Classic Kleen - The Road To Competition Fall 2024

[MrKleen73]

I am planning to do a Classic Physique contest in the fall of next year. There are really two possibilities I am considering. One is in mid October, and the other is mid November and it is a bigger show. I am heavily considering the bigger show as it gives me more time but there also might be more competitors in my age class. If not I will compete against the younger group too because I want to compete not just get the trophy. Anyway, this log is to document the preparation going into getting myself ready the competition. I welcome you all to join in and be a part of this with me!

Originally the plan was to do a competition for my 50th year on this rock we call earth, but I had to get shoulder surgery and thought that may never happen, but I have recovered well and regrown a good portion of muscle I lost so I am going for it now. Better late than never right! I have some work to do, muscle to grow and fat to lose. So this should be an interesting ride, at least for me.

Training Style - I currently focus my training on full rom, pauses in the stretched position, long negatives and RP's dual progression model. I will be using the RP App to plan and track mesos.

Current Short Range Plan - Continue to lean out over the next month before going to maintenance for a couple weeks then starting to lean gain from there.

Goals - Bring everything up! Actually I am laying low a bit on back to give some other body parts a chance to catch up. Main focus now is legs, arms and shoulders with chest just a bit above MEV, and back around MV.

Current Nutrition - Right around or just above maintenance on training days, protein stays around 200 minimum, fats average 60-80g, and the rest is carbs. Then I do 1-2 36 hour fasts a week. Fasting will stop once I move completely to maintenance, and above unless I need a quick clean up.

PEDs - Kicking off 500mg a week tomorrow on the first, the plan is 300Test E, 200 Mast E - but the first week will have to be all Test E, as I am waiting on my Mast E. From there I will titrate up until I hit around 10-15mg/KG of bodyweight depending on sides.

Mild Concerns - Loose skin from being heavier, and Psuedo-Gyno/Gyno that need to go down before the show. Not too worried on the skin, but if I get down really lean and can't shrink things up enough, I will not get on stage with a bad case of gyno. I am not saying I can't have it, just it can't be bad in my eyes. I won't have something that embarrasses me out on the internet forever. LOL. Judging from where it is now and where how I looked around this condition for my show in 09 I would say I am pretty close to that and that was barely visible once I got nice and lean. I just hold a lot of estrogen sensitive fat there and it comes off last so it will take being a bit leaner to see how much actual gland tissue is there.

Current Fasted Morning Weight 199.2lbs - BF Estimate around 15%

Starting Pictures - Just out of bed, no food, no pump.

Alright, it is go time! Sooooo LFG!!!

 

[Renew1]

That's great!
I'm following....

 

[Smont]

Nice, I'm in!

 

[MrKleen73]

That's great!
I'm following....

Nice, I'm in!

Welcome Gentlemen, I am excited for this!

 

[Smont]

Welcome Gentlemen, I am excited for this!

How long ago was your last cycle and how long have you been out the gym or training light. I have a good feeling that you had enough setbacks and time off that your gonna recomp and grow even in a slight deficit once the cycle gets moving.

Also, are you going to bulk into a holding/matnence phase before going into a cut and them start looking for a show, or do you already have a few possibilities for shows lined up? I pop in and out yiur other thread but I can't remember the timeliness on the injuries and stuff

 

[Smont]

I'm also excited for you bud. It takes a lot of dedication for that. I have never achieved stage ready level of leanness. I've probably not got lower then 9-10% in the past 10 years to be honest lol

 

[PolishHamm3r77]

What Bf% would you say you are in these pics? Looking for a number to shoot for. Your starting point is my end game. Damn that 8yrs of dirty bulk w no lifting

 

[PolishHamm3r77]

Scrolled up, read a bit, and answer my own damn question! Est 15% BF

 

[BennyMagoo79]

Looking good mate!! Excited for what is to come!

 

[Hyde]

In! Better start saving for your entry fees now.

 

[Segansational]

Nice! New log means he's in it to win it! Definitely will follow along, and as someone already stated, you're at a good starting place already - particularly your quads and abs.

 

[akboom87]

Oh yeah!!! LFG! In brother!

 

[jimbuick]

I’d hit that for sure.

(And by “that” I obviously mean that subscribe button).

 

[MrKleen73]

How long ago was your last cycle and how long have you been out the gym or training light. I have a good feeling that you had enough setbacks and time off that your gonna recomp and grow even in a slight deficit once the cycle gets moving.

Also, are you going to bulk into a holding/matnence phase before going into a cut and them start looking for a show, or do you already have a few possibilities for shows lined up? I pop in and out yiur other thread but I can't remember the timeliness on the injuries and stuff

My last cycle which was a mild one was more for recovery from my surgery in August, and was over in January. I agree and think you are right. The biggest I have been in this shape is 212-216 depending on carb intake for a couple years. So I should have muscle memory to get around there at least.

Yes that is the plan, and why I am trying to get down more now before turning up the gas No I have already started looking at the Texas schedule for the last few years and these 2 shows in Oct and November are the only ones I can see within my timelines.

