Tongkat Ali 200:1 dosage

[Madevilz]

I'm a bit confused about Tongkat Ali dosages.
I've been using ND 10% at 200mg, the ND 2% at 400-600mg and Optimize T's at 300mg. But then I see products such as MA Test Fix and Nutricost's 200:1 extract with the max dosage at 1000mg. Isn't that too much ? What is the difference between 200:1 and 2% ?

 

[mark031111]

the dosages you mentioned differ based on extract potency. A 200:1 extract means higher dosages because it's more concentrated. A 2% extract has less potency. Follow product labels and consider professional advice when switching products for a balance between effectiveness and safety.

 

[Resolve10]

Here is a quote from
SNS on there Tongkat products that should clarify it a bit more for you.

It's not really that there are any con's with any of the ones that you mentioned because they are all good extracts, its moreso a matter of potency and the effect that it has on the pricing of the products.

Optimize-T:
The Tongkat Ali in Tongkat Ali XT is the Tongkat Ali extract that we use in Optimize-T.

M-Test:
When we first introduced M-Test, this particular extract was not available yet and at the time there was a lot of extreme price fluctuations with Eurycoma/Tongkat products. We had tried out several and we found one that we really liked and worked great in the product. We didn't specify the % extract on the labels for two reasons - we didn't want to make it easier for anyone to copy it and also because the extreme price volatility on it at the time. It's important to put in context that at the time, pretty much no one specified active Eurycomanone content and very very few even specified what ratio extract they used. The thing that people were looking for back then was to see a 500 mg. dose so what we did is that we used what we felt was the absolute best Tongkat Ali extract that we could provide 500 mg. of in the product and have the product sell at a reasonable price.

Fast forward to today's market - M-Test is a great selling product with great feedback and so many people love it that we don't want to make any changes to it. In the general consumer market, if people like something and use it regularly, they are normally very skeptical of any types of changes - which is why we aren't more specific now with the type of extract we use bc if we change the wording to be more specific, we're scared that people will think we changed something about the product. As some have noticed, we've changed label styles slightly and as we run out of existing labels, some of the existing products will be changed over to the new label style and the same reason is why we likely won't even update the label style for M-Test - because we don't want to make anyone thing that we changed anything with the product itself.

I hope all that makes sense.

Test Fix:
I'll explain this and also give some insight into how decision making works sometimes with selecting certain types of ingredients for particular products.

As many people know, Tongkat Ali and Fadogia both became extremely popular when they were mentioned on a particular podcast. This led to a lot of companies that people had never heard of popping up and selling absolute garbage quality Tongkat Ali products and trying to make a quick buck - which absolutely sucks for consumers.

We wanted to do a top quality product with both of these ingredients in there for people that wanted to try them.

We did consider using the extract that's in Tongkat Ali XT in Test Fix, but there were a couple of reasons that we didn't. The main reason is that a lot of the people that were wanting to try Tongkat Ali because of the popularity of it either didn't know anything about it at all and didn't know anything about different types of extracts or they were looking for a 200:1 extract and looking to use 500 mg. once to twice per day. Hence using a 200:1 extract at 500 mg. once to twice per day in Test Fix.

In formulating the product to meet the above criteria, the extract in Tongkat Ali XT wasn't a good candidate because at 1,000 mg. per day, this extract would be way too strong. So what we did was that we used a 200:1 extract like some were looking for and we used what we feel is the absolute best one that we could that would still allow for the dosing that people were looking for.

I hope that makes sense.

More info in the thread here: https://anabolicminds.com/community/threads/sns-tongkat-ali-xt-ultra-potent-tongkat-ali-extract-available-now.331170/#post-6750801

If you have more questions I can try to answer, but SNS has a much better understanding and ability to convey what the differences mean than I can.

 

[Rostam]

I think many companies selling 200:1 extracts are not transparent on their labels. And believe they refer to 200:1 extract based on fresh root not root powder. Which would be equivalent to 20mg 200:1 powder.

This is what I saw reading the label tongkat from pipingrock.

Maybe I’m wrong. I don’t know.

 

[Jeremyk1]

the dosages you mentioned differ based on extract potency. A 200:1 extract means higher dosages because it's more concentrated. A 2% extract has less potency. Follow product labels and consider professional advice when switching products for a balance between effectiveness and safety.

