"So help me God!?!"

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EESCHMan said:
... Most atheists follow the "do unto others as they would do unto you" / "Golden Rule" which is what I follow.
(This is not exclusive to Christianity but to many other religions as well) ...
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I agree. Regardless of what creed (if any) you elect to honor, the 'golden rule' is one standard that I cannot find contradiction with. It ensures fairness and justifies consequence for all, without bias.

It saddens me to hear you have been so prosecuted by 'hard-core' Christians, as you call them. You know, you don't have to be a Christian to be accepted by Christ. I'm betting nobody has ever told you that? Check out what the Bible says about non-believers:

Romans 2:12-29 (NIV)

"All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares."

Basically, you are judged more so by your intent than by your actions. If you break the law, but honestly didn't know it, God says he won't judge you for not knowing better. He judges those who actually know better and still do it anyway! (like many of those hypocritical 'christians' you have encountered) So don't be so quick to dismiss God because of crazy Christians, because God is cooler about things that you think. ;) He put an inherent social/moral conscience in every man's heart, so you need nobody else to tell you what's right or wrong. It is an intuitive understanding just as you agreed above (the Golden Rule).
 
B5150 said:
There are some of us Christians who had no negative preconceived notions about atheists until they demonstrated and or expressed their hate for God and believers. Like Christians that group has some members with less than becoming characters as well.
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I don't really understand why an athiest would express hate for something that they don't believe exists...

anyway, I guess that's why they say not to talk about religion & politics
 
DR.D said:
I agree. Regardless of what creed (if any) you elect to honor, the 'golden rule' is one standard that I cannot find contradiction with. It ensures fairness and justifies consequence for all, without bias.

It saddens me to hear you have been so prosecuted by 'hard-core' Christians, as you call them. You know, you don't have to be a Christian to be accepted by Christ. I'm betting nobody has ever told you that? Check out what the Bible says about non-believers:

Romans 2:12-29 (NIV)

"All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares."

Basically, you are judged more so by your intent than by your actions. If you break the law, but honestly didn't know it, God says he won't judge you for not knowing better. He judges those who actually know better and still do it anyway! (like many of those hypocritical 'christians' you have encountered) So don't be so quick to dismiss God because of crazy Christians, because God is cooler about things that you think. ;) He put an inherent social/moral conscience in every man's heart, so you need nobody else to tell you what's right or wrong. It is an intuitive understanding just as you agreed above (the Golden Rule).
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"Crazy Christians" aren't why I'm an atheist, but thanks for the info anyway
 
EESCHMan said:
I don't really understand why an athiest would express hate for something that they don't believe exists...

anyway, I guess that's why they say not to talk about religion & politics
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There has been much hate expressed here and elsewhere at the expense of Christians or people who believe in God or a god.

You must have been out sick that day :)
 
I like God myself. Am glad to say so help me God. God bless America. Merry Christmas.

Say it all and like saying it :)
 
EESCHMan said:
"Crazy Christians" aren't why I'm an atheist, but thanks for the info anyway
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Just to touch on the evangelistic aspect of christianity. I'm personally not an evangelistic person, as I truly feel there are other topics of conversation for those who might not hold the same beliefs as myself, but there's a reason why these sort of people are so eager to talk about their faith. I figure if I explain it, this "group of people" will seem a little more tolerable.

Evangelistic Christians have found and accepted the concept of Christ. He is their Lord and Savior, and (especially with born-again christians) has completely changed their lives for the better. As I'm sure they've already told you that this acceptance is the greatest thing which they've ever done or will do.

Anyone can "walk with Christ", and to keep someone from knowing that its obtainable is (to them) the most selfish thing you could ever do. It's like putting a tax on air, or something, to them, just the most selfish thing you could think of, being done by someone who's trying to be as unselfish as they can.
 
God is used through many variaties of religion and several of which do not have strict policies against gay marriage or abortion. So in itself it really only becomes an issue if he were to use that line and be under the same faith you were. Which would in turn mean he's breaking your religious laws. While we defend that the country and constitution were made with god in mind I bet that the God of that time and the God worshipped by many now are two different God's. Fire and brimstone before and love and forgiveness now.

