Last AM post EVER! Final thoughts...

strategicmove

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I think you should always draw some suspicion when a product forms a "special deal" with someone like GNC. USPlabs got a large ad for the product on the front page of GNC.com and while I have not been to a GNC store, very likely there is some large ad or two for this product as well.

Noting specifically the ad on GNC.com you can see that the slideshow shares the space with brands Gatorade(big name), GNC-store-label products, and some GNC-related sale. And considering that GNC is a lot "bigger" and "more known" than say, VitaminShoppe, this does not look like it was a cheap deal at all.

Maybe I am just being a bit picky, but in my opinion, it almost as though USPlabs is a bit worried about the success of this product. I mean, why else would they shell out so much money for an ad campaign for one product? While at the same time you have other products succeeding both in sales and reviews while, as it seems, sticking to word of mouth and no fancy ad campaigns.

$69 + large ad campaign...Just something you see companies like BSN, MuscleTech and the like do...So I think it is unsurprising that people are being left unconvinced.

I am not saying advertising is bad. But I think there is a certain amount of confidence you have to have in your product for it too succeed, where you do not have to go with a big name like GNC just to help sell your product.
You would be surprised, if you knew how much USPLabs spends on traditional advertising. Close to nothing as a percentage of sales! Consequently, your comment is purely speculative and apparently based on false premises. Word-of-mouth advertising drives a significantly bigger share of our business.
Regarding Pink Magic, it will be hard to keep the product on the shelves, based purely on word-of-mouth advertising by our loyal and satisfied customers.
 
strategicmove

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Before reading your entire post, I had a hunch you were referring to USP Labs; their entire campaign since their inception has been nothing by a teenager bating propoganda mission relentlessly devoted to pulling unassuming pipe-dreamers into the Pitfall that is excessive supplement use. Which is expected, as they are a corporate entity, and this is America - based upon Capitalism; but underhanded baseless claims and promises are uncalled for.

I will never be able to wrap my head around Jacob's abject lack of attention to detail (paying thousands upon thousands of dollars for multi-page spreads in every major fitness publication without proof reading, and containing enough underlined/highlighted/bolded words to induce an epileptic seizure), and his seemingly inexhaustible ability to produce and reproduce 'cutting edge' SKUs that will shock the world and add incalculable pounds of muscle to gym goers across the vast universe - all while having a Playboy model hanging on their arm (when the truth is, each inner circle release will only slap on a zero or two to the end of his bank account)!

I wish you all the best, and respect your migration to the nutrition-based sub forums... where the progress is truly made!
Is this a serious post?
 
PublicEnemy

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Allow me to clarify something, by altering the context of your statement, and proposing a question. Have you considered - you have not, but hypothetically speaking - that it was GNC who contacted us in this instance, as opposed to the other way around? If you did consider as much, you also would have considered the fact that USPlabs has quickly become one of the best-selling brands in retail and, as a consequence of the success of Oxy Elite Pro and JACK3D, our retail partners are recognizing the marketability, presence and visibility of our brand. Ergo, they promote us to their own benefit. Such is capitalism.
Respectfully, I have a few comments I would like to add. I worked at a GNC for several years and was even offered a management position at one time, I am familiar with both its corporate environment and its inner workings.

That being said, I do think that noot's post to which you were responding has some merit- just from what I know about GNC as a company. The overwhelming popularity of Muscletech/BSN products at GNC is not so much due to their debatable effectiveness in bodybuilding, but because of their sales associates.

Their sales associates' push Muscletech especially hard because of the promotional monies (PMs) they receive for each Muscletech product they sell. Now I have always had wonderful experiences with USP products. I am a diehard fan of your bulk powders, but I do agree with noot that their could be a substantial amount of advertising going into GNC. I don't want to come across as casting judgments or discriminations, if anything I admire smart business maneuvering. I am entirely neutral in my opinion about the matter.

But I do know that their sales associates are less likely to push a product if there are lower or nonexistant PMs; ergo the success of a product at GNC is reasonably determined by the amount of commissions that will be made. I am not saying that is the case for USP, I do not work there anymore so I do not know. When I did work there it was definitely the case for Hydroxycut Hardcore. If USP came about to such notoriety by merely word-of-mouth that is kick ass, high promotional monies could also explain it. But as I said, I do not work for either company, I do not know. But from a consumer's standpoint, I can identify from where noot is coming from.

Just some food for thought.
 
RepThat21

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Respectfully, I have a few comments I would like to add. I worked at a GNC for several years and was even offered a management position at one time, I am familiar with both its corporate environment and its inner workings.

That being said, I do think that noot's post to which you were responding has some merit- just from what I know about GNC as a company. The overwhelming popularity of Muscletech/BSN products at GNC is not so much due to their debatable effectiveness in bodybuilding, but because of their sales associates.