I'm also excited for you bud. It takes a lot of dedication for that. I have never achieved stage ready level of leanness. I've probably not got lower then 9-10% in the past 10 years to be honest lol

Thanks, I did one many years ago in 09, and I got really lean for it. Unfortunately I didn't have a coach, and was following a writeup from a coach that I was supposed to get a steak dinner with frsalted fries and a big peice of cheesecake. well the restaurantr ran out of cheesecakes and I didn;t know what to sub it with. I didn't estimate what to replace it with well and came in super flat. All of my thickness disappeared, plus I used a natural diuretic when I was already dry as a bone and lost 8 lbs overnight the night before the show. I couldn't fill up, no salt... I still looked decent just a lot smaller than I should have. Here's a few shots from that. I know, I am going to need to work on my posing but like I mentioned, I didn't have a coach for prep.

Y

This is what I looked like 2 days before 7lbs heavier at 178 and dry as a bone... I had no business near a diuretic.... Can you imagine that with a few pounds of glycogen added?

What Bf% would you say you are in these pics? Looking for a number to shoot for. Your starting point is my end game. Damn that 8yrs of dirty bulk w no lifting

Yeah coming back from a few years of injuries and then just stopping for over a year I fell behind then right as I was catching back up last year I tore my left shoulder, so I know about coming back. I have had to do it a lot recently.

Scrolled up, read a bit, and answer my own damn question! Est 15% BF

Haha, Nice!

Looking good mate!! Excited for what is to come!

Thanks! I am too!

Nice! New log means he's in it to win it! Definitely will follow along, and as someone already stated, you're at a good starting place already - particularly your quads and abs.

Thanks for the compliments! Yeah, I am definitely in this bad boy. These are also from a less flattering angle but it shows some of my weaknesses more. Which I need. Although admittedly I wanted to raise the camera to eye level so it saw what I saw in the mirror but this is actually better for accountability.

Oh yeah!!! LFG! In brother!

LFG!!!!

I’d hit that for sure.

(And by “that” I obviously mean that subscribe button).

LMAO!

 

[gphagan1]

In on this ride….legs are already looking sick, and the double bicep really shows the progress in your arms already. Ready for this journey.

 

[MrKleen73]

In on this ride….legs are already looking sick, and the double bicep really shows the progress in your arms already. Ready for this journey.

Thanks, it's funny in my head I can't get over the thought I have small legs. It just won't go away. I was asked by a trainer I held in high esteem long ago, "You have a great upper body, but what happened to your legs?" Granted that changed my training, she taught me about high volume high rep leg work on the leg press, and using the right exercises for me to grow my legs. However I have never been able to get the idea my legs are too small out of my head.

I just posted up in the RP group for the coaches asking what I should work on and they were like awesome you have great quads, just work on your upper body a lot and get nice and lean and you should be golden. Here I sit having busted ass on them for 6 months thinking they were the weak piece of the puzzle and now they are my strength so that is good. It also gives me a lot more recovery capability to move around if I am not pushing legs as the main focus of growth.

 

[PolishHamm3r77]

Thanks, it's funny in my head I can't get over the thought I have small legs. It just won't go away. I was asked by a trainer I held in high esteem long ago, "You have a great upper body, but what happened to your legs?" Granted that changed my training, she taught me about high volume high rep leg work on the leg press, and using the right exercises for me to grow my legs. However I have never been able to get the idea my legs are too small out of my head.

I just posted up in the RP group for the coaches asking what I should work on and they were like awesome you have great quads, just work on your upper body a lot and get nice and lean and you should be golden. Here I sit having busted ass on them for 6 months thinking they were the weak piece of the puzzle and now they are my strength so that is good. It also gives me a lot more recovery capability to move around if I am not pushing legs as the main focus of growth.

Wow. That trainer rented space in your head about your legs. You used it as a motivator! Nice work man!

 

[MrKleen73]

Wow. That trainer rented space in your head about your legs. You used it as a motivator! Nice work man!

Yeah she did. It doesn't help that right above my knee my quads look skinny then they sweep out higher up. I don't have that meaty blocky hang over the knee a lot of guys have. So 90% of my training shorts are so long you can't see where the size is. I just walk around with these tiny kneecaps hanging out of my shorts. LOL So what you get to see 90% of the time is what gets in your head. Now the tiny kneecaps are awesome because when you can see my sweep they make my legs look even bigger than they are. I consider myself to be lucky to have smaller joints and bone structure, but a large ribcage.

 

[PolishHamm3r77]

Yeah she did. It doesn't help that right above my knee my quads look skinny then they sweep out higher up. I don't have that meaty blocky hang over the knee a lot of guys have. So 90% of my training shorts are so long you can't see where the size is. I just walk around with these tiny kneecaps hanging out of my shorts. LOL So what you get to see 90% of the time is what gets in your head. Now the tiny kneecaps are awesome because when you can see my sweep they make my legs look even bigger than they are. I consider myself to be lucky to have smaller joints and bone structure, but a large ribcage.

That helps. I used to lift w a kid who had massive hands, shoulder/chest, tiny waste, tiny wrists. Great genetics. Had a Cardillo belt w “Genetic Freak” stitched into it. His older brother wrestled for WWE and he was jealous of his younger bros genetics

 

[Hyde]

It’s really a good thing your legs are ahead. That is what suffers the most in Masters bodybuilding, because you have to find ways to grow them around knees, backs, & hips that have some mileage. And the drugs proportionally help the smaller upper muscles more - it’s easier to drug your way to bigger delts than quads, so to speak. They will come up more just from the androgen exposure. You have to tolerate more suffering with smarter programming to bring up legs.

