Bloodwork study of 4iu GH vs peptides & MK677 (similar to 2-3 iu GH)

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The last 6 month revised test on 9/17/18 came back a lowly 294 ng/ml, I am at a loss to explain what is going on, a downward spiral, and this is with the extreme purity stuff that has me feeling super-human. I will continue to use it, decent slow but steady gains in gym, very good strong dreams, good daytime energy, pumps, and cognition, abolutely love the stuff, just can't expalain the test results right now.

Perhaps the vitmain B5 and choline I took along with the mk677 in the morning skewed the results, next time I will fast like I did but not take any vitamins with it, that's how I used to do it in the past, fast all night then only take the mk677 in am, then get bloodwork done 3 hours later like always. I'm reaching for answers right now, but don't have any.

IGF-1 From 372 (March) to 322 (Sept) to 294 (Sept)...(ref range 67 - 205 ng/ml) 227 = baseline.

I give up trying to figure this out, I'll be back in a couple months with an updated bloodwork
end of October (after being on 8 months). I don't give up easy. But I am pissed off with the test results right now.

p.s. I have read the vitamin biotin can skew test results for igf-1, so I don't think it was the choline/vitamin b5 combo. But still, I should not have taken it with vitamins the morning of the bloodwork. Perhaps it is tolerance, and perhaps a 5 on 2 off schedule would correct this, however in the studies on older folks, they took it everyday for 1 and 2 years straight with little change in test results. Here is all I could find on-line:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/303662-building-tolerance-mk.html
hxxp://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/303662-building-tolerance-mk.html

I will continue to take it everyday like usual, and retest 1 month from now, we will get down to the bottom of this. I still love the way I feel and perform on it in the gym, so I am not disappointed, only in the lower test results lately.

Perhaps MK677 reaches a peak at 2 weeks and then levels out after that, as a scientist I intend to continue to do bloodwork every few months (doesn't personally cost me anything) and track what is happening. I still have HGH kits in the fridge, but stick with the mk677 as I love the results thus far. It saves a ton of money and similar results to 3 to 4iu of HGH.

In other news, walmart on-line slashed the price of 2lb pure protein plus met-rx from $25 to $15, use it everyday, some of the best protein on the planet.

Thanks 81dcs, Brienn8989, HellAtlantic, I feel better you guys are interested.
lab late Sept igf-1.jpg
 

City Boy

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The last 6 month revised test on 9/17/18 came back a lowly 294 ng/ml, I am at a loss to explain what is going on, a downward spiral, and this is with the extreme purity stuff that has me feeling super-human. I will continue to use it, decent slow but steady gains in gym, very good strong dreams, good daytime energy, pumps, and cognition, abolutely love the stuff, just can't expalain the test results right now.

Perhaps the vitmain B5 and choline I took along with the mk677 in the morning skewed the results, next time I will fast like I did but not take any vitamins with it, that's how I used to do it in the past, fast all night then only take the mk677 in am, then get bloodwork done 3 hours later like always. I'm reaching for answers right now, but don't have any.

IGF-1 From 372 (March) to 322 (Sept) to 294 (Sept)...(ref range 67 - 205 ng/ml) 227 = baseline.

I give up trying to figure this out, I'll be back in a couple months with an updated bloodwork
end of October (after being on 8 months). I don't give up easy. But I am pissed off with the test results right now.

p.s. I have read the vitamin biotin can skew test results for igf-1, so I don't think it was the choline/vitamin b5 combo. But still, I should not have taken it with vitamins the morning of the bloodwork. Perhaps it is tolerance, and perhaps a 5 on 2 off schedule would correct this, however in the studies on older folks, they took it everyday for 1 and 2 years straight with little change in test results. Here is all I could find on-line:


I will continue to take it everyday like usual, and retest 1 month from now, we will get down to the bottom of this. I still love the way I feel and perform on it in the gym, so I am not disappointed, only in the lower test results lately.

Perhaps MK677 reaches a peak at 2 weeks and then levels out after that, as a scientist I intend to continue to do bloodwork every few months (doesn't personally cost me anything) and track what is happening. I still have HGH kits in the fridge, but stick with the mk677 as I love the results thus far. It saves a ton of money and similar results to 3 to 4iu of HGH.

In other news, walmart on-line slashed the price of 2lb pure protein plus met-rx from $25 to $15, use it everyday, some of the best protein on the planet.

Thanks 81dcs, Brienn8989, HellAtlantic, I feel better you guys are interested.
View attachment 171528
What’s your thoughts on Huperzine A and what dosage 100/200mcg do you think it gets more out of it ,I think this is a great compound and have been on for best part of a year having a couple of weeks off now after reading about building a tolerance and blood glucose levels ,ordered berberine so will adjust just thinking about adding Huperzine A also.Lost fullness after about 3 days .
 
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Cityboy said:
What’s your thoughts on Huperzine A and what dosage 100/200mcg do you think it gets more out of it ,I think this is a great compound and have been on for best part of a year having a couple of weeks off now after reading about building a tolerance and blood glucose levels ,ordered berberine so will adjust just thinking about adding Huperzine A also.Lost fullness after about 3 days
I used 1/2 a huperzine a table back in March when I had my 1st bloodwork after 2 weeks on mk677. I used this for about a month before switching to 200mg choline with vit b5 combo instead of the huperzine, either one works fine, it's your choice.
mk graph.jpg

From the study of mk677 on older adults:
Individual IGF-I Results

Serum IGF-I levels at baseline, 6 and 12 months in each subject. The lower limit of the IGF-I normal range is indicated: older adults (59-225 μg/L, lower dotted line); young adults aged 21-25 (116-358 μg/L, upper dashed line).IGF-I = insulin-like growth factor-I
If I were to plot my results with mk677 taken in the morning daily, in comparison to the above study graphs, my baseline was 227 ng/ml, reaching a peak at 2 weeks (similar to 4iu hgh) of 372 ng/ml (instead of taking 6 months to reach a peak like the participants in the study), and then falling to a 3iu hgh similar level of 294 to 322 ng/ml six months later...how long will this 3.2 to 3.4 iu of hgh similar level last? I will be testing again end of October to see where the level is.

As you can see from the graph above of igf-1 level of participants, even the best achievers in the study only achieved around a 125 to 100 point increase 6 months later, which is around exactly where i was at above baseline (+95 points early sept of 322 ng/ml) So I am pretty much right in line with the studies. It's true I achieved a 145 point increase at 2 weeks, but I believe that was the peak, and then it falls after that, just like the studies, to achieve a more steady state of around +100 or so point increase...therefore the total of mk677 daily at 6 months for me would be similar to 3.4iu of pharm grade hgh from China which gave me a +95 point increase per each 1iu (95 x 3.4iu = 323 ng/ml) in early Sept.

p.s. As far as the powder goes, i bloodwork tested irc bio in deams and found it excellent, my personal favorite. I have no affiliation with them at all. There is also narrowslabs and purerawz out there, but I have not had the resources currently to test there stuff. I have tried some from auction that was terrible. I have also tried two different pharms from china. Please look for very high HPLC tested stuff, the drying and purification of this difficult compound to synthesize need to be spot on.

Conclusion: Even though I started out at the equivalent of 4iu hgh back in march (when mk677 peaked), due to tolerance, 6 months later my bloodwork reads the equivalent of 3.4iu of HGH after 6 months of mk677, this is still not bad as an extra 100 points igf-1 still makes a significant difference in recovery, slow but steady muscle growth, great sleep, etc. I only hope it can continue...so that's why I will continue to do bloodwork every few months, to track what is going on.
 

SARMS

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Cityboy said:
I used 1/2 a huperzine a table back in March when I had my 1st bloodwork after 2 weeks on mk677. I used this for about a month before switching to 200mg choline with vit b5 combo instead of the huperzine, either one works fine, it's your choice.
View attachment 171767
From the study of mk677 on older adults:


If I were to plot my results with mk677 taken in the morning daily, in comparison to the above study graphs, my baseline was 227 ng/ml, reaching a peak at 2 weeks (similar to 4iu hgh) of 372 ng/ml (instead of taking 6 months to reach a peak like the participants in the study), and then falling to a 3iu hgh similar level of 294 to 322 ng/ml six months later...how long will this 3.2 to 3.4 iu of hgh similar level last? I will be testing again end of October to see where the level is.

As you can see from the graph above of igf-1 level of participants, even the best achievers in the study only achieved around a 125 to 100 point increase 6 months later, which is around exactly where i was at above baseline (+95 points early sept of 322 ng/ml) So I am pretty much right in line with the studies. It's true I achieved a 145 point increase at 2 weeks, but I believe that was the peak, and then it falls after that, just like the studies, to achieve a more steady state of around +100 or so point increase...therefore the total of mk677 daily at 6 months for me would be similar to 3.4iu of pharm grade hgh from China which gave me a +95 point increase per each 1iu (95 x 3.4iu = 323 ng/ml) in early Sept.

p.s. As far as the powder goes, i bloodwork tested irc bio in deams and found it excellent, my personal favorite. I have no affiliation with them at all. There is also narrowslabs and purerawz out there, but I have not had the resources currently to test there stuff. I have tried some from auction that was terrible. I have also tried two different pharms from china. Please look for very high HPLC tested stuff, the drying and purification of this difficult compound to synthesize need to be spot on.