Their sales associates' push Muscletech especially hard because of the promotional monies (PMs) they receive for each Muscletech product they sell. Now I have always had wonderful experiences with USP products. I am a diehard fan of your bulk powders, but I do agree with noot that their could be a substantial amount of advertising going into GNC. I don't want to come across as casting judgments or discriminations, if anything I admire smart business maneuvering. I am entirely neutral in my opinion about the matter.

But I do know that their sales associates are less likely to push a product if there are lower or nonexistant PMs; ergo the success of a product at GNC is reasonably determined by the amount of commissions that will be made. I am not saying that is the case for USP, I do not work there anymore so I do not know. When I did work there it was definitely the case for Hydroxycut Hardcore. If USP came about to such notoriety by merely word-of-mouth that is kick ass, high promotional monies could also explain it. But as I said, I do not work for either company, I do not know. But from a consumer's standpoint, I can identify from where noot is coming from.

Just some food for thought.
i make 5.00 for every 90 capsule bottle of OEP i sell and 8 for every 180 cap bottle,prime gives me 5.50,AP and Powerfull are around 3 and jack3d gets me 1.85.Pink magic is now 6.50.hydroxycut is still 4.50 as is xenadrine
 

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i make 5.00 for every 90 capsule bottle of OEP i sell and 8 for every 180 cap bottle,prime gives me 5.50,AP and Powerfull are around 3 and jack3d gets me 1.85.Pink magic is now 6.50.hydroxycut is still 4.50 as is xenadrine
GNC employees are the used car salesmen of the supplement industry...
 
RepThat21

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GNC employees are the used car salesmen of the supplement industry...
yes sir we are...i hate it,but have to pay some bills one way or another.

*currently we are sposed to sell a 24.00 probiotic chew,14 a week, to people as we finish ringing up their purchase...oh hey sir, you are spending 12.98 on some milk thistle would you like to spend twice that on a way underdosed probiotic chew?...not fun and if i dont sell them i am fired.
 

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yes sir we are...i hate it,but have to pay some bills one way or another.

*currently we are sposed to sell a 24.00 probiotic chew,14 a week, to people as we finish ringing up their purchase...oh hey sir, you are spending 12.98 on some milk thistle would you like to spend twice that on a way underdosed probiotic chew?...not fun and if i dont sell them i am fired.
I'd look for work with a company who isn't going bankrupt and doesn't pressure it's employees to hustle customers into purchasing bogus products. :thumbsdown:
You would be surprised, if you knew how much USPLabs spends on traditional advertising.
how much does USP spend on advertising? how much do they spend on R&D?
 
RepThat21

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I'd look for work with a company who isn't going bankrupt and doesn't pressure it's employees to hustle customers into purchasing bogus products. :thumbsdown:

how much does USP spend on advertising? how much do they spend on R&D?
if you have a job for me in north county san diego please let me kno...in regards to usp paying for GNC to advertise for them i assure you GNC does all the hyping.except for the once a year visits from usp reps who hand out free products to all managers and us asst. managers to help them move product
 
RepThat21

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either way any supp dealers are in it to make money...even nutra carries cytosport,bsn,and muscle tech
 
PublicEnemy

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yes sir we are...i hate it,but have to pay some bills one way or another.

*currently we are sposed to sell a 24.00 probiotic chew,14 a week, to people as we finish ringing up their purchase...oh hey sir, you are spending 12.98 on some milk thistle would you like to spend twice that on a way underdosed probiotic chew?...not fun and if i dont sell them i am fired.
Mhmmm that brings back some memories... Just another reason I hated working and still hate that company.
if you have a job for me in north county san diego please let me kno...in regards to usp paying for GNC to advertise for them i assure you GNC does all the hyping.except for the once a year visits from usp reps who hand out free products to all managers and us asst. managers to help them move product
Seeing as you're still in the company I have a question for you... would PMs constitute direct advertising? Or am I under the false impression that they are still paid out by the brand name?
 
Distilled Water

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This thread is ridiculous, supplements work. They're just not miracles, vien people need somthing to blame for them not looking like they want to. It's along the same lines and people saying "Some people just dont have the right body-type to get shredded" Bull Sh!t, more like some people are just too lazy to. It's possible for everyone to ger shredded unless you have some serious medical issue.

Some are lazy and lean on supp's to try and do that 4 them. They're just too lazy to dial in their diet, where they will see the most. I'm running a log right no with pretty much no supp's to try and show people the power of the diet. Then for the final 4 weeks of my cut I am going to add them in to show how much greater my results are when you have everything dialed in then toss in supp's.
 
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Hey man, I know how you feel. When I was starting one of the personal trainers at my gym suckered me into dropping 1500 on a year's worth supply of essentially soy protein +maltodextrin & a "energy" multivitamin.

