KLEEN – Unwraps his abs for Christmas w/ PES ERASE and ALPHA-T2 (Sponsored)

MrKleen73

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You count grams of your BCAA mix as grams of protein? I understand aminos is what make up proteins but aren't proteins made up of many different aminos. The aminos in a BCAA mix aren't in a chain like they are in food correct? So why would say 11g of Leucine = 11g of protein. I don't doubt you researched this I am just curious because I have never counted my Xtend toward my total protein or calorie intake.
Well technically it is not a complete protein, you are correct. However for simplicity sake that is the best place to list it regarding calories for me as I tallied everything up. Aminos do have caloric value, and can be burned as energy. As a matter of fact aminos have a role in creating ATP which is part of the reason they can increase endurance and stave off catabolism during fasted training. Also they increase protein synthesis during the workout. All of these things require caloric value. I would say it is probably safe to assume the value would be that of protein, so 1 gram = 4 calories. I made the plan up with base calories then added the aminos, extra half cup of oats and Postal afterwards and wanted to see how much I had increased the calories for that day...

However you bringing that up reminds me that on this diet about 50-60 grams a day of those carbs will be from fiber and probably not add too much regarding caloric value which is why they aren't normally counted but I went ahead and put them in there.
 
JudoJosh

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Well technically it is not a complete protein, you are correct. However for simplicity sake that is the best place to list it regarding calories for me as I tallied everything up. Aminos do have caloric value, and can be burned as energy. As a matter of fact aminos have a role in creating ATP which is part of the reason they can increase endurance and stave off catabolism during fasted training. Also they increase protein synthesis during the workout. All of these things require caloric value. I would say it is probably safe to assume the value would be that of protein, so 1 gram = 4 calories. I made the plan up with base calories then added the aminos, extra half cup of oats and Postal afterwards and wanted to see how much I had increased the calories for that day...

However you bringing that up reminds me that on this diet about 50-60 grams a day of those carbs will be from fiber and probably not add too much regarding caloric value which is why they aren't normally counted but I went ahead and put them in there.
Makes sense.. I had asked here before if xtend had any calorie impact and if it should get counted and I think most of the responses I got were no. I was curious about it but brushed it off. I mean an extra 30g of protein or 90 calories wont make or break a diet anyway so it prolly doesn't matter it was just I havent seen it counted in a total before and when I saw you do it I figured there was a reason and with my new found quest for knowledge I figured I would ask :D
 
MrKleen73

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No definitely always ask man. I know I do. I don't think anyone typically counts them either but once you get to a certain amount. That and they are basically already to go so they get used preferentially so the energy in them is a factor in what is being used throughout the day.
 
John Smeton

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Makes sense.. I had asked here before if xtend had any calorie impact and if it should get counted and I think most of the responses I got were no. I was curious about it but brushed it off. I mean an extra 30g of protein or 90 calories wont make or break a diet anyway so it prolly doesn't matter it was just I havent seen it counted in a total before and when I saw you do it I figured there was a reason and with my new found quest for knowledge I figured I would ask :D
30 grams protein equals 120 calories not ninety. I have seen at least one guy count his calories wrong. and yes you can count Bcaa's toward protein content. one gram bcaa= one gram protein
 
DreamWeaver

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No definitely always ask man. I know I do. I don't think anyone typically counts them either but once you get to a certain amount. That and they are basically already to go so they get used preferentially so the energy in them is a factor in what is being used throughout the day.
Yah I don't count them either and I usually use them during a cut..
 
GoHardOrGoHme

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Personally i dont count BCAA's as protein since i like keeping my dietary protein very high and i can slack off if i start adding in amino acids to the overall protein intake. The way i compensate for this calorically is that I always leave a buffer calorically that allows me to be slightly under or at maintanence when factoring in supplementation of various amino acids and what not.

Same with veggies and fruit. Since i see no down side to taking more then what i should be taking calorically during recomp i dont count them calorically only per serving. So ill make sure to get in 1-2 apples and 1-3 cupps of broccoli ideally. Yeah this will be 200-300 calories extra but considering the source it will only aid the recomp.

Cutting is another story....that is far more militant and everything is factored in.

And remember that luecine is ketogenic so it can be used directly for energy since it is not a gluconeogenic amino acid. Thats only on the energy side...i can go on and on about how much luecine rocks.
 
MrKleen73

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Good diet there Chris, I jsut hit the gym hard and am stoked right now, typing up a storm lol!

