Bloodwork study of 4iu GH vs peptides & MK677 (similar to 2-3 iu GH)

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Compilation of MK677 bloodwork results

What we are finding is that some people using MK677 and having bloodwork done are testing around the equivalent of 3iu of GH, and some lucky individuals are testing as high as the equivalent of 4iu of GH.

I had baseline IGF-1 bloodwork done (227), tested 4iu of Chinese pharm grade GH after 3 days (380), and am currently on a 4 week run of 15mg MK677 by itself, when I will have bloodwork done in several weeks to do a comparison as well, when I will report back with bloodwork.

After a week, I am a fan of MK-677, I weigh my own caps (as the taste is terrible) with a 1mg scale, and prefer taking it 1st thing in the morning, function fine on it, have a sense of wellbeing, muscle-fullness + pumps, increased recovery from workouts + anti-aging benefits as I am 48. It does feel like several IU of GH to me. Personally, I sleep very well at night by taking it in the morning. Yes, there is some appetite increase, but the fat percentage has actually gone down by 1% allready on the MK677 + year-round keto diet except for 25g carbs 1 hour pre-workout (always from crunchy peanut butter, glycemic index of 14) and postworkout on workout days. I consume 180g of protein a day, with 50g of that from met-rx daily and fats are kept high. Non-workout days carbs are kept to less than 20g. The peanut butter helps to give me energy for the workout. Also on TRT of 200mg test c a week as well, with 1/8th to 1/4mg armidex twice a week with each 100mg shot. I continue to loose fat while fat free mass is up. Also happy to report that blood pressure is normal. I own two books on HGH: "Grown young with HGH" and "Growth Hormone Secretagogues in Clinical Practice", both books have a discussion about the results and benefits of MK677, and how it was discovered.

Very long time reader, first time poster in this section, lifted for 15 years in my youth, age now is 49, started lifting again several months ago, thank goodness for muscle memory, making great progress again.

I just got the results back after using a chinese generic (pharm grade) for only 3 days, I did the testing improperly, as I later read you are supposed to be "on it" for at least 2 weeks before testing IGF-1, but here are my results anyways. I will post the actual labs when I get home.

Anyhow, I took 4iu on Sunday, 3iu on monday, then took tuesday off (24 hours), then took a 4iu shot into shoulder in the morning and had bloods pulled 2 hours later, my baseline was igf-1 of 227 ng/ML [high] (ref range for my age is 67 to 205) and the bloodwork after the 4iu shot of GH came back 380 igf-1, so that was a rise of 153, not bad for only around 2 days "on". Looks to be around 95 point jump per each 1iu. In the future I will use the stuff for 3 weeks straight at 4iu, and then have a proper "stable igf-1" bloodwork done.

I am now looking into using MK677 every now and then (take gh one month, then take only mk677 the next month, then back to gh following month, etc.) as a way to save money. Best article on MK677 I have read with charts and graphs from most of the studies: The Beauty of Modern Science: Ibutamoren (MK-677):

The Beauty of Modern Science: Ibutamoren (MK-677) - Mind And Muscle
hxxp://mindandmuscle.net/articles/beauty-modern-science-ibutamoren-mk-677/

I have read of one person (Fitraver) who posted bloodwork with a 135 point IGF-1 increase with using just 12.5mg of MK677. I am just curious if I can get the same reading with 15mg after several weeks. MrSaturatedfat when from 232 igf1 to 312 igf1 on 25mg, thebigone went from 150 to 242 igf1 on 20mg and machine5150 went from 141 to 217 igf1 on 20mg. Sayitaintsoap went to 376 igf1 from an unknown baseline. Simply google their names + words mk677 + bloodwork to read more.

If I can get a good reading off several weeks of MK-677 (say an 80 to 100 point increase), I think I would then alternate it monthly (one month gh only, one month mk677 only) with the 4iu a day (5 on 2 off) of GH in order to save funds.

Here are the results of the research I did so far:
------------
self:
227 igf1---->380 igf1 (4iu chinese generic pharm grade) = 153 point jump

Peptides:
-----------
Alpha6164's (medical doctor's best friend):
167 igf1---->272 igf1 (100mcg grf(1-29) + 100mcg ghrp2 x 3 times a day) = 105 point increase

MK677:
---------
Fitraver:
224 igf1---->359 igf1 (12.5mg mk677) = increase of 135 points*
MrSaturatedfat:
232 igf1---->312 igf1 (25mg mk677) = increase of 80 points**
thebigone:
150 igf1---->242 igf1 (20mg mk677) = increase of 92 points***
machine5150:
141 igf1-----217 igf1 (20mg mk677) = increase of 76 points****
Sayitaintsoap:
unknown igf1---->376 igf1 (25mg mk677) = unknown increase*****

*See Fitraver post "bloods on 12.5mg mk677"
**See Mrsaturatedfat post "37 days on mk677"
***See thebigone post "Humatrope,MK677 and other GH labs for you guys"
****See machine5150 post "MK677 Before and After Blood Work w/ IGF Levels Raised 53.9%"
*****See sayitaintsoap post "THT's MK-677 review and blood work"

**Notice the similar point jumps between peptides and mk677, either one seems to reach a max of around 100 igf-1 points.

Anyhow, I now switched to only 15mg a day of Mk677, and will use this for 3 weeks, then have my bloodwork done so I can compare it to the 4iu of GH.

p.s. I have a question: I have read of several brothers who take a lesser dose of GH (around 2iu) with 10 to 15mg of Mk677 and report great progress, and that it saves them money. But I cannot understand how this works, as I would think the body would then detect the high amount of circulating igf-1 from the GH, which would then in turn tell the pulse from the mk677 to "not work". But this appears not to be the case...why is this so? MK677 can only reach say an increase of 75 to 100 extra IGF-1 points, and never above this as the body self-regulates it according to already circulating IGF. I just don'tunderstand how the two can be taken together and apparently work so well? I don't plan on doing this, just wondering.
------------------------------------------------------------
ref 1: additional information on mk677 only:
A few favorite quotes on Mk-677 at lower dosage:

Cybersage (from forum):
Yes, Fitraver saw an over 100 point increase while running it at 12.5mg (half dose)
Sandpig: (9/6/2017)
Drop down to 12.5 . Eventually the lethargy and other issues will slowly fade. Once they do, you can bump it up again. Took me two months at 12.5 before I could go to 25.
Elvia1023: (19,000 posts)
Everyone responds differently but 25mg is far too much for you. Others are fine at that dose but most aren't. I would recommend 10-12.5mg and with that the side effects will be minimized but the results still there. You won't be as full and pumped but you will feel multiple times better. 10-12.5mg is great for muscle fullness, pumps, recovery, size and strength. I am fine at 10mg but once I get to 15mg and over I can barely function and the fatigue is unbearable. I actually prefer MK-677 to HGH in many ways... especially for gaining size.
RamboStallone (9/6/2017: 7,000 posts):
This is why I personally recommend starting at 5mg. MK677 increases gh/igf levels for a 24hr period from a single dose, this is longer than any other peptide or GH product, and in my opinion stronger than any gh supp including exogenous GH. I've used this stuff for years now and everytime I restart it anything over 5mg puts me on my ass. It's all the sides of increased gh/igf just more pronounced with MK677 then any other gh product including the effects. I blow up on the stuff immediately. The cts is unbearable. My recommendation, lower the dose brother.
ref 2: additional information on peptides only:

Alpha6164 (medical doctor and bodybuilder, from the long 60 page thread at prof muscle, he performed nearly a dozen bloodtests and charged them to his medical practice):
I dont think peptides in usual 2-3x daily can equal 5iu of quality GH daily. Here is why. When i was on 5iu of Rips daily, my IGF was in the 600s. That is coming from a baseline of 160s. We know from three different tesamorelin studies that 2mg of tesamorelin raised IGFs 109-180 from basline. So if i started with 160 i could go to 260-340. Now that is a great number from baseline and can be almost a 200% increase and you will get fat loss benefits, anti-aging etc. But definitely not in the range of 5iu of synthetic GH.