Conclusion: Even though I started out at the equivalent of 4iu hgh back in march (when mk677 peaked), due to tolerance, 6 months later my bloodwork reads the equivalent of 3.4iu of HGH after 6 months of mk677, this is still not bad as an extra 100 points igf-1 still makes a significant difference in recovery, slow but steady muscle growth, great sleep, etc. I only hope it can continue...so that's why I will continue to do bloodwork every few months, to track what is going on.
What would you speculate about the levels of endogenous HGH in comparison to exogenous HGH when using a GHRH + GHRP combination? Its commonly known that Hexarelin is the strongest of the peptides, adding in CJC 1295 with DAC must exceed levels of 4iu surely. Any thoughts? Since Hexarelin is stronger than MK 677 as are as eliciting a GH response, I'd assume anywhere from 5iu and above may be achievable. Thoughts?
 
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MK677 should even be able to cause a much higher response then it does, as the first several days, the levels of gh and igf-1 are sky high (much higher than +150 points igf-1) but then the body kicks in a self-regulating mechanism to keep the levels from getting so high. Then it levels out to no better than +100 points over time. I believe the same is true for all the other ghrps/ghrh combos, cjc-dac, etc. no matter what is used, they will all level out to no better than 100 points extra. The body's self-regulating mechanism will always keep the levels from getting no better than this, try as you might to find anything that contradicts this statement by searching for blood levels on cjc-dac, ghrp/ghrh combos all over the net, I have never been able to find anything blood work wise that will contradict this statement, sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but that's the way it is, unless of course you move on to using exogenous HGH.
 

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Bloodwork study of 4iu GH vs peptides & MK677 (similar to 2-3 iu GH)

MK677 should even be able to cause a much higher response then it does, as the first several days, the levels of gh and igf-1 are sky high (much higher than +150 points igf-1) but then the body kicks in a self-regulating mechanism to keep the levels from getting so high. Then it levels out to no better than +100 points over time. I believe the same is true for all the other ghrps/ghrh combos, cjc-dac, etc. no matter what is used, they will all level out to no better than 100 points extra. The body's self-regulating mechanism will always keep the levels from getting no better than this, try as you might to find anything that contradicts this statement by searching for blood levels on cjc-dac, ghrp/ghrh combos all over the net, I have never been able to find anything blood work wise that will contradict this statement, sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but that's the way it is, unless of course you move on to using exogenous HGH.
What are your thoughts on igf lr3? I’ve been thinking about venturing into peptides but I’m still in the research phase. I don’t know a lot about them.
 
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Brienn8989, unfortunately, I don't have any comment on igf lr3

I should better explain the body's "feedback mechanism" which switches into gear about a day or so after mk677 therapy is started:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9071975

Compared with day 1, repeated daily treatment with MK-0677 resulted in an attenuated GH response that was associated with an increase in circulating IGF-I levels.

The cortisol response was similarly reduced during chronic MK-0677 treatment, suggesting that IGF-I mediated negative feedback on both the GH and cortisol axes. The fact that similar attenuation of the GH and cortisol responses to MK-0677 on day 1 was observed if IGF-I levels were increased by treating animals with exogenous GH suggested that the attenuated response to MK-0677 that occurred during chronic treatment was mediated by increases in IGF-I rather than desensitization to MK-0677.

Thus, a regulatory feedback loop apparently prevents hyperstimulation of the GH axis by MK-0677. We conclude that MK-0677 offers the potential of an orally active GH secretagogue that can maintain elevated IGF-I levels when administered chronically.
It is my opinion that this same regulatory feedback loop will switch in soon after any type of peptide therapy is started, whether it be ghrh/ghrp combos or cjc-dac, etc. As a matter of fact, check out the first post on this thread, where I give bloodwork sample after a guy had been on ghrh/ghrp combo for some time, he also only reached around a 100 point increase in igf-1. Search the web and you will be hard pressed to find anyone who has done baseline then high dose bloodwork on cjd-dac 1295, it just does not exist unfortunately.

Conclusion: With 25mg mk677 every morning, I reached a peak of +145 points (similar to 4 iu hgh) two weeks in, then it leveled out to only around a +100 point increase (similar to 3.4 iu hgh) for the months after that. The people in the older adult study reached their peak at 6 months in, then it leveled out after that. That's how we seem to differ. As a comparison: HGH is capable for me at least of causing a 95 point increase in igf-1 per each iu.

See you all back in a month or so to reveal more bloodwork.
 
HellAtlantic

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Where can one get high potency mk677 or is revealing sources taboo?
 

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Brienn8989, unfortunately, I don't have any comment on igf lr3

I should better explain the body's "feedback mechanism" which switches into gear about a day or so after mk677 therapy is started:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9071975

It is my opinion that this same regulatory feedback loop will switch in soon after any type of peptide therapy is started, whether it be ghrh/ghrp combos or cjc-dac, etc. As a matter of fact, check out the first post on this thread, where I give bloodwork sample after a guy had been on ghrh/ghrp combo for some time, he also only reached around a 100 point increase in igf-1. Search the web and you will be hard pressed to find anyone who has done baseline then high dose bloodwork on cjd-dac 1295, it just does not exist unfortunately.

Conclusion: With 25mg mk677 every morning, I reached a peak of +145 points (similar to 4 iu hgh) two weeks in, then it leveled out to only around a +100 point increase (similar to 3.4 iu hgh) for the months after that. The people in the older adult study reached their peak at 6 months in, then it leveled out after that. That's how we seem to differ. As a comparison: HGH is capable for me at least of causing a 95 point increase in igf-1 per each iu.

See you all back in a month or so to reveal more bloodwork.
Yeah I have noticed the significance of what you are saying. You are essentially saying that regardless of GHRP chosen, it will amount to the same thing ( IGF + 100 points), which means that MK 677 is sufficient to get all of the fat loss/LBM benefits that GHRPs can give you. So GHRP 2/6, Ipamorelin, Hexarelin etc are obsolete. There's no need to use them right. That's surprising. I suppose all of those people running peptide cycles can have an easier time by switching to MK 677 right?
 
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SARMS said:
Yeah I have noticed the significance of what you are saying. You are essentially saying that regardless of GHRP chosen, it will amount to the same thing ( IGF + 100 points), which means that MK 677 is sufficient to get all of the fat loss/LBM benefits that GHRPs can give you. So GHRP 2/6, Ipamorelin, Hexarelin etc are obsolete. There's no need to use them right. That's surprising. I suppose all of those people running peptide cycles can have an easier time by switching to MK 677 right?
Exactly. I'll return sometime in November with more bloodwork after being on mk677 for 11 months.
 
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SARMS said:
Yeah I have noticed the significance of what you are saying. You are essentially saying that regardless of GHRP chosen, it will amount to the same thing ( IGF + 100 points), which means that MK 677 is sufficient to get all of the fat loss/LBM benefits that GHRPs can give you. So GHRP 2/6, Ipamorelin, Hexarelin etc are obsolete. There's no need to use them right. That's surprising. I suppose all of those people running peptide cycles can have an easier time by switching to MK 677 right?
Exactly. I'll return sometime in November with more bloodwork after being on mk677 for 8 full months.
 

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What would you speculate about the levels of endogenous HGH in comparison to exogenous HGH when using a GHRH + GHRP combination? Its commonly known that Hexarelin is the strongest of the peptides, adding in CJC 1295 with DAC must exceed levels of 4iu surely. Any thoughts? Since Hexarelin is stronger than MK 677 as are as eliciting a GH response, I'd assume anywhere from 5iu and above may be achievable. Thoughts?
MK677 should even be able to cause a much higher response then it does, as the first several days, the levels of gh and igf-1 are sky high (much higher than +150 points igf-1) but then the body kicks in a self-regulating mechanism to keep the levels from getting so high. Then it levels out to no better than +100 points over time. I believe the same is true for all the other ghrps/ghrh combos, cjc-dac, etc. no matter what is used, they will all level out to no better than 100 points extra. The body's self-regulating mechanism will always keep the levels from getting no better than this, try as you might to find anything that contradicts this statement by searching for blood levels on cjc-dac, ghrp/ghrh combos all over the net, I have never been able to find anything blood work wise that will contradict this statement, sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but that's the way it is, unless of course you move on to using exogenous HGH.
I currently added in cjc 1295 w/ dac with my MK. So I will be the guinea pig and see how things go by in 6 months +; Still will be doing test every month.. As you know I already have baselines etc so we will see how high I end up in due time. My latest result (10/11/2018) of just MK being 5 weeks in at that time of the test my IGF-1 took a hit, I do believe that test was a botch one. I'll be resting in 2 more weeks to see which put me @ 7 weeks in.

