D Aspartic Acid & Negative side effects

[southpaw23]

BBB Permeability, target tissues, safety concerns.

Thanks C. I understand the safety concerns regarding DAA, but with respect to N-Methyl-D-aspartic acid, would you advise using one over the other?

 

[bigdavid]

Thanks C. I understand the safety concerns regarding DAA, but with respect to N-Methyl-D-aspartic acid, would you advise using one over the other?

the study done was on DAA supplementation not NMDA... plus less concern taking DAA compared to NMDA

 

[Patrick Arnold]

OK thanks guys. That is what I gathered, that there was no safe dosage for NMDA and that it could be dangerous at certain dosages. You would figure if you took enough DAA that could be harmful as well, but maybe not......

i dont know of any evidence that shows oral administration of nmda is toxic. or not toxic

 

[allieninja]

i dont know of any evidence that shows oral administration of nmda is toxic. or not toxic

PA, with this being said, how do you feel about iForce's new NMDA product, Intimidate?

first couple of logs:
anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/188523-get-intimidated-tomahawk.html
anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/188517-intimidate-u-ready.html
anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/188514-napalms-sponsored-iforce.html

sorry about bunk links, still a noob in the eyes of AM

 

[Patrick Arnold]

PA, with this being said, how do you feel about iForce's new NMDA product, Intimidate?

first couple of logs:
anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/188523-get-intimidated-tomahawk.html
anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/188517-intimidate-u-ready.html
anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/188514-napalms-sponsored-iforce.html

sorry about bunk links, still a noob in the eyes of AM

i have never heard of it. should i get all excited and stop what i am doing and read up on it?

 

[southpaw23]

None of this sounds positive. Lol.

 

[bdcc]

PA, with this being said, how do you feel about iForce's new NMDA product, Intimidate?

first couple of logs:
anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/188523-get-intimidated-tomahawk.html
anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/188517-intimidate-u-ready.html
anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/188514-napalms-sponsored-iforce.html

sorry about bunk links, still a noob in the eyes of AM

I didn't realise the ingredient had been announced.

There was a competition on a UK forum to guess the ingredient and he who guessed NMDA did not win. Are you sure?

 

[bdcc]

None of this sounds positive. Lol.

Clear you inbox please SP.

 

[southpaw23]

Clear you inbox please SP.

Done my friend.

 

[WARBIRDWS6]

i dont know of any evidence that shows oral administration of nmda is toxic. or not toxic

correct, I think its more assumption than actual fact. Seems to be a lot of NMDA toxicity articles on the net though for some reason.

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Seems to be a lot of NMDA toxicity articles on the net though for some reason.

there are a ton of NMDA related articles on the internet because it is an important tool in studying the brain

 

[WARBIRDWS6]

there are a ton of NMDA related articles on the internet because it is an important tool in studying the brain

must they be so negative? and scare us? or could they study they brain without the scary stuff?

 

[allieninja]

i have never heard of it. should i get all excited and stop what i am doing and read up on it?

Yes you should.

I didn't realise the ingredient had been announced.

There was a competition on a UK forum to guess the ingredient and he who guessed NMDA did not win. Are you sure?

Yes I am sure. The logs have already started.

 

[mr.cooper69]

Thanks C. I understand the safety concerns regarding DAA, but with respect to N-Methyl-D-aspartic acid, would you advise using one over the other?

I would advise DAA over NMDA, with the two primary reasons being:

1. DAA penetrates the BBB far more efficienctly than supplemental NMDA.
2. DAA seems to have a better safety profile.

 

[Patrick Arnold]

possible role of NMDA receptors in muscle nerve transmission?

Muscle Nerve. 2011 Dec;44(6):987-9. doi: 10.1002/mus.22250.
[h=1]NMDA receptors at the endplate of rat skeletal muscles: Precise postsynaptic localization.[/h]Malomouzh AI, Nurullin LF, Arkhipova SS, Nikolsky EE.
[h=3]Source[/h]Kazan Institute of Biochemistry and Biophysics, Russian Academy of Sciences, P.O. Box 30, Kazan 420111, Russia. [email protected].

