Beet Root Pre-workout

LiveToLift said:
I've heard you warn people about nitrate toxicity plenty of times in no way referring to a product in particular. Thank you for bringing up these points. You have said the same thing to people stacking enhanced with other nitrate products so to say it is a biased response is completely untrue. Thanks for the info coop as always.
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well of course -

if I was a rep for the same company where my R&D guy attacked another company, making insults and knocking the integrity of said company in uncalled for fashion --

I too would speak up vociferously to defend my co-worker

:D
 
Guys, I'm done on AM. If you have any questions or concerns about ANY topic, I will be happy to answer you as always at my email address. I apologize to this great community and all the good people here, perhaps we canbe together down the road :)
 
in point of education to the forum pertaining to our formulation of Max Pump, please note:

Potassium nitrate and sodium nitrate that other supplement companies are using can be harmful to people's health.
These ingredients are used to make explosives and used in gun powder.
Our betaine nitrate is naturally occurring in red beets and we figured out a way to manufacture and extract bonded betaine nitrate.

We do not publicly disclose how much nitrates is contained in this product (we don't disclose the manufacturing process of the ingredient); no one outside of our R&D and ppl who need to know, know the actual amount..it is a bonded material. Its not betaine plus nitrates.

It is a reacted material that makes up one ingredient called betaine nitrate. When you test for bonded material it will have one single peak that represents the melting point.

what has been discussed here, in regards to any concerns over Max Pump, toxicity, has been totally irrelevant and based on no factual support pertaining to our formulation..the fact any such accusations have been made - without knowing pertinent information - is rather unconscionable
 
mr.cooper69 said:
Guys, I'm done on AM. If you have any questions or concerns about ANY topic, I will be happy to answer you as always at my email address. I apologize to this great community and all the good people here, perhaps we canbe together down the road :)
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WTF my seven dollars doesn't seem like such a big deal now.

:worried:
 
snagencyV2.0 said:
in point of education to the forum pertaining to our formulation of Max Pump, please note:

Potassium nitrate and sodium nitrate that other supplement companies are using can be harmful to people's health.
These ingredients are used to make explosives and used in gun powder.
Our betaine nitrate is naturally occurring in red beets and we figured out a way to manufacture and extract bonded betaine nitrate.

We do not publicly disclose how much nitrates is contained in this product (we don't disclose the manufacturing process of the ingredient); no one outside of our R&D and ppl who need to know, know the actual amount..it is a bonded material. Its not betaine plus nitrates.

It is a reacted material that makes up one ingredient called betaine nitrate. When you test for bonded material it will have one single peak that represents the melting point.
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the simple truth is SNAG - your "warnings" seem a little biased

a great many ppl are currently/have been consuming multiple KNO3 or Sodium Nitrate-containing products, for yrs..
stacking items seems to be the popular method these days

we thank you for your concern to the public, insofar as our product formulations go..
this might be the first time of course you have chosen to take your time and critique our product[as well as other products containing nitrates]

as for claiming a "clear conscience" - well I feel that doesn't even deserve response, but please -
worry yourself not about Nitrates sources in general conscience and how we conduct ourselves, and construct our products..
we simply have no issues here
seems like you would have your hands full with your own products, but again thank you for your efforts

you running around in your current capacity pointing fingers at other companies - as a representative of FINAFLEX company - does nothing but make you look bad..if this is the marketing tactic you guys wish to employ, then good luck; how you conduct yourself is no concern to us, unless I am drawn in here to (once again) clarify accusations against companies making Nitrate products made to the forum in general when we are under unprovoked and unfounded personal attack as to character and integrity

best to you
 
snagencyV2.0 said:
in point of education to the forum pertaining to our formulation of Max Pump, please note:

Potassium nitrate and sodium nitrate that other supplement companies are using can be harmful to people's health.
These ingredients are used to make explosives and used in gun powder.
Our betaine nitrate is naturally occurring in red beets and we figured out a way to manufacture and extract bonded betaine nitrate.

