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The Lean Gains / IF learning and Discussion Log

Bolanrox said:
trick your body make it work for you!
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More like allowing your body to work as it should no tricks involved. We tricked our bodies when we became civilized learned to irrigate and farm, food was no longer sparse at times, and people often out too regularly all of the sudden. What other animal do we know other than domesticated ones that eat regularly with no need to hunt or forage?
 
MrKleen73 said:
More like allowing your body to work as it should no tricks involved. We tricked our bodies when we became civilized learned to irrigate and farm, food was no longer sparse at times, and people often out too regularly all of the sudden. What other animal do we know other than domesticated ones that eat regularly with no need to hunt or forage?
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That is a great way of putting it right there! ;)
 
MrKleen73 said:
More like allowing your body to work as it should no tricks involved. We tricked our bodies when we became civilized learned to irrigate and farm, food was no longer sparse at times, and people often out too regularly all of the sudden. What other animal do we know other than domesticated ones that eat regularly with no need to hunt or forage?
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So... a good way for me to train and get lean would be to dislocate myself in the woods for a few months with only a knife and spear and a way to make fire to cook of course and just hunt and gather food all day long? I can call it, "The Hunter's Diet"
 
ScottyDoc said:
So... a good way for me to train and get lean would be to dislocate myself in the woods for a few months with only a knife and spear and a way to make fire to cook of course and just hunt and gather food all day long? I can call it, "The Hunter's Diet"
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LOL Good idea if this physique is your goal... :stups:

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I was thinking more of Manny Puig...

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MrKleen73 said:
More like allowing your body to work as it should no tricks involved. We tricked our bodies when we became civilized learned to irrigate and farm, food was no longer sparse at times, and people often out too regularly all of the sudden. What other animal do we know other than domesticated ones that eat regularly with no need to hunt or forage?
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Fortunatley I'm still not civilized.... :)
 
Seeing that this thread has well over 1000 posts and Im far too impatient to read them all Im gonna ask a kind of dumb question that Im sure has already been asked here. So please take it easy if you flame me.

My question is would an IF diet be a good idea on an Hdrol cutting cycle??? Cause Im planning one to start very soon and IF seems to be extremely effective if followed properly.

Thanks
 
TheBreeze said:
Seeing that this thread has well over 1000 posts and Im far too impatient to read them all Im gonna ask a kind of dumb question that Im sure has already been asked here. So please take it easy if you flame me.

My question is would an IF diet be a good idea on an Hdrol cutting cycle??? Cause Im planning one to start very soon and IF seems to be extremely effective if followed properly.

Thanks
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Breeze, I am not the expert here on IF, but Kleen seems to be our resident Guru with Lean Gains & IF. But, from what I know about it, yes, it can be used to do just about anything you are looking to do, just have to adjust the calories/Macros appropriately to make it fit your goal and you are good to go! I can't wait to give it a try to be honest with you, I am very much looking forward to it, when I do it, I'm going to be using it as more of a maintenance diet/lifestyle change in the way I eat all together!
 
TheBreeze said:
Seeing that this thread has well over 1000 posts and Im far too impatient to read them all Im gonna ask a kind of dumb question that Im sure has already been asked here. So please take it easy if you flame me.

My question is would an IF diet be a good idea on an Hdrol cutting cycle??? Cause Im planning one to start very soon and IF seems to be extremely effective if followed properly.

Thanks
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Sounds good Doc, The LG Protocol is versatile. I would say the type of PH does not matter, if the goal is to cut adjust the macros/cals to the goal. I have definitely found the sweet spot for my recomp, man I'm loving me some Lean Gains.
 
TheBreeze said:
Seeing that this thread has well over 1000 posts and Im far too impatient to read them all Im gonna ask a kind of dumb question that Im sure has already been asked here. So please take it easy if you flame me.

My question is would an IF diet be a good idea on an Hdrol cutting cycle??? Cause Im planning one to start very soon and IF seems to be extremely effective if followed properly.

Thanks
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Just got done with a run of Helladrol (hdrol clone) and it was very successful for me using IF. I stayed the same weight from start to finish and dropped 2-3% bodyfat after 6 weeks. I couldn't have asked for a better recomp, so yes it works!!
 
