Wife Has COVID-19

[Ricky10]

Well it’s important to know if it’s COVID or just the flu (that is not extinct btw). They (him and 5 year old brother) are supposed to start school tomorrow so it is important to know if they should stay out of school for the full 14 days even after he gets better.

Well his mom doesn’t want me to get tested so not going to get it done anyway.

Yeah, isn’t testing essentially required anyway when your kid can’t go to school due to a symptomatic illness?

 

[mase1]

Of course. Was just saying you know it's covid why test unless you need a positive test for something.

 

[ELROCK]

Every 3 hours his fever goes back up to 102 then down to 100 after I give him the dose of Tylenol/ibuprofen. No respiratory issues right now. Still not liking any food. He is drinking lots of fluids though and attempts to eat just not liking anything right now.

 

[Rostam]

Every 3 hours his fever goes back up to 102 then down to 100 after I give him the dose of Tylenol/ibuprofen. No respiratory issues right now. Still not liking any food. He is drinking lots of fluids though and attempts to eat just not liking anything right now.

I hope he will be doing much better and recover very soon.
Did you get his test results. Is the covid diagnosis confirmed?

 

[ELROCK]

I hope he will be doing much better and recover very soon.
Did you get his test results. Is the covid diagnosis confirmed?

Thank you. He is eating a little today. Fever still on going. Calms down to 99.8 after the meds kick in then four hours later he is back up to 102.2. No other symptoms right now.

My ex-wife didn’t want me to take him to get tested. So it has not been confirmed COVID. Not worth a fight about it at this point.

 

[ELROCK]

Thank you. He is eating a little today. Fever still on going. Calms down to 99.8 after the meds kick in then four hours later he is back up to 102.2. No other symptoms right now.

My ex-wife didn’t want me to take him to get tested. So it has not been confirmed COVID. Not worth a fight about it at this point.

My son hasn’t had a fever in over 6 hours! He is doing good!

 

[thebigt]

My son hasn’t had a fever in over 6 hours! He is doing good!

great news!!!

 

[Afi140]

great news!!!

Yes sir! Glad to hear it

 

[ELROCK]

No fever or any symptoms from my son in over 24 hours. He feels and looks completely fine. It’s actually incredibly how quickly he bounced back.

 

[ELROCK]

Thanks for all the support!

 

[Ricky10]

No fever or any symptoms from my son in over 24 hours. He feels and looks completely fine. It’s actually incredibly how quickly he bounced back.

Also interesting that your other son, or yourself didn’t seem to come down with anything..

 

[ELROCK]

Also interesting that your other son, or yourself didn’t seem to come down with anything..

Yes, it is. I had the kids keep their distance from each other, but he wasn’t quarantined to his room. I did not care if I caught it from him. He laid on me and I rubbed his back the first two days he didn’t feel well. I am the only one vaccinated out of my two kids and my ex-wife. She had him today and she still feels ok. Although it’s still a little early to say we didn’t catch anything from him though.

 

[Ricky10]

Yes, it is. I had the kids keep their distance from each other, but he wasn’t quarantined to his room. I did not care if I caught it from him. He laid on me and I rubbed his back the first two days he didn’t feel well. I am the only one vaccinated out of my two kids and my ex-wife. She had him today and she still feels ok. Although it’s still a little early to say we didn’t catch anything from him though.

What a good Dad! I would do the same. It’s not like your going to lock him in his room and say “good luck!”

Yeah, certainly not out of the woods yet, and that’s why I knew you wanted to know. How did/are you handling the school issue?

I know schools are likely somewhat different, but if I call out for being anything essentially under the weather, I am required to get a China virus test that day. Sucks balls.

 

[thebigt]

What a good Dad! I would do the same. It’s not like your going to lock him in his room and say “good luck!”

Yeah, certainly not out of the woods yet, and that’s why I knew you wanted to know. How did/are you handling the school issue?

I know schools are likely somewhat different, but if I call out for being anything essentially under the weather, I am required to get a China virus test that day. Sucks balls.

and you are fully vaccinated-eh?

sure am glad my wife and i are retired....

 

[Ricky10]

and you are fully vaccinated-eh?

sure am glad my wife and i are retired....

Yeah, I felt like death with a rip ass cold months ago. Hence I called out because I needed to just stay in bed. Nope! Drive 20 minutes to your nearest China virus testing center as you need to get tested today! I suggested that they come to my house instead, as they were the ones requiring the test. They seemed to think I was kidding though.

 

[Renew1]

Yeah, I felt like death with a rip ass cold months ago. Hence I called out because I needed to just stay in bed. Nope! Drive 20 minutes to your nearest China virus testing center as you need to get tested today! I suggested that they come to my house instead, as they were the ones requiring the test. They seemed to think I was kidding though.

LOL.
Good man!

 

[thebigt]

Yeah, I felt like death with a rip ass cold months ago. Hence I called out because I needed to just stay in bed. Nope! Drive 20 minutes to your nearest China virus testing center as you need to get tested today! I suggested that they come to my house instead, as they were the ones requiring the test. They seemed to think I was kidding though.

that is just plain stupid....just for shyts and giggles compare the normal yearly US death rate from flu compared to flu deaths in 2020.

 

[Ricky10]

that is just plain stupid....just for shyts and giggles compare the normal yearly US death rate from flu compared to flu deaths in 2020.

Your right, I took a sh!t and giggled while looking that up!

 

[thebigt]

Your right, I took a sh!t and giggled while looking that up!

isn't it wonderful that they have cured the flu?

 

[ELROCK]

What a good Dad! I would do the same. It’s not like your going to lock him in his room and say “good luck!”

Yeah, certainly not out of the woods yet, and that’s why I knew you wanted to know. How did/are you handling the school issue?

I know schools are likely somewhat different, but if I call out for being anything essentially under the weather, I am required to get a China virus test that day. Sucks balls.

My oldest started school on Monday and we let him go. My youngest the one with the fever we are keeping him home for 10 days.

 

[GreenMachineX]

For anyone still following this, new study out confirming what @HIT4ME and I have been saying since this thing kicked off about vitamin D!

Vitamin D deficiency and COVID-19: A case-control study at a tertiary care hospital in India - PubMed

Vitamin D status appears to be strongly associated with COVID-19 clinical severity. After COVID-19 confirmation, Vitamin D level should be measured in all patients and curative plus preventive therapy should be initiated.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I highly recommend getting your d3 levels checked to know where you stand! I'd like to think that my wife's case (if it truly was covid) was so easy because he levels are over 60.