But I'd like to think that it was a learning experience!
 
strategicmove

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how much does USP spend on advertising? how much do they spend on R&D?
USPLabs is not a publicly-traded company, so we are not compelled to divulge this information. Like I indicated earlier, our advertising expenses constitute an insignificant amount expressed as a fraction of our net sales. In terms of R&D expenditure, USPLabs, with an innovative thrust and a significant comparative competitive advantage in herbal sourcing and extraction technology, is at the forefront of research and development in this area. In particular, we directly engage in harvesting and extraction of the herbal compounds used in our products. This process may take a few years, as several compounds are tested under different types of extraction processes and standardization of the pharmacologically-active constituents. I cannot talk for other companies, but I am not aware of many that subject the potential compounds they may ultimately use in their products to a comparable amount of stringent and exacting harvesting, testing, and extraction standards. Not to mention the resources USPLabs invests in beta-testing potential releases, some of which do not end up in the market.
 
Whacked

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NAIL ON HEAD

it is all well and good to rip on this guy but with the whole "you expect too much from a SUPPLEMENT" but don't be a hypocrite then when it comes to the advertising! Don't claim "explosive gains in strength" and similar hyperbole! why don't you state,

"This product MAY contribute in a small way to minor performance gains only in conjunction with a dialed in diet and exercise program, multiple bottles will need to be used to notice anything as the product is underdosed and will need at least a doubling of the dose to see even minimal gains beyond what diet and exercise will afford you"

instead most companies/reps play this bs game of massive marketing hype with overt claims of gains derived from the product with clever marketing and doublespeak, and then call someone out when your B*^&sh%t claims and marketing leave them feeling like a spurned prom date!
 
wontstop985

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USPLabs is not a publicly-traded company, so we are not compelled to divulge this information. Like I indicated earlier, our advertising expenses constitute an insignificant amount expressed as a fraction of our net sales. In terms of R&D expenditure, USPLabs, with an innovative thrust and a significant comparative competitive advantage in herbal sourcing and extraction technology, is at the forefront of research and development in this area. In particular, we directly engage in harvesting and extraction of the herbal compounds used in our products. This process may take a few years, as several compounds are tested under different types of extraction processes and standardization of the pharmacologically-active constituents. I cannot talk for other companies, but I am not aware of many that subject the potential compounds they may ultimately use in their products to a comparable amount of stringent and exacting harvesting, testing, and extraction standards. Not to mention the resources USPLabs invests in beta-testing potential releases, some of which do not end up in the market.

Lol.
 

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Well written, though admittedly more entirely off base than you feel USPlabs' claims to be! Kudos for being able to respectfully express your disagreement with something.
Thank you very much - I appreciate that. I rarely engage in any type of unsolicited negativity, and certainly never attempt to propagate my own opinion as irrefutable fact - or mindlessly bash and berate a topic or subject without just cause. Much like the OP, of course I am not so naive to blame the collective ills of the industry on one company or another, but I feel as though USP Labs is shameless is their pursuit and tactics of an improved quarterly earnings statement at any cost.

I would like to expand on my earlier statement though: They are merely an active entity involved in Capitalism; and it is ultimately up to the consumer to make informed and prudent choices when it comes to the allocation of their limited financial resources. So I am not blindly blaming USP Labs for wagging the tail of every starry eyed aspiring teenager trying to fill out their sleeves - it is a shared situation where both parties involved self-perpetuate one another into hyperbole oblivion.
 

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I wish I had your way with words. I have never seen expressed better the ridiculous claims made by not just by USP but nearly all supp companies. I've seen mentioned in multiple threads how USP have number one sellers and top ten sellers all over the place, and yet strangely it just cant afford to get multiple tests/bloods done......please
seems especially strange when that would shut up all the haters! If you were truly sure they did all they claimed wouldn't you want to prove it after all?? The jump in sales following solid evidence would prob offset the costs anyway.
Right on. Much like Dr. Carlon Colker and his dubious Myo T12, although true clinicals can quickly exceed $100,000 when outsourced to a university - if he had truly found a meaningful method of extraction to isolate myostatin inhibiting compounds that equated to a measurable statistically significant change in body composition and/or aversion of sarcopenia (and similar muscle wasting conditions) clinical trials would be foremost in his quest to bless the heap of humanity with his miracle-yolk.

But once again, playing devil's advocate and trying to peer into the mindset of the industry leaders by means of rationalization - why would USP Labs or any other company devote a six figure amount of capital toward solidifying their many claims, if consumers are throwing their Benjamins at them without any tangible relevant science? For example, as improbably as it sounds, there has not been a SINGLE sport specific study conducted since the inception of a hydrolysate protein fraction that demonstrates its superiority to Whey Isolate - but a firm grasp and understanding of a few facets of molecular chemistry and nutraceutical development leads us to theorize Whey Hydrolysate is superior with regards to maceration rapidity and amino acid density.

In conclusion - although it would be an eternal sigh of relief and profit potentiating prospect for all pioneering companies to conduct double-blind peer reviewed clinical trials... current FDA laws are so lax, the CEOs understand they are not beholden to prove their statements to the consumer, yet the supplement industry continues to chug along at a pace of OVER $22.7 billion USD (according to now outdated 2006 market research conducted by the counsel for responsible nutrition).
 
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Respectfully, I have a few comments I would like to add. I worked at a GNC for several years and was even offered a management position at one time, I am familiar with both its corporate environment and its inner workings.

