It Is Here- AN's Write-Up for 2009's Biggest Product!!!!!!

[TexasLifter89]

agreed! I am a stir fry freak haha.

 

[rms80]

good way to put it.

its up to people to decide whether they want to take it.

But i think anabolicminds set a standard in telling anyone whos under 21,they cant take compounds of this nature.

i see the 2 main reasoning, usually people in this age group dont have enought lifting experience,just want a quick boost, and are not mentally ready to do a cycle correctly.

also if you havent finished puberty,which is even more important. because you can stop height growth and mess up your hpta among other things.

Some people are still in puberty from 18-21, but correct me if im wrong doesnt it usually begin at 12-13 and end at 15-18?



ALSO

what is this compund classifed, im getting confused. i hear some people saying ph, ps...Its a pro-steriod, not a prohormone,No?
Is it already active, or does it convert?

everyone is different, but most people are done actively growing (at least height-wise) by the time they are 19 or 20.

as for classification, it just depends on who you ask- testosterone is the prohormone of dht in some cases, and vice-versa LOL- there are so many different interactions metabolically-speaking, it could be considered a ps or a ph- for sake of preventing confusion- it is a ph

 

[TexasLifter89]

I just simply call it dope/ dank ****!

 

[Chub]

I just simply call it dope/ dank ****!

Will you be trying it out Texas?

 

[ari4216]

So now that AN can make stuff like the one in the lab(are you guys making this in your new GMP facility, or are you outsourcing this)

Do you think youll be making similar products.

The market really could use something that has effects comparable to Winny. Esp Non-Methyl winny related compound.

 

[TexasLifter89]

Will you be trying it out Texas?

ahh we will see. Blood work is almost up for me in the next few months so it may be possible.

 

[rms80]

So now that AN can make stuff like the one in the lab(are you guys making this in your new GMP facility, or are you outsourcing this)

Do you think youll be making similar products.

The market really could use something that has effects comparable to Winny. Esp Non-Methyl winny related compound.

Winny is a tough one to duplicate- they tried w/ prostanozolol- it is exactly the same (same pyrazole attachment on the A ring, along with DHT skeleton)- except prostan. is not 17aa and has to be absorbed through the lymphatic system- they added an ether to make it more oil soluble/absorbable- but did not add an oily vehicle for carrying the product (should have at least put it in oil/softgel)....lot of different things you can mess with....

 

[nosnmiveins]

Winny is a tough one to duplicate- they tried w/ prostanozolol- it is exactly the same (same pyrazole attachment on the A ring, along with DHT skeleton)- except prostan. is not 17aa and has to be absorbed through the lymphatic system- they added an ether to make it more oil soluble/absorbable- but did not add an oily vehicle for carrying the product (should have at least put it in oil/softgel)....lot of different things you can mess with....

then do it damnit!! :nutkick:

 

[Random181]

rms80: you comment this product is a dream for pulsing orals, do you have any idea of its active life in the body? would I be correct in assuming from your comment that it is less than 6-8 hours? as this would indeed make it a bloody good product for pulsing, just like epi but stronger ;D

 

[rms80]

rms80: you comment this product is a dream for pulsing orals, do you have any idea of its active life in the body? would I be correct in assuming from your comment that it is less than 6-8 hours? as this would indeed make it a bloody good product for pulsing, just like epi but stronger ;D Also could you elaborate on what your testers are using for PCT? Im guessing a SERM

going to be a little longer than your average oral (most are 4-6 hours, with the exception of maybe oxandrolone)

I would give this one about a 8-9 hour half-life, but I have nothing to quantify this with- I have some good theories as to why the half-life is longer, and I have also pieced together user reports as well- all state that the effects from this compound are immediate, but it needs to be taken in the morning, b/c it has a "feel" to it (most likely from CNS stimulation).

Most of our testers are using Drive/IGF-2/6-Bromo for PCT- w/ great retention of gains.....

 

[TexasLifter89]

rms80: you comment this product is a dream for pulsing orals, do you have any idea of its active life in the body? would I be correct in assuming from your comment that it is less than 6-8 hours? as this would indeed make it a bloody good product for pulsing, just like epi but stronger ;D

he said it was a long half life which sounds pretty efficient!

