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The one, The only....THE ONE!

CrownRoyal said:
An reps, my PCT consists of 2nd Gear/IGF-2/Drive .. this couldn't cause a gyno flare up could it? Just because I believe on Dirk's interview he stated that an overkill of PCT could actually cause negative sides, i.e. gyno..
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no, by overkill what he was talking about is like using nolvadex + clomid, ATD, 2 different test boosters, etc.
 
OzzY SluGGa said:
Does it make a diff if its your first cycle?
This sux ass for you kiwi, Reckon your def doing the right thing by not trying to power through. Knock it straight on the head. This came out of no where man. GAY.:rant:
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Ya man this sucks sorry bro...it sounded like it was going great an then bam out of nowhere sh!# gets fked up.. Let us know how the PCT goes>>>:rant:
 
Liftergym33 said:
Are you guys ruling out, that The One can cause Gyno
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I am about 99.9% sure that it does not cause gyno- I am 99.999% sure that it has something to do with stopping the ATD (this will cause a surge in rebound estro- has happened to a bunch of people), and using bulk nettle (can also cause gyno and allow for surging estro levels) before beginning the cycle

the pharmacology does not lend itself to a conversion to estrogen, or any type of progestin-like activity
 
cloc said:
I have never had a problem getting rid of my gyno flare ups while on cycle with ATD or Torem. i actully get more gyno flare ups after pct than any other time from estro rebound. After you get gyno under control are you goin to start cycle back up or are you just done with this one?
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the gyno flare-ups are from stopping the ATD- he is having the same issue you were having.....estro rebound- it is not b/c of The One- it does not aromatize
 
if i were in your situation i would just use the nolva and continue cycle i say nolva so your only blockin estro at receptor site and not lowering the actual level because as you know estrogen is important for gaining muscle and i would suggest a dose of 40mg nolva until pain is gone and size has gone done then tapper dose down this is just MHO
 
cloc said:
if i were in your situation i would just use the nolva and continue cycle i say nolva so your only blockin estro at receptor site and not lowering the actual level because as you know estrogen is important for gaining muscle and i would suggest a dose of 40mg nolva until pain is gone and size has gone done then tapper dose down this is just MHO
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there you go- best advice I have heard in this thread- nolva for 10 days will make it dissappear
 
My nips are feeling a bit tender...sh1t...Let us know what happens bud
 
So it was something else you were taking Craig? Huh? This ATD or something. Jesus, why does this sh1t have to be so complex? Cant people just take the reccomended dose on bottle, nothing else. Then use 2nd gear and a natty, nothing else. What is this ATD and bulk nettle now??

Man, I gottta go study biology or something, this is getting to complex for my dumb ass. Its frustrating as hell.
PS Sorry if I sound frustrated...but jesus it just gets more and more complex, run this for X amount of days, then some of that, then some of this, If such and such happens add this too.....ARGHHH, I was just gonna do what the bottle says and trust it wouldnt hurt me. Now it appears i gotta have all these other things on hand "just in case"

Mostly I am just annoyed(at myself) that you more and more need some kind of UNI degree to understand WTF people are talking bout.
 
rms80 said:
the gyno flare-ups are from stopping the ATD- he is having the same issue you were having.....estro rebound- it is not b/c of The One- it does not aromatize
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So what is a person suppose to do about the ATD...? Just stay on forever... I'm taking hyperdrol right now, and your making not want to stop taking it....

And I was under the impression that even though a compound does not aromatize, the elevated test levels can cause a higher than warranted estro incease...?
 
cloc said:
if i were in your situation i would just use the nolva and continue cycle i say nolva so your only blockin estro at receptor site and not lowering the actual level because as you know estrogen is important for gaining muscle and i would suggest a dose of 40mg nolva until pain is gone and size has gone done then tapper dose down this is just MHO
Click to expand...

This is a valid point. The ATD and bulk nettle certainly didn't help, I had a bad feeling about the ATD from the start. Ozzy, I ran ATD before this cycle. I ran a low dose of it (25mgs) but obviously that will enough when I then went onto THe One to mess me up slightly. I may actually keep this cycle going as rms has kindly emailed me suggesting various things. Looks like nolva + The One might actually help here. It's the pct after this i dont know about now..suggestions?
 
OzzY SluGGa said:
So it was something else you were taking Craig? Huh? This ATD or something. Jesus, why does this sh1t have to be so complex? Cant people just take the reccomended dose on bottle, nothing else. Then use 2nd gear and a natty, nothing else. What is this ATD and bulk nettle now??...
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The ATD and nettle root were what Craig were using in the 4 weeks prior to starting The ONE, Zac. And it's not that complex once you start to understand it.


