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Bloodwork study of 4iu GH vs peptides & MK677 (similar to 2-3 iu GH)

Brienn8989 said:
Thanks for the help brother. This thread has helped me to pull the trigger on mk. I have some cdp choline, b5, l arg/orn on its way and will be using the egcg capsules along with megadosing fish oil.
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Yeah this thread led me to pull trigger on mk677 also. ..and very happy I did, heck its my new nerve medicine also (great stuff) you'll be happy u did. And like he said, which I just started doing this week is taking b/f workouts and it helps. Im only using half the dose and im also splitting that like e12hours. That way it helps me with my pumps and sleep.....its a no brainer for me im my old self again....relaxed confident and more sure of myself which totally helps especially with my mental and physical disabilities (bad motorcycle accident, no helmet brain injurie and quite a bit of torture to my body) but thanks to 200mg test cyp week and 12.5mg mk677 daily I seem to be finally recovering well. Best of luck.
 
Anyone ran this higher than 25mg been on 12.5mg and 25mg and feel it’s like night and day difference when used at the higher dosage.
 
I ordered some mk cream from muscle gelz so maybe pw I will do 4 pumps then at night the oral sublingual mk for a total of 15/15 spilt . Thoughts on that . I don’t know how much of muscle gelz mk if absorbed threw the skin but i would imagine 95% or more.
 
tregar said:
Thanks JulzRulz. Hi Brienn8989, good luck with your mk677 start up. Yes, I there are some things you can take to make it even stronger. I take 200mg of Citicoline CDP Choline from Jarrow formulas along with a capsule of vitamin B5 or pantothenic acid, this greatly helps the choline convert to acetylcholine in the brain. As GH works thru the choline system, as written by Pearson and Shaw back in the day, I actually do feel that on the days that I take the choline, the effects from the mk677 are even more pronounced and stronger. Caffeine free egcg capsule is also good to take or green tea capsule like you mention. There is lots written about this on forums here and elsewhere about choline and egcg helping with peptides and any form of gh secratogogue so I won't go into it here, but russianstar wrote a paper on this. Some prefer the huperzine A by itself with green tea, I used that in the past, but I prefer just a capsule of choline now with b5, just like pearson and shaw used in their gh secreting formulas. If you can find it, there is a formula on line that has 200mg citcoline with 100mg alpha gpc, this is a super formula that you can take with vitamin b5. I take the choline and b5 at the same time I take the 25mg mk677, and when I have egcg I add that too.

The best formula I feel is the one from purenootropics.net which is Optimal Choline Complex which contains 200mg CDP choline and 100mg alpha GPC choline, so you get both forms of choline in one pill. Just add vitamin b5.

Cool that you remember that yes, before every workout, I take 6 capsules of Now sports arginine/ornithine for a total of 3g L-arginine and 1.5 gram L-ornithine, I showed studies earlier in this thread that show a very large increase in GH when taken before workouts that last for several hours, I always use this before workouts, and Yes, I do believe it is very effective to take along with mk677. As MK677 has been shown to raise gh during workouts, the arginine/ornithine does the same and they both add on top each other.

You can get very large increases during workouts with mk677 and the arginine/ornithing--just the arg/orn alone can raise igf-1 into the 600 ng/ml igf-1 ! during workouts as shown in the most recent studies, very good paper. That is the equivalent of 6iu of GH for several hours ! See post #10 for the graphs and study. I used the same formula in my 20's and 30's and it really worked back then as well. In the study they compare the igf-1 of placebo to those taking the amino acids, and what a difference while working out. The placebo only got up to 400 ng/ml igf-1.
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Thanks for all the information Tregar, between opening my eyes to HMB & MK 677, you've been a great help but I'd like you to clarify a few things because I am interested in a peptide stack. As far as I understand, supplements to potentiate MK 677 are:

Alpha GPC & CDP Choline: GH secretion is governed by the cholinergic system at 100 mg and 200 mg
Vitamin B5: Pantothenic acid facilitates the Choline-to-Acetylcholine conversion at RDA
Huperzine A/ ECGC: Somastatin inhibition at ????
Arginine & Ornithine: Preworkout Somastatin inhibition at 3000 mg and 1500 mg

I can also add in 5 mg of CJC + DAC e5d to boost the effects, but in your experience would this add LBM over time above the rate of training naturally? It is too expensive for anti aging effects alone, and you have compared to MK 677 to 4 iu's of HGH so I'd imagine combining all of the above would be much stronger. In other words is MK 677 potentiation + CJC DAC at 5 mg e5d enough to kick start LBM above natty?
 
Brienn8989 said:
Man l arg/orn preworkout is fantastic. For as cheap as it is, it’s becoming a staple now.
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Agreed, it will never let you down. Arg is combined with ornith. as it makes it just as potent as having taken close to 10grams of arg on it's own. The GH releasing properties of arg + orn are amplified when used together, just like the studies, so less of each is required in combination.

Best fish oil hands down as it is "burpless". Nature's bounty 1200mg fish oil caps (Walgreens) usually on sale in packs of two. I store the bottles in the fridge, and always take with a vitamin E every now and then.

