How to "pulse" orals

[DR.D]

Hi Dr. D

My workout program incorporates a cyclic training method. Each cycle last for 20 days and I train 8 times out of that 20 days. After reading your pulsing method, I think this would suit perfectly well for my workout program.

I'm thinking of trying out to pulse Havoc and combine it with 6-OXO Extreme during off days, I chose 6-OXO Extreme, because it has trans-reservatrol which I heard is some kind of a SERM, just for extra insurance.

I plan on using 1 bottle of Havoc (90 Caps) and 2 bottles of 6-OXO Extreme (150 caps). This is how I plan my cycle, please give your critique ...

It looks very safe. I think you'll have great strength gains with minimal sides. Havoc causes shutdown pretty fast, but I have never pulsed it, so I can't make you any promises, but your off days look like they'll make up for it well.

 

[DR.D]

Hey Doc, (or anyone that can help)

I have some Ergo 1-ad & 4-ad sitting around that I've been waiting to take. Just curious if they'd be good for the idea of pulsing. If so, what would you recommend for doseing.

Thanks

Yes, you can pulse non-methyls too. I have done it in the past with 4AD and 19nordiol and it worked very well. I was able to squeeze in 3 doses (1 pre and 2 post) to simulate the pharmakenetics of 2 standard doses of a methyl. Take a dose 1 hr pre, immediately post, and again a few hours after that if you like. 200-300mg total for each dose is a good starting point.

 

[Solitude]

It looks very safe. I think you'll have great strength gains with minimal sides. Havoc causes shutdown pretty fast, but I have never pulsed it, so I can't make you any promises, but your off days look like they'll make up for it well.

Hi Dr. D

Good to see you back here again and thank you very much for your reply.

I'm thinking of dropping the 6-oxo extreme to 2 caps (120 mg of 6-oxo) a day only rather than 4 or 5 caps, would that be sufficient in your opinon?

 

[DR.D]

Lots of excellent info guys. A few Q's though.
Will pulse a superdrol clone 3x/week (never done a cycle before).

superdrol pre WO - how long before WO and with food/Shake?
superdrol post WO - Should it be taken with my post WO shake( whey, carbs) or with my post WO meal an hour after WO?

Will be taking Retain and an AI on off days but I've also got some hyperdrol left from my mass fx cycle, would it be good to take 2 caps in the morning eveyday throughout the cycle?

Any info would be great.

I like to give it at least 30minutes pre and not more than 1 hr post, but sooner if possible. A Superdrol pulse is great for the first timer.

I think the 2 caps in the morning is a great plan for Retain but the HD should be taken at night.

 

[DR.D]

Would it still be effective to only pulse 2x week? That is on top of cycling natural test boosters such as Hyperdrol or Diesel Test.

I’m really liking the concept nice steady slow gains with less toxicity and sides.
In addition to the question on 2x week pulsing while cycling test boosters. What about a 3day per week split but broken up as follows.

2on
2off
1on
2off

Thanks for any input,
Kabuki

Yes, if running a test booster, there is no minimum for pulsing days. The peak of the curve is 3-4 days/wk but even 1-2 is fine if used to augment a test booster. This is actually the ideal plan, running a good strong booster and supplementing workouts only with a methyl. Good strategy my friend!

 

[DR.D]

Lol, I mean... Train like you would normally... or should you train like you're "on"?

Yes, pretty much go for it, because you really are "on" at just the right times. Of course, it all depends on how many times per week you lift, but intensity is fairly static in my experience and an anti-cort on off days will pick up the slack well. Recovery is almost always plus or minus a day depending.

BTW, love the sig brother! :thumbsup:

 

[neoborn]

D! heyyyyyyyyyy it good to see you back! Read your pm's Also is there a list of test boosters you recommend ( quality / quantity etc )?

Thanks and much love,

We miss you

Neoborn

 

[DR.D]

i would hit phera preworkout,and superdrol post..

Had good results both ways. I would do the more androgenic supp pre-w/o 90% of the time, but the endurance on SD is so good it's suitable for pre as well. SD is just a good all-purpose compound. Mix and match till you find the best combo.

 

[DR.D]

For the past 2 weeks I have been using the Pulse protocol for dosing on a Havoc cycle. For some reason I can't dose above 10mg without my day off being nasty. (heavy sweat, body-temp changes ect).
I dosed up to 30 too quickly and these symptoms came on, so I took it back down to 10mg for a few days and then dosed 20mg around the beginning of week 2 getting the same symptoms.
My questions are: First, is it even useful dosing at 10mg using pulse protocol? Second, Should I switch to a regular ED dose, or should I just continue on as schedule and move up to 20mg if I can?
(already posted this, but figured this would be a better location)

20 is better than nothing, but that would really require daily doses to see much I think. It's worth a shot pulsing though.

 

[DR.D]

What do you guys think about pulsing clen? With benadryl/ketofin you could maybe extend your clen cycle 4wks? 6wks?

Gotta do it in 1-2 wk pulses (2 wks on then 2wks off) or take the keto after the first 2 wks. Half-life is way too long for a standard daily pulse system.

 

[DR.D]

Great response Neoborn!!