My best friend and partner was on 100/100mcg of GRF/GHRP-2 three times a day and his IGF increased about 120 from baseline. So very in line with 2mg of tesamorelin.
Alpha6164 said
My best friend used GRF1-29/ghrp-2 100/100 three times daily and his IGF went from 167 to 272 in 8 weeks. Yes we are not getting IGFs in the 500-700s as with high dose GH but having a rise of 40% on such a small dose is pretty significant.
Alpha6164 in conclusion said:
Peptides will raise your GH as if you were on 2-3iu of synthetic GH daily. So it is great for people that wanna be on anti-aging dosage or for fast loss purposes.

Using a 100/100mcg combo 3x daily will raise your IGF similar to if you were on 2-3iu of GH daily. Most people on 4iu of GH will have IGFs in the high 300s to low 400s. But raising your IGF by 100-150 points from baseline can only help you with better recovery, healing, metabolism etc.
ref3: will post 1st two bloodwork results when get home.
 
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Thanks Jebrook and Cgkone. I have no problem doing the Mk677 only bloodwork (after being on 3 weeks), then the 4iu GH only bloodwork again (this time after 3 weeks on) as IGF-1 tests have become much more affordable, you can now find them on-line for $70 or so, simple to do, I use a labcore near me that is brand new and out of the way, usually zero wait time, and get the results back in 2 to 3 business days.

The chinese pharm grade GH runs about 160 for 100iu while the mk677 powder runs about 15 for a month's worth at 15 to 20mg. I cannot use cjc-dac as it raises my bloodpressure too much, but have used mod grf(1-29) + ghrp2 in the past, but find the mk677 cheaper and less hassle and through my research on bloodwork, have found that either one gives similar max igf-1 raises of around 100 points, so the choice is yours. The nitrogen retention properties of MK677 is also a plus, see article below.

"MK-677, an Orally Active Growth Hormone Secretagogue, Reverses Diet-Induced Catabolism."

https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/83/2/320/2865101
hxxps://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/83/2/320/2865101
 
Jebrook

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I am currently researching 2 IU’s of Hum-atropin in the morning and 12.5 mg of a MK-677 before bed. Fat is melting off. Test and EQ are also in the mix.
 
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Glad to hear Jebrook! I have a whole page in my notes full of various post from others who report the same great results you mention with a combo of low dose GH with low dose MK677.

see thread "GH mk677 combo" at Professional Muscle with comments from Mike Arnold.

Mike Arnold:
I think it's a great combo, especially when trying to build muscle tissue. People do it all the time with great results, so it speaks for itself. It saves the person money, stops IGF-1 induced negative feedback from shutting down endogenous growth hormone production, ensures that the body has elevated levels of all the different GH isoforms, and provides a constant supply of GH throughout the day (compared to exo. GH, which only keeps GH blood levels elevated for roughly 8 hours).

MK-677 also has its own unique set of benefits, such as appetite stimulation and greater increases in muscle fullness when compared to exo. GH on an iu to iu basis.
 
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update: I am doing so well at 15mg, that I am thinking of raising the dose to 20mg, and staying at that level...fat percentage continues to drop while on the mk677 + year round ketogenic diet (less than 20g carbs on non-workout days, but 25 grams pre-workout and 25 grams post-workout on workout days to fuel workouts and recovery) while fat free mass is still increasing. Protein is 180g a day (50g from met-rx) and fats are high. Workouts are 3 times a week. Recovery is very, very good. If I go to 20mg, I will stay there for 3 weeks, then have the bloodwork done to compare to the baseline IGF-1 and 4iu of Chinese pharm grade IGF-1 bloodwork I had done recently....will report back in a few weeks with bloods. Take care.
 
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1st lab is baseline igf-1 [227, high] (age 48, ref is 67 to 205 ng/mL)

2nd lab is igf-1 [380, high] after being on 4iu of Chinese pharm grade for only 2 days (95 point increase per each 1iu)

3rd lab (upcoming in 3 weeks) is igf-1 after being on 20mg of mk677** (by itself) for 3 weeks

** note: taking 20mg mk677 by itself in morning with 200mcg huperzine A + NOW brand EGCg caffeine free green tea extract--400mg (contains 200mg EGCg/80% catechins, using these to help keep somatostatin down).
lab.jpg
lab11.jpg
Note: I have been taking the mk677 in the morning only and sleep very well at night (normal 8 hours plus), vivid dreams are often noticed (similar to GH). I get disrupted sleep (get less sleep) when I tried taking it before bed or even a few hours before bed, Keep in mind that the body needs some time to adjust to the compound I think as well. I had problems with lethargy in the past (when I tried mk677 months ago for a few days, then gave it up) since I was taking it at night and getting less sleep which I think led to tiredness during the day at work. My body does not react well to taking anything before bed. But when I take the MK677 in the morning, I get a good sense of well-being every day (my spouse even said I had been coming home every day after work in a good mood, and that she loved the change) and no lethargy issues thus far after a week. Everyone is different and you have to find what works for you. Mike Arnold also reported he gets no lethargy on it, so I guess everyone responds differently. Water retention does not seem to be too bad from the compound while being on a low carb targeted keto diet.
 
RickyBlobby

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Interesting. Might have to give MK a shot.
 
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Sounds good RickyBlobby

I have bumped up my dose to 25mg the past few days, still no lethargy, actually noticed increased energy at work, great sleep at night, increased recovery from workouts, and the good sense of well-being continues day after day, it does actually feel like I am younger if that makes any sense, I love the way it makes me feel. I take 25mg every morning with my coffee, along with huperzine A and egcg capsule. I have decided to be patient, and give it one more week (2 weeks total before I go and get bloodwork, as I want to get a good stable igf-1 reading).

I have been asked the following question, and here is my response: I dont know if adding in peptides on top the mk677 will actually send levels too much higher, as there seems to be a limit the body will allow it to reach, as it senses the increased igf-1, and keeps it within a boundary, that is the boundary of high end igf-1 produced by a young adult. I have seen a study by jimmyinkedup who used mk677 with cjc1295 at 750mcg a week, and his levels still only rose no more than 80 points. I would love to see the bloodwork if anyone has a counter to this argument, so far I have seen none posted.

Jimmyinkedup (25mg mk677 with 750mcg cjc1295 a week):
IGF Baseline Test: 193.4 , this draw: 273.2 (flag:High)
MK677 should bring you to the high level of a young adult if you are already at the high end for an older adult.
Older folks (59-225ug/L)
young adult (116-358 ug/L)

Ref levels from the MK677 study on healthy older adults.
Effects of an Oral Ghrelin Mimetic on Body Composition and Clinical Outcomes in Healthy Older Adults: A Randomized, Controlled Trial.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2757071/
hxxps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2757071/

Here is another fascinating new study on the use of arginine/ornithine from 2010 by Zajac, Adam that shows greatly increased GH and igf-1 levels when taking both amino acids (you can find them combined together from many places like NOW or puritan's pride) right before a workout and at other times of the day:

https://journals.lww.com/nsca-jscr/Fulltext/2010/04000/Arginine_and_Ornithine_Supplementation_Increases.28.aspx
hxxps://journals.lww.com/nsca-jscr/Fulltext/2010/04000/Arginine_and_Ornithine_Supplementation_Increases.28.aspx

Figure 1 from the study: there was a 200 point increase in igf-1 from 400 to 600 ng/ml during exercise with those who took the 2 amino acids pre-workout at 3 weeks

Figure 2 from the study: there was a 1.5 fold increase in growth hormone during exercise with those who took the 2 amino acids pre-workout at 3 weeks.

p.s when I was younger I used to take GH fuel by twinlab (no longer made) before every workout, as it was a high dose combo of arginine/ornithine (just like the study above) and made tremendous progress with it, I used it for many years.

** I would suggest adding in 3 grams L-arginine + 2.2 grams L-ornithine pre-workout on top the daily mk677 to see further increased levels of growth hormone and igf-1. An MK677 study I read in the past mentioned that those who exercise can increase there levels even more while on it (see mindandmuscle article to the ref).

Anyhow, I will be back in about 1 and 1/2 week from now (after being on 2 weeks) to post my bloodwork from the daily 25mg mk677.

