poopypants
Banned
Hey Chuck the SERM is considerably stronger any day then DT... and does DT have ANY anti-estrogenic properties???
this isnt JUST about boosting test when it comes to PCT NYC.... you NEED both or at least an AI in the mix....
Phera and Epi log by nycste
- Thread starter nycste
- Start date
Hey Chuck the SERM is considerably stronger any day then DT... and does DT have ANY anti-estrogenic properties???
this isnt JUST about boosting test when it comes to PCT NYC.... you NEED both or at least an AI in the mix....
poopypants
Banned
the ingredient list below is definately good for helping test production.... not a single one to my knowledge will control est.... unless i can otherwise be corrected id have to say your much better off running all 3 there NYC... Restore has Cortisol blocking properties and many other benificial post cycle therapy supports... its worth keeping your gains to take it...
nycste
Well-known member
hummmm... thanks for your input not gonna take restore today but ill start tomm if maybe another one or two peeps agree with you.
kabuki a good buddy of mine on these forums and MMI did a finigex halo50 cycle and his PCT was SERM + DTHC and said things were alright but not sure if he got any tests done afterwards or anything.
but you guys are the one with the experience so i trust ya !!
TripDog
Bananas
:clap2: :hammer: :hammer: :goodpost:
Chuck Diesel
Are you Diesel?
I dont even have to comment on what you just said.
On 2nd thought:
U (or someone else) tell me whats wrong with that statement.
Chuck Diesel
Are you Diesel?
Ok, well use the products (any product) how ever you want. He already has the DTH, how am I pushing it? Im simply saying PCT, to get ur HTPA back to normal DTH works.....and works without SERM's or this or that product.
Chuck Diesel
Are you Diesel?
???
TripDog
Bananas
exactly !!!!!
TripDog
Bananas
:clap2: :thumbsup: :goodpost: :hammer: :hammer:
Chuck Diesel
Are you Diesel?
What you need to do is go back and UNDERSTAND what I was saying. He already has DTH. He was going to use it PCT. He was going to stack it with a SERM and restore. When using DTH during PCT there is no need to stack it with any product that affects the HTPA. I dont have to push GET DIESEL products on here to sell them, we advertise and has been at this for over 5 years now.
The comment that other guy made:
"Do you really want dumb kids doing that????"
I found that funny, like no I dont want dumb kids doing that after their prosteroid/steroid cycle.
I dont want kids using prosteroids/steroids in the first place.
I didnt say dont take anything for you liver etc, PCT, I was talking in terms of HTPA restoration. But anyway he already has the products he want to use PCT (as in PCT for his HTPA) he can use them however he wants or take my advice or any of you guys advice, I was just saying as the person who formulated DTH and as someone who works closely with powerlifters who do cycles yearly and being in this business since 2002 that was my opion. Unfortunately I have never done a cycle of any steroid or prosteroid so Im not talking from personal experience with PCT with or without DTH or with or without a SERM. But you do look like you do cycles on a regular, so next cycle PM me and I will send you a bottle of DT Hardcore and you can do a review on how you like DTH PCT as ur only HTPA restoration product.
Chuck Diesel
Are you Diesel?
Ur right on most herbal test boosters, but there are logs on here and at bodybuilding.com dating back 2 years of people who used the various forms of DT released over the years during PCT and some with blood work, and a few people who used DTH after they tried the nolva, rebound, serm, blabla, and showed a fast recovery. So yeah most BS nat. test boosters shouldnt be sold as something to use during PCT, but DTH is proven to be effective post cycle therapy. Do some searching.
edit:
Invalid Link Removed
poopypants
Banned
Chuck Diesel said:
again Chuck im sure DTH is GREAT with other products in a post cycle therapy BUT it has no anti Estrogenic properties and will not stop you from being susceptable to those sides... a SERM WILL! so my only critisism is saying you dont have to use a serm and can use DTH solo for a PCT... even your qouted log above says "SERM/Diesel Test Hardcore post cycle therapy"..... im sure it wouldnt have been that high without the SERM....
