen73 Louie always taught the speed work should definitely be trained away from ME work, because it confuses the brain from a learning perspective. Idk if that’s true, but I can definitely say having more frequency and a lighter day is definitely a big benefit to having the speedwork day. Most people cannot just lift heavy every single time they’re in the gym and be successful. And practice matters too.

Great information on the bands and which ones to get. Thanks!

That is what I thought I had read somewhere before. I do like the idea of a 2nd day for speed work, practice perfection, and get a little extra volume and frequency added to the equation.

 

[Dustin07]

You should order a pair of long Microbands (tiny orange) Minibands (pink/red) and long Monster Minibands (green). You will only need the micros doubled for bench from floor, you will probably want to squat against minis, and you shouldn’t use heavier than a monster from the top of rack for reverse band anything. And you can stack all 3 for a ton of resistance if desired.

Done deal
Initially my mind was focused on all three lifts (press, squat, pull) being banded from the bottom although I do like the idea of training heavier weight on squats even if assisted because it still blows my mind how heavy 365 feels on my back even if I'm pulling 465 or squatting 315 that same day. When I was hitting multiple singles at 300 this week working on form, by buddy was repping 365 so I did a walk out to see what it felt like and man.. it really felt heavy.

 

[BennyMagoo79]

Nice pulls mate! Pretty solid numbers so soon after shoulder surgery. I think you are wise to progress with small steps.

 

[SkRaw85]

It does, and it has my brain running. I want to order some bands. Here's what I'm thinking:
banded bench for low weight dynamic days (although I'm not sure how I'm going to configure it yet aside from the db idea) I'm not even sure how to get into this position lol.

but also for banded squats (band from top)
and banded deadlifts. the platforms here have hooks for banded deads and squats so that's no big deal.
But I've never had to buy bands. even when I owned my xfit gym we had a huge collection already from the equipment I bought.

Can you recommend what you'd get ?

EliteFTS has so many options.
View attachment 229988

Go with elite. I am quite disappointed by the last batch of bands I got from Westside. My first set was equal all around. The monster minis from this new set have MAJOR variance in tensions.

 

[SkRaw85]

And upon further reading I see you did lol. Nice.

 

[SkRaw85]

Nice squats! That power wheel looks miserable. I’ve never seen that before.

 

[MrKleen73]

Nice pulls mate! Pretty solid numbers so soon after shoulder surgery. I think you are wise to progress with small steps.

Thank you Sir!

Nice squats! That power wheel looks miserable. I’ve never seen that before.

Oh yeah, that thing is definitely a step up from the hand held regarding forcing core stability. Even my quads get so tight they almost cramp. Will definitely make you engage your entire core. Plus you can do things like wheelbarrow walks and stuff too that really improve shoulder stability!

3/11/23 - Upper Body Push / Pull - Vertical focus

WU - 10 minute walk - RC Complex

Standing Military Press - Bar x15, Bar x10, 95X8, 115X6, 125X6, 135X6, 145X4, 115X6 - strength just wasn't there, after such good pressing the other day I am not too surprised.

NG Pull Ups - 5, +25x3, +25x3, +25x3, +25x3, +25x3 - First Weighted Pull Ups since surgery.

DB Side Raises - 25xRPE10, 25xRPE10, 25xRPE10

Wide Grip Bent Over Rows - 95xRPE10, 95xRPE10, 95xRPE10 - High Rep Pump, trying to get blood in there, My brachialis is still giving me issues so using pump work for hypertrophy sets to get more blood and give the area some rest from the heavier stuff.

Band PAPs - 50, 37

Powerline Ab Wheel - 10, 10, 10

Getting some soreness in the right brachialis still. I think it may be related to stabilizing during heavier pressing but not quite sure. Time to go get a little more soft tissue manipulation done on it. It is hindering progress.

I have been slipping the last 2 weeks on my nutrition. Not doing bad, but just maintaining which isn't good either. Weight has been bouncing between 212-217 depending on carb and salt consumption. I have not been doing any extended fasting, and have been paying more attention to eating a bit to push my lifts instead of fasting the day before them. Time to refocus back on the fasting and diet a bit more. Especially while the biceps / brachialis is being a limiting factor.

I will be doing Deadlifts tonight, going to follow it up with some hinging movements, or leg press and leg curls.

