Tongkat Ali LJ100

[JYD]

I like SNS products. I'm currently stacking OL LJ100 witch SNS Bulbine and Inhibit-P. I'm about 9 days in and don't feel much yet.

 

[totalpackage]

better add some M-TEST to that pile...from my experience fadogia and longjack is a killer combo-serious business!!!

I looked at the profile of M-Test and it looks GOOD but slightly light on the long jack where I would of
like to see 1000mg but it still looks dosed well on everything else so I WILL be picking up a few jars
when I do some serious shopping in a couple weeks during the holiday sales.

I'm getting ready to start week 6 on Olympus LJ100 and I'm doing to up the dosage from 3 to 4 caps a day
but that's the highest I'll go and I'm gonna see how that works. I do have 2 jars of T-Force Fadogia so I might
start running that along side with the LJ100 after I try one week of the 4 caps of long jack.

The Fadogia when I add it I will do 6 caps a day spaced out with 2 caps with breakfast, lunch, and dinner and
I will be doing it just like the long jack Mon-Fri weekends off.

 

[totalpackage]

I like SNS products. I'm currently stacking OL LJ100 witch SNS Bulbine and Inhibit-P. I'm about 9 days in and don't feel much yet.

You probably won't feel much at day 9 but from day 14-21 you should start to feel the libido and erections kicking
in and how are you dosing everything.?

 

[JYD]

You probably won't feel much at day 9 but from day 14-21 you should start to feel the libido and erections kicking
in and how are you dosing everything.?

2 LJ100. (5/2) - go 3?
1 or 2 Bulbine - daily
1 or 2 Inhibit-P - daily

I will only know the right dosage/formula for my goal by playing around with it incrementally.

I tend to have lower E2 so I don't want these products to lower it too much. I dropped Inhibit-E from this stack and added the Bulbine.

Any thoughts?

 

[totalpackage]

2 LJ100. (5/2) - go 3?
1 or 2 Bulbine - daily
1 or 2 Inhibit-P - daily

I will only know the right dosage/formula for my goal by playing around with it incrementally.

I tend to have lower E2 so I don't want these products to lower it too much. I dropped Inhibit-E from this stack and added the Bulbine.

Any thoughts?

For me Bulbine works at 1 cap a day and I'm under 180lbs and the LJ100 you can boost it to 3 caps after the 2nd
week and see what happens. I have 2 jars of Inhibit-E also but I'm not running it now but I tryout 2 jars when it was
first released and I didn't feel it was that strong at all but then again everyone is effected differently by these types
of supplements.

 

[warbird01]

2 LJ100. (5/2) - go 3?
1 or 2 Bulbine - daily
1 or 2 Inhibit-P - daily

I will only know the right dosage/formula for my goal by playing around with it incrementally.

I tend to have lower E2 so I don't want these products to lower it too much. I dropped Inhibit-E from this stack and added the Bulbine.

Any thoughts?

Start at 1 cap of bulbine then possibly increase to 2 caps.
Your sweet spot should be somewhere between 1-2 caps.

 

[UCSMiami]

Do folks taking such large doses of LJ and without suffering excessive reactions have low-T? I recall going into hyper energetic, beast mode after a dosing with LJ.

 

[NoAddedHmones]

2 LJ100. (5/2) - go 3?
1 or 2 Bulbine - daily
1 or 2 Inhibit-P - daily

I will only know the right dosage/formula for my goal by playing around with it incrementally.

I tend to have lower E2 so I don't want these products to lower it too much. I dropped Inhibit-E from this stack and added the Bulbine.

Any thoughts?

How come you want to do 5/2, should just dose each day, 200mg is a sweet spot for most. More gives me bad acne breakouts.

 

[JYD]

How come you want to do 5/2, should just dose each day, 200mg is a sweet spot for most. More gives me bad acne breakouts.

I've been wondering what is the real consensus on 5/2 vs every day.

Most of the research I see says 5/2. Is that changing??

 

[muscleupcrohn]

I've been wondering what is the real consensus on 5/2 vs every day.

Most of the research I see says 5/2. Is that changing??

Most of the research (studies) I've seen use daily dosing over a period of weeks.

 

[hsk]

Do folks taking such large doses of LJ and without suffering excessive reactions have low-T? I recall going into hyper energetic, beast mode after a dosing with LJ.

If you raise the dose slowly and give your body a few days to adjust to the new dosage, it is fine. I get extra energy whenever I take the dose up higher, but i usually adjust to the new dosage within 5-7 days. First 2-3 days I may have trouble sleeping. Also I try to take the majority of the daily dose first thing in the morning and I make sure to not take any past a certain time. This helps with high doses.