That being said, I do think that noot's post to which you were responding has some merit- just from what I know about GNC as a company. The overwhelming popularity of Muscletech/BSN products at GNC is not so much due to their debatable effectiveness in bodybuilding, but because of their sales associates.

Their sales associates' push Muscletech especially hard because of the promotional monies (PMs) they receive for each Muscletech product they sell. Now I have always had wonderful experiences with USP products. I am a diehard fan of your bulk powders, but I do agree with noot that their could be a substantial amount of advertising going into GNC. I don't want to come across as casting judgments or discriminations, if anything I admire smart business maneuvering. I am entirely neutral in my opinion about the matter.

But I do know that their sales associates are less likely to push a product if there are lower or nonexistant PMs; ergo the success of a product at GNC is reasonably determined by the amount of commissions that will be made. I am not saying that is the case for USP, I do not work there anymore so I do not know. When I did work there it was definitely the case for Hydroxycut Hardcore. If USP came about to such notoriety by merely word-of-mouth that is kick ass, high promotional monies could also explain it. But as I said, I do not work for either company, I do not know. But from a consumer's standpoint, I can identify from where noot is coming from.

Just some food for thought.
PMs and advertising capital are entirely different, as are the points we are making - and I say that with the utmost respect. And this is particularly true given the fact that, as far as I know, PMs are not made or lost on www.gnc.com.

The reality is this: the feature advertisement which appears prominently on www.gnc.com is in accordance with corporate GNC's perception of which products ought to be promoted on a sales basis, and not based on whom contributes the largest amount of sales revenue. One need look no further than the advertisement itself to see my point, given that no other company aside from GNC's house brand is currently featured - so, if that particular advertisement is specific to contributions to ad revenue, GNC must be quite poor at the moment.
 

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This thread is ridiculous, supplements work. They're just not miracles, vien people need somthing to blame for them not looking like they want to. It's along the same lines and people saying "Some people just dont have the right body-type to get shredded" Bull Sh!t, more like some people are just too lazy to. It's possible for everyone to ger shredded unless you have some serious medical issue.

Some are lazy and lean on supp's to try and do that 4 them. They're just too lazy to dial in their diet, where they will see the most. I'm running a log right no with pretty much no supp's to try and show people the power of the diet. Then for the final 4 weeks of my cut I am going to add them in to show how much greater my results are when you have everything dialed in then toss in supp's.
With all due respect, I will make two quick points:

1. USP Labs compared a recent product to Dianabol in an ad-campaign, which as over zealous as that sounds, might actually be relegated to a watered-down reasonable conclusion in light of the mutating and devolving omnipresent use of exaggeration today. EDIT: A respected insider with knowledge of some inner workings at USP Labs messaged me and informed me that the Dianabol comparison to Cissus/Prime was not specific to anabolism, rather was meant to highlight Cissus' ability to heal/prevent injury "...with respect to cortisol-induced bone fracturing - and the stimulative effects to osteoblasts therein." On the other statement "Prime is stronger than D-Bol!" it was disclosed to me that this advertisement was funded and published by a media outlet without prior warning or approval/awareness of USP Labs.

2. I have competed in quite a lengthy near decade-spanning assortment of shows in nearly all sanctioned tested and non-tested events - and I can confidently report after trying virtually every last supplement offering placed on shelves during the past ten years, nothing OTC has imparted the effects claimed in an advertisement/web page, or that couldn't have been achieved with another steak and sweet potato + another session on the treadmill.
 
PublicEnemy

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PMs and advertising capital are entirely different, as are the points we are making - and I say that with the utmost respect. And this is particularly true given the fact that, as far as I know, PMs are not made or lost on www.gnc.com.
Thanks for clearing up that misconception of mine, I was grouping PMs along under the same umbrella as advertising expenditures. And that is correct, there are no PMs generated from online sales for employees.
 
wontstop985

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Haha, the USP rep negged me.

What a great guy to represent a great company!
 
strategicmove

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Thank you very much - I appreciate that. I rarely engage in any type of unsolicited negativity, and certainly never attempt to propagate my own opinion as irrefutable fact - or mindlessly bash and berate a topic or subject without just cause. Much like the OP, of course I am not so naive to blame the collective ills of the industry on one company or another, but I feel as though USP Labs is shameless is their pursuit and tactics of an improved quarterly earnings statement at any cost.

I would like to expand on my earlier statement though: They are merely an active entity involved in Capitalism; and it is ultimately up to the consumer to make informed and prudent choices when it comes to the allocation of their limited financial resources. So I am not blindly blaming USP Labs for wagging the tail of every starry eyed aspiring teenager trying to fill out their sleeves - it is a shared situation where both parties involved self-perpetuate one another into hyperbole oblivion.
I am not sure what the "improved quarterly earnings statement" is intended to suggest. First of all, USPLabs is not a publicly-quoted company, so we do not focus attention on improving short-term financials to impress financial analysts and shareholders. Second, anyone that has carefully followed the evolution of our product portfolio would realize that it is built on science-driven innovation powered by an unwavering quest to meet customer needs long-term. So, we are not after short-term profit maximization. Besides, our loyal customers include a significant amount of seasoned natural bodybuilders and athletes with an extensive experience in workout, diet, and supplementation.
 