We do not publicly disclose how much nitrates is contained in this product (we don't disclose the manufacturing process of the ingredient); no one outside of our R&D and ppl who need to know, know the actual amount..it is a bonded material. Its not betaine plus nitrates.

It is a reacted material that makes up one ingredient called betaine nitrate. When you test for bonded material it will have one single peak that represents the melting point.

what has been discussed here, in regards to any concerns over Max Pump, toxicity, has been totally irrelevant and based on no factual support pertaining to our formulation..the fact any such accusations have been made - without knowing pertinent information - is rather unconscionable
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such misinformation here.

#1 - Your product is in direct patent violation, how is your lawsuit with Thermolife going?
#2 - Potassium Nitrate is also used in food products such as meat and deli meats.


I love how you use bro-science to try and make your product look better. its amazing.
 
VaughnTrue said:
such misinformation here.

#1 - Your product is in direct patent violation, how is your lawsuit with Thermolife going?
#2 - Potassium Nitrate is also used in food products such as meat and deli meats.


I love how you use bro-science to try and make your product look better. its amazing.
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once again I will decline to engage in back & forth with you, VT

if you have any questions regarding litigation or the status of such, you can e-mail the company directly for that information..
since there is nothing really to talk about including the basis of such frivolous litigation, i'll not waste the time here :)

take care
 
thedarce said:
the simple truth is SNAG - your "warnings" seem a little biased
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the fact is - in the right amounts, I do not dispute this information as an opinion!

Potassium nitrate and sodium nitrate that other supplement companies are using can be harmful to people's health.

I point no fingers, and make no insinuation toward any specific company or product, at all

the fact is: nothing over ~500mg has been shown in studies to be a safe amount of consumption..
the fact is: nothing over that amount has been shown to be definitely toxic either..
the fact is, requires more study..

it is still irrelevant to the process with which we use

nothing more than education and clarification here, despite what some may accuse me of
 
snagencyV2.0 said:
the fact is - in the right amounts, I do not dispute this information!

Potassium nitrate and sodium nitrate that other supplement companies are using can be harmful to people's health.

I point no fingers, and make no insinuation toward any specific company or product, at all

the fact is: nothing over ~500mg has been shown in studies to be a safe amount of consumption..
the fact is: nothing over that amount has been shown to be definitely toxic either..
the fact is, requires more study..

it is still irrelevant to the process with which we use

nothing more than education and clarification here, despite what some may accuse me of
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I am not claiming any amount of nitrates are dangerous.

YOU'RE claiming Potassium Nitrate is dangerous, which is a flat out lie.

Would you like to continue the libel and lies, or end it now?
 
VaughnTrue said:
I am not claiming any amount of nitrates are dangerous.

YOU'RE claiming Potassium Nitrate is dangerous, which is a flat out lie.

Would you like to continue the libel and lies, or end it now?
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quite honestly I do not understand your angst VT?

we can most certainly end this now, as I see no fruitful outcome for either one of us here..

should you wish to converse further in less hostile terms, feel free to e-mail me
 
snagencyV2.0 said:
quite honestly I do not understand your angst VT?

we can most certainly end this now, as I see no fruitful outcome for either one of us here..

should you wish to converse further in less hostile terms, feel free to e-mail me
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You're directly claiming a product my company produces is dangerous. This is a lie. You are a competitor, and there is no doubt you are simply trying to protect your market share, however doing so with underhanded lies does not sit well with me.

Potassium Nitrate is not dangerous, and is included in just about every single persons diet on a daily basis. End of story.

If you keep claiming it is dangerous, there will be more than emails between us unfortunately.
 
VaughnTrue said:
You're directly claiming a product my company produces is dangerous. This is a lie. You are a competitor, and there is no doubt you are simply trying to protect your market share, however doing so with underhanded lies does not sit well with me.

Potassium Nitrate is not dangerous, and is included in just about every single persons diet on a daily basis. End of story.

