Tongkat Ali LJ100

[ucheoma]

You make me laugh. Youre now packaging LJ as an adaptogen? Fine then lets talk about it in the same mould as ashwagandha not as a t booster. Weve had this conversation before. I could quibble with you even on this shift in product categorisation but wont.Youre doing what you need to do

 

[muscleupcrohn]

You make me laugh. Youre now packaging LJ as an adaptogen? Fine then lets talk about it in the same mould as ashwagandha not as a t booster. Weve had this conversation before. I could quibble with you even on this shift in product categorisation but wont.Youre doing what you need to do

You mean the ashwagandha that has research showing improvements in endurance, muscle mass, and strength (and testosterone)?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4658772/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3545242/

You haven't even addressed any of my points. If you don't want to go around in circles, then maybe address my points/questions:

-I'll say it again, ingredients/supplements can have many benefits, including improving mood/libido, reducing stress/anxiety, and improving body composition and performance via other mechanisms than increasing testosterone. If you are noticing these benefits (which are supported by PLACEO CONTROLLED studies), why does it even matter if you notice a slight bump in already normal testosterone levels? It almost seems that you'd rather have something that increases normal T levels slightly but has no perceivable effects than something that doesn't technically increase T but has many perceivable (both subjective and measurable) effects. Of course, that's ignoring that many of these ingredients do have researching showing improvements in test levels.

-Also, simply because something didn't work for YOU, a n=1 anecdote, doesn't mean it's bunk. You could be a non-responder, there could be other variables, etc. If it doesn't work for you, ok, don't buy it, but don't go on some misguided crusade trying to say that it doesn't work period. That's not how it works.

-Your entire argument is based on fallacious logic, as it assumes that tongkat ali can only "work" or be useful if it increases testosterone already within already normal levels. What are you basing this assumption on?

Let us look at forskolin, which has research showing it can improve body composition. It also has some evidence showing it can increase testosterone. Are you going to jump to the conclusion that the benefits to body composition are the result of increased testosterone? Are you going to neglect its role as a cAMP activator? There is a big picture to look at here; you can't see the forest for the trees (testosterone ISN'T the entire picture, and it never should have been).

 

[ucheoma]

Excerpts from examine.com
Eurycoma (Tongkat Ali, LongJack) is a pro-fertility agent and aphrodisiac that appears to have a large body of evidence supporting this role and some evidence suggesting it may be an anti-estrogen and pro-erectile agent. Lack of evidence for testosterone boosting

...on the testosterone side of things, the literature appears to be needlessly promising. No peer-reviewed evidence currently establishes Eurycoma as a testosterone booster in otherwise healthy persons or rats but many studies are quick to cite presentations by an M.I Tambi claiming these boosts in testosterone. None of Dr.Tambi's research presented in conferences appears to be indexed in Medline and the claims expressed cannot be proven.


Someone show me the research which contradicts the above. As I said if you want an aphrodisiac or adaptogen there are more cost effective sources

And ashwagandha is a separate issue. Plse don't conflate it with discussion regarding LJ and try to draw invalid parallels. However I am deeply sceptical about quite a lot of the studies which have originated from India. Your inference that ash increases LBM is far fetched and most experienced BBers will take this with a grain of salt. The sample were men who had little or no exposure to resistance training for God's sake! this notwithstanding I accept Its main recognised benefit is cortisol reduction. Most knowledgeable people don't buy it primarily for its test boosting effects which again I'm pretty certain is statistically insignificant for most healthy resistance trained males

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Excerpts from examine.com
Eurycoma (Tongkat Ali, LongJack) is a pro-fertility agent and aphrodisiac that appears to have a large body of evidence supporting this role and some evidence suggesting it may be an anti-estrogen and pro-erectile agent. Lack of evidence for testosterone boosting

...on the testosterone side of things, the literature appears to be needlessly promising. No peer-reviewed evidence currently establishes Eurycoma as a testosterone booster in otherwise healthy persons or rats but many studies are quick to cite presentations by an M.I Tambi claiming these boosts in testosterone. None of Dr.Tambi's research presented in conferences appears to be indexed in Medline and the claims expressed cannot be proven.


Someone show me the research which contradicts the above. As I said if you want an aphrodisiac or adaptogen there are more cost effective sources

And ashwagandha is a separate issue. Plse don't conflate it with discussion regarding LJ and try to draw invalid parallels. However I am deeply sceptical about quite a lot of the studies which have originated from India. Your inference that ash increases LBM is far fetched and most experienced BBers will take this with a grain of salt. The sample were men who had little or no exposure to resistance training for God's sake! this notwithstanding I accept Its main recognised benefit is cortisol reduction. Most knowledgeable people don't buy it primarily for its test boosting effects which again I'm pretty certain is statistically insignificant for most healthy resistance trained males

Alright, we're going in circles here, and you still haven't addressed the points I made in my last post. The ashwagandha is so tangential that we may as well not even discuss it here, I agree with you on that.