 

[Danes]

I've been wondering what is the real consensus on 5/2 vs every day.

Most of the research I see says 5/2. Is that changing??

What??
What research say 5/2? Find me one !
Take it everyday!

 

[Danes]

Most of the research (studies) I've seen use daily dosing over a period of weeks.

Correct

 

[thebigt]

I looked at the profile of M-Test and it looks GOOD but slightly light on the long jack where I would of
like to see 1000mg but it still looks dosed well on everything else so I WILL be picking up a few jars
when I do some serious shopping in a couple weeks during the holiday sales.

I'm getting ready to start week 6 on Olympus LJ100 and I'm doing to up the dosage from 3 to 4 caps a day
but that's the highest I'll go and I'm gonna see how that works. I do have 2 jars of T-Force Fadogia so I might
start running that along side with the LJ100 after I try one week of the 4 caps of long jack.

The Fadogia when I add it I will do 6 caps a day spaced out with 2 caps with breakfast, lunch, and dinner and
I will be doing it just like the long jack Mon-Fri weekends off.

sounds like a plan. I stack everything anyways and since I am in pct I aint gonna play...I bought 2 bottles of m-test and 2 of bulbine, I also bought 2 kings blood that should be shipped this week-it is my honest opinion that m-test/kingsblood should be the ultimate natty stack...going to add those to the clomid/exem/invictus I have been using for what should be an optimal pct, imo......not to mention the virtus I have on stand-by, lol.

 

[hsk]

What??
What research say 5/2? Find me one !
Take it everyday!

I agree. Daily consistent dosing is best. Even better would be daily consistent mega-dosing! =)

 

[Joshlm69]

If money isn't an issue; what would be the optimal dosage of OL LJ100 for someone who weighs 180lbs?

 

[vujade]

If money isn't an issue; what would be the optimal dosage of OL LJ100 for someone who weighs 180lbs?

400 to 600mg per day.

 

[rtmilburn]

If money isn't an issue; what would be the optimal dosage of OL LJ100 for someone who weighs 180lbs?

400 to 600mg per day.

This is definitely good advice! So don't take what I'm a bout to say the wrong way, because you still are correct.

However from the studies I've seen and from talking to Danes, it seem the 800mgs, no matter weight or age, is pretty much the best dose. As it's well studied at the dose. It hasn't shown to diminish effects. Heck higher doses may even be better. However, money is the definitely an issue with this stuff as it's not cheap for lj100.

So if we are talking theoretically, where money is no issue, 800mgs and higher; seems to be the the best dose.

 

[hsk]

If money isn't an issue; what would be the optimal dosage of OL LJ100 for someone who weighs 180lbs?

If money is no object, I would recommend 800mg of OL LJ100 daily or more.

 

[Danes]

This is definitely good advice! So don't take what I'm a bout to say the wrong way, because you still are correct.

However from the studies I've seen and from talking to Danes, it seem the 800mgs, no matter weight or age, is pretty much the best dose. As it's well studied at the dose. It hasn't shown to diminish effects. Heck higher doses may even be better. However, money is the definitely an issue with this stuff as it's not cheap for lj100.

So if we are talking theoretically, where money is no issue, 800mgs and higher; seems to be the the best dose.

I do agree here.
Ofcourse a dose of 100-200mg may be good for some, but more would definitely be even better.
It is also very good to start with a low dose such as 100-200mg and then increase the dose. (That way you may find sweet spot when it comes to sides etc)

 

[horizons]

To be honest I don't feel much between 300mg and 600mg

Which is a good thing because it makes it easier on the wallet haha

 

[rtmilburn]

To be honest I don't feel much between 300mg and 600mg

Which is a good thing because it makes it easier on the wallet haha

Ya definitely the recommended amount of 800mgs MAY not be needed. So definitely start low and increase slowly, to find YOUR "sweet spot". Just like you should with most supplements. Also just because you don't feel any difference; does not mean it is not working better.

 

[Danes]

To be honest I don't feel much between 300mg and 600mg

Which is a good thing because it makes it easier on the wallet haha

I do believe you but it may be a difference on bloodwork

 

[rtmilburn]

I do believe you but it may be a difference on bloodwork

Exactly!

 

[horizons]

I do believe you but it may be a difference on bloodwork

What's bloodwork?

 

[rtmilburn]

Danes have you tried the new mesobolin 250, that uses cyclosome? I ask because, I know you love ecdys, and this looks like the best ecdys product there is. Other than buying in bulk and MEGA dosing, like you have. I've been curious with ecdys forever(as you know), but i just can't bring myself to fork out the cash for bulk supply of it. It does seems as ecdys has great potential but dose, absorption, and cost are a major factor. Hence why people say it hasn't work.

