Bulk Creatine Nitrate

JudoJosh said:
I don't think they do, they applied for a patent but it hasn't passes it and is currently be challenged by another supplement company

I'm not too sure about Trademark laws so I'm not too sure on the legality of making a similar compound.

I'm sure more CN products will be available soon and hopefully a bulk

And I don't buy the "not safe" excuse either. That logic of "someone can take too much" can be applied to anything
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I agree with you 100%. Whether or not someone agrees or disagrees with TL's position, another choice has been stripped away from consumers and it's disappointing to say the least. This is definitely not about consumer protection.
 
StakedCop said:
I called MF and they said they had to pull it due to RK holding the legal rights to CN. MF said they bought the CN legit which we already established. The person I spoke to said they submitted an application to use CN in their pre workout. Doesn't sound like CN will ever be sold again in bulk.

That sums it up. And they said they follow all the forums and wanted me to tell all you haters to buzz off. :lol: ok i made that part up :p

What a pleasant company to deal with!!!!
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X2

I spoke with Sean this morning and was told the exact same thing.
 
southpaw23 said:
I agree with you 100%. Whether or not someone disagrees with TL's position, another choice has been stripped away from consumers and it's disappointing to say the least. This is definitely not about consumer protection.
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I think the reaction here is a little exagerated.

Think this through..

MF got the shipment by mistake so they wouldnt have recieved another one. Once inventory sold out it would have been over. How long would that CN bag lasted? Would you have really ordered more before he ran out? Especially at the rates it was selling?

Also you guys should be happy a bulk was even available. Not everything is available in bulk purchases for average consumers. This whole buying you own powders to mix and cap is still realtively new. A couple years back if you wanted a bulk item a pound bag would not have been an option. You would have had to buy from a manfactuer and by the drum.

Lots of money goes into making products, especially when you consider research & development, marketing, employees, taxes, trial and error. Just because the actual contents of the bottle are worth say $1 doesnt mean a company should sell it for $1. It could have cost that company thousands to perfect that ingredient.

Are you upset when you buy sneakers that cost nike $3 to make and they are selling it for $90?

Are you upset that cows are shot up wih hormones and force fed corn and then served up to a plate with a USDA label all cuz it is cheaper for the company and screws the consumer?

Thermolife made this compound and has every right to say who they can and cant sell to. We have something called the free market here.. dont like it? Dont buy it? Simple as that..

In time I am sure the prices will drop (as all products do) and in time bulks will be made available. Not to mention it is a little weird the whole patent concept of this and there is a chance of it falling through and when it does Im sure other CNs will be made.

Furthermore if you REALLY want creatine nitrate and dont want to be bothered by any details of its manufacturing then there are companies eselling it in bulk. A simple google search turned one up for me so if you REALLY want it in bulk that bad, stop complaining and use google.
 
I think I've reached the point where I can't spread any more reputation points around in here anymore...lol. A lot of strong posts in here that are very true and well written (so nice to see that).
 
southpaw23 said:
I agree with you 100%. Whether or not someone agrees or disagrees with TL's position, another choice has been stripped away from consumers and it's disappointing to say the least. This is definitely not about consumer protection.
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I doubt its about consumer protection it is about market control. Apple does the same thing with their products. If they sell bulk for significently cheaper it lowers the value of their product.

Again the bulk is from TL and they have every right to decide what to do with their product. It sucks yes, but it isnt a reason to villify them.

This will be totally different if what came to light was MF got their bulk from someone else and TL was demanding it to be pulled. But this isnt the case. One of their products were being sold without their approval so they pulled it.
 
DAdams91982 said:
I would have to agree here.

Reading that patent really pisses me off, and I too hope Gaspari is successful (Even though I am not a fan) because the wording is so very arbitrary on that patent. Basically if you attach anything to a nitrate/nitrite you infringe on the patent. This is exactly where these patent farm lawyers get their money, from shady arbitrary patents being filed, like Microsoft patenting the freaking double click.
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Lol ah yes the double click patent. I remember reading that and thinking it was a comedy skit. I'm going to find one of the most common denominators shared amongst people and attempt to patent it.
 
JudoJosh said:
I think the reaction here is a little exagerated.

Think this through..

