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KLEEN - The PCT Plan w/ CEL PCT Assist & Suppress C (Sponsored)

MrKleen73 said:
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It is extremely likely I will be needing surgery on this shoulder of mine. I am working around it but it is definitely a torn/abraded spot in the cartilage in the joint. It typically doesn't hurt at all, but sometimes I can feel my shoulder get hung up on the torn tissue and it drags around on it causing that interior pain, the kind that makes your stomach drop until it pulls on the esophogus making you want to hurl a little. That is just from moving my arm around not with weight like twisting the shoulder in the socket or something. Just certain rotations will get it to flair, I call it a flash pain. I know my motions I can and can't do in training and have done well to mostly avoid them. However I am going to soldier right on through this until I feel I have secured the gains from this run before having anything done to it. As long as i train smart I will be okay. I will be completely removing the seated rows from my pull days and replacing with Dead Lifts only. So pull days will be HS High Rows, Curls, Deadlifts, and maybe shrugs.
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seated rows aggravate the shoulder? is it the supraspinatus tendon, as thats the one in the rear that is common?

I have been battling a shoulder for five months now. Physical therapy, deep tissue, avoiding anything that causes pain is all I can do. Icing or pain creme as well.

Man sorry to hear about getting shoulder surgery because that means youll be out for a long and I have had my share of time off and as a avid trainer of muscles, I know how taking time off is and knowing you cant do anything but just rest. In my opinion surgery is last and I mean very last choice.
 
Talk about a bitter sweet post....on the one hand your progress on PCT is phenomenal. You upcoming diet looks tight and set up to keep the gains you worked so hard to attain. And then on the other hand you gotta get surgery...never fun but if it will put you back at 100% then i think its well worth it.

Keep Kleening it up bro, we are all backing you up!
 
MrKleen73 said:
It is extremely likely I will be needing surgery on this shoulder of mine. I am working around it but it is definitely a torn/abraded spot in the cartilage in the joint. It typically doesn't hurt at all, but sometimes I can feel my shoulder get hung up on the torn tissue and it drags around on it causing that interior pain, the kind that makes your stomach drop until it pulls on the esophogus making you want to hurl a little. That is just from moving my arm around not with weight like twisting the shoulder in the socket or something. Just certain rotations will get it to flair, I call it a flash pain. I know my motions I can and can't do in training and have done well to mostly avoid them. However I am going to soldier right on through this until I feel I have secured the gains from this run before having anything done to it. As long as i train smart I will be okay. I will be completely removing the seated rows from my pull days and replacing with Dead Lifts only. So pull days will be HS High Rows, Curls, Deadlifts, and maybe shrugs.
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John Smeton said it right when he said that surgery is the very LAST option I would agree to.

Did that aflutop not help out at all? Maybe you need another round of it with a more aggressive dosing protocol.

I really, really hate this for you Chris. I know your love of training and this just blows. It would drive me to the point of total insanity to be told that I couldn't train for X amount of time.

Take care of that shoulder. Slather on the Emu Oil before and after your training sessions. And consider another round of aflutop.

That's Dr. Thunder's diagnosis and prognosis. :hammer:
 
My shoulder has been off since I injured over 2 years ago. For the most part I can work around it dibilitates my chest development more than my actual shoulder development. I am also not able to do back squats (heavy ones) so I do front. It looks like I will never see really big weight again in bench press or any chest exercise. I can still do ok in shoulder exercises but not my big lifts I used to do. It not only hurts but it's quite weak at the point of injury...
 
Not knowing what the diagnosis is or what the doctors are seeing, I will hold off on making my recommendation for treatment in the future. I will say I share Thunder's sentiment completely; especially considering that I am facing the possibility of surgery just like Chris is. That said, I was told repeatedly by two surgeons my shoulders needed to be operated on or I would never lose the tendon/rotator cuff pain that existed in both. They were both wrong, period. I had to be patient, develop strength in the small accessory muscles in the joint over a long time, almost 3 years actually, before I could some serious shoulder work to build them up. In Chris's case that may not be an option and I assume with his knowledge of the body, he has tried everything to this point. As hard as it is to admit, sometimes one cannot deny that we are fallible and have to give in to getting what is necessary to fix a problem.
 
not sure that Kleen got that Alfutop in yet... last I checked it was still not there...
 