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The consumer is creating the Pink Magic threads not USPlabs.

How about I send you a bottle of Pink Magic on the casa?
i'm leaving AM forever, too, i can has btl pink magic?

:p
 
strategicmove

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But once again, playing devil's advocate and trying to peer into the mindset of the industry leaders by means of rationalization - why would USP Labs or any other company devote a six figure amount of capital toward solidifying their many claims, if consumers are throwing their Benjamins at them without any tangible relevant science?....
Since you mentioned USPLabs within a broad commentary that cast it and other supplement companies in one mold of entities whose products are supposedly devoid of "tangible relevant science", I would like to ask, if in your opinion, P-Slin, Anabolic Pump, Pink Magic, PowerFULL, and so on, lack "tangible relevant science", in your definition?
 
strategicmove

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Haha, the USP rep negged me.

Yes! I insisted, and still insist, that you focus on substance.

What a great guy to represent a great company!
I rep for USPLabs with a deep passion. Every day. And I am proud of it! If you do not like my style, fair enough.
 

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You are very right and also very wrong at the same time. I've been around this stuff longer than most of you.( hey I took dibencozide,anybody that old?) I agree there is a ton of BS out there. One I detest is, "45" servings.....then you read further and see that 3 servings are needed. Or the recent product that sells for nearly $5.00 per serving. Folks, there ain't nothing out there that is worth $ 5.00 per workout. If there is anything out there that would cause your muscles to grow at an extrordinary rate, I think the FDA would be all over it. And if that product was out there, we would all be taking it. Word would get around, just like creatine. So other than prohormones, (which are steriods, don't kid yourself) I have not seen anything earth shattering for a very long time. Big pharmas spend millions on muscle wasting drug research, so I doubt Big Bob and Bigger Bob in their lab coats are going to find the Holy Grail. Lets put it this way...They haven't yet. However, here's where you are wrong. Specifically weight loss and preworkout supps. There have been a few winners in the weight loss category. Oxy Elite Pro comes to mind, among others. Ephedrine products worked fantastic before they were banned. Ephedrine, aspirin and caffeine together would rival the average weight loss prescription drug. Ephedrine was taken off the market because it was cutting into Big Pharma profits (my own opinion). This has turned out sorta long but I will write later on Pre workouts... Many do serve their purpose.
 
matthew76

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I have never known Strat to neg anyone in the 3-4 years of knowing him... never! :eek:
Yes! I insisted, and still insist, that you focus on substance.


I rep for USPLabs with a deep passion. Every day. And I am proud of it! If you do not like my style, fair enough.
 
A_I_Sports_Nutrition

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The bottom line is diet and training need to be on point for these supps to help. Without it you will get no benefits. The other problem I see alot are people expect steriod like gains from a product like this or our products and that is just not going to happen. People tend to get down on them if they do not pack on 15 lbs of mass and have a huge increase in strength with 1 bottle. Anabolic can do this faster but these products by USP labs are much safer.
 

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The bottom line is diet and training need to be on point for these supps to help. Without it you will get no benefits. The other problem I see alot are people expect steriod like gains from a product like this or our products and that is just not going to happen. People tend to get down on them if they do not pack on 15 lbs of mass and have a huge increase in strength with 1 bottle. Anabolic can do this faster but these products by USP labs are much safer.
I agree whole heartedly with the first half of your statement. Would you agree however, regarding the second half, that some (read: most) of the end-user's aggrandized expectation is constructed and inflated in direct relation to the advertisements they incessantly read?

I cannot make a blanket statement regarding the proven long standing safety record where AAS are concerned (when used under supervision for a litany of conditions and diseases) for ALL compounds - but I can say with some authority and certainty that a learned seasoned athlete can implement several mild prescription steroidal constituents into their regimen with great success both in anabolism and health maintenance.
 
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The bottom line is diet and training need to be on point for these supps to help. Without it you will get no benefits. The other problem I see alot are people expect steriod like gains from a product like this or our products and that is just not going to happen. People tend to get down on them if they do not pack on 15 lbs of mass and have a huge increase in strength with 1 bottle. Anabolic can do this faster but these products by USP labs are much safer.
Yes the experienced user by and large has more to benefit from herbal supplementation. It is because herbs are not as strong as synthetics that you need to pay closer attention to diet and training in order for these to display more positive effects. There are things herbals simply do not do for you. For instance there are quite a few herbs that will do a lot in terms of strength gain but won't compare to sythetics when it comes to mass increase. However if you were to maintain such increases over time the mass will eventually come.

So, what you do is run stacks back to back of different supplements. We know that drugs will do this faster, but herbs do it safer. If you're patient and willing to learn these herbal products will get you where you want to go eventually. That is unless you want unnaturaly large size.