Know according to my research adding cjc 1295 w/dac is the single best addition to MK. Mike Arnold has post on here mentioning that the guys or guy who were running that combo had IGF-1 levels well into the 600+!!. So right now we will see how I do with this combo in the long run!
 

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I currently added in cjc 1295 w/ dac with my MK. So I will be the guinea pig and see how things go by in 6 months +; Still will be doing test every month.. As you know I already have baselines etc so we will see how high I end up in due time. My latest result (10/11/2018) of just MK being 5 weeks in at that time of the test my IGF-1 took a hit, I do believe that test was a botch one. I'll be resting in 2 more weeks to see which put me @ 7 weeks in.

Know according to my research adding cjc 1295 w/dac is the single best addition to MK. Mike Arnold has post on here mentioning that the guys or guy who were running that combo had IGF-1 levels well into the 600+!!. So right now we will see how I do with this combo in the long run!
I’m considering adding igf lr3 to my mk for pct. seems like that would be a great combo.
 
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I've read the same quote from Mike Arnold, and while I think it is possible to achieve such high levels for several days, I just don't think it is possible over the long term due to the body's self-regulating mechanism, otherwise MK677 would be able to sustain sky high levels indefinately.

The high level of circulating igf-1 causes a feedback loop to reach the brain and self-regulate the amount of gh/igf-1 released according to the study done on beagles.

And although Mike Arnold has quoted levels as high as 600 ng/ml I have never seen the proof or actual bloodwork posted.

StanG was taking cjc-dac along with mk677 and only reached a high of 275 ng/ml, he got up about +100 points above normal as well, I'll repost his bloodwork later tonight.

The next best thing imho is to just take 5iu of pharm quality hgh daily from China (around $180 a month if you take weekends off) to reach constant levels of 475 ng/ml as there is a 95 point increase per each 1iu of hgh at least for me anyways.

I cringe at not only the cost of cjc-dac with mk677 (very close to the actual cost of hgh) but also the increased bloodpressure and lethargy that cjc-dac causes in me at least. Don't forget that there was at least one death from high blood pressure/heart attack reported in the final trials with cjc-dac back in the day--so that's why it was pulled from ever reaching legit market.

I look forward to your blood test results adm_error, keep up the good work! Prove us wrong if you can!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
After nearly 8 months of 200mg a week TRT + mk677 daily my legs are monstrous, so I have no
complaints. AFter leg day, my legs will be sore for several days indicating a great workout, 25 reps
on the decline hack squat machine has really helped to shape the butt and grow killer quads, also the
hamstring machine has brought out hams a full extra 1 inch. Decline leg press: I load 4 x 45 plates +
25 lbs on each side and hammer it out for 25 reps, then add a bit more weight and go for 8 reps two more times. With
the leg extension I went from extending 80lbs back in March, up to 170lbs for 8 reps in October.


100 point increase in igf-1 is no joke and really helps...this gives me the equivalent of around 3.4iu hgh.

This was all achieved one year after I ruptured a disc in my back and it was pressing on a nerve giving
pain for nearly 11 months. No surgery, just let the disc material retract 1mm every 1 month till it eased
off the nerve, getting rid of all the pain. There is very little blood supply where the disc material leaked
out so that's why it took so long for the playdo like stuff to dry out and shrink back off the nerve next to it.

Another thought is that one could use 5iu hgh for one month, then switch to mk677 for the next month, and alternate back and forth, or just stay on mk677 for a long time like I am trying, etc. There are many ways to save money.
 

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I've read the same quote from Mike Arnold, and while I think it is possible to achieve such high levels for several days, I just don't think it is possible over the long term due to the body's self-regulating mechanism, otherwise MK677 would be able to sustain sky high levels indefinately.

The high level of circulating igf-1 causes a feedback loop to reach the brain and self-regulate the amount of gh/igf-1 released according to the study done on beagles.

And although Mike Arnold has quoted levels as high as 600 ng/ml I have never seen the proof or actual bloodwork posted.

StanG was taking cjc-dac along with mk677 and only reached a high of 275 ng/ml, he got up about +100 points above normal as well, I'll repost his bloodwork later tonight.

The next best thing imho is to just take 5iu of pharm quality hgh daily from China (around $180 a month if you take weekends off) to reach constant levels of 475 ng/ml as there is a 95 point increase per each 1iu of hgh at least for me anyways.

I cringe at not only the cost of cjc-dac with mk677 (very close to the actual cost of hgh) but also the increased bloodpressure and lethargy that cjc-dac causes in me at least. Don't forget that there was at least one death from high blood pressure/heart attack reported in the final trials with cjc-dac back in the day--so that's why it was pulled from ever reaching legit market.

I look forward to your blood test results adm_error, keep up the good work! Prove us wrong if you can!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
After nearly 8 months of 200mg a week TRT + mk677 daily my legs are monstrous, so I have no
complaints. AFter leg day, my legs will be sore for several days indicating a great workout, 25 reps
on the decline hack squat machine has really helped to shape the butt and grow killer quads, also the
hamstring machine has brought out hams a full extra 1.5 inches. I load 4 x 45 plates + 25 lbs on each
side and hammer it out for 25 reps, then add a bit more weight and go for 8 reps two more times. With
the leg extension I went from extending 80lbs back in March, up to 170lbs for 8 reps in October.


100 point increase in igf-1 is no joke and really helps...this gives me the equivalent of around 3.4iu hgh.

This was all achieved one year after I ruptured a disc in my back and it was pressing on a nerve giving
pain for nearly 11 months. No surgery, just let the disc material retract 1mm every 1 month till it eased
off the nerve, getting rid of all the pain. There is very little blood supply where the disc material leaked
out so that's why it took so long for the playdo like stuff to dry out and shrink back off the nerve next to it.

Another thought is that one could use 5iu hgh for one month, then switch to mk677 for the next month, and alternate back and forth, or just stay on mk677 for a long time like I am trying, etc. There are many ways to save money.
Would one want to run mk with high and cjc?
 
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Chainsaw said:
Would one want to run mk with high and cjc?
Brienn8989 said:
I’m considering adding igf lr3 to my mk for pct. seems like that would be a great combo.
I don't have any experience with that combo, but let us know how it works!

1) I do not recommend taking mk677 at the same time as exogenous HGH only because the exgoenous HGH will cause high circulating levels of igf-1 which will dampen the amount of GH released by the MK677 in the brain due to the negative feedback loop of high igf-1 in circulation. You read accounts of some who have tried this, and it seems to work for a short while before the body catches up with the feedback loop....again, you don't see any reports of bloodwork by anyone on the net who has tried this combination....there are none out there, I've searched for quite some time.

2) As far as CJC-DAC with mk677, as stated before I do believe you will see a high spike in GH and igf-1 for the first several days before the body implements the negative feedback loop to keep the levels from getting too high, as an example:

Jimmyinkedup (otherwise known as StanG) said
Figured I would share this as you dont often see bloods for peptides. I have been running this stack for 2 months and just got my BW results. I did base line bloods right before starting. I had BW drawn like 3 weeks ago and for some reason the lab was unable to perform the tests on the sample. I had blood redrawn and just got the results in from the redraw.

Mk677 25mg/day & CJC w/DAC 750mcg E3D:

IGF Baseline Test: 193.4 , this draw: 273.2 (flag:High)
As you can see, he achieved a +80 point in igf-1, which as I have stated is typical +100 points
you can expect from mk677 or cjc-dac or ghrp 2 or 6 + ghrh x 3 times a day, combo's of all the above, etc,.

The negative feedback loop is at work which keeps the levels around the equivalent of 3.4 hgh (323 ng/ml see my bloodwork above after 6 months on mk677) after some time of using...and as Alpha6164 (bodybyilder and doctor) said in the past "but raising your IGF by 100 points from baseline can only help you with better recovery, healing, metabolism etc."

Keep in mind each 1iu of hgh for me at least raises igf-1 95 points so the mk677 which gave me a
blood reading of 323 ng/ml at 6 months of use was the equivalent of 95 ng/ml points x 3.4 = 323 ng/ml (same as 3.4iu of pharm grade gh from China). This is coming from a baseline of 227ng/ml.

If you want levels like 475 ng/ml you will need to look into using 5iu of pharm grade GH from China 5 days out of the week with weekends off to afford the 100iu a month which goes for around $180 and up typically. It's still not cheap, I can find better things to spend $200 on. But it might be affordable if you alternate 1 month of hgh only at 5iu a day with weekends off with 1 month of mk677 only and back and forth month to month, then your cost is slashed in half of the expensive HGH.
 