Also what are your thoughts on laxogenin. I do know that most of the marketing claims are bs! However does it work but not as claimed? If it does work what other forms are there other than 5a-hydroxylaxogenin? Because it seems to me it would be kinda like ecdys where the more types of it the better but I can't find much(AT ALL) on this stuff.

And one last one. What are your thoughts on brassinosteroids, like 28-brassinosteroid?

Sorry for such a long post!

 

[Danes]

What's bloodwork?

Haha

 

[Danes]

Danes have you tried the new mesobolin 250, that uses cyclosome? I ask because, I know you love ecdys, and this looks like the best ecdys product there is. Other than buying in bulk and MEGA dosing, like you have. I've been curious with ecdys forever(as you know), but i just can't bring myself to fork out the cash for bulk supply of it. It does seems as ecdys has great potential but dose, absorption, and cost are a major factor. Hence why people say it hasn't work.

Also what are your thoughts on laxogenin. I do know that most of the marketing claims are bs! However does it work but not as claimed? If it does work what other forms are there other than 5a-hydroxylaxogenin? Because it seems to me it would be kinda like ecdys where the more types of it the better but I can't find much(AT ALL) on this stuff.

And one last one. What are your thoughts on brassinosteroids, like 28-brassinosteroid?

Sorry for such a long post!

PM coming your way

 

[ucheoma]

40 pages but no single bloodwork?? 800 mg of LJ100 is no small expense. It would have been good to see bloodwork by a member on this dosage so one could determine its value for money or even high dosing of any other LJ product

 

[muscleupcrohn]

40 pages but no single bloodwork?? 800 mg of LJ100 is no small expense. It would have been good to see bloodwork by a member on this dosage so one could determine its value for money or even high dosing of any other LJ product

Not everyone who uses tongkat ali is taking it to increase their testosterone per se; other effects like improved libido and mood are what some people look for from LJ, which would make bloodwork rather pointless. Also, if someone with normal test levels is using tongkat ali, and noticing benefits, why even bother with bloodwork? We know that it's not going to increase testosterone to supraphysiological levels.

 

[ma70]

Not everyone who uses tongkat ali is taking it to increase their testosterone per se; other effects like improved libido and mood are what some people look for from LJ, which would make bloodwork rather pointless. Also, if someone with normal test levels is using tongkat ali, and noticing benefits, why even bother with bloodwork? We know that it's not going to increase testosterone to supraphysiological levels.

This, and also, it's interesting when there's that one guy who consistently asks bloodwork for everything. If you're really that curious, do it yourself.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

This, and also, it's interesting when there's that one guy who consistently asks bloodwork for everything. If you're really that curious, do it yourself.

Also, there ARE studies on many of these ingredients (tongkat ali included) that DID do bloodwork, studies that had placebo groups, and did a much better job of minimizing variables than the average forum member would. I'm not sure why multiple studies are somehow less useful than one or two random peoples' supposed bloodwork. Also, there are many reports ITT of tongkat ali "working."

 

[ma70]

Also, there ARE studies on many of these ingredients (tongkat ali included) that DID do bloodwork, studies that had placebo groups, and did a much better job of minimizing variables than the average forum member would. I'm not sure why multiple studies are somehow less useful than one or two random peoples' supposed bloodwork. Also, there are many reports ITT of tongkat ali "working."

Yup. If it does it in actual controlled studies, and anecdote is good, I'm all for it. Once I try it, if I feel the same anecdote, that's good enough for me. I'm young enough to not need test boosters to actually raise my test. I take these occasionally during dieting to feel good and motivated.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Yup. If it does it in actual controlled studies, and anecdote is good, I'm all for it. Once I try it, if I feel the same anecdote, that's good enough for me. I'm young enough to not need test boosters to actually raise my test. I take these occasionally during dieting to feel good and motivated.

Exactly. I like tongkat ali primarily for increasing libido. Granted, I am young and have a healthy libido, but a little boost is always nice. Just like with ashwagandha; the research shows it reduces cortisol, and plenty of studies and anecdotes show it helps reduce stress/anxiety, so why do I need bloodwork to see if it's working?

 

[HITFrank]

40 pages but no single bloodwork?? 800 mg of LJ100 is no small expense. It would have been good to see bloodwork by a member on this dosage so one could determine its value for money or even high dosing of any other LJ product

I did my bloodwork and SHBG went up and Testosterone went down (small changes). Not what I was hoping for It was my second run on OL LJ100, before the bloodwork I used 600mg ED for a couple of months and a week before I increased the dosage to 800mg ED.