 

[rms80]

then do it damnit!! :nutkick:

LOL

 

[Random181]

Awesome! Also I apologize for asking the question on PCT, I edited it out shortly after posting after realising I should have just re read the first few posts does look ace for a pulse though!

 

[WilteredFire]

Will be interesting to see what level of shutdown people experience on a typical 4 week cycle on this.

Would be good if serm-free pct's are possible with this compound SAFELY while using a good AI as suggested like 6-bromo in sensible small dosages combined with a solid natty test booster would be good.

What kind of strength gains can you expect on this compared to SD? just roughly?

Thanks guys, nice work on this compound, being a dht derivative seems a lil worrying because of the hairline, but time and testing will tell for sure i guess?

Wish u all the best AN (im currently on neovar v2)

 

[donorrell]

totally off topic, but on that note...

any green vegetable...

put it in a skillet, coat pan with EVOO, dump soy sauce over all the veggies, sprinkle garlic powder on.. brown to your liking. It's THE shizzle fo' rizzle.

I just wish I could afford my favorite sushi place every night. My favorite food and still on the diet.

 

[TexasLifter89]

I just wish I could afford my favorite sushi place every night. My favorite food and still on the diet.

sushi is good stuff. The lady and I hit it up weekly... but too much and I live on the toilet for the day after. :dump:

 

[rms80]

Will be interesting to see what level of shutdown people experience on a typical 4 week cycle on this.

Would be good if serm-free pct's are possible with this compound SAFELY while using a good AI as suggested like 6-bromo in sensible small dosages combined with a solid natty test booster would be good.

What kind of strength gains can you expect on this compared to SD? just roughly?

Thanks guys, nice work on this compound, being a dht derivative seems a lil worrying because of the hairline, but time and testing will tell for sure i guess?

Wish u all the best AN (im currently on neovar v2)

not sure in terms of strength gains in relation to SD- strength gains were really good for most of the testers- plus strength endurance also increased significantly- and coordination increases drastically while on this product as well- which will rapidly translate into strength....

as for hairloss- probably no worse than some of the others- none of the testers reported any issues....

 

[Steveoph]

I just wish I could afford my favorite sushi place every night. My favorite food and still on the diet.

You should learn how to cook your own sushi Don, saves a bunch of cash and no worries about food poisoning :thumbsup:

 

[ffmedic32]

I am just about to start a cycle Havoc and logging it here. Now this ONE looks promising for a summer cycle, if it works as good as it sounds!

 

[MentalTwitch]

cool RMS.

It sounds interesting. I will prolly give it a shot eventually with the iForce one.

Not a rep or anything but how do you think it will compare? If youre not familiar with it i can try to find a link for you.

 

[MentalTwitch]

I am just about to start a cycle Havoc and logging it here. Now this ONE looks promising for a summer cycle, if it works as good as it sounds!

guessin its what they were shootin for. Good call though on timing and im kind of happy to see them join the hormonal lines.

If you dont evolve you will be left behind...

 

[rms80]

cool RMS.

It sounds interesting. I will prolly give it a shot eventually with the iForce one.

Not a rep or anything but how do you think it will compare? If youre not familiar with it i can try to find a link for you.

The One is VERY different from Dymethazine- for one, it is does not contain a methyl at carbon two, and it has an oxime on carbon two- this alone yields very different effects......

dymethazine is very similar SD- just has an azine bridge between two methyldrostanolone molecules

should yield good lbm gains, just like SD
should not aromatize, just like SD
should give good strength gains, just like SD
should....well, you get the message:lol:

 

[ari4216]

Seeing as this stimulates the CNS

is high blood pressure the side effect to look after for?

Did the testers moniter their blood pressure?

 

[nunes]

The One is VERY different from Dymethazine- for one, it is does not contain a methyl at carbon two, and it has an oxime on carbon two- this alone yields very different effects......

dymethazine is very similar SD- just has an azine bridge between two methyldrostanolone molecules

should yield good lbm gains, just like SD
should not aromatize, just like SD
should give good strength gains, just like SD
should....well, you get the message:lol:

seeing the graph of the lean mass gained on 2 weeks , I really didn't expect that epistane was so week when compared with the others, especially when we look at epi anabolic : androgenic ratio, I don't have the numbers here but I thought that the anabolic number was above 1000, rms do you want to comment this fact?
regarding the characteristics of this steroid , is it a good one to stack with a aromatizable compound like test or d-bol to control estrogen ?

