Bloodwork study of 4iu GH vs peptides & MK677 (similar to 2-3 iu GH)

tregar

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I am quite sure I will go back on the mk677 in 6 months time again, I found it really kicked ass, just want to keep it to 6 month cycles, as i feel it reaches it's potential during that time, just like the graphs show, reaching a peak at 2 weeks, then falling a bit, before climbing and reaching a steady state of around +100 points igf-1 increase from baseline daily.

The tiny bit of lost sleep (sleeping 8 hours instead of my normal 9 or more) was most likely due to increased stress do to my working a full time job (12 hours shifts) I have returned to normal now.

Plus I like the fact that I experienced no withdrawal or rebound symptoms upon stopping, that is a rarity with medicine, it's a farily benign (friendly) compound in that regard.

Just make sure you have pure stuff and that the taste is really nasty, not just barely acidic taste, I have noted extreme daily energy and clarity of mind perceptions depending on the vendor, it's a hard compound to synthesize. I will still give my review of narrowslabs in the future and return then. I will take it for a few days and report back. I did not like the latest irc.bio (only slightly acidic taste, and noted no daily changes in energy, dreams, clarity of thought, etc.). Stuff I had gotten directly from China for cheap was way, way, way better and very similar to the extremely good pure inferno nutrition that was sold for a while before closing.
 

LaserGoPewPew

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I have a feeling this stuff at 25mg for 2 weeks raised my igf-1 to a pretty decent level from a baseline of 227, as at the end of my 2nd week, I noticed moderate increases in strength (up 5+lbs) on all lifts upperbody, and an extra 10lbs added to squat and 20lbs to leg press, hamstring curl up 10lbs as well, very full feeling in the muscles, good nitrogen retention when combined with the 2grams per lb of body weight in protein, 50grams of that from met-rx daily after workout or with dinner on non-workout days. I plan on adding in 3grams of HMB next week daily to further increase LBM and strength.

I will have the results of the mk677 bloodwork at the end of the day on Friday.
tregar...

how do you think one dose of 12.5 mg MK in the morning, 100 mcg Ipamorelin in the AM, 100 mcg CJC 1257 in the AM + another dose of the peptides at night would shake out in terms of 1. fat loss 2. muscle gain 3. sleep quality 4. anti aging in genral
 
tregar

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Lasergopewpew said:
how do you think one dose of 12.5 mg MK in the morning, 100 mcg Ipamorelin in the AM, 100 mcg CJC 1257 in the AM + another dose of the peptides at night would shake out in terms of 1. fat loss 2. muscle gain 3. sleep quality 4. anti aging in genral
Due to the body's feedback mechanism that kicks into place around 2 days after taking any of the peptides/mk677, I still don't think it would be any different from just plain 25mg mk677 a day in the am unfortunately. No matter what combination of peptides are used, or just with plain mk677, bloodwork studies reveal only an increase of around 100 to 150 points max, there is just no forcing the body to go any higher than this...only way to go above 150 points increase in igf-1 is to use large amounts of HGH which bypass the body's feedback mechanism, unfortunate but just the way it is. However, 100 to 150 point increase is considered excellent for sleep, muscle gain over time in combination with test, and enhanced recuperation.

I am currently on my 6 month "off break" from mk677, as I used it for 8 months straight. I am only going to use it 6 months on then 6 months off, as you can tell from my bloodwork studies, you get a really good 100 point increase for 6 months on 25mg a day in the morning, but then your level increase begins to fall (just like the study posted above) after the 6 months....I have been off since November, so I will not go "on" again until April, just in time for when I spend much time outside in the waterparks and pools all summer. I have no problem with this 6 month on, 6 month off, as studies show you get optimum level increases for 6 months only, after that levels begin to drop from 100 points to only 75 point increase, etc...a downward slide due to drug tolerance. I feel great while off it, and I feel great when on it, so I love the whole cycling of it.
 

l1fterp1nk

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I have a question for you OP. As I understand GH has a great fat loss/utilization effect. Yet every log I have read on MK-677 has been for a bulk or resulted in fat gain. Why is this?
 

City Boy

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I have a question for you OP. As I understand GH has a great fat loss/utilization effect. Yet every log I have read on MK-677 has been for a bulk or resulted in fat gain. Why is this?
For me severe appetite increase and also can raise blood glucose levels
 

Lincoln

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At tregar

Hey can you pm.me i am.following your topic like to ask you some questions.
 
Old Witch

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I have a question for you OP. As I understand GH has a great fat loss/utilization effect. Yet every log I have read on MK-677 has been for a bulk or resulted in fat gain. Why is this?
It reduces insulin sensitivity.
 

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Any concerns around raised cortisol, cell mutation( raised cancer risk) and hyperplasia with MK677 as i hear these maybe side effects of MK677??
 
djbombsquad

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Any concerns around raised cortisol, cell mutation( raised cancer risk) and hyperplasia with MK677 as i hear these maybe side effects of MK677??
I take ps and herbs to keep cortisol stable . With any drug there can be risks and look at the cost to risk ratio and make your own choose.
 
tregar

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Studies found no raise in cortisol, see here: http://mindandmuscle.net/articles/beauty-modern-science-ibutamoren-mk-677/
During the 1st two weeks (when your levels increase around +150 igf-1 !) you many get a tiny bit less sleep than normal due to a very, very slight increase which levels out after that period, but your sleep will still be good and you will wake up refreshed regardless. Totally normal good sleep after those 1st two weeks....that is what I noticed personally. MK677 was actually found to help increase sleep quality and REM sleep duration. There are a couple pages written about mk677 in the book "Grow young with HGH" by Ronald Klatz, overall great book period on HGH.

Keep in mind your levels only stay around +150 increase in igf-1 during those 1st two weeks, then they level out and peak at around +100 igf-1 points after that for the next 6 months. I've done 5 bloodwork studies on the stuff and HGH seperately, so could help the community out...and notice my bloodwork studies jive with what the MK677 studies found as well.

Notice that when I am on mk677, my level of 322 ng/ml is near the high end of 358 ng/ml for a teenager, I could not be happier.

1fterp1nk said:
I have a question for you OP. As I understand GH has a great fat loss/utilization effect. Yet every log I have read on MK-677 has been for a bulk or resulted in fat gain. Why is this?
Yes, this is true, if you read all the mk677 studies, you will find that the study administrators were surprised to learn that there was really no fat loss with mk677 by itself as there is seen with HGH. However, there was seen a rather large increase in nitrogen retention with mk677. Every drug is different. I go back on mk677 in April (after being "off" for 6 months)...I explain my reasoning for this 6 month on/6 month off cycle above...as I found thru bloodwork it keeps levels as high as they can be (just like the studies found) before levels begin to fall rather than keep climbing and maintaining a peak of +100 points igf-1....drug tolerance....see the graph below.

This "off period of 6 months" would also be a great time to go onto real HGH shots if you choose, or just stay at your natural HGH levels (which for me is around 227 ng/ml). It's a great way to keep costs down. I can't go on hgh as it raises my bloodpressure too much.
 

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TheSuppGuy

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Studies found no raise in cortisol, see here: http://mindandmuscle.net/articles/beauty-modern-science-ibutamoren-mk-677/
During the 1st two weeks (when your levels increase around +150 igf-1 !) you many get a tiny bit less sleep than normal due to a very, very slight increase which levels out after that period, but your sleep will still be good and you will wake up refreshed regardless. Totally normal good sleep after those 1st two weeks....that is what I noticed personally. MK677 was actually found to help increase sleep quality and REM sleep duration. There are a couple pages written about mk677 in the book "Grow young with HGH" by Ronald Klatz, overall great book period on HGH.

Keep in mind your levels only stay around +150 increase in igf-1 during those 1st two weeks, then they level out and peak at around +100 igf-1 points after that for the next 6 months. I've done 5 bloodwork studies on the stuff and HGH seperately, so could help the community out...and notice my bloodwork studies jive with what the MK677 studies found as well.

Notice that when I am on mk677, my level of 322 ng/ml is near the high end of 358 ng/ml for a teenager, I could not be happier.