Figure 1: The plasma insulin-like growth factor 1 concentrations before and after 3 weeks of resistance training with and without arginine and ornithine supplementation (200 point increase in igf-1 during and after exercise (recovery) at 3 weeks with those who used supplementation).

Figure 2: The plasma growth hormone concentrations before and after 3 weeks of resistance training with and without arginine and ornithine supplementation (1.5 fold increase in GH during exercise) at 3 weeks with those who supplemented.
gh 1.jpg
gh 5.jpg
View attachment Arginine_and_Ornithine_Supplementation_Increases.28.pdfArginine and Ornithine Supplementation Increases Growth Hormone and Insulin-Like Growth Factor-1 Serum Levels After Heavy-Resistance Exercise in Strength-Trained Athletes

Zajac, Adam1; Poprzęcki, Stanisław2; Żebrowska, Aleksandra3; Chalimoniuk, Małgorzata4; Langfort, Jozef3,5

Having bloodwork pulled this Wed after being on 25mg MK677 for two weeks, will post results 3 business days later.
 
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Bloodwork has been taken after being on 25mg of MK677 for 2 weeks, will post results in several business days when it comes back.

Just as Huperzine A + EGCG are used to lower somatostatin, Arginine was found to stimulate GH secretion by "suppressing endogenous somatostin secretion" by Julia Alba Roth o. from the Journal of Endocrinology.

It turns out that oral arginine and ornithine are particularly effective at blocking somatostatin and therefore releasing GH when you add a couple of additional factors to it, choline (CDP choline) and vitamin B5 (pantothenate). That's because GH release involves the cholinergic nervous system.

Therefore, a combination of MK677 25mg a day with 3g arginine + 2.2g ornithine taken before workouts and sleep (and making sure 1.5 to 2 hours is allowed away from other food before taking, just like the study posted above) seems like a no brainer to me, and why I've ordered a bottle of 250 capsules of arginine/ornithine combo (super cheap) to start taking in the future, (along with CDP choline + vit b5) then have more bloodwork done after being on the amino acid combo + MK677 for about a month, to see if the levels raise even higher than just MK677/huperzine A/EGCG alone. I figure, the more somatostatin blockers in the system at optimum times, the better.
 
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I have a feeling this stuff at 25mg for 2 weeks raised my igf-1 to a pretty decent level from a baseline of 227, as at the end of my 2nd week, I noticed moderate increases in strength (up 5+lbs) on all lifts upperbody, and an extra 10lbs added to squat and 20lbs to leg press, hamstring curl up 10lbs as well, very full feeling in the muscles, good nitrogen retention when combined with the 2grams per lb of body weight in protein, 50grams of that from met-rx daily after workout or with dinner on non-workout days. I plan on adding in 3grams of HMB next week daily to further increase LBM and strength.

I will have the results of the mk677 bloodwork at the end of the day on Friday.
 
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So I got the results back from the bloodwork after being on 25mg of mk677 only for 2 weeks, and the result was 372 ng/ml.

That's an increase of 145 points from baseline!

227 baseline igf-1----->380 igf-1 after being on 4iu of Chinese pharm grade GH for 2 days

227 baseline igf-1----->372 igf-1 after being on mk677 only for 2 weeks (see attachment).

So, in conclusion, being on mk677 for 2 weeks was similar to being on 4iu of Chinese pharm grade GH, for me anyhow, as the bloodtest proves it.

This is an incredible raise in igf-1 for my age of 48 as reference is 67-205 for my age group, and the mk677 for 2 weeks brought me beyond the high range for a young adult in their early 20's.

I couldn't be happier, this helps explain the increases in strength at the gym, as well as the fast recovery from workouts.

MK677 should bring you to the high level of a young adult if you are already at the high end for an older adult.
Older folks (59-225ug/L)
young adult (116-358 ug/L)

Ref levels from the MK677 study on healthy older adults.
So I could not be happier that MK677 brought me beyond the very high level range for a young 20 year old. I could only imagine what it could do for a 20 year old.

Mk677 at 25mg a day cost me only 15 a month for the pure powder vs 170 a month for 100 iu of pharm grade Chinese GH at 4iu for 20 days, so the cost savings is quite substantial, and shows that a person could even alternate the two (say 5iu GH) the 1st month to using only mk677 then 2nd month and back and forth should they desire to save money, or just stay on mk677 to remain at a 4iu GH level.

p.s. keep in mind I took 25mg of mk677 every morning along with huperzine A and EGCG just once a day of both. You could also use CDPcholine and vitamin B5 in place of the huperzine A, this all helps to lower somatostatin.That's because GH release involves the cholinergic nervous system.

For what it's worth, I just started a new experiment taking 3g of L-arginine + 1.5g L-ornithine before workouts and 1st thing in the morning on an empty stomach along with the 25mg mk677 + huperzine A + egcg, and for the first time I have noticed tingling in the fingers (just like high dose gh) for about 4 hours total after taking all together as arginine/ornithine are both potent somatostatin inhibitors (see 2010 study I posted from Zajac, Adam) I believe the combo of all these somatostatin inhibitors along with the mk677 may be sending my igf-1 even higher then the latest lab, so in the future one day I will have another blood taken to see if the addition of arginine/ornithine is helping to send the igf-1 levels even higher.
mk677 lab.jpg
 
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So in conclusion (for me personally):

self 4iu of GH for just 2 days ---------> increased igf-1 levels 68% from baseline.

self 25mg of MK677 @ 2 weeks-----> increased igf-1 levels 64% from baseline.

note: MK677 was taken in the morning along with 100mcg huperzine A + 200mg caffeine free EGCG to help lower somatostatin.

Here is a cool graph from the link I posted in post #1 (article on MK677)
graph.jpg
 
Bintherduntht

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What we are finding is that some people using MK677 and having bloodwork done are testing around the equivalent of 3iu of GH, and some lucky individuals are testing as high as the equivalent of 4iu of GH.

I had baseline IGF-1 bloodwork done (227), tested 4iu of Chinese pharm grade GH after 3 days (380), and am currently on a 4 week run of 15mg MK677 by itself, when I will have bloodwork done in several weeks to do a comparison as well, when I will report back with bloodwork.

After a week, I am a fan of MK-677, I weigh my own caps (as the taste is terrible) with a 1mg scale, and prefer taking it 1st thing in the morning, function fine on it, have a sense of wellbeing, muscle-fullness + pumps, increased recovery from workouts + anti-aging benefits as I am 48. It does feel like several IU of GH to me. Personally, I sleep very well at night by taking it in the morning. Yes, there is some appetite increase, but the fat percentage has actually gone down by 1% allready on the MK677 + year-round keto diet except for 25g carbs 1 hour pre-workout (always from crunchy peanut butter, glycemic index of 14) and postworkout on workout days. I consume 180g of protein a day, with 50g of that from met-rx daily and fats are kept high. Non-workout days carbs are kept to less than 20g. The peanut butter helps to give me energy for the workout. Also on TRT of 200mg test c a week as well, with 1/8th to 1/4mg armidex twice a week with each 100mg shot. I continue to loose fat while fat free mass is up. Also happy to report that blood pressure is normal. I own two books on HGH: "Grown young with HGH" and "Growth Hormone Secretagogues in Clinical Practice", both books have a discussion about the results and benefits of MK677, and how it was discovered.

Very long time reader, first time poster in this section, lifted for 15 years in my youth, age now is 49, started lifting again several months ago, thank goodness for muscle memory, making great progress again.

I just got the results back after using a chinese generic (pharm grade) for only 3 days, I did the testing improperly, as I later read you are supposed to be "on it" for at least 2 weeks before testing IGF-1, but here are my results anyways. I will post the actual labs when I get home.

Anyhow, I took 4iu on Sunday, 3iu on monday, then took tuesday off (24 hours), then took a 4iu shot into shoulder in the morning and had bloods pulled 2 hours later, my baseline was igf-1 of 227 ng/ML [high] (ref range for my age is 67 to 205) and the bloodwork after the 4iu shot of GH came back 380 igf-1, so that was a rise of 153, not bad for only around 2 days "on". Looks to be around 95 point jump per each 1iu. In the future I will use the stuff for 3 weeks straight at 4iu, and then have a proper "stable igf-1" bloodwork done.

