Yah 2400 is about my manteinance too... when I wanted to really shred up I went 2700-2900 adn 1600-1900 depending on activity.. now I have introduced Epi-v which shreds me unbelievably so I have to up my cals to 2900-3200 1900-2200 again depending on other activity...
I'll Keep that in mind...its very easy for me to under eat and I guess I assume (perhaps wrongfully) that "less is more." I swear I've read Berkhan and Pilon state that catabolism doesn't really start until after about 36 hours of straight fasting, and event then not at a crazy rate. If this is true and you're over feeding or at least eating to maintenance every other day, my thought is that you should be fine. Or maybe that's just what I hope, since I tend to under eat quite a bit.
This brings up a good question. I like to switch between 3 and 4 day splits. If you were doing a 4-day split, would you all have a 4th day of high-carb/re-feed? Today was supposed to be an off day for me, but I threw in an extra heavy weight session. I've kept the day calorically as an off-day (~1500), but added a bit more carbs to my post workout meal. Any thoughts?
Mine has 5 calories per 5 gram scoop and I don't count it. I take it right after my workout, around 7, and don't break my fast until at least 12. I train completely fasted.
Bcaas is breaking that fast in itself big boy!
I use bcaas all the time, they have no negative effect.
Martin says anything under 50 calories doesn't break the fast.
Lean gains which is typically what people are following on here reccomends that bcaas should be taken pw during fasted training and does not break the fast
I don't recall seeing studies on BCAAs and insulin response, but I have read a lot of them on insulin release and spikes and I can't see 10g of BCAA's being that big of a deal.
Its not that big of a deal, but it does impact things. Go back a few pages and read what Kleen (the creator of this thread)said about BCAAs and it will make more sense. The insulin release from BCAAs is short but while it is occurring you cannot burn fat effectively like you can without them. This us why they aren't advised on cardio or rest days. Purely around weight training only
If I get hungry during my fast window, I drink hot green tea. That kills my appetite for at least an hour. I think it's more the hot liquid than it is the tea, because cold tea doesn't do the same thing.
So, you plan on eating a meal at 5 pm and then again at 11pm, before bed? I don't really see how that's a true fast, at least not from a hormonal standpoint. Don't get me wrong, if it got you to 4% BF, it obviously helps you manage calories and create a deficit, but IF is about more than creating a deficit.
I'm going with you on this one, bro...if I get my min protein in and don't feel like eating more, I'm done for the day. It gives me more wiggle room for re-feeds. To me, the most important thing is that I'm cycling my carbs in around workouts, keeping them low on off days, and hitting my protein goals. While I keep track of calories each day, I'm more concerned with my weekly goal. If I have "rollover calories" lying around on Sunday, I know I can eat real big and still come in at my targeted deficit. Likewise, if I go nuts one night and polish off my kids' dinners as well as mine, I make up for it here and there throughout the week to hit my weekly calorie goal. Its worked well thus far.
100-200mg 5-HTP kills my hunger and puts me in a good mood all day.
That's basically what I've been doing-keep working on making it work a step at a time. I feel better adjusting my lifestyle ad compared to forcing a hard change only to see it be temporary
What time do you wake up/work out?
I wake at 7 and work out at 530.
That's fine
So, from 11-7 you already have 8 hours without food...if you just tack on a few hours before bed and a few hours after bed you'll be at 16 in no time. If you work out at 5:30 and have your biggest meal from 7-8 and stop eating at 8, you'll have 11 hours in by your 7am wake up time.
Years ago when I did IF I was eating sugar whenever I felt like it and was super-lean. Having jumped back on about a month ago, I've had sugar to get my carbs in and I've dropped a considerable amount of BF in that time. If I need carbs, I'll try to get as many so-called clean carbs in as possible, but there's a limit to how much I can actually eat - so I'll opt for juice, ice cream, chocolate, etc...whatever I can eat that fits my macros.
Yah if you really need to add higher density cal foods to make the numbers work... so be it. I used frozen yogurt and not that I am off dairy I will use a lot of fruit. I will add dates if it's too much volume but I have a realy big appetite, I like volume and the big eat
With your current set up you don't actually look to have any need for the BCAA's I don't see any fasted training. If you get them anyway I would use them intra workout.Hi AM! Noobie here and I have a few questions if someone wouldn't mind answering them.
I'm training for fat loss, usually in the evening (5-6 pm), so I'm eating below maintenance.
I wake up around 6 a.m. and since I train in the evening, is it recommended that I train fasted or eat a small meal as a pre-wo while I wait for my BCAA to arrive?