1fterp1nk said:
Yes, this is true, if you read all the mk677 studies, you will find that the study administrators were surprised to learn that there was really no fat loss with mk677 by itself as there is seen with HGH. However, there was seen a rather large increase in nitrogen retention with mk677. Every drug is different. I go back on mk677 in April (after being "off" for 6 months)...I explain my reasoning for this 6 month on/6 month off cycle above...as I found thru bloodwork it keeps levels as high as they can be (just like the studies found) before levels begin to fall rather than keep climbing and maintaining a peak of +100 points igf-1....drug tolerance....see the graph below.

This "off period of 6 months" would also be a great time to go onto real HGH shots if you choose, or just stay at your natural HGH levels (which for me is around 227 ng/ml). It's a great way to keep costs down if you choose to use HGH, as you only have to use it 1/2 of the year. As each 1 iu of pharm grade Chinese hgh gives me a raise of +95 points igf-1, 4 iu a day is 380 igf-1, and 5 iu would be 475 igf-1. However, this is at a monetary cost of around $175 for 5 weeks to use 4iu a day x 5 days with weekends off. MK677 keeps my levels at around 322 ng/ml during the 6 month period I am on it (a raise of +95 points above normal 227 ng/ml). Even though I have a couple hgh kits in fridge, decided to use the 2 kits I have in Feb and March, then go back on mk677 by itself in April for another 6 months. And no, it does not cause any lethargy or anxiety whatsoever for me at 25mg every morning, I respond very well to it. Love the way it makes me feel and perform. But everyone is different. I have to be careful with HGH as it raises my blood pressure, but mk677 does not at all. This is why I prefer to stay natural for much of the time when off of mk677.
View attachment 178353
What about gyno? How should you avoid that lactin thing that people have been talking about?
 

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bump to this as well. also insulin resistance.

you say 6 months on 6 months off, but ive also read levels peak in about 2 months, so 2 months on 1 month off method was also suggested. Looking for what is optimal way to run
 

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This is (Admin_Error) So I'm going to add one last thing here since tregar has a bit more active users. I will post this in my thread to, but should fit well right here. Maybe he should add this to his first page?

So we all know there a tolerance level with mk-677 and after while your not as high as you once were. We also know Thyroid problems can also affect said levels. I spoke with my Dr today and we can both agree that for me that TOLERANCE LEVEL was a lot sooner than expected.Admin_Error
I wonder if elevated prolactin from hypothyroidism is the issue here?
 
tregar

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Looking at the chart in post #261, it does not look like anyone's levels peaked until 6 months, same happened with me, as I took several blood tests every couple months to track. But if you have a thyroid problem, perhaps then levels will peak way sooner and even cause the prolactin problems as suggested by catsnake as a possibility? I'm not familiar with any gyno lactin problems, had no such issues. I have yet to see anyone who has taken mk677 for as long as 6 months like myself, many dropped out complaining of lethargy. I had no such lethargy issues either. Getting good stuff is another problem for some it seems--I ran into bad mk677 twice, once from ebay, and once another place mentioned pages back. I stick with direct from China or pure inferno nutrition was A+++ for only 35 a gram, but they are gone.
 
TheSuppGuy

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Looking at the chart in post #261, it does not look like anyone's levels peaked until 6 months, same happened with me, as I took several blood tests every couple months to track. But if you have a thyroid problem, perhaps then levels will peak way sooner and even cause the prolactin problems as suggested by catsnake as a possibility? I'm not familiar with any gyno lactin problems, had no such issues. I have yet to see anyone who has taken mk677 for as long as 6 months like myself, many dropped out complaining of lethargy. I had no such lethargy issues either. Getting good stuff is another problem for some it seems--I ran into bad mk677 twice, once from ebay, and once another place mentioned pages back. I stick with direct from China or pure inferno nutrition was A+++ for only 35 a gram, but they are gone.
How is bad MK677? I bought from two eBay stores...
 
tregar

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I have gotten good mk677 from ebay too, just once did I get some that was subpar, around a year ago. Around a year ago, my friend had gotten some that was completely bunk from the bay, he got his money back though, but the guy kept on selling on ebay anyways. He was a new person with only a couple sales, just be careful.
 
bluestaffy09

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Has anyone tried somatozine? I'm using muscle rage at the moment but need to try another brand to compare. Been taking for around a week now, already had gyno not sure if it's making it worse or not yet but I'm taking cabergoline too as my prolactin was over 500.
 

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tregar

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As of today 2/22/2019 I am going back on mk677 25mg each morning, after being off it for almost 5 months.

Tried giving 5iu of HGH a shot for 3 days, but by the 3rd day, my bloodpressure was high, and I slept badly, kept waking up throughout the night, my body just does not tolerate HGH well, this same thing happened to me last time I tried to use it a year ago. Sticking with mk677 only. I will take another bloodwork after being on the mk677 only for 4 weeks from today, will pull bloods around end of March 2019.

IGF-1 range for older adults = 59 to 225 ng/ml
IGF-1 range for young adults is 116 to 358 ng/ml

4-6-18, baseline igf -1 = 227 ng/ml-------------------------------------------------- baseline
4-11-18, 2 days on 4iu of Chinese pharm grade HGH = 380 ng/ml---------increase of 153 points
4-25-18, 2 weeks on mk677 only = 372 ng/ml------------------------------------increase of 145 points (this nearly 150 point increase only lasts 2 weeks)
9-7-18, 6 months on mk677 only = 322 ng/ml------------------------------------increase of 95 points
11-2-18, 8 months on mk677 only = 304 ng/ml-----------------------------------increase of 75 points (levels start to fall after 6 months on mk677)
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new year:
3-22-19, 4 weeks on mk677 only = xxx ng/ml-------------------------------------increase of xxx points, upcoming soon

Notice in the graph below from mk677 study, how levels remain high for 6 months, but then begin to fall after that.
mk study graph.jpg
 
LifeisGood301

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Hey so I've been lurking on this thread for the past week, but I didn't have an account so uh here I am lol.
This research is really good Tregar! It has been super useful for me. I was looking into CDP Choline and MK-677 b/c I knew Choline Sources can easily convert to Acetylcholine in the body from nootropic experience. And yeah can't forget to add Vitamin B5 for Coenzyme A production!

So I have this study to add to the conversation:
Effects of cytidine 5'-diphosphocholine administration on basal and growth hormone-releasing hormone-induced growth hormone secretion in elderly subjects. (I can't post links)
Abstract
The basal and GH-releasing hormone-stimulated secretion of GH declines in the elderly. We tested the ability of cytidine 5'-diphosphocholine, a drug used in the treatment of stroke and Parkinson's disease, to alter GH secretion in 11 healthy elderly volunteers, aged 69-84. Each subject received an iv infusion of 2 g of cytidine 5'-diphosphocholine or normal saline. GHRH and TRH were also administered during cytidine 5'-diphosphocholine infusions. The infusion of cytidine 5'-diphosphocholine induced a 4-fold (p less than 0.05) increase in serum GH levels over basal values. A small increase in GH was seen after GHRH administration. However, the addition of GHRH to the cytidine 5'-diphosphocholine infusion resulted in a GH response which was significantly greater than that seen after GHRH alone; the integrated concentration of GH was more than 2-fold greater in the cytidine 5'-diphosphocholine treated group (706.85 +/- 185.1 vs 248.9 +/- 61.4 micrograms.l-1.(120 min)-1; p = 0.01). The PRL and TSH responses to TRH were not significantly affected by cytidine 5'-diphosphocholine infusion, indicating that dopaminergic mechanisms are not involved. These studies demonstrate that cytidine 5'-diphosphocholine can enhance basal and GHRH-stimulated GH release in the elderly, but the mechanism of action of the drug remains unclear.
So basically 4x fold increase in HG Serum levels from CDP Choline Alone (2g mind you, that's a lot lol) and 8x increase when combined with GNRH.
Since MK-677 is pretty much bioidentical of GHRP6, I'm pretty sure the effects should be similar
 
LifeisGood301

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Also, I have no idea if this has been touched on already but I wanted to chime in.
The idea that huperzine A is a somatostatin inhibitor is true but a lil misleading imo. From my knowledge that idea came from the this study:
Pyridostigmine, an Acetylcholinesterase Inhibitor, Stimulates Growth Hormone Release, but has no Effect on Basal Thyrotrophin or Adrenocorticotrophin Levels, or the Thyrotrophin Response to Thyrotrophin-Releasing Hormone.
However, people say huperzine A is also an acetylcholinesterase inhibtor...so it should increase free acetylcholine levels...but Huperzine A and Pyridostigmine are not exactly the same, and I'm pretty sure Pyridostigmine is a stronger inhibtor than Huperzine A mg for mg. I think the literature says Somatostatin and Acetylcholine have an inverse relationship...but I'm not sure how much evidence there is in humans that extra Acetylcholine = lower somatastatin. I know this study with rats exists:
Acetylcholine inhibits the release of somatostatin from rat hypothalamus in vitro.
 
djbombsquad

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Bloodwork study of 4iu GH vs peptides & MK677 (similar to 2-3 iu GH)

So mk677 with cdp choline is better than with huperzine A?
 