Kleen I will say this only because I have not ran into any injuries my friend but we only get one body in this lifetime! Make it count. . if you need surgery so be it. . take the time off. . and set the pride aside my friend! I know its something that we all have to do. . .but in the end its for the best my friend :22:
 
Kleen, you ever thought of using some deca, or would that even help?

Second, are you using Ghen for your PCT as well? If not, I found it's been really helpful to my past PCT's regarding maintaining mass.
 
Day 11 PCT

I will start with an update then move to the response regarding my shoulder.

I woke up this morning already looking much leaner than yesterday. I weighed myself just to see since I was soo much leaner or should I say drier. I was 207 and some change. So I flushed about 2 lbs of water yesterday. From looking at me right now I will say that I am definitely going to be looking pretty nice in the 200-205 range and very good once I get under 200. At this point it would be too early to tell but I think if I don't lose muscle I could realistically see 7% somewhere around 199-201.

My wife not being at work continues to plague my morning workouts. We had 2 alarms always on before. One at 3:50AM for going to the gym and one for 6:00AM incase we didn't go. Well in an effort not to wake the wife up I had been turning off the second one. Somehow I set the second one last night instead of the first and missed my workout completely. I packed up my gym bag and have it ready, I know it is going to be crazy busy at the gym but I need to get my dead lifts in today on top of the rest of this pull workout. Since I didn't ever get squats in on Sunday, Wifey had me busy ALL DAY so now I need to hit the deads so my legs get some stimulation. I am not worried about making up the squats but I don't want to go any longer without stimulating my legs somewhat.

Tonight I will gradually work up on my deads. I already know I can hit 315 with out any shoulder pain so that will be the first actual working set. I am not going to do the slow negatives today as I am gearing up to see if I can do a max next week for the contest. Don't worry gentlemen, if there is any issue with soreness increasing or worse yet, pain during the lift I will be cutting out Deads for a while too but if they are one of the pulling exercises I can do without pain I am going to capitalize on them.

Now for the Shoulder talk...

Thanks everyone! I am not disregarding your opinions or concerns on this matter at all. However, I am going to do what I do as long as I can feel it isn't getting worse. As I said I have learned what aggravates it, and can avoid that plane of motion relatively easily. It is not a tendon or bone pain though this is torn / worn cartilage. I know in my heart this is what it is. I have been through so many injuries and this is a very distinct feeling. I can feel it EXACTLY like when they had to repair the cartilage last time.

John, it isn't that tendon you mentioned, it is where the pulling/rowing leverages the end of my humorous bone so that it goes up into the shoulder socket pushing on the worn area that causes the pain during rows originating from below the shoulders since it is on the upper rear of the join't it is just the way it gets moved in the joint that places it against that area. It does not hit that spot doing High Rows though... Interesting eh...
When it goes across that spot it becomes painful and you can sometimes hear it grind. However it is hard to find that spot just moving it around without some resistance. I am trying to get a little more PTO on the books so I can schedule my MRI. My wife having surgery used up a portion taking time off for Dr apps and her first day home all that good stuff.

My biggest issue is that I have 100% coverage on insurance right now but if I wait until after the new year I won't. That is a difference of thousands of dollars out of pocket. I unfortunately don't have the luxury to ignore that difference or to put this off if I know it will be required.

All of that being said... just how long do you think that surgery will keep me down? I can tell you, NOT LONG AT ALL!!! I will go on a cut and do cardio starting the next week when I can go back to work. Then I will go on a leg blast with only machines while allowing my entire upper body to heal from this trouble it has gone through for the past few years. Some of my tendons will get a chance to heal for about 6 weeks, and then have a break in period for my tendons. I am with all of you in praying I am wrong, 85% surety is just me going on what I feel and have felt before. As soon as I can get to the doctor for the MRI I will update you guys on that.
 
GMG760 said:
Kleen, you ever thought of using some deca, or would that even help?

Second, are you using Ghen for your PCT as well? If not, I found it's been really helpful to my past PCT's regarding maintaining mass.
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I had a friend who had a severe case of Deca D*ck and it kind of frightened me away from that compound. Took him like 6-8 months to recover. However it might help. I was looking at Anavar or Equipoise though for the same reasons.

As a matter of fact Anavar was probably going to be part of my recovery plan. It really is a shame that stuff can't be prescribed for that purpose when everyone who knows anything about those 3 knows they help with soft tissue repairs.