I'd rep if it would let me.

I'd rep both you guys for keeping good responses going here, if it would let me. Sorry I was gone so long, been working, but you guys got some good supps around the corner at least! :thumbsup:

 

[DR.D]

Hi Dr. D

Good to see you back here again and thank you very much for your reply.

I'm thinking of dropping the 6-oxo extreme to 2 caps (120 mg of 6-oxo) a day only rather than 4 or 5 caps, would that be sufficient in your opinon?

Yes, sounds fine. It shouldn't take much if your not cheating too bad. If you were pushing the curve (like 4-5 days/wk on) or using something highly suppressive like M1T, then maybe the full dose would be more appropriate, but don't forget you'll be getting a natural bounce if you do it right so half doses are generally "sufficient" just to insure maintenance of test levels.

 

[DR.D]

D! heyyyyyyyyyy it good to see you back! Read your pm's Also is there a list of test boosters you recommend ( quality / quantity etc )?

Thanks and much love,

We miss you

Neoborn

Hey bud! May take all w/e, but I will get to them I promise.

 

[Solitude]

Yes, sounds fine. It shouldn't take much if your not cheating too bad. If you were pushing the curve (like 4-5 days/wk on) or using something highly suppressive like M1T, then maybe the full dose would be more appropriate, but don't forget you'll be getting a natural bounce if you do it right so half doses are generally "sufficient" just to insure maintenance of test levels.

Thank you again, your input is much appreciated!

 

[Dalamara]

Okay I think I've almost got my cycle ready to go.

I know, I know, you pulse to avoid most of the PCT, but I just want to be completely safe and I want to have the best chance at keeping all my gains, so would the following PCT be good?

Tamoxifen citrate, Retain, and Jungle Warfare.

What doses would you recommend on the Tamoxifen? Would 20mg a day for two weeks be sufficient after a 6 week pulse of Epidrol? Or should I stick to a normal 40/40/20/20 with the SERM?

Also how long would you recommend me running the retain and JW? I was thinking 3-4 weeks would be plenty.

Oh, and one last question, what is a safe amount of time I should wait before starting another cycle? Thanks for your help and patience guys.

 

[doluseb]

Okay I think I've almost got my cycle ready to go.

I know, I know, you pulse to avoid most of the post cycle therapy, but I just want to be completely safe and I want to have the best chance at keeping all my gains, so would the following PCT be good?

Tamoxifen citrate, Retain, and Jungle Warfare.

What doses would you recommend on the Tamoxifen? Would 20mg a day for two weeks be sufficient after a 6 week pulse of Epidrol? Or should I stick to a normal 40/40/20/20 with the SERM?

Also how long would you recommend me running the retain and JW? I was thinking 3-4 weeks would be plenty.

Oh, and one last question, what is a safe amount of time I should wait before starting another cycle? Thanks for your help and patience guys.

JW is suppressive, so drop it from pct. Other than that you're lookin good.
Give your body a good bit of time to reset. The "general" rule is time on + pct = time off.

 

[Dalamara]

JW is suppressive, so drop it from post cycle therapy. Other than that you're lookin good.
Give your body a good bit of time to reset. The "general" rule is time on + post cycle therapy = time off.

JW is suppressive? I was under the impression that it was a pretty good "natural"(non-steroidal) test booster.

 

[EasyEJL]

JW is moreso questionable as to being suppressive or not, rather than being able to state its truly suppressive. there have been many long running conversations about it. The same can be said for 6-bromo products too, that there is the possibility of suppression based on its chemical profiles. Note that it is just that, the chemical structures present theoretically are related closely enough to other chemicals that do suppress, that it is possible that JW and/or 6 bromo do suppress.

Given how little real statistically significant data is available on most of these items either way, its up to you. If you are only doing a 6 week pulse, and staying at 30mg of epi, I would think the suppression risk level of adding the JW is very low, and taking it will likely help extend gains. You can look at some of the blood tests for JW that are floating around, it doesn't look to be significantly suppressive. I haven't seen anyone yet suggest you need to take tamoxifen citrate after a full cycle on JW and there are people doing relatively long as well as relatively high doses of it.

 

[doluseb]

JW is moreso questionable as to being suppressive or not, rather than being able to state its truly suppressive. there have been many long running conversations about it. The same can be said for 6-bromo products too, that there is the possibility of suppression based on its chemical profiles. Note that it is just that, the chemical structures present theoretically are related closely enough to other chemicals that do suppress, that it is possible that JW and/or 6 bromo do suppress.

Given how little real statistically significant data is available on most of these items either way, its up to you. If you are only doing a 6 week pulse, and staying at 30mg of epi, I would think the suppression risk level of adding the JW is very low, and taking it will likely help extend gains. You can look at some of the blood tests for JW that are floating around, it doesn't look to be significantly suppressive. I haven't seen anyone yet suggest you need to take tamoxifen citrate after a full cycle on JW and there are people doing relatively long as well as relatively high doses of it.

JW has been confirmed to contain 6-dmt. It IS suppressive. No point to pct with a steroid after a steroid cycle.