This is the last post I want to talk about this here, but basically, my question to you boils down to what exactly do you expect to gain from slightly increasing testosterone within the normal range? Does your whole crusade against tongkat ali revolve around the semantics and technicality that it may not increase testosterone levels within the normal range? Even if that is true, and I'm not saying it is, I still argue that tongkat ali has a place in what is traditionally, if somewhat incorrectly, called the "test booster" market, as it can provide benefits commonly associated with increased testosterone. It should also be noted that these benefits may not arise from slight increases in testosterone that is already in the normal range, so the hang-up and overemphasis placed purely on slightly increasing testosterone already in the normal range doesn't make much sense to me really.

I guess what I'm trying to say, and we can all get caught up in arguments, is that I feel that tongkat ali can have "testosterone-booster-like" effects, even if it is perhaps not increasing testosterone levels, and that slightly increasing testosterone levels within the normal range may not inherently provide any tangible or perceivable benefits, so I find it unwise to hang your hat solely on that number. Due to this, tongkat ali can be a useful supplement, either as a standalone or as part of a formula, for people looking at "testosterone boosters." I also argue that the main benefits of quality natural "test boosters" are actually not the result of slight increases in already normal testosterone levels (for example, libido with tongkat ali, and body composition benefits associated with forskolin coming primarily from cAMP activation and not slight increases in testosterone), but other MoAs.

 

[JYD]

So if you take LJ/TAli every day, do you guys ever cycle off?

 

[muscleupcrohn]

So if you take LJ/TAli every day, do you guys ever cycle off?

Yeah, I don't go more than 8 weeks straight of daily use, followed by 4 weeks off.

 

[bb333]

Excerpts from examine.com
Eurycoma (Tongkat Ali, LongJack) is a pro-fertility agent and aphrodisiac that appears to have a large body of evidence supporting this role and some evidence suggesting it may be an anti-estrogen and pro-erectile agent. Lack of evidence for testosterone boosting

...on the testosterone side of things, the literature appears to be needlessly promising. No peer-reviewed evidence currently establishes Eurycoma as a testosterone booster in otherwise healthy persons or rats but many studies are quick to cite presentations by an M.I Tambi claiming these boosts in testosterone. None of Dr.Tambi's research presented in conferences appears to be indexed in Medline and the claims expressed cannot be proven.


Someone show me the research which contradicts the above. As I said if you want an aphrodisiac or adaptogen there are more cost effective sources

And ashwagandha is a separate issue. Plse don't conflate it with discussion regarding LJ and try to draw invalid parallels. However I am deeply sceptical about quite a lot of the studies which have originated from India. Your inference that ash increases LBM is far fetched and most experienced BBers will take this with a grain of salt. The sample were men who had little or no exposure to resistance training for God's sake! this notwithstanding I accept Its main recognised benefit is cortisol reduction. Most knowledgeable people don't buy it primarily for its test boosting effects which again I'm pretty certain is statistically insignificant for most healthy resistance trained males

Can I ask you a question?
According to you, according to your knowledge, there is an extra charge, which really helps to increase testosterone to those who have problems?
Is there something that makes him climb naturally up to homeostasis? course clear!

 

[The_Old_Guy]

I admit that I like using it just for a boost in libido, but adaptogens (tongkat ali, ashwagandha, rhodiola, etc) really shine during periods of some sort of stressor. That's not to say that they aren't great other times, but this study is one of my favorites on tongkat ali:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3669033/

Competing interests

The authors have no directly competing interests, although one (AG) is an employee of a company that manufactures tongkat ali extract, and another (MP) is an employee of a nutrition company that uses tongkat ali as one ingredient in an anti-stress dietary supplement. The other authors (ST and JT) conducted this study as employees of SupplementWatch, which received funding for this trial from Biotropics Malaysia.

This study was funded by Biotropics Malaysia and conducted by SupplementWatch.

Just in case someone doesn't read to the end

As always, and just like Adel Moussa of Suppversity always says - doesn't mean it's a bad study, but you must be aware of it to better make your own personal decisions.

 

[Joshlm69]

If the goal is libido, are you guys still recommending 800mg?

 

[HITFrank]

If the goal is libido, are you guys still recommending 800mg?

800mg (second run) didn't do nothing for libido or bloodwork.

800mg (first run) I felt kicked in after 3 weeks (no placebo, but could been something else), more agression more energy, but no libido increase.

 

[totalpackage]

800mg (second run) didn't do nothing for libido or bloodwork.

800mg (first run) I felt kicked in after 3 weeks (no placebo, but could been something else), more agression more energy, but no libido increase.

I went up this week from 300mg of LJ100 to 400mg and NO LIBIDO boost this week or morning wood so I will
be dropping it back to 300mg next week and see what happens and this will be the start of week 7 on LJ100.