As far as Ghen, Oh HELL YES! It is a staple. As is IGH-1 I take only during the week. Works really well with the UD2 diet having 2.5 days of carb mania is the perfect time to get my 2 days a week off. It is such a staple somehow I forgot to mention I was running it. You can assume if I am breathing i am running my GH stuff on a 5/2 dosing schedule. I didn't even think about the fact that may be part of the amazing success I am having so far in PCT. i bet it is definitely helping out. Probably keeping my shoulder pretty intact too.
 
Damn Kleen..Shoulder problem again, damn! Sorry to hear this, we all know how much you put into this..Do what you need to do...

On another note, you must be lookin awesome at 207 at 6-7% still?
 
Yea, Deca will cause that... which is why you run Test with it. :twisted:

I'm not saying to do or not do anything... just throwing it out there.
 
Day 11 Dead Lift Heaven

Okay guys not going to go crazy with update since I did that earlier.
Here is the pull workout from today. Went rather well and leaving the lower rows out kept my shoulder in pristine condition through out. Strength surprised me today.


Pull Tempo 3-0-1 on all but dead lifts. Weight is per side.
HS High Row - 90x5, 135x5, 145x5, 145x5, 155x5, 165x5 did an extra set because an old friend cooled me down about 4 minutes to chat and I felt fresh enough for another go at it and kind just wanted the 3 plates and a quarter on there. ;)

Normal Tempo for Deadlifts.
Dead Lifts - 135x8, 225x8, 315x8, 365x5, 415x3 all done with only gloves on to protect my purdy hands. LOL I should have only done 6 on the 315 set and I may have gone up to 425. O now I could have gotten 5 on 415 with raps. I wasn't having a problem lifting the weight but holding on to it on the 415 set was a bitch! Considering I have done NO GRIP WORK in a very long time from my tendinitis. I have been using wraps on every pulling lift for about 6 months now. So knowing that and that I haven't been dead lifting for a while this is DAMN good stuff for me. I am definitely impressed with this lift.

Back to 3-0-1 tempo for last to lifts
Icaarian Curl machine 112.5x5, 112.5x5, 112.5x5, 112.5x4, 112.5x3 - This is the one like if a preacher curl held your elbows straight out in front of you, it really forces you to elongate the biceps if you go all the way down. Nice machine.

HS Shrugs, 135x5, 135x5, 180x5, 205x5, 230x5 - the weight is per side. On the last to sets I had put a 25 on the handles on the other side to add weight, so I had 2 25s on each handle when finally done. I did use wraps on the last set only. My traps were not done but my grip was.


FlexW99 said:
Damn Kleen..Shoulder problem again, damn! Sorry to hear this, we all know how much you put into this..Do what you need to do...

On another note, you must be lookin awesome at 207 at 6-7% still?
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Man I know I said I will have to have surgery and I am still pretty sure I will need it but I have so many options to work around here. I am not going to lose any of this unless I give up on myself. My form has never been better I have figured out exactly how to be explosive and controlled at the same time, always securing my joints in a safe position before beginning the lift or rep. Like I said I wont drag it out. My doctor will tell me point blank. He is the head of Sports Medicine and Orthopedics, and is all business. He is the one that told me to suck it up and push through the pain if I wanted a better range of motion a few years ago. Yes those were his exact words. I went in complaining of pain and limited range of motion and he said you have 85% if not 90% range of motion that is a success. I told him not what for a guy who grapples it isn't so he said. Well in that case suck it up and push through the pain. Break up the scar tissue and you will get a better range of motion it is all in how bad you want that ROM. Well that was all I needed to hear it was go time.

Yeah man I am big as a house and looking pretty good. I am not 6-7 % now though, more like 9% like in the beginning of this run. However I think I can hit 6-7% between 199-201 if I play my cards right.
 
nice lift man,

and thanks for popping over and giving that dude some help at IM

Looks great for someone who broke his back just reassures you that anything is possible :) as you will overcome yours
 
MrKleen73 said:
I had a friend who had a severe case of Deca D*ck and it kind of frightened me away from that compound. Took him like 6-8 months to recover. However it might help. I was looking at Anavar or Equipoise though for the same reasons.

As a matter of fact Anavar was probably going to be part of my recovery plan. It really is a shame that stuff can't be prescribed for that purpose when everyone who knows anything about those 3 knows they help with soft tissue repairs.