 

[xtraflossy]

JW has been confirmed to contain 6-dmt. It IS suppressive. No point to post cycle therapy with a steroid after a steroid cycle.

Can you point to where this was confirmed?
(Hopefully it also shows that the suppression 6-dmt outways the test elevation from the AI effect.. )

... I loved me some JW:whiner:

 

[Solitude]

Can you point to where this was confirmed?
(Hopefully it also shows that the suppression 6-dmt outways the test elevation from the AI effect.. )

... I loved me some JW:whiner:

Bodybuilding.com Forums - View Single Post - ADED in jw? is there any conclusive results as to what this is?



And here are some other lengthy threads discussing JW, a guy with a nick of spaceclown, had a pretty severe suppression.

Jungle Warfare Cannot cause Gyno- ALR - Bodybuilding.com Forums

Newsarticle in Dutch Sport and Fitness: Jungle Warfare contains... - Bodybuilding.com Forums

 

[xtraflossy]

Bodybuilding.com Forums - View Single Post - ADED in jw? is there any conclusive results as to what this is?

This one doesn't PROVE anything. There is no evidence, instead, it looks as if the marketing of the product was in question. I guess had it been marketed like 11-oxo, where a lower dose = AI effects,.. but in higher doses is anabolic there wouldn't be any issues? ...I'm not defending JW. But I think the END RESULT is if you take a high enough dose of many, many products out there, you will get some degree of supression after a while (ex: anything that frees up test. hell,I felt slightly, slightly supressed after MASSFX - of course, if it wasn't the free'd test, then it was the spiro. But I can also feel a degree of suppression after taking some Test mimicers... I think any AR activation above the baseline will eventually lead to the body lowering production of it's natty AR actionvation methoeds, until that baseline is again met... how long this takes would depend)

And here are some other lengthy threads discussing JW, a guy with a nick of spaceclown, had a pretty severe suppression.

No doubt that there are some people out there that will be really sensitive to certin things.

Jungle Warfare Cannot cause Gyno- ALR - Bodybuilding.com Forums

Ummm,... I guess how many reports of gyno have there been on Trib, Powerfull, NHA stack....
I'm NOT dismissing anything here, I'm just pointing out, that gyno is the crying wolf on these bordes, and that you really need to understand that takign anything hormonal has to potential to grow ya some titties :whiner:

Newsarticle in Dutch Sport and Fitness: Jungle Warfare contains... - Bodybuilding.com Forums

from that page:
"What most likely happened is they found "isomers" that relate to steroids(just as PA and others were saying). I dont know if that 100% guarentees that users would see dbol like effects from an isomer of dbol...could/should be completely different."
The nthey go as far as to say that someone was tested while on JW and they did not test possitive to d-bol. So, ...


Ya know,.. I think the only reason I replied here, was to point out some thing...
JW has something in it to free up test. If it had NO 6-bromo I would expect a small degree of suppression from that alone given my dosing and length of time I take it.

11-oxo, is ACEPTED as being a cort blocker at lower doses, and anabolic at higher doses. ... Ok, fine. If JW did the same thing, then they failed to mention it, and we dont know what that dose actually is, .. but then again, in theory, it still does act a an AI at lower doses.. We were just missinformed, using to high a dose, taking too many, were lied to,...
But to come out and just say it's supressive flat out, is somehow missleading (although I wouldn't like "It CAN be suppressive" either or, "at certin doses it is, but we don't know what those are".

Epi was also going to be released as an AI as well (least marketed as one)...

Given ALL this, you also have the DHEA thing in PCT. To take it, or not to take it. Many use it religiously.

I guess there are many people who get JW for THE RESULTS. Not so much "I need an AI for PCT". In that case, I see it no different then many other supps out there now. Where's the big deal? (aside from marketing maybe)... your taking something that (among other things) activates the AR-

If you ARE using it for PCT, then weigh your options. But if your taking anything like MASSFX, NHA stack and DHEA ..then in principle, it's no different if you decide t ogo with JW



Just some food for thought. (crap that seem slike a really long response )

 

[ChuckBooty]

OK....critique this if ya don't mind:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/ibe-nutrition/71071-planning-epi-x.html


Pulse days will be Mon, Wed, Fri, Sat
Weeks 1 and 2 30 / 30 / 30 / 30
HDX2 on OFF days (2 caps in the AM on empty stomach)

Week 3 will be off (recovery week, I have an event planned where I may be drinking anyway)

Week 4 and 5 - 30 / 30 / 30 / 30

Week 6 post cycle therapy - 20mg nolva, 10mg epi (ED), liver support (TBD)
Week 7 post cycle therapy - 10mg nolva, HDX2, liver support (TBD)

X-Lean will be ran straight through


EDIT: running HDX2 on the off days...not retain 2 (already taking X-Lean straight through)

Thanks in advance!