Favorite keto snack of all time: 1/2 cup of frozen costco 3-berries blend, with heavy whipping cream poured on
top = total carbs = 8grams - 2.5 grams fiber = 5.5g total carbs. Antioxidants galore, I even start feeling
better soon after eating them, great super brain food. Great to add pre-workout or post to help fuel glycogen to muscles.

I can only tolerate about 200 to 300mg extra choline a day as I get lots from eggs allready, but that's just me.
 
tregar said:
Brienn8989 said:

Agreed, it will never let you down. Arg is combined with ornith. as it makes it just as potent as having taken close to 10grams of arg on it's own. The GH releasing properties of arg + orn are amplified when used together, just like the studies, so less of each is required in combination.

Best fish oil hands down as it is "burpless". Nature's bounty 1200mg fish oil caps (Walgreens) usually on sale in packs of two. I store the bottles in the fridge, and always take with a vitamin E every now and then.

Favorite keto snack of all time: 1/2 cup of frozen costco 3-berries blend, with heavy whipping cream poured on
top = total carbs = 8grams - 2.5 grams fiber = 5.5g total carbs. Antioxidants galore, I even start feeling
better soon after eating them, great super brain food. Great to add pre-workout or post to help fuel glycogen to muscles.

I can only tolerate about 200 to 300mg extra choline a day as I get lots from eggs allready, but that's just me.
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Bump
 
Going to get my 6 month followup igf-1 bloodwork this thursday (after being on 25mg mk677 for 6 months) then will have the results next week some time to post.

Continued from post #137 (amazing studies):

Yet again another study showing those who took fish oil gained quite a bit more muscle than those who did not. The subjects who took krill oil (costco carries krill oil, and walgreens carries the burpless nature's bounty 1200mg fish oil caps) built up 1.4 kg of lean body mass, the subjects in the placebo group 0.3 kg.

21) Daily dose of 3 grams of krill oil makes bodybuilders gain more muscle:
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22) More on betaine (dirt cheap for 1kg), also see study posted in post #137 above:
Researchers had a group of males weight-train for six weeks. One group took 1.25 grams of betaine twice a day, and the control group (also weight training) supplemented with a placebo. The researchers reported in a 2013 issue of the same journal I referenced above that the subjects taking betaine increased muscle mass by four pounds and arm size by ten percent (!), while decreasing body fat by seven percent. The placebo group experienced no increase in muscle mass/arm size and no body fat loss.

Also, another study found increased production of human growth hormone following workouts with 2.5 grams a day of betaine supplementation.

And, even more recent research, with a larger population, has shown that betaine (as well as a chemically similar nutrient Choline) indeed does help lower body fat while upping muscle mass.

Betaine may even inhibit the growth of fat cells, which could be the mechanism of action as to how it works.

So, while the research is preliminary, and conflicting, supplementing with betaine/TMG may help you see quicker muscle gains and faster weight loss. Either way, other studies show a variety of athletic benefits for TMG. For example, a brand new study shows that betaine helps runners sprint faster.
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23) Green tea contains insulin booster (from ergo-log):
The most important bioactive substance in green tea, EGCG or epigallocatechine gallate, induces muscles cells to absorb more glucose. Researchers at the Kyung Hee University in Korea discovered how: like insulin, EGCG [structural formula below] activates the enzyme phosphatidylinositol (PI) 3-kinase.

EGCG
The Koreans did test-tube experiments using rat muscle. When they fed the cells with EGCG as well as glucose, the cells absorbed up to seventy percent more glucose. Interestingly, even at the highest concentration of EGCG, no muscle cells died. This means that EGCG is not cytotoxic.

The graph below shows the effect of increasing doses of EGCG on the absorption of glucose. The researchers used insulin in a concentration of 200 nanomoles in a control group. Exposure was for half an hour.

Green tea contains insulin booster

There are broadly speaking two ways in which muscle cells can absorb glucose. One is via insulin and insulin mimickers, and goes via the P13K pathway. The other goes via the protein AMPK, and becomes more active as a result of physical exercise. That is also why chemical athletes inject insulin after physical activity. After training, muscle cells absorb so much glucose that none gets to the fat cells. If you inject insulin, then the muscle cells absorb glucose even quicker, so your fat deposits don’t increase. They do increase if you use insulin at other times.

Because the Koreans wanted to determine the exact mechanism that EGCG uses, they repeated their experiments using two different blockers. One of them, LY294002, blocks the effect of P13K. This is the blocker LY in the graph below. When the Koreans added LY to the muscle cells, the stimulatory effect of EGCG on the glucose uptake stopped: the researchers had the information they needed on how EGCG works.

Green tea contains insulin booster

The researchers are interested to learn more about EGCG and glucose because they are looking for ways to alleviate diabetes-2 through diet and supplements. But the results are of course also interesting for athletes. They add evidence to the claims for green tea products as pre-training energizers, and might also be evidence of after training effects. Green tea stimulates fat burning during cardio sessions. If green tea also increases the uptake of glucose, it makes green tea even more interesting.
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A 400mg caffeine free egcg is available from NOW, the same people that make the arginine/ornithine caps 250 qty (take 6 preworkout).