My views on abortion are different from many of the same faith. In my opinion I do not think that it makes our views 'wrong' because we have the same intent but we arrive at it differently from how we look at the situation.

Killing innocent people is murder
Murder is wrong
Murder is against God's will

When is a fetus a 'person'?
At conception (say some)
Heart is pumping (say others)
Brain function (say some others)
Outside of the womb (say even more people)

All of which are Christian in belief and all of which who think killing innocent people is wrong.
 
You are not even old enough to know what racism truly is, in fact you don't know ****. You spout out all of the stuff that's been put into your sheltered little brain like you've experienced something. Have you ever once been denied anything simply because of the color of your skin? Hell no. Come out of your shelter and travel into the real world, maybe you'll truly learn something. It's real easy when everyone around you thinks the same , isn't it? God is real but there are elements of religion rooted in arrogance that may someday end our world.
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Well, I disagree with your reasoning...

1. Your statement assumes no one today suffers from racism because of their age
2. This also means there is no current issue with racism
3. Your tone makes it sound like only certain races can suffer racism
 
"The God given promise that all are equal, all are free and all deserve a chance to pursue their full measure of happiness." - 0:45

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6B1EdltlEk&feature=related"]YouTube - Barack Obama Inaugural Speech Part 2[/ame]
 
B5150 said:
"The God given promise that all are equal, all are free and all deserve a chance to pursue their full measure of happiness." - 0:45

Invalid Link Removed
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He's a witch...BUUUUUUUURN him.


/glad this isn't a theocracy so I can say that without fear of christian torture and execution.

// incitement - it's not just for dinner anymore
 
B5150 said:
"The God given promise that all are equal, all are free and all deserve a chance to pursue their full measure of happiness." - 0:45
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Palen's God would not allow abortion or gay marriage but maybe Obama's will.

I wonder if he prays to his God too.:27:
 
B5150 said:
Palen's God would not allow abortion or gay marriage but maybe Obama's will.

I wonder if he prays to his God too.:27:
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"Palin's God" (sorry for the spelling correction) - what a kickass name for a band.
 
B5150 said:
Very cool!:sgrin:

Spelling correction was no foul. I learned it as (Van)Palen to pronounce it and by default I is illiterate.
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The correct phrase is "I BE illiterate"

mobileicon.gif
 
Zero V said:
Christians are likely to follow way more morals and are likelyto be more effective than the atheists I have met.
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That's absolutely ridiculous. You just can't stand the thought that everyone equal before God, regarding their believes, just like sun shines on everyone equally, no matter if you believe in sun or not. Do you just wanna feel more special and more superior than others by bringing down people with different belief systems than yours? Is that what Christianity teaches you? Really?
Explain to me then, why divorce rate is the same for Christians and atheists or any other group of people in this country? Why as many Christians are sick and popping antidepressants as any other group of people? Why is it abortion rate and underage pregnancy are higher in south-east states where 95% people call themselves Christians? Why are so many countries in the world such as Western Europe have great economy, low crime rate, etc. and have very low percentage of religious people living there?
 
:bruce2:
Zero V said:
Its disappointing to me. This country was built on certain principles, and through those principles it rose to be the most powerful nation on earth. Ever since we starting removing God from everything at the demand of certain groups, have you not noticed the country slowly die as God is more and more rejected? Our country was built on faith, for faith has won America its favor in wars, and in politics. Strip away that faith, and what do you have l left.

Since the 50's America has been like a brain cancer patient, slowly dieing and becoming more irrational in the process. The reason many of us know where America is headed, is because we see how hard atheists and such are pushing for God to be removed from everything. All they are really asking is for God to take his hand off this country and let it die. Well.... Patterns don't lie. The more atheists win the politics, the closer America comes to its deathbed.

Personally I think every president of our nation should swear in on the Bible, and under God. I am expecting a flaming for this part. But of every Christian/atheist i have met. Christians are likely to follow way more morals and are likelyto be more effective than the atheists I have met. I have seen every atheist fired from the places I have worked due to their ethics. Every one, always was fired. I know not every atheist is like that, but seeing such a large amount be like that...

I am uncertain of Obama's beliefs.Whether or not he chooses to use a reference to God will foretell a lot. He might fix our economy, but he may also murder the American spirit. Depending on how he runs things.