MF got the shipment by mistake so they wouldnt have recieved another one. Once inventory sold out it would have been over. How long would that CN bag lasted? Would you have really ordered more before he ran out? Especially at the rates it was selling?

Also you guys should be happy a bulk was even available. Not everything is available in bulk purchases for average consumers. This whole buying you own powders to mix and cap is still realtively new. A couple years back if you wanted a bulk item a pound bag would not have been an option. You would have had to buy from a manfactuer and by the drum.

Lots of money goes into making products, especially when you consider research & development, marketing, employees, taxes, trial and error. Just because the actual contents of the bottle are worth say $1 doesnt mean a company should sell it for $1. It could have cost that company thousands to perfect that ingredient.

Are you upset when you buy sneakers that cost nike $3 to make and they are selling it for $90?

Are you upset that cows are shot up wih hormones and force fed corn and then served up to a plate with a USDA label all cuz it is cheaper for the company and screws the consumer?

Thermolife made this compound and has every right to say who they can and cant sell to. We have something called the free market here.. dont like it? Dont buy it? Simple as that..

In time I am sure the prices will drop (as all products do) and in time bulks will be made available. Not to mention it is a little weird the whole patent concept of this and there is a chance of it falling through and when it does Im sure other CNs will be made.

Furthermore if you REALLY want creatine nitrate and dont want to be bothered by any details of its manufacturing then there are companies eselling it in bulk. A simple google search turned one up for me so if you REALLY want it in bulk that bad, stop complaining and use google.
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JudoJosh, known for longest posts in the history of AM lol

Always a good and informative read!
 
JudoJosh said:
I think the reaction here is a little exagerated.

Think this through..

MF got the shipment by mistake so they wouldnt have recieved another one. Once inventory sold out it would have been over. How long would that CN bag lasted? Would you have really ordered more before he ran out? Especially at the rates it was selling?

Also you guys should be happy a bulk was even available. Not everything is available in bulk purchases for average consumers. This whole buying you own powders to mix and cap is still realtively new. A couple years back if you wanted a bulk item a pound bag would not have been an option. You would have had to buy from a manfactuer and by the drum.

Lots of money goes into making products, especially when you consider research & development, marketing, employees, taxes, trial and error. Just because the actual contents of the bottle are worth say $1 doesnt mean a company should sell it for $1. It could have cost that company thousands to perfect that ingredient.

Are you upset when you buy sneakers that cost nike $3 to make and they are selling it for $90?

Are you upset that cows are shot up wih hormones and force fed corn and then served up to a plate with a USDA label all cuz it is cheaper for the company and screws the consumer?

Thermolife made this compound and has every right to say who they can and cant sell to. We have something called the free market here.. dont like it? Dont buy it? Simple as that..

In time I am sure the prices will drop (as all products do) and in time bulks will be made available. Not to mention it is a little weird the whole patent concept of this and there is a chance of it falling through and when it does Im sure other CNs will be made.

Furthermore if you REALLY want creatine nitrate and dont want to be bothered by any details of its manufacturing then there are companies eselling it in bulk. A simple google search turned one up for me so if you REALLY want it in bulk that bad, stop complaining and use google.
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It has nothing to do with complaining, nor am I inclined to take the corporatist position on something like this. Yes, clearly we operate in a free market, and as such Thermolife won't be receiving any of my business. Luckily I'm blessed enough at this stage in my life where I have enough disposable income to spend on supps. It's the circle of life and you need guys like me in that circle. As DA alluded to in his prior post, the patent filing is vague and arbitrary at best. I purchase my CN from APS and am happy to continue doing so. Limiting choices for consumers is not the answer.It goes against the principles of a free market system, which you referenced above and that I am against. There are some in this thread who were upset at the very mention of a bulk creatine product being sold, wonder why that is? Rant over. Back to having fun again.
 
DAdams91982 said:
I would have to agree here.

Reading that patent really pisses me off, and I too hope Gaspari is successful (Even though I am not a fan) because the wording is so very arbitrary on that patent. Basically if you attach anything to a nitrate/nitrite you infringe on the patent. This is exactly where these patent farm lawyers get their money, from shady arbitrary patents being filed, like Microsoft patenting the freaking double click.
Click to expand...

Actually just aminos. I wonder if it covers purus labs daa nitrate product though.
 