This is completely false. The 200:1 only refers to how much raw material is used to make the final product. The only thing this tells you is that for every gram of finished material, 199 grams of leftover plant matter was discarded. It technically doesn’t tell you anything about the potency. I’m theory, a higher number here should translate to higher potency because what’s left in the finished product should be what you’re looking for. But it doesn’t actually say anything about what compounds are present or in what amount.

If you see a percentage, in the case of Tongkat Ali, usually Eurycomanone as it’s thought to be the primary active in the plant. If you want the benefits of Tongkat, you need Eurycomanone.

So, if you find a 200:1, that’s probably somewhere between .5-2% Eurycomanone, but you don’t actually know. It depends on the starting material and extraction methods. This is why you look for percent based extracts, because they’re tested to contain what you want.

 

[Madevilz]

So what I understand is that there is no way to know what 1000mg of 200:1 is equivalent to if compared to extracts that actually show %.

 

[sns8778]

So what I understand is that there is no way to know what 1000mg of 200:1 is equivalent to if compared to extracts that actually show %.

That is correct because ratio extracts are different than standardized extracts.

@Resolve10 posted this above in a quote (thank you), I'm posting it again with a little added to it at the top:

Here's something very detailed I posted about this in another thread when someone asked about the different types we use in M-Test, Test Fix, and Optimize-T/Tongkat Ali XT.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

It's not really that there are any con's with any of the ones that you mentioned because they are all good extracts, its moreso a matter of potency and the effect that it has on the pricing of the products.

Tongkat Ali XT:
SNS Tongkat Ali contains a specialized Tongkat Ali extract that is standardized to a minimum 2% Eurycomanone. This potent extract is up to 20x more concentrated than many other common Tongkat Ali extract products.

This is a specialized extract that is std. to a minimum 2% Eurycomanone and each batch of raw materials is independently tested by the forestry institute of Malaysia as well as by us.


Optimize-T:
The Tongkat Ali in Tongkat Ali XT is the Tongkat Ali extract that we use in Optimize-T.

M-Test:
When we first introduced M-Test, this particular extract was not available yet and at the time there was a lot of extreme price fluctuations with Eurycoma/Tongkat products. We had tried out several and we found one that we really liked and worked great in the product. We didn't specify the % extract on the labels for two reasons - we didn't want to make it easier for anyone to copy it and also because the extreme price volatility on it at the time. It's important to put in context that at the time, pretty much no one specified active Eurycomanone content and very very few even specified what ratio extract they used. The thing that people were looking for back then was to see a 500 mg. dose so what we did is that we used what we felt was the absolute best Tongkat Ali extract that we could provide 500 mg. of in the product and have the product sell at a reasonable price.

Fast forward to today's market - M-Test is a great selling product with great feedback and so many people love it that we don't want to make any changes to it. In the general consumer market, if people like something and use it regularly, they are normally very skeptical of any types of changes - which is why we aren't more specific now with the type of extract we use bc if we change the wording to be more specific, we're scared that people will think we changed something about the product. As some have noticed, we've changed label styles slightly and as we run out of existing labels, some of the existing products will be changed over to the new label style and the same reason is why we likely won't even update the label style for M-Test - because we don't want to make anyone thing that we changed anything with the product itself.

I hope all that makes sense.

Test Fix:
I'll explain this and also give some insight into how decision making works sometimes with selecting certain types of ingredients for particular products.

As many people know, Tongkat Ali and Fadogia both became extremely popular when they were mentioned on a particular podcast. This led to a lot of companies that people had never heard of popping up and selling absolute garbage quality Tongkat Ali products and trying to make a quick buck - which absolutely sucks for consumers.

We wanted to do a top quality product with both of these ingredients in there for people that wanted to try them.

We did consider using the extract that's in Tongkat Ali XT in Test Fix, but there were a couple of reasons that we didn't. The main reason is that a lot of the people that were wanting to try Tongkat Ali because of the popularity of it either didn't know anything about it at all and didn't know anything about different types of extracts or they were looking for a 200:1 extract and looking to use 500 mg. once to twice per day. Hence using a 200:1 extract at 500 mg. once to twice per day in Test Fix.

In formulating the product to meet the above criteria, the extract in Tongkat Ali XT wasn't a good candidate because at 1,000 mg. per day, this extract would be way too strong. So what we did was that we used a 200:1 extract like some were looking for and we used what we feel is the absolute best one that we could that would still allow for the dosing that people were looking for.