Chuck Diesel
Are you Diesel?
every review for DT that has had blood work show a drop in estrogen. Like I said there are PCT logs with just DT here and at bb.com. A SERM isnt going to do that by itself. So dont say DT has no anti-estogenic properties.
from bb.com:
this wasnt pct (above) just posted to show test results on estodiol.
So you guys can speculate whatever. Use it with a Serm without thats up 2 you, but DT does reduce estrodiol and is an effective 100% natural herbal supplement for HTPA restoration duing PCT.
poopypants
Banned
true that the more test you have in your body the more est it will try to produce as well... and you have to block that est (wich is probally already sky high depending on the compound and wether or not your body sees it as something that it needs to raise Est to match)..... ony a SERM or a powerfull AI is suitable for this job... id prefer the first as its a sure thing..... actualy I prefer both an AI and a SERM run inversely... Restore has 6-Bromo an AI.... hmmm. take it.
Chuck Diesel
Are you Diesel?
You need to do some homework on DTH.
poopypants
Banned
SERM wont block est and raise test by itself??? oh man ive been goin all wrong bout this.. thatnks for telling me ill just stop taking them then... THATS EXACTLY WHAT ITS FOR MAN!
thanks for the blood on the DTH though that is quite interesting and i give more props to DTH then previously..... but i still think your mixed up as to what a SERM will and wont do....
poopypants
Banned
:blink: :blink: calm down Kujo.... lol gixxer is a bit touchy when it comes to his boyfriend...
TripDog
Bananas
i would never waste my money on such garbage....look at my pic!!! do i really need sh*t in a bottle named dth..............no!!....thank-you
TripDog
Bananas
i'm done being a diplomat:aargh:
Hes only my boyfriend on mondays and wednesdays. :rasp:
theres still 5 days of the week open, if you know.
it's still wednsday for a half hour.....*wink,wink*
nycste
Well-known member
wow i missed a lot again. anyways i hope everyone gets along.
i think many of you have made valid points.
wish you could all come to a conclusion.
its too bad most of u disagree so much with chuck. and interesting none the less that chuck feels that this product DTHC is good enuff for most if not all PCT plans on cycles. i mean why then even make SERMS cuz there are at least 4 relaly popular ones proven to work.
anyways i dont know about all this science stuff. i ask questions and look for smart responses.
its interesting that according to that last test result DTHC did reduce estrogen and did things that a proper PCT should. but that guy also wasnt coming off a cycle.
i think many of you have made valid points.
wish you could all come to a conclusion.
its too bad most of u disagree so much with chuck. and interesting none the less that chuck feels that this product DTHC is good enuff for most if not all PCT plans on cycles. i mean why then even make SERMS cuz there are at least 4 relaly popular ones proven to work.
anyways i dont know about all this science stuff. i ask questions and look for smart responses.
its interesting that according to that last test result DTHC did reduce estrogen and did things that a proper PCT should. but that guy also wasnt coming off a cycle.
poopypants
Banned
lets just say you got both right? will taking both hurt?? better safe then sorry.... BUT this discussion has probally got me trying DHT in the future...
Chuck Diesel
Are you Diesel?
I was saying from Kabuki's results because he used a SERM product + nat. test booster before, then used SERM with DTH.
I know what SERM's do, real SERMS do block estrogen from binding and strong ones like Nolvadex increase LH quiet a bit. Once again I was saying the SERM isnt the only reason why his PCT resulted the way it did on SERM then DTH close to the end of the SERM.
Chuck Diesel
Are you Diesel?
Real SERMS do work, Im talking Nolvadex and Clomid with Nolva being the stronger mg for mg, but they also come with side effects. Some place I read Nolvadex reduces IGF-1. The thing to do is understand completely how products work. SERMS dont reduce estrogen (well Nolva), they prevent estrogen from binding. I think the whole SERM during PCT started from when people were taking steroids that covert to estogen (not all anabolic compounds will increase estrogen) and they found Clomid and Nolva to reduce estrogen binding. Another reason why they use those to is when your body realizes its estrogen isnt binding for some reason it cranks up LH to produce more test to produce more estrogen so PCT to me SERMS help get ur LH going but its more of a "sythetic" or "trick" system to raise ur LH. I think by time you come off the SERM your body just naturally would have recovered by then because a SERM doesnt "restart" the HTPA. It more likes tricks ur body into making more LH.