 

[Solitude]

This one doesn't PROVE anything. There is no evidence, instead, it looks as if the marketing of the product was in question. I guess had it been marketed like 11-oxo, where a lower dose = AI effects,.. but in higher doses is anabolic there wouldn't be any issues? ...I'm not defending JW. But I think the END RESULT is if you take a high enough dose of many, many products out there, you will get some degree of supression after a while (ex: anything that frees up test. hell,I felt slightly, slightly supressed after MASSFX - of course, if it wasn't the free'd test, then it was the spiro. But I can also feel a degree of suppression after taking some Test mimicers... I think any AR activation above the baseline will eventually lead to the body lowering production of it's natty AR actionvation methoeds, until that baseline is again met... how long this takes would depend)



No doubt that there are some people out there that will be really sensitive to certin things.


Ummm,... I guess how many reports of gyno have there been on Trib, Powerfull, NHA stack....
I'm NOT dismissing anything here, I'm just pointing out, that gyno is the crying wolf on these bordes, and that you really need to understand that takign anything hormonal has to potential to grow ya some titties :whiner:


Newsarticle in Dutch Sport and Fitness: Jungle Warfare contains... - Bodybuilding.com Forums


Ya know,.. I think the only reason I replied here, was to point out some thing...
JW has something in it to free up test. If it had NO 6-bromo Iwould expect a small degree of suppression from tha talone given my dosing and length of time I take it.

11-oxo, is ACEPTED as being a cort blocker at lower doses, and anabolic at higher doses. ... Ok, fine.

Epi was also going to be released as an AI as well (least marketed as one)...

Just some food for thought.

Don't get upset with me bro.

I was just pointing you directions to the threads where they have discussed this sort of things, which I hope could help you to find the answers that you're looking for. I'm sorry if its not much help, I'm not trying to misled you or to stir up any drama around here.

I have nothing against JW myself, and I think its a great product that has a lot potential.

 

[xtraflossy]

Don't get upset with me bro.

I was just pointing you directions to the threads where they have discussed this sort of things, which I hope could help you to find the answers that you're looking for. I'm sorry if its not much help, I'm not trying to misled you or to stir up any drama around here.

I have nothing against JW myself, and I think its a great product that has a lot potential.

lol- I wasn't gettign testy

I have been editing that post for like an hour now (I'm at work, so it's off and on).

I guess I wanted to put it in perspactive...
I love some JW too :twisted:

 

[Solitude]

lol- I wasn't gettign testy

I have been editing that post for like an hour now (I'm at work, so it's off and on).

I guess I wanted to put it in perspactive...
I love some JW too :twisted:

LOL!

I see, I misunderstood your message, my bad.

 

[That One Guy]

Dr. D, I just started my first ever cycle! And when i read about your pulse method, i knew that way had to be the way that i would do it.

But this is how my cycle looks.

3 day a week SD cycle w/ Hyperdrol throughout the whole cycle
Week 1:20mg+4caps HX2
Week 2:30mg+4caps HX2
Week 3:40mg+4caps HX2
Week 4:40mg (or higher depending on how i feel)+4caps HX2

Weeks 5-8: 4caps HX2+ Retain 2

OR

Weeks 5-6:40mg(or higher depending on how i feel)+4capsHX2
Weeks 7-10:6-oxo (for a mild pct)

So how does it look?

 

[xtraflossy]

Dr. D, I just started my first ever cycle! And when i read about your pulse method, i knew that way had to be the way that i would do it.

But this is how my cycle looks.

3 day a week superdrol cycle w/ Hyperdrol throughout the whole cycle
Week 1:20mg+4caps HX2
Week 2:30mg+4caps HX2
Week 3:40mg+4caps HX2
Week 4:40mg (or higher depending on how i feel)+4caps HX2
Weeks 5-8: 4caps HX2+ Retain 2

OR

Weeks 5-6:40mg(or higher depending on how i feel)+4capsHX2
Weeks 7-10:6-oxo (for a mild post cycle therapy)

So how does it look?

Looks fine. Pretty standard.
If I had to mention something, I'd say you will not need to go to 40mg until week 5. Being your first cycle, (and even for a while after) you should be more fine at 30mg.
But, I'd also advise a week off after the 5th week.
You would probably be better off to NOT plan the 7-10 weeks right now, and wait and see how things are going at that point.

 

[ChuckBooty]

OK....critique this if ya don't mind:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/ibe-nutrition/71071-planning-epi-x.html


Pulse days will be Mon, Wed, Fri, Sat
Weeks 1 and 2 30 / 30 / 30 / 30
HDX2 on OFF days (2 caps in the AM on empty stomach)

Week 3 will be off (recovery week, I have an event planned where I may be drinking anyway)

Week 4 and 5 - 30 / 30 / 30 / 30

Week 6 post cycle therapy - 20mg nolva, 10mg epi (ED), liver support (TBD)
Week 7 post cycle therapy - 10mg nolva, HDX2, liver support (TBD)

X-Lean will be ran straight through


EDIT: running HDX2 on the off days...not retain 2 (already taking X-Lean straight through)

Thanks in advance!

No opinions?