[h=3]Abstract[/h]In this study we demonstrate expression of the N-methyl-D-aspartate receptor NR1 subunit in the rat neuromuscular junction of skeletal muscles of different functional types (extensor digitorum longus, soleus, and diaphragm muscles) using fluorescence immunocytochemistry. Electron microscopic immunocytochemistry has shown that the NR1 subunit is localized solely on the sarcolemma in the depths of the postsynaptic folds. These findings suggest participation of the glutamatergic signaling system in functioning of the adult mammalian neuromuscular junction.Muscle Nerve, 2011.
Copyright © 2011 Wiley Periodicals, Inc.

PMID: 22102472 [PubMed - in process]

 

[jiberish]

I tried taking DAA twice, both times I couldn't sleep a wink a couple of days after I started. Worst insomnia ever. Sucks because I bought 3 tubs, so had to give them away

 

[southpaw23]

This is all so very confusing and the consensus is, there is no consensus.What I've been able to gather so far regarding NMDA, is that it does more harm than good.

 

[VaughnTrue]

This is all so very confusing and the consensus is, there is no consensus.What I've been able to gather so far regarding NMDA, is that it does more harm than good.

You need to do more reading.


Any of the supposed "harm" that NMDA causes it when it's applied directly directly to brain matter. You plan on removing your skull and applying liberally? LOL nope


Everyone had concerns when DAA came out, and then everyone realized they were wayyyy overblown.

Same is here.


iForce's new INTIMIDATE is pure NMDA and is going to make quite a few people happy with some impressive results.

 

[southpaw23]

You need to do more reading.


Any of the supposed "harm" that NMDA causes it when it's applied directly directly to brain matter. You plan on removing your skull and applying liberally? LOL nope


Everyone had concerns when DAA came out, and then everyone realized they were wayyyy overblown.

Same is here.


iForce's new INTIMIDATE is pure NMDA and is going to make quite a few people happy with some impressive results.

Well if I need to do more reading, then so do many others in this thread, as it seems there are conflicting opinions on the long term impact of the ndma. No need to get defensive, which seems to be reflexive for you, take a step back for once in your life and look at it from the consumer's POV. We're all just trying to learn as much as we can and make informed decisions. Damn you are a sensitive guy sometimes.

 

[WARBIRDWS6]

This is all so very confusing and the consensus is, there is no consensus.

for real, I guess we should just use DAA for now......at least until the pure NMDA supps come around (as mentioned by one poster, that his company is releasing one).....I notice muscle warfare's NMDA is conglomeration of a dozen supplements, and whats worse I can't even figure out what mg amount of the first listed blend is ACTUALLY NMDA....I'd at least want a pure product where I know the ingredients exact dosage.

 

[StackedCop]

for real, I guess we should just use DAA for now......at least until the pure NMDA supps come around (as mentioned by one poster, that his company is releasing one).....I notice muscle warfare's NMDA is conglomeration of a dozen supplements, and whats worse I can't even figure out what mg amount of the first listed blend is ACTUALLY NMDA....I'd at least want a pure product where I know the ingredients exact dosage.

iforce will be using 30mg nmda per serving.

 

[vidapreta]

iforce will be using 30mg nmda per serving.

That was pretty straight forward. :yeah:

 

[vidapreta]

iforce will be using 30mg nmda per serving.

This is Intimidate right?? Is it out yet??

 

[bigdavid]

iforce will be using 30mg nmda per serving.

How is this supposed to compare results wise to 3 grams DAA per day? Or is the point of the logs that I have seen popping up to find that out...

 

[StackedCop]

How is this supposed to compare results wise to 3 grams DAA per day? Or is the point of the logs that I have seen popping up to find that out...

Subscribe to the logs

 

[StackedCop]

This is Intimidate right?? Is it out yet??

Not out yet. Beta logs are just starting.

 

[bigdavid]

Subscribe to the logs

Had a feeling you would say that lol

 

[StackedCop]

Had a feeling you would say that lol

The full write up hasn't been released yet, but I'm trying to find out as much as I can. Trust me I want to know just as much as you.