If you keep claiming it is dangerous, there will be more than emails between us unfortunately.
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VaughnTrue -

your threats, both veiled and otherwise, do nothing for me..
I have stated I do not wish to engage in such petty communication, with you or anyone else

nowhere have I stated your product is dangerous; if you can read "intent" on the internet, you are truly an accomplished individual

I state emphatically: this will be the last time I give communication to you on this issue, on this forum

you can conduct yourself and see imaginary attacks where you deem fit, it does not concern me further
 
snagencyV2.0 said:
VaughnTrue -

your threats, both veiled and otherwise, do nothing for me..
I have stated I do not wish to engage in such petty communication, with you or anyone else

nowhere have I stated your product is dangerous; if you can read "intent" on the internet, you are truly an accomplished individual

I state emphatically: this will be the last time I give communication to you on this issue, on this forum

you can conduct yourself and see imaginary attacks where you deem fit, it does not concern me further
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snagencyV2.0 said:
in point of education to the forum pertaining to our formulation of Max Pump, please note:

Potassium nitrate and sodium nitrate that other supplement companies are using can be harmful to people's health.
These ingredients are used to make explosives and used in gun powder.
Our betaine nitrate is naturally occurring in red beets and we figured out a way to manufacture and extract bonded betaine nitrate.

We do not publicly disclose how much nitrates is contained in this product (we don't disclose the manufacturing process of the ingredient); no one outside of our R&D and ppl who need to know, know the actual amount..it is a bonded material. Its not betaine plus nitrates.

It is a reacted material that makes up one ingredient called betaine nitrate. When you test for bonded material it will have one single peak that represents the melting point.

what has been discussed here, in regards to any concerns over Max Pump, toxicity, has been totally irrelevant and based on no factual support pertaining to our formulation..the fact any such accusations have been made - without knowing pertinent information - is rather unconscionable
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Do you have a poor memory, or is this dementia setting in?
 
VaughnTrue said:
Do you have a poor memory, or is this dementia setting in?
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one more time: nowhere have I stated YOUR product is dangerous..
I am simply sharing my opinion on nitrates in general in X amount, based on existing (albeit limited) data that exists

I did not see you attempt to crucify cooper for, in essence, the same exact stance?

funny, how you choose to pick your conflicts....
 
snagencyV2.0 said:
one more time: nowhere have I stated YOUR product is dangerous..
I am simply sharing my opinion on nitrates in general in X amount, based on existing (albeit limited) data that exists

I did not see you attempt to crucify cooper for, in essence, the same exact stance?

funny, how you choose to pick your conflicts....
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My product contains a sane and safe level of nitrates per full serving. 600mg of Potassium Nitrate yields ~358mg of Nitrates.

I believe that high levels of nitrates may lead to severe side effects, just like high doses of caffeine will as well. More is not always better.
 
Im missing all the fun :( Quick someone tag me in!
 
VaughnTrue said:
I believe that high levels of nitrates may lead to severe side effects, just like high doses of caffeine will as well. More is not always better.
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and now we come back to the basis with which I made my own statement, that you seemed to take issue with..

when the entire time, we apparently agree on the same concept of opinion

I obviously share your view that there is pause for concern, past a certain point

but it is still just opinion!
 
Was not expecting...
 
snagencyV2.0 said:
the simple truth is coop - your "warnings" seem a little biased

a great many ppl are currently/have been consuming multiple nitrate-containing products, for yrs..
stacking items seems to be the popular method these days




if its any consolation: im just a consumer, but I had a some reps from pes double teaming me this one time about my correct understanding on some otc test boosters. though they were silenced in the forum, they both sent me private messages subtractng my rep power (as if I cared about it.) I didn't feel like I was having a genuine conversation with them; while I would acknowledge their fair points and try to clarify any misunderstandings, they seemed to miss my entire gist while hammering me on some irrelevant detail. I had to laugh when I realized one of them sent me a private message asking me to suggest a type of product I had just spoken against thinking I was a secret undercover product rep. pretty upsetting though. I had to wonder how their employer, pes, would feel about their conduct, given that I will never use one of their products again due to that injustice; if they ever pull that again, I will contact the company. I was naïve; I thought reps had rep power because they knew their stuff; now I know you just get a couple of guys who bounce rep increases off each other
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anyway, my experience with spinach tell me nitrates are awesome. im sure potassium nitrate is safe and I think someone just raised the explosive issue outside of a nutritional context, such as if ordering some causes the NSA to take heed of you; we all know potassium nitrate is safe and probably beats downing 8 aakg caps a day. I applaud both companies for using the effective dose. also, it is my understanding that only a small percentage of nitrates are converted to nitric oxide and my experience with nutrition is that we should never assume an awesome conversion rate. thus, the nitrate amounts look good to me
 