 

[Imeniaan]

seeing the graph of the lean mass gained on 2 weeks , I really didn't expect that epistane was so week when compared with the others, especially when we look at epi anabolic : androgenic ratio, I don't have the numbers here but I thought that the anabolic number was above 1000, rms do you want to comment this fact?
regarding the characteristics of this steroid , is it a good one to stack with a aromatizable compound like test or d-bol to control estrogen ?

is it a good one to stack with a aromatizable compound like test or d-bol to control estrogen ?

I like this question.

 

[Orangepeel]

probably not- quite a bit more potent than epi- has dry gains just like epi tho.....just more of them

So lets say I put on 20LB's and leaned out in 5 Weeks with Havoc, 10-20/20/30/30/40 (hypothetically of course ) - And The One is more potent is terms of gains, I could top that with this!?!?!?

And from this post:

as far as half-life- seems to be extended longer than most orals b/c of the lack of binding to shbg and the potential "protection" of the molecule by the oxime....

shutdown was minimal from what testers stated- it does not aromatize to estrogen or progesterone and can even act as an aromatase inhibitor, taking away 3 factors that could potentially shut you down

as for the hairline, none of the testers noticed any shedding...

It almost sounds as if it may result in the same possible gyno reduction that some claim Haovc/Epi to have?

 

[TexasLifter89]

I would venture to say those are good inferences and assumptions. Lets wait for Dirk to verify though...

 

[Orangepeel]

seeing the graph of the lean mass gained on 2 weeks , I really didn't expect that epistane was so week when compared with the others, especially when we look at epi anabolic : androgenic ratio, I don't have the numbers here but I thought that the anabolic number was above 1000, rms do you want to comment this fact?
regarding the characteristics of this steroid , is it a good one to stack with a aromatizable compound like test or d-bol to control estrogen ?

I beleive that graph shows epi as being so week because its limited to the gains you'll receive within 2 weeks - epi is just starting to work its magic at the 2-3 week mark

 

[nunes]

I beleive that graph shows epi as being so week because its limited to the gains you'll receive within 2 weeks - epi is just starting to work its magic at the 2-3 week mark

yeah but for me that don't like to push orals more than 3 weeks this is a a very noticeable characteristic, I would like to hear rms about this...

 

[Orangepeel]

yeah but for me that don't like to push orals more than 3 weeks this is a a very noticeable characteristic, I would like to hear rms about this...

If your a fan of 3 weeks cycle's epi certainly wouldn't be the right choice, you would be cutting it off right as the compound begins to work, but as "weak" as it is, many run it for 6 weeks, I myself like 5 weeks of epi, and have never had any undesirable sides from a 5 week run - either way epi is in no way as weak in terms of gains as that graph shows assuming you run a full cycle of it, if it was it wouldn't have become one of the the most popular PS's over the last 2-3 years! - but enought about epi - I too am very interested in AN's newest product!

 

[Enigma76]

you came to the right place- I dumped the rest of my schedule for the day to answer questions- I knew everyone would have a bunch

yes- they are decent liver damage indicators- but high levels of AST/ALT can come from a lot of different sources (you mentioned muscle damage)- and yes- 8 tylenol a day will send both over 200, just like a fifth of jack probably would

As far as lipid imbalances- smart man- happens to a certain extent with any oral- but I can tell you one thing- the alterations are temporary, and a higher fiber diet, lots of fruits and vegetables, a GOOD anti-oxidant formula, plus fish oil drastically reduces or eliminates any issues concerning this.

point is- they are pretty easy to throw out of whack- and you are correct- it is a duration-of-use issue- this compound is a DREAM for pulsing orals

testers are in their PCT (except for 2 who are still on it)- they have kept roughly 75% of their gains, on average


I am a harm-reduction advocate- hence the reason for all the recommendations concerning the compound. I understand people are going to make certain choices concerning supplementation, nutrition, PHs, etc.- and people are going to do what they are going to do, period. My job is to help them do it in the safest possible manner, not to judge them for doing it :lol:

The testers are all doing the PCTs you outlined yes? Using 6-bromo, and none are using SERMS?