 

[bigdavid]

The full write up hasn't been released yet, but I'm trying to find out as much as I can. Trust me I want to know just as much as you.

Yeah, understood. I didnt know if you had some knowledge of the write up since you are a rep. Just curious if the company had any "theoretical" data to estimate gains compared to DAA. Looks like logs are the best we have available right now so Ill be sure to follow some of them.

 

[WARBIRDWS6]

the bad part is that despite the fact the stuff is gonna work, since we already know big brother will work just as good and probably better than little brother.....but again, no way we will know long term sides....and the short term sides will be similar to DAA of course. So I doubt we learn much new info other than I am certain the loggers results should be superior to DAA.

 

[StackedCop]

the bad part is that despite the fact the stuff is gonna work, since we already know big brother will work just as good and probably better than little brother.....but again, no way we will know long term sides....and the short term sides will be similar to DAA of course. So I doubt we learn much new info other than I am certain the loggers results should be superior to DAA.

I agree. If you want to use it then use it. If your worried about the sides then don't use it. Sh!t I started this thread back in march, lol

 

[WARBIRDWS6]

I agree. If you want to use it then use it. If your worried about the sides then don't use it. Sh!t I started this thread back in march, lol

yeah I think it dropped down the page's pretty far, but I found it and bumped it back to the top a few days back, and then it was on again for another half dozen pages hahahaha!!!

 

[StackedCop]

yeah I think it dropped down the page's pretty far, but I found it and bumped it back to the top a few days back, and then it was on again for another half dozen pages hahahaha!!!

It's all good. I have no shame in bumping a thread back from the dead if the information is relative.

 

[Snapper]

i can give people placebo and get the same proportion of people that will say the stuff is making them anxious i bet

but you are right, you still count it. thats why drug companies have placebo arms in their studies to account for these things

I can just as easily say: "I can give people placebo and get a significantly higher proportion that will say DAA is making them anxious I bet". (In other words, neither of us has a clue). I personally tend to experience anxiety whenever something makes me feel unusual, as I did with DAA. It's just my body's way of saying "hang on, something might be wrong here". Once my system is used to whatever feels different, though, this tends to subside. So it might with DAA.

I reduced my DAA to less than 0.5 g per day and I don't feel unusual, and I do seem to have some libido effect (higher). Everyone is different. A lot of dispute about whether GABA crosses the blood brain barrier. Rarely do I see anyone acknowledge it may be variable. It certainly crosses the barrier for me to some degree, and whatever part of the brain it might be, because GABA consistently helps me to go to sleep (and believe me, I've tried placebos in the form of things like chamomile and I wish they helped me sleep!).

 

[Snapper]

On dosage, I'm now taking about 0.5 g per day. I'm going to see how this goes because it doesn't seem to me there is a very strong rationale for 3 g per day. Some of the recommendations for Creatine seem to me ridiculously high. The research I've seen indicates that 2-3 g of Creatine has the same effect as the higher dosages (albeit the result may take a bit longer to achieve).

Does anyone know of any rationale for ~ 3 g? (other than that they happened to use that much in the J. Reprod Biology and Endocrinology study)

They had all of 23 guys in the 'treatment' group. Still, they got a fair F-ratio, assuming it's all legit, albeit more studies could easily contradict it still. However, for all we know, if they'd had three treatment groups with, say, 0.5 g, 1.5 g, 3 g, there may have been no difference between the 0.5 g and 3 g. No way of knowing, as far as I can see; 0.5 g more than usual could be quite a lot for all I know (and can tell from what I've read).

I think I'll stick with ~ 500 mg per day for a while.

 

[DGA3]

I just spent about an hour reading all 25 pages of this thread.

Now I'm more tired than I would be following a hard leg workout! :rofl:

It's cool that we have so many educated and well-informed members around here.

Good job.