Side note,
@enhanced are you completely recovered?

 

[HIT4ME]

For anyone still following this, new study out confirming what @HIT4ME and I have been saying since this thing kicked off about vitamin D!

Vitamin D deficiency and COVID-19: A case-control study at a tertiary care hospital in India - PubMed

Vitamin D status appears to be strongly associated with COVID-19 clinical severity. After COVID-19 confirmation, Vitamin D level should be measured in all patients and curative plus preventive therapy should be initiated.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I highly recommend getting your d3 levels checked to know where you stand! I'd like to think that my wife's case (if it truly was covid) was so easy because he levels are over 60.

Side note,
@enhanced are you completely recovered?

Hey, thanks for this. It shows association/correlation though. Still evidence, but controlled studies should be conducted...which I know we both would love to see.

Haven't had time to keep up with the thread...how is your wife doing? Hope she is recovering/recovered.

 

[enhanced]

For anyone still following this, new study out confirming what @HIT4ME and I have been saying since this thing kicked off about vitamin D!

Vitamin D deficiency and COVID-19: A case-control study at a tertiary care hospital in India - PubMed

Vitamin D status appears to be strongly associated with COVID-19 clinical severity. After COVID-19 confirmation, Vitamin D level should be measured in all patients and curative plus preventive therapy should be initiated.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I highly recommend getting your d3 levels checked to know where you stand! I'd like to think that my wife's case (if it truly was covid) was so easy because he levels are over 60.

Side note,
@enhanced are you completely recovered?

I think I'm just about there. Just a little bit of fatigue still lingering around. Actually going to force myself outside to jog today. First time jogging in years, but I have to start moving.
Mentally, I've definitely been in a fog. I've tried explaining it to my wife. It's really weird. Maybe because I've been out of work since July 29th. I don't know. I go back tonight, so I'll see if it brings me back to normal.

 

[poison]

Also interesting that your other son, or yourself didn’t seem to come down with anything..

I know someone who stayed in a room with a covid positive, symptomatic child for over a week, and did not get it. Oh wait, gotta mention: she has lupus, and takes hydroxychloroquine as part of that treatment. I've also been heavily exposed to covid + body fluids, never was symptomatic.

Have a nice rundown on the vax:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1410033902178111488

https://www.biznews.com/health/2021/06/28/covid-19-vaccine-immunity

Should people who have recovered from COVID take a vaccine?
Epidemiology, immunology and the clinical data all say a clear “No!”. There is no good reason to vaccinate the recovered.

By Marc Girardot*

A British friend, recovered from COVID, decided to get vaccinated despite being naturally immune. This is the email he recently sent me:

“Marc I suffered a mild stroke on Wednesday 8 days after taking the Astrazeneca 2nd dose. Since I am a marathon runner I am a very ‘rare case’. I don’t smoke, have high blood pressure, high cholesterol, family history or come into any of the risk categories for blood clots…

You did warn me against taking the second dose and I wished I’d heeded your advice. I’ve taken a totally unnecessary risk with my life and I bitterly regret doing it.”

Contrary to most, Tony was informed; he had been told about the power of natural immunity, about the long – if not lifelong – duration of immunity, of the risk inherent to any medical procedure (yes, vaccination is a medical procedure!), as well as of the rising levels of adverse events. He admitted he hadn’t imagined it could happen to him…

Though it is hard to assess precisely the actual severity and breadth of vaccine-related adverse events, it is very clear that vaccination against COVID-19 isn’t as harmless as pharmaceuticals, mainstream media, academia, health authorities and the medical community have been saying. And, in contrast to high risk individuals who are still susceptible, recovered people have no real benefit to balance the additional risks of vaccination.

For over a year, mainstream media, health authorities as well as many “experts” have been downplaying the power of the immune system, dismissing natural immunity and proclaiming that immunity to COVID-19 was short-lived. Simultaneously, vaccines have been portrayed as the silver bullet to this crisis, an incidental procedure with no risk whatsoever. The data shows a different picture and many are coming forward, to challenge the official narrative. We will demonstrate that this is a fallacy.

The human immune system is one of the most sophisticated achievements of evolution. The survival of our species has depended on it for millenia. And today, we are still very much relying on it. For the record, 99% of people infected with SARS-CoV-2 recover without treatment. Only 1% of SARS-CoV-2 patients, who did not receive early home-based treatment, end up hospitalised. In other words, the immune system overwhelmingly protects. Even vaccines depend entirely on the immune system: vaccines essentially teach our immune systems what viral markers to be prepared for, they are not cures per se. Without a functional immune system, there can be no effective vaccine.

On the waning immunity fallacy

Once recovered, the immune response recedes, notably via a decrease in antibodies. It is not only natural; it is indispensable to restore the body to a normal balanced state. Just as a permanent state of fever would be harmful, a high number of targetless antibodies or T-cells constantly circulating throughout the body could create serious complications such as autoimmune diseases. Taking an evolutionary perspective, only those whose antibody and T-cells count waned post-infection survived. So, a dropping number of antibodies and T-cells is reassuring, even healthy.

But this decrease in T-cells and antibodies doesn’t mean at all that immunity is gone. It means the immune system has adapted to the new situation, and is now just on sentinel mode: Memory B- and T-cells, circulating in the blood and resident in tissues, act as vigilant and effective sentinels for decades:

Survivors of the Spanish Flu epidemic were tested for their immunity to the 1918 influenza virus 90 years after, and still demonstrated immunity;
people recovered from the 2003 SARS infection demonstrated robust T-Cell responses seventeen years later;
the wide-spread prevalence of high cross-immunity – gained from past common cold infections – further demonstrates the resilience of natural immunity for coronaviruses.

Indeed, all recent studies show the specific anti-SARS-CoV-2 immunity remains effective – possibly for a lifetime. Our immune system is a modular platform, it can combine in an infinite number of ways to address a multitude of threats in a variety of contexts. As such, it is neutral to the viral threats it faces. In other words, there is absolutely no reason to believe that those recovered from Covid-19 would lose their immunity over the years, or even the decades to come.