Craigmatthew said:
...I may actually keep this cycle going as rms has kindly emailed me suggesting various things. Looks like nolva + The One might actually help here. It's the pct after this i dont know about now..suggestions?
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If you need any more help e-mailing either Dirk or me would work. We will make sure you're ok :)
 
ATD is just an AI in many OTC pct products IMHO AIs should be tapperd down for a longer period of time so for your 5th and 6th week of pct use the lowest dose of what ever your taking every other day instead of just finishing at week 4
 
Gotta agree with Ozzy sometimes stuff is hard to understand.. So the question is what is ATD? Don't wanna sound dumb but No question should be a dumb one right? When you are trying your hardest to learn how to be the most physically strong healthy person out there. Lifting an being a gym rat has become a PASSION to me and I want to learn it inside and out..... :18: My wife likes that too. LOL.....
 
Craigmatthew said:
I'm sure you already know the answer to this ;)
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Naw sorry bro i dont but im thinkin that maybe your getting some kind of rebound from a past hormone. But honestly WTF do i know , lol. My interest is peaked about the ONE but im sure noone wants gyno so thats why i ask.

Since it is an isolated incident there must be some extraneous or underlying problem here. Maybe we can get some valuable info from your unfortunate situation. I can try to dig up a log but i thought you just finished somthing a month or so ago, i forget.
 
somewhatgifted said:
Naw sorry bro i dont but im thinkin that maybe your getting some kind of rebound from a past hormone. But honestly WTF do i know , lol. My interest is peaked about the ONE but im sure noone wants gyno so thats why i ask.

Since it is an isolated incident there must be some extraneous or underlying problem here. Maybe we can get some valuable info from your unfortunate situation. I can try to dig up a log but i thought you just finished somthing a month or so ago, i forget.
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I ran mmv2, activate xtreme and ATD. That might be the problem, and as dirk said, We are thinking the ATD is the main culprit.

I have run mv2 before with hdrol with no problems.
 
well he said he was taking atd before starting the cycle which is most likely the cause of this gyno flare up but there is always a chance that the One in some way can cause gyno i mean it is a new product and real world results can outweigh science in some cases as of right now though id say its rebound unless some more people start reporting flare ups on the one then it will be clear that it was just his pre cycle hormone levels
 
Craigmatthew said:
I ran mmv2, activate xtreme and ATD. That might be the problem, and as dirk said, We are thinking the ATD is the main culprit.

I have run mv2 before with hdrol with no problems.
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That seems very likely since approx 3 users with existing gyno report it going away thus far. Either way it will be good to know for future users, good work craig and good luck chasing those lumps away.
 
The ONE [Day FIFTEEN]

Blood Pressure:
Heart Rate:
Weight:

The ONE [SHOULDERS and ABS]

DB Military Press:10x12/35x5/35x6 my spotter totally wrecked the lift and re-inflamed my already sore shoulder.
Lateral Raises:6x12/10x12/10x10 (painful)
Posterior Cable Pulls:8x8/8x8/8x8 (painful)

Medicine Ball Crunches:6kgx15/6kgx15/6kgx15
Lower Leg Raises:15/17/15
Cable Rope Ab Pulldowns:72x12/72x15/72x15

Diet:Lots of protein
Training:Not bad, obviously a bit distracted
Body composition and Look:Good, full still.
Muscle Hardness: Up
Vascularity:Normal
Strength:Normal
Speed:N/A
Co-ordination:N/A
Quality of Training:Ok, not great
Mood/Aggression:Bit down.
Libido: Up
Joints:Little bit of pain.
Overall Sense of Feeling:Want to get this lump fixed :(
Notes:meh... life will go on..

The ONE [DIET]

08:00
1 cups oats with milk (200calories)
Protein Shake (300 calories) 8g cho's/40g protein/9g fat

Cycle Assist (1serve)
1g vitamin c
joint support
b5
Orange Triad
EFA (1serve)

11:00
4 scoops LG BC+Eaa (minimal calories) 5g bcaa/5g eaa/2.5g glutamine
Beef Stew (400calories)
Banana (86calories) 21g cho's/1g protein/0.27g fat

13:00
220g Cream Rice (238calories) 42.5g cho's/8.2g protein/3.9g fat
Canned Chicken (150calories) 309g cho's/14.9g protein/7.5g fat

15:00
4 scoops LG BC+Eaa (minimal calories) 5g bcaa/5g eaa/2.5g glutamine
Canned Chicken (150calories) 309g cho's/14.9g protein/7.5g fat
220g Cream Rice (238calories) 42.5g cho's/8.2g protein/3.9g fat