People on these boards spend too much time worrying about what everybody else is doing. If you like a supp you should be free to express that without being attacked. If you don't like it then you are free to express that as well. Make sure you have tried it first though.

Concerning Pink magic, I was a beta tester and will be a long time user based on what I experienced in that testing.. that should pretty much sum it up. If it wasn't good I wouldn't buy it.

If you don't like it, don't buy it, if you don't believe in it don't buy it, and for God sakes just because it doesn't work for you does not mean it doesn't for anyone else!!

We at AI make damn fine products and we care what our customers think and I know that USPLabs feel the same way about their products.
 
chocolatemilk

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I think the OP got what he wanted: to start some sort of tirade between Anobolicminds memebers and USP Labs.

I think his "I'm not going to post anymore," is a futile attempt to shield himself from us questioning his diet, training, and lifestyle choices.

OP is 160 pounds. Anyone who knows enough about diet and training can make it to 175-180 naturally and pretty easily if they had a good understanding of diet and training. It's clear OP doesn't (if he is trying to gain muscle mass) which he clearly is in his use of this many supplements.

Go get on your other account already OP and start posting again.
 
Dizmal

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Mulletsoldier said it, emiliozapata said it, so I am going to repeat it in case the OP can not grasp the concept...

Supplements are SUPPLEMENTAL to a GOOD and WELL-PLANNED routine and diet--- period! There is no "magic pill" (powder, liquid, etc) for ANYTHING. There is no substitute for doing research on what best fits YOU and YOUR GOALS, and then following through. It is time-consuming and intense, but your body is like a sports car, after you own it for a while, tune it, add aftermarket mods, and whatnot, you get a feel for what works and what doesn't, and adjust things (your lifestyle) accordingly.


OK, why don't you ask Mullet and USPlabs why this isn't clearly printed on every package of supplement they sell?

So, Prime should be labeled - Prime The ULTIMATE muscle pill. Promotes Thick, Dense Muscle. Supraphyisical Strentgh Developement. Unparalleled Natural Mass-Building Anabolic(sound like that's borrowed from MT) *Only the ULTIMATE at promoting Thick, Dense Muscle. Supraphyisical Strentgh Developement. Unparalleled Natural Mass-Building Anabolicwhen you are eating, training and sleeping at the specific ratios needed for your specific results.


Why aren't ALL the manufacturers doing this up front? Instead of falling back on it when a certain user doesn't see results or is a "non responder". Some supplements work, the majority of them are bull****. Regardless of training, diet and rest.
 

hoopem6

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I think the OP got what he wanted: to start some sort of tirade between Anobolicminds memebers and USP Labs.

I think his "I'm not going to post anymore," is a futile attempt to shield himself from us questioning his diet, training, and lifestyle choices.

OP is 160 pounds. Anyone who knows enough about diet and training can make it to 175-180 naturally and pretty easily if they had a good understanding of diet and training. It's clear OP doesn't (if he is trying to gain muscle mass) which he clearly is in his use of this many supplements.

Go get on your other account already OP and start posting again.
END THREAD HERE.
 
Mulletsoldier

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OK, why don't you ask Mullet and USPlabs why this isn't clearly printed on every package of supplement they sell?

So, Prime should be labeled - Prime The ULTIMATE muscle pill. Promotes Thick, Dense Muscle. Supraphyisical Strentgh Developement. Unparalleled Natural Mass-Building Anabolic(sound like that's borrowed from MT) *Only the ULTIMATE at promoting Thick, Dense Muscle. Supraphyisical Strentgh Developement. Unparalleled Natural Mass-Building Anabolicwhen you are eating, training and sleeping at the specific ratios needed for your specific results.


Why aren't ALL the manufacturers doing this up front? Instead of falling back on it when a certain user doesn't see results or is a "non responder". Some supplements work, the majority of them are bull****. Regardless of training, diet and rest.
Well, the most obvious issue here is practical, and one that you foresaw prior to making the post: space. The amount of clutter placing all that information on the label would create is simply unnecessary.

We do, however, include educational pamphlets with our products which go above and beyond most companies in this respect.

I feel that including detailed diet plans, workout regimens and recommendations on timing and sleep with our products is certainly a sufficient indicator that we take the very approach you are espousing - and do not merely "fall back on it" when success is not reached.
 
AK32408

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So who's getting that free bottle of Pink Magic ??

:ntome:
 

Irish Cannon

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The bottom line is diet and training need to be on point for these supps to help. Without it you will get no benefits. The other problem I see alot are people expect steriod like gains from a product like this or our products and that is just not going to happen. People tend to get down on them if they do not pack on 15 lbs of mass and have a huge increase in strength with 1 bottle. Anabolic can do this faster but these products by USP labs are much safer.
Precisely.

People will b*tch and whine about any supplement. The phrases "didn't do anything" or "didn't make any gains" are a red flag.