ScottyDoc said:
So... a good way for me to train and get lean would be to dislocate myself in the woods for a few months with only a knife and spear and a way to make fire to cook of course and just hunt and gather food all day long? I can call it, "The Hunter's Diet"
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As long as it is not an over hunted area sure! However I would recommend some log lifting as well as learning to drag the heavy carcasses of dead animals back to your campsite then up a tree to keep them away from other predators. I don't think any of the paleo guys were into bodybuilding so you would need to add in some training to cause muscle growth but just to be lean and athletically muscular I think you have a good plan.

monstermash said:
LOL Good idea if this physique is your goal... :stups:

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I bet he can run farther faster, as well as carry a percentage of his weight longer than most of us even though he doesn't have a bunch of muscle. That and he is definitely older than most of us. Compare him to your average 60 year old American... I know it was a joke but still don't let the skinny old man fool you he has strengths, and conditioning we wouldn't imagine just by looking at a picture.

ScottyDoc said:
I was thinking more of Manny Puig...

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This is more along the lines of what sprinting, cutting, chopping, carrying prey, building your own shelters might produce.

DreamWeaver said:
Fortunatley I'm still not civilized.... :)
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AMEN!

TheBreeze said:
Seeing that this thread has well over 1000 posts and Im far too impatient to read them all Im gonna ask a kind of dumb question that Im sure has already been asked here. So please take it easy if you flame me.

My question is would an IF diet be a good idea on an Hdrol cutting cycle??? Cause Im planning one to start very soon and IF seems to be extremely effective if followed properly.

Thanks
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Good nutrition is good no matter what cycle you are running. Everyone seems to think somehow other than increasing protein intake there is a special way to eat on cycle. Why is that? You want to gain you eat more calories on cycle you want to lose fat you eat less calories on cycle. You keep protein higher you get more protein synthesis. Nothing changes that. This just makes it easier to do and more efficient to get the same benefits in many cases. There are many hormonal and health benefits to Intermittent Fasting but it still comes down to your personal macros sweet spots and calories / calories out. Not flaming you at all but some seem to think LeanGains or IF in general is in some way magical. It is not it take natural hormonal patterns and reactions to food into account for the fasting and feeding periods making it easier for me and many others to recomp.

To simplify this as best I can it is still a bulk / cut philosophy. You bulk on lift days and you cut on rest / cardio days. The fasting primes the body for the hormonal reaction to the food in both feeding and fasting situations. Toggling between overfeeding for gains and underfeeding for fat loss keeps catabolism at bay as well as any excess fat storage during the bulk.
 
Great post Kleen! ^^^:goodpost:

That is a very good way to put it into words bro.
 
Agreed. I'd rep Kleenex but I'm on mobile.

Very , very well said.

Rick, man your ripped. I remember you coming off cycle being around 200, look at you now you cut up mofo!!!
 
morry said:
Agreed. I'd rep Kleenex but I'm on mobile.

Very , very well said.

Rick, man your ripped. I remember you coming off cycle being around 200, look at you now you cut up mofo!!!
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Thanks a lot bro! I have came a long way in a relatively short amount of time and with the aid of a very succesful cycle ;)
 
RickRock13 said:
Thanks a lot bro! I have came a long way in a relatively short amount of time and with the aid of a very succesful cycle ;)
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It really shows dedication my man. Something to be very proud of.

I wish I'd had stayed around but life has its turns. I should be back for a while at least. Lots of things changed, but questing for beast status is what we're all after, right?
 
morry said:
It really shows dedication my man. Something to be very proud of.

I wish I'd had stayed around but life has its turns. I should be back for a while at least. Lots of things changed, but questing for beast status is what we're all after, right?
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That's what we are always after! Its good seeing you around again Morry...
 
MrKleen73 said:
Good nutrition is good no matter what cycle you are running. Everyone seems to think somehow other than increasing protein intake there is a special way to eat on cycle. Why is that? You want to gain you eat more calories on cycle you want to lose fat you eat less calories on cycle. You keep protein higher you get more protein synthesis. Nothing changes that. This just makes it easier to do and more efficient to get the same benefits in many cases. There are many hormonal and health benefits to Intermittent Fasting but it still comes down to your personal macros sweet spots and calories / calories out. Not flaming you at all but some seem to think LeanGains or IF in general is in some way magical. It is not it take natural hormonal patterns and reactions to food into account for the fasting and feeding periods making it easier for me and many others to recomp.

To simplify this as best I can it is still a bulk / cut philosophy. You bulk on lift days and you cut on rest / cardio days. The fasting primes the body for the hormonal reaction to the food in both feeding and fasting situations. Toggling between overfeeding for gains and underfeeding for fat loss keeps catabolism at bay as well as any excess fat storage during the bulk.
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Thanks Kleen. RickRock said it, great way to spell it out for me. I appreciate it.