 

[JYD]

800mg (second run) didn't do nothing for libido or bloodwork.

800mg (first run) I felt kicked in after 3 weeks (no placebo, but could been something else), more agression more energy, but no libido increase.

So does it lose its efficacy over time and you end up just spending money?

 

[HITFrank]

So does it lose its efficacy over time and you end up just spending money?

Maybe, not sure.

What do you think Danes ?

I have only used OL LJ100 bought from OL USA, JWsupplements(UK) and Predatornutrition(UK). The first run when I actually think I felt something I got it from OL USA, my second run came from UK suppliers all OL LJ100!

 

[HITFrank]

I went up this week from 300mg of LJ100 to 400mg and NO LIBIDO boost this week or morning wood so I will
be dropping it back to 300mg next week and see what happens and this will be the start of week 7 on LJ100.

If I felt something from LJ100 it was aggression and energy, no libido.

 

[ma70]

200mg LJ100 did great for me, but I'm 27.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

NO...morning wood

While there are many reasons for MW, one of the main ones, believe it or not, is so you don't piss your bed in your sleep. So take waking hydration levels into account when using MW as a gauge for what something is doing.

 

[Danes]

Maybe, not sure.

What do you think Danes ?

I have only used OL LJ100 bought from OL USA, JWsupplements(UK) and Predatornutrition(UK). The first run when I actually think I felt something I got it from OL USA, my second run came from UK suppliers all OL LJ100!

No, i dont think it will lose efficacy so fast. LJ100 Is more like an Adaptogen T booster. It will work as long as your body need it
I do find it very odd that you didnt feel anything from your last run. Your first run gave you agression and energy which is a "normal" effects from.TA

 

[Joshlm69]

5 days in myself and haven't felt anything libido wise yet. I've read many sources that say a little is better than a lot (100mg being more effective than 300 for libido), any merit to that?

 

[totalpackage]

While there are many reasons for MW, one of the main ones, believe it or not, is so you don't piss your bed in your sleep. So take waking hydration levels into account when using MW as a gauge for what something is doing.

I know that but even after taking a piss it just doesn't feel like when I've used other long jacks in the
past. Also no mood difference or aggression in the gym just falling asleep faster and a slight boost
in libido.

 

[totalpackage]

If I felt something from LJ100 it was aggression and energy, no libido.

I'm feeling the opposite no aggression or energy but a slight libido boost and better sleep. I've actually
felt more mood,energy,aggression, and better erections during my many runs with different versions
of Diesel Test Hardcore which for me as always been a pretty solid supplement.

 

[herbalfreak22]

Thanks, great info.

 

[ws65]

So is there a consensus on what brands are effective?
I've used LJ100, Tonvara, and Alivel 3x100...those three were all legit for me...I'd like to know of some other legit sources.
Also, is there a consensus on LJ100/Physta being better than the extracts like Tonvara or Alivel?

 

[619sss]

I ran 2000mg of Physta for 10 days, while I got to day 4 I felt more emotional, but I had strength in the gym, my libido was a going up then going down.

Maybe Al with Tongkat high doses??

 

[JYD]

Per above, I've taken the 200:1 version of the Sumatra Indonesia brand and 600mg always gave me some abdominal fat/bloat. Hence, I've always read TKA should reduce that, but at what point should an AI be taken with it? Hard for me to find that balance.

 

[619sss]

Yeah also at 2000mg I got the
test increase from 430 to 720,
free test 0.120 didn't test before
estrogen from 8 to 16
SHBG 48 didn't test before

At the 3rd day of stopping it I didn't feel emotional.

 

[Dmpesso]

Sorry to bump this old thread but what does it mean if LJ100 gives me the oily skin sometimes? Especially my forehead. I’m assuming it’s doing something to the hormones or DHT since this only happened when I was a teenager. Is this a sign of increased DHT, estrogen, or test ?

Also I’d like to add anyone who wants to increase the strength of LJ100 should try a good milk thistle supplement with it, it makes the liver break it down slower. A small dose hits me much harder when I use milk thistle with it. Good milk thistle though, not some cheap stuff. I use Pure Synergy Super Pure organic Milk thistle. Did some heavy research and supposedly Silymarin acts as an AI so it should be a good combo.

 

[uforce]

Sorry to bump this old thread but what does it mean if LJ100 gives me the oily skin sometimes? Especially my forehead. I’m assuming it’s doing something to the hormones or DHT since this only happened when I was a teenager. Is this a sign of increased DHT, estrogen, or test ?

Also I’d like to add anyone who wants to increase the strength of LJ100 should try a good milk thistle supplement with it, it makes the liver break it down slower. A small dose hits me much harder when I use milk thistle with it. Good milk thistle though, not some cheap stuff. I use Pure Synergy Super Pure organic Milk thistle. Did some heavy research and supposedly Silymarin acts as an AI so it should be a good combo.

this is interesting. i love LJ100. it gets pricey though.

