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LCLT for PH or natty T booster discussion

heavylifter33

heavylifter33

Well-known member
Since LCLT upregulates AR and enhances LH secretion, would you rather run it during a PH cycle or natty booster cycle if you could only pick 1? The anecdotal will be strong with the responses here, but i'm interested in getting some conversation going on LCLT because i think it's highly underrated and needs to be expanded on. Would you reap more benefit on using it through a natty booster since your increase in T will be smaller than a PH run, LCLT's effects would be very helpful. Thoughts?
 
There is a reason it is in Mr. Supps Beastdrol and some other PH/DS, it is an effective additive to upregulate the androgen receptors. Each has its benefits, in a hormone or natty cycle, and in a perfect world I would use it during both.
 
Oh just in case anyone wants some literature:

Androgenic Responses to Resistance Exercise: Effects of Feeding and L-Carnitine.

BASIC SCIENCES

Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise. 38(7):1288-1296, July 2006.
KRAEMER, WILLIAM J. 1; SPIERING, BARRY A. 1; VOLEK, JEFF S. 1; RATAMESS, NICHOLAS A. 2; SHARMAN, MATTHEW J. 1; RUBIN, MARTYN R. 1; FRENCH, DUNCAN N. 1; SILVESTRE, RICARDO 1; HATFIELD, DISA L. 1; VAN HEEST, JACI L. 1; VINGREN, JAKOB L. 1; JUDELSON, DANIEL A. 1; DESCHENES, MICHAEL R. 3; MARESH, CARL M. 1
Abstract:
Purpose: The purpose of this investigation was to determine the effects of 3 wk of L-carnitine L-tartrate (LCLT) supplementation and post-resistance-exercise (RE) feeding on hormonal and androgen receptor (AR) responses.

Methods: Ten resistance-trained men (mean +/- SD: age, 22 +/- 1 yr; mass, 86.3 +/- 15.3 kg; height, 181 +/- 11 cm) supplemented with LCLT (equivalent to 2 g of L-carnitine per day) or placebo (PL) for 21 d, provided muscle biopsies for AR determinations, then performed two RE protocols: one followed by water intake, and one followed by feeding (8 kcal[middle dot]kg-1 body mass, consisting of 56% carbohydrate, 16% protein, and 28% fat). RE protocols were randomized and included serial blood draws and a 1-h post-RE biopsy. After a 7-d washout period, subjects crossed over, and all experimental procedures were repeated.

Results: LCLT supplementation upregulated (P < 0.05) preexercise AR content compared with PL (12.9 +/- 5.9 vs 11.2 +/- 4.0 au, respectively). RE increased (P < 0.05) AR content compared with pre-RE values in the PL trial only. Post-RE feeding significantly increased AR content compared with baseline and water trials for both LCLT and PL. Serum total testosterone concentrations were suppressed (P < 0.05) during feeding trials with respect to corresponding water and pre-RE values. Luteinizing hormone demonstrated subtle, yet significant changes in response to feeding and LCLT.

Conclusion: In summary, these data demonstrated that: 1) feeding after RE increased AR content, which may result in increased testosterone uptake, and thus enhanced luteinizing hormone secretion via feedback mechanisms; and 2) LCLT supplementation upregulated AR content, which may promote recovery from RE.

(C)2006The American College of Sports Medicine
 
^^ Good post.
 
Rhadam said:
Oh just in case anyone wants some literature:

Androgenic Responses to Resistance Exercise: Effects of Feeding and L-Carnitine.

BASIC SCIENCES

Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise. 38(7):1288-1296, July 2006.
KRAEMER, WILLIAM J. 1; SPIERING, BARRY A. 1; VOLEK, JEFF S. 1; RATAMESS, NICHOLAS A. 2; SHARMAN, MATTHEW J. 1; RUBIN, MARTYN R. 1; FRENCH, DUNCAN N. 1; SILVESTRE, RICARDO 1; HATFIELD, DISA L. 1; VAN HEEST, JACI L. 1; VINGREN, JAKOB L. 1; JUDELSON, DANIEL A. 1; DESCHENES, MICHAEL R. 3; MARESH, CARL M. 1
Abstract:
Purpose: The purpose of this investigation was to determine the effects of 3 wk of L-carnitine L-tartrate (LCLT) supplementation and post-resistance-exercise (RE) feeding on hormonal and androgen receptor (AR) responses.