Ive been reading lately many things that describe what "Americans". We went from "God fearing, unbreakable light of hope" to "Most medicated and depressed and most likely to bleed cheeseburger grease if you shoot them". Congrats to all those who fight to make it like this...

If you build a nation on a rock, then once its finished, you yank the rock from underneath it. Just like a building it will crumble. America was build on "The Rock", on faith to God.

The word God is now thrown around without any real respect or homage to God himself.

:unitedstates:

Aight boys, got yer flamer throwers read, :23:
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Zero!!! Amen Brother! Everyone is going to disagree. But its the truth! It kinda funny actually. This country was made from Christians and we accepted the freedom of other religions. Now christianity is loosing there freedom........... I guess we all cant play fare.....
 
Jayhawkk said:
Well, I disagree with your reasoning...

1. Your statement assumes no one today suffers from racism because of their age

No it doesn't at all however, true racism and racial intolerance are 2 different things.

2. This also means there is no current issue with racism

That's far from what I meant, racism has not disappeared but there is much more sensitivity to it nowadays

3. Your tone makes it sound like only certain races can suffer racism
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All races can be affected by racial intolerance and hatred but the fact is minorities have been profoundly affected by overt, covert and institutionalized racism. Caucasian people have been affected at times by acts of racial hatred as a result but the reverse of that has been much more prevalent for the better part of 400 years. It's all wrong no matter what side it comes from but, the facts are the facts. It's also a fact that some in the minority community use racism as a crutch.


I also have always contended that racism has been the perfect vehicle for keeping the have nots and have a little in this country from finding out how much we all have in common.

:bruce3:
 
futurepilot said:
What freedoms do you think christians are losing?
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How about - for one - freedom to celebrate a Christmas Holiday and an Easter Holiday in school. It is now a Winter Recess and a Spring Recess.

But even the pagans are loosing out because Santa has gotten the boot as well.

I grew up in NYC in the 70's. There was never a problem with Hanukkah and Christmas between the Jews and Catholics in the public school system. They were both recognized and celebrated equally and without discrimination of one or the other.

Atheists have the freedom to publicly celebrate nothing if they chose. Unfortunately they have infringed upon my freedom to celebrate something.

So help me God - this has gone way OT. ;)
 
DR.D said:
I agree. Regardless of what creed (if any) you elect to honor, the 'golden rule' is one standard that I cannot find contradiction with. It ensures fairness and justifies consequence for all, without bias.

It saddens me to hear you have been so prosecuted by 'hard-core' Christians, as you call them. You know, you don't have to be a Christian to be accepted by Christ. I'm betting nobody has ever told you that? Check out what the Bible says about non-believers:

Romans 2:12-29 (NIV)

"All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares."

Basically, you are judged more so by your intent than by your actions. If you break the law, but honestly didn't know it, God says he won't judge you for not knowing better. He judges those who actually know better and still do it anyway! (like many of those hypocritical 'christians' you have encountered) So don't be so quick to dismiss God because of crazy Christians, because God is cooler about things that you think. ;) He put an inherent social/moral conscience in every man's heart, so you need nobody else to tell you what's right or wrong. It is an intuitive understanding just as you agreed above (the Golden Rule).
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excellent quote Dr. D. I have had this discussion with many Christians previously, and have come to the conclusion that as a nontheist myself, if I am not accepted into heaven (if it exists) b/c I didnt believe, then I certainly would not want to be there anyway
 
DmitryWI said:
... Do you just wanna feel more special and more superior than others by bringing down people with different belief systems than yours? Is that what Christianity teaches you? Really? ...
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No D, I don't think he is. We've been bros a long time man, so hear me out. Christianity encourages that you share your insight (testimony) with others. The Bible states that if any man knows of Christ, yet still rejects His truth, that man is lost. Christians believe this, so why wouldn't they tell you! Unless they just don't give a **** about their fellow man, and that generally ain't a real Christian mentality. The Bible also states that it is not God's will that anyone be lost, it is utterly inclusive. Christians will be accountable for their sins, however. In this case, negligence as a tower guard to ring the bell when the enemy approaches (a sin of omission). The blood of the people is on your hands if you know better but fail to warn them. I think that is his motive, which is honorable and sincere in my observation, even if his approach personally offends you. However, the Bible also says to dust your shoes off, walk out of town, and never look back if nobody wants to listen. I think that's the main prob Zero is having right now. I don't think he's ready to leave town yet, so to speak. :)
 