 

[SwolE Mammoth]

OK....critique this if ya don't mind:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/ibe-nutrition/71071-planning-epi-x.html


Pulse days will be Mon, Wed, Fri, Sat
Weeks 1 and 2 30 / 30 / 30 / 30
HDX2 on OFF days (2 caps in the AM on empty stomach)

Week 3 will be off (recovery week, I have an event planned where I may be drinking anyway)

Week 4 and 5 - 30 / 30 / 30 / 30

Week 6 post cycle therapy - 20mg nolva, 10mg epi (ED), liver support (TBD)
Week 7 post cycle therapy - 10mg nolva, HDX2, liver support (TBD)

X-Lean will be ran straight through


EDIT: running HDX2 on the off days...not retain 2 (already taking X-Lean straight through)

Thanks in advance!

1. I wouldn't take a full week off. This causes level instability. Wait to do the cycle after your drinking event...or just don't get super wasted.

2. Personally, I would try epi as a straight cycle to see how my body reacts and if you don't like the side effects, then I may go with a pulse cycle. I don't have much more advice as I would rather do straight cycles. What you do have for the cycle looks good though.

 

[doluseb]

lol- I wasn't gettign testy

I have been editing that post for like an hour now (I'm at work, so it's off and on).

I guess I wanted to put it in perspactive...
I love some JW too :twisted:

Don't get me wrong, I love JW too. It works and that's more than I can say for most supps. Only thing I'm saying is nobody really knows what low dose 6-dehydromethyltest will do; whether it acts as a AI or not. But ALR was pretty hesitant to let the fact out, so maybe they thought that simply because it was an isomer of dbol it would behave favorably. (Seems that's the climate of the supp industry).
Fact remains that isomers tend to act similarly to the base compound, even if low-dosed. So imo best to stay away from it in your PCT.
ps. I still have 2 bottles of JW and I know they won't go to waste.

 

[EasyEJL]

Fact remains that isomers tend to act similarly to the base compound, even if low-dosed.

Well, that was my whole point, is "they tend to act similarly" not "they absolutely act the same". Bottom line is that so far from anecdotal experiences of users as well as blood tests it doesn't appear that JW is suppressive, or what suppresiveness is in any of the ingredients is made up for by other ingredients that raise natural test levels.

So I'm not saying its not suppressive, or is suppresive, just that it might be, and people should make their own judgement call. The evidence of real world users doesn't make it look like it is suppresive. Yes there is a risk that it is, but there is also a risk that taking any methyl designer in the first place will kick a hole in your liver, so this isn't exactly a health food forum

Alsom most people don't use Tamoxifen citrate after a pusle either, and since the Dalamara was already set up with the Tamoxifen citrate, that should keep him well covered.

 

[Solitude]

Need some personal advice on PCT

Hi fellas!

I'm starting an Epi pulse cycle at the moment.

For post cycle therapy I will still take Nolva, even though a lot of people says it's not necessary for a pulse cycle, but I prefer taking it just for extra insurance.

Nolva will be dosed at 30 mg for 5 days, 20 mg for the next 5 days and 10 mg for another 5 days, so in total of 15 days of Nolva treatment. My total post cycle therapy will be a whole month, but I will only use Nolva for the first 15 days, since I believe using the pulse cycle won't cause too much shutdown, so I don't want to overdo the Nolva when it's unnecessary.


Now for the rest of the post cycle therapy month, here is the list of additional post cycle therapy supplements that I'm going to take:

For liver restoration:
- Anabolic Innovations Cycle Support
- Thermolife Liver Longer
- NOW SAMe
- NOW Lecithin Granules

For hormone restoration:
- Palo Alto Labs Paravol
- Designer Supplements Lean Xtreme or SNS Reduce XT


I did not add any AI into that post cycle therapy is because I've been doing some research that adding AI could cause a delayed estrogen rebound few weeks after post cycle therapy, even when it is tapered down. So rather than supressing estrogen I'm thinking its better to use Test Booster (Paravol) to equalize the testosterone production with the high level of estrogen.

The AI issues might be debatable and still based on speculation, even though only very small percentage of people experienced the delayed estrogen rebound when using combo of SERM + AI, I prefer not to risk it, since post cycle therapy can be done without the use of AI anyway, so I decided to just use a low dose of SERM + Test Booster instead, what do you guys think of this?

Now I have a few questions:

1. What do you guys think of my list?

2. Is it more than enough?

3. Is Paravol a good idea for test booster? Or should I get Axis Labs HyperTest?

4. I'm thinking of adding PowerFull into that list, is it a good idea? Will it be a worthy addition to my post cycle therapy and cost effective enough?

5. Or how about ActivaTe Xtreme instead of PowerFull? Are either one of these two will be a worthy addition?

6. Are there any other supplements that might be a good idea to add to that list?

 

[xtraflossy]

Don't get me wrong, I love JW too. It works and that's more than I can say for most supps. Only thing I'm saying is nobody really knows what low dose 6-dehydromethyltest will do; whether it acts as a AI or not. But ALR was pretty hesitant to let the fact out, so maybe they thought that simply because it was an isomer of dbol it would behave favorably. (Seems that's the climate of the supp industry).
Fact remains that isomers tend to act similarly to the base compound, even if low-dosed. So imo best to stay away from it in your post cycle therapy.
ps. I still have 2 bottles of JW and I know they won't go to waste.