 

[Segansational]

Yeah, your legs right now aren't a weak point. And when you cut that'll show def improvement from your prior stage shots.

 

[MrKleen73]

That helps. I used to lift w a kid who had massive hands, shoulder/chest, tiny waste, tiny wrists. Great genetics. Had a Cardillo belt w “Genetic Freak” stitched into it. His older brother wrestled for WWE and he was jealous of his younger bros genetics

Yeah smaller joints are a huge benefit to aesthetics!

It’s really a good thing your legs are ahead. That is what suffers the most in Masters bodybuilding, because you have to find ways to grow them around knees, backs, & hips that have some mileage. And the drugs proportionally help the smaller upper muscles more - it’s easier to drug your way to bigger delts than quads, so to speak. They will come up more just from the androgen exposure. You have to tolerate more suffering with smarter programming to bring up legs.

Yeah, I am happy to hear it because I was trying to figure out how to blow up legs, chest, shoulder and arms at the same time and being able to focus more on upper is going to make a huge difference in how much volume I can put my upper body through.

Yeah, your legs right now aren't a weak point. And when you cut that'll show def improvement from your prior stage shots.

Thanks! I am going to start doing hamstrings first on my leg days for a while as I do feel I could have a little more hang to them. I also think they will come back quickly with that focus. When I was deadlifting and pushing RDL's regularly my hams were pretty impressive. So going to focus on a hinge and a curl of sorts first then do something very high SFR for quads like pendulum squats and the like. I think just prioritizing their placement will likely be enough to bring them back up to snuff. I will take some pics that show them later and you all can tell me if I am just in my head like I was with quads.

 

[MrKleen73]

10/1/23 - Morning Weight 201.2 - Carbs got back into the muscle a little here. I stayed with maintenance levels on calories to allow for more recovery on these recovery workout days.

Here are my final macros for yesterday.

Day 1 of Blast - Test E 250mg +7-8mg exemestane - Wednesday as long as my gear has arrived I will be down to 150mg Test E and adding in 100mg of Masteron in to drive more anabolism and help with estrogen management in hopes I can drop the AI completely. If not I will go with another 250mg of test and some exem. That is a pretty modest start at 500mgs a week, but I will most likely be working my way up over the first 8 weeks then hanging out in that top range the last 8 and possibly tossing in an oral at the end for a bigger final push. We will see where I am and how aggressive I feel I need to be.

Oh yeah lower body deload session last night went well. Great pumps with very low volume / effort, same intra-workout to help improve recovery with the pump.

Pendulum Squat x 2 work sets
BW Lunges x 2 work sets
SLDL - x 2 work sets
Hack Squat Calf Raise - 2 work sets
Decline Roll Ups - 3 sets - Did these like a sit up but more of a full range crunch rolling up through the abs one vertebrae at a time until fully contracted. Felt awesome!

 

[MrKleen73]

So Mike Isreatel just commented I need to get my pecs and delts as big as possible in the next 6 months, so now I know what I really need to focus on and set up my next meso to reflect the changes.

 

[rascal14]

I’ll be following along !

 

[BOSSMAN]

Nice work Kleen, stay focused and you will achieve your goals ️

 

[Dustin07]

Love what you're doing here, inspirational!

This is what I looked like 2 days before 7lbs heavier at 178 and dry as a bone... I had no business near a diuretic.... Can you imagine that with a few pounds of glycogen added?

What are you thinking stage weight might be this go around? somewhere similar?

 

[MrKleen73]

I’ll be following along !

Sweet!

Nice work Kleen, stay focused and you will achieve your goals ️

Thanks @BOSSMAN I just have to keep injuries at bay with a lot of attention to training, recovery, and a little luck! I am definitely excited and ready to roll!

10/2/23 - Morning Weight 200.2 - Kicking it in the same ranges, looks like the average is sliding down a little, I need to do some weight tracking to verify, but I am definitely getting leaner as I go.

Nutrition yesterday - I did a 24 hour fast and one large meal of extra meaty tuna casserole with 2 servings dehydrated fruit, and a glass of skim milk. If I were to guess I would put the macros for the feeding in the 80p, 15f, 180-200c range.

Mixed Cardio Yesterday - Elliptical 15 minute, Bike 12 minutes, Treadmill 15 minutes - total of 342 calories. I kept moving because the effort the movements were taking were getting hard enough to cut into recovery so I just moved to something easier to manage fatigue.

I am going to go ahead and fast again today since I am not lifting and only intend to take a walk at lunch which is not taxing just activity. I will probably have a good low fat high carb meal this evening to help get myself ready for some training in the morning. Something similar to what I had last night, if not the same meal.

Love what you're doing here, inspirational!



What are you thinking stage weight might be this go around? somewhere similar?

Thanks @Dustin07! Honestly that is one of the things I am looking at now. I need to get my height nailed down, I am right at 5"8, depending on the day, if I am in between 5'7-5'8 I can't be over 187 at weigh-ins, and if I am over 5'8 it makes a big jump to 194. The 187, I don't think I need to gain much size at all there, but the 194 I would want to add as much mass as possible to land as high as possible in that weight range. Really if I am in the 5'8-5'9 group it will come down to conditioning and aesthetics because I don't see myself growing enough to show up in contest shape at 194. Not without the addition of high doses of HGH which I simply can't afford.