I actually gave IF a shot 2 mornings ago. I ended up getting in a very nice workout and eating a little less than maintenance. Upon going to bed I was about 3 lbs lighter than when I woke up!!! I was stoked. However, that was short lived. Upon waking up exahusted from lack of zzz's I attempted some cardio with less than stellar results and came home and passed out. Then woke up late, headed to work, and of course passing my micky D's I grabbed 4 :burger:and smashed 3 of them in the 2 mile drive to work :disappointed:. Needless to say it was not a good day diet wise. But tomorrow's a new day and Im planning on an IF diet for my Hdrol cycle I also plan on starting tomorrow.

I will keep you guys posted on how it goes. Wish me luck...better yet, wish me discipline :cheers:
 
Good luck bro, once you really dial in to LG it becomes second nature. I have had weeks where I've dropped 3-4 lbs in 5 days, it really is unbelievable how well this protocol works. The main thing for me was finding the right cals and macros. It took me a couple weeks, but now that I found the sweet spot I am constantly changing (noticeably by the day). LG paired with your PH should render some outstanding results. If you log please PM or post up a link I'm sure there are plenty here who would like to follow.
 
TheBreeze said:
Thanks Kleen. RickRock said it, great way to spell it out for me. I appreciate it.

I actually gave IF a shot 2 mornings ago. I ended up getting in a very nice workout and eating a little less than maintenance. Upon going to bed I was about 3 lbs lighter than when I woke up!!! I was stoked. However, that was short lived. Upon waking up exahusted from lack of zzz's I attempted some cardio with less than stellar results and came home and passed out. Then woke up late, headed to work, and of course passing my micky D's I grabbed 4 :burger:and smashed 3 of them in the 2 mile drive to work :disappointed:. Needless to say it was not a good day diet wise. But tomorrow's a new day and Im planning on an IF diet for my Hdrol cycle I also plan on starting tomorrow.

I will keep you guys posted on how it goes. Wish me luck...better yet, wish me discipline :cheers:
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Good luck to you man, and let us know it goes for sure! :)
 
The first couple of days can be rough on some but it is easy as all get out after that. Then you can have those burgers post workout not every time but on occasion.
 
MrKleen73 said:
The first couple of days can be rough on some but it is easy as all get out after that. Then you can have those burgers post workout not every time but on occasion.
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I agree man. This diet is lenient, but moderation is key. My cardio/rest days are usually super clean and my build days I pretty much eat whatever I want as long as my macros come out right in the end.
 
For the cheesecake recipe .... where are you guys finding this low Carb milk? Only milk I have used is organic fat free milk which is 12g carbs and 9g protein per cup.
 
RawStrength said:
Yes where is this milk?
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Instructions call for 1/2 cup...
ur talking a measly 6g carbs
No worries what milk u use...I use non-fat from mootopia, it's low lactose, low carb and higher protein
 
I'm going to have to make me some of this.
 
For those of you that take a training deload week once in a while, how do you structure your eating during this time? During my deload weeks, I usually just go in my usual 4 days a week, but I'll only do 1 lift for the day (squat, deadlift, bench or military press, and only at around 50% of my max). Would you still make those training days a calorie surplus day? Or do you structure these deload weeks a different way than normal?
 
Thanks Fellas :) Im actually on day after Saturday and I gotta admit Im pretty happy with what I ate today. I actually didnt realize it until typing this just now, I didn't eat much at all today. And I especially didn't eat anything dirty :D

I do have one question for you IF gurus if I may. According to Martin's explanation on his home page as I understand it, one should only be eating a max of 3 meals per day. Did I understand that right??? I ask mainly because I have a terribly hard time eating only 3 times per day cause I try not to stuff myself from any single meal. However, I did manage to keep it to 3 meals today but my post workout meal was a little hard to finish. And it was just 3 chicken breasts, brown rice and some green beans with bacon. By the last bite I had to pretty much wash it down with h20 to finish it all. But I will admit, I was never really "hungry" at anytime other than ~45mins post workout.

BTW, Idk if Im following the IF diet exactly to protocol at this point, but I will openly admit this is BY FAR the easiest diet plan I have ever even attempted to follow, much less stick to for 3 days already!!! I mean, I woke up 3lbs + lighter after the very first day! I cant wait to jump on the scale before church tomorrow morning!
 