I am so excited for liquid meals too, so cheap and easy to get 1000 cals in for breakfast!
Yep, I am not a food purist but a convenience based person. Keep it reasonably simple and I am happy. I eat for nutritional content most of the time. I could easily be fine with 4 shakes a day with some oats and almonds mixed in a couple of the meals and not really even get hungry.
30 grams protein equals 120 calories not ninety. I have seen at least one guy count his calories wrong. and yes you can count Bcaa's toward protein content. one gram bcaa= one gram protein
Yeah the purists will tell you you can't count it as a whole protein source and I agree with that. However it has to fall into the protein categoy when talking calories. The only reason I counted them was to make sure I was at least 300 cals higher on the lifting day. Otherwise they would have just been added in but not counted. Also a lot of people make the mistake of thinking it needs to be a complete protein to be used to build muscle but leucine is the most anabolic of all aminos. Leucine, Isoleucine, Valine, and L-Glutamine are responsible for most of the protein synthesis in the body. My mix is half 8:1:1 BCAA's and half Glutamine so it is supercharges for protein synthesis. Yes I know only about 50% of the Glutamine get to the blood since the rest is soaked up through the intestines to the liver and does a ton of other healthy things for you including increase your immune system.

I love the info that comes out of Kleen's threads :D
Me too, I love how everyone gets in on the convo and shares knowledge and inspire thoughts in each other.
Yah I don't count them either and I usually use them during a cut..
Yeah I don't really think too many people use enough of them to make a huge difference in the diet. What they do to retain muscle is so profound that any possible slow down in fat loss is acceptable however it is also unlikely that say 120 calories will be a deciding factor in the success of a diet.

Personally i dont count BCAA's as protein since i like keeping my dietary protein very high and i can slack off if i start adding in amino acids to the overall protein intake. The way i compensate for this calorically is that I always leave a buffer calorically that allows me to be slightly under or at maintanence when factoring in supplementation of various amino acids and what not.

Same with veggies and fruit. Since i see no down side to taking more then what i should be taking calorically during recomp i dont count them calorically only per serving. So ill make sure to get in 1-2 apples and 1-3 cupps of broccoli ideally. Yeah this will be 200-300 calories extra but considering the source it will only aid the recomp.

Cutting is another story....that is far more militant and everything is factored in.

And remember that luecine is ketogenic so it can be used directly for energy since it is not a gluconeogenic amino acid. Thats only on the energy side...i can go on and on about how much luecine rocks.
Exactly, I touched base on that above. Next time I get my BCAAs it will be micronized and instantized though. I am over the leucine floaties. However why don't you go on a bit about the benefits of leucine. I am sure we would all like to hear it, I know I would.
 
MrKleen73

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Day 15 - Push Day - High Rep

Okay today was a higher rep workout the goal was to pick a weight I could start at 15 reps with but may not be able to finish the 3 sets at 15 reps. I decided that for my higher rep days I will use predominantly dumbbells to keep stabilizers strong. The heavy days do mostly barbell work. It just makes more sense this way to me. As conditioning improves I will more likely move to 4 sets instead of 3 or add a drop set to the mix. I was a little ashamed of myself by the end of the workout. I petered out on squats bad. I think lowering my carbs a good bit got me today and still carrying around some Thanksgiving grub. LOL So the high reps basically kicked my back side.

DB Flat Bench - 70x15, 70x15, 75x15, I could have gone to 80s but both of my shoulders are feeling a little twingy. I felt a little discomfort in both the first set. I don’t think it is an injury just the joints are really dry from low estrogen. I am adding in some cissus today so I should be good to go very soon.

Standing Arnold Press - 45x15, 50x15, 50x13 - No pain at all on this, once shoulders were nice and warmed up I was good to go.

Dips - BW x15 x 3 sets. I need to go up next time probably a 15 lb DB between the legs. I can’t believe it, I was breathing hard by the time I finished my dips. Only resting 45-60 seconds between all of the sets for each exercise I was starting to suck wind.

Squats - 185x15, 225x15, 225x8, By the time I finished my set of 225x15 I was huffing and puffing like a freight train going up a steep hill. I had gone way over my anaerobic threshold and was light headed to boot. I waited about a minute and a half and even though still a little light headed from breathing so fast I got back under for set # 3, by the time I hit my 6th rep I felt myself slam into the wall. I held it for about 5 seconds and did another rep, then about 15 seconds did another one and was just to light headed to continue safely so I put up the weight. I expect these numbers to climb quickly. I was doing only machines for higher reps before and these take so much more out of you. Heck all of the work today took a bit out of you compared to machines, which is what I have been limiting myself to for about 4 months now dealing with this shoulder stuff...

As far as diet goes I am right on schedule for the day. I don’t have my grapefruit or blueberries yet so I added in 1 1/4 cup of oats spread over the first 2 meals to make up for the calories.

Like I said my joints are a little dry from the ERASE that stuff really dries you out. If you have problems with your joints I recommend having some Cissus on hand. I will be taking it from now through the end of this run. My libido is still very high, and my balls are bigger now than they were when I started. Yes I always feel my balls before taking anything hormonal, or shaking someone's hand... Wait WHAT????