I am now looking into using MK677 every now and then (take gh one month, then take only mk677 the next month, then back to gh following month, etc.) as a way to save money. Best article on MK677 I have read with charts and graphs from most of the studies: The Beauty of Modern Science: Ibutamoren (MK-677):

The Beauty of Modern Science: Ibutamoren (MK-677) - Mind And Muscle
hxxp://mindandmuscle.net/articles/beauty-modern-science-ibutamoren-mk-677/

I have read of one person (Fitraver) who posted bloodwork with a 135 point IGF-1 increase with using just 12.5mg of MK677. I am just curious if I can get the same reading with 15mg after several weeks. MrSaturatedfat when from 232 igf1 to 312 igf1 on 25mg, thebigone went from 150 to 242 igf1 on 20mg and machine5150 went from 141 to 217 igf1 on 20mg. Sayitaintsoap went to 376 igf1 from an unknown baseline. Simply google their names + words mk677 + bloodwork to read more.

If I can get a good reading off several weeks of MK-677 (say an 80 to 100 point increase), I think I would then alternate it monthly (one month gh only, one month mk677 only) with the 4iu a day (5 on 2 off) of GH in order to save funds.

Here are the results of the research I did so far:
------------
self:
227 igf1---->380 igf1 (4iu chinese generic pharm grade) = 153 point jump

Peptides:
-----------
Alpha6164's (medical doctor's best friend):
167 igf1---->272 igf1 (100mcg grf(1-29) + 100mcg ghrp2 x 3 times a day) = 105 point increase

MK677:
---------
Fitraver:
224 igf1---->359 igf1 (12.5mg mk677) = increase of 135 points*
MrSaturatedfat:
232 igf1---->312 igf1 (25mg mk677) = increase of 80 points**
thebigone:
150 igf1---->242 igf1 (20mg mk677) = increase of 92 points***
machine5150:
141 igf1-----217 igf1 (20mg mk677) = increase of 76 points****
Sayitaintsoap:
unknown igf1---->376 igf1 (25mg mk677) = unknown increase*****

*See Fitraver post "bloods on 12.5mg mk677"
**See Mrsaturatedfat post "37 days on mk677"
***See thebigone post "Humatrope,MK677 and other GH labs for you guys"
****See machine5150 post "MK677 Before and After Blood Work w/ IGF Levels Raised 53.9%"
*****See sayitaintsoap post "THT's MK-677 review and blood work"

**Notice the similar point jumps between peptides and mk677, either one seems to reach a max of around 100 igf-1 points.

Anyhow, I now switched to only 15mg a day of Mk677, and will use this for 3 weeks, then have my bloodwork done so I can compare it to the 4iu of GH.

p.s. I have a question: I have read of several brothers who take a lesser dose of GH (around 2iu) with 10 to 15mg of Mk677 and report great progress, and that it saves them money. But I cannot understand how this works, as I would think the body would then detect the high amount of circulating igf-1 from the GH, which would then in turn tell the pulse from the mk677 to "not work". But this appears not to be the case...why is this so? MK677 can only reach say an increase of 75 to 100 extra IGF-1 points, and never above this as the body self-regulates it according to already circulating IGF. I just don'tunderstand how the two can be taken together and apparently work so well? I don't plan on doing this, just wondering.
------------------------------------------------------------
ref 1: additional information on mk677 only:
A few favorite quotes on Mk-677 at lower dosage:

Cybersage (from forum):

Sandpig: (9/6/2017)

Elvia1023: (19,000 posts)

RamboStallone (9/6/2017: 7,000 posts):


ref 2: additional information on peptides only:

Alpha6164 (medical doctor and bodybuilder, from the long 60 page thread at prof muscle, he performed nearly a dozen bloodtests and charged them to his medical practice):

Alpha6164 said

Alpha6164 in conclusion said:


ref3: will post 1st two bloodwork results when get home.
Seems complicated... Why not just run HGH???

Who's doing your bloodwork? Can you run this mk product year round?

HGH must be ran at least 6-12 months.

I find it hard to believe an oral product can come anywhere close to actual hgh...
 
Bintherduntht

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So in conclusion:

4iu of GH for just 2 days --------> increased igf-1 levels 68% from baseline.

25mg of MK677 @ 2 weeks----->increased igf-1 levels 64% from baseline.

note: MK677 was taken in the morning along with 100mcg huperzine A + 200mg caffeine free EGCG to help lower somatostatin.
Good work.
But not worth it in my opinion.

But still man, good work!!!
 
tregar

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Seems complicated... Why not just run HGH???

Bintherduntht said:
Who's doing your bloodwork? Can you run this mk product year round?

HGH must be ran at least 6-12 months.

I find it hard to believe an oral product can come anywhere close to actual hgh...
Thanks for the comments Bintherduntht, glad you appreciate the research. I had 3 bloodwork tests done over a period of time, each of them cost me $70, so I spent $210 total. The lab that pulls the blood is Labcore, the test were ordered by a doctor through an on-line site where you can request to have labs done, you take the request to Labcore, they pull the blood, and you have results in 3 business days. Why MK677 over HGH? simply cost, the mk677 at 25mg a day cost me 15 a month, as I make my own caps using a 1mg scale, the GH on the other hand costs me 170 for 25 days worth at 4iu, I get basically the same igf-1 rise from 25mg of mk677 as I did the 4iu of Chinese pharm grade, plus the MK677 has the added benefits of great nitrogen retention, but I don't get quite the same fat burning effects with mk677 as I do HGH, so it's a compromise.

But I found the mk677 is great for mass + moderate strength gains, LBM increase + a good sense of well-being every day, I actually do feel younger if that makes any sense, need less sleep, great recuperation from workouts, and very full feeling or pump in the muscles, nothing wrong with HGH, I love both, as I am not only a bodybuilder but a scientist, I wanted to do the bloodwork to see if the bloods matched the gains I was seeing, the sense of well-being, etc. A 145 point in IGF-1 levels is nothing to sneer about and very good for increased muscle, increased strength, anti-aging, better recovery + better energy during the day I have noticed, feel younger not as old anymore if that makes any sense, both are good stuff, even medical doctor and bodybuilder alpha6164 who performed a dozen bloodtest on various peptides said a 100 point increase is good for all those things.

Bintherduntht said:
For me, its not that I sleep longer, I find I actually need less sleep because the sleep I do get is so deep
Same here, whether on GH or mk677, I don't sleep as longer anymore, because the sleep I do get is so
deep as well, I find this amazing, still boggles my mind.
 
Bintherduntht

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Seems complicated... Why not just run HGH???

Bintherduntht said:
Thanks for the comments Bintherduntht, glad you appreciate the research. I had 3 bloodwork tests done over a period of time, each of them cost me $70, so I spent $210 total. The lab that pulls the blood is Labcore, the test were ordered by a doctor through an on-line site where you can request to have labs done, you take the request to Labcore, they pull the blood, and you have results in 3 business days. Why MK677 over HGH? simply cost, the mk677 at 25mg a day cost me 15 a month, as I make my own caps using a 1mg scale, the GH on the other hand costs me 170 for 25 days worth at 4iu, I get basically the same igf-1 rise from 25mg of mk677 as I did the 4iu of Chinese pharm grade, plus the MK677 has the added benefits of great nitrogen retention, but I don't get quite the same fat burning effects with mk677 as I do HGH, so it's a compromise.

But I found the mk677 is great for mass + moderate strength gains, LBM increase + a good sense of well-being every day, I actually do feel younger if that makes any sense, need less sleep, great recuperation from workouts, and very full feeling or pump in the muscles, nothing wrong with HGH, I love both, as I am not only a bodybuilder but a scientist, I wanted to do the bloodwork to see if the bloods matched the gains I was seeing, the sense of well-being, etc. A 145 point in IGF-1 levels is nothing to sneer about and very good for increased muscle, increased strength, anti-aging, better recovery + better energy during the day I have noticed, feel younger not as old anymore if that makes any sense, both are good stuff, even medical doctor and bodybuilder alpha6164 who performed a dozen bloodtest on various peptides said a 100 point increase is good for all those things.
Great work man! ����
Doesn't hgh do more than just raise IGF?