Methods: Ten resistance-trained men (mean +/- SD: age, 22 +/- 1 yr; mass, 86.3 +/- 15.3 kg; height, 181 +/- 11 cm) supplemented with LCLT (equivalent to 2 g of L-carnitine per day) or placebo (PL) for 21 d, provided muscle biopsies for AR determinations, then performed two RE protocols: one followed by water intake, and one followed by feeding (8 kcal[middle dot]kg-1 body mass, consisting of 56% carbohydrate, 16% protein, and 28% fat). RE protocols were randomized and included serial blood draws and a 1-h post-RE biopsy. After a 7-d washout period, subjects crossed over, and all experimental procedures were repeated.

Results: LCLT supplementation upregulated (P < 0.05) preexercise AR content compared with PL (12.9 +/- 5.9 vs 11.2 +/- 4.0 au, respectively). RE increased (P < 0.05) AR content compared with pre-RE values in the PL trial only. Post-RE feeding significantly increased AR content compared with baseline and water trials for both LCLT and PL. Serum total testosterone concentrations were suppressed (P < 0.05) during feeding trials with respect to corresponding water and pre-RE values. Luteinizing hormone demonstrated subtle, yet significant changes in response to feeding and LCLT.

Conclusion: In summary, these data demonstrated that: 1) feeding after RE increased AR content, which may result in increased testosterone uptake, and thus enhanced luteinizing hormone secretion via feedback mechanisms; and 2) LCLT supplementation upregulated AR content, which may promote recovery from RE.

(C)2006The American College of Sports Medicine
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nice post,there is plenty more out there as well! =)
 
I take it with each dose of a PH, and also after the PCT is done to clean receptors. Id say with a PH but its also great stand alone or with a natural T booster.
 
Volek and Kraemer have 3-4 different studies regarding LCLT and recovery- I used them in the tech write-ups for HGH-Up and Cool Down

I would use it during, and for PCT as well- I think it can help in both situations
 
There also seems to be some oxidative benefit from dosing LCLT, but i'm having trouble tracking down reliable sources/trials.
 
rms80 said:
Volek and Kraemer have 3-4 different studies regarding LCLT and recovery- I used them in the tech write-ups for HGH-Up and Cool Down

I would use it during, and for PCT as well- I think it can help in both situations
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Cool down will have some LCLT, you just let part of the cat out of the bag? <meeeow?>

I've read a couple of diff places that it takes ~3 weeks for the full effects of LCLT to build up/kick in...do they level off at that point...or do they keep improving the longer one uses it? or is it known?
 
Each of the following go into the anti-oxidative effect, at least somewhat, as well as carnitine's effect on purine metabolism:

Kraemer WJ, Spiering BA, Volek JS, Ratamess NA, Sharman MJ, Rubin MR, French DN, Silvestre R, Hatfield DL, Van Heest JL, Vingren JL, Judelson DA, Deschenes MR, Maresh CM. Androgenic responses to resistance exercise: effects of feeding and L-carnitine. Med Sci Sports Exer., 2006 Jul: 38(7): 1288-96.

Kraemer WJ, Volek JS, French DN, Rubin MR, Sharman MJ, Gómez AL, Ratamess NA, Newton RU, Jemiolo B, Craig BW, Häkkinen K. The effects of L-carnitine L-tartrate supplementation on hormonal responses to resistance exercise and recovery. J Strength Cond. Res. 2003 Aug: 17(3): 455-462,

Arenas J, Ricoy JR, Encinas AR, Pola P, D'Iddio S, Zeviani M, Didonato S, Corsi M. (1991) Carnitine in muscle, serum, and urine of nonprofessional athletes: effects of physical exercise, training, and l-carnitine administration. Muscle Nerve 14:598–604.