See ** above, so all that choline (approx 800mg or so) djbombsquad is taking may be acting just as strong as betaine in upping lean mass and lowering bodyfat. I take in about 200 to 300mg additional supplemented choline per day on top of what I get naturally from the 5 eggs I eat a day.

24) The anti-catabolic effects double when fish oil and HMB are used together:
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So EPA (found in fish oil) and HMB do not work synergistically, but their anticatabolic effects are cumulative, in the researchers' view.

The researchers worked out how the anticatabolic effect of HMB and EPA works. The compounds inhibit the proteasome in the muscle cells. The graph in the study shows the extent to which they do this. The proteasome is a kind of cellular demolition workshop, where the enzyme chymotrypsin cuts up proteins into little pieces.
 
I’m wondering if we stacked mk with evo muse top muscle which also helps with igf1. Thoughts are welcome . Seems like a solid stack to do for 3 months to 6 months at a time .
 
Hows the water retention while on?Does it go away? I was thinking of running 12.5mg with some gw for pct but I'm scared of the facial bloating.
 
Brienn8989 said:
So I’ve been on mk 15mg a.m. dose. Was thinking of adding another 15 mg p.m.Thoughts?
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I split my doses 10am and 10pm @6.25mg each dose for a total of 12.5 a day. I started doing all 12.5 at night but I prefer the split dose cause I like the patience it gives me during the day.
 
25mg in the morning with my coffee to feel superhuman. djbombsquad what is that other product you mention to increase igf-1 above? more info please?
 
EvoMuse Presents: TopMuscle (writeup)
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Thanks djbombsquad, will check it out!

djbombsquad said:
EvoMuse Presents: TopMuscle (writeup)
EvoMuse Presents: TopMuscle™ (writeup)
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On the bloat question: Lowering dosage to half that amount (12 to 15 mg) helps to control bloating, or being on a keto diet (lowering carbs) most of the time (except around workout hours) helps to seriously minimize it at 25mg. But bloating is not all bad, it keeps water in the muscle for good pumps & helps with strength and eliminates joint issues. Have not had a single joint problem since going on mk677 6 months ago, and I lift very heavy all the time (with 1 to 2 days between workouts usually). I used to have joint problems before mk677. MK677 also has been shown to increase nitrogen retention above and beyond what HGH does.

But seriously, add 4 caps of 1200mg burpless nature's bounty fish oil (walgreens 2 pack for cheap) each morning on top of your protein, studies have shown those who do, have gained twice the amount of lean muscle mass as placebo (protein only). I notice a huge difference when I use fish oil. It helps burn fat too.

Studies not involved with the patent holder Nielsen have shown that using hmb along with fish oil doubles anticatabolic activity, so you make more gains and hold your muscle more easily without it being broken back down over time by the proteosome. The proteasome is a kind of cellular demolition workshop, where the enzyme chymotrypsin cuts up muscle proteins into little pieces.

And taking in some egcg extract (from green tea) after your workout can help your muscle's take up twice as much glycogen studies show. Green tea contains the insulin booster egcg, which also stimulates fat burning. Don't forget Skeletal muscles contain approximately 75% water, 20% protein, 1–10% fat, and 1% glycogen.

I will post my 6months mk677 updated bloodwork results next week when they come in Friday or so.

Notice in the graph below from the study that shows the outstanding anticatabolic activity of HMB + fish oil -- as it works in combination to limit the activity of the protein destroying enzyme chymotrypsin which cuts up muscle protein into little pieces.
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p.s. StanG saids that taking an aspirin a day will get rid of bloat, but keep in mind that aspirin is an NSAID. Google his article "the no bs straight scoop on mk677".
 
tregar said:
Thanks djbombsquad, will check it out!

djbombsquad said:


On the bloat question: Lowering dosage to half that amount (12 to 15 mg) helps to control bloating, or being on a keto diet (lowering carbs) most of the time (except around workout hours) helps to seriously minimize it at 25mg. But bloating is not all bad, it keeps water in the muscle for good pumps & helps with strength and eliminates joint issues. Have not had a single joint problem since going on mk677 6 months ago, and I lift very heavy all the time (with 1 to 2 days between workouts usually). I used to have joint problems before mk677. MK677 also has been shown to increase nitrogen retention above and beyond what HGH does.

But seriously, add 4 caps of 1200mg burpless nature's bounty fish oil (walgreens 2 pack for cheap) each morning on top of your protein, studies have shown those who do, have gained twice the amount of lean muscle mass as placebo (protein only). I notice a huge difference when I use fish oil. It helps burn fat too.

Studies not involved with the patent holder Nielsen have shown that using hmb along with fish oil doubles anticatabolic activity, so you make more gains and hold your muscle more easily without it being broken back down over time by the proteosome. The proteasome is a kind of cellular demolition workshop, where the enzyme chymotrypsin cuts up muscle proteins into little pieces.