 

[MrKleen73]

I forgot to mention I am going to go ahead and mix up some BPC and start injecting into the distal end of my biceps / brachialis to see if it can help me out. @Hyde, I saw you were using 250mcg for your hamstrings, I used 200mcg for my shoulder. Do you think the size of the muscle in the area makes a difference in dosing? Would you run @ 200 or 250 if it was your biceps?

 

[Hyde]

I forgot to mention I am going to go ahead and mix up some BPC and start injecting into the distal end of my biceps / brachialis to see if it can help me out. @Hyde, I saw you were using 250mcg for your hamstrings, I used 200mcg for my shoulder. Do you think the size of the muscle in the area makes a difference in dosing? Would you run @ 200 or 250 if it was your biceps?

I had good success with 125mcg twice a day on my bicep tendon repair. I think getting at least daily shots in at almost any dose matters most, and I’ve heard Mike Arnold say it’s extremely minimal amounts he’s had good success with as well.

I simply put 2ml in a 5mg vial and did once a day 0.1ml for about 20 days out of convenience. I think you could squeeze 3ml in a 5mg vial and probably get just as good of results if you were interested in pinning it daily for a month, or twice a day for 2 weeks.

 

[MrKleen73]

I had good success with 125mcg twice a day on my bicep tendon repair. I think getting at least daily shots in at almost any dose matters most, and I’ve heard Mike Arnold say it’s extremely minimal amounts he’s had good success with as well.

I simply put 2ml in a 5mg vial and did once a day 0.1ml for about 20 days out of convenience. I think you could squeeze 3ml in a 5mg vial and probably get just as good of results if you were interested in pinning it daily for a month, or twice a day for 2 weeks.

Thanks!

 

[MrKleen73]

Deadlifts went well tonight, weights were moving fast even though I am keeping my rev limiter on to make sure connective tissue is ready and not letting the weights go up too fast. This ain't a race! I kept it super simple today,

3/13/23 Deadlift day!

WU = Dynamic Movement, biceps stretches, band PAP, band curls, deficit DL

Deficit Deadlifts - 95x15 x 95x15 - just used 25s and went to floor, getting more blood into the lower back.

Conventional Deadlifts - DOH Grip - 135x5, 225x5, 275x3, 315x3, 375x3 - Switch to mixed grip 405x3, 425x3 - I had a lot more in me. I could have probably done a few more sets and maybe 30 more lbs but thought better of it with the arm being sore and the weight getting heavier. I will go to 445 next session, maybe push 455 if things feel really good.

Here is a video of the set of 425x3 it won't embed because it got made into a short instead.
Deadlifts 425x3 video

Sumo Deadlifts 225x10 x 5 sets - really focused on glutes and adductors with these and got in a groove. Nice amount of volume here.

Oly Barbell Curls - barbell only - 36, 17, 12 - Short rest period and painful pump ensued here.

Band PAP - 50, 50 - Whew!!!!

Then I taught Sage how to grill their first steaks. They made me a nice big sirloin!!!

 

[gphagan1]

Nice pulls….looking strong. Sage did a good job on the steaks. Always feels good when your kids start cooking and prepare you a meal, and when you brag on it you can see that sense of pride on their face. We had steaks last night too ….I’m always ready for a good steak.

 

[Dustin07]

Deadlifts went well tonight, weights were moving fast even though I am keeping my rev limiter on to make sure connective tissue is ready and not letting the weights go up too fast. This ain't a race! I kept it super simple today,

3/13/23 Deadlift day!

WU = Dynamic Movement, biceps stretches, band PAP, band curls, deficit DL

Deficit Deadlifts - 95x15 x 95x15 - just used 25s and went to floor, getting more blood into the lower back.

Conventional Deadlifts - DOH Grip - 135x5, 225x5, 275x3, 315x3, 375x3 - Switch to mixed grip 405x3, 425x3 - I had a lot more in me. I could have probably done a few more sets and maybe 30 more lbs but thought better of it with the arm being sore and the weight getting heavier. I will go to 445 next session, maybe push 455 if things feel really good.

Here is a video of the set of 425x3 it won't embed because it got made into a short instead.
Deadlifts 425x3 video

Sumo Deadlifts 225x10 x 5 sets - really focused on glutes and adductors with these and got in a groove. Nice amount of volume here.

