Primordial Performance Fat Loss Stack + Androhard (Sponsored) Log - OUFINNY Style

[MrKleen73]

Excellent sounds like you founda good Doctor. I need to get back out to Dr. Cadena at some point for some work on my hips to loosen them back up a bit. I think I have really tight adductors and gluteus minimus that need to be lined out. Good to hear you got a definite answer sorry to hear it wasn't what you had hoped. At least you can continue to workout. This would be a great time to start rocking up on your heels at the top of all quad movements to squeeze them real good. it will also help keep the weight on your heels and not on the ball of the foot.

 

[gwls]

Excellent sounds like you founda good Doctor. I need to get back out to Dr. Cadena at some point for some work on my hips to loosen them back up a bit. I think I have really tight adductors and gluteus minimus that need to be lined out. Good to hear you got a definite answer sorry to hear it wasn't what you had hoped. At least you can continue to workout. This would be a great time to start rocking up on your heels at the top of all quad movements to squeeze them real good. it will also help keep the weight on your heels and not on the ball of the foot.

You're just a mine of information mate, great stuff here as always... You should write a book for newbs, novices & know it alls - I'd certainly buy it :fing02:

 

[Army Guy]

nice to see that you found a good doctor. Those are soooo hard to come by these days... and it will only get worse as time goes on...

 

[oufinny]

nice to see that you found a good doctor. Those are soooo hard to come by these days... and it will only get worse as time goes on...

True that man, it took me over 5 years in this city to find a good internist I could trust if that gives you an idea what I am facing. Houston is supposed to have one of the best health care systems in the country too... right! :FUfinger:

 

[oufinny]

Sneak peek at today's workout, 3 PRs actually.
Hack/Front Squat machine - 630x6x2 sets Holy crap these were hard!
Decline Bench Press - 265x6 (1.5 were slightly aided with a spotter)
Upright BB rows - 125x7 Not a huge deal but it was crazy hard to do without a lot of body english, got to love straps!

2 scoops of AS-GT didn't seem to hurt either .

 

[gwls]

Man, just thinking og Houston so many great places, the mercury rooms, p f changs, landrys and the flying Dutchman on keemah boardwalk, sausage and cheese kolaches, the rodeo!!!

Such a very very cool city!!!

Anyway, sorry great looking workout again fin!!

 

[oufinny]

Friday workout - PR Land yet again

Man I was worried about Friday, midday workouts are notoriously bad for me but I was pleasantly surprised as you shall see.

PWO Supps:
2 scoops AS-GT :laugh2:
1 Erase

Workout:
Hack Squat - 450x8, 630x6, 630x6 PR! ds 540x6 ds 450x8 My quads were quivering when I was done and I still have DOMS today...

Decline Bench Press - 185x8, 245x8, (PR!)265x4+2 w/ spotter ds 225x5 ds 185x6 Holy crap this was awesome though the drops were BRUTAL!

Close Grip Bench - 135x8, 165x7, 165x8 ds 115x8 ds 95x8 Tris were blasted from this after the decline, hurt the rest of the workout in a good way!

Upright Rows - 95x8, 125x7 PR, 125x7 ds 105x6 ds 95x8

Machine Military - 140x9, 210x8x3 sets, 160x5 ds 120x5 Lost count, did an extra set, oh well.

Preacher Curls w/ BB - 65x8, 85x8, 85x8 ds 65x8 ds 55x8

So that is another 3 PRs, things are looking up! My legs are going to stay at that weight since my back was saying enough with 630... it is not worth injury. I can add reps and keep the drops coming at those weights and I am sure there will still be results. Weight was way up today, bad bad bad eating this weekend. Diet is getting dialed in and I want to be back under 190 again by Friday AM.

A little visual of 630 and the leg machine I am doing on place of traditional squats.

 

[Army Guy]

congrats on the PRs my friend, and that is a crazy looking contraption! I bet it smokes the legs though!

 

[oufinny]

congrats on the PRs my friend, and that is a crazy looking contraption! I bet it smokes the legs though!

It is brutal on the legs man, you can play with what muscles it focuses on very easily with foot placement on the angled platform. You actually step into it as you see it though I have seen those use it the other way as well, I on the other hand like doing it similar to a front squat. I forgot to mention that a trainer actually yelled at me for leaving so much weight on it and to go strip it whilst I was setting a PR on decline bench... let's just say I was slightly annoyed which had to be good for a few extra reps at 265!