LifeisGood301

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So mk677 with cdp choline is better than with huperzine A?
I think so, and I think most would believe that as well. There is evidence for CDP-Choline increasing GH in that study I listed, and there isn't evidence for Huperzine A increasing GH. But we don't know for sure.

On top of that I've done more research:
"In general, if you have two dru** that inhibit AChE, if this were their only mode of action, it would be reasonable to expect similar effects. However, seldom do two dru** have exactly the same pharmacological profile, which can be due in part to their actions on other targets. In addition, you need to consider the pharmacokinetics. For example, you need to consider the tissue distribution of inhibition and the time-course of inhibition. Note that huperzine A is a tight-binding inhibitor whereas physostigmine carbamylates the active site serine. However, the carbamylated serine can be reactivated by aqueous hydrolysis to regenerate the active enzyme." ~Rudy J Richardson University of Michigan

So uh, I think that's another strike against Huperzine A, but since it does increase Acetylcholine levels it should have some effect. But there isn't any research to my knowledge on it effecting GH even though theoridically it should
 
djbombsquad

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What about alpha gpc for gh too ?
 
tregar

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Great info Lifeisgood301, and thanks for kind words. Good to see you again djbombsquad. On the choline, I just ordered a huge bag of choline bitartrate powder from bulksupplements, dirt cheap at $20 for 1kg. I've always been a fan of choline bitartrate from the days of choline cocktail which was the form of choline they used, made by twinlabs. I find it much cheaper than the 2 forms of choline alpha gpc and cdp. Thanks for the study Lifeisgood301.

Anyhow, I am feeling incredible after being on the mk677 again for 3 days now, recuperation from workouts is enhanced and speedy, great energy during the day, feel very good mood wise, and super sleep. I could not tolerate the 5iu of pharm grade gh, as I tried it for 3 days straight, but by the 3rd day my bloodpressure was very high, and kept waking up during the night, tossing and turning with bad sleep, my body just does not tolerate hgh injections, as same thing happened a year ago, but the mk677 is working fabulous, I'm probably getting about the 370 ng/ml a day reading in igf-1 during these 1st two to three weeks, which is beyond the high range of a young adult age 16 to 18. will post bloodwork again after being on 4 weeks at end of march.

I also 3 days ago added in 1250mg of CLA x 2 tablets 1/2 hour before meals along with 1.25 grams of betaine anhydrous (from bulk supplements) x twice a day for super fat loss....as mk677 has no effects on fat loss by itself (unlike with hgh injections) but mk677 does have super nitrogen retention in place of that drawback. I am also using 200mg of ALA (see study below) before every meal as it is an insulin mimicker that works really well to help shuttle nutrients to muscles and away from fat stores. I am working on increasing my dose slowly of this to 400mg before every meal. I also use around 4g of hmb per day with creatine. Also on 150mg of Test cyp a week (75mg x twice a week shots) with gives me a reading of 1210 ng/ml as the 200mg test cyp a week I was using before was too high at 1422 ng/ml.

Here are some studies on CLA + betaine. I am using the sports research brand CLA with 95% cla at 180 caps for $20 with 4,200 reviews, and the 1kg betaine anhydrous for $11 from bulk supplements with 650 reviews.

1) Weight loss faster with alpha-lipoic acid, in the group that took 1800mg alpha-lipoic acid per day the effect was statistically significant.
http://www.ergo-log.com/weight-loss-faster-with-alpha-lipoic-acid.html
alphalipoicacidweightloss.gif


2) Betaine increases muscle mass by 5.3 pounds + major fat loss over placebo
1.25 grams betaine twice per day for 6 weeks with weight training
The betaine group was able to increase their training volume to a greater extent and showed decreased fat mass (-6.4 pounds) and increased lean body mass (5.3 pounds),
whereas the placebo group showed essentially no change.
Betain_article_graph.jpg

Betaine is an amino acid derivative. Its role as a potential athletic enhancer has only been looked at in a few studies, but that research has revealed some interesting findings.

Betaine primarily works as an osmolyte (a substance that attracts water), whereby it protects cells during periods of dehydration by increasing cellular water content. Betaine may also play a role in choline metabolism and other methyl donating reactions which are increasingly being linked to general health and the preferential use of fat for fuel.

My research colleagues performed a study to test the effects of betaine on strength and power performance. After performing a battery of performance tests, healthy resistance-trained men supplemented with betaine (1.25 grams twice per day) or placebo for 14 days. They then performed the same battery of tests. After a washout period they crossed over and did the same 14 day supplementation protocol with the other supplement. Compared to placebo, betaine supplementation improved bench press power, isometric bench press force, vertical jump power, and isometric squat force.

In a follow-up study, we showed that betaine supplementation increased anabolic hormone response to resistance exercise and anabolic signaling in skeletal muscle, which is consistent with an overall greater potential for building muscle mass.

A recent study confirmed these anabolic effects in a resistance training study where two groups supplemented with betaine (2.5 g/day) or placebo for 6 weeks. The betaine group was able to increase their training volume to a greater extent and showed decreased fat mass (-6.4 pounds) and increased lean body mass (5.3 pounds), whereas the placebo group showed essentially no change. These studies point to betaine as a beneficial supplement for improving the body’s response to exercise training. Betaine is an ingredient that is typically found as one of the many ingredients in pre-workout formulas.

References:

J Int Soc Sports Nutr. 2010 Jul 19;7:27.

Eur J Appl Physiol. 2013 Mar;113(3):793-802.

J Int Soc Sports Nutr. 2013 Aug 22;10(1):39.

3) Superstack: CLA + betaine
Betaine had a stimulatory effect on amino acid metabolism, and thus strengthened the modifying effect of CLA on body composition.
http://www.ergo-log.com/betacla.html
clabetaine.gif


4) Bodybuilders progress faster with 5g CLA per day, 7 weeks study
clabodycomp.gif


5) Study shows CLA reduces bodyfat 20%
CLA_Reduced_BodyFat_Chart_08-17.jpg

Lose a full inch from your waistband

The researchers who first identified CLA also observed its fat-reducing abilities. Dr. Mike Pariza of the University of Wisconsin noticed that animals being fed CLA ate less food and carried less body fat than animals not supplemented with CLA. He then discovered that a diet including 0.5% CLA resulted in animals with 50% to 75% less body fat! 2 *

In human studies, people who took CLA lost about a full inch from their waistbands over 12 weeks – compared to a control group who took no CLA and did not have a significant change in waist measurement. The groups had no change in eating or exercise habits during the period.3*

In another study, 1,800 mg of CLA taken daily for three months was related to up to a 20% decrease in body fat.4*

References:
1 Dorscheid D.R., scientific review of more than 200 published research and clinical studies on CLA, 2000.

2 Source: Natural Incorporated, 2000.

3 Riserus U., et. al., "Conjugated linoleic acid (CLA) reduced abdominal adipose tissue in obese middle-aged men with signs of the metabolic syndrome: a randomized controlled trial," International Journal of Obesity. 2001; 25(8): 1129-1135.

4 Thom E., et. al., "Conjugated linoleic acid reduces body fat in healthy exercising humans.” Journal of International Medical Research. 2001; 29: 392-396.
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I will be back at end of March to post 2019 bloodwork after being on mk677 25mg a morning for 4 weeks.
 
djbombsquad

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Any one take betaine for igf1 reasons ?
 