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I've read the same quote from Mike Arnold, and while I think it is possible to achieve such high levels for several days, I just don't think it is possible over the long term due to the body's self-regulating mechanism, otherwise MK677 would be able to sustain sky high levels indefinately.

The high level of circulating igf-1 causes a feedback loop to reach the brain and self-regulate the amount of gh/igf-1 released according to the study done on beagles.

And although Mike Arnold has quoted levels as high as 600 ng/ml I have never seen the proof or actual bloodwork posted.

StanG was taking cjc-dac along with mk677 and only reached a high of 275 ng/ml, he got up about +100 points above normal as well, I'll repost his bloodwork later tonight.

The next best thing imho is to just take 5iu of pharm quality hgh daily from China (around $180 a month if you take weekends off) to reach constant levels of 475 ng/ml as there is a 95 point increase per each 1iu of hgh at least for me anyways.

I cringe at not only the cost of cjc-dac with mk677 (very close to the actual cost of hgh) but also the increased bloodpressure and lethargy that cjc-dac causes in me at least. Don't forget that there was at least one death from high blood pressure/heart attack reported in the final trials with cjc-dac back in the day--so that's why it was pulled from ever reaching legit market.

I look forward to your blood test results adm_error, keep up the good work! Prove us wrong if you can!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
After nearly 8 months of 200mg a week TRT + mk677 daily my legs are monstrous, so I have no
complaints. AFter leg day, my legs will be sore for several days indicating a great workout, 25 reps
on the decline hack squat machine has really helped to shape the butt and grow killer quads, also the
hamstring machine has brought out hams a full extra 1 inch. Decline leg press: I load 4 x 45 plates +
25 lbs on each side and hammer it out for 25 reps, then add a bit more weight and go for 8 reps two more times. With
the leg extension I went from extending 80lbs back in March, up to 170lbs for 8 reps in October.


100 point increase in igf-1 is no joke and really helps...this gives me the equivalent of around 3.4iu hgh.

This was all achieved one year after I ruptured a disc in my back and it was pressing on a nerve giving
pain for nearly 11 months. No surgery, just let the disc material retract 1mm every 1 month till it eased
off the nerve, getting rid of all the pain. There is very little blood supply where the disc material leaked
out so that's why it took so long for the playdo like stuff to dry out and shrink back off the nerve next to it.

Another thought is that one could use 5iu hgh for one month, then switch to mk677 for the next month, and alternate back and forth, or just stay on mk677 for a long time like I am trying, etc. There are many ways to save money.

Thanks for the info, but ya right now blood pressure is getting a bit high normal gain for me again and the legarthy definitely been noticing that one for sure. I'm actual going to pull the plug a bit early on that combo and go back to just my MK-677 + TRT. Will do blood like Tuesday or so. This puts me I think weekish in with that combo should be enough to see any changes. Right now I know I need to pull the plug. It's always a good thing sharing info! I think we also tend to pick and choose the info we want and sometime that not the best. I't like the saying take it with a grain of salt.

I think I got carried away on this one :(. Cost also up there on this run for sure, I'd much rather get a good run of HGH every other month as you have put it..

Keep up the info and hard work etc.
 

LaserGoPewPew

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Bintherduntht said:
Same here, whether on GH or mk677, I don't sleep as longer anymore, because the sleep I do get is so
deep as well, I find this amazing, still boggles my mind.
I ran MK677 a few months ago and was BLOWN AWAY at how deep my sleep was. I dont sleep well anyways and usually i wake up feeling tired. Not with that last sarm cycle. i was waking up at 6 am feeling so good it was like i was on drugs. Unreal how important good sleep is
 

chainsaw

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I also was looking of adding cjc dac with my mk and the price was steep. So why not run real hgh. I don't know sources for hgh, but I would rather do that than another mk run. Money is not an issue for a 6 month period or running hgh, heck I may throw in some test for 12 weeks with it to run in beginning.
 
tregar

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Glad you are going back to just mk677 + TRT admin_error, sounds great! sorry to hear the bloodpressure and lethargy got to you on the combo....I experienced high blood pressure and severe lethargy with just cjc-1295 alone, but with mk677 alone, none of those problems.

Lasergo, glad to hear your sleep was very good when you tried mk677 months ago.

Chainsaw, yes cost of cjc-1295 is ridiculous, had bought some way back in Feb before I had known about mk677, and it was steep.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Part (1): Had a comprehensive bloodwork panel done after 8 months on TRT cypionate (200mg a week) plus 1/4mg of arimidex taken at each of the 100mg cypionate shots on monday and thursday.

Liver values are NORMAL after 8 months on mk677

ALT (normal = 7 to 56) reading = 26 u/L
AST (normal = 5 to 35) reading = 21 u/L

Testosterone (normal = 317 to 1127) reading = 1422 ng/dl (100mg TRT shot on monday am, bloodwork taken wed noon)
estradiol (normal = 7 to 63) reading = 50 pg/ml
dhea (normal = 36 to 445) reading = 145 ug/dl

I need to lower my dose of TRT down a bit and I should be fine. I'm also going to start taking 25mg of DHEA daily.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Part (2): IGF-1 range for my age group of 48 = 67 to 205 ng/ml

4-6-18, baseline igf -1 = 227 ng/ml------------------------------------------------ baseline
4-11-18, 2 days on 4iu of Chinese pharm grade gh = 380 ng/ml-----------increase of 153 points
4-25-18, 2 weeks on mk677 only = 372 ng/ml-----------------------------------increase of 145 points
9-7-18, 6 months on mk677 only = 322 ng/ml-----------------------------------increase of 95 points
10-31-18, 8 months on mk677 only = upcoming soon, stay tuned!

I will be back end of October (real soon) with updated bloodwork after being on mk677 for 8 full months.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Part (3): From the study of mk677 on older adults:

mk graph.jpg


If I were to plot my results with mk677 taken in the morning daily, in comparison to the above study graphs, my baseline was 227 ng/ml, reaching a peak at 2 weeks (similar to 4iu hgh) of 372 ng/ml (instead of taking 6 months to reach a peak like the participants in the study), and then falling to a 3iu hgh similar level of 294 to 322 ng/ml six months later...how long will this 3.2 to 3.4 iu of hgh similar level last? I will be testing again end of October to see where the level is.

As you can see from the graph above of igf-1 level of participants, even the best achievers in the study only achieved around a 125 to 100 point increase 6 months later, which is around exactly where i was at above baseline (+95 points early sept of 322 ng/ml) So I am pretty much right in line with the studies. It's true I achieved a 145 point increase at 2 weeks, but I believe that was the peak, and then it falls after that, just like the studies, to achieve a more steady state of around +100 or so point increase...therefore the total of mk677 daily at 6 months for me would be similar to 3.4iu of pharm grade hgh from China which gave me a +95 point increase per each 1iu (95 x 3.4iu = 323 ng/ml) in early Sept.

------------------------------------------------------------------
Part (4): I will explain the body's "feedback mechanism" which switches into gear about a day or so after mk677 therapy is started:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9071975
Compared with day 1, repeated daily treatment with MK-0677 resulted in an attenuated GH response that was associated with an increase in circulating IGF-I levels.

The cortisol response was similarly reduced during chronic MK-0677 treatment, suggesting that IGF-I mediated negative feedback on both the GH and cortisol axes. The fact that similar attenuation of the GH and cortisol responses to MK-0677 on day 1 was observed if IGF-I levels were increased by treating animals with exogenous GH suggested that the attenuated response to MK-0677 that occurred during chronic treatment was mediated by increases in IGF-I rather than desensitization to MK-0677.

Thus, a regulatory feedback loop apparently prevents hyperstimulation of the GH axis by MK-0677. We conclude that MK-0677 offers the potential of an orally active GH secretagogue that can maintain elevated IGF-I levels when administered chronically.
It is my opinion that this same regulatory feedback loop will switch in soon after any type of peptide therapy is started, whether it be mk677, ghrh/ghrp combos or cjc-dac, or combos of any of them, etc. After some time of chronic administration, igf-1 and GH will level out to around a +100 point increase due to the regulatory feedback loop imposed by the brain:

....for me, due to feedback loop, this is equal to my 6 month bloodwork reading of 322 ng/dl, or equal to around the high level of a gifted young 16 year old which is 358 ng/dl. (see young adult readings from right hand side of chart above).

Part (5): Ways to save money if you insist on taking exogenous HGH

If you want levels like 475 ng/ml you will need to look into using 5iu of pharm grade GH from China 5 days out of the week with weekends off to afford the 100iu a month which goes for around $180 and up typically. It's still not cheap, I can find better things to spend $200 on. But it might be affordable if you alternate 1 month of hgh only at 5iu a day with weekends off with 1 month of mk677 only and back and forth month to month, then your cost is slashed in half of the expensive HGH.