Anyway this doesnt need to go on and on. You guys are the ones who decide what you use PCT just like you decide what you use during cycle. But you just cant assume ur going to have high estogen post cycle because there are many different anabolic compounds and they all don’t convert or increase estrogen.
Chuck Diesel
Are you Diesel?
Look at my pic, do I really need steroids......no.....and I got Bolas Grande.
Get results from training however you need 2. That has nothing to to with DTH. If your current PCT is working for you stick with it.
pistonpump
Banned
that is weird how DTH reduced estrogen in that one particular bloodwork...what ingredient does this?
EasyEJL
Never enough
you know what this discussion really makes me wonder? how different PCT needs are for you young pricks who still have testosterone boiling out of every orifice, and for old bastards like me who are hitting the low end of the T scale on blood tests to where the doctor talks about prescription help for it. I wonder if I need as much of a PCT anyhow, since its already so low to begin with. Once you are shut down, you are shut down, I might only need a nudge to hit my normal level, while a 21 year old might require a swift kick 
TripDog
Bananas
none!!! dont believe some random bloodwork unless it's monitored and done in a controlled environment(the whole process)....do you know for certain thats all he took.....give me a fukcin break chuck,dont insult people's intelligence to promote your bottle of crap......maybe it is a good test booster...who knows,who cares thats not the point.....SERMS SHOULD BE THE BREAD AND BUTTER OF EVERY POST CYCLE THERAPY..........PERIOD
pistonpump
Banned
im with you trip, SERMs are the way for PCT even if it is dosed low for less suppressive cycles, its use is just like knowing what 1+1=. If you dont believe it do a PCT without it after being shutdown and tell me that an AI or DTH will bring you back and not have you feeling like ass. Not saying that other things need not be applied to PCT but SERM should be the base.
I just would like to see if there would be any explaination chuck could give for the decrease of estra by his product standalone. Sounds like something else the guy mustve used along with it.
Chuck Diesel
Are you Diesel?
Everyone who has got estrodiol checked on DT any version has shown a drop. I cant explain it because its a formulation reason, not a single ingredient reason which will only benfit my comp.
Chuck Diesel
Are you Diesel?
Thats a BS statement because many people get blood work done post cycle and your saying if their levels are low its just some random bloodwork cuz it wasnt monitored and done in a controlled environement? People always make comments like that when something works. Im not taking offense to you called DTH a bottle of crap because it works, so you can call it whatever.
SERMS are a good addition for post cycle therapy that used a substance that increases estrodiol or if you want a fail safe temp increase in LH post cycle. All steroidial substances dont increase estogen levels. You saying if someone used something like superdrol SERMS do the trick for their post cycle therapy....because there are tons of logs on here and bb.com where SERMS didnt work for superdrol users.
Anyway Im done on this thread, he said hes going to stack the SERM with DTH then save the restore. That should produce good results for his PCT. If he decide to use DTH by itself then use his SERM/Restore that would work for him also, If he decide to use his SERM/Restore 1st then DTH standalone, thats cool. Bottom line he is using DTH in his PCT with whatever and Im pretty sure it will prove to be a good PCT with increased strength gains, libido, and recover.
You take care TripDog.
read this log: Invalid Link Removed. com/showthread.php?t=800994
So say what you want but dont say DT doesnt work for recovery of the HTPA. Tripdog, I know ur going to make some stupid a** comment about his estrodiol going up 3 points.
TripDog
Bananas
im not trying to bash your product..i just dont agree with you...
Chuck Diesel
Are you Diesel?
TripDog
Bananas
well i'll be the bigger man and say sorry....personally i love suplements in gereral..iv'e used some test boosters in the past but was most impressed with designer suplements "Activate"....
Chuck Diesel
Are you Diesel?
prob. cuz u havent used DT, but anyway like I said a long time ago, next PCT, when ur about 10 days left on ur cycle, PM and I will let u use DTH and u stack it what whatever and log it.