I beleive It was a simular metabolite, not an isomer. And No, I wouldn't expect it to act the same.
If it did, (and this was my whole point) and had very slight activity, ... so does MANY other things we commonly take durring PCT. To single out JW (or 6-bro...) is like watching my dog sh*t in the same spot day after day :rofl:

I know many people that have used it in PCT (myself included) and have always felt I have bennifitted from it.
I will continue to use it based on my own expirence with it and other's comments on it over "speculation"...
If that speculation was "instant death" of coiurse Id wait to see.

 

[xtraflossy]

Hi fellas!

I'm starting an Epi pulse cycle at the moment.

For post cycle therapy I will still take Nolva, even though a lot of people says it's not necessary for a pulse cycle, but I prefer taking it just for extra insurance.

Nolva will be dosed at 30 mg for 5 days, 20 mg for the next 5 days and 10 mg for another 5 days, so in total of 15 days of Nolva treatment. My total post cycle therapy will be a whole month, but I will only use Nolva for the first 15 days, since I believe using the pulse cycle won't cause too much shutdown, so I don't want to overdo the Nolva when it's unnecessary.


Now for the rest of the post cycle therapy month, here is the list of additional post cycle therapy supplements that I'm going to take:

For liver restoration:
- Anabolic Innovations Cycle Support
- Thermolife Liver Longer
- NOW SAMe
- NOW Lecithin Granules

For hormone restoration:
- Palo Alto Labs Paravol
- Designer Supplements Lean Xtreme or SNS Reduce XT


I did not add any AI into that post cycle therapy is because I've been doing some research that adding AI could cause a delayed estrogen rebound few weeks after post cycle therapy, even when it is tapered down. So rather than supressing estrogen I'm thinking its better to use Test Booster (Paravol) to equalize the testosterone production with the high level of estrogen.

The AI issues might be debatable and still based on speculation, even though only very small percentage of people experienced the delayed estrogen rebound when using combo of SERM + AI, I prefer not to risk it, since post cycle therapy can be done without the use of AI anyway, so I decided to just use a low dose of SERM + Test Booster instead, what do you guys think of this?

Now I have a few questions:

1. What do you guys think of my list?

2. Is it more than enough?

3. Is Paravol a good idea for test booster? Or should I get Axis Labs HyperTest?

4. I'm thinking of adding PowerFull into that list, is it a good idea? Will it be a worthy addition to my post cycle therapy and cost effective enough?

5. Or how about ActivaTe Xtreme instead of PowerFull? Are either one of these two will be a worthy addition?

6. Are there any other supplements that might be a good idea to add to that list?

You post cycle looks fine.

I am a HUGE FAN of Powerfull. Increase in GH, thus LH -> into test is great for postcycle as it is a completely different way to stimulate test.
Honestly,... Nolva, some other test booster and the new Powerfull will do you wonders. Your extra goodies are a great addition as well.

Personally, I would hold off getting the Activate until maybe after 4weeks PCT. After all, it basicly like introducing a low dose of test (since your freeing up your own test) and will be supressive to some degree.
Plus, you would want to save the Activate for when your test levels are higher anyways, as it will be more effective since it is reling on it anyways.

 

[Solitude]

You post cycle looks fine.

I am a HUGE FAN of Powerfull. Increase in GH, thus LH -> into test is great for postcycle as it is a completely different way to stimulate test.
Honestly,... Nolva, some other test booster and the new Powerfull will do you wonders. Your extra goodies are a great addition as well.

Personally, I would hold off getting the Activate until maybe after 4weeks post cycle therapy. After all, it basicly like introducing a low dose of test (since your freeing up your own test) and will be supressive to some degree.
Plus, you would want to save the Activate for when your test levels are higher anyways, as it will be more effective since it is reling on it anyways.

Ok, I will leave out Activate for some other time and I will add PowerFULL into my list.

Should I leave out Liver Longer as well? Will it be useful during post cycle therapy or is it just a waste of money? A friend of mine told me that LL is designed specifically to use On-Cycle, so using it for post cycle therapy might be pointless, what's your take on this?

For Test & Libido boosting which one would you prefer Paravol or Hypertest?

 

[xtraflossy]

Ok, I will leave out Activate for some other time and I will add PowerFULL into my list.

Should I leave out Liver Longer as well? Will it be useful during post cycle therapy or is it just a waste of money? A friend of mine told me that LL is designed specifically to use On-Cycle, so using it for post cycle therapy might be pointless, what's your take on this?

For Test & Libido boosting which one would you prefer Paravol or Hypertest?

LL is best used on-cycle. In addition, pulsing greatly reduces the stress on the liver to begin with.

I'd go with Hypertest (although, its exact ingreadients are unknown to me) I do know that Paravol, IMO, would best serve as a sexual aid, and not so much a test booster.

lol- with all that you have, you might as well had gone completely on

 

[Solitude]

LL is best used on-cycle. In addition, pulsing greatly reduces the stress on the liver to begin with.

I'd go with Hypertest (although, its exact ingreadients are unknown to me) I do know that Paravol, IMO, would best serve as a sexual aid, and not so much a test booster.

lol- with all that you have, you might as well had gone completely on

LOL! Yeah you're right, I'm just overly cautious for my first time. Testing the waters with as much life jacket, boats and everything else I need around me. Hahaha!