As far as Ghen, Oh HELL YES! It is a staple. As is IGH-1 I take only during the week. Works really well with the UD2 diet having 2.5 days of carb mania is the perfect time to get my 2 days a week off. It is such a staple somehow I forgot to mention I was running it. You can assume if I am breathing i am running my GH stuff on a 5/2 dosing schedule. I didn't even think about the fact that may be part of the amazing success I am having so far in PCT. i bet it is definitely helping out. Probably keeping my shoulder pretty intact too.
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while I only plan on using over the counters last year I used 14ad, a prohormone to equipoise and it really helped my joints I feel , due to the fact it converts to estrogen.if you have joint challenges non- aromatizating ones are generally a no no.

Dymeth most likely isn't a joint friendly compound since it does not convert to estrogen. the only otc I know of is m14add which has this effect (never done it myself though) on paper it would appear to help the joints

also remember your in pct. I still stand by my theory I posted in the other thread that in pct while hormone levels( test and estrogen are low and raising) and if you train like a complete maniac your going to experience joint issues. That is why I take 2 weeks off after then when I do come back maybe after 3 weeks I stay in the 10-12 rep range generally for a month. take another week off then lower the reps after blood work conforms my test is int he mid to higher ranges(500 or higher)

on a side note ai's are a no no as well with people with severe injuries like we have had, although 6-oxo and maybe form may not be that bad. stuff like atd crushes estrogen , even lower dosed, and estrogen is actually beneficial, esp for us with injuries, joint challenges.
 
subbed bud... damn 9 days late and I already got 4 pages of reading to do.
 
MrKleen73 said:
I had a friend who had a severe case of Deca D*ck and it kind of frightened me away from that compound. Took him like 6-8 months to recover. However it might help. I was looking at Anavar or Equipoise though for the same reasons.
Click to expand...

As GMG already stated, Deca is no problem IF you run Test with it. As for myself, I won't run any compound again without a Test base. It matters that much,
But of all those options you just listed, I advise you to go with the Anavar. It's tabs, so your wife shouldn't have a big problem with it (no pinning). Tell her it's a natty joint rehab med. LOL

Seriously though, I know you won't lie to her and I DON'T recommend that you do. But some Var would really help you through this thingy. 100 mgs. daily.

Consider.......
 
edwitt said:
nice lift man,

and thanks for popping over and giving that dude some help at IM

Looks great for someone who broke his back just reassures you that anything is possible :) as you will overcome yours
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Yeah he looks good and is leaner than he is giving himself credit for. Unless he has a camel hump of fat on his back he is not over 10% or carries a lot of fat on his legs. Thanks for the vote of confidence.

John Smeton said:
while I only plan on using over the counters last year I used 14ad, a prohormone to equipoise and it really helped my joints I feel , due to the fact it converts to estrogen.if you have joint challenges non- aromatizating ones are generally a no no.

Dymeth most likely isn't a joint friendly compound since it does not convert to estrogen. the only otc I know of is m14add which has this effect (never done it myself though) on paper it would appear to help the joints

also remember your in pct. I still stand by my theory I posted in the other thread that in pct while hormone levels( test and estrogen are low and raising) and if you train like a complete maniac your going to experience joint issues. That is why I take 2 weeks off after then when I do come back maybe after 3 weeks I stay in the 10-12 rep range generally for a month. take another week off then lower the reps after blood work conforms my test is int he mid to higher ranges(500 or higher)

on a side note ai's are a no no as well with people with severe injuries like we have had, although 6-oxo and maybe form may not be that bad. stuff like atd crushes estrogen , even lower dosed, and estrogen is actually beneficial, esp for us with injuries, joint challenges.
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So would that be the same as say Eq-Plex which is the same as BOLD, or is that a different compound still legal to buy?

JudoJosh said:
subbed bud... damn 9 days late and I already got 4 pages of reading to do.
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Yes but it is all enjoyable reading.
thundergod said:
As GMG already stated, Deca is no problem IF you run Test with it. As for myself, I won't run any compound again without a Test base. It matters that much,
But of all those options you just listed, I advise you to go with the Anavar. It's tabs, so your wife shouldn't have a big problem with it (no pinning). Tell her it's a natty joint rehab med. LOL

Seriously though, I know you won't lie to her and I DON'T recommend that you do. But some Var would really help you through this thingy. 100 mgs. daily.

Consider.......
Click to expand...
Oh I am completely considering this. I was going to try to hold off on illegal AAS but the SERM I am using isn't "legal" for human consumption and my Alflutop when it does get here is in that same category so yeah, I am pretty much just about to do it. Money is the only obstacle at the moment.

punthra said:
Heal up buddy!!!!
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Thanks and will do.