On the reinfection fallacy

You might have also heard of people becoming reinfected by SARS-CoV-2. Indeed, immunity, natural or vaccine-induced, isn’t the impenetrable shield described by many. Essentially harmless and asymptomatic reinfections do take place. That is, in fact, the very mechanism by which adaptive immunity is triggered.

However, symptomatic reinfections are very rare. Like an army which adapts its response to the size and the progression of its enemy forces, adaptive immunity provides a specific, rapid and resource-optimised response. As such, reinfections are mostly asymptomatic and recovered patients are protected from severe disease.

In fact, innocuous reinfections can play a positive public health role as continuous immune updates of the population. They can help a seamless and progressive adaptation to emerging new variants and strains. And indeed a recent study showed that couples with children were more frequently asymptomatic than couples without, most likely because children acted as natural and harmless immunisation vehicles. The likely reason high density countries all have very low death tolls is that they have asymptomatic reinfections that regularly and widely update the immunity of the population.

On the variant fallacy

As demonstrated by the low numbers of reinfections mentioned above, but also by multiple studies, so far variants have not escaped acquired immunity. Just as Americans can speak and interact seamlessly in England, unhindered by a few word variants, natural or vaccine-induced immunity is unhindered by variants, possibly more so than vaccine-induced immunity. There is ample evidence of the sophistication and breadth of the human immune system, and it is clear that its arsenal cannot be evaded by a few minor changes in the genes of the virus.

Across the world (countries: Canada, Ecuador, Gabon, Germany, India, Singapore, Sweden, UK, USA, Tanzania, Zambia), multiple studies demonstrate high-levels of pre-existing cross-reactive T-cells and antibodies to SARS-CoV-2. In other words, many were already largely immune via other coronaviruses. This is the likely explanation for the unexpectedly high level of asymptomatics during the pandemic. More importantly, this demonstrates that even with large genetic differences, prior immunity to related coronaviruses is sufficient to avoid severe Covid. Therefore, it is quite evident [that] variants are not a concern for the general population who have already recovered.

 

[poison]

On the vaccine better-than-the-natural-immunity fallacy

You might have heard people stating that vaccines provide better protection than natural immunity. That’s an interesting way of bending reality. How can a vaccine be more effective at immunisation than the disease it is trying to mimic?

Theoretically, there are several reasons explaining why natural immunity is better than vaccine-induced immunity:

Fewer immune targets: mRNA/DNA vaccines present only a fraction of the virus genetic code (5-10%). For example, they don’t utilise ORF1 highly immunogenic epitopes. Therefore, the immune system will recruit a smaller number of T-cells tapping into a narrower repertoire, consequently with a less effective response. The logic: Imagine you lose a number of key players for a football tournament – you might still win, but it will be harder.

Longer immune trigger time: The smaller number of epitope targets also means that the alarm to the immune system will be delayed. This is a key driver of success in the COVID-19 battle. The wider the target repertoire, the faster the encounter between dendritic cells and identifiable antigens. The logic: Like a party you go to, you can start partying much faster when you have ten friends there than when you have only one. They are just easier to find.

Inappropriate delivery location: The intramuscular delivery of current vaccines unfortunately doesn’t mimic viral penetration and propagation at all. Coronaviruses don’t enter the body via muscles. They do so via the respiratory tract, often infecting cell to cell. Contrary to muscle-delivered vaccines, natural immunity places a strong sentinel force of memory resident cells at the portals of entry and shuts the body entrance to the virus preemptively. From an evolutionary standpoint, this makes perfect sense. The logic: It’s much easier to stop an army coming through a narrow gorge than on the beaches of Normandy.

Recent research confirms this logic. One comparative study in Israel found the protection from severe disease to be 96·4% for Covid-19 recovered individuals but 94.4% for vaccinated ones, and concluded “Our results question the need to vaccinate previously-infected individuals.” Another reference comparative study by a team at New York University highlighted a faster, wider and more impactful humoral and cytotoxic reaction in recovered immunity versus vaccine-induced.

There is ample evidence that vaccinating people recovered from COVID doesn’t bring any benefit. It quite possibly does the opposite, because of the risk of building tolerance to elements of the virus translating into reduced immune potency.

On the vaccine innocuity fallacy

Without denigrating the incredible contribution of vaccines to modern medicine and public health, one needs to acknowledge that vaccines are a medical procedure. As such, vaccines should never be considered lightly. They are neither neutral, nor trivial, all the more so when they are injected into billions of people.

In their very nature, vaccines tinker with the sophisticated balance of one’s immune system. That in itself demands respecting rigid safety protocols. Though we have made considerable progress in our understanding of immunology, we are still very far from understanding its intricacies and subtleties, especially when it comes to novel mRNA and DNA technologies.

Because of the risk of anaphylactic shock, auto-immune diseases, unforeseen interactions, design flaws, deficient quality protocols, over-dosage, and so on – vaccines have traditionally been strictly regulated.

History teaches us to be watchful with vaccines, from the botched inactivation of polio vaccines that ended infecting 40,000 kids with polio in 1955, to the 1976 swine flu vaccine which caused 450 to develop Guillain-Barré syndrome, to the more recent vaccine-induced outbreak of polio in Sudan. The recent rejection by Brazilian health authorities of the Barhat’s Covaxin is a clear reminder of how rigorous and independent our health authorities need to be if vaccines are to promote, not hinder, public health.

After 6 months of vaccination and a year of research, a number of red signals should be alerting the would-be vaccinated and health authorities:

Wandering nanoparticles: The lipid nanoparticles, the carriers of the mRNA, were supposed to remain in the muscle, but ended up broadly distributed throughout the body, notably in the ovaries, the liver and possibly the bone marrow.

Anaphylactic PEG: A number of concerns had been raised regarding the novel use of PEG adjuvant. Notably, prior research had raised the risk of cardiac anaphylaxis at second injection.

Sensitive locations: ACE-2 receptors susceptible to binding to the spike protein are highly expressed in the endothelial cells of highly sensitive areas, such as the brain, the heart, the lungs, the liver and both male and female reproductive systems.

Toxic circulating spikes: The spike proteins induced by mRNA/DNA vaccines have been shown to be pathogenic, and highly inflammatory, notably because of the similarity of a spike sequence to that of Staphylococcal Enterotoxin B. It has also been found to be directly causing blood clots through platelet activation. One researcher said, “Our findings show that the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein causes lung injury even without the presence of an intact virus”.