_Endure_

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Tregar have you tried bulks beatine tmg? Trying to figure out the difference there as opposed to the standard hcl.
 
djbombsquad

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I’m currently using top muscle with humanogen
 
tregar

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Yes, _endure_

"Betaine Anhydrous Trimethylglycine (TMG) Powder 1,000g" is what you want for $22, at 1.25 grams x twice a day will last 2 years. The hcl is fine too but I find it too acidic and rough on the teeth if you gulp it down with water like I do.

Just wanted to add that after a few days on mk677, I noticed the dreams everynight to be quite impressive, elaborate & vivid, just like I remember from last year. There is a nice synergy between the mk677, ALA, hmb, creatine, betaine (tmg) & cla. The added CLA and betaine are great for fat loss and muscle gain as the mk677 on it's own has been shown in studies to not result in much fat loss (unlike with hgh injections). Studies have shown a 20% increase in strength in very old untrained adults with mk677, but I find it more potent, at around a 30% or more increase in strength, enhanced recovery, positive mood and energy all day. Makes me feel super human, some get lethargy, but none at all here.

I noticed many companies have raised their price on mk677 powder up to almost 60 dollars here in the us, don't pay more than you have to, have gotten it direct from china (xi'an Lyphar biotech & others) with 7 day delivery at 200 dollar minimum with 25 shipping comes out to around 20 a gram or so. They use super discreet shipping too. A great scale to use is AWS GPR-20 20g x 0.001g (1mg scale) best 1mg scale on the market but it is around hundred bucks.
--------------------------------------------------
ALA is great stuff, see below, also see Derek's article on HMB

HMB and Derek's personal results with it during competition: https://www.bodybuilding.com/content/hmb-overrated-overpriced-or-overlooked-part1.html

Alpha Lipoic Acid (ALA) Part 2 by Derek Charlebois
September 24, 2018 • 4 min read

Alpha Lipoic Acid (ALA) has been getting a lot of attention lately. Making more and more people try it. From what I read and what other people have told me, ALA sounds like a great supplement.

Before we get into ALA, let's take a look at what happens to food when it enters the body.

A normal meal:

Food is consumed.
This food is converted into glucose for energy.
Insulin is released by the pancreas to shuttle the glucose into muscle and fat cells (assuming liver glycogen levels are full). Once the muscle cells are full, all excess glucose is shuttled to fat cells.

Now let's look at a meal taken with ALA:

Food is consumed.
This food is converted into glucose for energy.
Insulin is released by the pancreas to shuttle the glucose into muscle and fat cells. Once the muscle cells are full, all excess glucose is shuttled to fat cells.

Now this is where ALA comes into play. In order for glucose to be carried into cells, it must be attached to insulin. ALA is shown to have an insulin mimicking effect. So then more glucose would be shuttled to fat cells because the muscle cells are full, right? Wrong! Studies show that ALA increases Glut-4 transporters on the outside of muscle cells. This means more glucose can be shuttled into muscle cells and away from fat cells. Studies show that the amount of glucose shuttled to your muscles can increase from 50-60%. For those who are not that good in math: This means if you ate 100 carbs and originally without ALA, 40 grams of glucose went to your muscles cells and the rest, 60 grams, went to fat cells. Now, by supplementing with ALA, you have the power to send 60 grams of glucose and only 40 to fat cells. That is a big difference! How you ask.

Insulin Effect

ALA has an insulin like effect. It does not take the place of insulin, only mimics it. (To learn about insulin and its effects you can read my Insulin article). ALA has been shown to increase glucose uptake by mimicking insulin and shuttling it to Glut-4 receptors as mentioned above. Because ALA has increased the number of Glut-4 receptors on the outside of the muscle, more glucose can be absorbed.

Effects of Increased Glucose Uptake

This increase of glucose does many positive things. These include:

Increased pump
Less fat accumulation
Increases Amino Acid transport
Increases creatine
Increased insulin sensitivity

Increased Pump

The increased pump is due to the increase in glucose uptake. Not only does this feel great, but it also contributes to muscle growth. By increasing the muscle cells volume, but nutrients are able to be shuttled to the muscle. Hence increased muscle growth.
Less Fat Accumulation

Again, due to the increase in glucose uptake by muscles cells, less glucose is stored as fat. ALA also lowers one's blood sugar levels, creating a more suitable atmosphere for fat burning.

Increased Amino Acid and Creatine Uptake

This comes back to the increased pump. Because the muscle cells are in an enlarged state, more amino acids and creatine can reach them. Insulin increases amino acid and creatine uptake. Remember, ALA mimics insulin, which means it also increases amino acid and creatine uptake. There are a ton of creatine products on the market that are loaded with sugar. This is because sugar causes an insulin spike, which carries the creatine to muscle cells. The problem with this is an excess amount of sugar with cause you to gain fat. By supplementing with ALA you can carry more creatine to muscle cells without swallowing 75+ grams of sugar. I still recommend taking a simple sugary carb after your workout, but ALA can increase creatine uptake while you take a lower amount of sugar. This is very important for those who are cutting. They can get the same effects post workout without having to worry about storing excess carbs as fat.

Increased Insulin Sensitivity

This is great news for bodybuilders! When I go on a bulking cycle. I find that about after two months, my gains slow drastically. One way to combat this is to go on a brief cutting cycle to and your insulin sensitivity rebuild. Supplementing with ALA could allow you to add more mass as a result of your insulin sensitivity not reducing.

Results During Cutting vs. Bulking

Results will differ depends on your diet. If you are bulking, you can expect to less fat and more muscle gain because of ALA nutrient partitioning effect.

Results from cutting are increased fat loss and a muscle sparing effect. Because your muscles are storing more glucose, your muscles will not become as depleted as they usually do when cutting. This helps you look full and not flat.

Dosage (per day)

200-600 mg will increase insulin sensitivity and lower blood glucose levels. Lower than 200 mg won't give you noticeable effects, except for ALA antioxidant properties. 600 mg-1200 mg will give you an increase in #1 1200-2000 will give you an increase in #1 and more noticeable fat loss. 3000 mg is "said" (Not a fact, just what has worked best for ALA users) to be the ideal dose to assist in massive fat loss, increase in insulin sensitivity, and increasing glucose.

I got these doses from experienced ALA users and other information I've read. They are a general ranges. It is best to divide you dosages up throughout the day. For example, if you are taking 1000 mg a day. You could take:

300 mg with breakfast
200 mg with a carb meal
300 mg post workout
200 mg with last meal
Buying ALA

When buying ALA, you have to be careful. ALA is very unstable and rapidly degrades when exposed to the outside atmosphere. Some people think that as long as it is not exposed to atmospheric conditions for extended periods of time, it will be fine. But even a brief period of time can cause massive degeneration of the product. That is why it is not wise to buy ALA in powder form. It is most likely useless. An especially big no-no is buying creatine products with ALA already in them. The only thing you are paying for is the creatine, because there isn't any ALA in those tubs. The solution, buy ALA in capsules! Most companies are very careful when capping their ALA. AST, for example, uses ALA that is vacuum packed in UV protected plastic. Therefore, I do not recommend buying ALA from no name companies. I'm not saying their ALA is not quality ALA, but it's your money and I know I'd rather play it safe.

Well there is what ALA can do for you. In my next article, we will look at different tests and scientific data that backs up what is stated above.
Using Dr Dr. Danielle's Alpha Lipoic Acid, RALA, Extremely High Quality Alpha R Lipoic Acid R-ALA)R- ALA, which has 300mg R+ entainomer, as in laboratory animals, the R+ entainomer caused a 34% increase in glucose uptake by skeletal muscle cells in response to insulin while those fed the S- entainomer had no improvement in blood glucose disposal (9).

(9) Streeper RS, Henriksen EJ, Jacob S, Hokama JY, Fogt DL, Tritschler HJ. Differential effects of lipoic acid stereoisomers on glucose metabolism in insulin-resistant skeletal muscle. Am J Physiol. 1997 Jul;273(1 Pt 1):E185-91.

Derek on HMB:
My Last 4 Weeks Of Cutting

Over the last four weeks of dieting (Summer 2004), I have been consuming about 2,500 calories a day. The prime supplements that played a role in what I am about to show you are Black Star Labs' NitroJet, Avant Lab's Leptigen, and HMB. I was also using two supplements geared towards fat loss Avant Lab's SesaThin and HEAT.

I gained 0.795 pounds of lean mass WHILE losing 2.295 pounds of fat. Gaining muscle while losing fat? I thought that wasn't possible?