And taking in some egcg extract (from green tea) after your workout can help your muscle's take up twice as much glycogen studies show. Green tea contains the insulin booster egcg, which also stimulates fat burning. Don't forget Skeletal muscles contain approximately 75% water, 20% protein, 1–10% fat, and 1% glycogen.

I will post my 6months mk677 updated bloodwork results next week when they come in Friday or so.

Notice in the graph below from the study that shows the outstanding anticatabolic activity of HMB + fish oil -- as it works in combination to limit the activity of the protein destroying enzyme chymotrypsin which cuts up muscle protein into little pieces.
Invalid Link RemovedInvalid Link Removed
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I say take your omegas. I take 2 caps 5 times a day as part of my Keto diet with my hydrolized salmon protein 4-5 times a day .
 
Where do I get a months worth of mk677 powder for only $15? Do you guys use a scoop to measure out the dosage? This thread is great.
 
Just like Brienn8989 mentions, you can find it for around forty to fifty a gram in the US. Inferno nutrition was awesome in that they used to carry very pure grams for thirty five dollars, but they are no longer around.

I am a bit behind, as I will have the updated 6 month mk677 results (having been taking 25mg every morning) on next wed when I will report back, the bloodwork has been pulled however. The test to order is the Insulin-like Growth Factor 1 for anyone else who is contemplating doing this. It is around $69

HellAtlantic, A good 0.001 gram (1mg) scale can be found at amazon, I personally use Gemini Pro AWS mini jewelry model GPR-20 scale with 0.001 gram resolution to 20 grams retails for one hundred dollars. You can use a scooper, but I prefer more accuracy.

On the decline leg press machine at the gym I'm up to 4 x 45 plates on each side for 20 reps, then 5 x 45 plates on each side with an added 10lbs right now for 8 reps, my legs tremble towards the end reps on the way up sometimes, as the weight is really up there, but I'm handling it, I'm usually sore for days even after 6 months of this leg routine. After that I do leg curls, leg extension, and seated calf raises. I don't do the squat any longer after a ruptured back disk 2 years ago, it healed on it's own after about 10 months, but I only use machines for leg now as it keeps my lower back in a locked safe position. I don't raise my butt off the decline leg press and I also don't raise my heals, I use proper form for each rep.
 
Just like Brienn8989 mentions, you can find it for around forty to fifty a gram in the US. Inferno nutrition was awesome in that they used to carry very pure grams for thirty five dollars, but they are no longer around.

I am a bit behind, as I will have the updated 6 month mk677 results (from taking 25mg every morning) on next wed when I will report back. The test to order is the Insulin-like Growth Factor 1 for anyone else who is contemplating doing this.

A way to weigh the powder is as follows: Gemini Pro AWS mini jewelry model GPR-20 scale with 0.001 gram resolution to 20 grams retails for one hundred dollars, what I use. You can use a scooper if you want, but I prefer accurate measurements. I'm sure you can find cheaper 0.001 gram scales (1mg), but the one I mentioned is top quality.
 
I don't use liquid, but rather pure xtals and weigh them out on a 0.001 g (1mg) scale from Amazon. There is a min order (in the hundreds of dollars) when buying from China, but it is packaged discreetly to get past customs (even though it is legal) and shipping is around $25 this way with a wait of around 2 weeks or less airmail.

IGF-1 range for my age group of 48 = 67 to 205 ng/ml

4-6-18, baseline igf -1 = 227 ng/ml------------------------------------------baseline
4-11-18, 2 days on 4iu of Chinese pharm grade gh = 380 ng/ml----increase of 153 points
4-25-18, 2 weeks on mk677 only = 372 ng/ml----------------------------increase of 145 points
9-7-18, 6 months on mk677 only = 322 ng/ml----------------------------increase of 95 points

There you have it, after 6 months on 25mg mk677 in the morning, increase of only 95 points, wish it were a bit higher, but it's still better than 227 baseline. It's not as effective as it was when I measured it at 2 weeks, and felt like it was strongly effective for many months before taking a bit of a nosedive in the 6th month of taking it everyday. I did switch vendors of the mk677 on the 5th and 6th months, but it was still directly from China, from a different reputable pharmacy in China none the less, had that same nasty taste that lingered for around an hour in the mouth due to benzene ring when swished around to test bitterness/taste.

What I am going to do now: I am going to go back to the mk677 stuff I had used for the first several months (from the 1st Chinese pharm) that gave me a very high reading of 372ng/ml (will pull it back out of the freezer) and use this exclusively for the next month, then will retest one month from now. I want to see if it makes a difference, or if it is just perhaps my tolerance to the stuff ? I will report back in 1 month with more bloods. I want to see what is going on.
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By looking at the test results, you can see how awesome Chinese pharm grade GH could be at around 5iu or so, perhaps would be as high as 475ng/ml as there was around a 95 point increase per each iu of GH.

Anyhow, this was I felt an interesting study in the comparison between very good foreign pharm grade GH with the impressive mk677.