BBB disruption: A recent study highlights the risk of disruption of the blood-brain barrier, a fundamental filter mechanism to protect the brain. The spike protein has also been found to cross the BBB and create inflammation in the brain.

High adverse events: Even though most likely under-reported, the overall number of serious adverse events versus other traditional vaccines remains very high. The 6,000+ deaths seen [in the US] in six months exceed all the vaccine-related deaths in 30 years. This is quite disquieting, and tends to confirm the aforementioned alarms.

Children more at risk: The Covid-19 vaccines seem to be more harmful to children and teens, notably with a growing number of myocarditis events. The fact that vaccine doses are not adjusted for body weight is notably a cause for concern given the discovery of circulating nanoparticles and spike toxicity.
These are essentially just the short-term effects of these novel vaccines. There is no long-term clinical data regarding the implications of these vaccines, notably regarding autoreactive antibodies (antibodies that target one’s own body creating autoimmune diseases).

To conclude, we question why anyone healthy and recovered from COVID-19 would want or be advised to take any risk – even the most remote – in getting vaccinated given that:

those who have recovered from COVID-19 enjoy robust immunity;

natural immunity duration is decades-long, probably lifelong;

natural immunity effectiveness is better than vaccine-induced;

variants are not an immunological concern, presenting no risk of immune escape;

vaccines are medical interventions which should never be taken lightly, especially when still experimental;

there is no benefit for COVID-19 recovered;

and

COVID-19 vaccines are obviously not as safe as stated initially by the manufacturers.

Marc Girardot is a member of PANDA and Senior Advisor in Biotech & Automotive/INSEAD MBA.

 

[poison]

And on antibody dependent enhancement:

Highlights

• •
  Infection-enhancing antibodies have been detected in symptomatic Covid-19
• •
  Antibody dependent enhancement (ADE) is a potential concern for vaccines
• •
  Enhancing antibodies recognize both the Wuhan strain and Delta variants
• •
  ADE of Delta variants is a potential risk for current vaccines
• •
  Vaccine formulations lacking ADE epitope are suggested

Abstract
Antibody dependent enhancement (ADE) of infection is a safety concern for vaccine strategies. In a recent publication, Li et al. (Cell 184 :1-17, 2021) have reported that infection-enhancing antibodies directed against the N-terminal domain (NTD) of the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein facilitate virus infection in vitro, but not in vivo. However, this study was performed with the original Wuhan/D614G strain. Since the Covid-19 pandemic is now dominated with Delta variants, we analyzed the interaction of facilitating antibodies with the NTD of these variants. Using molecular modelling approaches, we show that enhancing antibodies have a higher affinity for Delta variants than for Wuhan/D614G NTDs. We show that enhancing antibodies reinforce the binding of the spike trimer to the host cell membrane by clamping the NTD to lipid raft microdomains. This stabilizing mechanism may facilitate the conformational change that induces the demasking of the receptor binding domain. As the NTD is also targeted by neutralizing antibodies, our data suggest that the balance between neutralizing and facilitating antibodies in vaccinated individuals is in favor of neutralization for the original Wuhan/D614G strain. However, in the case of the Delta variant, neutralizing antibodies have a decreased affinity for the spike protein, whereas facilitating antibodies display a strikingly increased affinity. Thus, ADE may be a concern for people receiving vaccines based on the original Wuhan strain spike sequence (either mRNA or viral vectors). Under these circumstances, second generation vaccines with spike protein formulations lacking structurally-conserved ADE-related epitopes should be considered.

 

[Hyde]

I think I'm just about there. Just a little bit of fatigue still lingering around. Actually going to force myself outside to jog today. First time jogging in years, but I have to start moving.
Mentally, I've definitely been in a fog. I've tried explaining it to my wife. It's really weird. Maybe because I've been out of work since July 29th. I don't know. I go back tonight, so I'll see if it brings me back to normal.

Get 1-200mg niacin in you daily for a bit. Will knock that fatigue/fog off in a few days by restoring hyper-depleted B3 levels.

 

[thebigt]

I think I'm just about there. Just a little bit of fatigue still lingering around. Actually going to force myself outside to jog today. First time jogging in years, but I have to start moving.
Mentally, I've definitely been in a fog. I've tried explaining it to my wife. It's really weird. Maybe because I've been out of work since July 29th. I don't know. I go back tonight, so I'll see if it brings me back to normal.

i can't do links but here is article from webmd....'more exercise reduces risk of severe covid 19'

i've also read that running, jogging or brisk walking reduces severity of covid symptoms-slow walking doesn't seem to do much.......this may be why my wife and i had such mild symptoms---i am a avid runner and my wife enjoys brisk walks and strenuous hiking.

 

[enhanced]

i can't do links but here is article from webmd....'more exercise reduces risk of severe covid 19'

i've also read that running, jogging or brisk walking reduces severity of covid symptoms-slow walking doesn't seem to do much.......this may be why my wife and i had such mild symptoms---i am a avid runner and my wife enjoys brisk walks and strenuous hiking.

I managed to get 2 miles in 99° heat with 100% humidity. Lol. Now I get to go work nights all weekend.

 

[thebigt]

I managed to get 2 miles in 99° heat with 100% humidity. Lol. Now I get to go work nights all weekend.

you back to work?

 

[Ricky10]

I know someone who stayed in a room with a covid positive, symptomatic child for over a week, and did not get it. Oh wait, gotta mention: she has lupus, and takes hydroxychloroquine as part of that treatment. I've also been heavily exposed to covid + body fluids, never was symptomatic.

Have a nice rundown on the vax:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1410033902178111488

https://www.biznews.com/health/2021/06/28/covid-19-vaccine-immunity

I am not opposed to many of the points raised in those posts, and I definitely agree that natural immunity isn’t given enough credit. I think there is a great deal of misinformation and presumptions on both ends of the spectrum. There is so much that nobody is even capable of knowing about this novel virus, or what it may ultimately be capable of. Particularly in light of the mutations we will very likely see over the next few years and beyond. Some epidemiologists say the virus may be capable of switching from primarily attacking the lungs to targeting the nervous system/brain.