JudoJosh said:
I think the reaction here is a little exagerated.

Think this through..

MF got the shipment by mistake so they wouldnt have recieved another one. Once inventory sold out it would have been over. How long would that CN bag lasted? Would you have really ordered more before he ran out? Especially at the rates it was selling?

Also you guys should be happy a bulk was even available. Not everything is available in bulk purchases for average consumers. This whole buying you own powders to mix and cap is still realtively new. A couple years back if you wanted a bulk item a pound bag would not have been an option. You would have had to buy from a manfactuer and by the drum.

Lots of money goes into making products, especially when you consider research & development, marketing, employees, taxes, trial and error. Just because the actual contents of the bottle are worth say $1 doesnt mean a company should sell it for $1. It could have cost that company thousands to perfect that ingredient.

Are you upset when you buy sneakers that cost nike $3 to make and they are selling it for $90?

Are you upset that cows are shot up wih hormones and force fed corn and then served up to a plate with a USDA label all cuz it is cheaper for the company and screws the consumer?

Thermolife made this compound and has every right to say who they can and cant sell to. We have something called the free market here.. dont like it? Dont buy it? Simple as that..

In time I am sure the prices will drop (as all products do) and in time bulks will be made available. Not to mention it is a little weird the whole patent concept of this and there is a chance of it falling through and when it does Im sure other CNs will be made.

Furthermore if you REALLY want creatine nitrate and dont want to be bothered by any details of its manufacturing then there are companies eselling it in bulk. A simple google search turned one up for me so if you REALLY want it in bulk that bad, stop complaining and use google.
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Capitalism baby. Great post
 
southpaw23 said:
It has nothing to do with complaining, nor am I inclined to take the corporatist position on something like this. Yes, clearly we operate in a free market, and as such Thermolife won't be receiving any of my business. Luckily I'm blessed enough at this stage in my life where I have enough disposable income to spend on supps. It's the circle of life and you need guys like me in that circle. As DA alluded to in his prior post, the patent filing is vague and arbitrary at best. I purchase my CN from APS and am happy to continue doing so. Limiting choices for consumers is not the answer.It goes against the principles of a free market system, which you referenced above and that I am against. There are some in this thread who were upset at the very mention of a bulk creatine product being sold, wonder why that is? Rant over. Back to having fun again.
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You are still supporting tl in an indirect way by purchasing aps. Just so you are aware.

I like TL products personally, underated here at am.
 
Royd The Noyd said:
You are still supporting tl in an indirect way by purchasing aps. Just so you are aware.

I like TL products personally, underated here at am.
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I was under the impression that APS licensed their CN from Sigma Tau. So TL covers the whole pie? The Mubarak of nitrates.
 
southpaw23 said:
I was under the impression that APS licensed their CN from Sigma Tau. So TL covers the whole pie? The Mubarak of nitrates.
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At the moment yes TL=Mubarak :D.
It will be interesting to see what happens with the patent challenge as both sides feel very confident.
 
Outstanding said:
I'm still in shock... I should have bought more, now that's its been removed from the website. Sigh.

I still expect it to be back in stock though, because they (the website) seem to really do business right and would never pull any fly-by-night tactics to make a quick dollar on some creatine nitrate. They might have just sold out... although, I would think in that case they would still keep the product on the site and list some generic expected back in stock date.

PS: I don't believe in, or buy into the 'nitrates aren't safe in bulk' mantra. So, because someone pays triple for the same product already in capsules, there's a magical barrier keeping them from simply taking 10-20 capsules at once? It isn't about safety, it's about corporate profiteering, which in this instance considering the patent rights is at their discretion (it just sucks nonetheless). If it was about safety, there wouldn't be such a thing as Aspirin or Flinstone's vitamins on the market. There will always be some gung ho moron stuck in his pubescent glory who will ingest ten-fold of any pill or powder he can get his hands on.
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Something I haven't seen discussed as of yet, which might create a pretty exciting loophole regarding this ban on selling in raw bulk form, is... WHY doesn't someone simply come out with a pure Creatine Nitrate powder, add in some light flavoring, some vitamin-c and/or some BCAAs, and call it a preworkout?