1) I do not recommend taking mk677 at the same time as exogenous HGH only because the exgoenous HGH will cause high circulating levels of igf-1 which will dampen the amount of GH released by the MK677 in the brain due to the negative feedback loop of high igf-1 in circulation (see beagles dog study above) You read accounts of some who have tried this, and it seems to work for a short while before the body catches up with the feedback loop....again, you don't see any reports of bloodwork by anyone on the net who has tried this combination....there are none out there, I've searched for quite some time.

2) As far as CJC-DAC with mk677, as stated before I do believe you will see a high spike in GH and igf-1 for the first several days before the body implements the negative feedback loop to keep the levels from getting too high, as an example:

Jimmyinkedup (otherwise known as StanG) said
Figured I would share this as you dont often see bloods for peptides. I have been running this stack for 2 months and just got my BW results. I did base line bloods right before starting. I had BW drawn like 3 weeks ago and for some reason the lab was unable to perform the tests on the sample. I had blood redrawn and just got the results in from the redraw.

Mk677 25mg/day & CJC w/DAC 750mcg E3D:

IGF Baseline Test: 193.4 , this draw: 273.2 (flag:High)
As you can see, he achieved a +80 point in igf-1, which as I have stated is typical +100 points you can expect after chronic administration of mk677 or cjc-dac or ghrp 2 or 6 + ghrh x 3 times a day, combo's of all the above, etc...this happening after feedback regulatory system kicks in after a day or more to keep levels from getting too high.

Alpha6164 (bodybuilder and medical doctor from here at this forum):
But raising your IGF by 100-150 points from baseline can only help you with better recovery, healing, metabolism etc.
 

Brienn8989

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I had been taking mk for about a month. I was curious to see if I would notice a difference if I stopped. It’s been about 2 weeks and I’m back on it. My joints have never felt so ****ty haha my beard feels brittle and hasn’t been growing at all and just feel slightly more irritable than normal. I’ll deal with slight lethargy to get rid of the joint pain again!
 

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Glad you are going back to just mk677 + TRT admin_error, sounds great! sorry to hear the bloodpressure and lethargy got to you on the combo....I experienced high blood pressure and severe lethargy with just cjc-1295 alone, but with mk677 alone, none of those problems.

Lasergo, glad to hear your sleep was very good when you tried mk677 months ago.

Chainsaw, yes cost of cjc-1295 is ridiculous, had bought some way back in Feb before I had known about mk677, and it was steep.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Part (1): Had a comprehensive bloodwork panel done after 8 months on TRT cypionate (200mg a week) plus 1/4mg of arimidex taken at each of the 100mg cypionate shots on monday and thursday.

Liver values are NORMAL after 8 months on mk677

ALT (normal = 7 to 56) reading = 26 u/L
AST (normal = 5 to 35) reading = 21 u/L

Testosterone (normal = 317 to 1127) reading = 1422 ng/dl (100mg TRT shot on monday am, bloodwork taken wed noon)
estradiol (normal = 7 to 63) reading = 50 pg/ml
dhea (normal = 36 to 445) reading = 145 ug/dl

I need to lower my dose of TRT down a bit and I should be fine. I'm also going to start taking 25mg of DHEA daily.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks, I'm doing much much better now. Not sure if your self prescribing trt or via dr, but I'd drop the dosing down to 180-190ml per week, 200 a week a bit on the high side. Are you splitting the dosing? Could't find that info in you thread. Hopefully you are. I would recommend 3 times a week (M,W,F).

Estradiol is high. You want estradiol ultrasensitive as it more accurate numbers. Also base on those numbers your probably right around very highish on the estradiol ultrasensitive test. Which is high. You want around 20-30+/- a bit on the estradiol ultrasensitive. Lowering your TRT and doing more frequent smaller injections would help in that area. I'd bump up the arimidex to 1/4 3 times a week.

DHEA is at a good number low but not too shabby. I'd hold off for a bit after lowering your trt and getting estrogen in check. Also DHEA dose rise estrogen. I'd wait to supplement that.

SHBG? Do you have those numbers? This is also important. Lower SHBG guys tend do better on daily injections. Daily/smaller injections do help control estrogen, could even eliminate the need for an AI. All of this is a whole nother topic lol.... I'd spare you the long talk. You can PM if you need more info on trt setup etc.


Now back on topic!

Comparing my ALT (16) & AST (15) to yours we are pretty close. So I can back you up that mk677 dose not effect liver. My test were done this month. Apparently I forgot that I also have 1 year worth of those test so I was nice seeing the rest of my numbers.

Can't wait to see what 8 months look like for you. I think +125 should be more or less were you at this time around. I'd think that +95 test a while back was a dud and lower quilty MK. I think i'm going to call it now and say this test is about +115ish.
 
tregar

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Admin_error said:
Thanks, I'm doing much much better now. Not sure if your self prescribing trt or via dr, but I'd drop the dosing down to 180-190ml per week, 200 a week a bit on the high side. Are you splitting the dosing? Could't find that info in you thread. Hopefully you are. I would recommend 3 times a week (M,W,F).

Estradiol is high. You want estradiol ultrasensitive as it more accurate numbers. Also base on those numbers your probably right around very highish on the estradiol ultrasensitive test. Which is high. You want around 20-30+/- a bit on the estradiol ultrasensitive. Lowering your TRT and doing more frequent smaller injections would help in that area. I'd bump up the arimidex to 1/4 3 times a week.

DHEA is at a good number low but not too shabby. I'd hold off for a bit after lowering your trt and getting estrogen in check. Also DHEA dose rise estrogen. I'd wait to supplement that.

SHBG? Do you have those numbers? This is also important. Lower SHBG guys tend do better on daily injections. Daily/smaller injections do help control estrogen, could even eliminate the need for an AI. All of this is a whole nother topic lol.... I'd spare you the long talk. You can PM if you need more info on trt setup etc.


Now back on topic!

Comparing my ALT (16) & AST (15) to yours we are pretty close. So I can back you up that mk677 dose not effect liver. My test were done this month. Apparently I forgot that I also have 1 year worth of those test so I was nice seeing the rest of my numbers.

Can't wait to see what 8 months look like for you. I think +125 should be more or less were you at this time around. I'd think that +95 test a while back was a dud and lower quilty MK. I think i'm going to call it now and say this test is about +115ish.
Thanks admin_error, I will make the adjustments you mentioned. Yes, I want my estradiol around 30 if possible, and will lower the TRT to around 175mg or less a week in two divided doses like I do normally (don't have time to divide it into 3 injections a week). I have crashed my E2 (and it's not a good feeling for several days as low e2 causes depression) by taking as much as 0.4mg of arimidex with each of the two divided shots a week, so I'm going to lower the TRT and the e2 should follow suite for now. Gonna lay off supplementing dhea for now.

SHBG = 28 nmol/L (16.5 to 55.9 normal)
free testosterone = 40.5 ng/dl (5.6 to 27.8 normal)

Look forward to hearing your upcoming igf-1 test as well.
 

SARMS

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Glad you are going back to just mk677 + TRT admin_error, sounds great! sorry to hear the bloodpressure and lethargy got to you on the combo....I experienced high blood pressure and severe lethargy with just cjc-1295 alone, but with mk677 alone, none of those problems.

Lasergo, glad to hear your sleep was very good when you tried mk677 months ago.

Chainsaw, yes cost of cjc-1295 is ridiculous, had bought some way back in Feb before I had known about mk677, and it was steep.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Part (1): Had a comprehensive bloodwork panel done after 8 months on TRT cypionate (200mg a week) plus 1/4mg of arimidex taken at each of the 100mg cypionate shots on monday and thursday.

Liver values are NORMAL after 8 months on mk677

ALT (normal = 7 to 56) reading = 26 u/L
AST (normal = 5 to 35) reading = 21 u/L

Testosterone (normal = 317 to 1127) reading = 1422 ng/dl (100mg TRT shot on monday am, bloodwork taken wed noon)
estradiol (normal = 7 to 63) reading = 50 pg/ml
dhea (normal = 36 to 445) reading = 145 ug/dl

I need to lower my dose of TRT down a bit and I should be fine. I'm also going to start taking 25mg of DHEA daily.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Part (2): IGF-1 range for my age group of 48 = 67 to 205 ng/ml

4-6-18, baseline igf -1 = 227 ng/ml------------------------------------------------ baseline
4-11-18, 2 days on 4iu of Chinese pharm grade gh = 380 ng/ml-----------increase of 153 points
4-25-18, 2 weeks on mk677 only = 372 ng/ml-----------------------------------increase of 145 points
9-7-18, 6 months on mk677 only = 322 ng/ml-----------------------------------increase of 95 points
10-31-18, 8 months on mk677 only = upcoming soon, stay tuned!