thescience said:
anyway, my experience with spinach tell me nitrates are awesome. im sure potassium nitrate is safe and I think someone just raised the explosive issue outside of a nutritional context, such as if ordering some causes the NSA to take heed of you; we all know potassium nitrate is safe and probably beats downing 8 aakg caps a day. I applaud both companies for using the effective dose. also, it is my understanding that only a small percentage of nitrates are converted to nitric oxide and my experience with nutrition is that we should never assume an awesome conversion rate. thus, the nitrate amounts look good to me
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The point I was trying to make earlier was that five ounces of spinach yields roughly one gram of nitrates. You are correct in understanding that only a small percentage of nitrates convert to nitrites and nitric oxide.
Here's a good read, if you're interested.
Invalid Link Removed
 
And the question was just posed to me whether I understand the difference between nitrate salts and the nitrates in vegetables. Yes, I do, and I understand the difference in how immediate they are or are not released.
 
iparatroop said:
The point I was trying to make earlier was that five ounces of spinach yields roughly one gram of nitrates. You are correct in understanding that only a small percentage of nitrates convert to nitrites and nitric oxide.
Here's a good read, if you're interested.
Invalid Link Removed
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i started out eating the equivalent of 180 grams of fresh spinach via this concentrate powder. I estimated 1400mg nitrates in that (though possibly more than that as the product was designed for the purpose of lifting weights( and I noticed amazing effects within 3 days. I had to cut the dose in half due to the chlorophyll content being intolerable, and I have to admit I miss the nitrate content, so ive turned to supplemental nitrates. to be honest, if I ever heard of someone getting cancer or low blood pressure from something, that's on them; I mean, how can spinach be blamed for a possible cancer connection when everyone who has ever eaten it is exposed to pollution, xrays ect. its absurd. again, there are people who live with low blood pressure their whole lives and don't know it (usually anemic.) someone like that could blame spinach or a supplement for their problem and it would probably pass muster with the FDA, but that has nothing to do with the benefits something has to someone who is taking something responsively. at 1400 spinach nitrate and even at half of that, I notice increased appetite, better recovery, and muscle hardness. those are all positives, so im glad there aren't any bs safetly restrictions on that
 
Sean1332 said:
Sooooo basically Popeye wasn't full of sh.t that while time
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the guy who sold me the spinach claims people doubled their reps in 7 days. I found that hard to believe having been pumped out of my mind on 8g of aakg a day and not seeing that significant increase in endurance. what Im going to find out is if the benefits of the spinach are entirely due to nitrates or if, say, the vitamin A etc is also contributing in the improved muscle contractions from more calcum being released.
has anyone heard of that kind of improved repition for nitrates alone?
 
snagencyV2.0 said:
since there is nothing really to talk about including the basis of such frivolous litigation, i'll not waste the time here :)

take care
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Since RK has patent filef for external sources of nitrates (beet root) ,wouldnt your product fall into that category? This is where it gets a little confusing
 
mw1 said:
Since RK has patent filef for external sources of nitrates (beet root) ,wouldnt your product fall into that category? This is where it gets a little confusing
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no, we have no worries, feel everything will come out just fine in court
but honestly - I don't wish to waste time discussing this, as it is not fruitful for anyone, and will not comment further
 
all that matters to me is companies getting supps to the public. im sure any patents would have to do with the method of extraction, as beets belong to all of us. the slightest variences make for a totally different method; mr coffee had 20 patents, and obviously theres a million ways around that since hes not the only game in town. thank god for that. anyway, who is RK? do they make any nitrate products?
 
