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The Lean Gains / IF learning and Discussion Log

MrKleen73 said:
Frank,

I wonder I know you could have probably gained more weight probably even more muscle but do you think you would have maintained the extra you gained during the following cut or would you take a longer time to cut down instead of the yoyo. I mean would you think to eat harder and heavier for say 6-8 months then spend the same amount of time getting back to you current body fat?
My idea is more to implement mini diets, never getting above 13-15%bf. Bulk(but not eat like ****, all out) for a period of say 8-10 weeks, and depending on fat gain, diet hard for 3-4weeks, and repeat.

The problem is when you are a natural fatty, trying to stay too lean, becomes counter productive. I feel like a lot of the people who are genuinely BIG have to get fat atleast one good time, to really accumulate some mass, so I think it may just be something I have to try. However I am not going to let it get out of control. If I can stay around 12% even, that would be great.

I hold muscle fairly well when dieting, even on low calories, so I guess that is one benefit of a **** metabolism..haha
I kind of think for the most part you probably didn't leave much on the table when you compare the entire cycle of gaining then cutting back down.
You may be right. However my mental issue with IF is coming less from the ability to gain, and gain fast as it is in optimizing gains. I just wonder if a meal in the morning, cutting the fast short, might be beneficial. Just looking at things objectively, Layne's approach is basically nothing more then adding that morning meal, compared to what I am doing already.

As you know I am one to experiment. 14 months ago if you told me I would be eating 3 meals a day, let alone fasting I would have told you, you were nuts.. So maybe my next logical experiment is with a 4-5hr meal timing, 4 meals a day.


Of course it really all depends on what the goals were. I think if in the long term you are really trying to gain the most mass possible over a longer period of time then obviously fasting shorter periods may allow for more calories to be consumed and to be consumed while maintaining more comfort. IE not stretching you stomach out and being so full you feel ill. If also adding some fat during that time was not a concern, then it would be ewasier to do so. However in that sense to keep it by switching to a recomp strategy with IF and dropping the fat gained in the same or only slightly shorter amount of time you took to gain it then you may realize a lot more size gain when it is all said and done. By that I mean Say you eat big for 6-8 month, then recomp for say 6 months you may very well keep more of it then you gain Yet I don't know if the difference would be worthwhile to say give up the cuts you love especially if making gains as you are now and looking great almost all the time. I am curious and think that you would be a great person to test the theory since you are already meticulous.

I was thinking about doing the 4 meal thing, and on the "mini" diet go right back into my IF diet for a 4week blast. I do feel anytime I recomp/diet, this style suits me very well, and I have it down to where it is VERY easy for me to use it and make quick progress.

I also think from a health standard you are probably healthier with current eating strategies, I could be wrong those are just my thoughts. More important to me than size is health quality of life and staying what I consider aesthetic. I was borderline diabetic before IF, even eating lower carb, IE under 150 a day, I now have PERFECT fasting blood sugar levels. Remarkable the Doc said. My lipids and everything are picture perfect. That was when I was not watching my food intake for a while eating a lot more carbs than usual and actually gaining a little fat. So to me at 200 lbs I really don't worry too much about it anymore. I will probably drop to between 190-195 and just try to live in that area. That will be a remarkably lean physique on my 5'8 frame. Not as wow as yours but I am a pretty happy man

That is awesome man, glad to hear you are in tip top shape. Without health, we have nothing!

And you are a damn animal man, it is funny how we always are our hardest critics because I see your pics and am always amazed with the mass, and leanness you possess.

I am going for bloodwork myself in the next week or two, so I am interested on how all that comes back. I can say I test my BS from time to time, and it is always VERY good
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Since I am in sort of a maintenance phase right now, just trying to get through the holidays, I have some ideas I am going to be implementing. I will delve into it a bit more in a few weeks.


 
I hate to get crude about this... because that is an awesome looking Tat and all, but from a woman's stand point, can you imagine her not wanting to be in the position of looking at that while doing something that... well let's just say all men enjoy???
 
ScottyDoc said:
I hate to get crude about this... because that is an awesome looking Tat and all, but from a woman's stand point, can you imagine her not wanting to be in the position of looking at that while doing something that... well let's just say all men enjoy???
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my woman loves me so no worries there...

but in getting this that was my thought
 
ScottyDoc said:
I hate to get crude about this... because that is an awesome looking Tat and all, but from a woman's stand point, can you imagine her not wanting to be in the position of looking at that while doing something that... well let's just say all men enjoy???
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Lol eyes closed or blindfold! ;)
 
Frank Reynolds said:
Since I am in sort of a maintenance phase right now, just trying to get through the holidays, I have some ideas I am going to be implementing. I will delve into it a bit more in a few weeks.
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Well as you already know I am all about the palying with things. I actually have every intention of doing something along these line on my next push for a little improvement in size.

