DA-HCG - The Reveal...

[ConcreteConny]

I asked Eric this in the other DA-HCG thread and he said it will be better for PCT rather than during a cycle

Not sure what his reasoning is but I would save it for PCT.

OK, thanks for that JudoJosh. The HCG-part in the product name (?) got me confused I guess

//CC

 

[JudoJosh]

OK, thanks for that JudoJosh. The HCG-part in the product name (?) got me confused I guess

//CC

It might also depend on the anabolic being used. I am sure Eric will chime in later on and explain his reasoning or give you a better answer.

As soon as it was announced he was making a DAA product I asked for myself because I wanted to do a havoc pulse again and use the DA-HCG with it.

 

[schizm]

I'm thinking a stack of this + XFA would be awwwwesome...hmmmm...

 

[Taurus Nut.]

Other than a pulse, HCG isn't really used on cycle. It's a PCT thing. I am not following why you'd use it on cycle?

 

[MidwestBeast]

Other than a pulse, HCG isn't really used on cycle. It's a PCT thing. I am not following why you'd use it on cycle?

I've read some instances where users will run hCG throughout the cycle (say a 2500iu injection twice a week starting at week 3, or something like that) just simply to avoid shutdown while on cycle, if it's a compound that would cause that. Thus, it should help with PCT not being quite as much of a knock over the head and easier to transition into and through.

(Please bear with me, I'm not an anabolic user, so my knowledge / understanding is just what I've tried to learn from reading around; that being said, what I said above may be completely wrong, but that was how I interpreted what I'd read.)

 

[ConcreteConny]

I've read some instances where users will run hCG throughout the cycle (say a 2500iu injection twice a week starting at week 3, or something like that) just simply to avoid shutdown while on cycle, if it's a compound that would cause that. Thus, it should help with PCT not being quite as much of a knock over the head and easier to transition into and through.

(Please bear with me, I'm not an anabolic user, so my knowledge / understanding is just what I've tried to learn from reading around; that being said, what I said above may be completely wrong, but that was how I interpreted what I'd read.)

Well I was thinking along those lines yes I've read a few logs where people experiment with DAA while on cycle to hopefully prevent shutdown to some degree..

 

[Rosie Chee]

Very interesting product!
So what do everyone think of DA-HCG while on PH's/DS's to combat shutdown? :think:
In my ears it sounds like a winner

//CC

HCG at 250 iu used thrice a week during a cycle can help stop shutdown during a cycle.

Being a Luteinizing Hormone Releaser, HCG is usually used as part of PCT though.

~Rosie~

 

[Rodja]

HCG at 250 iu used thrice a week during a cycle can help stop shutdown during a cycle.

Being a Luteinizing Hormone Releaser, HCG is usually used as part of PCT though.

~Rosie~

Wrong on all accounts. hCG will not prevent shutdown, but it will help to lessen the testicular atrophy during a cycle. However, atophy (or lack thereof) is not an accurate gauge for shutdown. Also, hCG is not to be used during PCT as it will prolong recovery and sabotage your PCT.

 

[Rosie Chee]

Wrong on all accounts. hCG will not prevent shutdown, but it will help to lessen the testicular atrophy during a cycle. However, atophy (or lack thereof) is not an accurate gauge for shutdown. Also, hCG is not to be used during PCT as it will prolong recovery and sabotage your PCT.

I didn't say that it would prevent shutdown, Ryan, but that it can help with it. Interesting that you say not to use HCG during PCT since very knowledgeable and experienced individuals have listed this as something that can be used. However, I am no expert on hormonals, so I apologize for any error and take this as an opportunity to add to learning about it.

~Rosie~

 

[Rodja]

The exogenous hormones are going to cause complete shutdown regardless of hCG. Hell, hCG on its own can cause shutdown via a negative feedback loop on the hypothalamus and pituitary. Does that really sound like something that should be used during PCT?

 

[Taurus Nut.]