Reaper329 said:
excellent quote Dr. D. I have had this discussion with many Christians previously, and have come to the conclusion that as a nontheist myself, if I am not accepted into heaven (if it exists) b/c I didnt believe, then I certainly would not want to be there anyway
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I share your same opinion 100% Reaper. If God is gonna punish me for things that I didn't even know I was doing wrong, then he would be an unjust parent indeed. Who wants to serve a malevolent, dishonorable god? Like I said though, if you can't decide who to believe, and God hasn't personally placed the understanding in your heart, then just follow the Golden Rule as a standard. "Love never fails", so be a guaranteed winner. ;)
 
This is what I think of a few select posts in this debate.

"Great understanding is broad and unhurried; little understanding is cramped and busy. Great words are clear and limpid;3 little words are shrill and quarrelsome. In sleep, men's spirits go visiting; in waking hours, their bodies hustle. With everything they meet they become entangled. Day after day they use their minds in strife, sometimes grandiose, sometimes sly, sometimes petty. Their little fears are mean and trembly; their great fears are stunned and overwhelming. They bound off like an arrow or a crossbow pellet, certain that they are the arbiters of right and wrong. They cling to their position as though they had sworn before the gods, sure that they are holding on to victory. They fade like fall and winter - such is the way they dwindle day by day. They drown in what they do - you cannot make them turn back. They grow dark, as though sealed with seals - such are the excesses of their old age. And when their minds draw near to death, nothing can restore them to the light."
 
B5150 said:
How about - for one - freedom to celebrate a Christmas Holiday and an Easter Holiday in school. It is now a Winter Recess and a Spring Recess.

But even the pagans are loosing out because Santa has gotten the boot as well.

I grew up in NYC in the 70's. There was never a problem with Hanukkah and Christmas between the Jews and Catholics in the public school system. They were both recognized and celebrated equally and without discrimination of one or the other.

Atheists have the freedom to publicly celebrate nothing if they chose. Unfortunately they have infringed upon my freedom to celebrate something.

So help me God - this has gone way OT. ;)
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I as well grew up in Brooklyn and you're right about the acceptance of all holidays and religions. But that's just the point, it was New York City which is possibly the most diverse place on earth.

:bruce3:
 
DR.D said:
No D, I don't think he is. We've been bros a long time man, so hear me out. Christianity encourages that you share your insight (testimony) with others. The Bible states that if any man knows of Christ, yet still rejects His truth, that man is lost. Christians believe this, so why wouldn't they tell you! Unless they just don't give a **** about their fellow man, and that generally ain't a real Christian mentality. The Bible also states that it is not God's will that anyone be lost, it is utterly inclusive. Christians will be accountable for their sins, however. In this case, negligence as a tower guard to ring the bell when the enemy approaches (a sin of omission). The blood of the people is on your hands if you know better but fail to warn them. I think that is his motive, which is honorable and sincere in my observation, even if his approach personally offends you. However, the Bible also says to dust your shoes off, walk out of town, and never look back if nobody wants to listen. I think that's the main prob Zero is having right now. I don't think he's ready to leave town yet, so to speak. :)
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So if I share with you the truth of Cthulu, then you won't mind patiently listening and will embrace my comments that you will fry in hell if you don't magically cause yourself to "believe" (which, by the way is beyond willful control...you cannot make yourself believe).

given that phenomena of belief is beyond control (again, it either happens or doesn't) how can one be punished if they don't believe?
 
dsade said:
So if I share with you the truth of Cthulu, then you won't mind patiently listening and will embrace my comments that you will fry in hell if you don't magically cause yourself to "believe" (which, by the way is beyond willful control...you cannot make yourself believe).

given that phenomena of belief is beyond control (again, it either happens or doesn't) how can one be punished if they don't believe?
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If you have some novel creed or deity, I'd love to investigate it's potential in my spare time. Why not? I don't avoid critical investigation. I actually seek the truth. I'm different from guys like you who prefer to live in the safety and simplicity of your comfort bubble, where it all makes sense and you can criticize god and everyone else around you that has the guts to reach for reality. The contemporary definition of such a man is called a sociopath. You got everything figured out already, don't you? Goody good for you!