The first time I used LJ100 I felt more, kicked in after week 3. This time not the same effect even though I started with it Clomid for the first month.

 

[YoungBodyBuil]

I did my bloodwork and SHBG went up and Testosterone went down (small changes). Not what I was hoping for It was my second run on OL LJ100, before the bloodwork I used 600mg ED for a couple of months and a week before I increased the dosage to 800mg ED.

The first time I used LJ100 I felt more, kicked in after week 3. This time not the same effect even though I started with it Clomid for the first month.

clomid is what caused the raise in SHBG and any raise in estrogen could've inhibited the testosterone spike, I always recommend an AI with clomid.. anything that amps test a significant degree should be paired with an AI so that our bodies checks and balances doesn't cause us to just have expensive piss.

 

[HITFrank]

clomid is what caused the raise in SHBG and any raise in estrogen could've inhibited the testosterone spike, I always recommend an AI with clomid.. anything that amps test a significant degree should be paired with an AI so that our bodies checks and balances doesn't cause us to just have expensive piss.

I have not used Clomid for about 1 1/2 -2 months before the bloodwork was done. I have done some bloodwork every year the last 4-5 years. My SHBG and Testosterone has almost not changed in that time. For me that means that all the supplements I have used for my hormones hasn't done anything for me, good or bad!

 

[thebigt]

I have not used Clomid for about 1 1/2 - months before the bloodwork was done. I have done some bloodwork every year the last 4-5 years. My SHBG and Testosterone has almost not changed in that time. For me that means that all the supplements I have used hasn't done anything for me, good or bad!

dang, that really sucks, I truly feel sorry for you!!!!

 

[Danes]

dang, that really sucks, I truly feel sorry for you!!!!

Yea I know HITFrank personaly and he is definitely one i trust 100%.
Very sad LJ100 did nothing for him even at higher doses. But He will try it again to see if it does anything this time

 

[ucheoma]

Very interesting! I wish more people were aware of the power of placebo.. It might affect their purchasing decisions. Makes little rational economic sense to shell out huge sums dosing 800mg LJ100 for placebo effects of libido and mood boost ehich you can get from cheaper alternatives. As i have said elsewhere when people have done bloodwork 95% of the time bloodwork has been nothing to write home about which suggests 'anecdototal benefits are largely placebo. And by the wsy ive had bloodwork on various t boosters which is how i became familiar with power of placebo.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Very interesting! I wish more people were aware of the power of placebo.. It might affect their purchasing decisions. Makes little rational economic sense to shell out huge sums dosing 800mg LJ100 for placebo effects libido and mood boost ehich you can get from cheaper alternatives. As i have said elsewhere when people have done bloodwork 95% of the time bloodwork has been nothing to write home about which suggests 'anecdototal benefits are largely placebo. And by the wsy ive had bloodwork on various t boosters which is how i became familiar with power of placebo.

Actually, modest bloodwork results, combined with the large body of research (much of which is PLACEBO CONTROLLED), suggest that the benefits of tongkat ali can be INDEPENDENT OF increases in testosterone (we all know it's not increasing it to supraphysiological levels). Not every ingredient that gets labeled as a "test booster," or has benefits commonly associated with increased testosterone, works with increasing testosterone being the only, or even primary, MOA. It's an adaptogen, when you consider that, you can better understand how to best use it. I'll say it again, ingredients/supplements can have many benefits, including improving mood/libido, reducing stress/anxiety, and improving body composition and performance via other mechanisms than increasing testosterone. If you are noticing these benefits (which are supported by PLACEO CONTROLLED studies), why does it even matter if you notice a slight bump in already normal testosterone levels? It almost seems that you'd rather have something that increases normal T levels slightly but has no perceivable effects than something that doesn't technically increase T but has many perceivable (both subjective and measurable) effects. Of course, that's ignoring that many of these ingredients do have researching showing improvements in test levels, especially for people with low-T. It really seems like you're arguing over semantics here. I also don't think you need 800mg LJ100, just like you don't need 2g Phosphatidic Acid; some people just like it more and have the budget for it. Some quality products like AlphaMax XT and M-Test have effective doses of tongkat ali (among other ingredients) already, so you don't have to break the bank on tongkat ali, as a massive dose isn't NECESSARY, and some affordable products incorporate it in their formulas.

 

[ma70]

It's an adaptogen, when you consider that, you can better understand how to best use it.

This is such an important fact and should definitely be noted.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

This is such an important fact and should definitely be noted.