I don't think anyone really knows to be 100% honest. It's all theory. I doubt the feedback portion of HCG or an agonist would be enough to counter act the shut down but maybe. It's interesting. However you WANT shut down IMHO it's good for you.

Long-term suppression of leydig cell steroidogenesis prevents leydig cell aging.

Researchers: Chen H, Zirkin BR

Division of Reproductive Biology, Department of Biochemistry and Molecular Biology, Johns Hopkins University, School of Hygiene and Public Health, 615 North Wolfe Street, Baltimore, MD 21205, USA.

Source: Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A 1999 Dec 21;96(26):14877-81

Summary:

Based on the observations that reactive oxygen is capable of damaging components of the steroidogenic pathway and that reactive oxygen is produced during steroidogenesis itself, we hypothesized that long-term suppression of steroidogenesis might inhibit or prevent age-related deficits in Leydig cell testosterone production. To test this, we administered contraceptive doses of testosterone to groups of young (3 months old) and middle-aged (13 months old) Brown Norway rats via Silastic implants to suppress endogenous Leydig cell testosterone production. After 8 months, the implants were removed, which rapidly (days) restores the ability of the previously suppressed Leydig cells to produce testosterone. Two months after removing the implants, when the rats of the two groups were 13 and 23 months of age, respectively, the Leydig cells in both cases were found to produce testosterone at the high levels of young Leydig cells, whereas significantly lower levels were produced by the 23-month-old controls. Thus, by placing the Leydig cells in a state of steroidogenic "hibernation," the reductions in Leydig cell testosterone production that invariably accompany aging did not occur. If hormonal contraception in the human functions the same way, the adverse consequences of reduced testosterone in later life (osteoporosis, reduced muscle mass, reduced libido, mood swings, etc.) might be delayed or prevented.

 

[ConcreteConny]

Well I got a much larger and clearer picture of hCG at least
Thanks for sharing the knowledge :thumbsup:

//CC

 

[bashman]

I don't really understand the product name as far as "HCG" part. From what you have said regarding its usage, it has no relevance to the purpose of HCG. I don't pin and still have a lot to learn, but out of all the logs and stickies I have read, HCG has no place in PCT, mainly because your leydig cells need a chance to re-sensitize to your body’s own LH production. To me, the highlight and focus should be placed on the addition of Calcium Lactate.

I'm not bashing your product, don't come down on me like a ton bricks like you unprofessionally did to Bry17 regarding M1P. I'm here to learn more so if you can, please explain and I will happily accept anytime I have made a mistake.

 

[JeffJohnston]

Im really excited for this supplement. I will be stocking up on this asap! Taurus is looking like a heavy weight in a light weight match, just knocking out the rest!

 

[ConcreteConny]

I don't really understand the product name as far as "HCG" part. From what you have said regarding its usage, it has no relevance to the purpose of HCG. I don't pin and still have a lot to learn, but out of all the logs and stickies I have read, HCG has no place in PCT, mainly because your leydig cells need a chance to re-sensitize to your body’s own LH production. To me, the highlight and focus should be placed on the addition of Calcium Lactate.

That was my initial understanding also :think:

 

[Liftergym33]

HCG at 250 iu used thrice a week during a cycle can help stop shutdown during a cycle.

Being a Luteinizing Hormone Releaser, HCG is usually used as part of PCT though.

~Rosie~

Wrong on all accounts. hCG will not prevent shutdown, but it will help to lessen the testicular atrophy during a cycle. However, atophy (or lack thereof) is not an accurate gauge for shutdown. Also, hCG is not to be used during PCT as it will prolong recovery and sabotage your PCT.

Actually, Rosie isn't wrong on all accounts.. taken HCG could help prevent shutdown, but this comes down to the person and obviously what is taken in regards to Shutdown, as you said and also what Rosie said.