TripDog
Bananas
good stuff chuck.....im runnin a test/boldenone/superdrol cycle in a few weeks and im gonna log it here on AM...:thumbsup:
Chuck Diesel
Are you Diesel?
ok well pm me at about 15 days left on cycle, to start the DTH 3 days left on cycle with whatever. Thats a hard cycle, u might need a nuts transplant. You ever done that before? What did u use post cycle therapy?
TripDog
Bananas
a ran a similar cycle(12 weeker) like 2 months ago....used toremifine(sp),clomid,anastrozole,alpha drive,restore,igf-1lr3,cjc-1295,and ghrp-6........bounced back very,very fast..
pistonpump
Banned
Chuck Diesel
Are you Diesel?
EasyEJL
Never enough
Chuck Diesel
Are you Diesel?
I hope so with all that. U gonna stack the DTH with toremifine(sp),clomid,anastrozole,igf-1lr3,cjc-1295,and ghrp-6?
TripDog
Bananas
def gonna use torm,clomid,some sort of A.I(armidex prolly),ghrp-6,hexeralin,and igf-lr3(im a huge peptide fan) as the foudation of my post cycle....i'm gonna add some "DTH"(complments of chuck D).....it's gonna be a sweet log and cycle...
Chuck Diesel
Are you Diesel?
I was wondering if you even started PCT, i didnt see any updates.
nycste
Well-known member
yes i did. today is day 2 DTHC. and update posting soon
with some measurements no pictures cuz i freaking hate myself
nycste
Well-known member
08/15
Day DONE post cycle therapy STARTED
Weight in morning WHO GIVES A SH IT
Wk 6 Toremifene 120mg(2ml) first 4days then down to 90 / Diesel Test Hardcore /restore
Wk 7 Toremifene 90mg(1.5ml) / Diesel Test Hardcore /restore
Wk 8 Toremifene 60mg(1ml) / Diesel Test Hardcore /restore
Wk 9 Toremifene 30mg(.5ml) / Diesel Test Hardcore /restore
08/16 TODAY
Day 2 post cycle therapy
Weight in morning WHO GIVES A SH IT will weight soon.
-took first serving of SERM last night.
-5 pills into diesel test hardcore one more left tonight.
-two pills in on restore
-and had a good workout tonight and was able to makeup for the 2 exercises i did not do other night
post cycle therapy
AND
Invalid Link Removed
Measurement LOG SECTION
Measurements taken on 07/06
Neck 17.5 relaxed
Around Shoulders 48 relaxed (2 less then ALRI log)
Chest 45.75 flexed 47.5
waist at bellie button 38
forearms 12.25 flexed 13.10
Bi/Tri 14.5 flexed 16 (.5 bigger flexed)
Low Thigh 21.25
High Thigh 25
Calve 16 (+.5 from start)
measurements taken on 7/18
Day 15 Phera 30mg
Day 02 Epi 10mg
Weight= 209 (+7)
Neck 18 (+.5) relaxed
Around Shoulders 48 relaxed (nochange)
Chest 46 (+.25) flexed 47.9 (+.4)
waist at bellie button 37.6 (-.4)
forearms 12.25 (nochange) flexed 13.25 (+.15)
Bi/Tri 14.5 (nochange) flexed 16 (nochange)
mid thigh 24
High Thigh 25 (nochange)
Calve 16 (nochange)
Measurements taken on 8/16
Weight= 212/213
Neck 17.75 relaxed
Around Shoulders 49 relaxed
Chest 46.5 flexed 48
waist at bellie button 38
forearms 13 flexed 13.25
Bi/Tri 14.5 flexed 16.5
mid thigh 24
High Thigh 25.2
Calve 16
SUMMARY OF CYCLE JUST DONE
-gained about 10lbs total with most if it by week 2.5, weight didnt change for the following 3.5 weeks.
-i dont think i leaned out at all waist stayed about the same the entire cycle.
-i am happy with my results from the pheraplex gaining 10lbs while on that and nothing changeing in reguards to weight after that
-i started the cycle with a new workout routine. throughtout the cycle i made great progress. not to PR after PR. but progresss to closing in on my older PRs. tonights workout is making me really close !!!