I admit that I like using it just for a boost in libido, but adaptogens (tongkat ali, ashwagandha, rhodiola, etc) really shine during periods of some sort of stressor. That's not to say that they aren't great other times, but this study is one of my favorites on tongkat ali:

These results indicate that daily supplementation with tongkat ali root extract improves stress hormone profile and certain mood state parameters, suggesting that this “ancient” remedy may be an effective approach to shielding the body from the detrimental effects of “modern” chronic stress, which may include general day-to-day stress, as well as the stress of dieting, sleep deprivation, and exercise training.

Significant improvements were found in the TA group for Tension (−11%), Anger (−12%), and Confusion (−15%). Stress hormone profile (salivary cortisol and testosterone) was significantly improved by TA supplementation, with reduced cortisol exposure (−16%) and increased testosterone status (+37%).

In conclusion, tongkat ali, used for centuries in traditional medicine systems of Southeast Asia for treating lethargy, low libido, depression, and fatigue, appears to have significant potential for restoring hormone balance (cortisol/testosterone) and improving psychological mood state in humans exposed to various modern stressors, including aging, dieting, and exercise stress.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3669033/

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Libido and mood are artifacts of placebo? :/ These (partly) psychological phenomena are indeed measurable...unless you subscribe to the belief that such things are non-physical. They just can't be reduced to something as crude as a testosterone level.

 

[ucheoma]

Actually none of the 'clinical studies' ive seen have been that compelling. The one ive seen which suggested modest t gains was in middle aged 50+ sample. What data have you to suggest 200mvg or doses in alphamax etc may be more effective than LJ100 800mg? There is no inverse curve im aware of for LJ. I believe youre just speculating. Im pretty certain if 800mg of LJ100 didnt work for this gent neither will dosage in Alphamax.

Once upon a time similar groupthinking applied to DAA which had clinical studies suggesting margins of t increases greater than anything ive seen reported for LJ in clinical studies

 

[ma70]

I admit that I like using it just for a boost in libido, but adaptogens (tongkat ali, ashwagandha, rhodiola, etc) really shine during periods of some sort of stressor. That's not to say that they aren't great other times, but this study is one of my favorites on tongkat ali:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3669033/

Yeah, I use LJ100 when I'm in some pretty ugly calorie deficits. Openly gonna admit I can't "get it up" too easily when I'm a zombie (1000 kcal deficit). LJ100 changed that for me, so count me in!

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Actually none of the 'clinical studies' ive seen have been that compelling. The one ive seen which suggested modest t gains was in middle aged 50+ sample. What data have you to suggest 200mvg or doses in alphamax etc may be more effective than LJ100 800mg? There is no inverse curve im aware of for LJ. I believe youre just speculating. Im pretty certain if 800mg of LJ100 didnt work for this gent neither will dosage in Alphamax.

I just linked one that used 200mg/day LJ100...

Also, simply because something didn't work for YOU, a n=1 anecdote, doesn't mean it's bunk. You could be a non-responder, there could be other variables, etc. If it doesn't work for you, ok, don't buy it, but don't go on some misguided crusade trying to say that it doesn't work period. That's not how it works.


Did you even bother reading my post? Tongkat ali is an adaptogen and can also have benefits independent of simply slightly increasing testosterone levels. Why are you so hung up on it slightly increasing testosterone levels? The adaptogenic effects are pretty well supported in the research.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Once upon a time similar groupthinking applied to DAA

It's nothing like DAA. It's an adaptogen...

I think you need some nootropics to help you understand my posts.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Yeah, I use LJ100 when I'm in some pretty ugly calorie deficits. Openly gonna admit I can't "get it up" too easily when I'm a zombie (1000 kcal deficit). LJ100 changed that for me, so count me in!

Exactly! Also, people should take note of the study mentioning "restoring hormone balance," which is a different beast than simply slightly increasing testosterone levels. The effects on cortisol are also worth noting; the same goes for ashwagandha.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Once upon a time similar groupthinking applied to DAA which had clinical studies suggesting margins of t increases greater than anything ive seen reported for LJ in clinical studies

Since you keep editing your post, I'll say it again. DAA is nothing like tongkat ali. Your entire argument is based on fallacious logic, as it assumes that tongkat ali can only "work" or be useful if it increases testosterone already within already normal levels. What are you basing this assumption on?

Let us look at forskolin, which has research showing it can improve body composition. It also has some evidence showing it can increase testosterone. Are you going to jump to the conclusion that the benefits to body composition are the result of increased testosterone? Are you going to neglect its role as a cAMP activator? There is a big picture to look at here; you can't see the forest for the trees (testosterone ISN'T the entire picture, and it never should have been).