16:30
4 scoops LG BC+Eaa (minimal calories) 5g bcaa/5g eaa/2.5g glutamine
Three capsules "THE ONE"

17:45
Cycle Assist (1serve)
1g vitamin c
b5
joint support
Mass Gainer shake PWO (450calories) 35g cho's/40g protein/?g fat
4 scoops LG BC+Eaa (minimal calories) 5g bcaa/5g eaa/2.5g glutamine
Banana (86calories) 21g cho's/1g protein/0.27g fat

19:00
Chicken Wrap (400calories)
Chocolate Rabbit (150calories)

22:00
Chicken Breast (250calories approx) 40g protein


Total Calories = 3098
Notes:not bad, touch to eat feeling down
 
Craigmatthew said:
The ONE [Day FIFTEEN]

Blood Pressure:
Heart Rate:
Weight:

The ONE [SHOULDERS and ABS]

DB Military Press:10x12/35x5/35x6 my spotter totally wrecked the lift and re-inflamed my already sore shoulder.
Lateral Raises:6x12/10x12/10x10 (painful)
Posterior Cable Pulls:8x8/8x8/8x8 (painful)

Medicine Ball Crunches:6kgx15/6kgx15/6kgx15
Lower Leg Raises:15/17/15
Cable Rope Ab Pulldowns:72x12/72x15/72x15

Diet:Lots of protein
Training:Not bad, obviously a bit distracted
Body composition and Look:Good, full still.
Muscle Hardness: Up
Vascularity:Normal
Strength:Normal
Speed:N/A
Co-ordination:N/A
Quality of Training:Ok, not great
Mood/Aggression:Bit down.
Libido: Up
Joints:Little bit of pain.
Overall Sense of Feeling:Want to get this lump fixed :(
Notes:meh... life will go on..

The ONE [DIET]

08:00
1 cups oats with milk (200calories)
Protein Shake (300 calories) 8g cho's/40g protein/9g fat

Cycle Assist (1serve)
1g vitamin c
joint support
b5
Orange Triad
EFA (1serve)

11:00
4 scoops LG BC+Eaa (minimal calories) 5g bcaa/5g eaa/2.5g glutamine
Beef Stew (400calories)
Banana (86calories) 21g cho's/1g protein/0.27g fat

13:00
220g Cream Rice (238calories) 42.5g cho's/8.2g protein/3.9g fat
Canned Chicken (150calories) 309g cho's/14.9g protein/7.5g fat

15:00
4 scoops LG BC+Eaa (minimal calories) 5g bcaa/5g eaa/2.5g glutamine
Canned Chicken (150calories) 309g cho's/14.9g protein/7.5g fat
220g Cream Rice (238calories) 42.5g cho's/8.2g protein/3.9g fat


16:30
4 scoops LG BC+Eaa (minimal calories) 5g bcaa/5g eaa/2.5g glutamine
Three capsules "THE ONE"

17:45
Cycle Assist (1serve)
1g vitamin c
b5
joint support
Mass Gainer shake PWO (450calories) 35g cho's/40g protein/?g fat
4 scoops LG BC+Eaa (minimal calories) 5g bcaa/5g eaa/2.5g glutamine
Banana (86calories) 21g cho's/1g protein/0.27g fat

19:00
Chicken Wrap (400calories)

22:00
Chicken Breast (250calories approx) 40g protein


Total Calories =
Notes:
Click to expand...

Good bro you gonna keep runnin it then?
 
Gyno [Update] #1
Nipple is still painful, and puffy, but I didn't expect one day to fix this. I'm told wait a week or two for this to go. So patience is the key..which is hard..As mentioned Dirk and Rosie have been helping me address this, and I'm going to keep dosing The One, and run my SERM along side this.

I will run another 60mgs of Nolva tonight, then 40mg's until the pain goes, then 20mg's until the end of cycle. Dirk, let me know what you think?
 
Craigmatthew said:
Gyno [Update] #1
Nipple is still painful, and puffy, but I didn't expect one day to fix this. I'm told wait a week or two for this to go. So patience is the key..which is hard..As mentioned Dirk and Rosie have been helping me address this, and I'm going to keep dosing The One, and run my SERM along side this.