-i dont want to say im dissapointed with epistane but all i did was make continunal progress which is great but that should happen with proper diet and training anyway. i know phera gave me 10lbs.
-side effects started off horrible. they must be from the pheraplex or the fact that i wasnt spreading out my support supplements when i took phera and epistane dosages.
-side effects went away towards the middle of my cycle i think and i really spreadout any support supplements away from dosages of phera and or epistane.
-just started my rehab or PCT which will last about 4 weeks unless i spread it out to 6 but that might not be recommened we shall see i will ask you guys what you think. that would requre lowering the dosages and just extending it a week or two
-hope this summary was decent. not sure what else to mention. o yea
-acne. nothing really changed for the most part. my back has actually cleared up alittle. while my chest maybe got alittle worse. nothing out of the norm.
-headaches happened on and off mostly only during certain workouts they were pretty painfull but never lasted long and dont recall having them away from my workouts
-libido talk actually confuses me because i dont know much about it or how to explain it properly and im sure ill be made fun of on one of these forums for this following post.
-im pretty sure my pecker has gotten smaller. or at least while not hard it is smaller. my balls i think got alittle smaller too. i want to say that i was really horny all cycle but im always really horny anyway.
-and actually having a hard time staying hard sometimes during umm whackoff
-well this is as honest as i can make this log. i look foward to PCT. and look foward to any advice anyone wants to share
Day DONE post cycle therapy STARTED
Weight in morning WHO GIVES A SH IT
Wk 6 Toremifene 120mg(2ml) first 4days then down to 90 / Diesel Test Hardcore /restore
Wk 7 Toremifene 90mg(1.5ml) / Diesel Test Hardcore /restore
Wk 8 Toremifene 60mg(1ml) / Diesel Test Hardcore /restore
Wk 9 Toremifene 30mg(.5ml) / Diesel Test Hardcore /restore
08/16 TODAY
Day 2 post cycle therapy
Weight in morning WHO GIVES A SH IT will weight soon.
-took first serving of SERM last night.
-5 pills into diesel test hardcore one more left tonight.
-two pills in on restore
-and had a good workout tonight and was able to makeup for the 2 exercises i did not do other night
post cycle therapy
AND
Invalid Link Removed
Measurement LOG SECTION
Measurements taken on 07/06
Neck 17.5 relaxed
Around Shoulders 48 relaxed (2 less then ALRI log)
Chest 45.75 flexed 47.5
waist at bellie button 38
forearms 12.25 flexed 13.10
Bi/Tri 14.5 flexed 16 (.5 bigger flexed)
Low Thigh 21.25
High Thigh 25
Calve 16 (+.5 from start)
measurements taken on 7/18
Day 15 Phera 30mg
Day 02 Epi 10mg
Weight= 209 (+7)
Neck 18 (+.5) relaxed
Around Shoulders 48 relaxed (nochange)
Chest 46 (+.25) flexed 47.9 (+.4)
waist at bellie button 37.6 (-.4)
forearms 12.25 (nochange) flexed 13.25 (+.15)
Bi/Tri 14.5 (nochange) flexed 16 (nochange)
mid thigh 24
High Thigh 25 (nochange)
Calve 16 (nochange)
Measurements taken on 8/16
Weight= 212/213
Neck 17.75 relaxed
Around Shoulders 49 relaxed
Chest 46.5 flexed 48
waist at bellie button 38
forearms 13 flexed 13.25
Bi/Tri 14.5 flexed 16.5
mid thigh 24
High Thigh 25.2
Calve 16
SUMMARY OF CYCLE JUST DONE
-gained about 10lbs total with most if it by week 2.5, weight didnt change for the following 3.5 weeks.
-i dont think i leaned out at all waist stayed about the same the entire cycle.
-i am happy with my results from the pheraplex gaining 10lbs while on that and nothing changeing in reguards to weight after that
-i started the cycle with a new workout routine. throughtout the cycle i made great progress. not to PR after PR. but progresss to closing in on my older PRs. tonights workout is making me really close !!!