Burn Days - I will eat between 2-8PM I will start eating when I feel ready to eat after 2:00 but basically skipping one meal for enjoyment sake on the other two meals. Probably somewhere aroun 3:00 PM.

Build Days Will be semi fasted training 4:30-6:00, I will have pre and intra work out luecine heavy aminos. Post workout -About 6:30 AM I will have an amino / protein shake with some fast absorbing carbs like WMS. I will eat my first whole food meal about 2 hours post workout and then eat every 4 hours or so getting in about 3 more meals that day ending with my last meal when I get home from work with the family, and my evening protein source around 8:00-8:30 That will end up being about 14 hours of feeding in for the day on Build days. I am still playing with the macros in my head, however tapering the carbs is more than likely, or completely the opposite and back loading the carbs by not having any after the post workout shake until dinner.

ssbackwards said:
this is for KLEEEN!!!! remember i was asking bout your tatt....

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I do, that is sick man. Which part do you think hurt the worst out of it. I had a few spots lower on the abdomen that did but I still think the stuff above my belly button was the worst.
 
MrKleen73 said:
Well as you already know I am all about the palying with things. I actually have every intention of doing something along these line on my next push for a little improvement in size.

Burn Days - I will eat between 2-8PM I will start eating when I feel ready to eat after 2:00 but basically skipping one meal for enjoyment sake on the other two meals. Probably somewhere aroun 3:00 PM.

Build Days Will be semi fasted training 4:30-6:00, I will have pre and intra work out luecine heavy aminos. Post workout -About 6:30 AM I will have an amino / protein shake with some fast absorbing carbs like WMS. I will eat my first whole food meal about 2 hours post workout and then eat every 4 hours or so getting in about 3 more meals that day ending with my last meal when I get home from work with the family, and my evening protein source around 8:00-8:30 That will end up being about 14 hours of feeding in for the day on Build days. I am still playing with the macros in my head, however tapering the carbs is more than likely, or completely the opposite and back loading the carbs by not having any after the post workout shake until dinner.
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Sounds like a good place to start experimenting! There are some definite similarities to what I am doing right now, in regards to build days. Personally in regards to carbs, I don't think it is going to matter. I would put them where ever you will enjoy them more!

Keep us posted!
 
Frank Reynolds said:
Personally in regards to carbs, I don't think it is going to matter. I would put them where ever you will enjoy them more!
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In support of your post...

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Enjoy ;)
 
ScottyDoc said:
I hate to get crude about this... because that is an awesome looking Tat and all, but from a woman's stand point, can you imagine her not wanting to be in the position of looking at that while doing something that... well let's just say all men enjoy???
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LOL...
 
I recently, almost two weeks ago, started LG back up again after being off for several months. I was doing it fine just like my last time doing it, however this time around I've noticed I have very irritable bowels and gas, especially after I went off the diet this past weekend. What could be the cause of this?
 
I went from eating 3x in the 8hr window to 2x and I'm loving it. Bigger more satisfying meals than ever and it hasn't had any negative effects on my hunger etc. I'm doing around 800-900 per meal on burn days and build days are about 1200 at the first meal and 1800-2000 on the second meal. Not exactly 20% each way but it's working well for me so far. LG rocks!
 
houstontexas said:
I went from eating 3x in the 8hr window to 2x and I'm loving it. Bigger more satisfying meals than ever and it hasn't had any negative effects on my hunger etc. I'm doing around 800-900 per meal on burn days and build days are about 1200 at the first meal and 1800-2000 on the second meal. Not exactly 20% each way but it's working well for me so far. LG rocks!
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Ive been doing the 2 meals per day also on build and burn days. I love the larger meals also, and its the best way for me to enjoy my meals
 
RickRock13 said:
Ive been doing the 2 meals per day also on build and burn days. I love the larger meals also, and its the best way for me to enjoy my meals
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i been doin it this way for a while,

now i space meals 10-12 hours apart to get 2 fasting windows, works so much better.
 
ssbackwards said:
i been doin it this way for a while,

now i space meals 10-12 hours apart to get 2 fasting windows, works so much better.
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So have you seen any differences with that schedule other than it just working better for you? Increased fat loss, less hunger, etc. Anything worth noting besides the convenience factor we all seem to be after? It definitely sounds interesting.
 
Lets say I decide to have something super awesome like a pop tart on my build day. Am I better off having it directly post wo or after my huge meal? Or does it even really matter enough to worry about?
 
I personally build macros for meals and hit them. It would likely be post wo for me as that is when I have most of my carbs. It would depend on your diet/macros.

I eat a poptart from time to time if I have carbs to spare.