Oly Barbell Curls - barbell only - 36, 17, 12 - Short rest period and painful pump ensued here.

Band PAP - 50, 50 - Whew!!!!

Then I taught Sage how to grill their first steaks. They made me a nice big sirloin!!!

View attachment 230135

steak looks hella good. I told my boy when we have boys weekend coming up, he's cooking the meals lol. so we'll probably have burgers, tacos, etc.

Your tris are huge lol, looking meaty in that video. I always get paranoid about the biceps so I tend to switch to my switch grip a little earlier to stretch them out before my big pulls but it seems like with your muscle memory ramping up so dang fast 425 for 3 for you is the equivalent to 385 for 3 for me.

 

[MrKleen73]

Nice pulls….looking strong. Sage did a good job on the steaks. Always feels good when your kids start cooking and prepare you a meal, and when you brag on it you can see that sense of pride on their face. We had steaks last night too ….I’m always ready for a good steak.

Yeah, it was good we dry-brined them overnight in the fridge so the salt was in the meat, not just on the meat. They were really proud. Nice medium rare cook.

I was impressed by the speed of those pulls. My arm feels fine today, but my back is smoked. Not DOMs but just beat up in an awesome way. The way that thickens your back into slabs of meat!

 

[Hyde]

Erectors are going to look like that steak soon! Impressive accessory too.

If you watch where your hips are when you start the pull, you are dropping them more than you probably need to. If you focus on driving the hips into the bar instead of just dropping them to wedge in, you can cut some of that extra motion out and probably create a better wedge off the floor. Or at least, a bit more consistent.

 

[MrKleen73]

Erectors are going to look like that steak soon! Impressive accessory too.

If you watch where your hips are when you start the pull, you are dropping them more than you probably need to. If you focus on driving the hips into the bar instead of just dropping them to wedge in, you can cut some of that extra motion out and probably create a better wedge off the floor. Or at least, a bit more consistent.

Thanks! Great observation. That was my thought after watching it, and seeing my hips go up before the bar broke. I was curious if anyone would mention it as well. I will focus on pulling hips into the bar. I should see a good improvement off the ground once i get it locked back in. It's the little things we forget if we take time away from exercises that can make a big difference!

 

[MrKleen73]

Going to go with Sage to see the MGK concert at the Houston rodeo tonight. The friend who bought them for their birthday got sick so I am filling in. He is great live, so I'm looking forward to it!

Will get a ton of walking in. Eat a turkey leg and treat myself to some rodeo fair food in tonight.

 

[Dustin07]

I keep forgetting you're in TX, enjoy the show man!
My wife keeps asking me to take her down cause she's never been. if we make it to Houston maybe you can help us bird dog some good TX BBQ!

 

[MrKleen73]

I keep forgetting you're in TX, enjoy the show man!
My wife keeps asking me to take her down cause she's never been. if we make it to Houston maybe you can help us bird dog some good TX BBQ!

That would be great!

 

[Dustin07]

That would be great!

I was thinking about making it a country song road trip, fly in to Albuquerque for a day, make Amarillo by morning... probably pass through Dallas > Waco (chip n joe), on to either Austin or San Antonio before ending in Houston to party lol. I've told her too many stories about Austin to not take her to 6th lol.

 

[MrKleen73]

I was thinking about making it a country song road trip, fly in to Albuquerque for a day, make Amarillo by morning... probably pass through Dallas > Waco (chip n joe), on to either Austin or San Antonio before ending in Houston to party lol. I've told her too many stories about Austin to not take her to 6th lol.

I will be in Austin the weekend of the 25th through the 29th. I will get out to have a few drinks or go to a local comedy bar while I am out there. It's always a fun town to visit. So much live music and stuff to do. You all could also come by for a garage session if you wanted.

 

[Dustin07]

You all could also come by for a garage session if you wanted.

I was thinking a bro session would be on the docket for sure!!
if we do materialize this trip I'll keep you in the loop. I used to go to a lot of rodeos (farm boy) but it's been hard to hold on to my roots since I moved to Tacoma and met my wife. I told her if we do a TX trip I might want to take a look at local county fairs and rodeos so that we schedule it around one.