A belief is merely an opinion. I don't see my heart, but based on the fact that I have a pulse and see my chest pulsing rhythmically, I believe that something is in there pumping blood. Is that an illegitimate believe, or are the odds good enough to build on? Likewise, you may believe that your magical chipotle god will burn me in hell, but that belief does not influence reality if it's not based on reality. I go with the odds, it's the best you can do. A just god will judge you for your actions, based on your awareness of those actions. Basically, what you call karma or golden rule. Deny a good god, a good god will deny you. Support an evil god, embrace an evil conclusion in eternity. That's logical and reasonable to believe, no?
 
DR.D said:
If you have some novel creed or deity, I'd love to investigate it's potential in my spare time. Why not? I don't avoid critical investigation. I actually seek the truth. I'm different from guys like you who prefer to live in the safety and simplicity of your comfort bubble, where it all makes sense and you can criticize god and everyone else around you that has the guts to reach for reality. The contemporary definition of such a man is called a sociopath. You got everything figured out already, don't you? Goody good for you!

A belief is merely an opinion. I don't see my heart, but based on the fact that I have a pulse and see my chest pulsing rhythmically, I believe that something is in there pumping blood. Is that an illegitimate believe, or are the odds good enough to build on? Likewise, you may believe that your magical chipotle god will burn me in hell, but that belief does not influence reality if it's not based on reality. I go with the odds, it's the best you can do. A just god will judge you for your actions, based on your awareness of those actions. Basically, what you call karma or golden rule. Deny a good god, a good god will deny you. Support an evil god, embrace an evil conclusion in eternity. That's logical and reasonable to believe, no?
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hmm...guess the happy civil honeymoon is over between us.

Interesting attitude.

I believe there is something pumping my blood too...except I can experiment and prove it.
 
dsade said:
hmm...guess the happy civil honeymoon is over between us.

Interesting attitude.

I believe there is something pumping my blood too...except I can experiment and prove it.
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Are you kidding? I've been trying for awhile now! **** a public honeymoon man, I wanted sincere resolution, on a personal level. I get it though, you don't need/want friends, it's cool. Besides, this is my observation and I meant no insult. You constantly avoid my questions and skew my points intentionally, just to fence I guess. What conclusion shall I arrive at?
 
I think you fail to realize this...

"God" is okay with everyone...nobody minds God...God's fine...It's when you mention Jesus Christ that people start to get upset...

That's the main issue. No Jesus. Jesus said himself if you deny Him, you deny the Father.
 
DR.D said:
Are you kidding? I've been trying for awhile now! **** a public honeymoon man, I wanted sincere resolution, on a personal level. I get it though, you don't need/want friends, it's cool. Besides, this is my observation and I meant no insult. You constantly avoid my questions and skew my points intentionally, just to fence I guess. What conclusion shall I arrive at?
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I wasn't avoiding questions...just been a hugely busy week and I've only been able to pop my head in for seconds at a time (unfortunately I only get to read the last few posts...my bad.)
 
DR.D said:
From now on, please say 'gosh' ok? lol :nana:

OK Fit, I'm gonna take your advise and go make a bourbon slurpy now.
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You mean the bourbon is going to make YOU slurpy.

/or is that slurry?
//how dry I am...
 
DR.D said:
From now on, please say 'gosh' ok? lol :nana:

OK Fit, I'm gonna take your advise and go make a bourbon slurpy now.
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I didnt give you the option for alcohol, its a diet soda for you :p

Ive always had a problem with saying god to much in a way many dont appreciate, I dont do it on purpose but its what I heard all my life growing up and is hard to break. But for you I will try harder.

remember, water, juice or diet soda :D
 
DR.D said:
No D, I don't think he is. We've been bros a long time man, so hear me out. Christianity encourages that you share your insight (testimony) with others.
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That's the problem. Unless I ask someone to share their believes with me, I don't want to hear it. But many Christians keep pushing their ideas on others and when you say "no", they try even harder. Plus telling people they are going to "hell" because they believe in something else is just f...ing wrong in my mind.
Until all religions realize, that their way to God isn't a better way, but simply different and until they learn how to respect and accept it, there will never be peace on Earth. And pushing your ideas on others, when nobody asks you to, isn't gonna earn you that respect, for yourself, your belief system and your religion.
 
dsade said:
I wasn't avoiding questions...just been a hugely busy week and I've only been able to pop my head in for seconds at a time (unfortunately I only get to read the last few posts...my bad.)
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OK. I hope things smooth out for you a little this w/e.