I will run another 60mgs of Nolva tonight, then 40mg's until the pain goes, then 20mg's until the end of cycle. Dirk, let me know what you think?
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You answered my question.. Good luck bro keep kickin arzzz..:burnout:
 
Craigmatthew said:
Yeah, Dirk mentioned that running the One with the nolva will actually help my situation. Lets hope he's right :)
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Im glad to see this underwraps brotha, let us know man, i read what rosie said, and i can see where this is coming from, hope everyone is right, coming from those two (Rosie/Dirk) Im sure they are!:) now get swole brotha!
 
Craigmatthew said:
Yeah, Dirk mentioned that running the One with the nolva will actually help my situation. Lets hope he's right :)
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In theory The One should act like an AI, I hope he's right too :) My own experience supports this though, The One has rid me of 90% of my gyno in 2 weeks time. I have been dosing raloxifene along side TO but started that 2 weeks before TO. I was using Toremifene before that. Both ralox/tore dosed at 60mgs which should be equivalent to 40 mgs of nolva.

I've used a lot of ATD over the years and there's always a rebound. Makes me wonder if you should always serm after a strong AI cycle to block estro receptors during the rebound fase till things balance out again.

If you cant get it under control this way, start shopping for letro, that almost always completely kills gyno, wil make you feel like crap but thats better then ending up with permanent gyno. Taper up from 0.5 to 2.5mg a day, keep it at 2.5 till gyno is gone, continu for one more week, then taper down in 5-6 days. Probably you will wanna serm again after that for the obvious rebound..

Good luck man!!
 
1HP said:
If you cant get it under control this way, start shopping for letro, that almost always completely kills gyno, wil make you feel like crap but thats better then ending up with permanent gyno. Taper up from 0.5 to 2.5mg a day, keep it at 2.5 till gyno is gone, continu for one more week, then taper down in 5-6 days. Probably you will wanna serm again after that for the obvious rebound..

Good luck man!!
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That sh!t is strong stuff. I took 0.25 mg just once for the hell of it to see what happens and it made me feel pretty weird for about 1.5 days.
 
Craigmatthew said:
Gyno [Update] #1
Nipple is still painful, and puffy, but I didn't expect one day to fix this. I'm told wait a week or two for this to go. So patience is the key..which is hard..As mentioned Dirk and Rosie have been helping me address this, and I'm going to keep dosing The One, and run my SERM along side this.

I will run another 60mgs of Nolva tonight, then 40mg's until the pain goes, then 20mg's until the end of cycle. Dirk, let me know what you think?
Click to expand...

good to see these guys could help you out good luck with your cycle bro
 
Hey guys, thanks for all the tips and suggestions. Seems like the ATD + Nettle triggered this off. I'm going to stay on cycle and just run Nolva along side it until the trouble passes.

to be honest I have read SO many times about ATD causing rebound gyno..enough times that I avoided it. My friend ended up giving me a free bottle, so as mentioned, I ran it with bulk nettle at a low dose every night. Obviously combined with other products this just created the perfect environment for an estro rebound, then adding The One just added my body the ability to add more estro to the re-bound, compounding the effect. This is my theory.
 
manifesto said:
So what is a person suppose to do about the ATD...? Just stay on forever... I'm taking hyperdrol right now, and your making not want to stop taking it....

And I was under the impression that even though a compound does not aromatize, the elevated test levels can cause a higher than warranted estro incease...?
Click to expand...

Just run nolva or clo after- this is the only time I would recommend a SERM for PCT (or in this case, PCT for a PCT, LOL)

and for the second question- if something doesn't aromatize to estrogen, there will be no increase in estrogen levels- it is only when aromatization occurs that these issues would be present.....
 
Craigmatthew said:
Gyno [Update] #1
Nipple is still painful, and puffy, but I didn't expect one day to fix this. I'm told wait a week or two for this to go. So patience is the key..which is hard..As mentioned Dirk and Rosie have been helping me address this, and I'm going to keep dosing The One, and run my SERM along side this.

I will run another 60mgs of Nolva tonight, then 40mg's until the pain goes, then 20mg's until the end of cycle. Dirk, let me know what you think?
Click to expand...

just run the nolva until it goes away- it will only be a couple more days until it dissappears.......save the rest for some other time....
 
Wow! Nice! Im glad the pain is subsiding! :clap2:
 
rms80 said:
Just run nolva or clo after- this is the only time I would recommend a SERM for PCT (or in this case, PCT for a PCT, LOL)

and for the second question- if something doesn't aromatize to estrogen, there will be no increase in estrogen levels- it is only when aromatization occurs that these issues would be present.....
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Would you say that 100mg 6-bromo at night for a couple weeks is enough to warrant the use of a SERM when I stop?