Are there anything else you can suggest for me to drop it out from those list? I wouldn't mind saving a few more bucks as well actually.

How about the SAMe and Lecithin? Will they help to recover liver function to original condition? Are they a good addition or just a waste of money?

 

[xtraflossy]

LOL! Yeah you're right, I'm just overly cautious for my first time. Testing the waters with as much life jacket, boats and everything else I need around me. Hahaha!

Are there anything else you can suggest for me to drop it out from those list? I wouldn't mind saving a few more bucks as well actually.

How about the SAMe and Lecithin? Will they help to recover liver function to original condition? Are they a good addition or just a waste of money?

Your liver should be just fine (assuming no previous conditions).
I know people who recover just fine strictly using nolva, and thats after being ON cycle, not pulsing.

I would say have the Nolva omn hand anyways. I keep a bottle in my cabinate (not that Im ON cycle that much- but I dont wajnt to be cought a few days not having it if I needed it)

I have done fine simply doing some sort of AI based supp. (lol- actually, JW or HD o rsomething like that. Maybe some Retain or restore.)

Pulsing Epi, I would say
Nolva
Powerfull
+ test booster should be enough. You could probably do without either Pfull or the test booster, if you wanted to choose one over the other.)

I also like to do something FUN too
be it try some RPM, powerfull, I like doing some Xtend (BCAA's: not so much fun, but it serves purpose, plus endurrence, and something other then water in the gym)

I really want to give AX's Advanced PCT a go,.. but I dont see any feedback, and they havent seriously offered t olet me test/log it so...

In You PCT that your doing, and to save money, I'd really only use the Pfull at night. The sleep promoting abilities to me are the most usefull along with leaning from increased GH.
So many times PF will be my "fun"

 

[Solitude]

Your liver should be just fine (assuming no previous conditions).
I know people who recover just fine strictly using nolva, and thats after being ON cycle, not pulsing.

I would say have the Nolva omn hand anyways. I keep a bottle in my cabinate (not that Im ON cycle that much- but I dont wajnt to be cought a few days not having it if I needed it)

I have done fine simply doing some sort of AI based supp. (lol- actually, JW or HD o rsomething like that. Maybe some Retain or restore.)

Pulsing Epi, I would say
Nolva
Powerfull
+ test booster should be enough. You could probably do without either Pfull or the test booster, if you wanted to choose one over the other.)

I also like to do something FUN too
be it try some RPM, powerfull, I like doing some Xtend (BCAA's: not so much fun, but it serves purpose, plus endurrence, and something other then water in the gym)

I really want to give AX's Advanced post cycle therapy a go,.. but I dont see any feedback, and they havent seriously offered t olet me test/log it so...

In You post cycle therapy that your doing, and to save money, I'd really only use the Pfull at night. The sleep promoting abilities to me are the most usefull along with leaning from increased GH.
So many times PF will be my "fun"

Ah ok, yeah I can get nolva quite easily, and I have like 60 tabs on hand already, just in case.

So if nolva + test booster is enough, then I can save up a lot.

How about the cortisol control (Lean Xtreme), not necessary as well?

 

[xtraflossy]

Ah ok, yeah I can get nolva quite easily, and I have like 60 tabs on hand already, just in case.

So if nolva + test booster is enough, then I can save up a lot.

How about the cortisol control (Lean Xtreme), not necessary as well?

lol- the purpose of pulsing was to avoid as many sides and to greatly reduce the need for PCT ;P

lol- ..I'd probably choose Powerfull over the test booster though.

Actually, I really liked using Restore (although it has 6-bro, if your wondering). Restore had just a little AI, free'd up just a little test, and had mbeat (cortisol blocker) all in one.
Nolva and Restore would work too.

(I know, I know,. .you should have seen MY PCT from my first cycle (SD and Ergomax) It was crazy!!
It was like : Retain, 6-oxo, UltraHotter, test booster, .... a whole bunch of other stuff I cant even remember

And I was on cycle for 4-5 weeks straight )

 

[Solitude]

lol- the purpose of pulsing was to avoid as many sides and to greatly reduce the need for post cycle therapy ;P

lol- ..I'd probably choose Powerfull over the test booster though.

Actually, I really liked using Restore (although it has 6-bro, if your wondering). Restore had just a little AI, free'd up just a little test, and had mbeat (cortisol blocker) all in one.
Nolva and Restore would work too.

(I know, I know,. .you should have seen MY post cycle therapy from my first cycle (superdrol and Ergomax) It was crazy!!
It was like : Retain, 6-oxo, UltraHotter, test booster, .... a whole bunch of other stuff I cant even remember

And I was on cycle for 4-5 weeks straight )

LOL! That is a lot of stuff...

Superdrol and Ergo for 4-5 weeks straight for first timer? That's pretty crazy!

I have decided I'll do Nolva, Restore and PowerFULL (for a bit of fun )

Sounds good?

I have never used 6-bromo before, what's your opinion on the issues that Pat Arnold brought up in regard to the use of 6-bromo for post cycle therapy, he said certain isomers of it has possibility to have Anabolic/Androgenic Activity?