 

[Patrick Arnold]

There are some unanswered questions about D-aspartic acid: What is the rate of production in the body and what is the rate of methylation to N-methyl-D-asparic acid. In the body it is produced in the locals wher e it is used. In so fart as I know it does not go into general circulation. On the other hand when it is ingested it goes everywhere.

u are correct in that the enzyme which makes it from l-aspartic acid is localized in specific parts of the body. Still though it circulates in plasma.

when you ingest DAA it does go everywhere but it only collects in cells which have the mechansims to extract and sequester it

The fact that cells are able to extract it from plasma seems to indicate that circulating DAA is a substantial contribution to target tissue storage

 

[Patrick Arnold]

I can just as easily say: "I can give people placebo and get a significantly higher proportion that will say DAA is making them anxious I bet". (In other words, neither of us has a clue). I personally tend to experience anxiety whenever something makes me feel unusual, as I did with DAA. It's just my body's way of saying "hang on, something might be wrong here". Once my system is used to whatever feels different, though, this tends to subside. So it might with DAA.
.

i was given general anesthesia over the summer to remove a kidney stone and the anesthesiologist said he was putting something in the IV to relax me. It didnt relax me though it freaked me out. cuz it made me feel weird and then i thought i was gonna die or something. so i know what you say. perhaps the DAA is not anxiogenic at all (i dont think it is) but some people freak out cuz they are ultra sensitive to feeling "different"

 

[Snapper]

i was given general anesthesia ... It didnt relax me though it freaked me out. cuz it made me feel weird and then i thought i was gonna die or something ...

Yeah, when I had a colonoscopy and the anasthesia started kicking in, I freaked out for a moment feeling as though I was dying, then the sedative component kicked in and I was very calm ... next thing I know, I'm waking up. The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced this is what's going on for me. I actually felt pretty good at first after having 3 g of DAA, then it got a bit weird and I think some adrenaline kicked in. I'd almost forgotten that the first time I had Creatine, I felt "hyped" and on edge. I actually thought it contained ephedra, but that's illegal in Australia and it was a well known brand, so I doubt it (?). It was probably also an initial change to the body. If DAA acts throgh the hypothalamus to affect test and LH, then you're going to feel a bit different. I'm just very attuned to physiological/mental changes and I know a lot of peole are not so attuned (often I wish I wasn't). I think I'll go with 0.5 g and just look to nudge it up to 1 g and take it from there. No rule that says it has to be 3 g.

 

[allieninja]

possible role of NMDA receptors in muscle nerve transmission?

Muscle Nerve. 2011 Dec;44(6):987-9. doi: 10.1002/mus.22250.
[h=1]NMDA receptors at the endplate of rat skeletal muscles: Precise postsynaptic localization.[/h]Malomouzh AI, Nurullin LF, Arkhipova SS, Nikolsky EE.
[h=3]Source[/h]Kazan Institute of Biochemistry and Biophysics, Russian Academy of Sciences, P.O. Box 30, Kazan 420111, Russia. [email protected].

[h=3]Abstract[/h]In this study we demonstrate expression of the N-methyl-D-aspartate receptor NR1 subunit in the rat neuromuscular junction of skeletal muscles of different functional types (extensor digitorum longus, soleus, and diaphragm muscles) using fluorescence immunocytochemistry. Electron microscopic immunocytochemistry has shown that the NR1 subunit is localized solely on the sarcolemma in the depths of the postsynaptic folds. These findings suggest participation of the glutamatergic signaling system in functioning of the adult mammalian neuromuscular junction.Muscle Nerve, 2011.
Copyright © 2011 Wiley Periodicals, Inc.

PMID: 22102472 [PubMed - in process]

Any other feelings on this, and/or your thoughts on potential risk?

 

[Torobestia]

I can just as easily say: "I can give people placebo and get a significantly higher proportion that will say DAA is making them anxious I bet". (In other words, neither of us has a clue). I personally tend to experience anxiety whenever something makes me feel unusual, as I did with DAA. It's just my body's way of saying "hang on, something might be wrong here". Once my system is used to whatever feels different, though, this tends to subside. So it might with DAA.

This is EXACTLY what I suspect is happening in those reporting anxiety.