On another note I have made a decision to hold off on my Malicious Mass cycle instead I am going with the stack I originally planned to run. I know this one isn’t going to be a MASS MONSTER but it will help me with my joints due to the conversion to Boldenone, and in my effort to recomp. I will be running EQ-Plex for 8 weeks at 600 a day and 800 a day on workout days and H-Drol for 6 weeks going up to 100 maybe 125 if sides not too bad. I also have about 10-12 Super DMZ left and will add them pulsed on workout days the first two weeks of the run before starting H-Drol. If I play my cards right I could see another 10-12 lbs off of that stack and if I can keep half again like last time I will be good to go and probably have stronger shoulder in the end too. I may look into a DHT or DHEA supplement during this one also. I think I could go with something like Dermacrine or Androhard, or even M1D at high doses.
 
punthra

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Nice workout! Definitely interested to see what that stack does for you!
 
oufinny

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Okay today was a higher rep workout the goal was to pick a weight I could start at 15 reps with but may not be able to finish the 3 sets at 15 reps. I decided that for my higher rep days I will use predominantly dumbbells to keep stabilizers strong. The heavy days do mostly barbell work. It just makes more sense this way to me. As conditioning improves I will more likely move to 4 sets instead of 3 or add a drop set to the mix. I was a little ashamed of myself by the end of the workout. I petered out on squats bad. I think lowering my carbs a good bit got me today and still carrying around some Thanksgiving grub. LOL So the high reps basically kicked my back side.

DB Flat Bench - 70x15, 70x15, 75x15, I could have gone to 80s but both of my shoulders are feeling a little twingy. I felt a little discomfort in both the first set. I don’t think it is an injury just the joints are really dry from low estrogen. I am adding in some cissus today so I should be good to go very soon.

Standing Arnold Press - 45x15, 50x15, 50x13 - No pain at all on this, once shoulders were nice and warmed up I was good to go.

Dips - BW x15 x 3 sets. I need to go up next time probably a 15 lb DB between the legs. I can’t believe it, I was breathing hard by the time I finished my dips. Only resting 45-60 seconds between all of the sets for each exercise I was starting to suck wind.

Squats - 185x15, 225x15, 225x8, By the time I finished my set of 225x15 I was huffing and puffing like a freight train going up a steep hill. I had gone way over my anaerobic threshold and was light headed to boot. I waited about a minute and a half and even though still a little light headed from breathing so fast I got back under for set # 3, by the time I hit my 6th rep I felt myself slam into the wall. I held it for about 5 seconds and did another rep, then about 15 seconds did another one and was just to light headed to continue safely so I put up the weight. I expect these numbers to climb quickly. I was doing only machines for higher reps before and these take so much more out of you. Heck all of the work today took a bit out of you compared to machines, which is what I have been limiting myself to for about 4 months now dealing with this shoulder stuff...

As far as diet goes I am right on schedule for the day. I don’t have my grapefruit or blueberries yet so I added in 1 1/4 cup of oats spread over the first 2 meals to make up for the calories.

Like I said my joints are a little dry from the ERASE that stuff really dries you out. If you have problems with your joints I recommend having some Cissus on hand. I will be taking it from now through the end of this run. My libido is still very high, and my balls are bigger now than they were when I started. Yes I always feel my balls before taking anything hormonal, or shaking someone's hand... Wait WHAT????

On another note I have made a decision to hold off on my Malicious Mass cycle instead I am going with the stack I originally planned to run. I know this one isn’t going to be a MASS MONSTER but it will help me with my joints due to the conversion to Boldenone, and in my effort to recomp. I will be running EQ-Plex for 8 weeks at 600 a day and 800 a day on workout days and H-Drol for 6 weeks going up to 100 maybe 125 if sides not too bad. I also have about 10-12 Super DMZ left and will add them pulsed on workout days the first two weeks of the run before starting H-Drol. If I play my cards right I could see another 10-12 lbs off of that stack and if I can keep half again like last time I will be good to go and probably have stronger shoulder in the end too. I may look into a DHT or DHEA supplement during this one also. I think I could go with something like Dermacrine or Androhard, or even M1D at high doses.
I was just going to say you should run M1D since I am sure you have it on hand and it will only help. You are going to be doing something similar to me with your next cycle though I am running Helladrol and Epistrong together for some lean, dry gains. AndroHard is a great compound and if you run it at 3 mL for 6 weeks that would be sick but M1D will work as well (and if you already have it, save some money).
 
MrKleen73

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Yeah I have about 4 bottles of M1D and 6 of MMv3. That cycle you have planned is WAY stronger than what I have lined up. My stack is class 1 and class 2 prosteroids, the Eq-Plex being a 1 and the Halodrol being a 2. You will be taking Halo class 2 and Epi class 3 ProSteriods. The epi alone would probably out do this stack or run neck and neck with it. I think you will be shocked at what you get from that run. Don't think that 15 lbs is out of your reach. Wow Fin at 200-205 and pretty lean. YIKES!!!!
 
boricuarage

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5,8 212 lbs?
gottdammit you a beast!!
my goal is 200.....
that's **** ain't easy...
if only I had so much money to buy all that food!!!!
 