If someone makes absolutely no gains during a 4-6wk run of a product, THEY are the failure, not the product. Even if the supplement was void of anything but sawdust, they still should have made progress on their own. It just shows you who is working hard and who isn't.

I know my body well enough to know when a supplement is making a difference. For example:

My bench pretty much sucks. It has always sucked. I've never been a good bencher. Recently I've adjusted my training on bench to be more specific to a PL routine. I've added great strength in the last two months. About 3wks ago I added in Methyl 1-D and have since increased my progression by about 30% above the normal range each week.

I'm making progress with or without Methyl 1-D, but it's definitely helping me make "extra" progress.
 
HereToStudy

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END THREAD HERE.
This is so true.

The rest of this thread makes me want to :puke:

Don't blame companies for your lack of dediction. I am sure you ate like ****, hit the gym like a weekend warrior, with a 3 day split Bi/Chest/Bi.

Think about it this way. If the products did nothing, then they would have no effect on your natural growth. So if in that time you ate right and worked out hard, you would be higher then 160lbs anyway. The fact that you sit at 160, shows that you didn't put in any effort and expected a pill to lift iron for you, it doesn't work like that.

I use supplements. The supplements work for me. But I can drop them at any time and still expect results. Why? Because I work out like I am taking nothing, and I eat like every calorie matters. With that in place I allow my body to utilize the benefits these supplements provide.

Furthermore, the campaign against Pink Magic is getting out of hand. The very same people that are like "OMGZZ JACK3D iz da shiznit, I am s0 pumped!!!!111" are like "yea **** USP, they pimp products." If you don't want the product (or more likely can't afford it) don't take it. Cigarettes/Alcohol/Gambling/Pharma-Companies are among the most in your face marketers of the world. Are you sitting around hyped up on Adderal, smoking a lucky strike, drinking a colt 45 and losing every dollar to a casino? I don't think so. The OP had no self control over his spending, and given his reliance upon a miracle pill he ended up losing money and gaining nothing. End of story.

As a member who takes the dieting and exercise serious, I will continue to see results, if I am taking supplements or not, but as someone who knows how to use them to SUPPLEMENT my LIFESTYLE, I will continue to be happy with them.

Thank you USP for Pink Magic.
 
Dizmal

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The bottom line is diet and training need to be on point for these supps to help. Without it you will get no benefits. The other problem I see alot are people expect steriod like gains from a product like this or our products and that is just not going to happen. People tend to get down on them if they do not pack on 15 lbs of mass and have a huge increase in strength with 1 bottle. Anabolic can do this faster but these products by USP labs are much safer.


The problem I see is companies claiming this knowing it will never happen in the first place;

In our own pilot study, a group of 12 exercising men were found to experience the following, on average, over a 30-day period while using USPLabs Prime:

4.29 lbs increase in body weight
6.37 lbs increase in lean body mass
2.08 lbs decrease in fat mass
40.83 lbs increase in bench press strength (3 RM)
54.58 lbs increase in squat strength (3 RM)


If this isn't going to be accomplished by EVERYONE. Then you shouldn't be making the claim in the first place. That doesn't just go out to USP, that's everyone.
 
triton185

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Summarizing all this BS:

Facts:

Diet and Training are 99%

DS/PH are not supplements.

Creatine and Protein help and it is well documented. All other supplements might give you the other 1%.

All supplements are expensive as hell and the companies spend most their money on advertising. Any of you companies/reps disagree then post your financials. I'm a CPA, I can read 'em.

You will get flamed on the supplements board if you say anthing negative about supplements or supplement companies. I learned that last week when I gave my personal opinion on test boosters based solely on my own bloodwork.

So, to the original poster..............I hear ya. Someone made a post the other day about how there were so many negative posts about supplements lately in this forum. My response was that we need them to balance all the posts that these reps/sponsored people are posting.

AND LASTLY, I HONESTLY DO NOT GIVE A F*CK WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT A PRODUCT IF YOU WORK FOR THEM OR GET ANYTHING FROM THEM. IT IS GETTING OLD. I WILL GO TO YOUR WEBSITE TO FIND OUT WHAT YOU THINK. I AM HERE TO LISTEN TO WHAT OTHER UNBIASED PEOPLE THINK.
 

JBerto

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I will never buy anything other than creatine, protein, and hormonal products.

Everything else I feel is BS. Straight up, I believe no supplements work, and even if they did, my belief in them not working would prevent them from working.

This belief saves me lots of money. Take this as a learning experience OP.

If money is a problem, the you should spend your money only in the "basics" (creatine, protein,...) + hormonals (PH, roids)

But if money is not a problem, then you could add some other supps to add a bit help (but don't expect miracles from anything non-hormonal)
 

hoopem6

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AND LASTLY, I HONESTLY DO NOT GIVE A F*CK WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT A PRODUCT IF YOU WORK FOR THEM OR GET ANYTHING FROM THEM. IT IS GETTING OLD. I WILL GO TO YOUR WEBSITE TO FIND OUT WHAT YOU THINK. I AM HERE TO LISTEN TO WHAT OTHER UNBIASED PEOPLE THINK.
So, you immediately discredit a representative's opinion solely due to the fact that they believe in the product(s) they're representing?
 
triton185

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So, you immediately discredit a representative's opinion solely due to the fact that they believe in the product(s) they're representing?
Sorry, but I am looking for unbiased.
 
zombiemuscle

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Summarizing all this BS:

Facts:

Diet and Training are 99%

DS/PH are not supplements.