 

[HATEFULone]

Nice work bro, my current gym doesn't have a hack squat so I've been doing the bb version, but nothing like the feel of stacking up the hack with some plates and doing drop sets.

 

[oufinny]

Monday workout and updates

Quick update for you all, in a wedding in about 10 days and I want to tighten up the midsection some so I threw in ECA two times a day to help. Right now I am HOT, like holy crap I took 3 AT-2 and 2 OEP hot. My CC combo and the Ephedrine HCL seem to get along well and throw Erase on top of it, good things happening with my metabolism. I will keep everything else consistent and dosages will not change though I may try Erase at 4 a day for a few days to see how I respond.

Workout from Monday night:

PWO supps:
AS-GT 1.25 scoops

Workout:
Calf Raises on leg press - 270x12, 450x12x2 ds 360x12 ds 270x12 DOMS in quads had me putting things off until Wednesday and calves have been neglected lately.

Incline DB Flys - 40x8, 60x8, 60x8PR, 50x8 ds 35x8 These were hard!!!! I needed something new to give the shoulders a break from all the benching, they liked the change I can tell you that.

BW Dips - 12x4 sets, short rest in between

DB Military Press - 45x8, 65x8, 65x8 ds 50x7 ds 40x6 Much harder than I imagined but a nice change from machine military; a spotter would have been a welcome addition though on the drop sets.

Seated Rows - 110x8, 160x6, 160x6 ds130x6 ds 110x6 That is equal to a PR in weight though I only got 6 reps, the drops were very high though and my back was loving the abuse.

Hercules curls - 9x8, 11x8, 12x8 ds 10x8 ds 9x8 (plates on cable machine)

Intensity was lacking today I have to admit so I toned it down a bit, cranked it up a little on different exercises and actually had a good workout all things considered. After work I am going to try and get out to take a walk for 20-30 minutes, I think I will have to since my leg won't stop shaking from 25 mg of E! I can see the attraction the ECA stack has when cutting, my energy levels are not in question that is for sure.

 

[Resolve]

Yeah, ECA is good stuff. Good luck getting ready for that wedding.

 

[rochabp]

which are you using? bronkaid or primatene?


...im not sure weather to give bronaid a shot

 

[Army Guy]

this wedding of which you speak... is it YOUR wedding????

 

[bludevil]

which are you using? bronkaid or primatene?


...im not sure weather to give bronaid a shot

I've read that the primatene (ephedrine hcl) is better

 

[oufinny]

which are you using? bronkaid or primatene?


...im not sure weather to give bronaid a shot

Bronkaid, got 60 for 12.99, how can you pass that up. Wedding is for my cousin Major, I have to propose before she marries my sorry a**!

New pwo mix today:
6 grams Citrulline Malate 2:1
1 scoop AS-GT
12.5 mg Ephedrine HCL (1/2 a bronkaid)

If I am not sweating from this, I really don't know what to say! :laugh2:

 

[scorp69]

great log. i'm going to try androhard. hopefully they don't run out before i can order. i did a cycle of turinabol in may/june. what is Erase?

 

[Resolve]

great log. i'm going to try androhard. hopefully they don't run out before i can order. i did a cycle of turinabol in may/june. what is Erase?

Erase is an AI put out by PES; so far, the feed back indicates it's quite strong. I've seen one instance of headaches reported as a side effect.

 

[oufinny]

Wednesday workout

I am really not in a good mood right now, just found out I have to have surgery on my toe in the not so distant future... and the recovery time is 8 freaking weeks! Anyways, at least my workout from yesterday was good.

Leg Press - 450x8, 630x8, 630x8 ds 540x8 ds 450x8 Not as hard as I thought though the Erase has my knees kind of dried out so that was not a great feeling.

Incline Bench - 155x8, 205x8 PR , 215x5 PR! ds 185x5 ds 155x8 These were good and I was really happy it went up without any shoulder discomfort. Incline is notoriously a literal pain in the shoulder for me on some days.

Tricep pushdowns with v-bar - 60x8, 85x8, 85x8 ds 65x8 ds 45x8 Hellatious pumps from these right after incline, burned so good.

T-bar wide grip - 115x8, 160x6, 160x6 ds 135x6 ds 90x8 I did not strap for the drops, man my grip was shot by the time I got to the last set of 90.

DB Shrugs - 80x8, 100x8, 100x8 ds 80x8 ds 65x8 Umm yeah, these were rough, all that needs to be said.

Standing bicep curls w/ ez bar - 65x8, 80x8 (straight bar), 80x8 ds 65x8 (ez bar) Bis were fried, I was fried, went home and made some steak.