The GH at 5iu a day used on working days only (5 days out of the week with weekends off) could be done at around $200 a month, while the mk677 could be used everyday at a tiny fraction of the cost with near equal results to 4iu of GH, but it just won't get as high as 5iu of GH can. There is a limit to it's power as the body imposes a regulatory system or checks and balances to keep it from getting any higher than what a gifted 16 year old is normally able to produce.

I have bloodwork coming up in 2 weeks to check testosterone and e2 and liver values, and I don't think mk677 had any effect on liver profile, I will report all this in 2.5 weeks. I have also been on 200mg a week TRT with 1/4 mg arimidex for 7 months.
 
tregar have you noticed any hypoglycemic like symptoms? I know it’s not that but man it sure feels like it. If I’m at work and don’t have time to eat every 3 hours I get the shakes and get light headed. I eat a bunch of quick carbs and symptoms subside shortly there after.
 
Brienn8989 said:
tregar have you noticed any hypoglycemic like symptoms? I know it’s not that but man it sure feels like it. If I’m at work and don’t have time to eat every 3 hours I get the shakes and get light headed. I eat a bunch of quick carbs and symptoms subside shortly there after.
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Lclt helps me. I can have mk for fasted morning wo's if lclt is on board at about 1800mg if not or the lclt is not enough I get shakey and light headed and stuff.
 
Brien8989 said:
@tregar have you noticed any hypoglycemic like symptoms? I know it’s not that but man it sure feels like it. If I’m at work and don’t have time to eat every 3 hours I get the shakes and get light headed. I eat a bunch of quick carbs and symptoms subside shortly there after.
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That's what happened to my wife when she first tried it on day one or two, she hasn't taken any since then. The compound may not be for you. Never personally experienced anything like that myself. Be safe.
 
tregar said:
Brien8989 said:
That's what happened to my wife when she first tried it on day one or two, she hasn't taken any since then. The compound may not be for you. Never personally experienced anything like that myself. Be safe.
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Appreciate it! But I’ve been reading that it could be a huge release of ghrelin and not hypo. I work a physical job and today was extra tough so that could be another cause. I’ll just have to start bringing an extra shake or two to work with protein/fruit/oat powder.
 
Sounds good! I will admit that the very first day or two, and even the 1st week, you feel a bit funny, it made me a bit euphoric and super energized & it really increases your sex drive....the 1st week, everyone reacts differently. Things looked a bit different visually too, I completely loved it, and still do even with the tapered down effects 6 months later.
 
------------------------------ important ! ------------------------------------------

This morning, when I went back and pulled out the older frozen mk677 that gave me the high readings for the 1st bloodwork, I noticed it had a much stronger lingering taste, and immediate wicked punch to the taste buds, this is what I am going to use for the next month, then have bloodwork done again, this time I am hoping this stuff will give me back the high reading again (closer to 372 like before).

There appears to be differing purity of the compound, this stuff is wicked strong from the Wuhan pharmacy (same as where pure inferno nutrition got it) rather than the stuff from the Xi pharm, stay tuned in 1 month after being on this 30 days when I will have bloods done again. I also always noticed that the entire time I took the Wu pharm stuff for months, the effects were very strong day to day, dreams stronger, day time energy stronger, etc. You really got to be careful where you get the stuff from, purity does matter. It could possibly be the difference between 145 point increase (very pure) or just 95 point increase (pure).

According to the studies done on mk677, the igf-1 and gh effects increase or stay the same for the 1st year, and even 2nd year, so I find it hard to grasp that the point increase went down from 145 to 95, I blame it on the purity of the compound, and not tolerance imho. We will soon see with upcoming bloodwork end of Oct.

** Also noticed: For me to get the same energy surge right away from the Xi pharm, I had to take around 35mg in the past, but with the Wuhan this morning only needed my regular 25mg. I LOVE the way I feel on the really pure stuff, same great energy all day long that I missed with the weaker stuff, even the pump is back this morning/afternoon. Stick with places that have an HPLC analysis if possible that is very near 100% pure. I noticed n****w labs in US had a certificate of analysis of 101.9% on their powder, that's pretty good. In the future will check out their stuff in dreams and report back.
 
tregar said:
------------------------------ important ! ------------------------------------------

This morning, when I went back and pulled out the older frozen mk677 that gave me the high readings for the 1st bloodwork, I noticed it had a much stronger lingering taste, and immediate wicked punch to the taste buds, this is what I am going to use for the next month, then have bloodwork done again, this time I am hoping this stuff will give me back the high reading again (closer to 372 like before).

There appears to be differing purity of the compound, this stuff is wicked strong from the Wuhan pharmacy (same as where pure inferno nutrition got it) rather than the stuff from the Xi pharm, stay tuned in 1 month after being on this 30 days when I will have bloods done again. I also always noticed that the entire time I took the Wu pharm stuff for months, the effects were very strong day to day, dreams stronger, day time energy stronger, etc. You really got to be careful where you get the stuff from, purity does matter. It could possibly be the difference between 145 point increase (very pure) or just 95 point increase (pure).