Creatine and Protein help and it is well documented. All other supplements might give you the other 1%.

All supplements are expensive as hell and the companies spend most their money on advertising. Any of you companies/reps disagree then post your financials. I'm a CPA, I can read 'em.

You will get flamed on the supplements board if you say anthing negative about supplements or supplement companies. I learned that last week when I gave my personal opinion on test boosters based solely on my own bloodwork.

So, to the original poster..............I hear ya. Someone made a post the other day about how there were so many negative posts about supplements lately in this forum. My response was that we need them to balance all the posts that these reps/sponsored people are posting.

AND LASTLY, I HONESTLY DO NOT GIVE A F*CK WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT A PRODUCT IF YOU WORK FOR THEM OR GET ANYTHING FROM THEM. IT IS GETTING OLD. I WILL GO TO YOUR WEBSITE TO FIND OUT WHAT YOU THINK. I AM HERE TO LISTEN TO WHAT OTHER UNBIASED PEOPLE THINK.
You need to check up on the actual studies done on certain products you are looking to buy. For instance: If I wanted to buy Stoked I could check up on icariin and resveratrol, they both have studies proving that they work.
 
SouthernCharm

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Dude not trying to be rude but....

Hey all.

I've been with this forum for quite some time, starting as a lurker and eventually making my way into posting. Over the short period I have been around, I have seen all the big "Double-Extreme Extra-Top-Secret Formula Revolutionary blah blah blah..." stuff come out and I will admit I have fallen victim to all of it on several occasions. The bottom line is that I bought into the marketing of the companies selling such products, expecting the gains they promised, and ended up with nothing to show for it. I did, however, manage to lose several pounds in my wallet.

Nothing against USP, although I will admit that they have been the company to garner the most of my sup funds (Prime, OEP, VAT Attack, etc.) but the Pink Magic threads have been the straw to break the camels back. This industry has become run by hype, "studies", sponsors, and some killer advertising/marketing strategies. I have been suckered into most of these products and I have spent an all too large sum of money on supplements that were ultimately a let down.

To end my rant, I will still be lingering around these forums, i suppose, but this will be my last post. My apologies to USP employees if you feel I have singled out your company... I assure you that is not what I am trying to do. The industry as a whole, however, has evolved into its own animal that I will no longer support.

Thank you everyone, Its been fun. I'll seclude myself back to being a lurker 'round the bulking/dieting forums ;) Peace.

I will say this. Im part of a couple of forums other than this one. Not just weight/supplement forums but I moderate a dog forum and it's always a little amusing to see the big farewell post people post. It's like a big dramatic deal but really it's just because you have a personal problem with something. Oh well.

You don't like a supplement? Or a certain company? Don't buy it? You don't like a thread or a certain poster? Ignore it! But really, do you have to pull your pants down and say this is my last post.. It breaks my heart :silly:

I can't tell you how many products I DONT buy, how many people I DONT respond to, how many things I don't look into. Lurk, read, learn yeah that's all cool but do you have to make an announcement that it's your last post? I havent read through the whole thread I wonder if you posted after your famous last words. Honestly people....

This is not a big deal. You don't like the hype on a supplement.. Well no one is running your credit card number!!
 

hoopem6

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Sorry, but I am looking for unbiased.
In your earlier post you stated you were a CPA. What makes you a better CPA than those in your surrounding area?

If you, or an employee of yours, were approached by a total stranger and asked the aforementioned question; would your, or your employees, positive opinion regarding your services be considered biased?
 
strategicmove

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The problem I see is companies claiming this knowing it will never happen in the first place;

In our own pilot study, a group of 12 exercising men were found to experience the following, on average, over a 30-day period while using USPLabs Prime:

4.29 lbs increase in body weight
6.37 lbs increase in lean body mass
2.08 lbs decrease in fat mass
40.83 lbs increase in bench press strength (3 RM)
54.58 lbs increase in squat strength (3 RM)


If this isn't going to be accomplished by EVERYONE. Then you shouldn't be making the claim in the first place. That doesn't just go out to USP, that's everyone.
The study conclusions do not require everyone to experience the same results for the study to be valid. The study was done on a specific population sample, with clearly defined characteristics, exposed to a well-calibrated dosage scheme, and that went through a given set of workout routines. As a consequence, the study results can be reasonably expected to be replicated by individuals that share similar characteristics with the study subjects and are exposed to similar conditions. So, the study claim on its own remains intact, as long as the study was well designed, regardless of whether or not every subsequent user of the supplement "accomplished" the same results.
 

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