Weight is down to 190 again, got to love lower carbs and ECA!

PP Supps - Getting down to the last portion of this run, GT is running low and Dermatherm Target is down to 1/4 of the bottle maybe. Starting to drop some water thanks to Erase otherwise actually appear about the same as I started just with a little more muscle. I was hoping for more definition to show through in my midsection but who am I kidding, my stress level and eating have been sub-optimal even on the best days. The fact I was able to set so many PRs and still put on a little muscle speaks volumes about AH and now Erase/AS-GT as I continue into PCT. I really should have ran Sustain Alpha to keep this all PP products but I want that for another time; sorry PP, I got greedy .

Oh yeah, AS-GT + 6 grams of CM = endurance and pumps. If you got it, do this!

 

[oufinny]

Erase is an AI put out by PES; so far, the feed back indicates it's quite strong. I've seen one instance of headaches reported as a side effect.

I would like to hear how this compares to Sustain Alpha even if SA is not strictly an AI. If you are on the fence on Erase, look at my last workouts since I started. It is the real deal and most don't need more than 3 per day, if that much (lot's respond well to 2).

 

[Rosie Chee]

great log. i'm going to try androhard. hopefully they don't run out before i can order. i did a cycle of turinabol in may/june. what is Erase?

As Nick said:

Erase is an AI put out by PES...

I would like to hear how this compares to Sustain Alpha even if SA is not strictly an AI. If you are on the fence on Erase, look at my last workouts since I started. It is the real deal and most don't need more than 3 per day, if that much (lot's respond well to 2).

You can't really compare Sustain Alpha to Erase. As I said in http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/161617-sustain-apha-erase.html:: Each will have different effects. Erase is more of an AI, whereas Sustain Alpha is an all-round testosterone booster.

Stacking both would work well - I may do this sometime, once I've used Erase standalone (end of November).

~Rosie~
The Primordial Woman

 

[punthra]

Nice workout bro...Sorry to hear about the upcoming surgery though.

 

[Resolve]

I'm sorry about the surgery man - at least it's just your toe and not something more serious.

Can you at least work upper body during recovery from that?

 

[DreamWeaver]

As Nick said:





You can't really compare Sustain Alpha to Erase. As I said in http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/161617-sustain-apha-erase.html:: Each will have different effects. Erase is more of an AI, whereas Sustain Alpha is an all-round testosterone booster.

Stacking both would work well - I may do this sometime, once I've used Erase standalone (end of November).

~Rosie~
The Primordial Woman

I'll be joining you Rosie that's what I plan for my PCT.. along with Testopro, HghPro and DAA bulk.

 

[DreamWeaver]

Ya sucks about the surgery, we all know how hard you've worked. This too shall pass though.

 

[Army Guy]

good luck my friend

 

[oufinny]

I'm sorry about the surgery man - at least it's just your toe and not something more serious.

Can you at least work upper body during recovery from that?

Nice workout bro...Sorry to hear about the upcoming surgery though.

I'll be joining you Rosie that's what I plan for my PCT.. along with Testopro, HghPro and DAA bulk.

Ya sucks about the surgery, we all know how hard you've worked. This too shall pass though.

good luck my friend

Thank you all for the kind words. Resolve is right, it is not a knee or shoulder though the damn recovery time is about as long! I should be able to do upper body for sure, probably just do something where I run some GH supps to help with recovery and a test booster to keep me lean. :sasmokin:

 

[DreamWeaver]

Thank you all for the kind words. Resolve is right, it is not a knee or shoulder though the damn recovery time is about as long! I should be able to do upper body for sure, probably just do something where I run some GH supps to help with recovery and a test booster to keep me lean. :sasmokin:

There you go, not that bad, give the wheels a rest, hey maybe completely trash them first b4 you go into surgery, got maintenance on upper body and kick the crap out of your legs then when you get back and can't train legs smash the fug out of your upper body... :sasmokin:

"Aren't you glad you know me and have access to my dimentia!!"

 

[gwls]

Sucks about your toe bro, but best to get sorted! Imagine what a beast you'll be when you you're training without a broken wheel!!

Great workouts too! (sorry been away on business this week)

 

[oufinny]

There you go, not that bad, give the wheels a rest, hey maybe completely trash them first b4 you go into surgery, got maintenance on upper body and kick the crap out of your legs then when you get back and can't train legs smash the fug out of your upper body... :sasmokin:

"Aren't you glad you know me and have access to my dimentia!!"