According to the studies done on mk677, the igf-1 and gh effects increase or stay the same for the 1st year, and even 2nd year, so I find it hard to grasp that the point increase went down from 145 to 95, I blame it on the purity of the compound, and not tolerance imho. We will soon see with upcoming bloodwork end of Oct.

** Also noticed: For me to get the same energy surge right away from the Xi pharm, I had to take around 35mg in the past, but with the Wuhan this morning only needed my regular 25mg. I LOVE the way I feel on the really pure stuff, same great energy all day long that I missed with the weaker stuff, even the pump is back this morning/afternoon. Stick with places that have an HPLC analysis if possible that is very near 100% pure. I noticed n****w labs in US had a certificate of analysis of 101.9% on their powder, that's pretty good. In the future will check out their stuff in dreams and report back.
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I can’t thank you enough. This thread has been insanely helpful and informative.
 
tregar said:
I don't use liquid, but rather pure xtals and weigh them out on a 0.001 g (1mg) scale from Amazon. There is a min order (in the hundreds of dollars) when buying from China, but it is packaged discreetly to get past customs (even though it is legal) and shipping is around $25 this way with a wait of around 2 weeks or less airmail.

IGF-1 range for my age group of 48 = 67 to 205 ng/ml

4-6-18, baseline igf -1 = 227 ng/ml------------------------------------------baseline
4-11-18, 2 days on 4iu of Chinese pharm grade gh = 380 ng/ml----increase of 153 points
4-25-18, 2 weeks on mk677 only = 372 ng/ml----------------------------increase of 145 points
9-7-18, 6 months on mk677 only = 322 ng/ml----------------------------increase of 95 points

There you have it, after 6 months on 25mg mk677 in the morning, increase of only 95 points, wish it were a bit higher, but it's still better than 227 baseline. It's not as effective as it was when I measured it at 2 weeks, and felt like it was strongly effective for many months before taking a bit of a nosedive in the 6th month of taking it everyday. I did switch vendors of the mk677 on the 5th and 6th months, but it was still directly from China, from a different reputable pharmacy in China none the less, had that same nasty taste that lingered for around an hour in the mouth due to benzene ring when swished around to test bitterness/taste.

What I am going to do now: I am going to go back to the mk677 stuff I had used for the first several months (from the 1st Chinese pharm) that gave me a very high reading of 372ng/ml (will pull it back out of the freezer) and use this exclusively for the next month, then will retest one month from now. I want to see if it makes a difference, or if it is just perhaps my tolerance to the stuff ? I will report back in 1 month with more bloods. I want to see what is going on.
Invalid Link Removed
By looking at the test results, you can see how awesome Chinese pharm grade GH could be at around 5iu or so, perhaps would be as high as 475ng/ml as there was around a 95 point increase per each iu of GH.

Anyhow, this was I felt an interesting study in the comparison between very good foreign pharm grade GH with the impressive mk677.

The GH at 5iu a day used on working days only (5 days out of the week with weekends off) could be done at around $200 a month, while the mk677 could be used everyday at a tiny fraction of the cost with near equal results to 4iu of GH, but it just won't get as high as 5iu of GH can. There is a limit to it's power as the body imposes a regulatory system or checks and balances to keep it from getting any higher than what a gifted 16 year old is normally able to produce.

I have bloodwork coming up in 2 weeks to check testosterone and e2 and liver values, and I don't think mk677 had any effect on liver profile, I will report all this in 2.5 weeks. I have also been on 200mg a week TRT with 1/4 mg arimidex for 7 months.
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95 not to shabby! I posted my results in my thread and I’m up to 153 points while 3 weeks ish in @25mg. So it good knowing I having someone to compare to at the 6 month mark in.
 
Thanks for kind words Brienn8989. Those are great results Admin _error! (+153 points). My 6 month results (only 95 points) imho are bad and I blame it on the impure stuff I was using the past 2 months, plus I never really felt on top of it like I did with the pure stuff I took the first several months, I started taking the strong pure stuff 3 days ago, and feel great again, and will retest very soon when I feel I will get the high results back again like before hopefully (+145 points). I am sick and tired of getting bad stuff. Fortunately I kept several grams of the very pure strong stuff, and will be using that from now on. It's all very similar to HGH, the more pure, the better results you get just like pharm grade vs non-pharm grade. I will retest again in about 2 weeks. I can literally feel the difference, stronger dreams, more daily energy, better cognition, pump is back, etc. I love the very pure stuff. I have to increase the dosage an extra 10 to 15mg or more when using the not very pure stuff just to equal the same results as the very pure. This is all very frustrating, and why you need to get good HPLC rated stuff. This is a very difficult molecule to synthesize and the drying process and purification process need to be spot on.

very pure best great stuff I have dreamed: pure inferno nutrition and WuHan Vanz pharm china
ok but could be better stuff: xi pharm china
some very bad stuff: bought at auction

I have seen HPLC values on some other US powder suppliers that look promising, so I am looking into one or two in particular.