The funny thing is I started running the 6-bromo at night when my nips got puffy during my 1-ad cycle. I don't have any lumps or anything just a little puffiness which is still kind of there.
 
metroba said:
Wow! Nice! Im glad the pain is subsiding! :clap2:
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Yeah certainly is good news man! Especially since last night it was really puffy and painful.. enough to make me want to perform a home surgery! haha. Still painful, and the lumps are there, but now I can see progress I can somewhat relax.
 
The ONE [Day SIXTEEN]

Blood Pressure:
Heart Rate:
Weight:

The ONE [CHEST and ABS]

DB Flat Bench:10x12/45x6/40x8+12pushups
Cable Flies Standing:20x10/26x8/26x8
Single Hand Reverse Grip Tricep Pulldown:11x12/14x10/20x8
Rope Pulldown:42x8/48x8

Diet:Good with some dirty pizza in there
Training:Quite tired and lethargic, long week.
Body composition and Look:Still full and pumped.
Muscle Hardness:Up
Vascularity:Normal
Strength:Up
Speed:N/A
Co-ordination:N/A
Quality of Training:Ok, not great, bit tired.
Mood/Aggression:Good mood.
Libido:Up
Joints:Painful
Overall Sense of Feeling:Pretty good considering the last few days.
Notes:Not bad, joints are quite painful, not sure if the nolva effects them much, I'm guessing so.

The ONE [DIET]

08:00
1 cups oats with milk (200calories)
Protein Shake (300 calories) 8g cho's/40g protein/9g fat

Cycle Assist (1serve)
1g vitamin c
joint support
b5
Orange Triad
EFA (1serve)

11:00
One capsules "THE ONE"
4 scoops LG BC+Eaa (minimal calories) 5g bcaa/5g eaa/2.5g glutamine
1 serve Honey roasted Peanuts (250calories) 12.5g cho's/7.5g protein/17g fat
220g Cream Rice (238calories) 42.5g cho's/8.2g protein/3.9g fat
Up and Go shake (200calories) 27.5g cho's/9g protein/3.8 fat

13:00
1 serve Honey roasted Peanuts (250calories) 12.5g cho's/7.5g protein/17g fat
Beef Stew (400calories)
Up and Go shake (200calories) 27.5g cho's/9g protein/3.8 fat
One capsules "THE ONE"

15:00
4 scoops LG BC+Eaa (minimal calories) 5g bcaa/5g eaa/2.5g glutamine
Protein Shake (250 calories) 8g cho's/40g protein/?g fat
220g Cream Rice (238calories) 42.5g cho's/8.2g protein/3.9g fat
One capsules "THE ONE"


16:30
4 scoops LG BC+Eaa (minimal calories) 5g bcaa/5g eaa/2.5g glutamine


17:45
Cycle Assist (1serve)
1g vitamin c
b5
joint support
Mass Gainer shake PWO (450calories) 35g cho's/40g protein/?g fat
4 scoops LG BC+Eaa (minimal calories) 5g bcaa/5g eaa/2.5g glutamine
Banana (86calories) 21g cho's/1g protein/0.27g fat
Pizza (800calories)

22:00
250gram cottage cheese (200calories approx) 25g protein
60mg's nolvadex

Total Calories =
Notes:Bit dirty but not bad on a whole ;)
 
Chicken Breast PreBed with no fats? I liked seeing the beef stew, one of my favourite meals :) I often skim the fat off, which sacrifices flavour unfortunately.

Also you're at 40g Fat + EFA + Massgainer, if I did that right. probably an extra few g's from the oats, but still a bit low, unless you missed one somewhere.
 
Steveoph said:
Chicken Breast PreBed with no fats? I liked seeing the beef stew, one of my favourite meals :) I often skim the fat off, which sacrifices flavour unfortunately.

Also you're at 40g Fat + EFA + Massgainer, if I did that right. probably an extra few g's from the oats, but still a bit low, unless you missed one somewhere.
Click to expand...

Oh, what you are reading there is todays meal lisyt which I havn't updated yet, I cut it from yesterdays meals. But yes, I had chicken breast with no fat. I agree, might want to up my fats eh?
 
glad to hear the gyno is getting better! when I had this issue with my SD run in december I ran 20mg of nolva ED and it was gone in 3 or 4 days...felt tons better within a day or two though!
 
Gyno [Update] #2
Well I have done 2 nights of 60mgs nolvadex now. Looks like the stuff is legit as the pain has gone by maybe 50%. The one lump feels smaller as well so I'm hoping after another 60mg dose I'll be on track to very little pain, then I will dose 40mgs then 20mgs for a few days after to be sure.

Glad this nolvadex seems to be working.
 
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