Man I have to say I am SO happy I have absolutely no residual or day after soreness in my shoulder. The deads did not have ANY effect on it at all. I may be okay not doing the rows for a while and MAYBE it will heal up. I am about 85% sold on going with the Var right now to get my shoulder back in the game. If I do between Var and Alflutop maybe I have a chance at self mending. Gotta go call a doctor about getting some blood work.
 
Blood work scheduled for tomorrow!

Okay guys whether or not I choose to go with TRT or not I am getting my blood tested tomorrow. I unfortunately have to go to the Dr for an office visit to get the paperwork before going to the lab but whatever it is insurances dime. So I should be good to go to get on TRT if I choose to go the Anavar route, or for that matter just choose to go on TRT I will have the option. I am sure my test hasn't raised up so much that it will disqualify me.
 
MrKleen73 said:
Okay guys whether or not I choose to go with TRT or not I am getting my blood tested tomorrow. I unfortunately have to go to the Dr for an office visit to get the paperwork before going to the lab but whatever it is insurances dime. So I should be good to go to get on TRT if I choose to go the Anavar route, or for that matter just choose to go on TRT I will have the option. I am sure my test hasn't raised up so much that it will disqualify me.
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you are going to raise flags...
 
MrKleen73 said:
So would that be the same as say Eq-Plex which is the same as BOLD, or is that a different compound still legal to buy?
.
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that is the same as eq-plex or bold 200. unfortunately it was banned beginning of of this and carries the same consequences as real gear. This is just my personal opinion I advise any one to follow the law and not buy illegal stuff in the us, even if we don't agree with the laws and know it can be used responsibly.

I mean look at the over the counter steroids that are legal to use and some like superdrol, dymeth,epi, really any methylated compounds carry much much greater health risks than testosterone. regardless personally I stay within the laws and I cant make decisions for people, I can recommend stay within the country's laws though, This is how I feel at the time. are over the counters ideal =no, are they worth the peace of mind =yes

if one lived close to Mexico I hear stories of guys living 20 minutes away and going back and forth and buying their stuff and using it in Mexico then coming back.

Chris when you get the chance I posted a video in my log of my progress. and would like your opinion/expertise on my conditioning coming into the show.

your blood work probably is going to be low , so if you already have done it , it is normal to be lower ranges, mid, if your a fast recoverer;however you only did a four weeker so it will bounce back faster than someone that did say a six weeker.

it is usually best to get blood work 2-4 weeks after pct had ended . really its best to get it before, during and after to monitor everything, at the least though 2-4 after pct has ended to make sure everything is within "normal" ranges
 
John,

Yeah I am expecting it to be low. This is more of a "workaround" for a legal option for PCT and what not. If low I am going to see what the options are for TRT. That way when I do use one of these legal OTC compounds like a DMZ I don't have to do anything hinky to get a pct it will be unneeded, and i won't lose any of the gains because test will never dip. Would also make some of the non aromatizing compounds easier on me with a test base of 100 mg of cyp weekly.

As far as flags that MrBig mentioned. I actually assume I am one big flag. Big muscular dude looking for legal testosterone. FLAG DING DING DING!!!! However I think that should also work to my advantage. I can tell them I did a cycle of Superdrol or whatever about a year ago and haven't really felt right since. Give the laundry list of known low test symptoms and see what happens. I figure if the tests come out low on test like we all should expect being only 12 days into pct that if my doctor is too square to do it I can give the test to a doctor who will. If not that get an online prescription with the test results. I probably wouldn't try to have insurance pay for it, just give me the script and I will treat it as a supplement. ;)
 
MrKleen73 said:
John,

Yeah I am expecting it to be low. This is more of a "workaround" for a legal option for PCT and what not. If low I am going to see what the options are for TRT. That way when I do use one of these legal OTC compounds like a DMZ I don't have to do anything hinky to get a pct it will be unneeded, and i won't lose any of the gains because test will never dip. Would also make some of the non aromatizing compounds easier on me with a test base of 100 mg of cyp weekly.