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Yeah, when I had a colonoscopy and the anasthesia started kicking in, I freaked out for a moment feeling as though I was dying, then the sedative component kicked in and I was very calm ... next thing I know, I'm waking up. The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced this is what's going on for me. I actually felt pretty good at first after having 3 g of DAA, then it got a bit weird and I think some adrenaline kicked in. I'd almost forgotten that the first time I had Creatine, I felt "hyped" and on edge. I actually thought it contained ephedra, but that's illegal in Australia and it was a well known brand, so I doubt it (?). It was probably also an initial change to the body. If DAA acts throgh the hypothalamus to affect test and LH, then you're going to feel a bit different. I'm just very attuned to physiological/mental changes and I know a lot of peole are not so attuned (often I wish I wasn't). I think I'll go with 0.5 g and just look to nudge it up to 1 g and take it from there. No rule that says it has to be 3 g.

just breathe. inhale, exhale. everything is gonna be ok

lol

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Any other feelings on this, and/or your thoughts on potential risk?

i see nothing in that abstract which brings up the thoughts of risk

 

[Snapper]

just breathe. inhale, exhale. everything is gonna be ok

lol

mocking inane advice, or offering it? hopefully the former.

 

[Gym4Life]

I'm 24 and after all the people saying how good daa is I used a bottle of tcf1 3 grams per day for a month I noticed absolutley nothing no strength gains or muscle or libido ... If anything the only thing I got from daa was my left arm and bicep kept shaking muscle spasym.

I won't use daa ever again and will stick to activate xtreme .

 

[Snapper]

What I can say is that semen analysis (of course there is some exoticness to what I do, but understand it is no brain biopsy) did show increased quantity and quality (judging from motility factors and anatomic reconstruct.). What I can say is a whole bunch of subjective stuff that mimics that which many have already plagued this thread with and many others across the internet and so on. What I can say is...it is far better from many herbal nonsensical preps that people rave over from an objective standpoint.

D_

Going to this post waaay back on p. 9 -- I can concur with the semen analysis, and I get this effect with around 0.5 g per day and within a very short time (making me wonder whether 3 g is really necessary for any effects that are to be seen). I also agree with the disposition you seem to express toward standard medical 'controlled experiments'; and I say this as someone with a fair bit of expertise in statistical analysis, much of which I consider rubbish. I can't say about results, I need to give that one a bit longer.

 

[ticklemeelbow]

I just got some of this. I took my first dose a few minutes ago. Hopefully I won't have any of the negative effects that are listed.

 

[kingdong]

I'm 24 and after all the people saying how good daa is I used a bottle of tcf1 3 grams per day for a month I noticed absolutley nothing no strength gains or muscle or libido ... If anything the only thing I got from daa was my left arm and bicep kept shaking muscle spasym.
I won't use daa ever again and will stick to activate xtreme .

Were you whacking it more?

 

[th3futur3]

I just spent about an hour reading all 25 pages of this thread.

Now I'm more tired than I would be following a hard leg workout! :rofl:

It's cool that we have so many educated and well-informed members around here.

Good job.

What can we say? We are all the modern day Jesus. (Woman laughs) What? You think Mary gave birth to a human? (Kid laughs hysterically to the point of physical discomfort...Pointing at him with a fully extended right arm, turned hip, and index finger firmly flexed...) Shoosh child! Let me preach! Mary gave birth to anabolicminds, which later, spawned an abundance of reps, members, and some of the most intelligent humans on earth to bring....not bread and wine...but valuable information...(epic music slowly rises) So hear me when I say, damn it, people! If you have a question, a concern, NAY...a request! GO to anabolicminds! (Raises fist) Let your voice be heard!!!!! (Rips shirt off and all see an i-Force tattoo with a bottle of intimidate on his chest) (silence) (whispers....) and let your body be loved...(huge uproar and clapping until a random spectator comes on stage and kills the young man and announces his name as Mission1.) The end.

 

[BigPkle]

Just started DAA tonight. I'll keep everyone posted on results etc.