When I started my GH, the first thing to go was the fat. Skin looks better, was starting to shed/bald from AAS, GH put thick hair back up there!

I have pretty weak joints, got full body tendonitis couple months back, completely ruined my gains.

My joints now are insanely stronger! Blows deca out of the water. Where I once needed elbow wraps/knee wraps, I no longer need them. Recovery is amazing.

For me, its not that I sleep longer, I find I actually need less sleep because the sleep I do get is so deep
 
tregar

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Bintherduntht said:
Great work man! ����
Doesn't hgh do more than just raise IGF?

When I started my GH, the first thing to go was the fat. Skin looks better, was starting to shed/bald from AAS, GH put thick hair back up there!

I have pretty weak joints, got full body tendonitis couple months back, completely ruined my gains.

My joints now are insanely stronger! Blows deca out of the water. Where I once needed elbow wraps/knee wraps, I no longer need them. Recovery is amazing.
Thanks! Yes, hgh has many great properties all by itself besides the igf-1 it generates in the liver. Glad to hear the GH worked wonders for you not only with joints but skin and hair as well. I have noticed with the mk677 my hair and nails have been growing very fast. Skin-tightening effects are also generated by HGH/mk677 due to increased production of elastin.

Studies have have been carried out with participants taking MK677 for 2 years with no desensitization to the compound, it continued to work...in fact igf-1 levels continued to rise even higher at the 1 year point:https://watermark.silverchair.com/jcem4249.pdf?token=AQECAHi208BE49Ooan9kkhW_Ercy7Dm3ZL_9Cf3qfKAc485ysgAAAa0wggGpBgkqhkiG9w0BBwagggGaMIIBlgIBADCCAY8GCSqGSIb3DQEHATAeBglghkgBZQMEAS4wEQQMbUWFk75AqIvZQXNDAgEQgIIBYOqWESnM4y6oleIatkJ3V0bx6bq6dKrbQ7MPi8U3beqC4-qXrA5GtMyAhqGYBTfr2KfP4x7RuyQHd6-0xMlQQutFaF1vdj3FmGMrG6_K8K5soTzVloc03gYAmH7YV4aPdmrm_ht6rWUV0CUuE0mkt10ETUyNtJsEe04SqVPaAf-B68-98a8fZs8HFqyzg_BOYbQgWMtznZ3ELbePD_WLrhM4v0ImpwWliKf0LRyHpVpvCn4TKIpWuk8vOJsnSH34nItJXd-ciyq3EabIIph0CnpjYn7UB03Tx7_6RRP04wO4oEIMb1fpmFS8dNCPpwEjz0gPVLjzMgvkXnbFeBpPtwO-6pPN3SugLTA5O2aVzlTmhMKW7DVYCDRqhcvcAYsXoUptybw0Z0Ip2LuoCdwt_ONZIO3li8R9OiX73tv4K6DvhdDIckne8J6eAitcMkJdhkZgBpUA37x8KQD2ue_vJm4

p.s keep in mind that I don't experience lethargy from the pure compound (I cap it), but I keep wondering why so many get lethargy from it. Anyone else here also NOT get lethargy from it? I believe Mike Arnold said once he does not get lethargy (just like myself) as well. Rather, I get a sense of youth-like well-being all day from it. I also worked my way up to 25mg, starting at 15mg for 3 days, then 2 days at 20mg, then 25mg after that.
 
tregar

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In conclusion: comments on the 2 weeks: remember that everyone reacts differently, I have been using it at 25mg every morning for 2 weeks, get no lethargy, great sense of well being, increased energy, even my spouse said my mood improved after coming home from work the past 2 weeks, as I was in a good mood compared to my normal stressed self. I actually feel younger on the stuff at age 48. I spend only 15 a month for 25mg a day, as I get the pure powder and weigh it myself into caps with a cheap quality 1mg scale. Keep in mind I did work my way up to 25mg, by starting at 15mg for day 1-3, then 20mg for 2 days, then went up to 25mg.

Perhaps the increase in igf-1 and increased amount of low level (12+ a day) GH pulses helps to explain why I feel younger on the stuff. Strength increased in the gym by 5 lbs+ on all upper body in 2 weeks for same reps, while squats and leg press went up 20 lbs (and +10lbs on hamstring curl) for same reps while on the mk677...I'm staying on this stuff forever (with breaks here and there) absolutely love it.
-----------
To sum up the results of the research I did so far:
-----------
self:
227 igf1---->380 igf1 (4iu chinese generic pharm grade) = 153 point jump

Peptides:
-----------
Alpha6164's (medical doctor's best friend):
167 igf1---->272 igf1 (100mcg grf(1-29) + 100mcg ghrp2 x 3 times a day) = 105 point increase

MK677:
---------
self:
227 igf1---->372 igf1 (25mg mk677) = increase of 145 points******
Fitraver:
224 igf1---->359 igf1 (12.5mg mk677) = increase of 135 points*
MrSaturatedfat:
232 igf1---->312 igf1 (25mg mk677) = increase of 80 points**
thebigone:
150 igf1---->242 igf1 (20mg mk677) = increase of 92 points***
machine5150:
141 igf1-----217 igf1 (20mg mk677) = increase of 76 points****
Sayitaintsoap:
unknown igf1---->376 igf1 (25mg mk677) = unknown increase*****

*See Fitraver post "bloods on 12.5mg mk677"
**See Mrsaturatedfat post "37 days on mk677"
***See thebigone post "Humatrope,MK677 and other GH labs for you guys"
****See machine5150 post "MK677 Before and After Blood Work w/ IGF Levels Raised 53.9%"
*****See sayitaintsoap post "THT's MK-677 review and blood work"
******self: note took in morning with 100mcg huperzine A + 200mg caffeine free EGCG to help lower somatostatin (instead of huperzine A you could also use CDPcholine + vitamin B5).
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1st lab is baseline igf-1 [227, high] (age 48, ref is 67 to 205 ng/mL)

2nd lab is igf-1 [380, high] after 4iu of Chinese pharm grade for 2 days (95 point increase per each 1iu)

3rd lab is igf-1 [372, high] after 25mg mk677 for 2 weeks
lab baseline.jpg
lab g.jpg
lab mk.jpg
 
tregar

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Concluding notes:

bottom graph: It turns out the level of 372 igf-1 the MK677 brought me too is right around the level of most 16 year old boys and girls (between 300 to 400 igf-1).

StanG [from the thread "the no-bs scoop on mk677"]:
Now lets talk a bit abut side effects. I see a ton of people talking about bloat with Mk677. There is a lot of confusion as to why this occurs and how to prevent it. Many people drop the dosage however by doing so you directly impact the potency and effectiveness of Mk. The optimal dose for Mkk677, without a doubt, is 25mg/day. The bloat is caused by an effect in the kidneys caused by the increase in GH on vasopressin. This can easily be offset by the addition of a simple low dose daily aspirin protocol. Thats right, one 82mg aspirin/day with impact ADH (anti dieuretic hormone or vasporessin) to the point where it eliminated the bloat associated with Mk677.
Dropping the dose to 10 to 15mg can also reduce bloat but will still be very effective, studies with just 10mg still showed large increase in igf-1. Another way to control is to be on a targeted year round low carb, high fat/protein keto-diet (which I follow) with increased carbs around workout times/days. Don't think of the minor increased water weight as bad, it has allowed for some rather fast moderate increases in strength in the gym + the muscles feel pumped and very full, and my joints feel incredible as before the mk677 I had had some joint issues which cleared right up about 2 weeks into the mk677.

I was extra hungry for the 1st week on it, but after that the increased hunger died down/went away. In 2 year studies on mk677, it was still effective (no desensitization), and the level of igf-1 at the 1 year point was actually measured and found to have increased beyond what it was at the 3 week level.