-i dont want to say im dissapointed with epistane but all i did was make continunal progress which is great but that should happen with proper diet and training anyway. i know phera gave me 10lbs.
-side effects started off horrible. they must be from the pheraplex or the fact that i wasnt spreading out my support supplements when i took phera and epistane dosages.
-side effects went away towards the middle of my cycle i think and i really spreadout any support supplements away from dosages of phera and or epistane.
-just started my rehab or PCT which will last about 4 weeks unless i spread it out to 6 but that might not be recommened we shall see i will ask you guys what you think. that would requre lowering the dosages and just extending it a week or two
-hope this summary was decent. not sure what else to mention. o yea
-acne. nothing really changed for the most part. my back has actually cleared up alittle. while my chest maybe got alittle worse. nothing out of the norm.
-headaches happened on and off mostly only during certain workouts they were pretty painfull but never lasted long and dont recall having them away from my workouts
-libido talk actually confuses me because i dont know much about it or how to explain it properly and im sure ill be made fun of on one of these forums for this following post.
-im pretty sure my pecker has gotten smaller. or at least while not hard it is smaller. my balls i think got alittle smaller too. i want to say that i was really horny all cycle but im always really horny anyway.
-and actually having a hard time staying hard sometimes during umm whackoff
-well this is as honest as i can make this log. i look foward to PCT. and look foward to any advice anyone wants to share
nycste
Well-known member
08/16 TODAY
Day 2 post cycle therapy
WORKOUT
-small summary before posted workout
-had a horrible workout 2 days ago. first day back in gym after taking 4 days off to spend time with a best friend who fractured his hip. it was great rehab for me and him and was great being away from home and with a great friend
-my diet wasnt as good which can be expected. normal people dont eat 5-6 meals a day esp at our quanties so when i did my workout i was pissed and only did half of it before i was kicked out cuz it was some loser ladies night thing
here is my workout which was GREATTT
BENCHPRESS 3-0-2-1 TUT 75s rest
225x6
225x6
225x6
-can we say hells YEAAA> TUTS and 225 is BACK BABY!!
-225x6 tut means at least 10 normal reps i think woooot
DB Shoulder Press 3-0-2-1 TUT, 75s rest
55x10
55x10
55x5+1 was dead
-great +5lbs and did almost full reps NICE.. esp after that bench pressing
Lying overhead skull db things 3-0-2-1 TUT, 75s rest
30x10
30x10
30x7+3 had to try twice
-these reps half were ezbar style grip, other half HAMMER
-finished 2 days ago workout
CG underhand pulldowns 4-1-2-1 TUT, 90s rest
200x6
200x5.5
200x4 +2 spotter
DIPS TUT slowwww
bwx 5-10 reps and a few sets.. no dip belt
Day 2 post cycle therapy
WORKOUT
-small summary before posted workout
-had a horrible workout 2 days ago. first day back in gym after taking 4 days off to spend time with a best friend who fractured his hip. it was great rehab for me and him and was great being away from home and with a great friend
-my diet wasnt as good which can be expected. normal people dont eat 5-6 meals a day esp at our quanties so when i did my workout i was pissed and only did half of it before i was kicked out cuz it was some loser ladies night thing
here is my workout which was GREATTT
BENCHPRESS 3-0-2-1 TUT 75s rest
225x6
225x6
225x6
-can we say hells YEAAA> TUTS and 225 is BACK BABY!!
-225x6 tut means at least 10 normal reps i think woooot
DB Shoulder Press 3-0-2-1 TUT, 75s rest
55x10
55x10
55x5+1 was dead
-great +5lbs and did almost full reps NICE.. esp after that bench pressing
Lying overhead skull db things 3-0-2-1 TUT, 75s rest
30x10
30x10
30x7+3 had to try twice
-these reps half were ezbar style grip, other half HAMMER
-finished 2 days ago workout
CG underhand pulldowns 4-1-2-1 TUT, 90s rest
200x6
200x5.5
200x4 +2 spotter
DIPS TUT slowwww
bwx 5-10 reps and a few sets.. no dip belt