JudoJosh

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However why don't you go on a bit about the benefits of leucine. I am sure we would all like to hear it, I know I would.
I second this!
 
votum

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Apparently I need to crack open my bcaas :p

And dump some glutamine in there too eh?

Decided on a 5x5 for my comeback month, then going to hit up super dmz :D
 
GoHardOrGoHme

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You asked and thus ye shall receive.

- Increases protein synthesis
- Significant increase in strength when compared to placebo group
- Increases endurance when compared to placebo
- Marked decrease in protein breakdown
- Increased retention of lean mass during times of hypocaloric intake
- When administered alone it gave all the benefits as when admistered with a BCAA mix
- Leucine also appears to modulate insulin signaling and glucose use by skeletal muscle making overall more anabolic
- leucine appears to regulate oxidative use of glucose by skeletal muscle through stimulation of glucose recycling via the glucose-alanine cycle. These mechanisms produce protein sparing and provide a stable glucose environment with low insulin responses during energy-restricted periods.
- Promotes an decrease in recovery time due to above mechanisms
- Leucine has been shown to increase insulin secretion….quote “it increased the insulin area response to glucose by an additional 66%; that is, it almost doubled the response”
- Leucine being ketogenic will provide energy WITHOUT glucose being that they can be converted to ketone bodies quite readily
- Studies have shown leucine can increase metabolism in adipose tissue(helps you burn fat)
- Leucine derivatives(HMB) have been shown to increase muscle mass and strength(albeit many HMB supplements are not dosed appropriately to produce the desired results and its expensive)

The more I search on leucine the more I find. Understand the above points were taken from a number of research articles and various locations found while researching. I could not readily spit out all that info, I had to refresh my memory of all the benefits…and by no means is this every benefit of leucine. Search it and you will come up with more.
 
GoHardOrGoHme

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remind me not to shake your hand Kleen....lol
 
thundergod

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On another note I have made a decision to hold off on my Malicious Mass cycle instead I am going with the stack I originally planned to run. I know this one isn’t going to be a MASS MONSTER but it will help me with my joints due to the conversion to Boldenone, and in my effort to recomp. I will be running EQ-Plex for 8 weeks at 600 a day and 800 a day on workout days and H-Drol for 6 weeks going up to 100 maybe 125 if sides not too bad. I also have about 10-12 Super DMZ left and will add them pulsed on workout days the first two weeks of the run before starting H-Drol. If I play my cards right I could see another 10-12 lbs off of that stack and if I can keep half again like last time I will be good to go and probably have stronger shoulder in the end too. I may look into a DHT or DHEA supplement during this one also. I think I could go with something like Dermacrine or Androhard, or even M1D at high doses.
Thunder-Likey!! :hammer:

Well thought out and well planned.
As the German philospher Friedrich Nietchze once said, "A man without a plan, is not a man."
 
MrKleen73

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Thunder-Likey!! :hammer:

Well thought out and well planned.
As the German philospher Friedrich Nietchze once said, "A man without a plan, is not a man."
Why thank you Sir! I am stoked about that run but now not sure it will take place as soon as I want. I will update in the next post.

Way to kill it on those Arnold Presses!
Thanks Bro!
Only German I know is from Rammstein :D

I dig "Ohne Diche"
"Without You"

Nothing like a good power love ballad! Funny thing is I use that in the gym.

Just avoid Mann Gegen Mann if you can! :D
Shoot I love me some Rammstein...

This one gets me going in the gym every time! Now I know what the words mean.
 
MrKleen73

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Yesterdays Workout and update.

I may turn this into a full on cut. I am very frustrated with my shoulder situation; I worked out this morning and went really light on my pulls and my shoulder is still quite aggravated. I can feel it catching on the bad section of cartilage inside the joint. I am going to bite the bullet and try to schedule an MRI with my ortho. After 4-5 months of working around the injury and even taking a few weeks off recently it still hurting seems very likely that another surgery will be required. I am already assuming I will need a S.L.A.P surgery to repair the Labrum. Oh well the sooner I can get it done the sooner I can start working towards preparing for another show which is what I REALLY want to do. I find it very hard to motivate myself when I can not lift with intensity. It just makes me frustrated.

Here is my program from yesterday.

Assisted Chins - 100 off x 15, 80 off x13, 100 off x 12, the stack is "perma-pinned" at 40 lbs to counter balance the assistance lever so I think it may be 60 off and 40 off body weight but not sure. First set was no issue at all. I decided to go up 20 lbs. About the 8th rep I started feeling the shoulder but not too bad. Around the 12th rep it had intensified a bit with each rep and I was getting a little worried. I got one more rep but just didn't feel safe after that. Felt I was pushing my luck. Last set went back down and just went until it felt like an unsafe level of discomfort.