I particularly like your last comment. Props to you.

Couple other questions that intrigued me. Since I'm trying to lean out, which for me is quite the process since school isn't so forgiving to diet or exercise, dieting and in particular carb cycling have been on my mind.

I'm curious if anyone has pulsed orals with particularly good glycogen storing properties when doing carb refeeds? Especially since you already know this compound has GLUT4 effects, would using a couple during your refeed/cheat days have a good effect? I'm fairly knowledgeable yet inexperienced about the old PHs (1-AD days) and the newer designers, but I lack knowledge about pulsing strategies and theories.

Or if this would even be desired? If one were cutting, and trying to carb cycle, what would be the best way to implement this? Cycle it like normal and alter training/diet to cut? Or pulse it on cheat/refeed days?

This post might bely some of my own ignorance about pulsing orals, and if it leads the conversation down the wrong path then by all means don't answer it here.

 

[maurice02]

This is very intriguing and I will be keeping an eye on it. I am running a cycle of Havoc starting next week but for future use would consider this......

 

[EasyEJL]

Seeing as this stimulates the CNS

is high blood pressure the side effect to look after for?

Did the testers moniter their blood pressure?

i monitored daily, have a machine at home. My normal is around 125/75, the absolute peak I measured on cycle about 2 hours after a workout was 134/82, most of the time was close enough to normal that I couldn't see a difference at all

 

[TTewell]

WOW... AN is coming out with a PH?? :thumbsup: Awesome. I'm gonna have to try it some time.

 

[Rosie Chee]

Yeah, I been reading bout them on google all morning, but it is all negative, they only seem to wanna talk bout what happens from an substance abuse stand point. And the negative effects. I will keep looking.
Im sitting around 100-102 kg anyway, im not looking for a whole lot more. I think one 5 week cycle would do me nicely( chest? hello can I get a chest over here please?) i would abstain from alcohol during that time as well.
Still, my Kiwi friend, all just musings really. At end of day if I buy and it gets seized its all irrelevant. I will try anyway though.....nothing ventured, nothing gained!:head:
bring it customs! on Guard:duel:

Yes, well, it gets a lot of negative attention because of abuse and then the consequences of that. If done thoroughly and knowledgeably and to minimize risk, etc., then cycles of such substances can be done 'safely' (as mentioned).

Depends on your goals, really. IMO, if you haven't maximized your gains as best you can naturally, then considering the hormonal route is not an option (but that's just me).

WOW... AN is coming out with a PH?? :thumbsup: Awesome. I'm gonna have to try it some time.

Yes. But it still stands within our ethics and standards and mission as a company.

 

[SamBoz19]

guessin its what they were shootin for. Good call though on timing and im kind of happy to see them join the hormonal lines.

If you dont evolve you will be left behind...

I agree in a sense. Honestly, I don't have any qualms with having a hormonal product in our lineup. It just makes us more versatility and gives us something to offer to a different demographic of customers (a large demographic at that).

Cheers!:cheers:

 

[DR.D]

This compound looks chemically unstable! It may be prone to rapid oxidation. You better send me about 5-10 bottles to test for you guys.

 

[TommyTuffGuy]

I asked this over on bb.com but didn't get a response. How would this be for a n00b with PH's and these kind of compounds? I'm very familiar from the boards about proper PCT and on cycle supplementation and diet, but have only truly experimented with 11-OXO. Thanks.

 

[conan1071]

I just wish I could afford my favorite sushi place every night. My favorite food and still on the diet.

Don, be careful on the sushi. Actor Jeremy Piven was hospitalized for high mercury from eating too much sushi.

izza::trout::hot::donut::burg:

 

[Bionic]

Don, be careful on the sushi. Actor Jeremy Piven was hospitalized for high mercury from eating too much sushi.

izza::trout::hot::donut::burg:

That was a lie to get him out of a play he was bored with.

 

[steveironman]

Im very intriged by this. A dht prohrmone with an anabolic and androgenic rating higher than anadrol??
With a true dht pathway like winny, primo and anavar??
I dunno guys....very curious to see what kind of results here also curious as to how hard shutdown will actually occur and type of pct needed...at any rate very interesting. As usual im skeptical....but intrigued....

