Primordial Performance raided by FDA

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HereToStudy said:
I will try and explain myself in a different way-

If a guy were to punch you in the face for being a snide smart ass, the news wouldn't report that he also happens to enjoy pot. The focus would be on the act they pursued him over. ;)

So why focus on the transdermals so much?
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Not even talking about the transedermals. It not surprisedthat u guys got busted if you really think you could go around placing ads for "the safest steroid ever made" and not have any recourse....I think that was the bigger concern than the transdermal situation for them. Either way PP was selling misrepresented products and were not following current label laws.
 
HereToStudy said:
I will try and explain myself in a different way-

If a guy were to punch you in the face for being a snide smart ass, the news wouldn't report that he also happens to enjoy pot. The focus would be on the act they pursued him over. ;)

So why focus on the transdermals so much?
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u said this wasnt about transdermals. or one of you guys did
 
Young Gotti said:
i believe he gets charged with intent to deceive or something along those lines
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if represent a substance as being a controlled substance and get caught u get charged with selling a controlled substance. and they calculate your penalty on a weight basis of what you sold. irregardless of whether it was 100 percent cocaine or 100 percent talcum powder
 
I took androlean last yr and the only thing it did was lighten my wallet I was sad panda
 
mw1 said:
Either way PP was selling misrepresented products and were not following current label laws.
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I'm done with this back and forth. I forgot that back when CEL was around, hormones could be sold as "Dietary Supplements." ****ing Pot calling the kettle black.

Patrick Arnold said:
u said this wasnt about transdermals. or one of you guys did
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That was my point, I was countering going deeper into what I said about transdermals as it didn't matter.
 
HereToStudy said:
I'm done with this back and forth. I forgot that back when CEL was around, hormones could be sold as "Dietary Supplements." ****ing Pot calling the kettle black.
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M-drol was a great Dietary Supplement! lol:D

Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk 2
 
HereToStudy said:
Ours were sold as cosmetics, which is why there wasn't the same ingredient label you see on dietary supplements.
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HereToStudy said:
I used those in my bath, if you didn't you missed out.

I don't know what you are trying to prove with these comments. I can state at this point with 100% certainty it had nothing to do with the transdermal gels. So we can all keep making guesses as if we know what happened, or we can wait things out.

I am not going to provide any information, but I am under impression the company will at some point in the near future.
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HereToStudy said:
I'm done with this back and forth. I forgot that back when CEL was around, hormones could be sold as "Dietary Supplements." ****ing Pot calling the kettle black.


That was my point, I was countering going deeper into what I said about transdermals as it didn't matter.
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Well dont BS and cry about the injustice when you know that PP brought it on themselves.
As for CEL, have you checked the current status of that situation?;)
 
mw1 said:
Well dont BS and cry about the injustice when you know that PP brought it on themselves.
As for CEL, have you checked the current status of that situation?;)
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Where i cry? I stated we attempted to play the game with topicals, just as you did with dietary supplements. I then made a sarcastic comment about bath salts, stated it had nothing to do with the transdermals, then stated I was done with the back and forth, yet you try to keep it going.

What happened with CEL?, Sister company sells bulk powders now and offer nothing unique to the market? or the "it's coming" displayed on the website for the revolutionary products you guys been talking about forever?

But honestly, I have no idea why I am allowing myself to keep being dragged into this. I have this wonderful liberation of just not giving a **** now, so carry on, say what you would like to say.
 
baldwanus said:
i think it has a little more to do with the transdermals.......to the best of my knowledge, they are a bit of a "grey area" within the supp industry/DSHEA.

that being said.....i would agree; FDA has more important things to be doing than raiding supp companies.
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Yeah.

We just learned about transdermals last week in my FDA regulations class.


It's unfortunate. I'm sorry to hear you guys got raided. Yet another step into things that the govt. shouldn't be doing.... More important things to focus on IMO.
 
HereToStudy said:
Where i cry? I stated we attempted to play the game with topicals, just as you did with dietary supplements. I then made a sarcastic comment about bath salts, stated it had nothing to do with the transdermals, then stated I was done with the back and forth, yet you try to keep it going.

What happened with CEL?, Sister company sells bulk powders now and offer nothing unique to the market? or the "it's coming" displayed on the website for the revolutionary products you guys been talking about forever?

But honestly, I have no idea why I am allowing myself to keep being dragged into this. I have this wonderful liberation of just not giving a **** now, so carry on, say what you would like to say.
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I can understand you're upset but throwing insults at other companies because their business model includes bulk products more so over "innovative" products is unnecessary.