That being said, I am about 5lbs heavier and 2% leaner than I was starting my prep in 09. I was in the 5% range in the mid 180's which is about right for a classic competition. This is what I looked like right around 185. So I think I should have a little more muscle than this now considering I am 5lbs heavier and 2% leaner than where I started that prep. If for some reason I just outgrow classic in the 5'7-5'8 I will move to Open or stretch my neck to fit in the 5'8 -5'9 group. LOL

 

[gphagan1]

Sweet!

Thanks @BOSSMAN I just have to keep injuries at bay with a lot of attention to training, recovery, and a little luck! I am definitely excited and ready to roll!

10/2/23 - Morning Weight 200.2 - Kicking it in the same ranges, looks like the average is sliding down a little, I need to do some weight tracking to verify, but I am definitely getting leaner as I go.

Nutrition yesterday - I did a 24 hour fast and one large meal of extra meaty tuna casserole with 2 servings dehydrated fruit, and a glass of skim milk. If I were to guess I would put the macros for the feeding in the 80p, 15f, 180-200c range.

Mixed Cardio Yesterday - Elliptical 15 minute, Bike 12 minutes, Treadmill 15 minutes - total of 342 calories. I kept moving because the effort the movements were taking were getting hard enough to cut into recovery so I just moved to something easier to manage fatigue.

I am going to go ahead and fast again today since I am not lifting and only intend to take a walk at lunch which is not taxing just activity. I will probably have a good low fat high carb meal this evening to help get myself ready for some training in the morning. Something similar to what I had last night, if not the same meal.


Thanks @Dustin07! Honestly that is one of the things I am looking at now. I need to get my height nailed down, I am right at 5"8, depending on the day, if I am in between 5'7-5'8 I can't be over 187 at weigh-ins, and if I am over 5'8 it makes a big jump to 194. The 187, I don't think I need to gain much size at all there, but the 194 I would want to add as much mass as possible to land as high as possible in that weight range. Really if I am in the 5'8-5'9 group it will come down to conditioning and aesthetics because I don't see myself growing enough to show up in contest shape at 194. Not without the addition of high doses of HGH which I simply can't afford.

That being said, I am about 5lbs heavier and 2% leaner than I was starting my prep in 09. I was in the 5% range in the mid 180's which is about right for a classic competition. This is what I looked like right around 185. So I think I should have a little more muscle than this now considering I am 5lbs heavier and 2% leaner than where I started that prep. If for some reason I just outgrow classic in the 5'7-5'8 I will move to Open or stretch my neck to fit in the 5'8 -5'9 group. LOL

View attachment 236424

That’s a really good build and look for you, at 185 in that picture. And when you get back to that, especially if you have added a little more muscle, you should definitely win in classic. The leanest I’ve ever been is 9% to 10%, and that was a lot of work. I couldn’t imagine hitting 5% to 6%….this is going to be a good log.

 

[MrKleen73]

That’s a really good build and look for you, at 185 in that picture. And when you get back to that, especially if you have added a little more muscle, you should definitely win in classic. The leanest I’ve ever been is 9% to 10%, and that was a lot of work. I couldn’t imagine hitting 5% to 6%….this is going to be a good log.

Thanks and I am thinking my chest should come back decently because it is definitely lagging from 4-5 years of not being able to be pushed due to shoulder injuries. That and genetically I just don't have huge pecs.

So, I have some good news, and then some great news. First the good news, I got my gear in last night, and was very excited to have that delivery! Now for the great news, there were 2 identical packages in my mailbox. Somebody accidentally double shipped my order. WooHoo!!! Now I will only need a couple more compounds for prep. Otherwise I am pretty solid on everything right now. Talk about a little bit of good luck there!

Yesterday's Nutrition - Was right about where I wanted it for calories. Providing a 1000-ish caloric deficit. Add in the activity and net calories were 1387 so about a 1300 calories deficit.
Activity Yesterday - 70 minute walk by the bayou.

10/3/23 - Morning Weight 200.2 - Hanging in this range, expecting a drop again sometime soon.

Since my gear came in and I made up for missing mast with test on the first shot, tomorrow I will just do 50mg Test and 200 Mast E to get things back on track for dosing. I also got some Eq, so trying to figure out where I want to add this in for a little more size. Considering 200 test, 200eq, 200mast. I realize there is a decent chance I have to donate running the EQ, but I think it might help with size. If I do that I will likely drop it out 4 weeks before the rest of the oils, and increase elsewhere, possibly even adding in an oral. Curious on what some of you who have run several cycles think here. My thought was that now (the next 5-6 months) is the time for me to do most of my growth and it will probably help a little more with that. Feel free to discuss options. I have plenty of Test, 20ml EQ300, and a ridiculous amount of mast e.

 

[Dustin07]

Sweet!

Thanks @BOSSMAN I just have to keep injuries at bay with a lot of attention to training, recovery, and a little luck! I am definitely excited and ready to roll!

10/2/23 - Morning Weight 200.2 - Kicking it in the same ranges, looks like the average is sliding down a little, I need to do some weight tracking to verify, but I am definitely getting leaner as I go.