 

[mase1]

I would love to have the chance to take 400mg+ if lj100 just to see how that feels and such. 100-200mg is great though, but hearing some up to 800mg would be fun.

 

[Blender]

Hello guys,

I heard that pasak bumi supplier is selling mostly ashes now. I used it last year and while I definitely felt the libido aspect, I never felt any other benefits. Would you say this LJ100 is now the real deal to buy?

I'm just looking to purchase something that will let me experience the full benefits I've been reading about.

Thx

 

[chainsaw]

I believe it was the OP "danes" had mentioned about running 800mg a day of LJ100, maybe he can chime in

 

[Danes]

I believe it was the OP "danes" had mentioned about running 800mg a day of LJ100, maybe he can chime in

Not needed but totaly fine for those having extra $ and who tolerate it well too

 

[Dmpesso]

Yea I can’t tolerate that much of it. High doses of LJ100 gives me a wrestles anxiety type of energy and an extremely short temper.

 

[thebigt]

Yea I can’t tolerate that much of it. High doses of LJ100 gives me a wrestles anxiety type of energy and an extremely short temper.

try fadogia

 

[Dmpesso]

I’ve heard of that. What’s a good source for that? Doesn’t seem too popular. Lately I just started OL testify with the annacyclus pyrethrum in it. I really like the AP. The recommended serving is 8 caps I’ve only been taking 2-4 and every other day and I still feel the effects. Seems like it has a long half life and besides boosting T it feels like it works on GABA like ashwagandha. It also most definitely boosts nitric oxide. 5 caps was almost too much for me, too much blood flow lol. Deifnitely one of my favorite herbs now, unless they’re sneaking some testosterone or viagra in it because it sure feels like it lol

 

[uforce]

anyone try nutrex’s LJ100? technically it should be the same as any LJ100. But, curious if it actually is...

 

[mase1]

^^^^ Would love to know this answer? Is it same as olympus labs? Might pick some up

 

[Danes]

^^^^ Would love to know this answer? Is it same as olympus labs? Might pick some up

Nutrex Tested contain LJ100 and Boron Citrate.
1capsule = 100mg LJ100 and 50mg Boron Citrate.
60 caps gives you 30 days supply of 200mg LJ100 and 100mg Boron Citrate daily.

Yes, it is same patent pended extract as OL use.

 

[mase1]

So on par with olympus, except additional boron. Correct?

 

[Danes]

So on par with olympus, except additional boron. Correct?

Same ingredient yes.

LJ100 is registered trademark of HP Ingredients. It means I cant just use any kind of Tongkat Ali extract and call it LJ100

Some.companies and studies use Physta®. It is a trademark of Biotropics Malaysia Berha and in US it is known as LJ100™ which is distributed by HP Ingredients.

So Physta and LJ100 is same.

 

[chainsaw]

Nutrex Tested contain LJ100 and Boron Citrate.
1capsule = 100mg LJ100 and 50mg Boron Citrate.
60 caps gives you 30 days supply of 200mg LJ100 and 100mg Boron Citrate daily.

Yes, it is same patent pended extract as OL use.

This actually seems to be the best deal on the Internet for lj100 and boron. Olympus used to have lj100 for like $20 a bottle, I've seen nutrex as cheap as $32

 

[uforce]

This actually seems to be the best deal on the Internet for lj100 and boron. Olympus used to have lj100 for like $20 a bottle, I've seen nutrex as cheap as $32

that’s why i’m asking. i like OL but don’t like their monopoly on this supplement.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

that’s why i’m asking. i like OL but don’t like their monopoly on this supplement.

Source Naturals has it too, for a similar price and number of caps/tabs as OL, but OLs are 100mg each compared to SN’s 80mg each.

 

[chainsaw]

Source Naturals has it too, for a similar price and number of caps/tabs as OL, but OLs are 100mg each compared to SN’s 80mg each.

I don't even know if Olympus even sells it anymore. The deal on nutrex is very good, 100mg a capsule 60 capsules. That was same amount as Olympus

 

[uforce]

ordered 3 bottles of nutrex so we’ll see

 

[alvin1]

ordered 3 bottles of nutrex so we’ll see

Please keep us inform

 

[uforce]

Please keep us inform

will do man

 

[thebigt]

ordered 3 bottles of nutrex so we’ll see

did you use the 20% off code?

 

[uforce]

did you use the 20% off code?

no sir. but i did get them for about the same price.

 

[alvin1]

did you use the 20% off code?

what site has a 20% for nutrex tested?

 

[thebigt]

no sir. but i did get them for about the same price.

I've been thinking about try the current version of vitrex, the og version back in the day was pretty good-curious to compare.