This would circumvent all the legality, and since all athletes understand the important of amino acid supplementation, and vitamin c is imperative to avoid nitrate tolderance, this would still in essence be a bulk powder and cost would still be extremely low - ALL while twinkle-toeing around the patent quicksand.
 
Outstanding said:
Something I haven't seen discussed as of yet, which might create a pretty exciting loophole regarding this ban on selling in raw bulk form, is... WHY doesn't someone simply come out with a pure Creatine Nitrate powder, add in some light flavoring, some vitamin-c and/or some BCAAs, and call it a preworkout?

This would circumvent all the legality, and since all athletes understand the important of amino acid supplementation, and vitamin c is imperative to avoid nitrate tolderance, this would still in essence be a bulk powder and cost would still be extremely low - ALL while twinkle-toeing around the patent quicksand.
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Muscle feast is doing this now, stay tuned. ;)
 
southpaw23 said:
I was under the impression that APS licensed their CN from Sigma Tau. So TL covers the whole pie? The Mubarak of nitrates.
Click to expand...

You might be getting CN confused with nitrozine. Nitrozine has Glycocarn which Sigma has a patent to not sure if they make any CNs too
 
Outstanding said:
Something I haven't seen discussed as of yet, which might create a pretty exciting loophole regarding this ban on selling in raw bulk form, is... WHY doesn't someone simply come out with a pure Creatine Nitrate powder, add in some light flavoring, some vitamin-c and/or some BCAAs, and call it a preworkout?

This would circumvent all the legality, and since all athletes understand the important of amino acid supplementation, and vitamin c is imperative to avoid nitrate tolderance, this would still in essence be a bulk powder and cost would still be extremely low - ALL while twinkle-toeing around the patent quicksand.
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WhatsaRoid? said:
Muscle feast is doing this now, stay tuned. ;)
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Invalid Link Removed

Why did Sean supposedly send back all the raws then?

At any rate, I really never stressed out about this... my pound will last a short while, and by the time it's out, where there's a will there's a way in capitalism!
 
@ Judo - That's entirely possible. I could have sworn that I read that they (APS) license their CN from Sigma Tau, probably wrong.
 
southpaw23 said:
@ Judo - That's entirely possible. I could have sworn that I read that they (APS) license their CN from Sigma Tau, probably wrong.
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:dunno: you can ask JD and see if he knows

I think during the SHR interview APS said creatrate and even referenced the creatrate study. They prolly are sourcing their CN through PII
 
southpaw23 said:
@ Judo - That's entirely possible. I could have sworn that I read that they (APS) license their CN from Sigma Tau, probably wrong.
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According to them, they did not. They have an inquiry out with premium ingredients now and are awaiting a reply.
 
Outstanding said:
Something I haven't seen discussed as of yet, which might create a pretty exciting loophole regarding this ban on selling in raw bulk form, is... WHY doesn't someone simply come out with a pure Creatine Nitrate powder, add in some light flavoring, some vitamin-c and/or some BCAAs, and call it a preworkout?

This would circumvent all the legality, and since all athletes understand the important of amino acid supplementation, and vitamin c is imperative to avoid nitrate tolderance, this would still in essence be a bulk powder and cost would still be extremely low - ALL while twinkle-toeing around the patent quicksand.
Click to expand...

give this man a raise.
 
Outstanding said:
Something I haven't seen discussed as of yet, which might create a pretty exciting loophole regarding this ban on selling in raw bulk form, is... WHY doesn't someone simply come out with a pure Creatine Nitrate powder, add in some light flavoring, some vitamin-c and/or some BCAAs, and call it a preworkout?

This would circumvent all the legality, and since all athletes understand the important of amino acid supplementation, and vitamin c is imperative to avoid nitrate tolderance, this would still in essence be a bulk powder and cost would still be extremely low - ALL while twinkle-toeing around the patent quicksand.
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Dude. WTF? I thought we were gonna get rich?

It's a little too soon for the teaser thread.:wink1:
 
Hawk said:
Dude. WTF? I thought we were gonna get rich?

It's a little too soon for the teaser thread.:wink1:
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Pre-sale! Hahaha!

southpaw23 said:
It looks as though they are waiting on an approval from Ron Kramer, to sell the CN in a formulated product.
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I'm still disappointed overall, but from what everyone has shared here and the reading I've done, I really don't expect this patent war to go the way Thermolife wants it, which will open the floodgates for other companies to offer this unique compound in a more cost friendly manner.