I will be back end of October (real soon) with updated bloodwork after being on mk677 for 8 full months.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Part (3): From the study of mk677 on older adults:

View attachment 172895

If I were to plot my results with mk677 taken in the morning daily, in comparison to the above study graphs, my baseline was 227 ng/ml, reaching a peak at 2 weeks (similar to 4iu hgh) of 372 ng/ml (instead of taking 6 months to reach a peak like the participants in the study), and then falling to a 3iu hgh similar level of 294 to 322 ng/ml six months later...how long will this 3.2 to 3.4 iu of hgh similar level last? I will be testing again end of October to see where the level is.

As you can see from the graph above of igf-1 level of participants, even the best achievers in the study only achieved around a 125 to 100 point increase 6 months later, which is around exactly where i was at above baseline (+95 points early sept of 322 ng/ml) So I am pretty much right in line with the studies. It's true I achieved a 145 point increase at 2 weeks, but I believe that was the peak, and then it falls after that, just like the studies, to achieve a more steady state of around +100 or so point increase...therefore the total of mk677 daily at 6 months for me would be similar to 3.4iu of pharm grade hgh from China which gave me a +95 point increase per each 1iu (95 x 3.4iu = 323 ng/ml) in early Sept.

------------------------------------------------------------------
Part (4): I will explain the body's "feedback mechanism" which switches into gear about a day or so after mk677 therapy is started:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9071975
It is my opinion that this same regulatory feedback loop will switch in soon after any type of peptide therapy is started, whether it be mk677, ghrh/ghrp combos or cjc-dac, or combos of any of them, etc. After some time of chronic administration, igf-1 and GH will level out to around a +100 point increase due to the regulatory feedback loop imposed by the brain:

....for me, due to feedback loop, this is equal to my 6 month bloodwork reading of 322 ng/dl, or equal to around the high level of a gifted young 16 year old which is 358 ng/dl. (see young adult readings from right hand side of chart above).
After reading this, I now believe that your results, as far as LBM & strength gains go, are largely due to the TRT and not, in fact on account of the MK 677 (At least not singlehandedly). This is disappointing. Your total testosterone level is supraphysiologic and your FT reading is also above natural levels. Looking at your account in isolation, you'd think MK 677 is a potent muscle builder and strength augment but examining other accounts of MK 677 usage doesn't support these LBM increases. Sorry but I think that the BCAAs, HMB and even MK 677 are red herrings so to speak, as they aren't the MOA for your body composition changes. I'm sure they play a part, but as far as I can see the TRT is the real reason and the true MOA.


In light of this, I'd doubt the true effect of an 100 point increase of IGF-1 on isolation. Since there is synergism between HGH, IGF-1 & Testosterone (via receptor upregulation), I'm inclined to think that the TRT is the potentiation of the MK 677. This has been an interesting report of the effects of MK 677, in relation to the equivalent dosage of HGH but I do not thinks it's the true reflection of its effects. Great for sleep, appetite and skin (anti aging etc) but as an anabolic agent? I'm not too convinced.
 

Brienn8989

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After reading this, I now believe that your results, as far as LBM & strength gains go, are largely due to the TRT and not, in fact on account of the MK 677 (At least not singlehandedly). This is disappointing. Your total testosterone level is supraphysiologic and your FT reading is also above natural levels. Looking at your account in isolation, you'd think MK 677 is a potent muscle builder and strength augment but examining other accounts of MK 677 usage doesn't support these LBM increases. Sorry but I think that the BCAAs, HMB and even MK 677 are red herrings so to speak, as they aren't the MOA for your body composition changes. I'm sure they play a part, but as far as I can see the TRT is the real reason and the true MOA.


In light of this, I'd doubt the true effect of an 100 point increase of IGF-1 on isolation. Since there is synergism between HGH, IGF-1 & Testosterone (via receptor upregulation), I'm inclined to think that the TRT is the potentiation of the MK 677. This has been an interesting report of the effects of MK 677, in relation to the equivalent dosage of HGH but I do not thinks it's the true reflection of its effects. Great for sleep, appetite and skin (anti aging etc) but as an anabolic agent? I'm not too convinced.
More food intake and better sleep equals more gainz.
 
tregar

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Alpha6164 (bodybuilder and medical doctor ):
But raising your IGF by 100 points from baseline can only help you with better recovery, healing, metabolism etc.
For more info, read the book "Grow Young with HGH" by Ronald Klatz (amazon). There is even a few pages on mk677 in the book. Datbtrue once said that he started his aging grandmother on peptides, and she was finally able to climb the stairs of her house once again. Studies on mk677 on older folks show a 20% increase in muscle strength, and this is without TRT. Studies also show greatly increased nitrogen retention.

So yes, the benefits are not extreme perhaps, but I'd rather have the igf-1 and GH level of a gifted 16 year old than a 48 year old (me). I do notice the difference in the gym, helping about 25% or so, I've had periods where I lifted without the aid of mk677, and then the time I used it, I did notice the difference in the gym for this aging fellow.

Read the biography of Barry Bonds to learn how once he started taking HGH in his 40's, he was once again able to compete and even exceed the other professionals in their 20's and 30's, it helped change his career in his older age. Raising your GH and igf-1 helps in the long term over long periods of time as far as increasing muscle mass (in combination with testosterone as there is a synergy), but it helps immediately with enhanced recovery and healing, not to mention better sleep in some people. Is mk677 an anabolic agent? you be the judge. No one can discover if it helps but you. I work out hard and heavy in the gym, I need all the help I can get. It's also nice that my joints stay lubricated on it.
 

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Great thread, it seems like unless you are taking pharma HGH MK is comparable to any other peptide/product out there and cheaper in the long run considering how much bulk powders have come down in price. I will however say to me personally MK seems a bit more "sloppy" vs. LR3 or Hex as it comes to water retention/bloating etc. The others put on some water but MK always feels more weighty/bloaty.

Also it seems like you don't agree with stacking MK with anything else like LR3 or the like as many do due to the negative feedback loop you mentioned ramping up and not getting the benefits of either fully. Definitely an interesting premise and makes sense. Wish there was more hard data on that because you see MK being stacked constantly.
 

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Admin_error said:

Thanks admin_error, I will make the adjustments you mentioned. Yes, I want my estradiol around 30 if possible, and will lower the TRT to around 175mg or less a week in two divided doses like I do normally (don't have time to divide it into 3 injections a week). I have crashed my E2 (and it's not a good feeling for several days as low e2 causes depression) by taking as much as 0.4mg of arimidex with each of the two divided shots a week, so I'm going to lower the TRT and the e2 should follow suite for now. Gonna lay off supplementing dhea for now.

SHBG = 28 nmol/L (16.5 to 55.9 normal)
free testosterone = 40.5 ng/dl (5.6 to 27.8 normal)

Look forward to hearing your upcoming igf-1 test as well.
Just a tip. 27 Gauge 1/2in needle .5cc are perfect. Saves a lot of money & no wasting of medicine. Can also prefill for the week or two in one go. Then all you need to to is grab and go!

.40ml twice a week then or .26ml three times, but if you prefill 3 times a week is not bad!

SHBG is good. High estrogen and that feeling is not good, both tow high or to low is not fun. Just do 1/4 of arimidex and split it in half. Trying to split a 1mg tab is not fun.

I'd give everything 6-8 weeks then do bloods. Changes take time.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm finally going tomorrow to do my bloods. Little late, but I've been a little funky lately and been putting it off. So everything ready for 6:30 am bloodwork.
 
tregar

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Sounds good, thanks for advice admin_error, gonna follow.

I lowered TRT down from 200mg a week to 150mg a week (25% drop)

My main concern is not whether mk677 is anabolic, but whether:

1) will it remain effective 8 months later?

2) Will the bloodwork results spiral downwards the longer a person is on it?

3) Will there be withdrawal side effects once it is stopped?

4) What is the best way to continue to use it if tolerance builds up and results are low?

5) will my normal baseline igf-1 and GH remain once it is stopped?

6) would it be better to alternate 1 month of HGH only at 5iu with 1 month only of mk677? (equiv of 3.4 iu?)

7) would it be better to stop mk677 eventually all together? else use drug week holidays, etc.

** I'm also considering using mk677 in the future only on the days I lift weights in order to keep the levels elevated on those days to equivalent of 4iu (370 to 380 ng/ml) of hgh. This should help to eliminate drug tolerance if there is such a thing with it.
 

_Endure_

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^ would be curious to see results on only workout days or maybe 5 days on two days off? Everyone says it has to be ran continuously but if its affects are quick enough you would get the benefits on repair/healing for workout days and probably wouldn't drop off heavily if not used 2-3 days a week. Again curious to see how fast it drops off or "swings" and if continual usage really is the only way to go.
 

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Sounds good, thanks for advice admin_error, gonna follow.

I lowered TRT down from 200mg a week to 150mg a week (25% drop)

My main concern is not whether mk677 is anabolic, but whether:

1) will it remain effective 8 months later?

2) Will the bloodwork results spiral downwards the longer a person is on it?

3) Will there be withdrawal side effects once it is stopped?