Nutrition yesterday - I did a 24 hour fast and one large meal of extra meaty tuna casserole with 2 servings dehydrated fruit, and a glass of skim milk. If I were to guess I would put the macros for the feeding in the 80p, 15f, 180-200c range.

Mixed Cardio Yesterday - Elliptical 15 minute, Bike 12 minutes, Treadmill 15 minutes - total of 342 calories. I kept moving because the effort the movements were taking were getting hard enough to cut into recovery so I just moved to something easier to manage fatigue.

I am going to go ahead and fast again today since I am not lifting and only intend to take a walk at lunch which is not taxing just activity. I will probably have a good low fat high carb meal this evening to help get myself ready for some training in the morning. Something similar to what I had last night, if not the same meal.


Thanks @Dustin07! Honestly that is one of the things I am looking at now. I need to get my height nailed down, I am right at 5"8, depending on the day, if I am in between 5'7-5'8 I can't be over 187 at weigh-ins, and if I am over 5'8 it makes a big jump to 194. The 187, I don't think I need to gain much size at all there, but the 194 I would want to add as much mass as possible to land as high as possible in that weight range. Really if I am in the 5'8-5'9 group it will come down to conditioning and aesthetics because I don't see myself growing enough to show up in contest shape at 194. Not without the addition of high doses of HGH which I simply can't afford.

That being said, I am about 5lbs heavier and 2% leaner than I was starting my prep in 09. I was in the 5% range in the mid 180's which is about right for a classic competition. This is what I looked like right around 185. So I think I should have a little more muscle than this now considering I am 5lbs heavier and 2% leaner than where I started that prep. If for some reason I just outgrow classic in the 5'7-5'8 I will move to Open or stretch my neck to fit in the 5'8 -5'9 group. LOL

View attachment 236424

absolutely stacked dude. it's a hell of an accomplishment to hold that much mass at that weight. Best I ever did was like 8% at 176lbs, yes natty, but also an inch taller. With better nutrition I might have added a few lbs but it would have been a struggle.

your first comp pics you posted and mentioned not being fully filled out, but they looked great. Now looking at these side by side I see what you mean more clearly. Your target weights definitely seem achievable for your build. especially when you're holding like 60lbs of lean mass in the biceps alone.

 

[MrKleen73]

absolutely stacked dude. it's a hell of an accomplishment to hold that much mass at that weight. Best I ever did was like 8% at 176lbs, yes natty, but also an inch taller. With better nutrition I might have added a few lbs but it would have been a struggle.

your first comp pics you posted and mentioned not being fully filled out, but they looked great. Now looking at these side by side I see what you mean more clearly. Your target weights definitely seem achievable for your build. especially when you're holding like 60lbs of lean mass in the biceps alone.

Thanks, I am really excited about this and curious to see what I can bring to the stage not being natty, If I can get down to the condition I was a week out, but be full and around 185-187 I should look unreal. LMAO at 60lbs of biceps, while I am still trying to get them to grow! They have great peaks but I would like them to look a little more bulbous when down at my sides. My arms are surprisingly long for my height so I have a lot of arm to fill out when the biceps is relaxed.

 

[Dustin07]

bulbous

will you lean heavily on seated curls for the bulge?
I need to find time to prioritize those, as well as my "20 set" days again. by far the most progress I've ever seen in my life was when I started focusing on 20 set days for biceps but it's really hard to fit that much time in for a movement that's a bit... mind numbing after a few sets.

 

[MrKleen73]

will you lean heavily on seated curls for the bulge?
I need to find time to prioritize those, as well as my "20 set" days again. by far the most progress I've ever seen in my life was when I started focusing on 20 set days for biceps but it's really hard to fit that much time in for a movement that's a bit... mind numbing after a few sets.

It really comes down to adding more size to get that. I will just make sure my exercise selection hits the shortened position, the stretched position, and a hammer or pinwheel curl in each week for the brachialis to give the biceps some width. Get my size up as much as possible. My arm already bulges up off of my elbow so I may also be in search of a look I can't achieve based on my insertions and muscle bellies too. I am not adding or removing volume from my arm training, but am cutting down volume on back and quads to allow more room for progress with my pecs and shoulders.

I was going to mention to you that those 20 set days were great but a lot of the initial size comes from cell swelling effect, but the cell swelling also signals for hypertrophy more. So although your arms may have responded really well then lost some of it you are likely still bigger than you would have been without them.

I will actually be doing some cell swelling work on my medial and rear delts on any day they are not already being trained.

 

[Dustin07]

I was going to mention to you that those 20 set days were great but a lot of the initial size comes from cell swelling effect, but the cell swelling also signals for hypertrophy more. So although your arms may have responded really well then lost some of it you are likely still bigger than you would have been without them.

yeah I 100% think the big set days gave me good long term results. I did not measure before/afters but I've read Rich Pianas arms day articles a hundred times, as well as reviews from other guys that have done it. Everyone always says the same thing essentially. "I gained X inches in 1 day! after a week yes, it's 80 or 90% gone, but there is still that 10%+ that stayed permanently and that's more than I would have normally made" Even though I didn't measure, the tell tale signs are there. I always, my entire life had a simple goal. I hate when my sleeves fit the arms like a dress. I like athletic form fitting in the shoulder, chest and arms. and this year my sleeves are still tight on basically all my shirts, crazy tight on golf polos. I'm not currently on A XT, A Effect or Phosphatidic XT so the current muscle firmness and size that's still hanging on I can only assume is the result of this years work/progress...? also makes me think that if I put together that stack I had this past spring/summer again for a winter run the results would be scary good.