Giamberardino MA, Dragani L, Valente R, Di Lisa F, Saggini R, Vecchiet L.(1996) Effects of prolonged l-carnitine administration on delayed muscle pain and CK release after eccentric effort. Int J Sports Med 17:320–324.

Kraemer WJ, Volek JS.(2000) l-Carnitine supplementation for the athlete. A new perspective. Ann Nutr Metab 44:88–89.
 
schizm said:
Cool down will have some LCLT, you just let part of the cat out of the bag? <meeeow?>

I've read a couple of diff places that it takes ~3 weeks for the full effects of LCLT to build up/kick in...do they level off at that point...or do they keep improving the longer one uses it? or is it known?
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Cool Down will have LCLT- it is one of my better formulas- we will have the tech write-up ready pretty soon- some of the ingredients have been a bitch to source....

As far as the time of LCLT to kick in- I don't think it is something that is really known- there is more anecdotal evidence than anything- unless you are looking at the biomarkers, and I have seen alterations from LCLT from as early as a week, up to around 3 weeks
 
Rhadam said:
Since LCLT upregulates AR and enhances LH secretion, would you rather run it during a PH cycle or natty booster cycle if you could only pick 1? The anecdotal will be strong with the responses here, but i'm interested in getting some conversation going on LCLT because i think it's highly underrated and needs to be expanded on. Would you reap more benefit on using it through a natty booster since your increase in T will be smaller than a PH run, LCLT's effects would be very helpful. Thoughts?
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Yeah it is one of the reasons we are advocating the use of Adamantium during cycle. Plus it appears DAA may be helpful for preventing some shutdown and both happen to be in the product :).
 
Rhadam said:
Since LCLT upregulates AR and enhances LH secretion, would you rather run it during a PH cycle or natty booster cycle if you could only pick 1? The anecdotal will be strong with the responses here, but i'm interested in getting some conversation going on LCLT because i think it's highly underrated and needs to be expanded on. Would you reap more benefit on using it through a natty booster since your increase in T will be smaller than a PH run, LCLT's effects would be very helpful. Thoughts?
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Great posts! Yes there is tons of great stuff on LCLT, it's one of the most underrated ingredients on this forum imo, I have used it with Dermacrine/Androhard and natural test boosters and I found an increase in overall effects compared to previous cycles without LCLT.

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oufinny said:
There is a reason it is in Mr. Supps Beastdrol and some other PH/DS, it is an effective additive to upregulate the androgen receptors. Each has its benefits, in a hormone or natty cycle, and in a perfect world I would use it during both.
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I remember seeing LCLT added when I was checking there products out:) Great addition!

Athletix said:
Yeah it is one of the reasons we are advocating the use of Adamantium during cycle. Plus it appears DAA may be helpful for preventing some shutdown and both happen to be in the product :).
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Best natty product to add in during a cycle, your really reaping tons of benefits as you said LCLT increasing the overall effects in a cycle, plus with the feedback from everyone who has been using DAA during cycle, reporting no shutdown and some others using harsh cycles, such as SuperDrol, experiencing slower shutdown effect and less shutdown then last time they ran those harsh cycles.

Everyone needs to recognize LCLT is the real deal!
 
im on trt and use it pretty much year round with breaks here and there. i use 2g bulk and and whatever amount is in hghup as my daily dose
 
I'm thinking about adding in some LCLT soon. I've just recently really found out all the benefits of it. Sounds like a good supplement to run often
 
Yeah newer research is actually showing that even smaller doses have a great impact on performance. One such study showed that both a 1 and 2g dose were able to improve performance so although higher doses may be beneficial, it doesn't mean that smaller doses are not effective and not everyone has to megadose it to see an effect :).
 