I hope that makes sense.

 

[sns8778]

Here is a copy and paste of another of my posts that contains a lot of information on this subject:

SNS Tongkat Ali contains a specialized Tongkat Ali extract that is standardized to a minimum 2% Eurycomanone. This potent extract is up to 20x more concentrated than many other common Tongkat Ali extract products.

What is Tongkat Ali/Eurycoma Longifolia?
Tongkat Ali (also known as Eurycoma Longifolia and Long Jack) is a popular herb that typically grows in countries within Southeast Asia and has been used for centuries for a wide range of benefits including increased libido & vitality, improved sense of well-being, increased testosterone levels, and much more.

What is Eurycomanone?
Eurycomanone is the active compound found in the roots of Tongkat Ali/Eurycoma Longifolia that has been shown to increase the amount of total testosterone and free testosterone available in the bloodstream. At higher concentrations, Eurycomanone may also act as a phosphodiesterase type 5 (PDE5) inhibitor and support improved erection quality.

Eurycomanone content ranges for high-quality extracts start at .5% with the upper attainable limits being around 2.7%. Bionutricia® Tongkat Ali contains a minimum of 2% Eurycomanone and as high as 3% Eurycomanone and each batch of raw materials is tested by the Forest Research Institute of Malaysia.

Simply put – Eurycomanone is what makes Tongkat Ali work for testosterone, libido, & erection quality support.

What makes Bionutricia® Tongkat Ali Extract so Special?
Bionutricia® Tongkat Ali extract contains a minimum of 2% Eurycomanone and as high as 3% Eurycomanone and each batch of raw materials is tested by the Forest Research Institute of Malaysia (FRIM) to ensure the levels of several key active ingredients, primarily the Eurycomanone of the extract.

At these strengths, standardized Tongkat Ali can be used as a natural testosterone booster and libido enhancer with high dosages also being used as a PDE5 inhibitor to support improved erection quality.

In addition to its high Eurycomanone percentage, Bionutricia® Tongkat Ali extract also contains 30 – 38% Glycosaponins, 28 – 32% Polysaccharides, and 18 – 24% Protein – a truly fully disclosed extract.

Also, Bionutricia® Tongkat Ali extract is extracted using ultrasonic hot water extraction to obtain the water-soluble active ingredients (Eurycomanone, polysaccharides, protein, Glycosaponins) and doesn’t use any harsh solvents or chemicals that some brands use in order to try to achieve higher extract ratios while cutting costs.

How does Eurycomanone Boost Testosterone Levels?
Standardized Tongkat Ali, in this case standardized specifically for Eurycomanone has been shown to improve energy and libido and increase natural and free testosterone levels through stimulating the Leydig cells, while also acting to increase ‘free’ testosterone by unbinding it from the inactivating hormone, SHBG. By lowering SHBG, this ultimately increases the amount of bioavailable testosterone that your body can utilize.

Standardized Tongkat Ali/Eurycomanone has also been shown to inhibit aromatase, which is responsible for converting testosterone into estrogen. High serum levels of estrogen can be problematic in males for many reasons, including that high serum levels of estrogen may trick the brain into thinking that enough testosterone is being produced, thereby slowing the natural production of testosterone.

In addition, it has also been shown to help reduce cortisol levels. In one study, a 200 mg. dose for 4 weeks was shown to reduce cortisol levels by 16%. Reducing cortisol levels may help support the body against the detrimental effects of chronic stress, resulting in lower tension, anger, irritability, and improved sense of well-being. It may also help support optimal immune function.

How long does it take to feel the effects of Bionutricia® Tongkat Ali Extract?
High dosages of Bionutricia® Tongkat Ali may have dramatic effects on libido in as little as 1 to 3 days while lower dosages may take 1 to 2 weeks to notice the effect.

For those looking for increased testosterone levels and other benefits, Bionutricia® Tongkat Ali Extract should be used continuously for best results.

SNS Tongkat Ali XT contains 300 mg. per capsule of the ultra-potent Bionutricia® extract, which is already considered a high dose and is as much as many people may need. Other individuals may wish to take 2 capsules per day or take two capsules per day for the first week to two weeks and then use one capsule per day thereafter.