What would a pre-wo meal consist of?
Is this the schedule that I follow? And does the same eating routine apply for cardio/HIIT days?
Sample:
12-1 PM or around lunch/noon: Meal one. Approximately 20-25% of daily total calorie intake.
4-5 PM: Pre-workout meal. Roughly equal to the first meal.
8-9 PM: Post-workout meal (largest meal).
No muscle catabolism doesn't really even start until after 36 hours and closer to the 40-48 marker. The fast actually protects the muscles from catabolism. Now where the problem comes in for a case for catabolism is once you eat. If you eat a tiny meal then wait to eat for a few hours then another tiny meal, and then another one later you will end up creating a hormonal cycle that will induce what the body sees as stress so it will begin to release cortisol. You are adding in food which changes the hormonal set up but the food is not sufficient to meet the needs. The body is expecting the big meal and doesn't get it, stress signal sent = cortisol dump. However if you simply extend the fast in order to cut calories instead of taking in tiny meals you continue burning fat unabated and your muscle tissue is still being protected by the glucagon like peptide. Also fat burning increases quite a bit after the 16-18th hour, metabolism actually speeds up at this point in order to help us forage or hunt during the fast. The reason Martin chose 16 hours was the he felt you fasted long enough to get the benefits from fasting but had an eating window large enough to consume the fats. That and to Martin the fast that visceral fat is the type of fat that the increase in metabolism burns. He is not interested in that so much but I carry a lot of visceral fat so the idea of extending my fast and burning more fat at a higher accelerated pace is a much more appealing option to me.
Doing 4 build days in a week is not going to be a problem unless you are trying to cut down extremely fast then more burn days will be better. You can still lean up eating big 4 days a week.
You can snack on celery, or broccoli. You can also just take a serving of fiber to make you feel like you have eaten. Fiber pills or the sugar free metamucil knock off will work. Honestly though just suck it up for 3-4 days and you will be good to go. Doesn't take long for the body to make the adjustment.
If you are only eating from 5-11 you are already fasting 18 hours so you are doing fine.
I agree, low fat pop tarts and candied yams are a big part of my carb sources. Sherbet too, don't get me wrong I get my bagels and other stuff in too but when trying to hit higher carbs these types of choices make it easy. One 15 oz can of candied yams is anywhere between 160-220 grams of carbs depending on the brand. Oh yeah baby! It digests quickly too so no major issues there.Yah if you really need to add higher density cal foods to make the numbers work... so be it. I used frozen yogurt and not that I am off dairy I will use a lot of fruit. I will add dates if it's too much volume but I have a realy big appetite, I like volume and the big eat
Well if you followed the 8 hour window you would be eating up until 2:30, if there is not any other reason why you arent going to do it I think I might bump the beginning of your window to 8:30 then eat until 4:30 that way you could smash down say 100 grams protein and carbs post workout. My other recommendation would be to have your window the exact same way you do now but have a shake with 100g of both protein and carbs right after then fast until 6:30 the next morning.
If I want to train fasted later in the evening (5-6 pm, with BCAA), how would the feeding window be set up?
Oh yeah I came up with that one the other day. I am always putting honey and cinnamon on my sweet potatoes and decide I could get a whole lot more carbs in just getting the candied yams then all I need is an opener and a microwave if I want them hot. Of course i may pick up some marshmallow cream and toss it in for good measure during one of my bigger carb ups.
You would just move your feeding window to right after your workout until you go to bed that night. The before your workout take 10 grams of aminos and then eat a big meal right after you train and keep eating until you get all your caloric requirements in. Whether that be a 4 hour period or 6 hour or whatever. Now for something a little more similar to the training fasted might be to have your window from say 1-9pm and have a protein only meal or two before you lift then have 1 huge meal of all of you carbs and the rest of your protein and fats in it. That way you never supply glycogen to the muscle but also can get your calories in a little more manageably because you get some of them out of the way without hindering the insulin response of the post workout carb meal later.
Your muscles are not wasting away. I found this article and it does a good job of explaining it in simple terms.
Yep, 2pm, 5pm and 10pm would work well. Anytime within the eating window really. My experience with this eating protocol is not sweat to much as to when I'm eating during the window, just aim for the macros and hit the 'burn' days hard. My post workout meal today was 6 chicken tacos, 4 ice cream cones and two coffees. And I'm just a little guy
Really? But wouldn't drinking casein at the end of my eating window contradict the fast since it's a slow digesting protein?
No and no. You won't get the benefits of doing it 3x a week, and the creamer probably isn't enough calories to matter