Seated Rows - I kept this very light too. 100x15, 120x15, 120x15, I didn't really feel as much discomfort doing these but I was using a very low weight due to feeling so uncomfortable on the chins. When I got done I noticed my shoulder having a slight throb inside the joint. Not too bad nothing alarming but something to take note of.

DB Curls - 25x15, 30x15, 30x14 Finally a little more intensity!!! I had a nice burn going on in my biceps when this was over. At least there was one thing I could do with out worrying about my shoulder today… I am pretty strict on my curls, elbows tucked in to side no movement of the upper arm or leaning back to get a rep so the biceps pump was pretty awesome.

Dead lifts - 185x15, 225x15, 245x15 - Awesome another lift that the shoulder didn't hamper. If I do need surgery I will continue to dead lift right up until the day of because it doesn't seem to cause any pain at all. Next time I am going to start with 245 then go to 265x15. I already know I can hit 315 for 20 on these when healthy and doing them at the end of a workout with triples so I think I should be able to squeeze out a few sets of 15 at maybe 275 with out too much issue just depends on how quick the conditioning comes in.

Okay I wrote this yesterday but I have an appointment with my ortho Monday afternoon and will schedule an MRI hopefully for the same or following day.
 
Rahl

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I may turn this into a full on cut. I am very frustrated with my shoulder situation; I worked out this morning and went really light on my pulls and my shoulder is still quite aggravated. I can feel it catching on the bad section of cartilage inside the joint. I am going to bite the bullet and try to schedule an MRI with my ortho. After 4-5 months of working around the injury and even taking a few weeks off recently it still hurting seems very likely that another surgery will be required. I am already assuming I will need a S.L.A.P surgery to repair the Labrum. Oh well the sooner I can get it done the sooner I can start working towards preparing for another show which is what I REALLY want to do. I find it very hard to motivate myself when I can not lift with intensity. It just makes me frustrated.

Here is my program from yesterday.

Assisted Chins - 100 off x 15, 80 off x13, 100 off x 12, the stack is "perma-pinned" at 40 lbs to counter balance the assistance lever so I think it may be 60 off and 40 off body weight but not sure. First set was no issue at all. I decided to go up 20 lbs. About the 8th rep I started feeling the shoulder but not too bad. Around the 12th rep it had intensified a bit with each rep and I was getting a little worried. I got one more rep but just didn't feel safe after that. Felt I was pushing my luck. Last set went back down and just went until it felt like an unsafe level of discomfort.

Seated Rows - I kept this very light too. 100x15, 120x15, 120x15, I didn't really feel as much discomfort doing these but I was using a very low weight due to feeling so uncomfortable on the chins. When I got done I noticed my shoulder having a slight throb inside the joint. Not too bad nothing alarming but something to take note of.

DB Curls - 25x15, 30x15, 30x14 Finally a little more intensity!!! I had a nice burn going on in my biceps when this was over. At least there was one thing I could do with out worrying about my shoulder today… I am pretty strict on my curls, elbows tucked in to side no movement of the upper arm or leaning back to get a rep so the biceps pump was pretty awesome.

Dead lifts - 185x15, 225x15, 245x15 - Awesome another lift that the shoulder didn't hamper. If I do need surgery I will continue to dead lift right up until the day of because it doesn't seem to cause any pain at all. Next time I am going to start with 245 then go to 265x15. I already know I can hit 315 for 20 on these when healthy and doing them at the end of a workout with triples so I think I should be able to squeeze out a few sets of 15 at maybe 275 with out too much issue just depends on how quick the conditioning comes in.

Okay I wrote this yesterday but I have an appointment with my ortho Monday afternoon and will schedule an MRI hopefully for the same or following day.
Sorry to hear your shoulder is still bothering you. Getting old is a pain in the ass ain't it? You got me fired up to go for a crazy arm pump tonight though!
 
MrKleen73

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Sorry to hear your shoulder is still bothering you. Getting old is a pain in the ass ain't it? You got me fired up to go for a crazy arm pump tonight though!
Yeah the arm pump was nice actually my back was still pumped even though I didn't go heavy. Gotta love the N2KTS!!!

My shoulder has been ongoing and the Alflutop I did a little bit ago was my last ditch effort to correct it without surgery. I feel like I am losing time here by *****footing around. Just get it fixed and get back in the game.
 
thebigt

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Well technically it is not a complete protein, you are correct. However for simplicity sake that is the best place to list it regarding calories for me as I tallied everything up. Aminos do have caloric value, and can be burned as energy. As a matter of fact aminos have a role in creating ATP which is part of the reason they can increase endurance and stave off catabolism during fasted training. Also they increase protein synthesis during the workout. All of these things require caloric value. I would say it is probably safe to assume the value would be that of protein, so 1 gram = 4 calories. I made the plan up with base calories then added the aminos, extra half cup of oats and Postal afterwards and wanted to see how much I had increased the calories for that day...