As far as flags that MrBig mentioned. I actually assume I am one big flag. Big muscular dude looking for legal testosterone. FLAG DING DING DING!!!! However I think that should also work to my advantage. I can tell them I did a cycle of Superdrol or whatever about a year ago and haven't really felt right since. Give the laundry list of known low test symptoms and see what happens. I figure if the tests come out low on test like we all should expect being only 12 days into pct that if my doctor is too square to do it I can give the test to a doctor who will. If not that get an online prescription with the test results. I probably wouldn't try to have insurance pay for it, just give me the script and I will treat it as a supplement. ;)
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This is the exact method I plan to use when I am in my 30s and test production starts to really drop. Personally, you can go to a myriad of "legit" anti-aging clinics that can prescribe you TRT and insurance will pay for it. I see this as not only smart but the responsible way to go about it. Buy it from some dude on the black market or get it injected safely one time a week by a trained professional. Sure it is not the most honest way to get it if you truly do not have very low test but I really don't care; I didn't make one of the safest compounds illegal and leave products like Superdrol on the market, lawmakers did, so you better believe I am going to milk the system to my advantage. Kleen, I like what you are doing and support you 100%.

If getting TRT and running Anavar helps your shoulder heal, that is going to be way cheaper for you and your insurance company in the long run. Surgery like that will cost them a fortune whereas vials of test is not that expensive even over a long period of time.
 
MrBigPR said:
you are going to raise flags...
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This may be the case but in my experience most doctors are so ignorant they don't have a clue; mine thought my continued use of creatine was possibly risky to my health (I no longer see her thank you!). You find me a really learned doctor who knows about supplements and steroids and better yet, actually looks the part. Most doctors are overweight, out of shape and overworked; there goal is to treat you and move on not ask a bunch of questions because they see a big guy in their office with low test. Not trying to pick a fight big guy, I just don't see this being as big an issue as we think it could be in the worst possible situation, that being someone actually asks some questions.
 
oufinny said:
This is the exact method I plan to use when I am in my 30s and test production starts to really drop. Personally, you can go to a myriad of "legit" anti-aging clinics that can prescribe you TRT and insurance will pay for it. I see this as not only smart but the responsible way to go about it. Buy it from some dude on the black market or get it injected safely one time a week by a trained professional. Sure it is not the most honest way to get it if you truly do not have very low test but I really don't care; I didn't make one of the safest compounds illegal and leave products like Superdrol on the market, lawmakers did, so you better believe I am going to milk the system to my advantage. Kleen, I like what you are doing and support you 100%.

If getting TRT and running Anavar helps your shoulder heal, that is going to be way cheaper for you and your insurance company in the long run. Surgery like that will cost them a fortune whereas vials of test is not that expensive even over a long period of time.
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I may very well go that route with the anti-aging clinics. I didn't realize they were local ones. Never crossed my mind. I didn find some on line who don't even recommend gel or patches they go straight to cyp. Said the patches and gels were only if you were really afraid of needles or something.
 
I used to intern at a TRT clinic, I've seen it all. I've even spoken with several insurance companies so I know the low down. your stereotypical "doctor" image made me lol. I've been spoiled working around such intelligent and fit individuals.
 
MrBigPR said:
I used to intern at a TRT clinic, I've seen it all. I've even spoken with several insurance companies so I know the low down. your stereotypical "doctor" image made me lol. I've been spoiled working around such intelligent and fit individuals.
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Where's the like button on this darn site? I'd say they're not half as clueless as they seem. And if my cohort is representative of the future, things are going to change for the better. I will admit I know more about AAS and hormones than some endo's, but there are very competent docs out there. You just have to find them.
 
I truly think that some doctors are starting to come around in realizing the healthful benefits of a normal testosterone level in men with low levels whether due to age or other factors.

Those "Low T" commercials are a step in the right direction. More and more men are running to their doctors now for this fountain of youth.

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Most of the testosterone in a man’s body is produced in the testicles. It helps a man maintain:
Sex drive and sexual function
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Mood and energy
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if it’s below 300 ng/dL. Isitlowt.com can be caused by a signaling problem that occurs between the brain and the testicles that causes the production of testosterone to drop below normal. The brain may also signal the testicles to cut testosterone production if it feels the body has too much testosterone. Isitlowt.com also can occur when your testicles can’t make normal levels of testosterone. Isitlowt.com is a medical condition that can lead to fatigue or low energy, decreased sexual function, and depressed mood.

Invalid Link Removed affects more than 13 million men in the U.S. over the age of 45. Even though it’s natural for men to lose testosterone as they age, the medical condition hypogonadism (hî-põ-gõ-na-dizm), also known as Low T, is not a natural part of aging. Typically, there is no cure for Low T. It is a medical condition that may require ongoing treatment.