From my understanding, and watching doctors and talking to them who work in this field, it seems its common for perscribing HCG during PCT, not for the whole duration though just enough for for a start of your HTPA.. so my question to you is why do you say it will prolong and sabotage your PCT? Im being told otherwise, and curious to your thoughts.

 

[Rodja]

Actually, Rosie isn't wrong on all accounts.. taken HCG could help prevent shutdown, but this comes down to the person and obviously what is taken in regards to Shutdown, as you said and also what Rosie said.

From my understanding, and watching doctors and talking to them who work in this field, it seems its common for perscribing HCG during PCT, not for the whole duration though just enough for for a start of your HTPA.. so my question to you is why do you say it will prolong and sabotage your PCT? Im being told otherwise, and curious to your thoughts.

It's not going to prevent shutdown in any sense of the word. You're making the error of confusing testicular size with shutdown. When the testicles atrophy, it is from a lack of Leydig cell acitivty, but only ~10% of the mass is composed of Leydig cells. The fact is that once exogenous hormones are introduced for an extended period, the body stops producing its own endogenous test.

hCG is used as a pre-PCT, so to speak, if a person is shutdown from a cycle and did not recover due to a lack of SERM or natural rebound (this depends upon the individual). However, using it conjunction with your PCT is an awful idea because, as I said, hCG can cause shutdown on it own via negative feedback loop on the hypothalamus and the pituitary.

 

[Liftergym33]

It's not going to prevent shutdown in any sense of the word. You're making the error of confusing testicular size with shutdown. When the testicles atrophy, it is from a lack of Leydig cell acitivty, but only ~10% of the mass is composed of Leydig cells. The fact is that once exogenous hormones are introduced for an extended period, the body stops producing its own endogenous test.

hCG is used as a pre-PCT, so to speak, if a person is shutdown from a cycle and did not recover due to a lack of SERM or natural rebound (this depends upon the individual). However, using it conjunction with your PCT is an awful idea because, as I said, hCG can cause shutdown on it own via negative feedback loop on the hypothalamus and the pituitary.

When I say, may help prevent. I'm saying it in a sense of the Level of severity, there will still be shutdown, but to what extent. Thats is what I was saying. and obviously this comes down to the person, and type of PH/PS taken. I sure this is what Rosie was saying also.

Now when you say HCG can cause shutdown, true, long periods of use is my understander and at high amounts. Ive see it used during the first 1-1.5 weeks of PCT and and test levels came , or started coming back just fine then the use of HCG is dropped and let the rest of a PCT meds take the course.

??

 

[Rodja]

When I say, may help prevent. I'm saying it in a sense of the Level of severity, there will still be shutdown, but to what extent. Thats is what I was saying. and obviously this comes down to the person, and type of PH/PS taken. I sure this is what Rosie was saying also.

Now when you say HCG can cause shutdown, true, long periods of use is my understander and at high amounts. Ive see it used during the first 1-1.5 weeks of PCT and and test levels came , or started coming back just fine then the use of HCG is dropped and let the rest of a PCT meds take the course.

??

Think of it this way in regards to PCT use: you already have a shutdown HPTA and the role of PCT is to "jumpstart" the body into recovery. However, using hCG is canceling out the first couple of weeks of PCT, which is epically critical for proper recovery.

Ideal usage of hCG is about 2 weeks into a long injectable cycle and continued usage until the final shot, which is ~2 weeks prior to PCT.

 

[Liftergym33]

Think of it this way in regards to PCT use: you already have a shutdown HPTA and the role of PCT is to "jumpstart" the body into recovery. However, using hCG is canceling out the first couple of weeks of PCT, which is epically critical for proper recovery.

Ideal usage of hCG is about 2 weeks into a long injectable cycle and continued usage until the final shot, which is ~2 weeks prior to PCT.

Huh.. I wonder why he was put on HCG for the first part..?

 

[Rodja]

Huh.. I wonder why he was put on HCG for the first part..?

