I'm on Phosphatidic acid Ya'll

[muscleupcrohn]

It is not 100% sure those caps had the right dose. Even if a product contain patented ingredient, it does not mean it has 100% the dose as writted on the label.

Lets say I make own PA product for sale . I buy PA from Cheminutra etc. Cheminutra will ever test my product.

I would hope that the researchers would have had it tested. If anything, that's even more reason to do another study with Mediator PA, not PA with a delivery system. I don't think one study is really a "nail in the coffin" for Mediator PA yet.

 

[Danes]

I would hope that the researchers would have had it tested. If anything, that's even more reason to do another study with Mediator PA, not PA with a delivery system. I don't think one study is really a "nail in the coffin" for Mediator PA yet.

Totaly agree

I asked a guy who is very and I mean VERY knowledgeable/my mentor and he said :

"It's a 3 days a week training schedule using something that upregulates mTOR for which results are not going to be all the acute in the first place. Useless other than pointing out that recreationally training people will not benefit from it."

 

[The_Old_Guy]

I would hope that the researchers would have had it tested. If anything, that's even more reason to do another study with Mediator PA, not PA with a delivery system. I don't think one study is really a "nail in the coffin" for Mediator PA yet.

Both you and Danes have points here: Just because a company pays the money to use the cool logo and the initial bulk purchase, doesn't mean they put the full dose in each cap, or any at all - *cough* Prime Nutrition *cough*. The rights holder will never HPLC a random product to check - they already got their money.

On the flip side, most legit studies either extract the compound themselves, or HPLC test what they are using - would be kind of a black eye to do a full study and find out you had a bunk product in the first place.

I think they did it right and this stuff doesn't do Jack, other than the secondary 'general health' benefits. Ain't lookin' too good for Wilson either, isn't this like the 3rd compound that didn't pan out in other studies, LOL.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Totaly agree

I asked a guy who is very and I mean VERY knowledgeable/my mentor and he said :

"It's a 3 days a week training schedule using something that upregulates mTOR for which results are not going to be all the acute in the first place. Useless other than pointing out that recreationally training people will not benefit from it."

Schoenfeld says twice is enough per muscle, in a 7 day period - 3 should be golden. I didn't read the training protocol for this yet, was it a "Bro Split" only hitting the target once per 7 days?

 

[Danes]

Both you and Danes have points here: Just because a company pays the money to use the cool logo and the initial bulk purchase, doesn't mean they put the full dose in each cap, or any at all - *cough* Prime Nutrition *cough*. The rights holder will never HPLC a random product to check - they already got their money.

Exactly!
As long as they get their money, they give a damn f... what companies do with it.

Btw, Email sent to Hoffman, Stout and Wilson

 

[Danes]

Schoenfeld says twice is enough per muscle, in a 7 day period - 3 should be golden. I didn't read the training protocol for this yet, was it a "Bro Split" only hitting the target once per 7 days?

Not sure

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Schoenfeld says twice is enough per muscle, in a 7 day period - 3 should be golden. I didn't read the training protocol for this yet, was it a "Bro Split" only hitting the target once per 7 days?

I have a chart earlier in this thread that provides details on the training protocols in the various PA studies. One of the studies doesn't really elaborate, but two of the previous studies hit chest and legs twice per week each, whether it was from 3 or 4 days in the gym. For this new study, chest was hit only one time per week (8 sets/week), with legs two times per week (16 sets/week).

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Both you and Danes have points here: Just because a company pays the money to use the cool logo and the initial bulk purchase, doesn't mean they put the full dose in each cap, or any at all - *cough* Prime Nutrition *cough*. The rights holder will never HPLC a random product to check - they already got their money.

On the flip side, most legit studies either extract the compound themselves, or HPLC test what they are using - would be kind of a black eye to do a full study and find out you had a bunk product in the first place.

I think they did it right and this stuff doesn't do Jack, other than the secondary 'general health' benefits. Ain't lookin' too good for Wilson either, isn't this like the 3rd compound that didn't pan out in other studies, LOL.