The good news is, Isitlowt.com can be easily diagnosed by your doctor with a simple blood test and treated with testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) to bring your T levels back to normal.

Signs and symptoms of Low T may be clear and easy to recognize. But at first look, you may not think they point to Low T.

Take a look at the symptoms below to see if any apply to you. You may be surprised how easily they can be overlooked.

Signs and symptoms of Low T may include:
Fatigue or loss of energy
Low sex drive (reduced desire to be intimate)
Sexual dysfunction (weak erections, failure to get erections)
Depressed mood
Decreased sense of well-being
Increased body fat
Loss of muscle mass
Decreased bone strength

These symptoms may be a sign of Low T or other health conditions and should not be ignored. Isitlowt.com can be diagnosed by your doctor with a simple blood test.

Normally, a man’s testosterone level is considered low if it’s below 300 ng/dL. It’s important to keep your testosterone at a normal level for your age. The right treatment can bring your T levels back to normal and keep them there. And once you get back the T you’ve been missing, you may experience lasting symptom relief.

Take the Low T Symptoms Quiz to find out if you are at risk based on your symptoms.

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Your insurance should pay no reason why you should have to that's what insurance is for you pay enough already and as far as ins company is concerned a 10ml vial of test cyp is 1/3 of the price of androderm patches

I wil send u a link to a very informative thread on the.subject right here at AM

Mine tried not to bit I had my doctor write aetter confirming that TRT was .necessary and they had no choice, it took a.couple of weeks and a few.phone.calls but well worthwhile now **** just gets mailed to.me via wallgreens mail in prescription service :)
 
Cool big got me a lil nervous. Said they could run stuff on my blood to see if I had a serm or anything in my system and that my lh levels were going to be off.
Compared to my test levels.
 
Which made sense as far as the lh sine the serm. I had already thought about it. Dang blackberry entered before I was done. We will see what they say since I am here. Watch my levels already be over 300.
 
MrKleen73 said:
Cool big got me a lil nervous. Said they could run stuff on my blood to see if I had a serm or anything in my system and that my lh levels were going to be off.
Compared to my test levels.
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Sure they could, who is paying for a test like that? Lab work cannot be done on you without consent above and beyond what is prescribed in the written lab order. More often then not additional blood would have to be drawn ANYWAYS to do additional testing where you would be able to deny consent protecting yourself should it come to that.

There is one thing that is not being mentioned that I think really needs to: the patient is in control of what he/she chooses to have done. This is not a situation where going against doctors orders is going to get you in trouble with your insurance, i.e. you have to pay because you didn't stay the minimum after surgery as an example. Moreover, Chris can just go to a different doctor if he needs to or as mentioned before, a sympathetic anti-aging clinic that will get his TRT prescribed without issue (and covered by insurance), which in Houston there are A LOT to choose from.
 
True but if u deny you look like an ass hole. test can be over 300 easily byday 7 of clomid...LH will still be in the sheiter.

fin is there something you dont like about me? please contact me in PM if there is a problem. I'm only trying to help a friend based on the experience I have. everything isn't perfect as u may think...you can run the same blood without taking more.
 
I love this thread. . sooo many different variables that are going on. . . muhaha. . . Here is my two cents. . .Everything is good for you in moderation. .. if one can practice moderate use of testosterone to help encompass a better life and find more fufillment that so be it. . . .But the fact of the matter is that there tends to be a switch in the mind that starts to abuse some of the amenities that are so wonderful! Kleen, i'm not here to say that you will be one of those men. . .but is 1g of test really needed to help ensure a better lifestyle. . .NO. . .haha but would doses of 400-600 be better with great str and size gains yes. . .there needs to be a happy balance because most perscription dosages are around 250 which people than up to that 4-600 range and or as high as 750. . . hmmmmm all things to think about ya dig! :22:
 
May main concern is after you have been on TRT for a long time isn't it hard to get normal levels back to the way they were thus making you dependant on TRT. If you have a good HPTA and you run a designer, get tested when artificially low then go on TRT don't you become reliant on TRT from then on.

That's what gives me pause, I have a great HPTA and don't feel I have reached the point that I need that kind of help on a permenant basis...
 