Of note, I think those people expecting China virus immunity for decades or a lifetime from natural immunity are in for a big disappointment. Not that I think, nor is it expected to be the case with the vaccine(s). Just today, we had a lady who was treated back in April for the China virus, and she came back in today with shortness of breath and tested positive again. She got pulmonary fibrosis from her initial infection, so that first blow resulted in her being high risk. Still no vaccine on board as she never felt well enough to do so.

No matter how any of us feel about this, the vaccine(s) are very close to full FDA approval and the mandates/penalties will be abundant and are just getting underway.

 

[poison]

RE natural immunity, you're wrong. No evidence supports that, and some people had prior immunity from other coronavirus exposure Pre covid+19. Plenty of evidence supports natural immunity being more robust and flexible than vaccine immunity.

As far as mandates, yes, you're right, but only if people bow to them.

 

[puccah8808]

I went out of town (about an hour and a half away) this weekend and now I have to quarantine from work for a week. Makes absolutely no sense….

 

[enhanced]

you back to work?

Yes. Worked the weekend nights. Lucked out and was scheduled for a fairly easy area and had a good weekend.

 

[Dustin07]

Also interesting that your other son, or yourself didn’t seem to come down with anything..

My ex wife and our son both got C19 but her new husband did not, with no quarantining! so weird. he and I have both talkeda bout how strange that was.... he did get tested 3 times as well lol.

For anyone still following this, new study out confirming what @HIT4ME and I have been saying since this thing kicked off about vitamin D!

Vitamin D deficiency and COVID-19: A case-control study at a tertiary care hospital in India - PubMed

Vitamin D status appears to be strongly associated with COVID-19 clinical severity. After COVID-19 confirmation, Vitamin D level should be measured in all patients and curative plus preventive therapy should be initiated.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I highly recommend getting your d3 levels checked to know where you stand! I'd like to think that my wife's case (if it truly was covid) was so easy because he levels are over 60.

Side note,
@enhanced are you completely recovered?

I 100% believe this as well. I was down in AZ when i tested positive. went jogging every day and had the lightest case of ChynaVirus out of everyone I know. actually, met lots of people in AZ who had C19 stories and even folks in their 80s said it was like catching a cold. My wife was back in cold, dark Washington when she tested positive, in the dead of winter, and it hit her far harder.

i can't do links but here is article from webmd....'more exercise reduces risk of severe covid 19'

i've also read that running, jogging or brisk walking reduces severity of covid symptoms-slow walking doesn't seem to do much.......this may be why my wife and i had such mild symptoms---i am a avid runner and my wife enjoys brisk walks and strenuous hiking.

totally agree again, as I said above, I went on a 2 mile jog every day when I had it. at the very worst, I did switch to a walk a couple times but that lasted like 1-2 days. I truly believe that you must stay somewhat active and mobile through infection to help your body recover. there could be a mental health connection here as well as physical.

I am not opposed to many of the points raised in those posts, and I definitely agree that natural immunity isn’t given enough credit. I think there is a great deal of misinformation and presumptions on both ends of the spectrum. There is so much that nobody is even capable of knowing about this novel virus, or what it may ultimately be capable of. Particularly in light of the mutations we will very likely see over the next few years and beyond. Some epidemiologists say the virus may be capable of switching from primarily attacking the lungs to targeting the nervous system/brain.

Of note, I think those people expecting China virus immunity for decades or a lifetime from natural immunity are in for a big disappointment. Not that I think, nor is it expected to be the case with the vaccine(s). Just today, we had a lady who was treated back in April for the China virus, and she came back in today with shortness of breath and tested positive again. She got pulmonary fibrosis from her initial infection, so that first blow resulted in her being high risk. Still no vaccine on board as she never felt well enough to do so.

No matter how any of us feel about this, the vaccine(s) are very close to full FDA approval and the mandates/penalties will be abundant and are just getting underway.

Not to argue at all, or discredit the situation. But she could just as easily be experiencing an unrelated illness and still be testing positive. we know that healthy folks can test positive for months after having it. the doctors specifically told us not to have our 11yr old tested for at least like 6 months because he could continue to test positive for at least that long after full recovery.

 

[Kronic]

My son hasn’t had a fever in over 6 hours! He is doing good!

elrock over here 360 no scoping with an infared thermometer

 

[Ricky10]

My ex wife and our son both got C19 but her new husband did not, with no quarantining! so weird. he and I have both talkeda bout how strange that was.... he did get tested 3 times as well lol.


Not to argue at all, or discredit the situation. But she could just as easily be experiencing an unrelated illness and still be testing positive. we know that healthy folks can test positive for months after having it. the doctors specifically told us not to have our 11yr old tested for at least like 6 months because he could continue to test positive for at least that long after full recovery.

Yeah, I think we have all heard about people being exposed to positive cases and overcoming the odds, especially in the case of positive children to parents that never end up testing positive. There are probably a few factors involved in this, but prior or recent infection with a common coronavirus (cold) has been discredited and deemed as insignificant protection. Then of course we have entire families that become ill.

Again, there are so many unanswered questions, that it’s rather presumptuous for any of us to draw any conclusions when experts in the field on various levels are relaying so much conflicting information, studies, and predictions. The experts who state that we simply don’t know about a majority of this are actually the ones who are right on the money

I know this lady that was readmitted yesterday well enough to recall that she did have subsequent negative tests after her first infection/recovery. People who test positive 90 days after their first infection are deemed to have a new infection and are treated as if it were their first infection based on severity of that current illness. I don’t know how severe she is this time, as I was leaving for the day and never saw her personally.

 

[Ricky10]

RE natural immunity, you're wrong. No evidence supports that, and some people had prior immunity from other coronavirus exposure Pre covid+19. Plenty of evidence supports natural immunity being more robust and flexible than vaccine immunity.

As far as mandates, yes, you're right, but only if people bow to them.

While I appreciate your enthusiasm toward natural immunity lasting up to a lifetime, you seem to be hand picking only those sources that support what you want to believe and the ABSOLUTE best case scenario. Reinfection from a prior infection has already been happening, so there’s that. Of course we are also seeing infection/hospitalizations within the vaccinated population, albeit a much lower percentage. While it’s still frustrating and disappointing, that potential has been transparent from the beginning.

I will say that so far, the vaccinated population of admitted patients have evaded intubation, as well as permanent lung damage, as they tend to have very uncomplicated and much faster recoveries. Except for one 90 year old fully vaccinated man that remained on very high oxygen levels for months, so oxygen toxicity itself destroyed his lungs.