Best of luck in this unfortunate situation.
 
mr.cooper69 said:
Nothing unique eh? I have bookmarked this thread so I can bump it in 8 months ;)
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send me samples
 
HereToStudy said:
Where i cry? I stated we attempted to play the game with topicals, just as you did with dietary supplements. I then made a sarcastic comment about bath salts, stated it had nothing to do with the transdermals, then stated I was done with the back and forth, yet you try to keep it going.

What happened with CEL?, Sister company sells bulk powders now and offer nothing unique to the market? or the "it's coming" displayed on the website for the revolutionary products you guys been talking about forever?

But honestly, I have no idea why I am allowing myself to keep being dragged into this. I have this wonderful liberation of just not giving a **** now, so carry on, say what you would like to say.
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You wash your mouth sir! I love my cycle assist and pct assist. :-D

Sorry just trying to add some humor to an unnecessary battle. Both companies earned my business and respect.
 
mr.cooper69 said:
Nothing unique eh? I have bookmarked this thread so I can bump it in 8 months ;)
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Love this comment! Let the games begin! I need me some CEL! I was the guy buying Hdrol for 2-3 times the original price just to stick with what I knew worked.
 
LiveToLift said:
Love this comment! Let the games begin! I need me some CEL! I was the guy buying Hdrol for 2-3 times the original price just to stick with what I knew worked.
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Wow.

Paging Celorza to the thread. He is going to be one happy camper.
 
bdcc said:
Wow.

Paging Celorza to the thread. He is going to be one happy camper.
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Omg nicely played....
 
mr.cooper69 said:
Nothing unique eh? I have bookmarked this thread so I can bump it in 8 months ;)
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Hhahaha boom!
 
I have a question. Did the FDA raid PP because it is their opinion that the DHEA isomers sold by companies like PP are illegal to sell, or do they recognize those substances as being legal dietary supplements and they suspect that PP was engaged in something illicit (I.e., essentially taking the position of, "We don't mind if they sell DHEA isomers, but we suspect that those products are just a front for selling illegal steroids")?
 
SpicedCider said:
I have a question. Did the FDA raid PP because it is their opinion that the DHEA isomers sold by companies like PP are illegal to sell, or do they recognize those substances as being legal dietary supplements and they suspect that PP was engaged in something illicit (I.e., essentially taking the position of, "We don't mind if they sell DHEA isomers, but we suspect that those products are just a front for selling illegal steroids")?
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I'm not sure that modifications to a DSHEA compound result in a DSHEA compound. Like if I put a methyl group on the alpha carbon of PEA (just kidding!)
 
mr.cooper69 said:
I'm not sure that modifications to a DSHEA compound result in a DSHEA compound. Like if I put a methyl group on the alpha carbon of PEA (just kidding!)
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LOL. That's primarily what I'm curious about -- are DHEA isomers such as 1-DHEA still legal in the same sense that DHEA is legal, or are they now illegal substances? As far as I know, the FDA hasn't announced taking a stance on the issue either way...
 
Patrick Arnold said:
if represent a substance as being a controlled substance and get caught u get charged with selling a controlled substance. and they calculate your penalty on a weight basis of what you sold. irregardless of whether it was 100 percent cocaine or 100 percent talcum powder
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"Irregardless" really, pat?
 
SpicedCider said:
LOL. That's primarily what I'm curious about -- are DHEA isomers such as 1-DHEA still legal in the same sense that DHEA is legal, or are they now illegal substances? As far as I know, the FDA hasn't announced taking a stance on the issue either way...
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1-dhea, 4-dhea, 19nor dhea are all dshea compliant, and natural, it's the ester that was attached and added on that isn't found naturally, and could be a liability...possibly?
 
jbryand101b said:
1-dhea, 4-dhea, 19nor dhea are all dshea compliant, and natural, it's the ester that was attached and added on that isn't found naturally, and could be a liability...possibly?
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Pat had presented on one of the boards (as you can imagine I am between so many, I can't remember where I have read anything over past 2 days) that the ester would be a fairly weak argument, given how an ester is not a permanent modification to the compound in the body, contrasted directly by the addition of a methyl group, which is.
 
Patrick Arnold said:
jeff novitizky is not out for big pharm

he is out for usada'

u peeps are dumb
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Ummm lol I was responding to pony steaks post. I know this has nothing to do with big pharma
 
I hope primordial can fight this you did say you was ready If the FDA came if you can fight it and think you should win then do so ??? I'm sure people would donate and other companies if you think you could win ..

Just image this primordial takes on the FDA and wins well won't the FDA look the fool and maybe think twice bout taking supplements I mean if primordial win the case you can then sue them.