LCLT is best used in conjunction with other ingredients I feel for t boosting. Over all great solo supplement though.
 
nattydisaster said:
JD you and athletix having the same avatar is throwing me off

Use one of these!Invalid Link RemovedInvalid Link Removed
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I call dibs on green. Haha everybody point and laugh at JD, he gets the pink one!

fightbackhxc - Agreed, that is why we stacked it test boosters in our products as well, it is the perfect marriage of ingredients ;).
 
i know, i just gotta get some money together to try your products :D
 
Athletix said:
I call dibs on green. Haha everybody point and laugh at JD, he gets the pink one!

fightbackhxc - Agreed, that is why we stacked it test boosters in our products as well, it is the perfect marriage of ingredients ;).
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LOL, your not gonna catch me using the green or pink lol, the blue one rocks!
 
I'm really liking all the positive benefits of LCLT and really looking forward to trying it myself.
 
Young Gotti said:
i just got some bulk lclt....that stuff smells rank....doesn't taste to bad though
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I picked some up as well a couple weeks ago...didn't really notice any 'rank' smell with NP's or AI's bulk...but I do have 3 kids, so maybe all those years of changing poopy diapers really desensitized my sense of smell...hmmmm...:147:
 
I think overall it makes the most sense to just use as a staple, year round regardless of on or off cycle. Its cheap enough that at 2 grams a day for the AI Sports bulk without a discount code its around $10 a month. Catch a sale on it, and even cheaper. basically the price of 3 RTD shakes over the month...
 
EasyEJL said:
I think overall it makes the most sense to just use as a staple, year round regardless of on or off cycle. Its cheap enough that at 2 grams a day for the AI Sports bulk without a discount code its around $10 a month. Catch a sale on it, and even cheaper. basically the price of 3 RTD shakes over the month...
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man, sooooo wish I had picked up 2 (instead of just 1) of those 300g LCLT's during your 50% off sale... :(
 
schizm said:
man, sooooo wish I had picked up 2 (instead of just 1) of those 300g LCLT's during your 50% off sale... :(
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wish i woudl picked up ALOT more. Unfortunately money isnt necessarily growing on a tree in my backyard.
 
fightbackhxc said:
wish i woudl picked up ALOT more. Unfortunately money isnt necessarily growing on a tree in my backyard.
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No joke, I agee with you on that! Even if money did grow on trees, no doubt it'd be as shrivled up & dead as my other trees in my backyard...we're on like consecutive day 19 of over 100 degrees here...sux!

EasyEJL said:
Although it might be the best sale we have, it surely wasn't the last one we'll have :)
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'x-mas in August'....git er done! :afro:
 
Sweet- there is about 1.25 g of L-CLT per 5 capsules of HGH-Up
 
Tartrate has the tendency to smell a little fishy- choline bitartrate smells pretty similar
 
ALCAR never really bothered me taste-wise- naringin is probably the worst thing I have ever tasted, with I3C being the worst thing I have ever smelled.....
 
rms80 said:
Sweet- there is about 1.25 g of L-CLT per 5 capsules of HGH-Up
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Nice! I didn't know there was that much lclt in HGH-UP, it's honestly my favorite GH releaser for overall effects on recovery, performance, libido boost.

For crazy dreams, deep sleep and just making you feel sleepy in general I like Powerfull.
 
I just picked up a couple bottles of Anavite since it includes LCLT. I'm interested in seeing what a constant dose will do for me, especially with all the hormonals and products i run. 1gram of LCLT per serving, most i think take 2 servings a day of Anavite. 20 bucks for 1 tub which lasts 30 days @ 2 servings a day. I will probably use the bulk AI LCLT for PH or Natty cycles.
 
I'm going to pick up some of the AI sports LCLT here pretty soon and throw that in. It's fairly cheap to not at least give it a shot if anything
 
I have never tried HGH-Up is it honestly that great?
 
Yes, but I am biased :)

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This will give you some info on why it is such an effective product....
 
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