Which other one's didn't pan out from Wilson again? I know he did the big HMB-FA study, but doesn't other research suggest that HMB, in either form, actually does something, even if it's not astounding like it was in his study?

Peak ATP? I've also seen some studies on it showing it does something from other authors.

His results always seem to be incredible though.

 

[Nac]

I think they did it right and this stuff doesn't do Jack, other than the secondary 'general health' benefits. Ain't lookin' too good for Wilson either, isn't this like the 3rd compound that didn't pan out in other studies, LOL.

Muscletech has come away pretty much unscathed with regards to any non Wilson hmbfa studies.

Not sure if the same will be said for ChemiNutra and Wilson if something nefarious has gone down with them and PA. It has the potential to be huge, and in some respects I just cant fathom it....the implications lol *sigh*

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Btw, Email sent to Hoffman, Stout and Wilson

Any replies?

 

[Danes]

Any replies?

Not yet. I really dont expect anything lol

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Not yet. I really dont expect anything lol

What can they say really? We'll just have to wait for another study, preferably one that tests 750mg and 1500mg PA, and that has a bit more training volume/frequency than the last one. Until then, I'll stick to my Lecithin granules for $10/month, haha.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

What can they say really? We'll just have to wait for another study, preferably one that tests 750mg and 1500mg PA, and that has a bit more training volume/frequency than the last one. Until then, I'll stick to my Lecithin granules for $10/month, haha.

I'll be taking them too because good fat ? But the study had placebo control and they improved - there just wasn't a stat sig better improvement with the SL group. You think more training would have widened the gap? The lower body work was enough IMO - twice a week, 8 sets each, right?

 

[muscleupcrohn]

I'll be taking them too because good fat  But the study had placebo control and they improved - there just wasn't a stat sig better improvement with the SL group. You think more training would have widened the gap? The lower body work was enough IMO - twice a week, 8 sets each, right?

I only know that the other studies hit each muscle group 2x per week. Here's the training protocol used in the study:

I'd like to see chest worked twice a week, and squats/deadlifts (at least one of the two) also hit twice a week. Back is also a major muscle group, and the only direct back work (I'm not counting deadlifts here) was once per week with 4 sets of rows and 4 sets of pullovers. I'd like to see at least that volume 2x per week, preferably with a vertical (pullups/pulldown) motion incorporated as well.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

I only know that the other studies hit each muscle group 2x per week. Here's the training protocol used in the study:View attachment 144671
I'd like to see chest worked twice a week, and squats/deadlifts (at least one of the two) also hit twice a week. Back is also a major muscle group, and the only direct back work (I'm not counting deadlifts here) was once per week with 4 sets of rows and 4 sets of pullovers. I'd like to see at least that volume 2x per week, preferably with a vertical (pullups/pulldown) motion incorporated as well.

Quoting myself again. From the discussion of the study:

Other potential discrepancies include exercise supervision, resistance-training program design, dietary adherence, exercise selection for assessing maximal strength (e.g., leg press vs. back squat), timing of supplement ingestion, methods of assessing changes in muscle architecture and body composition (e.g., dual-energy X-ray absorptiometry vs. ultrasound), and training status of study participants

 

[kbayne]

Yeah, only downside to current study is amount of volume. Not to get into a scientific debate but we know muscle can be put on with low volume high intensity and high volume low intensity, but frequency plays a large role. So I'd like to see not more volume but more frequency.

Also, know where the PA came from would be nice and is quite baffling they didn't specify in the full text.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Yeah, only downside to current study is amount of volume. Not to get into a scientific debate but we know muscle can be put on with low volume high intensity and high volume low intensity, but frequency plays a large role. So I'd like to see not more volume but more frequency.

Also, know where the PA came from would be nice and is quite baffling they didn't specify in the full text.

There wasn't much volume or frequency here though, haha.

 

[kbayne]

There wasn't much volume or frequency here though, haha.

I agree but even if they added more frequency as you're stating, could have played a role in the outcome. Either way, more volume or frequency per week would be nice to see.

 

[Robert5891]

Am I missing something in this new study? It says groups received 250 or 375mg PA and found no effectiveness. That's not surprising given that 750mg is the min recommended dose to see benefit.