DW I wouldn't have it any other way! Actually that was my thought about the wheels . :haha:

Sucks about your toe bro, but best to get sorted! Imagine what a beast you'll be when you you're training without a broken wheel!!

Great workouts too! (sorry been away on business this week)

Appreciate you continuing to follow along. Today was rough, golfed 18 this morning, came home, had some good times with my gf, 2 scoops AS-GT + Erase + 25 mg Ephedrine = yet another PR! All this on my fifth day of low carbs, been under 100 grams all week. Today should be 400 grams before bed starting in a few minutes, then another 600 tomorrow before midnight. I know that if I kept it low carb I might lose just a little more before I leave Thursday but I am just doing this so I am slightly leaner than I was these last few weeks. Erase at 4 per day leans you the fug out! :sasmokin:

 

[oufinny]

Friday workout - 18 holes in the AM, 1 PR in the PM

Overdo update, I am going to keep this short. I was tired, in the sun for 4.5 hours then went to lift; ideal conditions I know so let's give kudos to AS-GT, it got me ready to tear it up by the time I was half way to the gym.

PWO Supps:
1 Erase
2 scoops AS-GT
1 bronkaid

Umm yeah I was awake after all of that goodness!

I can't find my workout and this weekend was such a blur I can't remember what the heck I really did. All I know is there was some heavy weights moved. Maybe I will remember what I did later, total mental block right now, all I know is I did bent over rows (my back was killing me Saturday from these, I killed them!). Also, there was a local radio show host working out when I was, Rod Ryan for those in Houston who might read this, and he was not that strong. Frankly, my warm ups were heavier than his heaviest sets; I felt pretty good about that.

Found my workout paper, here are few highlights:
Leg extension - 280x8x2 PR
Decline bench - 255x6
DB Overhead tri extensions - 105x8

Good news did come from this weekend - my GF got a job she started today and most likely another offer on top of that. Also, we met some cool people when we were out on Saturday night at dinner so that is a nice addition since friends are in short supply for us right now. Can't complain when you meet cool people and the female in the couple is cute and apparently somewhat of an exhibitionist, no complaints from yours truly AT ALL!

 

[oufinny]

Monday workout - AS-GT comes to the rescue

I was just not feeling it yesterday when I walked into the gym. The weekend involved two nights of excessive partying, something I rarely ever do anymore, and that always makes Monday's workout a beotch. Well no exception this day except after the first two exercises, I was on my game again.

PWO:
1 scoop AS-GT
~6 crams citrulline malate

Workout:
Pull Ups - BWx8x4 sets

Incline Bench Press - 155x8, 205x6, 205x6 ds 175x5 ds 135x6 Shoulder was barking at me for some reason, decided to not push it and all is good today. Brains sometimes prevail for the better... I will have to remember that. :thinking:

Dips - BWx10x4 sets Shoulders were ok with these but I had to watch my range of motion.

Hack/Front Squat machine - 450x8, 630x8, 630x8 PR (for reps) ds 540x8 ds 450x8 I was going to puss out on these but I said screw it and tore them up, back was painless at this weight which is a great improvement over the last time I did them.

Machine military press - 160x8, 210x8, 220x8 PR ds 160x6 ds 120x6 Shoulder was ok with these surprisingly, just that incline movement that bothered them. Or they weren't warm enough yet.

Preacher Curls - 70x8, 95x8, 95x8 ds 70x8 ds 45x8 Bis were blasted, pumped and forearms were rocks.

Walked/hobbled out of the gym after this one and was happy to make it out alive. My body is loving/hating the abuse I am giving it now but I am ready for a change. This is going to be my last week of the log and my last workout will most likely be tomorrow night; have a wedding in Iowa I am going to Thursday morning and the Marriott gym will surely suck donkey balls. If I can get a quick workout in one day I will try.

PP peeps - I will get reviews up for you all as soon as I can, maybe before I leave. My weight I will take on Thursday morning, it should be the most accurate and have me relatively carb depleted as well. I was at 191.6 this AM before the morning download... I am at 190 without question, no need to get into why I know that .

Initial final thoughts on the FLS + AndroHard - Loved the AH, the rest in all fairness probably helped keep me lean though I don't see that it did anything to get me more lean in my problem areas. I definitely added some mass to my shoulders/back/chest/legs so there may have been some fat loss and muscle gain keeping this a traditional recomp. My legs and arms are as lean as they have ever been and I attribute that to the AH and recently the addition of the ECA stack.