4) What is the best way to continue to use it if tolerance builds up and results are low?

5) will my normal baseline igf-1 and GH remain once it is stopped?

6) would it be better to alternate 1 month of HGH only at 5iu with 1 month only of mk677? (equiv of 3.4 iu?)

7) would it be better to stop mk677 eventually all together? else use drug week holidays, etc.

** I'm also considering using mk677 in the future only on the days I lift weights in order to keep the levels elevated on those days to equivalent of 4iu (370 to 380 ng/ml) of hgh. This should help to eliminate drug tolerance if there is such a thing with it.

1. I believe so.

2. I don't think so.

3. I say yes in the terms of worst sleep quality, recover etc the longer your off.

4. From my research 1 week off was enough to reset mk677. 1 week off per month could be an idea to start with.

5. Yes to that part. Once your at peak your levels should be fine for a while, and the longer your off your levels going to go back to baseline.

6. Though call?

7. No.
 
djbombsquad

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I would do mk677 on heavy lifting days and cycle off on non lifting days . I think then your body will never build up a tolerance .
 

_Endure_

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I would do mk677 on heavy lifting days and cycle off on non lifting days . I think then your body will never build up a tolerance .
Do you notice the same benefits as running continuously? I've been thinking about this more and more. Why not just run MK or LR3 pre workout only? You'd get a 24 hour half life from it so it would help heal and recover that day and into the next. Most guys are at least 4-6 days a week so really you're running it most of the time and might have a slight drop off a couple/few days but does that matter over the course of months?
 

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Anyone??? thoughts on MK or LR3 only on workout days?
 
tregar

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Just a quick note, been dreaming the new irc.bio mk last month....it does not have the wicked taste punch like pure inferno nutrition stuff used to have, it also does not give the feeling of energy all day, just a normal feeling, I'm sure it probably works just fine at elevating igf-1 and gh however. I am always in search of the it seems now elusive stuff that pure inferno nutrition used to have, wickedly potent and left a lingering taste in mouth for upwards of 1/2 plus hour, felt it was very pure. Will dream other place I know of one day to see if it is similar to the old awesome pure inferno stuff or see if it is identical to ho-hum irc.bio. Anyhow, will be back with 8 month mk677 bloodwork soon (testing end of this week).
 
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Don’t get the irc brand I was told it’s under dosed.
 

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tregar

Looking forward to those results! I just posted more blood-work today in my thread. I think you find the result entertaining! As in they suck lol... I'm actual stopping my run early to get a few things a in check first. Either I really have bunk mk-677 which I don't believe I have. Think my other hormones effecting this. I am no where near feedback loops levels at all which is crazy as I should be at min + 100 from my baseline I'd even take +50.

I could continue this run, but feel like I be wasting my mk-677 atm especially if i'm not gaining anything. I think you had a much better run with mk then me.
 
tregar

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Thanks Admin_error, I will check out your results.

I just had my bloodwork after being on mk677 25mg in am for 8 months, this Nov 2, will post when get results next Wed.

I did not like the latest stuff I had been dreaming from irc.bio for last month, felt no difference with it. I switched back to stuff from a pharm in China today for the bloodwork which I feel is better than it. Already feel the difference after a few hours, better clarity of thought, energy, upbeat frame of mind.

** There appear to be major quality differences between stuff from different vendors, which I have suspected for quite some time now, and have written about throughout this thread. Purity is one of the things that we need to look carefully at.

I will be going with either narrowslabs (99.6% purity) or purerawz in the future, will test one day in near future to see if I like and report back, I miss the really bad ass stuff that gave me energy all day & great dreams from pure inferno with wicked purity and taste lingering for 1/2 hour. Will sample two places mentioned in future to see if they are similar. With irc.bio I felt like my normal self, dreams nothing special, energy normal 49 year old self, a bit disappointed with it. Felt like stop taking it I was so not happy. Taste was just a bit acidic with it not wicked lingering potent taste like old stuff I loved.

Feels like we are all in crisis mode I know, but this is how we learn best. We will get down to the bottom of this.

Admin_error said on his thread:

baseline = 227 ng/ml
4 week = 380 ng/ml
5 week = 244 ng/ml
7 week = 230 ng/ml

Tregar (myself said):
IGF-1 range for my age group of 48 = 67 to 205 ng/ml

4-6-18, baseline igf -1 = 227 ng/ml----------------------------------------------- baseline
4-11-18, 2 days on 4iu of Chinese pharm grade gh = 380 ng/ml-----------increase of 153 points
4-25-18, 2 weeks on mk677 only = 372 ng/ml----------------------------------increase of 145 points
9-7-18, 6 months on mk677 only = 322 ng/ml----------------------------------increase of 95 points
11-2-18, 8 months on mk677 only = upcoming next week, stay tuned!
 

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Thanks Admin_error, I will check out your results.

I just had my bloodwork after being on mk677 25mg in am for 8 months, this Nov 2, will post when get results next Wed.

I did not like the latest stuff I had been dreaming from irc.bio for last month, felt no difference with it. I switched back to stuff from a pharm in China today for the bloodwork which I feel is better than it. Already feel the difference after a few hours, better clarity of thought, energy, upbeat frame of mind.

** There appear to be major quality differences between stuff from different vendors, which I have suspected for quite some time now, and have written about throughout this thread. Purity is one of the things that we need to look carefully at.

I will be going with either narrowslabs (99.6% purity) or purerawz in the future, will test one day in near future to see if I like and report back, I miss the really bad ass stuff that gave me energy all day & great dreams from pure inferno with wicked purity and taste lingering for 1/2 hour. Will sample two places mentioned in future to see if they are similar. With irc.bio I felt like my normal self, dreams nothing special, energy normal 49 year old self, a bit disappointed with it. Felt like stop taking it I was so not happy. Taste was just a bit acidic with it not wicked lingering potent taste like old stuff I loved.

Feels like we are all in crisis mode I know, but this is how we learn best. We will get down to the bottom of this.

Admin_error said on his thread:

baseline = 227 ng/ml
4 week = 380 ng/ml
5 week = 244 ng/ml
7 week = 230 ng/ml

Tregar (myself said):
Id like to added to this thread. As you all can see my numbers (Admin_Error) are are lower then Tregar. I’ll give in explanation why.

My revers T3 has been climbing and Thyroid problems effects IGF levels. It would be great if your (Tregar) able to do a thyroid panel to compare with me. At least your well above your baseline! I think for you your just on that feedback loop but your still above baseline.

My reverse T3 not super high either (30) im usually 17-20, so for it to effect IGF levels like that then its crazy! Or I have an under-dose / bunk mk-677 this go around. This should not be the case, but only more test later on once I correct a few things like my reverse T3 etc. I will rerun after I corrected my issue this will tell me if my mk-677 is indeed under-dose or bunk. I did pick up some narrowlabs caps so I’ll run that after I take care of my issues first.

So there you have it Thyroid Problems have an effect on IGF Levls. Not just feedback loop.
 

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This is (Admin_Error) So I'm going to add one last thing here since tregar has a bit more active users. I will post this in my thread to, but should fit well right here. Maybe he should add this to his first page?

So we all know there a tolerance level with mk-677 and after while your not as high as you once were. We also know Thyroid problems can also affect said levels. I spoke with my Dr today and we can both agree that for me that TOLERANCE LEVEL was a lot sooner than expected. I was not really expecting that per say, but my blood work etc has shown that. We spoke a bit more on that subject and he did mention longer run of mk-677 or hgh were one is sitting above 300 IGF-1 constantly create problems longer term especially when one get older. He went into detail why, but there a bit too much info to retain. He said cycling perfectly fine and 3 months on is good with 1-2 months off and repeat. I would say 3 months off preferably. So what have we learned is that this tolerance level very greatly by person. I do believe one should be doing IGF-1 test once a month for at least 3 to gain there tolerance level. You need to find that level because it important to see how soon that tolerance level starts, otherwise you would just be wasting mk-677.

For me by the 2nd monthish in I am almost back to my baseline, and by that 3rd month and pretty much there. So I can say that for me one full month on then 1-2 month off is best for me and that anything past (1 month on) I'm just wasting my mk-677. That still +153 from my baseline for a solid month. That not mentioning that first week it's even higher.

So to sum things up, find your tolerance level, test for it, and stop your cycle when your at level and then take that 1-2 month of then restart back on your cycle. 3 months on max if what I suggest followed by that 1-2 month off to reset. Hope this info help.

Admin_Error
 
tregar

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Admin_error said:
Id like to added to this thread. As you all can see my numbers (Admin_Error) are are lower then Tregar. I’ll give in explanation why.

My revers T3 has been climbing and Thyroid problems effects IGF levels. It would be great if your (Tregar) able to do a thyroid panel to compare with me. At least your well above your baseline! I think for you your just on that feedback loop but your still above baseline.