The 1st day I took it, I felt a bit funny (even euphoric) as it raises your GH level super sky high, but then the body will sense the increased igf-1 the next day or two and instill a feedback mechanism to keep it within the level of a teenager after that.
igf-1.jpeg
 

pnuma2

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Tregar, can you send me a PM? This is very interesting information and I have a few questions for you. Thanks!
 
tregar

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Thanks pnuma2, pm sent.

An increase of nearly 150 igf-1 points is no joke from mk677, and it is translating into increased strength in the gym weekly. I may not get the same fat burning effects as GH, but mk677 has the added benefit of greatly increased nitrogen retention, so it is a tradeoff, great for mass in my opinion. I am only spending 15 a month, whereas I had spent 170 a month on GH, still have plenty of GH in the fridge, but I am one of the rare people that get increased Blood Pressure when I use 4iu of gh or more, so I like the fact the MK677 does not raise my blood pressure at all, plus I feel young on it everyday with increased energy daily, super recuperation from workouts and a great pump in gym, really enjoying the strength increases.

Update, today after a 3 day rest, and at the end of week 3 on 25mg mk667, did back and biceps today, barbell pull to back increased by 10lbs for same reps, db pull to back increased by 5lbs for same reps, barbell curl increased by 5lbs for same reps, and db curl up by 5 extra reps for same lb.

Only other supplements: still on weekly TRT test cyp 200mg a week (year round), 100mcg of huperzine A + 400mg of EGCG taken with coffee along with 25mg mk677 in morning. Also get 1g of protein daily per lb of bodyweight (50g of that from met-rx). Will be adding in 3g of HMB starting next week.

I won't bore you with anymore strength updates, so I'll end it here.
 
The Whizard

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What would be the recommended dosing off MK677?
 
tregar

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The Whizard:
What would be the recommended dosing of MK677?
I started at 15mg for the 1st 3 days, then went up to 20mg for 2 days, then 25mg everyday after that. I am running baseline igf-1 on my spouse as she wants to start and remain on mk677 at a dosage of 10mg daily, I will report back the bloodwork findings on her in the future. I will also be conducting additional bloodwork on myself several months from now, to see where the levels are after being on 25mg mk677 + choline enhancers (as GH works through the choline system) for many months. Attached study of mk677 on older adults shows levels keep increasing and stay at a high level even at the 1 year mark. Study mentioned that all participants took it in the morning and some experienced increased hunger for several months before that died down. 25mg MK677 for 2 weeks increased my igf-1 by 145 points from a baseline of 227 to 372 after 2 weeks (around the equivalent of 4iu of GH).
mk677 1 year.jpg
 
scoooter

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I'm really trying to figure out why you want to add in HMB ?
 
tregar

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Great question scoooter.

Effects of beta-hydroxy-beta-methylbutyrate (HMB) on exercise performance and body composition across varying levels of age, sex, and training experience: A review:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2245953/
hxxps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2245953/

Those on 3 grams of HMB daily gained several pounds of extra muscle (and gained much more strength) compared to placebo, great stuff, bulk supplements has it cheap, check out the 700 reviews at Amazon on it. Also, when taken before workouts, notice the very large increase in GH and igf-1 while working out:

1g HMB raises bodybuilders' growth hormone and IGF-1 levels:
http://www.ergo-log.com/1g-hmb-raises-bodybuilders-growth-hormone-and-IGF-1-levels.html
hxxp://www.ergo-log.com/1g-hmb-raises-bodybuilders-growth-hormone-and-IGF-1-levels.html

Update: I'm at the end of nearly 4 weeks on 25mg mk667, and each week my squat has increased 10lbs, I'm up 40 lbs total on my 20 rep squat, and added 20lbs total on hamstring curl, x 8 reps over 2 weeks times as leg day was this morning.

I would suggest taking 3g of arginine and 1.5 grams of ornithine and 1g of HMB 45 minutes before each of your workouts to further increase your GH and igf-1. I have been taking the arginine/ornithine combo before every workout and plan to add the hmb in there too as soon as it arrives next week. MK677 studies have shown that exercise while on it will increase your GH and igf-1 even higher.

I used to spend 170 a month to use 4iu of GH daily for 25 days, the 25mg of mk677 pure powder is around 15 a month. I would have to use 5iu of GH daily to get effects beyond the mk677, and that becomes expensive, not to mention I am one of the rare people who if I used that much GH would get a raise in bloodpressure even though my resting BP is normal, and the mk677 does not raise my BP at all, which I really like. I may not get the same fat burning effects as GH, but it makes up for it with it's increased nitrogen retention which is great for mass. Really enjoy the pumps from it, anti-aging, fast recovery from workouts, and strength increases, and my body has really changed while on the stuff, really full muscles.
hmb 1.gif
hmb 2.gif
 
scoooter

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thanks for the links and info - for the expense versus the return ratio HMB is just not valid for me. Why not try HICA if you want a metabolite of Leucine
 
tregar

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Thanks scoooter. $40 for 500g HMB at 3g a day will last 6 months with the HMB from bulk supplements (750 reviews at amazon)
 
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For those who mention they get a bit of lethargy with mk677, I would suggest the following: cdp choline at 200 to 400mg has a stimulating effect all day (the good kind) but it has to be taken with at least 125mg of vitamin b5 to work effectively, I would recommend adding in choline in the morning to see if it helps get rid of the lethargy.

I have been taking the mk677 since the beginning along with huperzine A + 400mg egcg (caffeine free) to enhance choline, several scientists have mentioned that GH increase takes place through the choline system since choline has a large effect on decreasing somatostatin whether it be huperzine A or the other inhibitors, or whether it be added in additional choline (such as cdp or alpha gpc or a combo of both with pantothenic acid). Just thought I would mention, to see if it helps.

I can recall only having 1 day of lethargy (and that was the day after I took it at night), after that I started taking the mk in the mornings only (just like the older adults study) along with the choline enchancers with my morning coffee, and got no lethargy at all (still after 1 month), rather the opposite, increased energy and well-being all day at work and at home, even mood improved considerably according to spouse.

I have added 40lbs to my squat in 1 month of being on mk677, strength and size of legs has increased considerably.

This morning I decreased the huperzine a to 1/4 of a tablet, and take it now with 200 to 400mg of cdp choline and 500mg of vitamin B5, this to all keep somatostatin low, also added in 1g of HMB x 3 times a day (one of those grams taken pre-workout to further increase GH and igf-1).
 
FRITZBLITZZ

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Man tregar you did a hell of a job. I just caught this post now but great work keeping your results bipartisan. I myself did a massive amount of research on MK677 and came up with a recipe to enhance it. I finished researching and came up with the final recipe about 1 year ago. I had a friend taking 5iu of chinese HGH. He was getting it for a lot cheaper than it usually costs but since he was the only person I could use as a guinea pig I was able to bribe him into taking my MK for 2 months without HGH. His BW from 5iu compared to my 30mg caps of MK put him at the equivalent of 8iu. Of course I was super happy after all my research. The only thing that I do have a doubt on is the fact that he only took 2 days off HGH before running MK. Even though he ran it for 2 months before getting BW, I still have just a bit of doubt having him not take a month off HGH before taking MK. It is just a small thing to think about especially for your tests that were very close together with the HGH, and you were measuring IGF1. I really don't have a chemical engineering degree in pharmaceuticals but could there be an overlap from the HGH raising your IGF1 and the MK? The reason that I had my doubts was the massive increase equivalent to 8iu but also since both HGH and MK have to be ran for 6 months to see rock solid results, I was curiouse if the lingering effects of the HGH were still present for the second BW. I only bring it up as something to think about. My friend had GH tested in his BW along with IGF1. I don't remember the IGF1 numbers. I am only saying that it MAY be possible that the HGH was raising your IGF1 and just say that it your IGF1 was still raised by 50% of the original total increase after the 2 weeks, than the MK only raised it by another 46% of the total increase. It's just food for thought.

I still think you did an amazing job on keeping your results from being skewed by what you intended for the results. Great job all around and what a great post. I already copied it on Evernote.
 