Do you even know if you have natural immunity/prior infection…I presume not? I just strongly urge you not to place all your eggs in one basket and open your mind to the fact that you are not invincible in any case. It’s very likely for everyone not vaccinated (and some that are vaccinated) to test positive with the delta variant in the coming months. I also assume you are a healthy individual and would likely recover on your own, or with outpatient care at most. But if you are ever admitted, don’t be one of those arrogant people that pretend to know more about their own care than the doctors and other healthcare workers who are doing everything they can to help you. This doesn’t go over well.

We have had some people tear off their oxygen and get up out of bed (against medical advice) to walk around the room to “prove to us” they don’t need it and can go home. Then they pass out in 10 seconds and fall on the floor. Sometimes they need that slap of reality and it tends to only happen once.

In regard to bowing down mandates, are you willing to pay more for your health insurance every year, while also being more financially responsible for your medical bills in the event you are unfortunately admitted for the China virus without a vaccine on record? Then the restrictions on travel, employment, education, sporting events, and even eating in a restaurant? All of that is coming, while some of which has obviously already been implemented with likely more to come. I have mixed feelings about many of those for sure, but it’s the reality we face regardless.

 

[Hyde]

In regard to bowing down mandates, are you willing to pay more for your health insurance every year, while also being more financially responsible for your medical bills in the event you are unfortunately admitted for the China virus without a vaccine on record? Then the restrictions on travel, employment, education, sporting events, and even eating in a restaurant? All of that is coming, while some of which has obviously already been implemented with likely more to come. I have mixed feelings about many of those for sure, but it’s the reality we face regardless.

To be clear, I’m not getting into the medical side of this; I am not trying to discredit the potential severity of COVID or judge folks for seeking vaccination. People deserve the chance to try to manage their health however seems best to them! And to seek whatever treatment may be available.

Regarding your questions about limitations and attempt at government control: we will be held to whatever standard we collectively allow. If you don’t want something, don’t do agree to it and don’t partake in it. Often what is easiest and what is best for us are not the same things. I greatly appreciate having access to modern medicine that can make treatments and educated counseling available to me. I absolutely am opposed to a government telling me what I must put in my body.

I will pay more for insurance, and I understand there can be more cost. My shitty insurance at the time when my bicep blew off covered NOTHING for the repair. I worked with good-hearted doctors and paid a couple thousand less in the end than if I had had insurance & I made it through financially. I don’t need to travel anywhere that doesn’t want me, or work for anyone who is trying to tell me how to medicate my body. Public education in this country is a joke already. I don’t care about sports. I do not wish to patronize any restaurant that bows to these ideologies.

Think for yourself. You get one life, and there is always a choice.

 

[Dustin07]

Generally speaking we know that (generally speaking) healthy individuals are fine. I can take care of my health and take responsibility for my health. after 18 months of this virus we have seen a camp of individuals who have lived in fear, they took their own lives metaphorically. locked down or wrapped themselves up in bubble wrap. Some dodged getting sick, some got a little sick, some died.

then there are those who decided to live life, and accept that it comes with risk. Some dodged getting sick, some got a little sick, some died.

I'm in the camp of making my own decisions. When I went to my heart doctor a couple years ago with a severe murmur we discovered I had a birth defect in my heart (bicuspid aortic). They said that my lifestyle of health had likely hid it all these years, and that I could require heart surgery in the next decade, or at age 90 or maybe never. He said I could also get hit by an ice cream truck on my way through the parking lot back to my car and be killed.

we should be responsible, but there is balance.

many many people are willing to be guinea pigs for the vaccine and are willing to force me to follow suit. I am willing to be a guinea pig for her immunity but won't force anyone to join me.

 

[Ricky10]

To be clear, I’m not getting into the medical side of this; I am not trying to discredit the potential severity of COVID or judge folks for seeking vaccination. People deserve the chance to try to manage their health however seems best to them! And to seek whatever treatment may be available.

Regarding your questions about limitations and attempt at government control: we will be held to whatever standard we collectively allow. If you don’t want something, don’t do agree to it and don’t partake in it. Often what is easiest and what is best for us are not the same things. I greatly appreciate having access to modern medicine that can make treatments and educated counseling available to me. I absolutely am opposed to a government telling me what I must put in my body.

I will pay more for insurance, and I understand there can be more cost. My shitty insurance at the time when my bicep blew off covered NOTHING for the repair. I worked with good-hearted doctors and paid a couple thousand less in the end than if I had had insurance & I made it through financially. I don’t need to travel anywhere that doesn’t want me, or work for anyone who is trying to tell me how to medicate my body. Public education in this country is a joke already. I don’t care about sports. I do not wish to patronize any restaurant that bows to these ideologies.

Think for yourself. You get one life, and there is always a choice.

I don’t think anyone loves the idea of the government telling us what we can or can’t do in terms of the vax or restrictions. However, thus far it has more so been corporations/businesses implementing their own mandates before government intervention. In the case of my employer, MaineHealth, the vaccine mandate was announced two or three weeks ago, and then our governor decided to make it mandatory for all healthcare workers just four days ago. It’s like ughh, your a little late there babe. Other businesses are imposing the mandates or will be due to the notion that it will preserve a healthy and thriving workplace. At the same time, customers will feel “safer” in these establishments.

I don’t think many people will be as receptive to the disruptions in their lifestyle or paying more money toward their health insurance as you. I certainly do agree that health insurance sucks ass as it is, and I also don’t care about sporting events or most other public activities. Travel of course is always nice, and I do enjoy a restaurant from time to time

Generally speaking we know that (generally speaking) healthy individuals are fine. I can take care of my health and take responsibility for my health. after 18 months of this virus we have seen a camp of individuals who have lived in fear, they took their own lives metaphorically. locked down or wrapped themselves up in bubble wrap. Some dodged getting sick, some got a little sick, some died.

then there are those who decided to live life, and accept that it comes with risk. Some dodged getting sick, some got a little sick, some died.