I have a slight problem with somatozine costing nearly $80.00 when it's only $15 a gram for powder from China, and since I take it in the morning, I don't want any melatonin in it like liquid somatozine. That's my only beef with it, no offense however. I can get 100 iu of pharm grade HGH fom China for 160.00, so somatozine is getting near the cost of real HGH, which could be used at 5iu on workdays for close to 475 ng/ml. I truly miss pure inferno nutrtion who had excellent mk677 powder (the one that gave me 145 point increase) for only $35 a gram. But I have seen others out there near $50 who claim to have excellent HPLC.
 
Wait what is the pure stuff you’re running and how long does it take for you to feel the results? Sounds like it happened quickly for you.
 
tregar said:
Thanks for kind words Brienn8989. Those are great results Admin _error! (+153 points). My 6 month results (only 95 points) imho are bad and I blame it on the impure stuff I was using the past 2 months, plus I never really felt on top of it like I did with the pure stuff I took the first several months, I started taking the strong pure stuff 3 days ago, and feel great again, and will retest very soon when I feel I will get the high results back again like before hopefully (+145 points). I am sick and tired of getting bad stuff. Fortunately I kept several grams of the very pure strong stuff, and will be using that from now on. It's all very similar to HGH, the more pure, the better results you get just like pharm grade vs non-pharm grade. I will retest again in about 2 weeks.
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Have you noticed an increase in hair growth? My beard is growing thicker and fuller and my old lady swears I have more hair on my head. Haha
 
Yes, hair grows very fast while on it, my wife cuts my hair, and she has noticed every time she cuts compared to the past before use. HellAtlantic, looking into other places so will let you know, have bloodwork coming up in 3 weeks to update as well.
 
Luxuriousbottlecap said (reddit 8 months ago):
IRC has third party tests performed. I value that for some things like Rad 140, MK-677, and SR9009 which are frequently either faked, or have purity issues.

PureRawz is cheaper, but you may as well be buying random sarms off of Ebay or Alibaba because they have zero quality control. No testing. They just take the COA they get from Lyphar at face value. So you may as well just buy directly from Lyphar off of Aliexpress and cut out the middle man.

For stuff like Ostarine, LGD, and S4, you might as well just buy from the original powder supplies in China. These substances have few if any purity issues. The ones selling on Aliexpress are the exact sources most domestic sarm sellers buy from(including IRC). So if they aren't even testing the powders, they're just literally functioning as middlemen.

I bought 4g of Ostarine powder direct for $30 including shipping. It seems fine so far.
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My friend had gotten some mk677 at auction where the guy had bought it from IRC and was re-selling what he had bought, He gave me 0.500g, and I dreamed it for a several weeks and I found it to be excellent, identical to the stuff I used to get from pure inferno nutrition who went out of business.
 
Luxuriousbottlecap said (reddit 8 months ago):
IRC has third party tests performed. I value that for some things like Rad 140, MK-677, and SR9009 which are frequently either faked, or have purity issues.

PureRawz is cheaper, but you may as well be buying random sarms off of Ebay or Alibaba because they have zero quality control. No testing. They just take the COA they get from Lyphar at face value. So you may as well just buy directly from Lyphar off of Aliexpress and cut out the middle man.

For stuff like Ostarine, LGD, and S4, you might as well just buy from the original powder supplies in China. These substances have few if any purity issues. The ones selling on Aliexpress are the exact sources most domestic sarm sellers buy from(including IRC). So if they aren't even testing the powders, they're just literally functioning as middlemen.

I bought 4g of Ostarine powder direct for $30 including shipping. It seems fine so far.
Click to expand...
My friend had gotten some mk677 at auction where the guy had bought it from IRC and was re-selling what he had bought, He gave me 0.500g, and I dreamed it for a several weeks and I found it to be excellent, identical to the stuff I used to get from pure inferno nutrition who went out of business.
 
tregar said:
Thanks for kind words Brienn8989. Those are great results Admin _error! (+153 points). My 6 month results (only 95 points) imho are bad and I blame it on the impure stuff I was using the past 2 months, plus I never really felt on top of it like I did with the pure stuff I took the first several months, I started taking the strong pure stuff 3 days ago, and feel great again, and will retest very soon when I feel I will get the high results back again like before hopefully (+145 points). I am sick and tired of getting bad stuff. Fortunately I kept several grams of the very pure strong stuff, and will be using that from now on. It's all very similar to HGH, the more pure, the better results you get just like pharm grade vs non-pharm grade. I will retest again in about 2 weeks. I can literally feel the difference, stronger dreams, more daily energy, better cognition, pump is back, etc. I love the very pure stuff. I have to increase the dosage an extra 10 to 15mg or more when using the not very pure stuff just to equal the same results as the very pure. This is all very frustrating, and why you need to get good HPLC rated stuff. This is a very difficult molecule to synthesize and the drying process and purification process need to be spot on.

very pure best great stuff I have dreamed: pure inferno nutrition and WuHan Vanz pharm china
ok but could be better stuff: xi pharm china
some very bad stuff: bought at auction

I have seen HPLC values on some other US powder suppliers that look promising, so I am looking into one or two in particular.