It's all conjecture at this point of course, but by the time this summer is in full swing, I fully anticipate at the very least having a nice powdered and inexpensive preo-workout type product without the proprietary rubbish and additional versions of creating tagging along.
 
I called up Sean last night, to confirm that my order was sill being shipped, thankfully it is. It should be here tomorrow, can't wait to review it!

I then wen't along to ask him if I could buy the 100kilos of left over CN from him, instead of shipping it back to PI, unfortunately that would make my bank account $7,040 lighter:tongue2: (not srs)

I keep patting myself on the back for biting the bullet, and ignoring the skepticism, only to find out the product was legit.

Inb41post.jpg
 
just got my email on what the pre wo will look like

creatine nitrate(1.5g)
bcaa nitrate 4:1:1(.5g)
l arginine akg(2g)
citrulline malate(2g)
beta alanine (2g)
b3,b6,b12
vit c(1g)
 
phantom said:
just got my email on what the pre wo will look like

creatine nitrate(1.5g)
bcaa nitrate 4:1:1(.5g)
l arginine akg(2g)
citrulline malate(2g)
beta alanine (2g)
b3,b6,b12
vit c(1g)
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L-Arginine AKG...... I am disappoint. Why... WHY do companies continue using this laughable cheap ineffective compound to 'boost' nitric oxide levels? UGH.

I was hoping for a nice and simple BCAA Nitrate, Vitamin C, and Creatine Nitrate Product. Oh well.
 
phantom said:
just got my email on what the pre wo will look like

creatine nitrate(1.5g)
bcaa nitrate 4:1:1(.5g)
l arginine akg(2g)
citrulline malate(2g)
beta alanine (2g)
b3,b6,b12
vit c(1g)
Click to expand...

I'm buying it, I'm happy they didn't add caffeine or 1,3. I actually think once word get out about these guys a few companies might not have enough money to still sponser at AM lol.

Outstanding said:
L-Arginine AKG...... I am disappoint. Why... WHY do companies continue using this laughable cheap ineffective compound to 'boost' nitric oxide levels? UGH.

I was hoping for a nice and simple BCAA Nitrate, Vitamin C, and Creatine Nitrate Product. Oh well.
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Agmatine would have been nice
 
WhatsaRoid? said:
I'm buying it, I'm happy they didn't add caffeine or 1,3. I actually think once word get out about these guys a few companies might not have enough money to still sponser at AM lol.

Agmatine would have been nice
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agree on all points. :fest30:

Stim free= boom winning


We should email MF and ask if they can consider leaving the Arginine AKG crud out.
 
WhatsaRoid? said:
I'm buying it, I'm happy they didn't add caffeine or 1,3. I actually think once word get out about these guys a few companies might not have enough money to still sponser at AM lol.



Agmatine would have been nice
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I'm also SUPER stoked about no stims... and I'm always on board for Agmatine Sulfate! :)
 
Outstanding said:
I'm also SUPER stoked about no stims... and I'm always on board for Agmatine Sulfate! :)
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Agmatine would be the logical choice or more citrulline malate. Frankly, the fact it is so simple and appears to be dosed right, I have little to complain about besides the AAKG.
 
AKG is not useless. It may be for a pump but arginine is shown to improve endurance which we can all use:


In a double-blind, crossover study, researchers examined nine fit males aged 19 to 38 years old. These guys were given either a 500 ml Arginine-enriched drink (6 g of L-Arginine) or a placebo drink and then put under a series of physical tests using moderate to severe intensity for one hour with the help of a cycling ergometer.

The Arginine group showed a significant increase in the NO2 plasma levels and a marked reduction in systolic blood pressure. During moderate exercise, oxygen uptake was reduced by 7% and during intense exercise, V02 amplitude was reduced, extending the time to exhaustion.

• Improves severe-intensity exercise endurance by 20%
• Significantly reduces systolic blood pressure
• Reduces the oxygen cost of exercise

These results are significant to elite and endurance athletes, and bodybuilders who can expect longer training times, increased blood flow to the muscles and enhanced muscular growth.
 
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