However you bringing that up reminds me that on this diet about 50-60 grams a day of those carbs will be from fiber and probably not add too much regarding caloric value which is why they aren't normally counted but I went ahead and put them in there.
i think i read where the fda doesn't allow bcaa's to be counted as protein on labels. that's why you will see 4gm bcaa's lised in ingredients while the label says 0 protein.
 
10bathroomsO

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Yeah the arm pump was nice actually my back was still pumped even though I didn't go heavy. Gotta love the N2KTS!!!

My shoulder has been ongoing and the Alflutop I did a little bit ago was my last ditch effort to correct it without surgery. I feel like I am losing time here by *****footing around. Just get it fixed and get back in the game.
nice kleen, the n2kts is beasty huh? im getting up to like 4 scoops pre w/o so i think ima take about a week away from it tolerance is building up quickly, think this could be a good angle to go from to conserve the rest of my jug?
 
MrKleen73

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Unfortunate change of direction.

I am going to have to re-evaluate my plans here since Recomping is out of the question right now. I spoke with DAdams and we thought it would be best for right now to cease taking the ERASE. It is a strong Anti-cortisol and I need cortisol to help healing. If I need a surgery I should not take anything that lowers cortisol. I also need the cortisol to help the healing process even if I don't need a surgery so I will begin the ERASE at another time. Probably in a PCT or something.

I will drop some of the carbs from this diet I am running and turn the rest of this run into a cut. I plan to workout out until the doctor says stop, and if I have to get surgery I ain't stopping until the day of surgery. He is gonna be in there repairng it anyway... LOL I will focus on legs and cutting for now.
 
thebigt

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I am going to have to re-evaluate my plans here since Recomping is out of the question right now. I spoke with DAdams and we thought it would be best for right now to cease taking the ERASE. It is a strong Anti-cortisol and I need cortisol to help healing. If I need a surgery I should not take anything that lowers cortisol. I also need the cortisol to help the healing process even if I don't need a surgery so I will begin the ERASE at another time. Probably in a PCT or something.

I will drop some of the carbs from this diet I am running and turn the rest of this run into a cut. I plan to workout out until the doctor says stop, and if I have to get surgery I ain't stopping until the day of surgery. He is gonna be in there repairng it anyway... LOL I will focus on legs and cutting for now.
good luck-i hope things go well for you!!!
 
Rahl

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nice kleen, the n2kts is beasty huh? im getting up to like 4 scoops pre w/o so i think ima take about a week away from it tolerance is building up quickly, think this could be a good angle to go from to conserve the rest of my jug?
I've always noticed that it takes about a week to lose the tolerance to a pre. I just quit for one week and then flip it back on the next week and I'm good to go.
 
MrKleen73

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I've always noticed that it takes about a week to lose the tolerance to a pre. I just quit for one week and then flip it back on the next week and I'm good to go.
Yeah but if he is up to 4 scoops of N2KTS he probably needs to stop and take some Reset AD it will bring your tolerance to all stims back down. At 2 scoops with the high rep squats I almost puked because I got a little too stimmed and gassed at the same time.
 
JudoJosh

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I am going to have to re-evaluate my plans here since Recomping is out of the question right now. I spoke with DAdams and we thought it would be best for right now to cease taking the ERASE. It is a strong Anti-cortisol and I need cortisol to help healing. If I need a surgery I should not take anything that lowers cortisol. I also need the cortisol to help the healing process even if I don't need a surgery so I will begin the ERASE at another time. Probably in a PCT or something.

I will drop some of the carbs from this diet I am running and turn the rest of this run into a cut. I plan to workout out until the doctor says stop, and if I have to get surgery I ain't stopping until the day of surgery. He is gonna be in there repairng it anyway... LOL I will focus on legs and cutting for now.
Sucks but sounds like the smart move to make.


Yeah but if he is up to 4 scoops of N2KTS he probably needs to stop and take some Reset AD it will bring your tolerance to all stims back down. At 2 scoops with the high rep squats I almost puked because I got a little too stimmed and gassed at the same time.
I have heard that taking benedryl helps to clear the receptors too. Not too sure on how legit the info was, it was a post on a board and I never really looked into it. Have you heard anything similar before?
 