What is more impressive to me is I gained almost a full pound of lean mass over that two-week period, which would be an impressive gain even while bulking. So what changed during the second two weeks from the first two weeks in the above table? The change was the addition of HMB.

During the first two weeks, I was getting 3 grams of HMB a day. During week three, I added 3 more grams of HMB a day for a total of 6 grams of HMB per day. During the fourth week, I added another 2 grams of HMB for a total of 8 grams of HMB a day.

I should also note that these high doses of HMB (6 and 8 grams) were only taken on Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday (the days I weight trained) with 5 grams per day on Wednesday, Saturday, and Sunday (cardio and rest days).

Does this mean HMB works? Does it have merit? The above is only one person's results (and yes I will be experimenting with HMB in the future). What do the research articles say?
 
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I found a person's idea of 3 weeks on, 3 weeks off interesting with the mk677. I will continue to stick with the 6 months on, 5 months off however.

The only side effect have noticed as usual is the increased appetite, this dies down after a couple months. Will power can help with this. But it's not too bad, easy to bulk muscle at least.

With over a 100 point increase in igf-1, this I believe is what correlates with the approximate 30% increase in strength, as going from 227 to 370 ng/ml (1st 2 to 3 weeks) then 320 ng/ml is about a 1/3rd increase in igf-1, which does relate to around a 30% increase in strength, the studies with very old mk677 users found a 20% increase in strength, but those were untrained individuals who also had achieved much less gain in overall igf-1 points.

As mentioned above, high quality mk677 can be gotten direct from china for around $20 a gram, just also buy a good 1mg scale.

The good: no lethargy with this individual, great sleep with fantastic dreams, good pumps, 30% increase in strength, super recovery from workouts, good energy during day, positive good sense of well being, and it's cheap compared to HGH, for those who can tolerate HGH, can even be alternated with it. I wish I could tolerate HGH at 5iu a day, but just not possible unfortunately with me
 
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The reason I bring up alpha lipoic acid and especially R-alpha-lipoic acid is because mk677 and hgh both reduce insulin sensitivity a bit, and there are things you can do to improve this situation. See Dereck's article above on how ALA increases Glut-4 transporters on the outside of muscle cells. Here is some data below that backs up Dereck's article.

http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/50/6/1464
hxxp://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/50/6/1464
In conclusion, our data suggest that α-lipoic acid stimulates glucose uptake by translocating and regulating the intrinsic activity of GLUT4 (Fig. 8). The latter effect may be mediated by stimulating the p38 MAPK or a closely related SB202190- and SB203580-sensitive target. Collectively, these results further support a role of α-lipoic acid as an antidiabetic agent in the treatment of diabetes (1).

The observed stimulation of glucose uptake by the various antidiabetic agents (sulfonylureas, the biguanide metformin, and an emerging number of thiazolidinediones) was much less prominent than the effect of α-lipoic acid. This potent antioxidant was also able to improve insulin-stimulated glucose transport in different animal models of type 1 and 2 diabetes (1).
(1) The Antihyperglycemic Drug α-Lipoic Acid Stimulates Glucose Uptake via Both GLUT4 Translocation and GLUT4 Activation, Daniel Konrad1,2, Romel Somwar1,3, Gary Sweeney1,Karen Yaworsky1, Michiko Hayashi1, Toolsie Ramlal1 and Amira Klip1,3, Diabetes 2001 Jun; 50(6): 1464-1471
---------------------------------------------------------------
Another great 2012 article: "Told you so: BCAAs are anticatabolic"

http://www.ergo-log.com/bcaasareanticatabolic.html
hxxp://www.ergo-log.com/bcaasareanticatabolic.html
Strength athletes have been using BCAAs during their workouts for decades. BCAAs are believed to inhibit the breakdown of muscle tissue, and this is not just a figment of the imagination of supplements makers. Sports scientists at the Astrand Laboratory in Sweden published the results of a study that confirms this in the American Journal of Physiology – Endocrinology and Metabolism.

BCAAs

As their name suggests, BCAAs, or branched-chain amino acids, are amino acids with a branched side chain. The side chain makes the job of the enzymes in muscle cells, converting amino acids into energy during intensive exertion, easier. That's why your muscle cells are happy to convert BCAAs into energy during an intensive training session, and that's why athletes are fond of BCAA supplements.

The more BCAAs you have in your muscles, the slower your muscle cells break down muscle fibre. The anabolic stimulus from your training remains the same, but you experience less muscle breakdown, so you build up more muscle mass.

Actually, this isn't the whole story, as BCAAs have other effects too. Leucine is an anabolic stimulant for muscle cells, leucine and isoleucine stimulate fat burning in muscle cells, and isoleucine boosts the muscle cells' glucose uptake. [J Nutr. 2005 Sep;135(9):2103-8.] But the emphasis in this new Swedish study is on the anticatabolic effect of BCAAs.

Study

The researchers did an experiment with seven healthy test subjects, who didn't normally do weight training. The researchers got them to train their legs by doing leg-presses. After an extensive warming up, they did 4 sets of 10 reps at 89 percent of their 1RM, followed by 4 sets of 15 reps at 65 percent of their 1RM.

The test subjects exercised one leg, and rested the other one.

On one occasion the subjects drank a sports drink that contained no active ingredients; on the other occasion they were given a drink containing BCAAs. If you want to know the exact composition: the BCAAs consisted of 45 percent leucine, 30 percent valine and 25 percent isoleucine. They used Ajinomoto products from Japan.

The subjects drank just before, during and just after their workout 150 ml of the sports drink, and then another 150 ml 15 and 45 minutes after training. In total the subjects consumed 900 ml sports drink. Per kg bodyweight they consumed 85 mg BCAAs. If you weigh 80 kg that amounts to 6.8 g BCAAs, which is not an extreme dose.

Results

The supplementation boosted the BCAA concentration in the muscles and blood and activated the classic anabolic signal molecules in the muscle cells, mTOR and p70S6k. Nothing new.

--> What was new was that the BCAAs reduced the concentration of the catabolic protein MAFbx, and inhibited the increase in the catabolic MuRF-1 as a result of training.

MAFbx and MuRF-1 are ubiquitins. They attach themselves to muscle proteins and then attract a molecular shredder – the proteasome – to the muscle proteins that are to be broken down.

Conclusion

"These observations, together with the BCAA-induced enlargement in p70S6k phosphorylation and attenuation of MAFbx expression and MuRF-1 total protein provide additional support for the view that BCAA has an anabolic effect on human skeletal muscle, an effect which appears to be similar in resting and exercising human muscle", the Swedes conclude.

The researchers were not funded by the supplements industry, but by the Swedish National Centre for Research in Sports, the Swedish School of Sport and Health Sciences and the Karolinska Institutet.
 
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Question:
Tregar just curious why 5 months off?
I'm just sticking with the rule of staying off the same time as the time that I was "on" in hopes of keeping the substance just as effective as when first used, and to allow the body to maintain homeostasis (or bounce back to where it was before) when off the compound. There is the unfortunate side effect of the mk677 becoming less effective over a long period of time, so just trying to decrease drug tolerance and keep it effective. I have no idea if this is the proper way to utilize the substance or not, but I'm giving it a shot. It's sort of like how people use steroid cycles, same time off as same time on, to allow the body to recuperate and go back to normal. As mentioned earlier, if you can tolerate HGH, then there is the possibility of using it while off the mk677. There are so many different scenarios I can think of. But I do think a longer period of many months on mk677 is necessary to see good results, just like with hgh.
 
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Be back end of march with 2nd year bloodwork 4 weeks on mk677

In conclusion, posted above and below are some favorite studies:

1) mk677 graph which shows increased igf-1 levels remain very strong for first 6 months

2) how to improve insulin sensitivity while on mk677 or HGH with R-ALA

3) intermittent fasting for fat loss and muscle gain (eat only 8 hours during day, then fast for

16 hours including sleep) example: eat between 7am and 2pm, don't eat between 3pm same day till

7am the following morning.