I'm in the camp of making my own decisions. When I went to my heart doctor a couple years ago with a severe murmur we discovered I had a birth defect in my heart (bicuspid aortic). They said that my lifestyle of health had likely hid it all these years, and that I could require heart surgery in the next decade, or at age 90 or maybe never. He said I could also get hit by an ice cream truck on my way through the parking lot back to my car and be killed.

we should be responsible, but there is balance.

many many people are willing to be guinea pigs for the vaccine and are willing to force me to follow suit. I am willing to be a guinea pig for her immunity but won't force anyone to join me.

All true, however if we want to say that those people willing to get the vaccine are guinea pigs, it would only make sense to also refer to people who are willing to catch the virus itself as guinea pigs. The only difference is that one is consensual while both come with a degree of risk. Both are agreeably novel.

To reiterate a statement by @HIT4ME :

I also find it humorous people like to throw out the fictitious .02% risk of dying as a reason that you shouldn't be afraid of the virus, but then turn around and state that you SHOULD be afraid of a vaccine because of a .001% risk.

 

[thebigt]

Yeah, I think we have all heard about people being exposed to positive cases and overcoming the odds, especially in the case of positive children to parents that never end up testing positive. There are probably a few factors involved in this, but prior or recent infection with a common coronavirus (cold) has been discredited and deemed as insignificant protection. Then of course we have entire families that become ill.

Again, there are so many unanswered questions, that it’s rather presumptuous for any of us to draw any conclusions when experts in the field on various levels are relaying so much conflicting information, studies, and predictions. The experts who state that we simply don’t know about a majority of this are actually the ones who are right on the money

I know this lady that was readmitted yesterday well enough to recall that she did have subsequent negative tests after her first infection/recovery. People who test positive 90 days after their first infection are deemed to have a new infection and are treated as if it were their first infection based on severity of that current illness. I don’t know how severe she is this time, as I was leaving for the day and never saw her personally.

one of those unanswered questions i keep coming back to is long term safety?

it seems the only thing the pro-vaccine experts never change on is that the vaccines have long term safety,
when vaccines 1st came out there was no mention of vaccines only having short term protection and needing booster shots....it seems everything is changing EXCEPT the certainty of the long term safety of vaccines.

if everything worked as well on paper as it does in real life pharmaceutical companies wouldn't spend billions developing a new drug only to find that it is ineffective or causes serious UNEXPECTED side effects....that is why new drugs have a 5-7 year clinical trial before release to public---and even after all that many drugs are recalled and removed from the market--even after passing the 5-7 year clinical trial

i had no idea how many drugs are recalled every year until i did some research.

i recommended that my 87 year old mother get the vaccine, at her age the possibily of her dying from covid far out-weighed the long term risk....but my family all decided we are healthy enough to take our chances---all of us have had the covid and only one son-in law who is 15-20lbs overweight had symptoms worse than a mild cold, and he just felt like he had the flu and never came close to needing hospitalization.

but hey, thats just me and my family, i won't try to discourage anyone from doing what they think is best!!!

 

[HIT4ME]

Been super busy, hard to spend time here. Got an email because @Ricky10 mentioned me...if he is quoting me, I must be doing something right.

Honestly, I also like some parts of Dustin's views too though. I don't think we should be forcing anyone to get a vaccine. This entire thing is novel and nuanced and people just like to have answers where there aren't any.

Is the vaccine rushed? Yes. Is there a risk in the vaccine? Sure. Are some people going too far with the government controlling lives and decisions. Certainly. Are some people being irresponsible and stupid in their refusal to assess the risk of Covid? Yes.

But people want to act like they are being smart when they decide covid is dangerous or safe, or a vax is dangerous or safe. The truth is, deciding either at this point is the opposite of smart. WE DON'T KNOW. We lack science and data. We have to make our best guesses without the info, because this is novel.

What we do know is that this is a highly infectious disease that has killed, most likely, around 1.5% of the people who have had it - in the face of a highly energized effort to combat it and with lockdowns and precautions being thrust upon us. I know everyone likes to keep saying 0.2% but there is no data to support that at all.

Still, is a vax right for everyone? Nope. And is THIS vaccine the answer? I would say the jury is still out. In MA there was a recent breakout where 75% of the people who caught covid were fully vaccinated. Given that 1/3 of the US population is now vaccinated, I would suggest we would expect a drop off in cases that was much sharper than what we are seeing. But maybe we just need more time.

I am not sure how anyone thinks Covid isn't a real danger at this point. It is akin to denying the second world War was going on - except Covid has killed more Americans in 1.5 years than both world wars combined.

But I don't have any answer for the problem...and I am not going to force my guesses onto someone else. Hell- we have more evidence that cigarettes cause lung cancer than we do that the vaccine works and we still allow people to smoke. If we don't force people to act in ways we can support with evidence, how foolish is it to force someone to do something based on a guess?

Ultimately, sorry for the rant, just trying to display how little we know and how foolish being so sure of ourselves on either side really is. I do it too....not a judgement.

 

[Dustin07]

All true, however if we want to say that those people willing to get the vaccine are guinea pigs, it would only make sense to also refer to people who are willing to catch the virus itself are guinea pigs. The only difference is that one is consensual while both come with a degree of risk. Both are agreeably novel.

Dude that's literally what I said lol, we agree
I am on the same page with you for sure

 

[Dustin07]

Been super busy, hard to spend time here. Got an email because @Ricky10 mentioned me...if he is quoting me, I must be doing something right.

Honestly, I also like some parts of Dustin's views too though. I don't think we should be forcing anyone to get a vaccine. This entire thing is novel and nuanced and people just like to have answers where there aren't any.

Is the vaccine rushed? Yes. Is there a risk in the vaccine? Sure. Are some people going too far with the government controlling lives and decisions. Certainly. Are some people being irresponsible and stupid in their refusal to assess the risk of Covid? Yes.

But people want to act like they are being smart when they decide covid is dangerous or safe, or a vax is dangerous or safe. The truth is, deciding either at this point is the opposite of smart. WE DON'T KNOW. We lack science and data. We have to make our best guesses without the info, because this is novel.

What we do know is that this is a highly infectious disease that has killed, most likely, around 1.5% of the people who have had it - in the face of a highly energized effort to combat it and with lockdowns and precautions being thrust upon us. I know everyone likes to keep saying 0.2% but there is no data to support that at all.

Still, is a vax right for everyone? Nope. And is THIS vaccine the answer? I would say the jury is still out. In MA there was a recent breakout where 75% of the people who caught covid were fully vaccinated. Given that 1/3 of the US population is now vaccinated, I would suggest we would expect a drop off in cases that was much sharper than what we are seeing. But maybe we just need more time.