I believe the time windows are more important than # of meals, definitely on off days. For workout days, maybe the # is important to avoid carb/insulin bleed
 
Breeze, He recommended or mentions 3 a day but said as long as the fast breaker or post workout meall had the largest amount of food it doesn't matter if you graze the rest of the 8 hours. Basically 3 is enough to get in your calories and have them spread out a little bit so it is manageable for you. However don't negate the anabolic effects of the fast breaker or post workout by making it too small that is the time you want that insulin spike. The goal is making the 8 hour window very anabolic. DOn't bring too many of the old school taboos into the 8 hour window. Also don't worrry about how hard that big meal was breeze, it won't be for very long. You will find taking in 1500 cals in a meal can become quite easy. In general I eat when I feel like it after my fast breaker if hungry in 2 hours I eat then if 4 hours that is when I eat again. Size of the first meal has a major effect on how fast digestion is. The entry to the intestines becomes smaller when a large meal is eaten allowing slower digestion and a steady flow of nutrition. Think of a lion eating 30-40 lbs of meat at one time. Sustains them for a good bit and they don't know when the next feeding is so the leaders of the pride take what they want first then let the weaker lions at it. They know they need that huge meal instinctively.

JoshDP As far as the deload week, well I think it would be a good idea to just do maintenance all week if not trying to lose a lot of weight. No toggling from high tolow that week would make sense to me. You are trying to fully recover from the damage you have done to your body over a long period as balls out training. In that situation I don't see to much need to go hyper or hypo caloric on any day. If trying to lean up then just keep eating as normal. You will average out to maintenance but still burn a little more fat. Remember calories in / calories out according to goal still applies. However that is just me thinking out loud, I don't do a complete deload week too often. More of a rotating deload for body arts a lot of time. However if I were power lifting or when I got back to fulll body training I will use a delaod week of just body weight exercises and will follw the recommendations I just mentioned.
 
MrKleen73 said:
Breeze, He recommended or mentions 3 a day but said as long as the fast breaker or post workout meall had the largest amount of food it doesn't matter if you graze the rest of the 8 hours. Basically 3 is enough to get in your calories and have them spread out a little bit so it is manageable for you. However don't negate the anabolic effects of the fast breaker or post workout by making it too small that is the time you want that insulin spike. The goal is making the 8 hour window very anabolic. DOn't bring too many of the old school taboos into the 8 hour window. Also don't worrry about how hard that big meal was breeze, it won't be for very long. You will find taking in 1500 cals in a meal can become quite easy. In general I eat when I feel like it after my fast breaker if hungry in 2 hours I eat then if 4 hours that is when I eat again. Size of the first meal has a major effect on how fast digestion is. The entry to the intestines becomes smaller when a large meal is eaten allowing slower digestion and a steady flow of nutrition. Think of a lion eating 30-40 lbs of meat at one time. Sustains them for a good bit and they don't know when the next feeding is so the leaders of the pride take what they want first then let the weaker lions at it. They know they need that huge meal instinctively.JoshDP As far as the deload week, well I think it would be a good idea to just do maintenance all week if not trying to lose a lot of weight. No toggling from high tolow that week would make sense to me. You are trying to fully recover from the damage you have done to your body over a long period as balls out training. In that situation I don't see to much need to go hyper or hypo caloric on any day. If trying to lean up then just keep eating as normal. You will average out to maintenance but still burn a little more fat. Remember calories in / calories out according to goal still applies. However that is just me thinking out loud, I don't do a complete deload week too often. More of a rotating deload for body arts a lot of time. However if I were power lifting or when I got back to fulll body training I will use a delaod week of just body weight exercises and will follw the recommendations I just mentioned.
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I agree with you 100% Kleen. My wife and I were just discussing last night my meal sizes and how much food I can eat at a time in one sitting compared to before. I actually have to tell myself to stop now and not go overboard because I really never get that feeling of being too full where I cant eat more. It is this reason that I find it usually easier for me to just have pretty much 2 meals a day. A very large fast breaking meal (1k on rest/cardio days and 1500ish on build days) with an only slightly smaller meal (200-300 cals less) for my last meal. That is pretty much how I do things with the exception of a shake in between the 2 meals on build days.
 
Good post Kleen!

I'm not practicing this exactly, but I am using some of the concepts in the cut I'm in right now. If everything in life goes as planned this next week, I'll begin a cycle. This cut is preparing me for it.

I LOVE this thread. TONS of great info!
 
:)

Wow I thought I was the only person on earth who did this... I suffered from anorexia for 2 years after losing a lot of fat/weight. Then when I go myself healthy again, it was using this lifestyle/protocol! Awesome to know it's legit and I cantell everyonewho says I'm doing things incorrectly to fck off!! Lol but I have never really user anything pre workout besides my nitric oxide pills and fat burners, multis, cla+l carnitine, b vitamins... Should I
Start using a bcaa blend pre workout?? Something like recover pro/modern bcaa? Purple wraath looks good as well..? I tried xtend but feel like all the glutamine bloats me... Anyone else have that issue?
 