MrBigPR said:
True but if u deny you look like an ass hole. test can be over 300 easily byday 7 of clomid...LH will still be in the sheiter.

fin is there something you dont like about me? please contact me in PM if there is a problem. I'm only trying to help a friend based on the experience I have. everything isn't perfect as u may think...you can run the same blood without taking more.
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Not at all, I am simply presenting my alternate point on view on the matter. I too worked in a hospital for a while and though I am not a doctor or nurse, we still had to sit through some of the same training they did so I feel I have a small, I stress SMALL, amount more knowledge than the average person. That and growing up with an ICU nurse for a mother tends to help as well though AAS/DS and TRT were not a common subject at the dinner table.

My point is simply to state that I don't believe people in the medical field aren't going to read too much into lab results if they are borderline questionable. Now if that happens again and again, you are totally right PR; questions are definitely going to be asked and answered will need to be given before any further treatment can move forward.
 
MrBigPR said:
fin is there something you dont like about me? please contact me in PM if there is a problem.
Click to expand...

oufinny said:
Not at all, I am simply presenting my alternate point on view on the matter. , you are totally right PR; questions are definitely going to be asked and answered will need to be given before any further treatment can move forward.
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We are all mature enough to be able to agree to disagree on certain subjects. Diversity and varying opinions are what makes it all so intriguing to study.

"Blessed are the peacemakers. For they shall be called the children of God."

Just trying to be a peacemaker here. :box:
 
we're cool, just wanted to make sure. I'm just looking out for my brothers in Iron. I don't care about being "right" because there are too many variables but you have to go into a situation like this with all areas covered.
 
MrBigPR said:
we're cool, just wanted to make sure. I'm just looking out for my brothers in Iron. I don't care about being "right" because there are too many variables but you have to go into a situation like this with all areas covered.
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You make a good point and many of us need to know that there is the possibility of questions being raised etc... We all agree that any opportunity to learn from is worth discussing for everyone's benefit.
 
I was denied TRT 3 years ago because I didn't know how to "cheat" the system. my doc was smart and ran all panels...he reported me to my insurance after seeing my cholesterol levels and I was subsequently dropped. it's taken a while to find an insurance company who would cover me after the TRT incident. be smart and listen to all the advice in here, you don't want to go through what I went through.
 
This seems as good of a log as any to pose this question. After much reading of multiple points of views and experiences, positive & negative, what seems to be the general consensus on DAA? In particular, NP's bulk DAA powder.
 
VolcomX311 said:
This seems as good of a log as any to pose this question. After much reading of multiple points of views and experiences, positive & negative, what seems to be the general consensus on DAA? In particular, NP's bulk DAA powder.
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Of course, Patrick Arnold is going to say that his "special" brand is better, but I'm sure that the NP bulk is good stuff.
That stuff with some ERASE would make a nice natty run.
 
DreamWeaver said:
May main concern is after you have been on TRT for a long time isn't it hard to get normal levels back to the way they were thus making you dependant on TRT. If you have a good HPTA and you run a designer, get tested when artificially low then go on TRT don't you become reliant on TRT from then on.

That's what gives me pause, I have a great HPTA and don't feel I have reached the point that I need that kind of help on a permenant basis...
Click to expand...

Yes the longer one is on any synthetic hormone the longer it takes the HTPA to restart. some guys stay on for years and are never be the same again as far as natural testosterone. in other words staying on can mess testosterone production up for life, so a person must stay on for life or if ever taken off, you'll have low testosterone levels a long time, maybe even the rest of your life.

taking something for 4-8 weeks is a big enough risk, however taking 3-7 months or longer between cycles generally gives the body optimal time to repair itself from the damage done

thundergod said:
Of course, Patrick Arnold is going to say that his "special" brand is better, but I'm sure that the NP bulk is good stuff.
That stuff with some ERASE would make a nice natty run.
Click to expand...

I have not seen testing with any other DAA powder then Epharms. I am not saying Np's and others are bad, I just know Patrick uses the exact ingredients and dosing that the Italian study was done on (which is a prescription drug in Italian and not OTC) Patrick Brought DAA to the market, along with geranium, phenibut, and most like all the otc "prohormones" out now. I have always payed more for a product I have done the research on. If someone does have lab results on Nps DAA please post it, I would like to save money.
 
We have to have each bulk tested in order to sell and DAA is no exception. It's the law, if we didn't we wouldn't be selling bulks. Our DAA is official. The difference in Testforce and ours is the salt used. Test force mixes better due to the calcium.
 
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