Topical fat burners like DermaTherm Target work for many I just don't seem to respond well to them; products like OEP (or any thermo) seem to work better for me. Also, the fact I tend to hold a lot of water on them is misleading because you really can't tell if you are leaning out or not... week 4 I looked like I had a bigger belly then when I started which was shocking. The addition of more water intake and Erase eliminated a lot of extra water and since I started those two it has stayed off so I appear leaner now than I did on the last day of AndroHard.

Full disclosure - CLA was not in stock when I started so it was not ran, it may have helped though I cannot say. Please keep this in mind when considering this stack in the future as it may give you better results then mine. One last thing, my personal life during this time s**t the bed to say the least, most stressful two months I have faced in recent memory. That and my diet did not help the situation though I was always on point with it 5 days a week; weekends killed me so consistency was marginal most weeks. Also, if you are going to run this stack and have will power issues when you are dieting and running low cals, get something for appetite suppression because the AH will have you hungry ALL THE TIME.

 

[bludevil]

Nice mini review

 

[HereToStudy]

Initial final thoughts on the FLS + AndroHard - Loved the AH, the rest in all fairness probably helped keep me lean though I don't see that it did anything to get me more lean in my problem areas. I definitely added some mass to my shoulders/back/chest/legs so there may have been some fat loss and muscle gain keeping this a traditional recomp. My legs and arms are as lean as they have ever been and I attribute that to the AH and recently the addition of the ECA stack.

Topical fat burners like DermaTherm Target work for many I just don't seem to respond well to them; products like OEP (or any thermo) seem to work better for me. Also, the fact I tend to hold a lot of water on them is misleading because you really can't tell if you are leaning out or not... week 4 I looked like I had a bigger belly then when I started which was shocking. The addition of more water intake and Erase eliminated a lot of extra water and since I started those two it has stayed off so I appear leaner now than I did on the last day of AndroHard.

Full disclosure - CLA was not in stock when I started so it was not ran, it may have helped though I cannot say. Please keep this in mind when considering this stack in the future as it may give you better results then mine. One last thing, my personal life during this time s**t the bed to say the least, most stressful two months I have faced in recent memory. That and my diet did not help the situation though I was always on point with it 5 days a week; weekends killed me so consistency was marginal most weeks. Also, if you are going to run this stack and have will power issues when you are dieting and running low cals, get something for appetite suppression because the AH will have you hungry ALL THE TIME.

Thanks for the review! Reps.

 

[MrKleen73]

Good stuff not so great on the surgery but at least you will be able to fix it. I am sure one the stitches are out of it 2-3 weeks in you can do some leg extensions and leg curls. Not at first the increase in blood flow would make it throb something fierce but after that there isn't any reason you couldn't to leg extensions and curls. You don't have to bare any weight.

 

[MrKleen73]

Oh yeah I am so happy you posted a picture of the Front/Hack Squat machine I was starting to feel inferior on my hacks. The way you are explaining them going face first into that machine primarily hits your posterior chain, glutes, hips, and hamstrings so you can move a ton of weight that way. If you turn around and put your back against the pad then do them they are more like Hack of front squats and hit primarily the quads.

Some times I like to get on that bad boy load it with as many plates as i can round up and do high reps facing in not out. I have actually hit 3 sets of 15 with 22 plates on that beast and could have kept repping. Of course I have a big ol ghetto booty too, so plenty of azz to move that weight. I do love that machine though. Sometimes I like to do it like this. Barbell Squats - Hacks on that machine (facing out), then Reverse hacks (facing into machine) on that machine with more weight. It progresses really well and gradually works you through until you wear out the strongest muscles last. When you get done with your surgery give that progression a shot one day on legs.

 

[oufinny]

The question is when do I get it? I am thinking the first week after Halloween so I can actually start to work out in January at a normal level (on my legs). That way I can still shread up for the spring/summer of 2011.

 

[MrKleen73]

The question is when do I get it? I am thinking the first week after Halloween so I can actually start to work out in January at a normal level (on my legs). That way I can still shread up for the spring/summer of 2011.

Well that works or if trying to save on time off schedule for like Friday before Thanksgiving week and take of that whole week but only have to use 3 days of PTO time. If you watch your intake you shouldn't have to worry to much about cutting up. Heck you can probably even ride the stationary bike after a few weeks if you are careful. Either way at least you will be getting fixed up.