Not a nail in the coffin of PA unless I'm missing something?

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Am I missing something in this new study? It says groups received 250 or 375mg PA and found no effectiveness. That's not surprising given that 750mg is the min recommended dose to see benefit.

Not a nail in the coffin of PA unless I'm missing something?

That was a previous study. This one did use 750mg and didn't notice significant effects.

 

[Robert5891]

That was a previous study. This one did use 750mg and didn't notice significant effects.

Thanks...did you post the link to it and I just missed?

 

[Danes]

Thanks...did you post the link to it and I just missed?

http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/abs/10.1139/apnm-2016-0564#.WIun9xiZORs

 

[AdelV]

Any recommendations SL in Australia? I got no idea what type to buy, ended up with a bulk off off an E(auction website).

 

[scump]

not a fan of muscle thickness as an outcome measure, so many variables effect muscle thickness at the time of measurement..

There is so many more better outcome measures they could have used as opposed to muscle thickness, how much fat did they lose (PA vs PL) how much LBM was gained? ...these measures are used in a number of studies so would be much more appropriate for comparison.

I mean the not gaining strength part is a bit out too, but the fact all other PA studies suggested an increase in strength always baffled me, through its mechanisms i could see over time you would gain strength but didn't expect it to be as consistent as previous studies suggested.

 

[Justlooking5]

^ Perhaps strength gain comes from increased glycogen retention/muscle hydration many notice upon starting PA?

I personally feel I've gotten pretty significant results from PA (especially higher dose Fearns at 4-6 tbsp/day). I mean in winter 2015 I was taking that much and got up to 230 lbs. from around 205, decent amount of muscle but my waist also got really thick and I felt I added a solid amount of bodyfat.

It's such a familiar pattern. 3-5 studies come out hyping product...everyone sells it/buys it... then a study comes along saying it does nothing, suddenly the former darling supp is now a pariah supp (i.e., HMB, pyruvate, ZMA, DAA, on and on)... then 10 years later another few studies come out redeeming some of them.

 

[Justlooking5]

Is literally every other PA study sponsored by someone with a financial interest in the results?

 

[Danes]

Is literally every other PA study sponsored by someone with a financial interest in the results?

Results we see in all sponsored PA studies are pretty much "fixed" but I dont doubt in PA. One of few compounds that really worked for me.
Higher dose worked for me. The regular dose such as 750mg did nothing for me.

New PA (non sponsored) study show PA is waste if the training volume is to low.

 

[ucheoma]

Results we see in all sponsored PA studies are pretty much "fixed" but I dont doubt in PA. One of few compounds that really worked for me.
Higher dose worked for me. The regular dose such as 750mg did nothing for me.

New PA (non sponsored) study show PA is waste if the training volume is to low.

Are you hypothesising or is this a specific finding from the study?

 

[Danes]

Are you hypothesising or is this a specific finding from the study?

The new PA study is nothing than weak. Training volume (sets etc) is ridiculous low.

 

[Volvo140G]

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-deals/291156-deals-deals-nutriverse.html

B2G1 free OL Tr1umph at Nutriverse, stuffs become a staple....

 

[Justlooking5]

Frustrating study raises more questions than answers.

 

[bb333]

How about Pharmgrade?(MPA supps)
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1155/2266/files/pharmgrade_supp_facts_large.png?v=1482263161

 

[Danes]

How about Pharmgrade?(MPA supps)
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1155/2266/files/pharmgrade_supp_facts_large.png?v=1482263161

Not bad

 

[bb333]

Not bad

it's nice to load
price high! but it is worth a try! ciao Danes!

 

[Danes]

it's nice to load
price high! but it is worth a try! ciao Danes!

Ciao

 

[Nac]

Well, as much as it pains me (in one sense) to say this....

I dont give a fuk what the latest study says.

Ive dropped 1500mg Mediator the last three days, and the musclefullness in my pecs is absolutely undeniable to me.

It rivals the fullness I get running trestolone. True story.

 

[kdubson14]

Anecdotally, for me, PA is the cheapest and most noticeably effective supplement I've ever taken. Going on 3? years now.