There are some scenarios in which it can be used, but that is usually only in the case of a failed PCT or prolonged shutdown.

 

[Liftergym33]

There are some scenarios in which it can be used, but that is usually only in the case of a failed PCT or prolonged shutdown.

Yea, he didn't fail in PCT actually, this was a planned PCT for him.. i can try and get more details, but this was planned, and he came out awesome.. i think it was a 8-10 week cycle maybe? this could be the reason, he may have had extreme shutdown, and they used the HCG to " i call it , bring him back to life"

so your saying this is possible^^

 

[Rodja]

Yea, he didn't fail in PCT actually, this was a planned PCT for him.. i can try and get more details, but this was planned, and he came out awesome.. i think it was a 8-10 week cycle maybe? this could be the reason, he may have had extreme shutdown, and they used the HCG to " i call it , bring him back to life"

so your saying this is possible^^

Even a 10 week cycle isn't a really long cycle on long-estered injectables. Honestly, you may not even need to use hCG during a cycle like this (of course, if it was short-acting esters like prop and ace).

 

[Liftergym33]

Even a 10 week cycle isn't a really long cycle on long-estered injectables. Honestly, you may not even need to use hCG during a cycle like this (of course, if it was short-acting esters like prop and ace).

So..... it is possible your saying?

 

[Rodja]

So..... it is possible your saying?

When I said extended shutdown, I meant months after the cycle is complete and not a direct result of a just-completed cycle. For example, when people still suffer the effects from shutdown months, or years, after their cycle is over.

 

[Liftergym33]

There are some scenarios in which it can be used, but that is usually only in the case of a failed PCT or prolonged shutdown.

Yea, he didn't fail in PCT actually, this was a planned PCT for him.. i can try and get more details, but this was planned, and he came out awesome.. i think it was a 8-10 week cycle maybe? this could be the reason, he may have had extreme shutdown, and they used the HCG to " i call it , bring him back to life"

so your saying this is possible^^

Even a 10 week cycle isn't a really long cycle on long-estered injectables. Honestly, you may not even need to use hCG during a cycle like this (of course, if it was short-acting esters like prop and ace).

When I said extended shutdown, I meant months after the cycle is complete and not a direct result of a just-completed cycle. For example, when people still suffer the effects from shutdown months, or years, after their cycle is over.

Ahhh, I see what you said, and I agree^^^. so my question is why would one be prescribed a PCT with HCG like he was?

 

[Liftergym33]

When I said extended shutdown, I meant months after the cycle is complete and not a direct result of a just-completed cycle. For example, when people still suffer the effects from shutdown months, or years, after their cycle is over.

Life would suck, if you felt the effects for that long..p:

 

[Rodja]

Ahhh, I see what you said, and I agree^^^. so my question is why would one be prescribed a PCT with HCG like he was?

You'd be surprised how many people still think hCG should be used during PCT.

 

[flightposite]

So shut down is good! Wow I just learned something new. In a strange way it kinda makes sense though. Maybe I won't worry so much the next time my boys shrink up now lol.

 

[thebigt]

You'd be surprised how many people still think hCG should be used during PCT.

but in all actuality this is moot, since we are not talking about hcg the injectable but daa/calcium lactate. so to get back on track, what is your take on daa in pct? or during a cycle?

 

[Liftergym33]

but in all actuality this is moot, since we are not talking about hcg the injectable but daa/calcium lactate. so to get back on track, what is your take on daa in pct? or during a cycle?

Absolutely correct Tom, this acts/similar to HCG, but your not taking "HCG"

 

[thebigt]

Absolutely correct Tom, this acts/similar to HCG, but your not taking "HCG"

yup.:yup: and lots of guys have used daa successfully in pct. the added calcium lactate should just add to the results. so for anyone who has used daa in pct, this would really be worth a shot-even more so at this ridiculous price...damn!