 

[kabuki]

a little off topic for a second on JW. I love the stuff! but would not use it for post cycle myself. While doing the evo stack i had my test levels checked after about 4 weeks JW and 2 weeks into BAM (very rough guess as my spreadsheet i track all my usage is at work). Total test was 136. i took a month off and then ran 4 weeks of Restore and activate and it was back up to 453 at the end of that.

Got great results from JW...and never 'felt' suppressed while on it.

dunno...everyone reacts differently and it could have been the BAM or the combo...but given the results FOR ME, i won't use it for that application.

 

[xtraflossy]

LOL! That is a lot of stuff...

Superdrol and Ergo for 4-5 weeks straight for first timer? That's pretty crazy!

I have decided I'll do Nolva, Restore and PowerFULL (for a bit of fun )

Sounds good?

I have never used 6-bromo before, what's your opinion on the issues that Pat Arnold brought up in regard to the use of 6-bromo for post cycle therapy, he said certain isomers of it has possibility to have Anabolic/Androgenic Activity?

YEah- I know that combination was crazy.. The first and last week I only ran one or the other. They were combined for 3 weeks though. I was comming back into the sceen after a few years off, and the wealth of information was overwhelming..

Personally (as I stated above), I like JW. I like it for PCT. IF there is anything to what PA said, I do not notice it.
Also, I use about 50mg DHEA in PCT for the first 2 weeks,.. actually, it's more wether I feel I need it from day to day...

I don't feel that DHEA at that level signifficintly hinders in the beginng of PCT, since even with that, your usually still below normal hormone level,.. so you body still knows it needs to get crackin on the test. Taking JW, MIGHT be, at WORST (TO ME) like DHEA. So I still would take it... in place of the DHEA of course..
Basicly, there are numberous accounts of it being used in PCT-
lol- but I explained that in my previous post

 

[Solitude]

YEah- I know that combination was crazy.. The first and last week I only ran one or the other. They were combined for 3 weeks though. I was comming back into the sceen after a few years off, and the wealth of information was overwhelming..

Personally (as I stated above), I like JW. I like it for post cycle therapy. IF there is anything to what PA said, I do not notice it.
Also, I use about 50mg DHEA in PCT for the first 2 weeks,.. actually, it's more wether I feel I need it from day to day...

I don't feel that DHEA at that level signifficintly hinders in the beginng of PCT, since even with that, your usually still below normal hormone level,.. so you body still knows it needs to get crackin on the test. Taking JW, MIGHT be, at WORST (TO ME) like DHEA. So I still would take it... in place of the DHEA of course..
Basicly, there are numberous accounts of it being used in PCT-
lol- but I explained that in my previous post

Thank you for the advice bro!

How was your experience running SD and Ergo for 5 weeks? Did it went smoothly without too many sides?

Makes me wanna try it out if it went well.

 

[xtraflossy]

Thank you for the advice bro!

How was your experience running superdrol and Ergo for 5 weeks? Did it went smoothly without too many sides?

Makes me wanna try it out if it went well.

I wouldn't advise it, in general. Just one of those would be enough for the most part.
At the end, I got sick, and had to take antibiotics,.. and that really hurt..
But DAMN,.. I took ergo, and I felt like I was a butt load of test (Ive done some sust 250 my first year at Radford, lol, 250cc per week,.. so not a decent amount for any reason- for maybe 4 weeks- testing a mailing source)

But I REALLY loved it- I was a beast on Ergo :bb3:

 

[Solitude]

I wouldn't advise it, in general. Just one of those would be enough for the most part.
At the end, I got sick, and had to take antibiotics,.. and that really hurt..
But DAMN,.. I took ergo, and I felt like I was a butt load of test (Ive done some sust 250 my first year at Radford, lol, 250cc per week,.. so not a decent amount for any reason- for maybe 4 weeks- testing a mailing source)

But I REALLY loved it- I was a beast on Ergo :bb3:

Oh ****, 5 weeks maybe pushing it then.

Ergo is kinda similar to PP am I right? Which one do you prefer Ergo or PP?

 

[xtraflossy]

Oh ****, 5 weeks maybe pushing it then.

Ergo is kinda similar to PP am I right? Which one do you prefer Ergo or PP?

PP is supposed to be much better for gains. PP is basicly the most anabolic isomer in Ergo.

But PP doesnt do anything to me really. (Although for most others, its comparable to SD for gains)

Ergo, just had a VERY androgenic feeling for me.. I'd choose the Ergo

 

[Solitude]

PP is supposed to be much better for gains. PP is basicly the most anabolic isomer in Ergo.

But PP doesnt do anything to me really. (Although for most others, its comparable to superdrol for gains)

Ergo, just had a VERY androgenic feeling for me.. I'd choose the Ergo

Ah ok, I gotta try that out in the future then.

Any recommendation on a good Ergo clones?

 

[xtraflossy]

Ah ok, I gotta try that out in the future then.

Any recommendation on a good Ergo clones?

there arnt many. Juggernaught MD2 is the only one I know of