Since Fit denied my drinking privileges, I guess I'll go have 'fun' with a juice spritzer. :irked:
 
DR.D said:
OK. I hope things smooth out for you a little this w/e.

Since Fit denied my drinking privileges, I guess I'll go have 'fun' with a juice spritzer. :irked:
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Denial was always a great excuse to drink...in excess when necessary :puke:
 
DR.D said:
If you have some novel creed or deity, I'd love to investigate it's potential in my spare time. Why not? I don't avoid critical investigation. I actually seek the truth.
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I can actually second that about DR.D. Like he said, we've been talking for years and he was the most open minded guy here, and even if we didn't agree on some things, I don't think we ever got into fight because of that. He actually would ask for even more info, so he would better understand where I'm coming from...
 
B5150 said:
Another valid point.

Why is there any god in any of it and how has this be allowed to go on?

The God or a god isn't in our politics and our politics isn't in the God or a god.

This of course excludes the god complex politicians.
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I would say the drive to remove any kind of spirituality from the decision making is what's seriously contributing to the downfall of the USA and other countries that follow the amazing example that the USA is providing.

When all you have is heady logic(even though logic is great, its not what we are ONLY about, there IS a spiritual side to life or a mysterious wonderous side, set apart from logic that we NEED for balance)logic what you end up with is nothing but science (flawed as well) and decisions with no heart / compassion etc. Love makes all the difference.

You know its true USA is just about cold hard cash....no heart needed. (the same as all the other western countries that follow your example)

We can't survive on logic alone because there is so much more to people. If you put love first i.e. compassion, empathy, spirituality (not religious doctrine or bad examples) then the rest will fall into place because we will be balanced.

The whole thing is just a pendulum swinging from one side to the other until balance is achieved between one another and between us and the planet, then and only then will things smooth out.

Peace out
 
Also just want to put this out there....."God" for me is a word used to describe the spiritual / energy side of life where mysterious things happen by thinking, loving, praying, meditating on certain ideas and inspirations.

I see my 'God' as a collective consciousness of us all, to me its like a spiritual ether / cloud type thing. Full of love light and basically reflects your mood, mankinds state of mind etc etc

I don't have a guy in a long white robe with a long white beard helping me out, though I don't mind that picture either.....all these terms like father / holy spirit are just words used to convey aspects or facets of what this 'God' energy or thing is....

I dunno I don't totally convey this thought belief clearly :D and I believe Jesus was a cool guy who really understood and was in alignment in every way with his / our 'father' etc.
 
This has been an interesting read. A few more things I want to interject.

The reason Christians have a divorce rate almost equal to secular peeps is because of posers. There are many Christians who learn about God and Jesus Christ, but then just like to slap on the title and walk around still being secular. A real Christian functions differently, you can tell who they are because they have found something and it shows. It shows in there personality, their eyes, their lives period.

As a Christian I just witness by nature. I would rather risk having someone blow up in my face than facing that feeling of guilt all day because I missed an opportunity to save someone or didn't listen to what God was telling me.

About the atheist bit. I didnt say all atheists were into 666, only the one I met, but all the others I have met acted just as much of a jerkwad. Like I said, I dont doubt there are great guys who are atheist(I believe one of you posted about you being atheist and people wouldn't know it). I am just saying in Ohio every one I have met is a jerk. If I meet an atheist that says no thanks man, I have my own thing. But is sill up for a game of tennis, or will still spot me on a bench, sure. But I really have no preconceived notions about them I just have what I have learned from firsthand experience with them. That therefore is simply me telling you what I have experienced time and time again. So blame the atheists who are representing your ideals so badly. Just like we have to deal with Christians who really are just here to "play" Christian.

Yeah there is a difference, there is a line that has to be crossed. Because if you dont cross that line, then your still normal.
 
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