 

[Liftergym33]

yup.:yup: and lots of guys have used daa successfully in pct. the added calcium lactate should just add to the results. so for anyone who has used daa in pct, this would really be worth a shot-even more so at this ridiculous price...damn!

I'm more looking forward to use it as a stand alone just to Gage how the lactate amplifies the DAA.

 

[JudoJosh]

I'm more looking forward to use it as a stand alone just to Gage how the lactate amplifies the DAA.

Not me!!! My future stack is..

Fadogia/DA-HCG/Wyked/7KE/6-bromo/DCP/HEAT stack .... :bling:

Tryna find that six pack before its beach weather

 

[Craigmatthew]

I'm more looking forward to use it as a stand alone just to Gage how the lactate amplifies the DAA.

That's what I am thinking. I use have used Patrick Arnold's Testforce2 and enjoyed it, so looking forward to Eric's version and see just how effective it is.

 

[thebigt]

That's what I am thinking. I use have used Patrick Arnold's Testforce2 and enjoyed it, so looking forward to Eric's version and see just how effective it is.

nice, i hear that pa's version is the gold standard! so if it beats that then we are platinum.:yup::yup::yup:

 

[JudoJosh]

nice, i hear that pa's version is the gold standard! so if it beats that then we are platinum.:yup::yup::yup:

$30 vs $50.. hmmm... :think: yea I think I would go with TNs

 

[Rodja]

but in all actuality this is moot, since we are not talking about hcg the injectable but daa/calcium lactate. so to get back on track, what is your take on daa in pct? or during a cycle?

It is a must have during PCT.

 

[thebigt]

It is a must have during PCT.

agreed!!! i think adding the calcium lactate is a novel twist, can't wait to try it out.

 

[ConcreteConny]

Not me!!! My future stack is..

Fadogia/DA-HCG/Wyked/7KE/6-bromo/DCP/HEAT stack .... :bling:

Tryna find that six pack before its beach weather

That sounds like a killer stack :thumbsup:

//CC

 

[flightposite]

So Eric if shut down could be considered a good thing why would someone need a whole bunch of serms testboosters and ai's wouldn't it be better to let yourself restart naturally? Or do I have some of it wrong if the cell were healthier and aged less because of the shut down wouldn't they bounce back nicely? Or do they still need a kickstart to wake them up

 

[Taurus Nut.]

I think the bounce back isn't the issue, but it's more that perhaps the shutdown is not as bad as we think. You can use th other agents for the recovery, but to try to prevent shut down doesn't seem as high a priority.

 

[flightposite]

That makes sense. Kinda gives thought to the taper method used before all the serms. Thanks Eric. Btw I bought 3 I think this and formadrol would make anawesom pct.

 

[Taurus Nut.]

I made a mistake and I thought the containers we had would hold the full amount of DA-HCG but I was wrong and they only held 80g. So, I just doubled everyones order so you get 160g instead. I didn't think anyone would mind.

 

[flightposite]

This is awesome. Customer service at it's finest. Eric and tuarus are some good guys.

 

[Tomahawk88]

I made a mistake and I thought the containers we had would hold the full amount of DA-HCG but I was wrong and they only held 80g. So, I just doubled everyones order so you get 160g instead. I didn't think anyone would mind.

Awesome wont hear me complaining :yup:

 

[MidwestBeast]

This is awesome. Customer service at it's finest. Eric and tuarus are some good guys.

:yup:

 

[Taurus Nut.]

For sure it would be awesome with Formadrol since Formadrol is a great AI to use with these two. Remember D-AA also increases estrogen formation so an AI is very important.

 

[oufinny]

For sure it would be awesome with Formadrol since Formadrol is a great AI to use with these two. Remember D-AA also increases estrogen formation so an AI is very important.

I didn't know this, good point!

 

[thebigt]

I think the bounce back isn't the issue, but it's more that perhaps the shutdown is not as bad as we think. You can use th other agents for the recovery, but to try to prevent shut down doesn't seem as high a priority.

very interesting.