 

[gphagan1]

Thanks and I am thinking my chest should come back decently because it is definitely lagging from 4-5 years of not being able to be pushed due to shoulder injuries. That and genetically I just don't have huge pecs.

So, I have some good news, and then some great news. First the good news, I got my gear in last night, and was very excited to have that delivery! Now for the great news, there were 2 identical packages in my mailbox. Somebody accidentally double shipped my order. WooHoo!!! Now I will only need a couple more compounds for prep. Otherwise I am pretty solid on everything right now. Talk about a little bit of good luck there!

Yesterday's Nutrition - Was right about where I wanted it for calories. Providing a 1000-ish caloric deficit. Add in the activity and net calories were 1387 so about a 1300 calories deficit.
Activity Yesterday - 70 minute walk by the bayou.

View attachment 236488

10/3/23 - Morning Weight 200.2 - Hanging in this range, expecting a drop again sometime soon.

Since my gear came in and I made up for missing mast with test on the first shot, tomorrow I will just do 50mg Test and 200 Mast E to get things back on track for dosing. I also got some Eq, so trying to figure out where I want to add this in for a little more size. Considering 200 test, 200eq, 200mast. I realize there is a decent chance I have to donate running the EQ, but I think it might help with size. If I do that I will likely drop it out 4 weeks before the rest of the oils, and increase elsewhere, possibly even adding in an oral. Curious on what some of you who have run several cycles think here. My thought was that now (the next 5-6 months) is the time for me to do most of my growth and it will probably help a little more with that. Feel free to discuss options. I have plenty of Test, 20ml EQ300, and a ridiculous amount of mast e.

Man looks like Christmas came early with the extra gear. I’ve only ran EQ a couple of times, a long time ago, one was with Test and Mast, and the other Test with NPP, and both were bulk cycles. It definitely helped pack on the size, probably more size with the NPP, but the second time I ran it, it jacked my hemoglobin and hematocrit way up and even though I gave blood I cut it short. But sounds like you have a good plan with doing a build or bulk phase the next 5-6 months, and starting low on your Test, Mast, and EQ, and increase when you feel the need. One thing a can say with EQ it had me wanting to stay at the gym, and for me I liked the synergy between that and Mast, and you won’t need an AI for sure.

 

[MrKleen73]

Man looks like Christmas came early with the extra gear. I’ve only ran EQ a couple of times, a long time ago, one was with Test and Mast, and the other Test with NPP, and both were bulk cycles. It definitely helped pack on the size, probably more size with the NPP, but the second time I ran it, it jacked my hemoglobin and hematocrit way up and even though I gave blood I cut it short. But sounds like you have a good plan with doing a build or bulk phase the next 5-6 months, and starting low on your Test, Mast, and EQ, and increase when you feel the need. One thing a can say with EQ it had me wanting to stay at the gym, and for me I liked the synergy between that and Mast, and you won’t need an AI for sure.

Yeah after taking a few of the Broderick Chavez courses on TeamEvilGSP site I have a little better understanding of how he might run things. The way he explains EQ is basically Test with half the sides, but increases in HCT levels and slightly more anabolic than test. His recommendation if actually replacing testosterone with EQ is to run it at twice the TRT dose to get the same estrogen responses. Since I am running Test, and only removed 100mg of test that would be an additional 200mg EQ to supply the rest of my estrogen. Then increases would mostly be from Masteron unless I needed more estrogen then a little more Test or EQ. I will definitely keep an eye on things.

Now for when to stop the EQ, part of me is like stop it a month early, so it will be more out of my system during my TRT/Cruise period next year when I have to go do some bloodwork at the Dr's. The other part of me is like stop it with everything and it will help keep me anabolic through my TRT dose during the down time while not registering as testosterone so my t levels won't be too far off. Keep in mind that I am all in on this competition and although I want to keep it relatively safe, I want to push things more than I normally would due to the contest. Which very well might be my last unless I place and end up at Nationals.

 

[MrKleen73]

Man looks like Christmas came early with the extra gear. I’ve only ran EQ a couple of times, a long time ago, one was with Test and Mast, and the other Test with NPP, and both were bulk cycles. It definitely helped pack on the size, probably more size with the NPP, but the second time I ran it, it jacked my hemoglobin and hematocrit way up and even though I gave blood I cut it short. But sounds like you have a good plan with doing a build or bulk phase the next 5-6 months, and starting low on your Test, Mast, and EQ, and increase when you feel the need. One thing a can say with EQ it had me wanting to stay at the gym, and for me I liked the synergy between that and Mast, and you won’t need an AI for sure.

@gphagan1 what were your doses on the Test/EQ/Mast starting and finishing if you remember, and at what point did you pull out the EQ?

 

[gphagan1]

@gphagan1 what were your doses on the Test/EQ/Mast starting and finishing if you remember, and at what point did you pull out the EQ?