4) how bcaa's and L-arginine prevent cardio induced muscle breakdown

5) how bcaa's prevent muscle breakdown during & after workouts

6) betaine gives more muscle and less fat

7) betaine + CLA better than just betaine or CLA alone for muscle gain & fat loss

8) Bodybuilders progress faster with 5 grams CLA daily

9) post-strength training shake with just whey works better than a shake with whey and carbs
for fat free mass
----------------------------------------------------------------------
1) Experienced strength athletes lose fat by intermittent fasting, not muscle mass or strength

http://www.ergo-log.com/strength-athletes-lose-fat-by-intermittent-fasting-not-muscle-mass-or-

strength.html
hxxp://www.ergo-log.com/strength-athletes-lose-fat-by-intermittent-fasting-not-muscle-mass-or-

strength.html

pic 1.gif


2) Build muscle mass, increase endurance capacity and lose fat through intermittent fasting

http://www.ergo-log.com/build-muscle-mass-increase-endurance-capacity-lose-fat-through-

intermittent-fasting.html
hxxp://www.ergo-log.com/build-muscle-mass-increase-endurance-capacity-lose-fat-through-

intermittent-fasting.html

Intermittent fasting makes you slimmer

The figures below show the body composition and fat percentage of different groups of mice.

Whether the animals were on a healthy diet or a high-fat one, when they did intermittent fasting

they lost weight.

FAA = six months unlimited access to high-fat food;
* FTT = six months access to high-fat food for 8-9 hours a day;
FTA = first three months access to high-fat food for 8-9 hours a day, then three months

unlimited access to high-fat food;
FAT = first three months unlimited access to high-fat food, then three months access to high-fat

food for 8-9 hours a day;
NAA = six months unlimited access to high-fat food;
* NTT = six months access to normal food for 8-9 hours a day;
NTA = first three months access to normal food for 8-9 hours a day, then three months unlimited

access to normal food;
NAT = first three months unlimited access to normal food, then three months access to normal

food for 8-9 hours a day.

pic2.gif


Intermittent fasting builds muscle mass

In the mice that were given normal food, intermittent fasting had a positive effect on lean

mass.

pic2.gif


3) Small amount of BCAAs and L-arginine prevents cardio-induced muscle breakdown

http://www.ergo-log.com/bcaasarginine.html
hxxp://www.ergo-log.com/bcaasarginine.html

4) Told you so: BCAAs are anticatabolic

http://www.ergo-log.com/bcaasareanticatabolic.html
hxxp://www.ergo-log.com/bcaasareanticatabolic.html

5) Betaine gives bodybuilders more muscle and less fat

http://www.ergo-log.com/betaine-gives-bodybuilders-more-muscle-and-less-fat.html
hxxp://www.ergo-log.com/betaine-gives-bodybuilders-more-muscle-and-less-fat.html

pic4.gif

pic5.gif

pic6.gif


6) Superstack: CLA + betaine

http://www.ergo-log.com/betacla.html
hxxp://www.ergo-log.com/betacla.html

pic7.gif


The betaine had a stimulatory effect on the pig's amino acid metabolism, and thus strengthened

the modifying effect of CLA on body composition.

7) Bodybuilders progress faster with 5 grams CLA daily

http://www.ergo-log.com/clabodybuilders.html
hxxtp://www.ergo-log.com/clabodybuilders.html

pic 7b.gif


After the first 7 weeks, the group given CLA demonstrated a significantly greater increase in lean mass (+1.4 vs. +0.2 kg) and a greater reduction in fat mass (-0.8 vs. +0.4 kg) compared to the placebo group.

• The group given CLA demonstrated a gain in lean mass that was seven-fold better than the placebo-treated group. Yes, 700% greater.

• Whereas the placebo group gained almost half a kilogram of body fat, the CLA group lost almost a kilogram (2 pounds) of pure body fat.

8) A post-strength training shake with just whey works better than a shake with whey and carbs
for fat free mass

group 1 = CHO = 35g carbs only

group 2 = 30g whey protein only

group 3 = protein + CHO = 35g carbs + 30g whey

pic8.gif

pic9.gif
 
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After 2 weeks on the mk677 is when I noticed the increased strength kicking in within the gym, weights have gone up on lifts.
 
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As mk677 and HGH will reduce your insulin sensitivity a bit, I always use 300mg of r-ala before every meal and with post workout protein shake. See the several articles & studies I quote above on RALA and big time improvements in insulin sensitivity.

Using Dr Dr. Danielle's Alpha Lipoic Acid, RALA, Extremely High Quality Alpha R Lipoic Acid R-ALA)R- ALA, which has 300mg R+ entainomer, as in laboratory animals, the R+ entainomer caused a 34% increase in glucose uptake by skeletal muscle cells in response to insulin while those fed the S- entainomer had no improvement in blood glucose disposal (9). You get a free bottle when you order one, they send you a coupon for 1 free.

(9) Streeper RS, Henriksen EJ, Jacob S, Hokama JY, Fogt DL, Tritschler HJ. Differential effects of lipoic acid stereoisomers on glucose metabolism in insulin-resistant skeletal muscle. Am J Physiol. 1997 Jul;273(1 Pt 1):E185-91.
 
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After 3 weeks on the 25mg mk677 + below supplements bought with a tiny portion of income tax refund, amazing strength increases, gained several lbs of muscle, remarkable body composition changes, much more leaner than I have been in the past with a corresponding drop in fat percentage.

25 mg mk677 in the morning
1250mg CLA (contains 95% cla or 1187mg) from sports research x 2 caps taken 3 times a day before every meal (6 caps total)
1g betaine anhydrous (TMG from Life extension) 1000mg x 60 caps = $8 taken twice a day for a total of 2g.
300mg R-alpha lipoic acid +RALA from dr. danielle's alpha lipoic acid x one 500mg cap before every meal (counteracts the insulin desensitivity of mk677 or hgh)
2g of HMB x 3 times a day combined with 5g of bcaa all together in one baggie taken in a cone followed by water
50g protein met-rx daily (have been on one year already)
150mg test cyp a week (have been on one year already)

Studies with CLA have shown a 2lb decrease in fat mass per month or around a 20% drop in fat over a 3 month period, I do believe it has been very helpful indeed, body recomp is fab. Betaine also has similar outstanding studies showing remarkable increases in lean mass and loss of body fat. Betaine has also been shown in a recent study to increase the number of igf-1 receptors in muscle.

Needless to say, I am very impressed with the above stack, very remarkable body composition changes in only 3 weeks, highly recommend the above.
 
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After 3 weeks on the 25mg mk677 + below supplements bought with a tiny portion of income tax refund, amazing strength increases, gained several lbs of muscle, remarkable body composition changes, much more leaner than I have been in the past with a corresponding drop in fat percentage.

25 mg mk677 in the morning
1250mg CLA (contains 95% cla or 1187mg) from sports research x 2 caps taken 3 times a day before every meal (6 caps total)
1g betaine anhydrous (TMG from Life extension) 500mg x 60 caps = $8 taken twice a day for a total of 2g.
300mg R-alpha lipoic acid +RALA from dr. danielle's alpha lipoic acid x one 500mg cap before every meal (counteracts the insulin desensitivity of mk677 or hgh)
2g of HMB x 3 times a day combined with 5g of bcaa all together in one baggie taken in a cone followed by water
50g protein met-rx daily (have been on one year already)
150mg test cyp a week (have been on one year already)

Studies with CLA have shown a 2lb decrease in fat mass per month or around a 20% drop in fat over a 3 month period, I do believe it has been very helpful indeed, body recomp is fab. Betaine also has similar outstanding studies showing remarkable increases in lean mass and loss of body fat.

Needless to say, I am very impressed with the above stack, very remarkable body composition changes in only 3 weeks, highly recommend the above.
https://youtu.be/vOW8_SuNjjc thought? On CLA
 
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Thanks, I saw the video in it's entirety TheSupGuy. At the end of the video, he laid out the results of the Heart Association study. I should be concerned perhaps, but i just don't trust the studies by the american heart association. I have my full blood panel done again in several months, so I will see if I see any changes for the worse, or if markers stay the same.

View attachment cla.pdf

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf...23000102900503

1,800 mg of CLA taken daily for three months was related to up to a 20% decrease in body fat.4*

4 Thom E., et. al., "Conjugated linoleic acid reduces body fat in healthy exercising humans.” Journal of International Medical Research. 2001; 29: 392-396.
 