 

[oufinny]

Well that works or if trying to save on time off schedule for like Friday before Thanksgiving week and take of that whole week but only have to use 3 days of PTO time. If you watch your intake you shouldn't have to worry to much about cutting up. Heck you can probably even ride the stationary bike after a few weeks if you are careful. Either way at least you will be getting fixed up.

Unlike Brandon who was up and around after knee surgery pretty much a few days later, this one due to the fact bones are actually shaved/cut/screw put in place, has a longer time period before you can work on it. Exercise bike is in the 5-6 week time frame for fast healers, moderate load bearing after 8. I cannot do jack diddly squat for the first two weeks legs wise, though I will surely be doing some upper body work!

I don't care about the PTO or sick time, my company is so small that if I say I have to take off for surgery, it will be a "take as long as you need" type of attitude since we are not busy right now. I would most likely schedule it for a day my GF is off work in the beginning of the week then come back a few days later after the hard drugs aren't necessary (for pain). Rumor on the street is this one is not a fun surgery to recover from if you don't follow doctor's orders; swelling can become a HUGE problem for years if you aren't super careful the first two weeks. I am going to talk with my mom this weekend when I see her, she is an ICU nurse, so she has some thoughts on what is the best course of action.

My next question is what can I run up until I get the surgery??? I have some very exciting things under my sink right now that are so tempting but PCT while being cut open is probably a bad idea! Also, I want something that acts fast so I can get some results quickly right after I get back from this wedding over the weekend. Going to start a separate "let's design my stack" thread to get all your input, will post the link here in a few.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/161974-help-oufinny-design.html#post2604609

 

[Rosie Chee]

Initial final thoughts on the FLS + AndroHard - Loved the AH, the rest in all fairness probably helped keep me lean though I don't see that it did anything to get me more lean in my problem areas. I definitely added some mass to my shoulders/back/chest/legs so there may have been some fat loss and muscle gain keeping this a traditional recomp. My legs and arms are as lean as they have ever been and I attribute that to the AH and recently the addition of the ECA stack.

Topical fat burners like DermaTherm Target work for many I just don't seem to respond well to them; products like OEP (or any thermo) seem to work better for me. Also, the fact I tend to hold a lot of water on them is misleading because you really can't tell if you are leaning out or not... week 4 I looked like I had a bigger belly then when I started which was shocking. The addition of more water intake and Erase eliminated a lot of extra water and since I started those two it has stayed off so I appear leaner now than I did on the last day of AndroHard.

Full disclosure - CLA was not in stock when I started so it was not ran, it may have helped though I cannot say. Please keep this in mind when considering this stack in the future as it may give you better results then mine. One last thing, my personal life during this time s**t the bed to say the least, most stressful two months I have faced in recent memory. That and my diet did not help the situation though I was always on point with it 5 days a week; weekends killed me so consistency was marginal most weeks. Also, if you are going to run this stack and have will power issues when you are dieting and running low cals, get something for appetite suppression because the AH will have you hungry ALL THE TIME.

Thanks for your feedback and review, bud! Nothing like a successful recomp

Most topicals cause water retention - I get this with all of them except DermaTherm and LipoBURN - but a few days after stopping them that water goes, giving you a better indication of how they have helped.

Appetite suppressants don't work for everyone - I know they certainly have NO effect on me. If you're struggling with your diet, then find a method that you can use where you are not starving yourself on low calories, that is easier to maintain and works WITH your body to help re progress.

 

[MrKleen73]

Unlike Brandon who was up and around after knee surgery pretty much a few days later, this one due to the fact bones are actually shaved/cut/screw put in place, has a longer time period before you can work on it. Exercise bike is in the 5-6 week time frame for fast healers, moderate load bearing after 8. I cannot do jack diddly squat for the first two weeks legs wise, though I will surely be doing some upper body work!

I don't care about the PTO or sick time, my company is so small that if I say I have to take off for surgery, it will be a "take as long as you need" type of attitude since we are not busy right now. I would most likely schedule it for a day my GF is off work in the beginning of the week then come back a few days later after the hard drugs aren't necessary (for pain). Rumor on the street is this one is not a fun surgery to recover from if you don't follow doctor's orders; swelling can become a HUGE problem for years if you aren't super careful the first two weeks. I am going to talk with my mom this weekend when I see her, she is an ICU nurse, so she has some thoughts on what is the best course of action.