Sugar cookie poptarts are bomb lol
 
Frank Reynolds said:
I personally build macros for meals and hit them. It would likely be post wo for me as that is when I have most of my carbs. It would depend on your diet/macros.

I eat a poptart from time to time if I have carbs to spare.

Sugar cookie poptarts are bomb lol
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**** that noise...

old school blueberry poptart without the frosting, toasted with burnt corners.

THE SHIZNIT right there.
 
Sugar cookie is damn good. I never had them until a few days ago(I think they are a holiday flavor), and was amazed with how delicious they were.

And unfrosted is just blasphemy, I could never go that route..:)

You ever try the blueberry muffin ones? I hear they are good.
 
hot fudge sundae!!!! the best because they are godo hoever u want them....plain, toasted or my favorite by far........... from the freezer!!!!
 
mkretz said:
hot fudge sundae!!!! the best because they are godo hoever u want them....plain, toasted or my favorite by far........... from the freezer!!!!
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I almost grabbed them last week..hah Might have to make them my choice for this week. You better not let me down!

Have you tried the sugar cookie?
 
I haven't tried the sugar cookie yet. I've also never tried them out of the freezer. Are we talking completely frozen or just chilled for a while? I bought 4 16pk boxes at walmart last week! I haven't cracked one open yet tho. Last night I planned on it but my bowl of pasta almost got a KO on me so I had to pass on the pop tart.
 
Frank Reynolds said:
Sugar cookie is damn good. I never had them until a few days ago(I think they are a holiday flavor), and was amazed with how delicious they were.

And unfrosted is just blasphemy, I could never go that route..:)

You ever try the blueberry muffin ones? I hear they are good.
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I pretty much avoid stuff like pop tarts...haven't had any in years, but I might have to give the sugar cookie ones a go. Sugar cookies in general are my kryptonite!
 
Poptarts are anabolic.. Avoid them, and you avoid muscles.

2:10
[video=youtube;qL1jy0D9wxQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpag e&v=qL1jy0D9wxQ#t=132s[/video]

SS.. At 4:35 he touches on your "frosting free poptart"..lol
 
RickRock13 said:
I pretty much avoid stuff like pop tarts...haven't had any in years, but I might have to give the sugar cookie ones a go. Sugar cookies in general are my kryptonite!
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My Kryptonite is my Mom's Homemade Chocolate Chip Oatmeal Cookies... OMG... So Smurfing good!!!
 
Frank Reynolds said:
Poptarts are anabolic.. Avoid them, and you avoid muscles.

2:10
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SS.. At 4:35 he touches on your "frosting free poptart"..lol
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That is my new motivation to have my pop tarts! Frosting FTW!
 
yea get the hot fudge sundae ones, let them chill in the freezer for a while, now that is a dessert! but the best part is they are amazing toasted and plain too...but form the feezer is a whole new devil, just wait antd see......sugar cookie does sound amazing though!
 
mkretz said:
yea get the hot fudge sundae ones, let them chill in the freezer for a while, now that is a dessert! but the best part is they are amazing toasted and plain too...but form the feezer is a whole new devil, just wait antd see......sugar cookie does sound amazing though!
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Ok. I will grab a box with my sugar cookie run. Going to stock up before they disappear.
 
My main goal is to continue shedding fat, but also move into more of a muscle building state by bumping build day calories up. When on anabolics, which should help stave off catabolism, how low could one realistically drop calories on burn days to keep fat loss high while still having generous amounts of calories on build days?
 
houstontexas said:
My main goal is to continue shedding fat, but also move into more of a muscle building state by bumping build day calories up. When on anabolics, which should help stave off catabolism, how low could one realistically drop calories on burn days to keep fat loss high while still having generous amounts of calories on build days?
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I'm at around 1500-1800 cal low carb then cycling in a 2500 cal high carb re feed every fourth day eating between 1330hr and 2130hr. Seems to be shredding me up nicely. Everybody is different though bro. You may need to do a little trial and error to find the sweet spot!! Oh weighing about 204 @ 8.3% BF.
 
TurningGreen said:
I'm at around 1500-1800 cal low carb then cycling in a 2500 cal high carb re feed every fourth day eating between 1330hr and 2130hr. Seems to be shredding me up nicely. Everybody is different though bro. You may need to do a little trial and error to find the sweet spot!! Oh weighing about 204 @ 8.3% BF.
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I know its not the best comparison, but the single shot is me pre-LG, and the double pose is well...yesterday LOL I have been following LG for roughly 6 months now, but I have tweaked my protocol many times to find my sweet spot!!

I was around 213 @ 12% BF in the pre-LG, and like I said Im about 204 @ 8.3% now
 
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These were Taken last Friday, probably a better comparison for the pre-LG shot.
 