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Thanks, I saw the video in it's entirety TheSupGuy. At the end of the video, he laid out the results of the Heart Association study. I should be concerned perhaps, but i just don't trust the studies by the american heart association. I have my full blood panel done again in several months, so I will see if I see any changes for the worse, or if markers stay the same.

https://screenshots.firefox.com/VabZ1XeYwCvqYNxy/journals.sagepub.com

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf...23000102900503

1,800 mg of CLA taken daily for three months was related to up to a 20% decrease in body fat.4*

4 Thom E., et. al., "Conjugated linoleic acid reduces body fat in healthy exercising humans.” Journal of International Medical Research. 2001; 29: 392-396.
 
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Thanks, I saw the video in it's entirety TheSupGuy. At the end of the video, he laid out the results of the Heart Association study. I should be concerned perhaps, but i just don't trust the studies by the american heart association. I have my full blood panel done again in several months, so I will see if I see any changes for the worse, or if markers stay the same.

cla.1.png


https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/147323000102900503

1,800 mg of CLA taken daily for three months was related to up to a 20% decrease in body fat.

4 Thom E., et. al., "Conjugated linoleic acid reduces body fat in healthy exercising humans.” Journal of International Medical Research. 2001; 29: 392-396.
 
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I just got my 3 bottles of Somatozine today (25mg MK-677 taken before bed). I plan on running all 3 bottles in a row. I am in a very strict cut atm, I try to get to my leanest shape ever, possibly close to 10% bodyfat.

I know I could benefits from the strength gains to preserve some muscle, and possibly from it's anabolic effects, but is it really worth it for me to start running it right now? At below 2000 kcal most of the time? I mean the hungers can be really really bad. If so, at 12.5mg for now or straight to 25mg? And when I finish my cut, I think it's better to count kcal on MK rather then going by feeling, since ghrelin will be all over the place.

Thoughts?
 
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The Supp Guy said:
I just got my 3 bottles of Somatozine today (25mg MK-677 taken before bed). I plan on running all 3 bottles in a row. I am in a very strict cut atm, I try to get to my leanest shape ever, possibly close to 10% bodyfat.

I know I could benefits from the strength gains to preserve some muscle, and possibly from it's anabolic effects, but is it really worth it for me to start running it right now? At below 2000 kcal most of the time? I mean the hungers can be really really bad. If so, at 12.5mg for now or straight to 25mg? And when I finish my cut, I think it's better to count kcal on MK rather then going by feeling, since ghrelin will be all over the place.

Thoughts?
Tough call, it took 3 weeks for the hunger to subside somewhat, I read in the studies it took a similar time, many weeks for the hunger to die down somewhat. I find a protein shake helps quite a bit with the hunger pains. I only eat 8 hours during the day so imagine that with hunger pains, lol. I fast the rest of the time, it's amazing for keeping lean mass and shedding fat fast.

Next week March 22 having bloods pulled after being on 25mg mk677 for one month, going on 2nd year, after having 5 months off. I run a 6 month on/5 month off cycle every year. So will post results 3 business days after the 22nd of March.
 
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Just had bloods pulled, results in a few days. I like to run a 7 months on cycle, with 5 months off, taking the mk677 during the months of March to September when I have a season pass to waterpark & visit river, pools. Lift year round x 3 days a week with chest/tri/shoulders day 1, day 2 = legs, day 3 = back, biceps, traps.

IGF-1 range for my age group of 48 ------- 67 to 205 ng/ml igf-1
IGF-1 range for older adults ----------------- 59 to 225 ng/ml igf-1
IGF-1 range for young adults is ------------ 116 to 358 ng/ml igf-1

4-6-18, baseline igf -1 = 227 ng/ml------------------------------------------------- baseline
4-11-18, 2 days on 4iu of Chinese pharm grade HGH = 380 ng/ml---------increase of 153 points
4-25-18, 2 weeks on mk677 only = 372 ng/ml------------------------------------increase of 145 points (nearly 150 point increase only lasts 2 to 3 weeks)
9-7-18, 6 months on mk677 only = 322 ng/ml------------------------------------increase of 95 points
11-2-18, 8 months on mk677 only = 304 ng/ml-----------------------------------increase of 75 points (levels start to fall after 6 months on mk677)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
new year:
3-18-19, 4 weeks on mk677 only = xxx ng/ml-------------------------------------increase of xxx points, results in 4 business days from today

322 ng/ml igf-1 (average level during 1st 6 months on 25mg mk677 in morning) is equivalent of 3.4 iu pharm grade GH from China, as 95 point raise per each 1iu of hgh for me.

Notice in the graph below from mk677 study, how levels remain high for 6 months, but then begin to fall after that.
mk graph.jpg

p.s. this person experiences no lethargy or tiredness on mk677, but rather increased energy and sense of well being + nootropic mental wellness and of course good sleep, but I never had a problem with sleep before. No anxiety whatsoever unlike what have read as postulated by some. Excellent recuperation from workouts and increased muscle strength and exercise tolerance.
 
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Great news! Just got results in.

Results came back on the high end for a 16 year old, and I'm age 49, very impressed.

For 2nd year, after being on mk677 25mg in the morning from 2-22-19 to 3-18-19 (4 weeks so far),
igf-1 came back 327 ng/ml, or a raise of exactly 100 points from baseline of 227 ng/ml,
this is the equivalent of 3.4 iu of pharm grade HGH from China for me, as each 1iu of hgh
raises my igf-1 95 points. Will post actual lab results tonight.

I like to take mk677 for 7 months of the year, then take 5 months off, then repeat, as you start
to get diminishing returns after the 6th month on it, it is then good to take a break from it, as even the mk677 studies on older adults showed after the 6th month, levels begin to drop from the peak. I buy it directly from China (comes out to $25 a gram) and use a really good 1mg electronic scale.

It's nice to see the m677 is still kicking strong. I feel it working as usual, great workouts + recuperation + enhanced exercise tolerance, no lethargy or anxiety whatsoever, fantastic mood, love the stuff.

Mk677 bloating is minimized as I stay on a ketogenic diet year round except for extra carbs on workout days, mk677 insulin desensitivity (this happens with hgh as well) is counteracted by using 300mg of +R ALA before meals. MK677 does not burn fat like hgh but it has increased nitrogen retention in place of this drawback. To help lose fat fast while on mk677, use keto diet + intermittent fasting (eat only 8 hours during day), cardio + CLA + betaine (TMG): read the studies at ergo-log on cla + betaine stack. MK677 hunger pains die down quite a bit a few weeks into cycle.
 
TheSuppGuy

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Great news! Just got results in.

Results came back on the high end for a 16 year old, and I'm age 49, very impressed.

For 2nd year, after being on mk677 25mg in the morning from 2-22-19 to 3-18-19 (4 weeks so far),
igf-1 came back 327 ng/ml, or a raise of exactly 100 points from baseline of 227 ng/ml,
this is the equivalent of 3.4 iu of pharm grade HGH from China for me, as each 1iu of hgh
raises my igf-1 95 points. Will post actual lab results tonight.

I like to take mk677 for 7 months of the year, then take 5 months off, then repeat, as you start
to get diminishing returns after the 6th month on it, it is then good to take a break from it, as even the mk677 studies on older adults showed after the 6th month, levels begin to drop from the peak. I buy it directly from China (comes out to $25 a gram) and use a really good 1mg electronic scale.

It's nice to see the m677 is still kicking strong. I feel it working as usual, great workouts + recuperation + enhanced exercise tolerance, no lethargy or anxiety whatsoever, fantastic mood, love the stuff.

Mk677 bloating is minimized as I stay on a ketogenic diet year round except for extra carbs on workout days, mk677 insulin desensitivity (this happens with hgh as well) is counteracted by using 300mg of +R ALA before meals. MK677 does not burn fat like hgh but it has increased nitrogen retention in place of this drawback. To help lose fat fast while on mk677, use keto diet + intermittent fasting (eat only 8 hours during day), cardio + CLA + betaine (TMG): read the studies at ergo-log on cla + betaine stack. MK677 hunger pains die down quite a bit a few weeks into cycle.
Amazing! I instantly feel lethargy through the whole day. It kind of makes me able to "recover" from a hard workout, like a cortisol control supp? My sleep gets worse, but I still feel somewhat fresh when waking up. I get great workouts, no hungers this far! (5th day on it I think). I'm on a very low carb diet doing carb cycling.