Matthersby

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Man tregar you did a hell of a job. I just caught this post now but great work keeping your results bipartisan. I myself did a massive amount of research on MK677 and came up with a recipe to enhance it. I finished researching and came up with the final recipe about 1 year ago. I had a friend taking 5iu of chinese HGH. He was getting it for a lot cheaper than it usually costs but since he was the only person I could use as a guinea pig I was able to bribe him into taking my MK for 2 months without HGH. His BW from 5iu compared to my 30mg caps of MK put him at the equivalent of 8iu. Of course I was super happy after all my research. The only thing that I do have a doubt on is the fact that he only took 2 days off HGH before running MK. Even though he ran it for 2 months before getting BW, I still have just a bit of doubt having him not take a month off HGH before taking MK. It is just a small thing to think about especially for your tests that were very close together with the HGH, and you were measuring IGF1. I really don't have a chemical engineering degree in pharmaceuticals but could there be an overlap from the HGH raising your IGF1 and the MK? The reason that I had my doubts was the massive increase equivalent to 8iu but also since both HGH and MK have to be ran for 6 months to see rock solid results, I was curiouse if the lingering effects of the HGH were still present for the second BW. I only bring it up as something to think about. My friend had GH tested in his BW along with IGF1. I don't remember the IGF1 numbers. I am only saying that it MAY be possible that the HGH was raising your IGF1 and just say that it your IGF1 was still raised by 50% of the original total increase after the 2 weeks, than the MK only raised it by another 46% of the total increase. It's just food for thought.

I still think you did an amazing job on keeping your results from being skewed by what you intended for the results. Great job all around and what a great post. I already copied it on Evernote.
Completely agreed. This thread has been unbelievably informative and has really sold me on what looks to be an incredible alternative to GH/IGF
 
tregar

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Thanks Fritzblitzz and Matthersby for your comments, and glad to hear about your friend's experiment Fritzblizz. If your friend ran mk677 for 2 months by itself then his bloodwork should reflect just the mk677 and not be influenced by any of the hgh he took previously. I like yourself did several months research reading about HGH and mk677 before I took the plunge.

When I measured the HGH, it was after only taking it for 2 days, the I stopped and started taking the mk677 for 2 weeks. The HGH would have only raised my igf-1 for a total of about 72 hours with that small dosage at only 2 days, so I don't think there was any way it would have influenced the igf-1 reading I got off the mk677 2 weeks or 14 days later, good point however. HGH also raises my blood pressure, I could tell it was elevated for up to 16 hours after the last or 2nd HGH shot, no blood pressure elevation from then on. While I was on the mk677 (and still on it 1 month later) I've gotten no blood pressure elevation, which is one of the great things I like about the mk677.

self:
baseline = 227 igf-1
2 days on 4iu Chinese pharm grade GH (used to treat dwarfism in China in the hospitals) = 380 igf-1 (increase of 153 points)
14 days on 25mg mk677 by itself with 100mcg huperzine A + 400mg caffeine free egcg = 372 igf-1 (increase of 145 points)
Fritzblitzz, I'm not surprised your friend may have gotten such a high reading off the mk677, I thought you might find this below interesting, these are the results from Jeffg353 on-line after he gave himself a 10iu shot of different brands of GH, then had blood drawn 3 hours later and posted his igf-1 results.

Jeffg353:
Here's all the testing results I've had done so far. 10iu IM in delt about 3hrs before blood drawl.

Baseline - ......Serum....0.1.........Igf-1....230
Grey Tops - ....Serum....21.8.......Igf-1....385
Ansomone - ..Serum...16.0........Igf-1....480
Black Tops - ..Serum...27.8........Igf-1....426
Yellow Tops - Serum...15.8........Igf-1....415
Zptropin ........Serum...40.2........Igf-1.....351
Omnitrope-....Serum...18.0........Igf-1....coming soon
In other words, the 372 reading I got off MK677 after 2 weeks by itself is similar to the igf-1 blood draw reading Jeff got 3 hours after a shot of 10iu of grey tops.

Alpha 6164:
Most people on 4iu of GH will have igf's in the high 300's to low 400s. When I was on 5iu
of Rips daily, my igf was in the 600s. This is coming from a baseline of 160s.
The MK677 I am taking is giving me a reading similar to 4iu of GH, I don't think it will ever
go any higher than that, if I wanted anything stronger, I would have to take 5iu of GH, and that becomes expensive, and I don't think I would personally like the blood pressure elevation from it, most people don't get the BP raise, but I am one of the rare people who does. 5iu of GH would have most likely raised my igf-1 to 475 or so, as I got 380 off of 4iu, about a 95 point increase per each 1iu of GH.

Anyhow, I can't complain, cause medical doctor and bodybuilder alpha6164 (who did a dozen bloodtests on himself after testing various peptides vs hgh said once long ago in his massive 60 page thread):
Raising your IGF by 100 to 150 points from baseline can only help you with better recovery, healing, metabolism, etc.
In 1 month on 25mg mk677 in the morning + choline enhancers (to lower somatostatin), I now use 200mg cdp choline + 100mg alpha gpc choline + 25mcg huperzine A + 400mg caffeine free egcg) all with my morning coffee, I've added 40lbs to my squat, gained 10lbs of muscle in 1 month with no fat increase, and all my lifts continue to go up weekly, work out 3 days on 1 week, and 2 days on 2nd week due to my long work schedule. The pumps are un-real in the gym, muscles dense, have a higher tolerance for pain, enchanced recovery from workouts, extra energy at work, have the igf-1 reading of most 16 year olds, and even feel like a super young adult, great for anti-aging. I will have another bloodwork done at the end of July to post latest igf-1 after being on mk677 for many months.

This is all a bit confusing I admit, all I know is that personally, the MK677 I am using is around the equivalent of 4iu GH according to the bloodwork I had done plus at 2 weeks into mk677, the two joint issues I was having while lifting went completely away, great lubrication.
 
81dcs

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I have a question for u guys who know more about mk 677. U see im pretty dang gyno sensitive so would me adding mk677 n 2 my regimen give me trouble n da gyno section and if so will a serm be sufficient?? Thanks because I plan on adding it pct but I don't know for how long or how much I should run(mk677)at a time because id like to use it to trim up a little if I could.
 
tregar

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Ibutamoren is a gh releasing secratogogue (not a sarms, and thankfully it is not on the upcoming ban list, they got it right this time for once)...you don't have to worry about gyno symptoms with it at all 81dcs. Side effects: Just some water bloat (It's not too bad for me as I stay keto on off days, but up carbs pre/post workout days), increased hunger (this was a reported side effects in the studies, and took months for it to die down with some participants, after 1 month it is not too bad for me at all), lethargy (I get none whatsoever, instead increased energy + good sense of well-being + better overall mood).

Keep in mind that everyone is different, I can't go near cjc-1295 as it elevates my blood pressure pretty bad and gives me lethargy + feel strange on it, whereas the opposite with mk677 (it agrees with me all around).
 
tregar

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MK677 similar to GH is going to lower your insulin sensitivity a bit, I would suggest taking 1 capsule of Arazo's blood sugar support (read 600 reviews at amazon) or anything similar 1/2 hour before every meal & protein shake to improve insulin sensitivity + shuttle excess glucose towards muscle and liver and not fat storage. These glucose disposal agents have been found by many reviewers to work even better than metformin without the side effects, and blood sugar was lowered from 130 and 120 down to 80 and similar readings for those with issues, helps with weight loss, etc. 1g Cinnamon supplement (not the extract) was also shown in several studies to lower blood sugar levels by 25%, just read the study at ergo-log.
 
81dcs

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MK677 similar to GH is going to lower your insulin sensitivity a bit, I would suggest taking 1 capsule of Arazo's blood sugar support (read 600 reviews at amazon) or anything similar 1/2 hour before every meal & protein shake to improve insulin sensitivity + shuttle excess glucose towards muscle and liver and not fat storage. These glucose disposal agents have been found by many reviewers to work even better than metformin without the side effects, and blood sugar was lowered from 130 and 120 down to 80 and similar readings for those with issues, helps with weight loss, etc. 1g Cinnamon supplement (not the extract) was also shown in several studies to lower blood sugar levels by 25%, just read the study at ergo-log.
I already use glycoshield by HPScience would that suffice? ?