TurningGreen said:
I'm at around 1500-1800 cal low carb then cycling in a 2500 cal high carb re feed every fourth day eating between 1330hr and 2130hr. Seems to be shredding me up nicely. Everybody is different though bro. You may need to do a little trial and error to find the sweet spot!! Oh weighing about 204 @ 8.3% BF.
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Frank Reynolds said:
Like green said everyone is different.
Do you tend to hold muscle well?
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@ Green That's great man. I wish I was that lean.
@ Frank I hold it well enough I guess. I do feel I've taken advantage of the high carb mentality for build days and it will slow my fat loss. I could probably get away with 2500 calories on build days if I really want to shred up faster. They are just so enjoyable at 3000 lol
 
houstontexas said:
@ Green That's great man. I wish I was that lean.
@ Frank I hold it well enough I guess. I do feel I've taken advantage of the high carb mentality for build days and it will slow my fat loss. I could probably get away with 2500 calories on build days if I really want to shred up faster. They are just so enjoyable at 3000 lol
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Yeah man, I was hitting that 3000cal mark too at higher carbs...and loving it! Unfortunately my body kicked into bulk mode and I started to gain weight (not hard for me to do) even on clean cals. With my main goal being recomp I had some tweaking to do LOL. Man this carbs are yum ha!
 
Good work TG .

I actually prefer overall lower than calories and massive refeed lol.

I am like you and pick up fat easily if calories get away from me. Even at 2400/1700 I am slowly getting fatter heh
 
TurningGreen said:
Yeah man, I was hitting that 3000cal mark too at higher carbs...and loving it! Unfortunately my body kicked into bulk mode and I started to gain weight (not hard for me to do) even on clean cals. With my main goal being recomp I had some tweaking to do LOL. Man this carbs are yum ha!
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Ya I've been cutting for the most part for longer than I can even remember. These high carb days are such a treat even when it's all clean. That is why I was searching for the lowest calories possible on burn days lol. I definitely like the change of pace LG has given me over the day in and day out grind the usual cutting put me through.
 
Frank Reynolds said:
Good work TG .

I actually prefer overall lower than calories and massive refeed lol.

I am like you and pick up fat easily if calories get away from me. Even at 2400/1700 I am slowly getting fatter heh
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I'm actually using the 2400/1700 cal range right now. I add in a little LISS cardio tho.

By far my biggest problem is weekends, especially around the holidays. Sundays I have a little refeed day around 3000 calories. I eat 4 meals this day and don't follow my IF diet. Ever since getting married in August and coming back, my weekends have been hit or miss. 3,000 cal goal turns into 5,000-6,000 and I get fat easily so it makes for a bad combo! :/

I've made it my goal to hit all my weekly macros and cal range and knock off the BS for now. Hard to do for me around the holidays but it has to happen!
 
Start of the year will be doing my first test E only cycle kick started with 3 weeks of low dose SuperDrol. I have been on LG for the past 9 weeks and have seen incredible results while cutting. I am definitely going to stick with the LG protocol. My debate is whether or not I should move to 4 build days on test E which will of course equal more calories while on cycle. I still plan to do cardio on burn days. I just don't want to lose what abs I have uncovered.
 
man I am like Green and Frank I gain on an average of 2200 with no cardio. So according to all the charts and formulas that would put my Resting Metabolism at about 1600 lol Lucky me. I wont lose my muscle quickly though. Eating better bring protein up while trying to lean up slowly has actually added some body weight while leaning me a bit. Loving it!!!


Now for doing my job here too....


Next EndoSurge/Combustion Promo with in the promo!!!!

Sexiest Workout Picture!

At This Link
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/company-promotions/187046-bps-promo-all-23.html#post3130083

Entries close at POST 600, sorry had to make it a little more just because I KNOW THESE ARE GONNA BE HOT!!!!!!

Something like this!

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TurningGreen said:
<img src="http://anabolicminds.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=49303"/><img src="http://anabolicminds.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=49304"/>

I know its not the best comparison, but the single shot is me pre-LG, and the double pose is well...yesterday LOL I have been following LG for roughly 6 months now, but I have tweaked my protocol many times to find my sweet spot!!

I was around 213 @ 12% BF in the pre-LG, and like I said Im about 204 @ 8.3% now
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Green....that is damn impressive bro! You look incredible, and you are leaner than me now. Well done!
 
RickRock13 said:
Green....that is damn impressive bro! You look incredible, and you are leaner than me now. Well done!
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Thanks RR. I still have some ab work to do to get to RR STATUS, but I'm very confidant in what I am doing right now. Training, calories, and macros are all I'm check so it's just fighting the day to day battle of keeping myself in check. I appreciate the complement brotha!!
 
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