 

[Islander73]

I totally agree with you on this. I'm still shocked after years of taking it is still effective.

 

[f4iguy]

I can confirm PA works. I've been lifting for 16 years and the only non hormonal supplement that compares for strength is creatine. This might be more effective than creatine for me. With less than 6 hours of sleep and calorie restrictions (new job and baby) combined with less frequent training I have added 2-3 reps to most lifts after 5 weeks of supplementing. Without the PA I would have maintained or possible lost strength from lack of sleep, calories, and frequency in the gym. It works for me. Period.

 

[Pec.Major]

Well, as much as it pains me (in one sense) to say this....

I dont give a fuk what the latest study says.

Ive dropped 1500mg Mediator the last three days, and the musclefullness in my pecs is absolutely undeniable to me.

It rivals the fullness I get running trestolone. True story.

Where do you get your Mediator from?

 

[Nac]

Where do you get your Mediator from?

A mtech product that was on sale due to expiration, like ten bucks a bottle. Was about 6mnths ago.

 

[804]

I ran 2 bottles of MPA Pharmgrade and really enjoyed it... Especially since I got it during the intro sale.

Is there any reasonably priced (reputable) PA supp out there?

 

[Pec.Major]

A mtech product that was on sale due to expiration, like ten bucks a bottle. Was about 6mnths ago.

Oh, that would have been a nice thing to jump on.

 

[macwad]

I ran 2 bottles of MPA Pharmgrade and really enjoyed it... Especially since I got it during the intro sale.

Is there any reasonably priced (reputable) PA supp out there?

OL Tr1umph is on sale directly on OL website. Look for the sale code at OL subforum. The thread title is something like Spring Cleaning Sale

 

[bb333]

How about Pharmgrade?(MPA supps)
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1155/2266/files/pharmgrade_supp_facts_large.png?v=1482263161

paul56778

 

[TheIronAsylum]

so were taking mediator now not phosphamuscle? which sup is the best one tot ake

 

[bb333]

I ran 2 bottles of MPA Pharmgrade and really enjoyed it... Especially since I got it during the intro sale.

Is there any reasonably priced (reputable) PA supp out there?

Any feedback? How was your diet? Bulk or cut? Thank you!

 

[bb333]

Then beautiful guys!
the party is over? I do not hear anymore! :

I loved the soy granules, 2 tablespoons a day, for about 3 months.
I was in a bulk period, high calories.
I remember good feedback, increased strength, muscular fullness.
I think this creatine "food" better! ^ _ ^

Now, the question is this! Are currently in low calorie diet, in cut, and abdominals start to look!
Knowing the benefits of soy granules, I would like to take this time ...
Imagine now that I have less fat mass, with the granules, the muscular fullness effect would be the top! In addition I would increase the strength, this does not break in this period of caloric deficit.

I would have 2 questions, in your opinion, could swell your belly, then hide, tear, the six pack?
Do you have feedback in this?
It would be good to increase muscle fullness now at this time!

Then, the muscle fullness effect is a side effect of the soy granules, or do the specific supplements do this either?
Type pharmgrade or similar.

 

[jameschoi]

I can confirm PA works. I've been lifting for 16 years and the only non hormonal supplement that compares for strength is creatine. This might be more effective than creatine for me. With less than 6 hours of sleep and calorie restrictions (new job and baby) combined with less frequent training I have added 2-3 reps to most lifts after 5 weeks of supplementing. Without the PA I would have maintained or possible lost strength from lack of sleep, calories, and frequency in the gym. It works for me. Period.

soy leth or what PA did you take

 

[f4iguy]

soy leth or what PA did you take

Fearns SL. I purchase it off amazon but you can find it cheaper. It lasts a couple months at 2 to 3 tbsp. per day. I don't like the bloat it gives me, but it doesn't last long. Maybe an couple hours but only on days where I don't train.

Get on that SL man! It's cheap and works. I'm always bulking though so the extra fat calories are of no concern. I'd be perfectly happy walking around at 18% bodyfat if I could hit a 500 bench press!