The first time, I ran Test at 300, Mast at 300, and EQ at 200, around I think week 5 increased Mast to 400 and EQ to 400, and was really seeing strength increases. I just stayed at those doses for the rest of the 16 weeks (Test 300, Mast 400, EQ 400). That one was a long time ago, but I had cut down to 208 at 10% body fat and that was the bulk cycle I ran coming out of that cut. I didn’t want to gain too much fat so I kept my diet fairly clean. At the end of 16 weeks I was 230 at 15% body fat, still had abs but just not as ripped, and truthfully I liked the 230 look better. So 22 lbs gain with 5% body fat increase in 4 months. So I guess technically an 8.3 lbs lean mass gain. I know it’s not earth shattering, but that’s when I was 39 and into working out heavy and arm wrestling, so that was good for what my goals were. The second cycle with NPP, Test and Mast was probably 7 to 8 years later and I had just started back 3 months earlier from a 5 year layoff after a pec and shoulder injury,
(I know, no excuse for it to have been 5 years off), but I came back after getting up to 260 and cut down to 215 in 12 weeks natural, ha no juice. So that was my comeback cycle with Test at 250 NPP at 300 and EQ 200 for a bulk. I tried to stay clean on that one too. After 6 weeks increased NPP to 400, Mast 400 and kept Test at 250…everything was going great, had put on 25 lbs by week 10, but started having blood pressure issues that I couldn’t get down with even Lisinopril (I recommend Telmisartan now). At 12 weeks I got my blood work done, can’t remember hemoglobin, but hematocrit was 65.2 so I just pulled the plug and gave blood, but about a month later got injured again, same shoulder, and was out for another 5-6 years, I know shamefully. I think I was 52 when I started back. I really wish I hadn’t used the injury excuse and missed those years in my Forties. I probably gave you more information than you wanted, but just wanted you to know the circumstances because everyone and their situation is different.

 

[Hyde]

200 each test/eq/mast sounds dry AF. You may be good on that, but you may find it too dry - you’ll have to see how you respond to EQ.

I cruised 120/120 test/EQ once and by week 7 I remember it was bugging my gyno BUT I also had dry achey joints, and blood was way too thick for a cruise. I did have good stamina then and training seemed to be going awesome for a cruise.

Just be ready to adjust doses or drop things if you need to.

 

[Mikereyn513]

In for this I'm running test/eq/ mast/ with just one shot of deca a week for joints( 300 mg) I'll be ysinf test and eq to drive anabolism. Dr todd likes to use mast to drive anabolism and as much as I love mast i don't know if I would necessarily use it for that purpose

 

[Mikereyn513]

Legs and back loom great btw so you already got a good head start

 

[MrKleen73]

200 each test/eq/mast sounds dry AF. You may be good on that, but you may find it too dry - you’ll have to see how you respond to EQ.

I cruised 120/120 test/EQ once and by week 7 I remember it was bugging my gyno BUT I also had dry achey joints, and blood was way too thick for a cruise. I did have good stamina then and training seemed to be going awesome for a cruise.

Just be ready to adjust doses or drop things if you need to.

Yeah, I was thinking about that as well. I think I might just stick with the masteron and plan to use the EQ later when not pushing things as hard. Minimize the risk of increasing sides which is why I went with mast in the first place.

In for this I'm running test/eq/ mast/ with just one shot of deca a week for joints( 300 mg) I'll be ysinf test and eq to drive anabolism. Dr todd likes to use mast to drive anabolism and as much as I love mast i don't know if I would necessarily use it for that purpose

Yeah, I have been learning more on Broderick Chavez's site. He says most of them will grow exactly the same amount of muscle tissue, but the different compounds affect muscle volume a lot differently. So more weight is gained with the non DHT anabolics but same amount of actual muscle. So I can see why Dr Todd might go with that. Honestly though I am just learning more in depth about this stuff now. I don't have tons of cycle experience like a lot of guys who have been around as long as me.

Legs and back loom great btw so you already got a good head start

Thanks Man!

 

[ELROCK]

Following brother

 

[Mikereyn513]

FWIW..this off-season will be 1000mg test. 600eq, 400 mast e for a nice even 2 gram load. May throw in additional 300 deca, I know a lot of pros prefer npp but it's obviously a lot cheaper to do 1 shot of deca per week than 3 shots of npp and I don't get any negative mental issues with deca so I will stick with that. I emailed Dr todd and he replied that that idea was gtg

 

[Hyde]

FWIW..this off-season will be 1000mg test. 600eq, 400 mast e for a nice even 2 gram load. May throw in additional 300 deca, I know a lot of pros prefer npp but it's obviously a lot cheaper to do 1 shot of deca per week than 3 shots of npp and I don't get any negative mental issues with deca so I will stick with that. I emailed Dr todd and he replied that that idea was gtg

300mg deca will absolutely contribute strongly to the anabolism of that stack. It’s not “just for joints”; you should expect a nice boost having it on board.

You need to weigh all variables about compound selection. Dr. Todd does what he does because it suits his goals for best money, lowest sides, reliability of his gear, etc. You need to do the same, which is why he didn’t argue with you about your plan.

The general idea is all of the traditional compounds are similarly anabolic per mg from a protein accretion standpoint, BUT (same as Todd & Chavez would acknowledge) there are other properties to each that suit some needs better than others.