If you do decide to take them on ill donate :).

If not I hope you can carry on with a new natural line you already have great products like tcf1 and I'm sure with your unique delivery methods you could make natural products so much better.

Please survive this primordial one way or another :)
 
AndroFactory was not related to PP...

Simply an ex worker extracting info and producing a knock off product.

I am sure Pat got intentionally tagged on FB as the ex-worker knew Eric and I spoke highly of

him in our industry. They might even have a decent product if the backing/support is there.

I have nothing against them, just think their online presence is pretty terrible.

-Matt
 
Jiigzz said:
Whats up with everyone attacking the word "irregardless" today...
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Probably because its not really a word. Its like the "ain't" of intellectual vocabulary lol

I'm far from perfect and I know at the end of the day PA is way smarter than me so I wasn't going to be the one to point it out
 
Truely a loss. An inovative company brought a different approach from transdermals to oral suspension and many others even offered consulatation (for a price). Sustain Alpha topical was a fav. going to be missed.
 
I think it's a fairly safe bet that PP's aggressive, to the point marketing of these products as "androgens" and "steroids" is what attracted the attention of the feds. It is commendable that they were honest and above board about everything in their products and presented research-based explanations of conversion, absorption, the carrier composition and equivalencies to actual testosterone, but in the end, I'm sure it burned them.

DSHEA compliance is open to interpretation. Making claims about the purported pharmacological effects of what is supposed to be a dietary supplement has gotten more than a few companies in trouble.

But there is a lesson to be learned through all of this for anyone else in this game. Better play it safe and watch the marketing claims or you will have armed bureaucrats kicking your door in and confiscating your inventory. And always keep an attorney on retainer.

My heart is heavy for Eric, Jered, Matt, Winslow, HTS and the others. I cannot express how truly devastated I am over this. You guys have become friends through my time as a PP forum participant and our ability to share invaluable advice back and forth has been a tremendous benefit to so many people. There will be an empty place in my heart for sure.

Godspeed, Eric and others. Onward and upward to the next great achievement!
 
Wow, what a blatant abuse of power, absolutely sickening. Surely there's a fitness junkie lawyer out there who's willing to do some pro-bono work, with how dirty this whole situation sounds I wouldn't be surprised if they had abused the legal process somewhere along the way.
 
People are trying to guess why the Feds did this raid - there's no need to guess.

This is the modus operandi of the U.S. government when it wants to send messages and put people out of business.

It happened also with Gibson Guitars - who got raided by the Feds and a bunch of their inventory seized over bull**** claims they were using illegally obtained rare woods in their fretboards. Long story short, there were no grounds for the raid but the Feds knew that Gibson would have to spend a lot of time and money fighting to get their stuff back and fighting the bull**** fines. I think Gibson, which is a lot bigger company than PP is - ended up settling out of court. So the Feds essentially extorted money out of Gibson.

Same with PP, they were looking for a target within this industry and they picked PP for a raid. Matters not if PP is guilty of what they're saying or not - the effect they wanted was for PP to go down OR pay a ****-ton of money to them and now ... mission accomplished.

That's the plain and simple of it folks. You can guess all you want about "transdermals" and "cosmetics vs supplements" or whether or not they got targeted for their bold advertising.

The reason they were targeted is because they were successful and the Feds wanted to send a message to everyone out here that THEY ARE THE BOSSES in this brave new little fascist world we live in.

EDIT: Just one more thing. Some have mentioned that you can sue for damages and wrongful prosecution or whatever. I don't know if you can or not. What I DO know - is the **** birds in the Federal Government don't give a good gawddamn about "fines" because ...

WE ARE THE ONES WHO PAY THESE FINES WITH OUR TAX DOLLARS - and not the **** heads who executed the raid.
 
Got the email within 5 minutes of being out :(. Never tried their products because I figured they would always be out and would keep updating them. Sad day for PP.
 
Damn dude this sucks ass! The only reason I didn't buy because it was so pricey but I guess that **** would have paid off!
 
They will bounce.back like SNS did
 
HereToStudy said:
Pat had presented on one of the boards (as you can imagine I am between so many, I can't remember where I have read anything over past 2 days) that the ester would be a fairly weak argument, given how an ester is not a permanent modification to the compound in the body, contrasted directly by the addition of a methyl group, which is.
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i see
 
i bet PP is done. they revolved there company around pro hormones and OTC PCT supplements. they claimed they didnt get much profit off of the products like MAP, iBCAA, creapure...etc my guess is they are done. they dont have enough money to fight the case either
 
Didn't the boss of SNS get done for possession of steroids?
 
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