My next question is what can I run up until I get the surgery??? I have some very exciting things under my sink right now that are so tempting but PCT while being cut open is probably a bad idea! Also, I want something that acts fast so I can get some results quickly right after I get back from this wedding over the weekend. Going to start a separate "let's design my stack" thread to get all your input, will post the link here in a few.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/161974-help-oufinny-design.html#post2604609

Man that really sucks but you can grow the heck out of that upper body. Do whatever you need to do tomake sure you are healing up right. 8 weeks is not really that long. Think about it, it seems my wife got surgery the other day and she is going back to work next week after 6 weeks out. Now on thing to consider is that you will probably need to use machines for most everything for a while since you can't use our legs to push for stabilization. I would use a lot of Hammer Strength during this time. Also this may be the perfect time to do an Arm Specific program you know one of the add an inch to your arms programs. There was a good one in the older Asteroid Stack manual and I still have it in PDF format I can email it to you to look at.

 

[oufinny]

Final review

See first page for final review.

 

[HereToStudy]

Thanks for the very detailed review, good stuff!

P.S. You killed it on strength with this cycle!

 

[oufinny]

Thanks for the very detailed review, good stuff!

P.S. You killed it on strength with this cycle!

Here is the kicker, I still have it all! :cheers:

 

[Resolve]

Very thorough review, thanks man!

 

[HereToStudy]

Here is the kicker, I still have it all! :cheers:

Nice!

 

[MrKleen73]

Damn good review Matt!

Final review:
Starting weight ~190
Finishing weight ~190

Verdict: Recomp at its finest

AndroHard thoughts:
Strength/mass gains - 10/10 This is where it shined. Here are some highlights for you...
Flat Bench - 205x8 --> 235x6
Decline Bench - 225x8 -->265x8
Hack/Front Squat machine - 540x8 -->630x8
Machine shoulder press - 180x6-->210x8
Saw leaning out in arms/shoulders and mass gains throughout my entire back and legs. Waste line stayed the same as well.

Sides - 6.5/10 Initial issues with my prostate, solved very quickly with some saw palmetto I picked up at Vitamin Shoppe. If you are prone to issues, I suggest you pick something up and start it 7-14 days before to be safe. Acne was prolific and downright annoying starting week 3 all the way until the end. It was on face/back/chest and did not go away very easily. Slight back pumps doing bent over DB rows so I could not do those but that was the only instance and I could work around them with no problems.

Anti-estrogen effects - 7/10 I did not drop a ton of water like I thought I would have in the mid section though my arms/legs did look mean after about 3 weeks for the duration. Vascularity was pretty off the chain after week 2 as well and continued to get better.

Pumps - N/A I did not dose this pre-workout except a few times and I didn't notice any extra pumps from AH alone.

Overall - 8/10 It is expensive and if dosed per the bottle, it is only 25 days worth so you really have to want it to justify the cost [then again, it is being discontinued so...]. Also, it may be an issue for those that have prostate sensitivity to hormonal compounds. I would recommend this if you are looking for a safe and effective PH that gives unreal strength gains even at a diminished dose like I took.

Green Tea - 7/10 I did not notice any feelings from this product to be honest except I believe it did assist when I started ECA near the end with thermogenesis.

CLA - Not present during this run

Dermatherm Target Thoughts:
Absorption/application - 8/10 Pleasant smell of cinnamon with minimal burning on sporadic occasions.

Fat Loss - 5/10 Topicals really are hit or miss with me and this was the second time I ran DT-T with the same results. Yes I had some water retention but once I did my PCT with Erase I drop a good amount of water and my abs were not any bit leaner though I didn't gain fat either, hence the 5/10. If you respond to topicals, this may work very well for you but it did not for me.

Water retention - 9/10 I held a lot of water around the midsection the whole time I used this. 1/10 would be no retention, this got a 9/10.

Stim effects - N/A even though it contains theophyline. I could use this before bed and I would sleep fine (not that I did) so if you were to apply in later in the day you have nothing to worry about.

Overall - 5.5/10 I did not gain any fat nor did I lose any. My diet was not perfect but I believe that there should have been some noticeable changes and I really did not see any.

Overall Stack Rating - 7.5/10 I would recommend this to anyone just for the AndroHard alone though if you respond to non-stim fat burning products and/or topicals, this may work extremely well for you.

PP I would like to thank you for the chance to run this and I enjoyed the 8 weeks I used them. It is a shame that AndroHard may be going away (hopefully not!), you have a winner there. I had high hopes for Dermatherm but I put myself in the non-responder category and don't believe that it is a problem with the product at all, the ingredients are sound as is your delivery system.