10bathroomsO

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yeah i def need to do something, today i dosed exactly 4 1/2 scoops just to get the tingle and it only lasted maybe 15 minutes or so
 
Rahl

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Yeah but if he is up to 4 scoops of N2KTS he probably needs to stop and take some Reset AD it will bring your tolerance to all stims back down. At 2 scoops with the high rep squats I almost puked because I got a little too stimmed and gassed at the same time.
Good point. I can't say I've ever gotten up to 4 scoops. 3 for a while. I quit taking pre's altogether for a while.
 
GoHardOrGoHme

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speaking of reset ad....nutra has been out for awhile now...
 
MrKleen73

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I may turn this into a full on cut. I am very frustrated with my shoulder situation; I worked out this morning and went really light on my pulls and my shoulder is still quite aggravated. I can feel it catching on the bad section of cartilage inside the joint. I am going to bite the bullet and try to schedule an MRI with my ortho. After 4-5 months of working around the injury and even taking a few weeks off recently it still hurting seems very likely that another surgery will be required. I am already assuming I will need a S.L.A.P surgery to repair the Labrum. Oh well the sooner I can get it done the sooner I can start working towards preparing for another show which is what I REALLY want to do. I find it very hard to motivate myself when I can not lift with intensity. It just makes me frustrated.

Here is my program from yesterday.

Assisted Chins - 100 off x 15, 80 off x13, 100 off x 12, the stack is "perma-pinned" at 40 lbs to counter balance the assistance lever so I think it may be 60 off and 40 off body weight but not sure. First set was no issue at all. I decided to go up 20 lbs. About the 8th rep I started feeling the shoulder but not too bad. Around the 12th rep it had intensified a bit with each rep and I was getting a little worried. I got one more rep but just didn't feel safe after that. Felt I was pushing my luck. Last set went back down and just went until it felt like an unsafe level of discomfort.

Seated Rows - I kept this very light too. 100x15, 120x15, 120x15, I didn't really feel as much discomfort doing these but I was using a very low weight due to feeling so uncomfortable on the chins. When I got done I noticed my shoulder having a slight throb inside the joint. Not too bad nothing alarming but something to take note of.

DB Curls - 25x15, 30x15, 30x14 Finally a little more intensity!!! I had a nice burn going on in my biceps when this was over. At least there was one thing I could do with out worrying about my shoulder today… I am pretty strict on my curls, elbows tucked in to side no movement of the upper arm or leaning back to get a rep so the biceps pump was pretty awesome.

Dead lifts - 185x15, 225x15, 245x15 - Awesome another lift that the shoulder didn't hamper. If I do need surgery I will continue to dead lift right up until the day of because it doesn't seem to cause any pain at all. Next time I am going to start with 245 then go to 265x15. I already know I can hit 315 for 20 on these when healthy and doing them at the end of a workout with triples so I think I should be able to squeeze out a few sets of 15 at maybe 275 with out too much issue just depends on how quick the conditioning comes in.

Okay I wrote this yesterday but I have an appointment with my ortho Monday afternoon and will schedule an MRI hopefully for the same or following day.


First off Good work out. Just the right balance of intensity and caution.

Second...it may not be a bad idea to start a cut until your shoulder is healed up. Maybe not a contest prep cut but one with lighter more rehab like workouts and more cardio with an excellent diet. It will allow your shoulder to heal up PLUS you can hone in your phsyique so once yoru shoulder is good to go, you can run a couple of stacks to gain any muscle you may have lossed and then add muscle to your frame WHILE maintained a low BF getting you ready to tear up the stage.
 
MrKleen73

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First off Good work out. Just the right balance of intensity and caution.

Second...it may not be a bad idea to start a cut until your shoulder is healed up. Maybe not a contest prep cut but one with lighter more rehab like workouts and more cardio with an excellent diet. It will allow your shoulder to heal up PLUS you can hone in your phsyique so once yoru shoulder is good to go, you can run a couple of stacks to gain any muscle you may have lossed and then add muscle to your frame WHILE maintained a low BF getting you ready to tear up the stage.
That is the plan beginning this week. I am going to go off what the ortho tells me regarding training upper body. He is one of the best in Houston and specializes in sports injuries. He is very point blank, so I know he tell me like it is. If he tells me not to work upper body until we get the results of mri then that is what will happen. If not I am going to continue to feel out my limitations carefully. I know I am not going to do the Bent over Barbell or db rows. Maybe a high row but not anything pulling up from a hand position below my shoulders. That is where it gets hit. So I can avoid it pretty well. But I want to get it fixed and not sit here and create further imbalances.
 
MrKleen73

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12-4-10 Push work 5 reps - 201 lbs

I had a great workout today. My shoulder was feeling strong and the push movements just really don’t seem to bother it. I kind of stuck with weights I used last week on a lot of things. Weight is dropping relatively quickly right now due to glycogen and water loss. Strength is surprisinglly stable.

Since it was a low rep workout I took 2 scoops of N2KTS and was all kinds of ready to go.