I'm glad your results came in good! This stuff works. Just a question: any chances I can know where you order from? Maybe through a private message or here.

$25 for 1000mg is 40 doses of 25mg. Pretty cheap!
 
tregar

tregar

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Just got results back for new year 2019 on mk677 after 1 month on.

IGF-1 range for my age group of 48 ------- 67 to 205 ng/ml igf-1
IGF-1 range for older adults ----------------- 59 to 225 ng/ml igf-1
IGF-1 range for young adults is ------------ 116 to 358 ng/ml igf-1

4-6-18, baseline igf -1 = 227 ng/ml------------------------------------------------- baseline
4-11-18, 2 days on 4iu of Chinese pharm grade HGH = 380 ng/ml---------increase of 153 points
4-25-18, 2 weeks on mk677 only = 372 ng/ml------------------------------------increase of 145 points (nearly 150 point increase only lasts 2 weeks)
9-7-18, 6 months on mk677 only = 322 ng/ml------------------------------------increase of 95 points
11-2-18, 8 months on mk677 only = 304 ng/ml-----------------------------------increase of 75 points (levels start to fall after 6 months on mk677)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
new year:
3-18-19, 4 weeks on mk677 only = 327 ng/ml-------------------------------------increase of 100 points, (2-22-19 thru 3-18-19 thus far)

Year 2018 = 322 ng/ml igf-1 (average level during 1st 6 months on 25mg mk677 in morning) is equivalent of 3.4 iu pharm grade GH from China, as 95 point raise per each 1iu of hgh for me.

Year 2019 = 327 ng/ml igf-1 (after 1 month on 25mg mk677 in the am) is equivalent to 3.4 iu pharm grade GH from China, as 95 point raise per each 1iu of hgh
for me.

Comments:

I like to take mk677 for 7 months of the year, then take 5 months off, then repeat, as you start to get diminishing returns after the 6th month on it, it is then good to take a break from it, as even the mk677 studies on older adults showed after the 6th month, levels begin to drop from the peak.

It's nice to see the m677 is still kicking strong. I feel it working as usual, great workouts + recuperation + enhanced exercise tolerance, no lethargy or anxiety whatsoever, fantastic mood, love the stuff. If you get tired or lethargy when using mk677, maybe suggest switching to real hgh injections instead? or just don't use anything. Studies show a 20% increase in strength in older adults, have noticed 30% increase over time, as a good responder.

1) Mk677 bloating is minimized as I stay on a ketogenic diet year round except for extra carbs on workout days,

2) Mk677 minor insulin desensitivity (this happens with hgh as well) is counteracted by using 300mg of +R ALA before meals.

3) MK677 does not burn fat like hgh but it has increased nitrogen retention in place of this drawback. To help lose fat fast while on mk677, use keto diet + intermittent fasting (eat only 8 hours during day), cardio + CLA + betaine (TMG): read the studies at ergo-log on cla + betaine super stack.

4) Liver values bloodwork was performed last year after 7 months on it, and they were completely normal.

5) Mk677 hunger pains die down after about 4 weeks on the cycle.

6) Got powder directly from China (comes out to $25 a gram) and use a really good 1mg electronic scale (example: AWS gpr-20 20g x 0.001g).
There is usually a min order of $200 and shipping is around $20. Powder should have a really nasty lingering taste and not just a weak acidic
taste that dies out early. It is hard to synthesize, so insist on good quality.

mk graph.jpg

mk677 2018 lab 1.jpg

mk677 2018 lab 2.jpg

mk677 lab march 2019.jpg
 
tregar

tregar

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Quality and appearance of the skin even more youthful than before in face due to increased collagen production...mk677's increased natural GH supports increased elastin and collagen production for firmer, thicker, tighter skin. Also, hair already grew quick, but even faster on it, same with nails. MK677 puts the "breaks" on somatostatin as we age, so that GH can once again return to youthful levels. It's worth it alone for the increased exercise tolerance in the gym, personally, I find working out is enjoyable with youthful gh levels.

p.s. a few pages are written about mk677 in the book shown.
book.jpg
 
tregar

tregar

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In 2018, I took 25mg in the morning from March till November (8 months), though now I only take it 7 months straight, then take a 5 month break off.

My levels after 4 weeks on it this year measure 327 igf-1 ng/ml, up from my baseline of 227, so a 100 point increase, I read at the high end for an 18 year old on my GH and igf-1 levels while on it, and I am age 49 bodybuilder, so more than happy.

30% greater strength gains over time, good nootropic energy during day, sleep great at night, keeps joins lubricated, and enhanced exercise tolerance in the gym and on treadmill. No lethargy at all here during the day, unlike many I have read about. A few pages about the mk677 in the book "grow young with hgh" by Klatz too.

7 months in while taking it, I had labs done, mk677 had no detrimental effects on my insulin, glucose, A1c, etc.

Labs from Sept 26, 2018:

Insulin 8.2 uU/ml , normal, low =2.6, high = 24.9
Glucose: 89.0 mg/dl, normal, low = 70, high = 99
HbA1c: 5.1%, normal, low = 4.0, high = 5.6

I recommend you take 300mg of +R-ALA (Dr. Danielle Alpha Lipoic Acid, RALA, Extremely High Quality Alpha R Lipoic Acid (R-ALA)R- ALA 120 Capsules) before every meal x 3 times a day to help counteract and even improve insulin sensitivity while on either HGH or mk677, as yes, both will lower insulin sensitivity a bit, but this can be improved considerably with +R alpha lipoic acid, p.s. I get no hearburn from the above formula, best I have tried, and I have tried 3 different brands. I was not taking +R-ALA during the months the lab was taken above, but have since added it this year during my 7 month of the year mk677 25mg a day cycle.

Liver values also normal after 7 months of use:

ALT 26.0 u/L, normal, low =7, high =56.0
AST 21.0 u/L normal, low = 5, high = 35

MK677 is also not expensive, try xian Lyphar biotech in China, around twenty bucks a gram, don't pay the ridiculous prices charged for it here in the USA, as they are but the middleman who get it from China anyways
 
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tregar

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Arachidonic acid:

I know this is off topic, but can't help but share, recently added 1500mg (4 caps) of arachidonic acid taken before my workouts, and have noticed an insane pump and soreness increased by about ten times in the weight room and for rest of day on both chest/triceps/shoulders day and leg day.

Whereas before taking it, I would not get anywhere near as sore, and definately no pumps like when on it. I found the pumps to be very similar to low dose 30mg anavar pumps. But I don't use anavar anymore, as it gets me too wired. There are several pages written about it in the 2006 Anabolics reference guide I own, good studies and experience reports, noting increases in as much as 8.25 lbs lean mass in 2 months. Lots of good reviews on the stuff at amazon as well.

I highly recommend this stuff, I really like it with the mk677.

I thought would share since you guys know I am big on oils like: CLA (6 caps a day), fish oil (6 caps a day), and betaine (2.5g a day), see ergo-log study with graphs on muscle building and fat burning power of superstack CLA + betaine, it is up there. Fish oil also has great muscle building benefits, read the studies on it there as well.

I only use arachidonic acid before my workouts like some use, instead of a 50 day, 50 day off cycle.
hxxps://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/new-study-shows-omega-6-fat-arachidonic-acid-builds-muscle-266756951.html

In a Tampa Florida study, thirty college-aged men were recruited for the study, and randomized into two groups. The men in the first group were given 1,500 mg of ARA daily, and the other an identical-looking placebo. All men followed a periodized resistance-training program for 8 weeks. At the end of the study, the group supplementing ARA reported significantly greater gains in lean body mass (3.6 lbs. vs. 0.2 lbs.). They also noticed an 88% greater increase in muscle thickness (.47 cm vs. .25 cm), and added significantly more strength to bench press and leg press (110 lbs. vs. 76 lbs.). Lastly, wingate peak anaerobic power was dramatically improved with ARA (78W vs. 28W), a 275% greater increase.

Over 8 weeks:

arachidonic acid users gained 3.6 lbs lean mass, placebo = 0.2 lbs
arachidonic acid users gained 0.47cm in thigh muscle, placebo = 0.25cm
arachidonic acid users gained 110 lbs strength for bench + leg press, placebo = 76 lbs
 

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