 

[Craigmatthew]

Interesting, look forward to logs and more information. Excellent read and good question-answering as always Dirk
Welcome AN to the PH market

 

[EasyEJL]

I asked this over on bb.com but didn't get a response. How would this be for a n00b with PH's and these kind of compounds? I'm very familiar from the boards about proper PCT and on cycle supplementation and diet, but have only truly experimented with 11-OXO. Thanks.

from the perspective of sides, pct, support supps not required etc this is a great choice. i'd still suggest it for experienced lifters though, as the strength + mass gains are pretty extreme and a waste for someone still making early gains. Plus like anything in general, unless you have decent control of your diet and caloric intake your gains are more limited by that than the product you are using. Then again both of those are true of any hormonal products really

 

[rms80]

Seeing as this stimulates the CNS

is high blood pressure the side effect to look after for?

Did the testers moniter their blood pressure?

They did- bp remained normal in all testers- we were very pleased with this

 

[donorrell]

from the perspective of sides, pct, support supps not required etc this is a great choice. i'd still suggest it for experienced lifters though, as the strength + mass gains are pretty extreme and a waste for someone still making early gains. Plus like anything in general, unless you have decent control of your diet and caloric intake your gains are more limited by that than the product you are using. Then again both of those are true of any hormonal products really

My sentiments exactly. This is for experienced LIFTERS meaning you've been at it consistantly for a few years and hit a plateau. This will bust you through it and then some.

 

[camaleon]

They did- bp remained normal in all testers- we were very pleased with this

big + right there!

 

[rms80]

seeing the graph of the lean mass gained on 2 weeks , I really didn't expect that epistane was so week when compared with the others, especially when we look at epi anabolic : androgenic ratio, I don't have the numbers here but I thought that the anabolic number was above 1000, rms do you want to comment this fact?
regarding the characteristics of this steroid , is it a good one to stack with a aromatizable compound like test or d-bol to control estrogen ?

anabolic to androgenic ratios don't always correlate perfectly to relative potency- and there are other factors that play into how effective a given compound is- in that it can have non-AR mediated effects that are independent of AR binding, and delivery form is also important (and the difference between something being remarkably effective v. not effective at all)- the list of variables in this equation is seemingly endless......

Epistane is not weak by any stretch of the imagination- it is a great compound for quality lean muscle mass gains, with some pronounced estrogen-inhibiting properties. I think the effects of epi are also very dosage-dependant as well (as with most compounds)- I have heard of guys going to 50 mg a day and higher with some really great results (some guys gained 10-14 lbs. in 3-4 weeks)- but the basis of that figure in the data is lbm gains on normal (commercially recommended) doses, not higher outlying dosages.....

 

[rms80]

seeing the graph of the lean mass gained on 2 weeks , I really didn't expect that epistane was so week when compared with the others, especially when we look at epi anabolic : androgenic ratio, I don't have the numbers here but I thought that the anabolic number was above 1000, rms do you want to comment this fact?
regarding the characteristics of this steroid , is it a good one to stack with a aromatizable compound like test or d-bol to control estrogen ?

and to answer your second question- test, yes, dbol, no- two methyls at the same time is a no-no

but test plus The One- you would have a good Class I and II stack going on with some very good AR-mediated effects (increases in protein synthesis, increases in nitrogen retention), and also some great non-AR mediated effects (local IGF-1 secretion, shbg inhibition)- should work very well

 

[rms80]

So lets say I put on 20LB's and leaned out in 5 Weeks with Havoc, 10-20/20/30/30/40 (hypothetically of course ) - And The One is more potent is terms of gains, I could top that with this!?!?!?

And from this post:


It almost sounds as if it may result in the same possible gyno reduction that some claim Haovc/Epi to have?

dunno- like I said- epi is a very, very good compound- and you hit the higher end of the dosage-dependancy- 20 lbs. at 40-60 mg per day would not surprise me a bit- and also, like I said, the graphs are based on recommended commercial dosages

the the second question- yes- The One and epi are both DHT derivs (and they all have the gyno-reducing trait in common). so potential gyno reduction is a plus of using The One

 

[Vitruvian]

You guys see Dirks avatar?

Dog on right > DBol
Dog on left > The One






LOL