I have to admit my discipline on this dieting style has not been as good as it was at first but I have upheld the fasting end to perfection never breaking it early. I am literally shocked as I continued to lose fat and now am down around 5%, dispite going over calories on burn days mostly. Not a lot over for the most part. It's just that sometimes on burn days I get extremely hungry. I try to make up for it with cardio and have been very successful but still suffice it to say the margin for error on this diet is quite large. Even when you're cutting very low.

Calorie wise I am averaging about 2800 a day which is above my maintenance in week 1 of a cut. The fasting and gorging makes it so you don't have to reduce calories to continue to lose weight as your metabolism always stays high. I feel like I a cheating and still getting leaner, this is........... Nuggin futs!!
 
DreamWeaver said:
I have to admit my discipline on this dieting style has not been as good as it was at first but I have upheld the fasting end to perfection never breaking it early. I am literally shocked as I continued to lose fat and now am down around 5%, dispite going over calories on burn days mostly. Not a lot over for the most part. It's just that sometimes on burn days I get extremely hungry. I try to make up for it with cardio and have been very successful but still suffice it to say the margin for error on this diet is quite large. Even when you're cutting very low.

Calorie wise I am averaging about 2800 a day which is above my maintenance in week 1 of a cut. The fasting and gorging makes it so you don't have to reduce calories to continue to lose weight as your metabolism always stays high. I feel like I a cheating and still getting leaner, this is........... Nuggin futs!!
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I would agree with you on all counts. I have increased Cal's and reduced cardio to moderate, and also just added a build day with dropping a cardio day. After doing that I have still leaned out more dropping a half percent in PCT! It doesn't seem right but its nice!!
 
RickRock13 said:
I would agree with you on all counts. I have increased Cal's and reduced cardio to moderate, and also just added a build day with dropping a cardio day. After doing that I have still leaned out more dropping a half percent in PCT! It doesn't seem right but its nice!!
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Yah I'm not complaining but it's freakin odd...
 
RickRock13 said:
I agree with you 100% Kleen. My wife and I were just discussing last night my meal sizes and how much food I can eat at a time in one sitting compared to before. I actually have to tell myself to stop now and not go overboard because I really never get that feeling of being too full where I cant eat more. It is this reason that I find it usually easier for me to just have pretty much 2 meals a day. A very large fast breaking meal (1k on rest/cardio days and 1500ish on build days) with an only slightly smaller meal (200-300 cals less) for my last meal. That is pretty much how I do things with the exception of a shake in between the 2 meals on build days.
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Breakfast for me today (workout day) was 2 1/4lb salmon patties each on a whole grain bun, a glass of hood calorie countdown milk, a banana, an orange, a whole grain waffle with real maple syrup, and a glass of pineapple/orange juice
 
My lunch (fast break) was 2 salmon patties, 1 Turkey burger, 2 crab cakes, 8 stalks asparagus, 1 slice cheese, 1 pear, 1 apple, 2tbsp PowerButter, 1 slice bundt cake, and 1 NTBM Better Protein Bar. Now I need a snack!
 
Milas said:
My lunch (fast break) was 2 salmon patties, 1 Turkey burger, 2 crab cakes, 8 stalks asparagus, 1 slice cheese, 1 pear, 1 apple, 2tbsp PowerButter, 1 slice bundt cake, and 1 NTBM Better Protein Bar. Now I need a snack!
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OMG... that is so much food, I don't think I'm taking in that many calories in a whole day, much less one meal, LoL!
 
ScottyDoc said:
OMG... that is so much food, I don't think I'm taking in that many calories in a whole day, much less one meal, LoL!
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That's why I'm rarely successful at cutting unless I workout 3 times a day!
 
Milas said:
My lunch (fast break) was 2 salmon patties, 1 Turkey burger, 2 crab cakes, 8 stalks asparagus, 1 slice cheese, 1 pear, 1 apple, 2tbsp PowerButter, 1 slice bundt cake, and 1 NTBM Better Protein Bar. Now I need a snack!
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now that sounds amazing!
 
Since I bothered listing off breakfast I figure I'll tell you dinner today too. It was .86 lbs of thin sliced top sirloin, 8oz (dry weight) kamut/quinoa noodles, a can of red clam sauce and 2 glasses of red wine
 
EasyEJL said:
Since I bothered listing off breakfast I figure I'll tell you dinner today too. It was .86 lbs of thin sliced top sirloin, 8oz (dry weight) kamut/quinoa noodles, a can of red clam sauce and 2 glasses of red wine
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That sounds like a damn good dinner to me!!
 
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