Sent from my SM-S975L using AnabolicMinds mobile app
 
The Whizard

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The Whizard:
I started at 15mg for the 1st 3 days, then went up to 20mg for 2 days, then 25mg everyday after that. I am running baseline igf-1 on my spouse as she wants to start and remain on mk677 at a dosage of 10mg daily, I will report back the bloodwork findings on her in the future. I will also be conducting additional bloodwork on myself several months from now, to see where the levels are after being on 25mg mk677 + choline enhancers (as GH works through the choline system) for many months. Attached study of mk677 on older adults shows levels keep increasing and stay at a high level even at the 1 year mark. Study mentioned that all participants took it in the morning and some experienced increased hunger for several months before that died down. 25mg MK677 for 2 weeks increased my igf-1 by 145 points from a baseline of 227 to 372 after 2 weeks (around the equivalent of 4iu of GH). View attachment 164832
Do you have any Labs for your wife yet?
 
TheSuppGuy

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I've been taking Somatozine, 4 full bottles, before bed, without knowing it was a SARM............... The thing I feel is that I become super hungry. Like starving kind of hungry craving for sugar only, so everytime I take it before bed. I end up having a super big cheat meal 1-4 hours later. Therefore I stopped taking it
 
The Whizard

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I've been taking Somatozine, 4 full bottles, before bed, without knowing it was a SARM............... The thing I feel is that I become super hungry. Like starving kind of hungry craving for sugar only, so everytime I take it before bed. I end up having a super big cheat meal 1-4 hours later. Therefore I stopped taking it
It's not a SARM.

If this results in a cheat meal you could take it imediately before bed.
 
tregar

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The whizard said:
Do you have any Labs for your wife yet?
Thanks for question Whizard. Had to wait till this Friday before she get's her first baseline igf-1, so it will be upcoming in a couple weeks. I will also do another lab on myself end of July after being on mk677 for 4 months. Going on 1.5 month now, get 8 to 10 hours sleep on off days, strength still going up weekly, leg day was yesterday and 20rep squat went up another 10lbs, leg press and leg curl all up as well. Up 50lbs on squat in 1.5 months. I'm taking 1/2 a huperzine tablet (50mcg) with a choline formula that is 200mg cdpcholine + 100mg alpha gpc choline (300mg choline total) along with the mk677 every morning with my coffee (these choline enhancers help keep somatostatin low). Added 3 grams of HMB daily 1 week ago (with one of those grams taken pre-workout).

I take the mk677 in the morning just like the participants in the study did, the increased hunger will help to get down a good breakfast, the hunger goes down a bit after 1 first week, and by 1.5 months it is not bad at all. Some participants in the study noted they had increased hunger for several months before it died down. I am certainly enjoying having the GH and IGF-1 level of most 16 year olds, the 145 point increase has made a big difference.
 
Curiousmonkey

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What kind of pct would I need to run if I took MK677 for say, 2 months?
 

mase1

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Posted in anabolics, but I have felt decreased libido on mk677. Prolactin maybe? Just not normal libido. Can get it going but just not the usual uncontrollable.
 

CatSnake

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Concluding notes:

bottom graph: It turns out the level of 372 igf-1 the MK677 brought me too is right around the level of most 16 year old boys and girls (between 300 to 400 igf-1).

StanG [from the thread "the no-bs scoop on mk677"]:

Dropping the dose to 10 to 15mg can also reduce bloat but will still be very effective, studies with just 10mg still showed large increase in igf-1. Another way to control is to be on a targeted year round low carb, high fat/protein keto-diet (which I follow) with increased carbs around workout times/days. Don't think of the minor increased water weight as bad, it has allowed for some rather fast moderate increases in strength in the gym + the muscles feel pumped and very full, and my joints feel incredible as before the mk677 I had had some joint issues which cleared right up about 2 weeks into the mk677.

I was extra hungry for the 1st week on it, but after that the increased hunger died down/went away. In 2 year studies on mk677, it was still effective (no desensitization), and the level of igf-1 at the 1 year point was actually measured and found to have increased beyond what it was at the 3 week level.

The 1st day I took it, I felt a bit funny (even euphoric) as it raises your GH level super sky high, but then the body will sense the increased igf-1 the next day or two and instill a feedback mechanism to keep it within the level of a teenager after that.View attachment 164472
great thread man.

btw, hGH (and MK and GHRPs) increases aldosterone, not vaspopressin, hence the increase water/sodium retention.
 

CatSnake

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So in conclusion (for me personally):

self 4iu of GH for just 2 days ---------> increased igf-1 levels 68% from baseline.

self 25mg of MK677 @ 2 weeks-----> increased igf-1 levels 64% from baseline.

note: MK677 was taken in the morning along with 100mcg huperzine A + 200mg caffeine free EGCG to help lower somatostatin.

Here is a cool graph from the link I posted in post #1 (article on MK677)View attachment 164425
how long were you off the hGH before you started MK?
 
tregar

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Thanks for the correction Catsnake. I only took the HGH for 2 days when I was tested, then I stopped the HGH and started taking the MK677 every morning....2 weeks after taking the MK677 daily I was tested. External HGH in the very short time frame I took it (2 days) should only affect your levels for around 72 hours post application. I still have a fridge full of some GH kits which I have never gone back to use, as I love the mk677 so much. I would have to use 5iu daily of the HGH to get results more impressive than the mk677, which gives me the same results blood test wise and performace wise as 4iu GH, plus I am one of the rare people who get a blood pressure rise from GH, but MK677 does not do that to me at all, thankfully. So it's better for my health.

The good news: While I was surfing a week ago, I hit a wave and my ear started bleeding, must have been a cut, ear filled up with blood for several days, waited for the bleeding to stop, could not hear out of the ear for a week, went to doctor 2nd time, this time the blood was dried and he was able to wash the dried blood out with peroxide, I can now hear perfectly.
Just thankful it was not a perforated eardrum.

Bad news: I ate up the remainder of the money on my health card until end of July when funds are put back on it, so the testing on spouse will have to wait until end of July when she will have baseline igf-1 tested, then testing after being on mk677 for 2 weeks, but first at the end of July I will retest myself after having been on mk677 for 4+ months. She told me she has no problem waiting a couple months before being tested and then starting the MK677 if she so desires. She tried 2iu of GH daily but she noticed no difference, I am thinking her igf-1 and GH is naturally so high (she looks super young for her age) that she would benefit instead from the mk677, as it is often recommended that women not use any more than 2iu of gh. I bet she was only getting a replacement dose when she was using 2iu of gh daily, so that's why she didn't notice anything.

I am still doing very well, sleep a good normal 8 to 10 hours a night, never get tired during the day like I used to before starting mk677, in other words I have more energy every day, never even a single bit tired all day long, love the increased energy, feel like a 16 year old, the sleep I get is very good 2 months since starting the MK677. 20-rep Squat is up over 60 lbs, bench press way up, all lifts way up, was able to add 5+ lbs every workout to all upper body lifts for same reps week after week, and legs went up 10lbs weekly. I absolutely love MK677 + of course the weekly 200mg TRT cypionate year round.

My mood daily is impressive, always in a good mood whereas before starting the mk677 my moods were up and down and I often came home a bit miserable, but just the opposite still after 2 months of mk677. I come home in a great mood, able to stay up late into the evening, whereas before I often fell asleep way too early on the couch after my 12 hours shift, not anymore. I enjoy myself and time now. I truly feel super-young. We have a waterpark nearby, and love going to it, to enjoy nature and the river. There is a special peace of mind that only nature can give you. As I used to be a deep water life guard there, it brings back good memories.

The 3 grams of HMB daily has also helped which I started 2 weeks ago, combined with of course the 25mg daily mk677 in the morning with coffee and 1/2 a huperzine A + 200mg cdp choine + 100mg alpha GPC choline. Also been on 50grams metrx a day, as I have always loved met-rx pure plus protein powder, it helps me to hit my daily 200g of protein.
 

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