My reverse T3 not super high either (30) im usually 17-20, so for it to effect IGF levels like that then its crazy! Or I have an under-dose / bunk mk-677 this go around. This should not be the case, but only more test later on once I correct a few things like my reverse T3 etc. I will rerun after I corrected my issue this will tell me if my mk-677 is indeed under-dose or bunk. I did pick up some narrowlabs caps so I’ll run that after I take care of my issues first.

So there you have it Thyroid Problems have an effect on IGF Levls. Not just feedback loop.
---------------
This is (Admin_Error) So I'm going to add one last thing here since @tregar has a bit more active users. I will post this in my thread to, but should fit well right here. Maybe he should add this to his first page?

So we all know there a tolerance level with mk-677 and after while your not as high as you once were. We also know Thyroid problems can also affect said levels. I spoke with my Dr today and we can both agree that for me that TOLERANCE LEVEL was a lot sooner than expected. I was not really expecting that per say, but my blood work etc has shown that. We spoke a bit more on that subject and he did mention longer run of mk-677 or hgh were one is sitting above 300 IGF-1 constantly create problems longer term especially when one get older. He went into detail why, but there a bit too much info to retain. He said cycling perfectly fine and 3 months on is good with 1-2 months off and repeat. I would say 3 months off preferably. So what have we learned is that this tolerance level very greatly by person. I do believe one should be doing IGF-1 test once a month for at least 3 to gain there tolerance level. You need to find that level because it important to see how soon that tolerance level starts, otherwise you would just be wasting mk-677.

For me by the 2nd monthish in I am almost back to my baseline, and by that 3rd month and pretty much there. So I can say that for me one full month on then 1-2 month off is best me and that anything past (1 month on) I'm just wasting my mk-677. That still +153 from my baseline for a solid month. That not mentioning that first week it's even higher.

So to sum things up, find your tolerance level, test for it, and stop your cycle when your at level and then take that 1-2 month of then restart back on your cycle. 3 months on max if what I suggest followed by that 1-2 month off to reset. Hope this info help.
That's good you got some caps from narrowslabs admin_error, that's the next place will be looking into one day to dream, want to see if their 99.6% purity is for real, how react to it, etc. Thanks for all your gained knowledge on tolerance level, and how T3 definitely has an effect in all this, etc. staying on for possibly only so long, then going off for same period, etc. All things I will be considering as well. I will definitely add this stuff from admin_error and myself to first page.

Got the results in for 11/2/2018 (8 months on mk677, 25mg in the am)

will post actual lab tomorrow when have more time.
-------------------------------------------------
IGF-1 range for my age group of 48 = 67 to 205 ng/ml

4-6-18, baseline igf -1 = 227 ng/ml----------------------------------------------------- baseline
4-11-18, 2 days on 4iu of Chinese pharm grade gh = 380 ng/ml----------------increase of 153 points
4-25-18, 2 weeks on mk677 only = 372 ng/ml----------------------------------------increase of 145 points
9-7-18, 6 months on mk677 only = 322 ng/ml----------------------------------------increase of 95 points
11-2-18, 8 months on mk677 only = 302 ng/ml--------------------------------------increase of 75 points

302 ng/ml igf-1 is equivalent of 3.2 iu pharm grade GH from China, as 95 point raise per each 1iu of hgh for me.

At this point, I'm considering taking a break, or continuing to use for a couple more months.
Will most likely stay on for 2 more months, then blood test again after being on 10 months.
Last test was done when taking some of the Chinese brand that I at least liked way better than
the irc.bio. Like I said earlier, will be looking into narrowslabs in future or purerawz, depends on what I like the best, always on the search for the elusive stuff that was from pure inferno nutrition, loved the effects from it, this chinese stuff from xi pharm is decent, gives close to effects of pure inferno, but not all the way, so will be trying others soon.

Will give my review of narrowslabs in the future.
 

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Looks like the MK is becoming less effective. I know guys say to run it forever but I've often questioned this. Something like 3 months might be the sweet spot for a reset based on your results.
 
djbombsquad

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Maybe just do it on heavy leg days and back days and make it last longer with hup a every day .
 
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Thanks for the discount code Humble. I have not disappeared, I will be back in 2 more months with 10 month long bloodwork after being on mk677 10 months. Yes, like all drugs taken chronically, I'm sure it becomes less effective over time, however, 75 points increase after 8 months daily is not bad at all. I still love the great sleep and dreams. Now, however, the month I took the irc stuff, my sleep was not that great, and no special dreams, it was very weak stuff, and only slight acidic taste compared to the more potent stuff I am back on now, super nasty lingering taste and great daily effects, still loving the stuff. I'm sure to probably take a break after 10 months, can't wait to see what the bloodwork reveals then. Will also get ahold of some narrowslabs soon to review, will be back to give review for that soon.

I have no afficilation with any of these places, just trying to avoid getting bad stuff in the future. latest IRC bio stuff did not like, tried for a month, felt no difference, it was so weak, and taste was weak to boot, after taking it for 1 month, then switched to some other potent stuff I had in storage, and immediately felt the clarity of mind, energy, and great sleep/dreams, buyer beware get pure stuff and test the taste.
 
tregar

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IGF-1 range for my age group of 48 = 67 to 205 ng/ml

4-6-18, baseline igf -1 = 227 ng/ml----------------------------------------------------- baseline
4-11-18, 2 days on 4iu of Chinese pharm grade gh = 380 ng/ml----------------increase of 153 points
4-25-18, 2 weeks on mk677 only = 372 ng/ml----------------------------------------increase of 145 points
9-7-18, 6 months on mk677 only = 322 ng/ml----------------------------------------increase of 95 points
11-2-18, 8 months on mk677 only = 304 ng/ml--------------------------------------increase of 75 points

304 ng/ml igf-1 is equivalent of 3.2 iu pharm grade GH from China, as 95 point raise per each 1iu of hgh for me.
igf 8 month.jpg

10 month on mk677 25mg in the am upcoming 1st week of January.
 

City Boy

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IGF-1 range for my age group of 48 = 67 to 205 ng/ml

4-6-18, baseline igf -1 = 227 ng/ml----------------------------------------------------- baseline
4-11-18, 2 days on 4iu of Chinese pharm grade gh = 380 ng/ml----------------increase of 153 points
4-25-18, 2 weeks on mk677 only = 372 ng/ml----------------------------------------increase of 145 points
9-7-18, 6 months on mk677 only = 322 ng/ml----------------------------------------increase of 95 points
11-2-18, 8 months on mk677 only = 304 ng/ml--------------------------------------increase of 75 points

304 ng/ml igf-1 is equivalent of 3.2 iu pharm grade GH from China, as 95 point raise per each 1iu of hgh for me.
View attachment 174379
10 month on mk677 25mg in the am upcoming 1st week of January.
To be honest mate looking at the results it’s not clear whether this has steadily dropped down after 2 weeks or it just spiked and dropped and has then gradually dropped if it’s dropped another 20 on the next test it would appear to a steady decline and need some time off to reset I’ve been on it most of this year switched to taking in the morning as BG was high fasted when taking it in the evening
 
tregar

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Yes City Boy. MK677 spikes and drops (it is only the equivalent of 4iu hgh for about the 1st 2 weeks), and then
around the equiavlent of 3.2 hgh thereafter thus far.

I decided to take a break from the 25mg of mk677 in the morning as an experiment...and have been taking nothing for several days now, Recall that I have taken it for 8 months straight (April thru Nov).

I have noticed no withdrawl side effects whatsover, and sleep has still been good, pleased about. It seems like a very benign compound in that there is no withdrawal or rebound sides upon stopping.

I will update the 1st post on this page on Monday about T3 stuff that admin_error mentioned about.
 
tregar

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I have stopped taking it for about a week now, noticed no withdrawal symptoms, it's quite possible that I sleep better naturally without the stuff, I seem to sleep for a long time (9 to 10 hours) naturally like my old self, it's quite possible that after 8 months on the mk677 that I was beginning to wake up a bit earlier than I wanted to, so that's why I decided to go off the stuff. Taking a long break, don't know if I'll ever go back on or not. Plus the fact of seeing the GH bloodwork drop the longer I was on the stuff irritated me, is there really a point in increasing your gh only 75 points anymore from baseline? Chronic administration with all drugs leads to the inevitable tolerance, unless it is the actual natural GH or testosterone, etc. that your body uses.

I would recommend keeping your use of it at 6 months to avoid tolerance/declining GH spurts. Perhaps a tiny rise in cortisol at 8 months was the cause of waking up a tiny bit earlier in the morning, perhaps due to using the mk677 past the 6 month point, I have no idea, just my guess. I got a good 6month run out of it for sure though, but I think 8 months was pushing it a bit. Might be a good idea to cycle the stuff for best effects (6months on, 6 months off, or something similar).

I attached a graph of several users from a study showing that levels began to drop for all of them around the 6 month point
mk graph.jpg
 

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