Nandrolone, for example, often seems a bit stronger in total anabolism per mg than test, eq, mast, primo, because of what else it does - increases aromatization of testosterone to estrogen (which is itself anabolic), as well as converting on its own somewhat to estrogen, as well as acting on the PR in addition to the AR. So you get AR, PR, & ER mediation in one compound, increased fluid retention that improves leverage to lift heavier PLUS the joint padding to do so - which can roundabout lead to more gains.

EQ provides the greatest collagen synthesis, as well as thickened blood which can enhance endurance if it’s kept to a reasonable level. Faster recovering joints & more stamina can mean - you guessed it - better training & therefore more gains.

Mast can drive neurology, enhancing strength, while reducing bloat from compounds like test and deca which can help keep the athlete feeling better in training. More strength, feeling better - better lifting and more roundabout gains.

This is already too long winded, but you get the idea - all the tools may have some application, but it’s just about finding what fits best with your needs, responses, & preferences. Like the training you do, all of your compounds should have a personally significant reason in your cycle. Not just, “Tren is strong so I figured I should add that in”.

 

[gphagan1]

300mg deca will absolutely contribute strongly to the anabolism of that stack. It’s not “just for joints”; you should expect a nice boost having it on board.

You need to weigh all variables about compound selection. Dr. Todd does what he does because it suits his goals for best money, lowest sides, reliability of his gear, etc. You need to do the same, which is why he didn’t argue with you about your plan.

The general idea is all of the traditional compounds are similarly anabolic per mg from a protein accretion standpoint, BUT (same as Todd & Chavez would acknowledge) there are other properties to each that suit some needs better than others.

Nandrolone, for example, often seems a bit stronger in total anabolism per mg than test, eq, mast, primo, because of what else it does - increases aromatization of testosterone to estrogen (which is itself anabolic), as well as converting on its own somewhat to estrogen, as well as acting on the PR in addition to the AR. So you get AR, PR, & ER mediation in one compound, increased fluid retention that improves leverage to lift heavier PLUS the joint padding to do so - which can roundabout lead to more gains.

EQ provides the greatest collagen synthesis, as well as thickened blood which can enhance endurance if it’s kept to a reasonable level. Faster recovering joints & more stamina can mean - you guessed it - better training & therefore more gains.

Mast can drive neurology, enhancing strength, while reducing bloat from compounds like test and deca which can help keep the athlete feeling better in training. More strength, feeling better - better lifting and more roundabout gains.

This is already too long winded, but you get the idea - all the tools may have some application, but it’s just about finding what fits best with your needs, responses, & preferences. Like the training you do, all of your compounds should have a personally significant reason in your cycle. Not just, “Tren is strong so I figured I should add that in”.

Very good description of the compounds and their benefits.

 

[gphagan1]

FWIW..this off-season will be 1000mg test. 600eq, 400 mast e for a nice even 2 gram load. May throw in additional 300 deca, I know a lot of pros prefer npp but it's obviously a lot cheaper to do 1 shot of deca per week than 3 shots of npp and I don't get any negative mental issues with deca so I will stick with that. I emailed Dr todd and he replied that that idea was gtg

You should log that beast of a cycle or definitely keep us posted.

 

[Mikereyn513]

300mg deca will absolutely contribute strongly to the anabolism of that stack. It’s not “just for joints”; you should expect a nice boost having it on board.

You need to weigh all variables about compound selection. Dr. Todd does what he does because it suits his goals for best money, lowest sides, reliability of his gear, etc. You need to do the same, which is why he didn’t argue with you about your plan.

The general idea is all of the traditional compounds are similarly anabolic per mg from a protein accretion standpoint, BUT (same as Todd & Chavez would acknowledge) there are other properties to each that suit some needs better than others.

Nandrolone, for example, often seems a bit stronger in total anabolism per mg than test, eq, mast, primo, because of what else it does - increases aromatization of testosterone to estrogen (which is itself anabolic), as well as converting on its own somewhat to estrogen, as well as acting on the PR in addition to the AR. So you get AR, PR, & ER mediation in one compound, increased fluid retention that improves leverage to lift heavier PLUS the joint padding to do so - which can roundabout lead to more gains.

EQ provides the greatest collagen synthesis, as well as thickened blood which can enhance endurance if it’s kept to a reasonable level. Faster recovering joints & more stamina can mean - you guessed it - better training & therefore more gains.

Mast can drive neurology, enhancing strength, while reducing bloat from compounds like test and deca which can help keep the athlete feeling better in training. More strength, feeling better - better lifting and more roundabout gains.

This is already too long winded, but you get the idea - all the tools may have some application, but it’s just about finding what fits best with your needs, responses, & preferences. Like the training you do, all of your compounds should have a personally significant reason in your cycle. Not just, “Tren is strong so I figured I should add that in”.

Totally agree with all of this.was hoping to get some anabolism with that deca dose. Mu body responds so well to test most and eq that's why I chose this particular combo not just because it's a pro off season cycle.

 

[Mikereyn513]

You should log that beast of a cycle or definitely keep us posted.

I'll keep you guys posted like I always do either here or over in @Smont Log. Figure my body is ready for a nice off season blast especially scince the cut went so well over the summer