mw1 said:
Since RK has patent filef for external sources of nitrates (beet root) ,wouldnt your product fall into that category? This is where it gets a little confusing
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If I remember correctly, his patent is one amino acids + nitrate salt and not on nitrate itself. I think it was specifically creatine nitrate he filed for but also included all aminos as well. I know a while back it was being challenged (by gaspari?) But didnt really follow it enough to know what the outcome of that was or what his claim to nitrate bound aminos currently is
 
JudoJosh said:
If I remember correctly, his patent is one amino acids + nitrate salt and not on nitrate itself. I think it was specifically creatine nitrate he filed for but also included all aminos as well. I know a while back it was being challenged (by gaspari?) But didnt really follow it enough to know what the outcome of that was or what his claim to nitrate bound aminos currently is
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Check his forum. It lists the patent app # for external sources as well
 
does anyone make a product that has standardized nitrates not bound to a single amino? just keep finding this stuff called rednite, and nobody sells it.
 
thescience said:
does anyone make a product that has standardized nitrates not bound to a single amino? just keep finding this stuff called rednite, and nobody sells it.
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Iforce Nutrition will have Potassium Nitrate at 150mg/pill available within a few days :)
 
yeah, I saw the ad but its like only available through a contest or something right now. I actually would've bought it, but I placed an order from this sketchy company online that sells a generous 360 caps just to get some asap. im kindof thinking something like a food concentrate because im theorizing the other components enhance the effect. i guess i should try the saltnitrates first to prove or disprove that though
 
thescience said:
yeah, I saw the ad but its like only available through a contest or something right now. I actually would've bought it, but I placed an order from this sketchy company online that sells a generous 360 caps just to get some asap. im kindof thinking something like a food concentrate because im theorizing the other components enhance the effect. i guess i should try the saltnitrates first to prove or disprove that though
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no contest, it was just a buy a hemavol get a free potassium nitrate. it will be available solo soon
 
GigaPaladin said:
Mr.Cooper needs to chill out and keep posting, guy knows his chit is obv very valuable around here
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It is unfortunate that a D-BAG keeps turning everything into a personal attack . . . I won't mention any names



























. . . .
 
p5sky said:
It is unfortunate that a D-BAG keeps turning everything into a personal attack . . . I won't mention any names
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LOL my my - you are so cryptic, and slick!

but you give good example of how some reps conduct themselves on this forum, showing your own unprovoked personal attack upon someone else, out of the blue..such behavior never ceases to amaze me

but I suppose you wanted me to see this? yawn..tiresome
I do not even know who you are

truly sad, how some feel the need to spend their time, when representing a company to the public

good luck to you going forward, best to the guys you rep for, and have a great day
 
snagencyV2.0 said:
LOL my my - you are so cryptic, and slick!

but you give good example of how some reps conduct themselves on this forum, showing your own unprovoked personal attack upon someone else, out of the blue..such behavior never ceases to amaze me

but I suppose you wanted me to see this? yawn..tiresome
I do not even know who you are

truly sad, how some feel the need to spend their time, when representing a company to the public

good luck to you going forward, best to the guys you rep for, and have a great day
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His name is p5sky, duh. And he doesn't rep for anyone.
Sometimes I wish I was a GDI so I could feel free to bitch every day without damaging my rep.
 
FL3X MAGNUM said:
His name is p5sky, duh. And he doesn't rep for anyone.
Sometimes I wish I was a GDI so I could feel free to bitch every day without damaging my rep.
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okay?
still have no clue who he is, but appreciate the enlightenment and correction?

simply going by his sig, looks to be representative of Omega, no?
fairly deceptive, and i'm not sure the company would be excited about any controversy he would bring about as a result of the signature

and reputations tend to build off other ppl's own "ideas" and perceptions - those who form opinions and judgements about others, whether qualified to do so, or not

thank you for taking your time here to share this morning
 
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