I have a slight problem with somatozine costing nearly $80.00 when it's only $15 a gram for powder from China, and since I take it in the morning, I don't want any melatonin in it like liquid somatozine. That's my only beef with it, no offense however. I can get 100 iu of pharm grade HGH fom China for 160.00, so somatozine is getting near the cost of real HGH, which could be used at 5iu on workdays for close to 475 ng/ml. I truly miss pure inferno nutrtion who had excellent mk677 powder (the one that gave me 145 point increase) for only $35 a gram. But I have seen others out there near $50 who claim to have excellent HPLC.
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No offense taken! I only got this since at the time I didn't want to get powder. Along with MA Labs being reputable. Once I am done with my last bottle I may do MA Research (HPLC tested)(no melatonin) and save some cash while being with the same company.
 
Sounds good Admin_error! Congrats again on the super high reading you got, it's the highest reading I have seen ever as 145 points higher was mine, with you at 153! That's great! Def equivalent to at least 4iu of pharm grade GH from China that they use to treat short stature in the hospitals as that is what I tested way back for a comparison.

I'm re-doing 6 month bloodwork tomorrow with this older high purity mk677, as I am confident it has me reading much higher igf-1 and GH, as I can really feel the difference the past few days (dreams stronger, better sleep, pumps & daytime energy & enhanced cognition all back), so I will report back with the results by Friday or so.

IRC.bio and narrowslabs in the running, in future will dream between the two to see if both spot on. I like their lab reports and have past dream exp with 0.5g of the irc.bio. Purerawz another one but don't know much about.
 
tregar said:
Sounds good Admin_error! Congrats again on the super high reading you got, it's the highest reading I have seen ever as 145 points higher was mine, with you at 153! That's great! Def equivalent to at least 4iu of pharm grade GH from China that they use to treat short stature in the hospitals as that is what I tested way back for a comparison.

I'm re-doing 6 month bloodwork tomorrow with this older high purity mk677, as I am confident it has me reading much higher igf-1 and GH, as I can really feel the difference the past few days (dreams stronger, better sleep, pumps & daytime energy & enhanced cognition all back), so I will report back with the results by Friday or so.

IRC.bio and narrowslabs in the running, in future will dream between the two to see if both spot on. I like their lab reports and have past dream exp with 0.5g of the irc.bio. Purerawz another one but don't know much about.
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I was looking at both those company yesterday, just wasn’t sure about the companies in general. Narrow labs seem legit by a few post on AM. Doing overall research on both companies seem good with good HPLC testing! So at least again I can keep track of those companies from you. Thank you for these posts!

I’m assuming powder would be lasting about 40 days correct @25mg dosing.

Right now I need to look around for HGH as I wouldn’t mine running a low does 2ui maybe 3 to complement the MK. As my GH reading came back a bit low. According to that lab test not an accurate measurement.

Overall this has been great information and again we both get to compare things! Thanks again!
 
Yes, correct 40 days at 25mg a day. Thanks for the kind words.

** Just had revised 6 month followup bloodwork done this morning with the very high purity stuff, will have results on Thur or Fri.

I am confident it has me reading much higher igf-1 and GH, as I can really feel the difference the past few days (dreams stronger, better sleep, pumps and daytime energy and enhanced cognition all back), this was the same very high purity stuff that had me up +145 points two weeks in back in March, and had me feeling great the several months I used it with good gains in the gym. I use 25mg each morning taken with my coffee. The "not so pure stuff" only gave a +95 point increase several days back, so I am hoping this very pure stuff (has a wicked punch to the taste buds and long lingering taste when swished around mouth for about an hour) will have me back up near 150 points or so.

MK677 obviously has purity issues, stick with very high purity, similar to what happens with high purity pharm grade HGH vs non pharm grade, it makes a huge difference. Can recommend irc at this time, narrowslabs and purerawz are two don't know about yet. Better purity vs best purity mk677 can mean the difference between raising your igf-1 by 95 points (better purity) vs 145 points (best purity). This is like 3iu vs 4iu of pharm grade gh from China. With only better quality mk677 I hardly notice a difference from my regular self, with best quality I strongly notice the qualities of daytime energy to better dreams and sleep and enhanced recuperation in the gym and slow but steady gains over time.

Difference in gym noticed as well this morning after being on old high purity mk677 for 5 days, recuperation is better, back and biceps day increased reps from last week from 4 reps of 65 each side to 9 reps of 65 each side on barbell row for back, db row for back increased from 5 reps of 90lbs to 8 reps of 90lbs, and barbell curl on ez bar increased from 7 reps of 37 lbs each side to 9 reps of 40lbs each side, traps row increased by 3 lbs for 2 extra reps as well.

In other news, walmart on-line slashed the price of 2lb buckets of met-rx pure protein powder from $25 to $15, some of the best protein on the planet, always have loved met-rx. It's quite a deal now. Use it every day.

Just wanted to say thanks 81dcs.
 
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