 

[bludevil]

Nice review:thumbsup:

 

[Rosie Chee]

Final review:
Starting weight ~190
Finishing weight ~190

Verdict: Recomp at its finest

AndroHard thoughts:
Strength/mass gains - 10/10 This is where it shined. Here are some highlights for you...
Flat Bench - 205x8 --> 235x6
Decline Bench - 225x8 -->265x8
Hack/Front Squat machine - 540x8 -->630x8
Machine shoulder press - 180x6-->210x8
Saw leaning out in arms/shoulders and mass gains throughout my entire back and legs. Waste line stayed the same as well.

Sides - 6.5/10 Initial issues with my prostate, solved very quickly with some saw palmetto I picked up at Vitamin Shoppe. If you are prone to issues, I suggest you pick something up and start it 7-14 days before to be safe. Acne was prolific and downright annoying starting week 3 all the way until the end. It was on face/back/chest and did not go away very easily. Slight back pumps doing bent over DB rows so I could not do those but that was the only instance and I could work around them with no problems.

Anti-estrogen effects - 7/10 I did not drop a ton of water like I thought I would have in the mid section though my arms/legs did look mean after about 3 weeks for the duration. Vascularity was pretty off the chain after week 2 as well and continued to get better.

Pumps - N/A I did not dose this pre-workout except a few times and I didn't notice any extra pumps from AH alone.

Overall - 8/10 It is expensive and if dosed per the bottle, it is only 25 days worth so you really have to want it to justify the cost [then again, it is being discontinued so...]. Also, it may be an issue for those that have prostate sensitivity to hormonal compounds. I would recommend this if you are looking for a safe and effective PH that gives unreal strength gains even at a diminished dose like I took.

Green Tea - 7/10 I did not notice any feelings from this product to be honest except I believe it did assist when I started ECA near the end with thermogenesis.

CLA - Not present during this run

Dermatherm Target Thoughts:
Absorption/application - 8/10 Pleasant smell of cinnamon with minimal burning on sporadic occasions.

Fat Loss - 5/10 Topicals really are hit or miss with me and this was the second time I ran DT-T with the same results. Yes I had some water retention but once I did my PCT with Erase I drop a good amount of water and my abs were not any bit leaner though I didn't gain fat either, hence the 5/10. If you respond to topicals, this may work very well for you but it did not for me.

Water retention - 9/10 I held a lot of water around the midsection the whole time I used this. 1/10 would be no retention, this got a 9/10.

Stim effects - N/A even though it contains theophyline. I could use this before bed and I would sleep fine (not that I did) so if you were to apply in later in the day you have nothing to worry about.

Overall - 5.5/10 I did not gain any fat nor did I lose any. My diet was not perfect but I believe that there should have been some noticeable changes and I really did not see any.

Overall Stack Rating - 7.5/10 I would recommend this to anyone just for the AndroHard alone though if you respond to non-stim fat burning products and/or topicals, this may work extremely well for you.

PP I would like to thank you for the chance to run this and I enjoyed the 8 weeks I used them. It is a shame that AndroHard may be going away (hopefully not!), you have a winner there. I had high hopes for Dermatherm but I put myself in the non-responder category and don't believe that it is a problem with the product at all, the ingredients are sound as is your delivery system.

You note that your weight did NOT change, but you "Saw leaning out in arms/shoulders and mass gains throughout my entire back and legs" while your waist "stayed the same as well", and yet you later say, "I did not gain any fat nor did I lose any", admittedly with less than optimal nutrition. Contradicts itself - you obviously lost bodyfat and gained muscle mass, a definite recomp, which is a definite :thumbsup:

As far as the water retention you experienced on DermaTherm Target - this is NORMAL DURING usage of the product, but a few days after you STOP using it, that water retention goes away and you get a better indicator of how the product worked. Just a note for future reference. Although, yes, not every product works for everyone, and I prefer the ORIGINAL DermaTherm personally myself.

Thank you for your log and detailed review, bud

~Rosie~
The Primordial Woman

 

[oufinny]

You note that your weight did NOT change, but you "Saw leaning out in arms/shoulders and mass gains throughout my entire back and legs" while your waist "stayed the same as well", and yet you later say, "I did not gain any fat nor did I lose any", admittedly with less than optimal nutrition. Contradicts itself - you obviously lost bodyfat and gained muscle mass, a definite recomp, which is a definite :thumbsup:
=

I was referring to my midsection/lower back area. In those areas, I did not see any gain or loss so though I was not as clear as I could have been, I did not contradict myself . I do appreciate your feedback though Rosie.