I am not sure how anyone thinks Covid isn't a real danger at this point. It is akin to denying the second world War was going on - except Covid has killed more Americans in 1.5 years than both world wars combined.

But I don't have any answer for the problem...and I am not going to force my guesses onto someone else. Hell- we have more evidence that cigarettes cause lung cancer than we do that the vaccine works and we still allow people to smoke. If we don't force people to act in ways we can support with evidence, how foolish is it to force someone to do something based on a guess?

Ultimately, sorry for the rant, just trying to display how little we know and how foolish being so sure of ourselves on either side really is. I do it too....not a judgement.

What's great about all of this is that this virus coincidentally came out during a highly politicized year in world history, a time when BLM and ANTIFA ran amuck, along with <add what ever political thing that pissed you off in 2020 happened), and while we spent the first year fighting about it, I do feel like humans on both sides are asking more questions and looking at things a little more openly.

For instance, I made no lifestyle changes in the past 2 years aside from washing my hands a little more a year ago. that's gone. although I'm probably more aware of washing before eating than I used to be (ha). BUT, I do feel like now that we have temporarily passed a political season (sorta), the discussions are becoming more cordial

 

[thebigt]

Been super busy, hard to spend time here. Got an email because @Ricky10 mentioned me...if he is quoting me, I must be doing something right.

Honestly, I also like some parts of Dustin's views too though. I don't think we should be forcing anyone to get a vaccine. This entire thing is novel and nuanced and people just like to have answers where there aren't any.

Is the vaccine rushed? Yes. Is there a risk in the vaccine? Sure. Are some people going too far with the government controlling lives and decisions. Certainly. Are some people being irresponsible and stupid in their refusal to assess the risk of Covid? Yes.

But people want to act like they are being smart when they decide covid is dangerous or safe, or a vax is dangerous or safe. The truth is, deciding either at this point is the opposite of smart. WE DON'T KNOW. We lack science and data. We have to make our best guesses without the info, because this is novel.

What we do know is that this is a highly infectious disease that has killed, most likely, around 1.5% of the people who have had it - in the face of a highly energized effort to combat it and with lockdowns and precautions being thrust upon us. I know everyone likes to keep saying 0.2% but there is no data to support that at all.

Still, is a vax right for everyone? Nope. And is THIS vaccine the answer? I would say the jury is still out. In MA there was a recent breakout where 75% of the people who caught covid were fully vaccinated. Given that 1/3 of the US population is now vaccinated, I would suggest we would expect a drop off in cases that was much sharper than what we are seeing. But maybe we just need more time.

I am not sure how anyone thinks Covid isn't a real danger at this point. It is akin to denying the second world War was going on - except Covid has killed more Americans in 1.5 years than both world wars combined.

But I don't have any answer for the problem...and I am not going to force my guesses onto someone else. Hell- we have more evidence that cigarettes cause lung cancer than we do that the vaccine works and we still allow people to smoke. If we don't force people to act in ways we can support with evidence, how foolish is it to force someone to do something based on a guess?

Ultimately, sorry for the rant, just trying to display how little we know and how foolish being so sure of ourselves on either side really is. I do it too....not a judgement.

i just want the so called experts to say-WE DON"T KNOW when asked about long term side effects...a little honesty never hurts!!!


look at how many died from flu in 2019 [24,000-62,000] .....compared to how many died in 2020[ 646]

it's a miracle, the flu has been cured, lol.

 

[Dustin07]

i just want the so called experts to say-WE DON"T KNOW when asked about long term side effects...a little honesty never hurts!!!


look at how many died from flu in 2019 [24,000-62,000] .....compared to how many died in 2020[ 646]

it's a miracle, the flu has been cured, lol.

I think we are wise, and justified in being suspicious while simultaneously observant and cautious.

 

[thebigt]

I think we are wise, and justified in being suspicious while simultaneously observant and cautious.

for now at least the covid is over for me and my family-we have ALL had it and are doing well....

tbh my mother got both vaccine shots and is doing well, at least so far---but she is very tough, she had breast cancer 7 years ago and went thru mastectomy and full course of chemotherapy at age 90 and the only thing she complained about was losing her hair--today she is cancer free--THANK GOD!!!

 

[HIT4ME]

What's great about all of this is that this virus coincidentally came out during a highly politicized year in world history, a time when BLM and ANTIFA ran amuck, along with <add what ever political thing that pissed you off in 2020 happened), and while we spent the first year fighting about it, I do feel like humans on both sides are asking more questions and looking at things a little more openly.

For instance, I made no lifestyle changes in the past 2 years aside from washing my hands a little more a year ago. that's gone. although I'm probably more aware of washing before eating than I used to be (ha). BUT, I do feel like now that we have temporarily passed a political season (sorta), the discussions are becoming more cordial

This is the thing. I do feel like it was used to create a political advantage and divide people. All that stuff had nothing to do with a virus being out there, it just got mixed in and somehow Antifa was an idea and it meant you were against people getting sick and dying, and if you were skeptical of lockdowns you must be for cops killing black people...nobody has any nuance to their thoughts anymore. Yeah, I am against cops killing black people. No I am not against cops killing people, regardless of color, who pose an immediate and potentially lethal danger to the cop or other citizens. That's kind of the job.

i just want the so called experts to say-WE DON"T KNOW when asked about long term side effects...a little honesty never hurts!!!


look at how many died from flu in 2019 [24,000-62,000] .....compared to how many died in 2020[ 646]

it's a miracle, the flu has been cured, lol.

The issue is most other people in the US argue vehemently that experts should be trusted (insert arguments for global warming here) so they don't want to hear the experts don't know something.

Honestly, the flu thing makes sense though. It shows that avoiding others prevents the spread of disease by almost 97%. And if it worked that well for the flu, just think if it did, in fact, have that effect on Covid as well. The flu being so low is probably the best argument out there for lockdowns. Instead of 600,000 dead...the flu numbers suggest a truly devastating possibility if we hadn't stayed home. Not that 600,000 is such a great thing.

I could get sucked into a big political convo here that belongs in the Trump thread...so I should stop. It's already too late haha

 

[Kronic]

shouldn't we be on lambda variant now