BB Flat Bench 135x5, 185x5, 225x5, 245x5, 265x5
Standing Shoulder press to chin level - 115x5, 135x5, 165x5, 185x1>165x5 I think if I had gone to 175 I would have hit all 5 but 185 was more than I was ready for.
Close Grip Bench 185x5, 225x5 for 3 sets
Squats 135x5, 225x5, 265x5, 315x5, 365x4, 315x5 These were nice. Although I had to stop them just under parallel and not ATG or I would hit the supports on the squat rack. I don’t think it is safe to take several steps back with work weight on your shoulders so I didn’t walk out of the rack. My wife is shorter than me so I let her use the power cage so she could get a full range of motion. Twice I went too deep out of habit and bounced the bar off of the support. Next time my wife and I will just strip weight in between our sets so I can go ATG like I prefer.
 
MrKleen73

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That's a solid workout my man. Like the 5 rep scheme.
Thanks, was a little lighter than last weeks in some areas and heavier on squats. I am barely even sore and mentally I am ready to go to the gym today. However it is a day of rest and I am going to capitalize in that. My shoulder held up well to the push exercises. I think it is mainly avoiding the rows starting below shoulder level and I can hit some weight. However I need to be able to do those for that thick lower lat development.

I have dropped down to 200 as of yesterday morning (before I started carb loading) from eating less carbs. This morning I weighed in at 205.5 with some glycogen in me. I will stabilize from lower carbs soon then it is only a matter of pounds before I am a little more satisfied with the physique. Of course with mini carb ups being twice a week my weight will fluctuate alot but with a downward trend. I just finished a smaller carb up from yesterday after my workout until I went to bed I got in about 400 grams of carbs. I had about 100 grams of carbs this morning and am back on the low carb train as of right now.
 
MrKleen73

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No Ortho today....

I had to reschedule my visit with the ortho due to the fact that several people were out of the office today. I will be going in Thursday afternoon. The cold weather today put a little bite in the shoulder today. If I rotate my arm like twist it I can feel the ball of my humerus running across the spot. The bad spot is perfectly between the rear two scars from my last surgery.

I am so far over this annoyance that I am ready for them to slice and dice me just to get back to some friggin intensity. I have a crazy fear I am gonna be told to take 6 weeks off then at the end of that get told I still need surgery. That is the song and dance I went through last time and I had lost quite a bit of muscle way before I ever had my surgery. You might think I am crazy but my thought is if I can get this done now/very soon, I can be lifting by the end of February and rebuild anything I lose in time to do 1 show next year.

Oh yeah here is a reminder if you want to win $50 gift certificate for the Needtobuildmuscle.com store go to this link and enter in as many recipes as you like. http://needtobuildmuscle.net/forum/f4/best-recipe-contest-50-ntbm-store-8522.html
 
MrKleen73

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Okay I need to update here. I have continued on my cut, feel like I am losing a little. I have actually been able to run 2.5 miles outside both yesterday and today. Unfortunately even running is starting to cause pain in my shoulder. Hell standing still is starting to cause pain...

I have gotten to the point that random movements will trigger the pain now and I find myself blurting out a curse word or two in exclamation. I have an appointment tomorrow and tomorrow is also a lift day. I am only going to lift lower body tomorrow so I am not exactly sure what I will do.

I am trying to come up with an interim program I can use. I need one that I can do with leg machines only. That and they have to be exercises I will be able to do without having to hold myself into the seat. So a regular leg press is out but I can do one that sits more upright and has a weight stack. Granted the weight will be limited on them but that is okay. I will probably elect to do something like a GVT type of workout that doesn't require heavy weights. Maybe do something like High and Wide Leg Press and Leg Ext on say Monday and then on Thursday or Friday do Low and Narrow stance leg press and leg curls on the seated leg curl machine. That or use the single joint movements for pre-exhaust sets then go into the leg presses. If I do that I will more than likely also do some leg adductors and leg abductors on leg day as well to try to get a more complete workout since I can't squat.
 
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Damn my man. Does not sound like fun at all. Lets get some news that actually sounds good, like repairing that fugger! GL 2morrow.
 

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Yeah, definitely good luck, Kleen!
 
MrKleen73

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Thanks guys, has been rough keeping any motivation with this. I had an off day or two of just going through the motions. Trying not to fall into complacency. I am hoping that things are not as bad as they feel but then again... I am basically in the same boat I was in before my last surgery. I find myself trying to keep my right arm at a dead hang. Even then sometimes it tweaks and even when the pain isn't excruciating on a pain scale it is such a deep type pain it turns my guts every once in a while. Then it won't hurt at all until another random movement pushes the bone into the bad spot. What a pain in the ass. Normally there is something you can do to work around the issue but not so right now.
 
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I hate it when I lose my momentum. Dont let it happen, for me it is alweays so hard to get back. All the luck friend I hope everything goes good at your apt tomorrow
 

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